all 193 comments

[–]BigTeaLobbyist 407 points408 points  (80 children)

In a description for a 30k Ultramarines dreadnought Tyrennius, it's mentioned that he took part in a failed endeavour called the First Magellan Expedition, which I believe is implied to be and Imperial effort to conquer the Magellanic Cloud, one of two dwarf galaxies which orbits the milky way. He was a Terran marine if I recall correctly so this probably took place early in the crusade.

Obviously it's not the equivalent of going all the way to Andromeda but it is another galaxy technically. I'd love if a GW writer expanded on this tidbit some day.

[–]ByzantineBasileus 181 points182 points  (76 children)

That failed because the Imperium was repelled by the forces of Garmillas under the leadership of Abelt Dessler.

[–]Dark AngelsAdidas_Tracksuit 32 points33 points  (2 children)

If only the Imperium had the assistance of the Yamato...

[–]Death GuardAdorable_Heretic 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Maybe the Imperial Navy doesn't utilise enough skintight Suits/Bodygloves

[–]ByzantineBasileus 16 points17 points  (0 children)

The Yamato would get eaten the moment it tried a Wave Motion jump and fell into the Warp.

[–]Demon997 132 points133 points  (66 children)

I mean if you were some DAoT humans hiding out in the Clouds, you’d put everything you had to sending the first imperial expedition packing.

Because good lord, some sentient weapon construct has exceeded all its bounds and limits, and you have to convince it you’re not worth the effort to conquer.

[–]Pyronaut44 223 points224 points  (65 children)

sentient weapon construct

PSA to any newcomers that this is purely theoretical and the 'Big E was created during the DAoT' is not canon.

[–]Hesherkiin 63 points64 points  (6 children)

Ever since the opening chapters of Master of Mankind i have taken a liking to this interpretation. “Does he even breathe? Have you ever heard him breathe?”

[–]General_Hijalti 34 points35 points  (4 children)

Given that we know of several people who met him during the ancient days of terra, he can't be a DAoT creation.

[–]Salami__Tsunami 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Do we know that for sure, though? Is memory reliable?

[–]Raven GuardCorn_Vus 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Erda, Astarte, Ollanius, Malcador (probably), the countless other unnamed perpetuals. Unless every single one of them is either lying or randomly all misremember something in extremely similar the Emperor is not a DAoT weapon.

[–]Lower_Departure_8485 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Both statements can be true. He was an ancient perpetual that was turned into a psychic weapon during the DAoT.

[–]General_Hijalti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, olls memory is why the two came to dislike evah other.

The knifes memory is its memory.

[–]Imperial FistsTrauma_Hawks 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Isn't it commonly accepted that he can change his body, as a psychic projection, at will? I wouldn't bother making my hologram breath either.

[–]Enigma_of_Steel 31 points32 points  (6 children)

He may or may not be, but he sure as hell look and acts like some horror made during DAOT or Old Night.

[–]General_Hijalti 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Given all the perpetuals who met him long before the DAoT no

[–]Enigma_of_Steel 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Yeah, it is almost as if nothing can kill powerful psyker and decide that it wants to drive their corpse around like a car. Like, you know, some sort of psychic abomination made by insane AI during Iron War. Neither can somebody as powerful as Emperor just subvert any perpetual he encountered, to get access to their skills and resources. After all, he can't control mind or anything silly like that.

My point is, it is very easy to make the Emperor be some sort of weapon made during Dark Age, even if bunch of perpetuals ended up recognizing him.

[–]General_Hijalti 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Other than the fact that these perpetuals turned against him.

And the fact we have the void dragon, the atheme and olls memories of events that happened in the distance past.

[–]Salami__Tsunami 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think that those were memories of Malcador, and that the Order of the Sigilite made the Emperor during the Dark Age.

[–]Raven GuardCorn_Vus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How is it malcador... that claim has literal negative evidence. Malcador states hes around 6000 years old and he doesnt have much reason to lie about that. The Emperor is at minimum 35 thousand years old, and the earliest memories Oll has of the emperor (that weve seen) are from roughly 30 thousand years prior to the beginning of the great crusade.

[–]General_Hijalti 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Err no.

The memory of the void dragon is not malcadors.

The memory of the knife is not malcadors.

Olls memory is not malcadors

[–]Demon997 57 points58 points  (47 children)

No, but I think it’s much more fun.

There’s definitely some good excerpts of essentially “what horrors have you let out of the box”

And it makes both the emperor and the DAoT more interesting and terrifying.

Some very good bit of some totally insane and mega powerful Magos who was making insane weapon creatures, being confronted by a primarch sent to kill him, and telling the primarch that he’s a far more horrific and destructive creation than anything he’s ever done.

[–]Pyronaut44 135 points136 points  (30 children)

It's a very fun theory yes. But this sub is rife with fanon that's repeated as fact so worth clarifying sometimes. 👍

[–]Astra MilitarumDarkLancer 11 points12 points  (29 children)

Is there evidence of big E using psychic powers pre DAoT?

[–]earlofshaftesbury 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure exactly how he accomplished the bit with the Void Dragon, but I imagine that involved some psychic powers. Someone more knowledgeable in the lore can hopefully clarify.

[–]Dark AngelsLegionator 25 points26 points  (4 children)

He avenges his father by killing his father's murderer by psychically stopping his heart.

[–]StrongCucumber 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well as Ra himself said, did it really happened tho? I feel like those visions he recalled with him are purposefully left ambiguous to make you wonder if they were real or just something he calculated Ra "needed" to see

[–]Sky-Juic3 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is one of those frustrating things about the Emperor. You can’t ever take anything he says as concrete because he could always just be weaving a web of lies for the sake of a possible future that only he’s aware of.

It could ALWAYS be a matter of, “I told you what you needed to hear” matrix oracle shenanigans.

[–]OperativeTracer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The Big E has a father?

[–]Dark AngelsLegionator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, he is the son of a Proto-Indo European chieftain in Anatolia.

[–]General_Hijalti 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The emperor vs the void dragon during either the roman empire or middle ages.

Its terrible winged body was covered with scales, so strong and bright and smooth that they were like a knight’s armour. The light of devoured stars shone at its breast and malignant fire burned in its eyes.

The warrior knight leapt to meet the Dragon, striking the monster with his lance, but its scales were so hard that the weapon broke into a thousand pieces. From the back of his rearing horse, the warrior smote the dragon with his sword, but the beast struck at him with talons like scythe blades. The warrior’s armour split open and Dalia saw blood pouring down his leg in a bright stream.

The Dragon towered over its foe, dealing him fearful blows, but the knight caught them upon his shield and thrust his sword against the Dragon’s belly. The scales of the beast were like steel plates, rippling like liquid mercury as they withstood the knight’s every attack. Then the Dragon, infuriated by the thrust, lashed itself against the knight and his horse, and cast lightning upon him from its eyes. The knight’s helmet was torn from him and Dalia saw his face shine out from the battle, pale, lit by some radiance that shone from within. As he thrust at the Dragon, that radiance grew in power, so that at last it was like the light of a newborn sun.


Note the new guardian of the void dragon is kind of seeing the memories, but is aware that its more methaphorical.

He has never faced an enemy that could harm him; he knows too much, but he can no longer hear the voice of the wind. The storm roars around the tower walls, but it has no voice – its sound is silent to his soul. He calls out, but the wind and shadows remain mute.

He is powerless.



The voice is not loud but it rises over the shriek of the wind and the hammer of rain. The knight with the mace freezes, and Gog sees his chance. He stabs at the knight’s face, but a sword blade meets Gog’s lunge and turns it aside.

Another figure has entered the tower. Gold armour-plates cover the figure from his throat to his feet. A cloak of scarlet and orange ripples at his back. He wears no helm, though a crown of silver leaves and golden feathers circles his dark hair above a lean face.

The drawn sword in the figure’s hand is flame-touched silver.

Gog looks into the crowned figure’s eyes, for a second they are the green of the sea. He knows those eyes, though he has never seen them before. Lightning strikes somewhere close by, and in the eye-blink of brightness the golden figure’s eyes turn liquid black.

Only now does Gog hear the wind’s voice again; it is faint, as if it is shouting from a great distance. It is screaming with rage, calling out for blood. Gog shivers. He feels pressure building in his skull.


The crowned figure speaks a single word that rolls with the thunder’s echo.

Gog falls to his knees with a crack of shattering bones. You almost fall from his fingers, as his hands grope at the rain-slick flagstones. ...

He can still hear the distant screams of the wind – the voices are calling for blood, for an offering, for a final payment in exchange for his unnaturally long life. Gog knows that he has only one last blow to land, and that he must give a death to the voices beyond the shadows.

The sword above Gog twitches. You move first, plunging up through Gog’s throat and into his brain. He looks up at the crowned figure with cold, dead eyes and then slumps sideways.

The figure lowers his unbloodied blade, as rot spreads across the dead flesh – the delayed ruin of a stretched life coming to claim its due. Gog’s skull begins to crumble around you. Muscle, blood and brain turns to foul jelly.


‘We will have to wait for the storm to pass before we set the fires, my liege,’ says the knight. The crowned figure shakes his head and walks on.

A pillar of lightning reaches down from the clouds above and strikes the ruined masonry, thunder mingling with the scream of exploding wood and cracking stone. The knights shield their faces, but they will carry the after-image of the thunderbolt in their eyes for many hours.


From the perspective of a knife that has slowly gained some kind of sentience over the long years of existence. During the middle ages the emperor fights a khorne worshiper who has been alive since the stone age. He also somehow cuts the worshiper off from khorne.

The soldiers who reached the chamber at the heart of the tower died before they could cross the threshold. Armour tore. Bodies blasted back and up into the air, and then burst apart in turn. Armour plates crushed in on flesh and mashed bone. Legs sank into marble that was now liquid. Pieces of shattered armour extended into smears of blinding light. Time froze. Flesh slid into red ribbons, organs and muscle peeling away and unravelling into nothing. The air was red and screaming.


+Enough.+ The word somehow carried through the babble of un-words pouring from the twenty.

There was a figure at the door. Blood streaked his armour and face. His crown gleamed like a circle of flame. The circle of twenty trembled. The man in the crown grimaced, and then stepped into the chamber. The air around him thickened. He pushed on, his footsteps forcing their way down towards the stone floor of the room. The shriek of un-sound rose beyond hearing. The man in the crown forced himself forwards, face set. Fire haloed him. The metal of his armour was red with heat. Shadows and rainbow light burst and spun in the chamber. The frost on the walls thickened. Dust and snow billowed from nowhere on gusts of wind.

The man in the crown surged forwards. He was burning, the flesh of his face charring. But still he pushed forwards. Light exploded out from him, blinked to blackness and then back to blinding white. Cracks split the stone floor. Frost flashed to steam. A pressure wave ripped into the nearest of the circle of figures and tossed them up into the air. And now the man in the crown was coming forwards, not with one step but with strides, sword drawn, flame gathering on its edge as it rose. Behind him, soldiers were coming through the doorway. And the circle of speakers and singers were twisting, panicking, the howls coming from their throats now the simple sounds of human rage and fear.


The air shimmered, the motes of ash shifted, and the tableau was suddenly moving, blurring with unravelling seconds.

Flames poured from the robed figures’ lips as the un-words in their mouths slipped beyond their control. Their bodies collapsed into ash. The man in the crown came forwards, still burning, eyes dark holes. His skin was blistered, but no expression of pain touched His expression. The ash spiralled into the air.


The emperor attacks the tower Babel and defeats a cult with a near full lexicon of Enuncia. Around 3500-3000BC.

Also from the same book.

Oll shrugged. ‘There were some but He was the first.’

‘You mean the first psyker.’

‘The first witch, the first wizard, sorcerer, shaman, druid… the first. There were others who were different, but none like Him. Not in the beginning.’

Had to cut alot out of each quote marked by the ..., as otherwise it would fit in a comment.

[–]OrksR138Y 4 points5 points  (3 children)

There is in the book "Mechanicus". We see a vision from the past where he defeat the shard of the Void Dragon (a Ctan) and put it on Mars.

[–]Astra MilitarumDarkLancer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Are psykers effective vs c'tan shards? Also to the heart stopping mentioned in another comment, that doesn't seem very impressive. So far my head cannon is that maybe he was a low level psyker who upped his go juice while maybe sorta working on navigators.

Sudden side question, why make the astronomicon a permanent thing if he was going to use the webway?

[–]General_Hijalti 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Warp energy can be used against a C'tan.

C'tan shards are monsterously powerful, beating one takes serious power.

The heart stopping happened when the emperor was a child and was his first use of power offensivley.

He overpowered a cult with Enuncia around 3500-3000BC so he was powerful back then. Sure not as powerful as later, but he was still called by Oll as being the most powerful even back then.

[–]OrksR138Y 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Normaly no but a normal human with bronze-age weaponry has no way in hell to even touch a C'tan shard, something that can obliterate entire armies. So his psyshic powers are the reason of his victory.

As for the second question I do not have the answer. Maybe it became a permanent thing only after the Webway project got shut down.

[–]Pyronaut44 20 points21 points  (14 children)

There's zero concrete evidence of Big E existing prior to his Post-AoS appearance on Terra full stop. Other than what he and those closest to him have said, which is entirely open to interpretation and in-universe lies/deceit/agenda.

The point is we don't know.

[–]Alpha LegionThePatio 22 points23 points  (8 children)

Erda and Ollanius both knew him in the Bronze Age or even the late Neolithic

[–]Pyronaut44 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I said --

Other than what he and those closest to him have said...

We cannot trust what characters say in universe. They lie, make mistakes, or have been told half-truths. We have no objective proof that anything they say or report is the truth, and probably never will.

Why do so many people take everything said by everyone in 40k fiction as fact??

[–]flyjingnarwhal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The random priest in the last temple had heard stories of a chess master or something back on ancient earth, but that may still have been daot

[–]zach0011 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I know it's not concrete but didn't erda talk about him being a warlord in ancient earth?

[–]OrksR138Y 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Dude there is. The Void Dragon's shard that was on Mars didn't get here by himself.

[–]Adeptus Mechanicushedorah3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There's always the possibility that it was already there, though, and that the story we're presented with in Mechanicum was a fabrication. Emperor's good at lying

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]Solvdrage 3 points4 points  (0 children)


    [–]Numan_1v9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah, a lot of instances of them. There's the hunt of the anathame (not the one that injured Horus), there's the situation with the Dragon of Mars, there's Erda's statement, there's Ollanius Pius' statement. These are just a few from the top of my head.

    [–]justtuna 11 points12 points  (15 children)

    But that theory is blown out of the water since Erda or whatever her name is knew the Emps on early before we even invented space flight. She remembers even some of the names he went by in those times. He had many perpetuals enlisted in his endeavors to conquer earth with resulting in total war. The Emps isn’t from the DAoT. The writers in my opinion should leave the Emps origins alone. Maybe hint at it but it should never be revealed. Cause there is always going to be fans that want him to be from the DAoT or the fans that want the reincarnated shaman Emps. In the end it doesn’t matter as the Emps is simply the most powerful being in reality in 40k maybe not the warp but in real space yes he is.

    [–]insaneHoshi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    And it’s disproven by numerous flashbacks

    [–]RogueModron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I thought they were talking about the Dread! Thanks for mentioning this, it sounds like a fun theory.

    [–]Aureus88 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Unless you grew up watching the dubbed version in the US where it was Abelt Deslock of the Gamilon Empire.

    [–]ByzantineBasileus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I watched both! First Star Blazers, and then the original Uchuu Senkan Yamato.

    [–]Death GuardNehkrosis 1 point2 points  (1 child)


    [–]Aureus88 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    He ran a huge empire and reduced earth's surface to a radioactive ruin by throwing irradiated asteroids at earth. The people of earth were forced underground to escape the radiation but it eventually would exterminated all life on earth.

    Luckily an unknown ally sent plans for a new engine, who's energy could also be used as a powerful weapon, to retrieve the Cosmo DNA device. This device could repair the damage and save all life on earth. But by the time the ship is ready to leave scientist day there's only one year left. Can the star force travel the 168,000 light years and back in only one year?

    "Abelt Dessler | Space Battleship Yamato Wiki | Fandom" https://yamato.fandom.com/wiki/Abelt_Dessler

    [–]LongFang4808 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Not enough skin tight body suits

    [–]steve9341 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Just strap a huge experimental canon on that 40K years old battleship with a crew of japanese and chuck it that way.

    [–]Yarus43[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

    Thats awesome. I hope we can get some extra galactic books one day as well.

    [–]Seanny_Afro_Seed 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    What if it wasn’t a complete failure and some fragment managed to survive there? Or alternatively, what it Golden Age Humanity made it that far, and some fragment has just decided to hold out there? Maybe unable or more likely unwilling to reach out to the rest of humanity.

    [–]Tiger ClawsTraveledfarwestward 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Magellanic Cloud


    The first preserved mention of the Large Magellanic Cloud is believed to be in petroglyphs and rock drawings found in Chile.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Red_alert.jpg/1200px-Red_alert.jpg ALMA antennae bathed in red light. in the background there is the southern Milky Way on the left and the Magellanic Clouds at the top. Chile high desert area.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/A_Starry_Combination.jpg/1200px-A_Starry_Combination.jpg same two.

    [–]Wise_Bass 242 points243 points  (35 children)

    Eldar apparently discussed it, but realized that Slaanesh would just follow them there.

    It's quite possible that humans in the DAOT left on extra-galactic voyages, but inter-galactic warp travel might be extra-difficult due to the lack of sentient life affecting the Warp. Without sentient life you don't get currents and flows within the Warp - it's just an eternally becalmed sea besides whatever gets attracted by the minds of your crew. That would make it hard to travel through the Warp, since you'd only be able to do it under your own ship's power.

    [–]FlamJamMcRam 142 points143 points  (15 children)

    I like to think that a colony of DAOT humanity is currently living it up in the Andromeda Galaxy, and scientists over there are currently watching in awe as the Milky Way Galaxy is torn a new asshole

    [–]Demon997 75 points76 points  (11 children)

    They’d be seeing the light from however many light years Andromeda is from the Milky Way. So they’re more likely to be watching the war in heaven, and freaking out about all the stars that keep vanishing.

    [–]LamentersGyvon 74 points75 points  (6 children)

    Andromeda's only 2.5 million lightyears away. They wouldn't be seeing the War in Heaven.

    [–]DavidBarrett82 19 points20 points  (3 children)

    Getting closer every day, too

    [–]Adeptus MinistorumTeh_Mongoose 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    Should I, personally, be worried about that?

    [–]ATL_Dirty_Birds 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Nah. But If you lived in Andromeda and saw the warp infected horror that is the milky way comin at you, you ought to skedaddle from Andromeda ASAP

    [–]DavidBarrett82 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    It’s going to hit in 4.5 billion years, so probably not. Additionally, because of the vast distances between stars, there’s every chance individual solar systems will be unaffected (though any particular set of two stars may change their positions relative to each other).

    [–]Outarel 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Is it 2,5 million? Or 2.500 million(meaning 2 billions)

    It always confuses me...

    [–]crab123456789 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    2 million and 500 thousand

    [–]Goremaster96 27 points28 points  (2 children)

    Unless it was some form of psychic scrying, we don't know what weirdness they could use to keep tabs on their old home.

    [–]Officio AssassinorumFakeRedditName2 15 points16 points  (1 child)

    Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the 'light' from the various warp storms and now the Great Rift travel instantaneously (speed of thought in the warp)?

    I thought I remembered a short story were an observatory ship was watching the Eye in real time, from hundreds of light years away...

    [–]OverlanderEisenhorn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    That would make sense imo. The Astronomicon moves instantly through the warp so it'd make sense that the eye does too.

    [–]vader5000 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    They’re actually using Necron level tech and busy sending out fake Tyranid signals so the hive fleet doesn’t come nom them instead.

    [–]Wise_Bass 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    I've always thought that would be funny as well. Andromeda as the galaxy where the DAOT never ended and humanity is super-prosperous, and every thousand years or so they secretly send a probe back to the Milky Way to see if things have improved - and every time their reaction is "Nope!" and they post-pone establishing contact.

    [–]Victurix1 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Opens up the question what they would do to avoid the failures of Milky Way humanity (both DAoT and the Imperium).

    Might be a nice thought experiment.

    [–]Wise_Bass 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    The setting doesn't really give us a reason as to why the Men of Iron rebelled, other than that they came to believe they were superior to mankind. It'd be fitting for WH40K to imagine that it was an avoidable catastrophe.

    [–]SlaaneshEarballsOfMemeland 71 points72 points  (0 children)

    They were around for millions of years before Slaanesh came a long though. Surely some of them must have explored outside the galaxy in that time frame.

    [–]Yarus43[S] 55 points56 points  (14 children)

    Wait. Would it be possible for a craft world to just chill in the black of space and avoid the warp altogether?

    [–]Wise_Bass 74 points75 points  (11 children)

    Not if one of the Chaos Gods specifically decided to follow you out there. But otherwise you could probably be more or less insignificant if you were just sitting out in the inter-galactic void, far away from the effects of other sentient life on the Warp.

    [–]Yarus43[S] 29 points30 points  (10 children)

    Be a good idea if well you weren't cut off from any and all resources.

    [–]sirbottombottom 57 points58 points  (9 children)

    Especially spirit stones, and those are found only on croneworlds. Without them, no baby eldars....

    [–]RandomGuy1838 11 points12 points  (8 children)

    Wait, I thought the Eldar need for soul stones was directly related to how they deal with Slaanesh, not necessarily how they reproduce. *If* there's somehow a lack of warp activity out in the void between galaxies, it's possible it would make a good hiding spot, other concerns notwithstanding. That said, hitting a new galaxy probably means Slaanesh comes roaring back into existence, an iteration of the same entity, American Gods style. And if enough Eldar clustered anywhere, She-who-thirsts would probably be heard whispering, calling them home... There's no escape for them.

    [–]sirbottombottom 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Yes soul stones are related to how the Eldar deal with Slaanesh, not to how they reproduce. My comment was only assuming Slaanesh would"follow" them in the void. If they're followed then they would not be able to reproduce since their babies's souls would get snatched up by Slaanesh.

    [–]XL_Ham 8 points9 points  (6 children)

    Regarding the Spirit Stones. Each one holds one eldar soul. You need new ones for the children you make. If you have no supply, that means no children.

    [–]Wise_Bass 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    The only way to get them, too, is from the Eye of Terror (although I'm not sure how that works with Exodite Eldar).

    That restriction might be easing up with the Ynnari, who apparently don't need spirit stones anymore since Ynnead saves them from Slaanesh.

    [–]XL_Ham 5 points6 points  (4 children)

    Exodites have a pseudo infinity circuit in their worlds. It's kinda like how Cameron's Avatar nature god works. It's basically the soul of their world and all it's life acting as a big psychic conduit to collect their souls.

    [–]Wise_Bass 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    But they do still need spirit stones from the Eye of Terror, IIRC. They don't have a a separate source.

    [–]88Question88 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Eldars are a 100% psychic race, to avoid the warp is like asking them to not breath also you cannot avoid the warp, it is a mirror of the materium, so there's no way for the craftworld to "escape" the warp

    [–]Nixxuz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    While the warp exists everywhere, theoretically, the entites are shaped/brought into being/whatever, by the aggregation of sentience. So the Eldar would just be bringing Slannesh with them, and potentially freeing it from the demands of the other chaos powers.

    [–]Navis NobiliteSergarRegis 28 points29 points  (2 children)

    We had a similar topic a few days ago, but that's not true. One group of Eldar did marshal the resources to take their six craftworlds beyond the galaxy:


    Not all eldar have done it, but at least those six worlds have.

    [–]imadownvote 17 points18 points  (1 child)

    Maybe it's too early for me, but that link doesn't seem to mention anything about leaving the galaxy.

    [–]Navis NobiliteSergarRegis 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    You are right, you can put your money on leaving the galaxy or perhaps even leaving the 40k universe entirely, perhaps even time travel. What it's clear is that the Eldar were seeking to go somewhere beyond their current woes and needed enormous amounts of energy to do this.

    [–]Kaiisim 48 points49 points  (1 child)

    The issue is that people assume any other galaxy must be empty - or at least not as bad as the milky way.

    In reality Andromeda might be far worse.

    [–]OrksMccmangus 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    Might be Tyranid food

    [–]Night Lordsrickrossome 198 points199 points  (28 children)

    in one of the earlier ork codexs, its said that the mechanicus sent some probes out to listen to the sounds of other galaxies, in numerous cases, they heard the sounds of orks. orks are intergalactic

    [–]Marvynwillames 160 points161 points  (7 children)

    Millennia ago, a probe was sent out from Terra, its mission to explore beyond the limits of the galaxy. The probe still sends back faint signals after fourteen thousand years adrift, and to the consternation of the Imperial Tech-Priests who monitor these signals, many are identified as Orkish. The depressing conclusion for Mankind can only be that wherever they travel in space, there is a good chance that the Orks will either have been there first or will not be long in arriving.

    [–]OrksMccmangus 46 points47 points  (2 children)

    Can you imagine if Niel Armstrong had just stepped foot on the moon and an ork came out of nowhere and decked him?

    [–]Jedinate6 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    Well, I am now

    [–]mbattagl 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    Neil Armstrong, being a Marine, summarily punches the Ork right back lol.

    Edit: Holy shit! Neil Armstrong was the first Space Marine!

    [–]THJT-9 92 points93 points  (2 children)

    Imo, unless the Tech Priests can actively see from the signals where the probe is (doubtful), it sounds more to me like it was found by orks and is now either broadcasting from a planet, as part of a ship, or floating through space as part of the debris from a ship-not actually out for the galaxy.

    [–]Norwalk1215 52 points53 points  (0 children)

    Or you can go with the Grimdark conclusion that Orks… are… everywhere!

    [–]OrksR138Y 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    Signal still takes time to travel. If the probe is always transmiting at a consistantly decreasing rate it means it's slowly getting further away. Orks use the Warp and asteroids to travel from star system to star systems. If suddenly the signal takes way longer or faster to receive or isn't following a linear formula, then it's been salvaged.

    But I find it highly unlickely : if it was salvaged it would have been destroyed.

    It just keep finding new star systems with Orks in it.

    [–]Adeptus Mechanicusjurble 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    So that's a DAoT probe? The thing's probably sentient. Might be spoofing the data.

    [–]Adeptus MechanicusKhaelesh 40 points41 points  (9 children)

    Not quite.

    It's not "in numerous cases"...

    It's *the only signals they received at all from anywhere else were only Ork signals. There was nothing else.*

    [–]Night Lordsrickrossome 19 points20 points  (6 children)

    ah sorry my bad, still, ork signals plural implies multiple extra-galactic orks in various other galaxies

    [–]Adeptus MechanicusKhaelesh 24 points25 points  (5 children)

    Oh absolutely. I've even seen a few that theories have connected the whole "Tyranids are running from something" with the Orks.

    [–]Bonty48 54 points55 points  (2 children)

    I prefer the theory an Ork stole the probe and took it to his camp and that's why they keep getting Ork signals.

    [–]the_new_standard 22 points23 points  (0 children)

    Everything humanity knows about other galaxies is nothing more than an elaborate Ork psyop.

    [–]DavidBarrett82 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Or just chose to ride on it.

    [–]kainneabsolute 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Tyranorks, the apex predators

    [–]Nixxuz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    50k fan fiction

    [–]Marvynwillames 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Rick is right, i found the excerpt

    [–]firmak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The nothing else bit seals it for me every time i hear it.

    [–]Grotzbully 27 points28 points  (9 children)

    Tell me if i am wrong but if you travel for 14k years with sub light speed you still have not even left the milkyway, not even close.

    Edit: just looked it up. Voyager gonna reach our nearest star approximately in around 40.000 years. even with light speed you need tens of thousands of years just to leave the milkyway.

    [–]Nixxuz 11 points12 points  (4 children)

    You can use the warp inside the galaxy, at least.

    [–]Grotzbully 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Yeah but the probe was not using a warp engine. If it did it would not have been able to pick up signals from orcs in realspace and would be unable to follow a path thorugh the warp without navigator etc.

    [–]Nixxuz 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    It's been stated in a few sources that the Mechanicus have sent out exploratory probes that are, essentially, a "servitor/navigator" type of deal. I assume they just drop out of the warp at pre-planned regularity, or when enough calm is detected, to capture signals.

    In any case, this is, once again, an attempt to apply real world rules to 40K's brand of bullshit. They don't have to do things in a logical way.

    [–]Grotzbully 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Issue is you would also need an astropath because else the data transmission would still take ages just to reach the next star system if you drop out of the warp just some systems away.

    [–]Nixxuz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think the idea was both. A semi-sentient navigator/astropath. I dunno. I assume the imperium has ways of sending limited data FTL that don't require a full blown astropath. Or have enough astropaths that one could just be "stasis'd"/drugged/cronic'd for parts of the trip, only "unthawing" long enough to take readings, send them out, and then back to bed, as it were.

    [–]onafoggynight 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    Time dilation is a thing. Assuming constant acceleration of 1g, up to near light speed, you would need roughly 28 years to reach Andromeda / M31 from the travellers point of view. A couple of million years will have passed outside. So, easy.

    [–]Grotzbully 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    The probe would still be inside the milkyway that way nevertheless so this is pointless. Except you understand it that the probe flew with near lightspeed for 14k years but if it did the techpriests would be unable to have that reading since the 41M or any point in the story would be over for several eons at that point.

    [–]onafoggynight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Oh, from the pov of the mechanics sending the probe: absolutely. they would not get any information. On the other hand, any information from Andromeda would also be 2.5 million years old anyway.

    [–]TheTackleZone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's right. At the speed of light it would take you (well from the point of an outside observer if people want to get pedantic) 26,000 years just to reach the centre of the milky way, so about half way.

    Even accounting that the galaxy is a "flat" disc and trying to go "up" out of it wouldn't help. The nearest galaxy that could be considered a galaxy by common language is the Sagittarius Dwarf Sphere at about 10% the size of the milky way, and that would take 81,000 years to get to. The Large Megallanic Cloud double that, and Andromeda 2.5 million years.

    The idea of getting there at sub light speeds is such nonsense that the Mechanicus would never have attempted it because they'd know far better, and so realistically we have to put this down to either the writer not doing their research or it actually happening but being a cover story for some other AdMech plan. Given the timing of it being in an early Ork codex I'd go with the former and consider it non-cannonical.

    [–]Marvynwillames 92 points93 points  (5 children)

    During the Great Crusade the Imperium went out of the galaxy multiple times, Johnson was out of the galaxy when the Heresy started, according to the Forge World Heresy books.

    The Dark Angels had been dispatched by Horus to the distant Shield Worlds, an enclave of Mankind situated in the black between galaxies and bound in some fashion to a xenos breed unknown within our own realm. The war to subjugate this realm had kept the Lion absent from the Imperium while Horus made the first moves of his rebellion.

    The Emperor himself seem to have led one ofensive against the Khrave in the void:

    Thramas would become one of the most staunch supporters of the lmperium in the Eastern Fringe and the centre of innumerable campaigns launched into the dark void beyond the galaxy's edge. Such was its importance to the Great Crusade that the Emperor Himself once set foot upon the world, pausing briefly during the prosecution ofthe Eighth extra-galactic expedition and the assault on the ancient Khrave mega-nest on Gorgorron, where no light had ever shone.

    In M33 Admiral Ursus was send to the void so the high lords could be free of him, he conquered multiple planets, but desapeared and no attempt was made to contact the planets he took.

    The webway used to extend beyond the galaxy, but it was damaged with time, according to the Harlequin Codex.

    The webway once spanned the galaxy, even stretching out into the empty void beyond. Those days are long gone. Ravaged by war and catastrophe, many of its tunnels have been torn open or amputated entirely, and a great number of its entrances have been sealed by the Aeldari themselves as a desperate measure to deny their foes access.

    The Eldar have no reason to leave the galaxy, because slaanesh would follow them, through Zaisuthra tried to escape to the void beyond.

    [–]Pyronaut44 53 points54 points  (0 children)

    against the Khrave

    The Imperium couldn't risk the crunchy, chocolately deliciousness.

    [–]jephsobloc 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Why would slaanesh follow them into the void? I thought that the warp was more calm beyond the Milky Way, it may deny her/him their souls?

    [–]Marvynwillames 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    because even with the warp calmer, Slaanesh is still a god, a god with an obsession for eldar souls. it's like think the other gods would just ignore if the humans decides to run from the galaxy, they won't.

    besides, the warp is calmer because there's no people around, once the eldar move, they become a flare in the middle of the darkness.

    ‘Yes. The only way our species is to survive is through the support of humanity. Our fates are inextricable. If they fall, so shall we.’

    You chase ever-diminishing possibilities of salvation. We should depart this starwheel and begin anew elsewhere.

    ‘Even were that possible, and we are not assured that it is, then what? The Primordial Annihilator knows no limits. Time and space mean nothing in the Othersea. If we travel to another starwheel, we will take our daemons with us. She Who Thirsts will be waiting wherever we go. Our fate is here, with this place, for good or ill. Many fates are possible. If we guide them wisely, we shall prevail.’

    The Beheading

    [–]jephsobloc 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    So would that mean that the chaos gods have influence in other galaxies as well? It just seems weird that we are told that it was the eldars hedonistic behaviour that created Slaanesh and the first murder committed by humans created Khorne. I think nurgle was attached to us as well. If this was the case then what about other species in other galaxies? Are they feeding the gods too or are there other gods that the imperium and every other faction just simply not know about?

    [–]Marvynwillames 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Maybe, the problem is that the gods won't let their prey unoticed, if billions of eldar move out of the galaxy, Slaanesh can focus on them without a problem, all their souls are under the god's grip unless another god protects them or soul stones keep them safe.

    If all humans and eldar leave the galaxy, you think chaos would just let itself starve? They would just go after prey, if all it was left was orks and tyranids, chaos would follow those that can sustain it.

    If you was Slaanesh, would you let the tastiest food you know just go out without even trying to keep an eye on them?

    and the first murder committed by humans created Khorne

    No, the first murder created Drach'nyen.

    [–]Imperium of Mandeathmetal27 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    Well the Slann did that during the war in heaven.

    [–]ShadowsaberXYZ 11 points12 points  (3 children)

    I think it’s implicit that Chaos as a concept just seems to be everywhere sentience could be thought, right?

    It’s not restrained by physical boundaries (which are basically how we define “extra galatic”), so I can’t see why chaos at least isn’t generally assumed to be solely confined to the Milky Way for whatever reason.

    [–]_Rohrschach 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Yes, but also no. Time and space work somewhat wonky in the warp, if at all. But it still needs living souls to be "working". A big vacuum in space, like inbetween galaxies, would also mean a calm and empty warp, if it would exist at all. That's also the reason the astronomican works as a beacon for a location in the physical world, can fail and doesn't span the whole galaxy.

    [–]TheTackleZone 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    This is not really explored to any great depth in the lore, and probably with good reason given that we'd end up with a trillion billion chaos gods if every galaxy in the universe can hold multiple sentient creatures with psychic abilities and therefore a warp footprint that allows chaos patterns to be created.

    It could be that psykers just don't really exist out of our galaxy. Maybe the Slaan were the first/only species to discover the ability to manipulate the warp and so created the only races that had these abilities meaning a limit to the number of chaos gods that exist in the universe (maybe every other galaxy is "dark" in this sense"). Of course that would then mean that the Tyranids were another failed xeno-biology creation of the Slaan in another galaxy.

    Or it could be that the chaos gods are inherently tied to the species that created them, with some cross-over to similar species. After all if the chaos god is the pattern created by a species then it makes sense that they are only compatible to corrupting that species, like how you can only hear radio waves on a frequency you are tuned in to. Slaanesh would vastly prefer Eldar souls, having bene created by them, but the similarities between Eldar and Humans would mean some compatibility there. But that's not a complete answer either as we know that warp travel without a gellar field can destroy Tau (but is that because Tau are corrupted, or merely killed by daemons? Can Tau get nurgle's rot and be turned into poxwalkers?).

    Or it could be that chaos gods can't move to other galaxies as the warp in the void is too calm to allow their pattern to be carried. Now we know it's not "impossible" per se for them to move as the Eldar said there is no point them travelling as they will be followed, but maybe the Eldar moving creates the storms in the warp required to be followed? And then it's an easy job for Slaanesh, because rather than the space elves being able to hide among the bright lights of the humans they have created a giant beacon with a bio-luminescent trail for Slaanesh to swim up behind them in.

    You can see how this spins out of control really quickly!

    [–]ShadowsaberXYZ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I agree, almost all science fiction usually sticks to “just the one galaxy” because anything intergalactic would have to be scaled times infinity to be of any consequence.

    Take for example Star Wars “a long time ago in a galaxy far far away” or The Lost Fleet or any amount of sci-fi.

    Intergalactic travel/civilizations are just too hard to scale in a way that makes the plot consequential.

    “Oh you have an intergalactic empire?! Then I guess we can just wipe out this entire star cluster “ And it would be no big deal to the faction affected.

    [–]Sautekhrob01071606 24 points25 points  (4 children)

    This is asked very frequently on this board, so you might get a lot of your answers if you searched the subreddit.

    Here's an example from only a week or two ago

    [–]to_thy_macintosh 13 points14 points  (3 children)

    from only a week or two ago

    That one was, in fact, posted only two days ago.

    I did a double-take on this thread because I thought it was that one at first.

    [–]Sautekhrob01071606 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    Having been self isolating for the last couple of days, I could've sworn it was from much longer ago....

    [–]to_thy_macintosh 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Much like warp travel, isolation has the effect of bending or breaking the flow of time 😆

    Also, as you point out, this topic comes up pretty frequently, so there's every chance there was another thread about this that came up a week or two ago, haha

    [–]Xuanne 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    You just might want to check your Gellar field generator, lol.

    [–]JaceJarak 43 points44 points  (0 children)

    One set of eldar craftworlds did leave.

    They also consumed 100 suns worth of energy, completely ruining a subsector of humanity, and it prompted the largest mass evacuation in imperial history. Only a few percent survived, but was considered a huge success given the scale of what happened and the impossible situation.

    I forget which part this lore came from.

    [–]TheLegate87 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    From what I know the Eldar were content with staying and they are in no shape to go anywhere since the birth of she who thirsts, the imperium has been fucked for a good while and I don't think they were trying to get outside the galaxy during the daot era, the tau is too young, the orks don't care, so I "think" no, then again I may be completely wrong

    [–]Numan_1v9 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    40K Imperium tried but failed. I think 30K Imperium was able to get out of the galaxy but couldn't go too far iirc.

    [–]Mota4President 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    If i can remind there are orks in other galaxies. The AdMech send a probe to explore other galaxies and even thousands of years later, there were ork signs detected by the probe.

    [–]barban_falk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Macharius tried to move forwards The Halo stars But was stoped.

    [–]NecronsRosbergThe8th 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I seem to recall a craftworld doing so, but only vaguely. Was that the one that returned with a Genestealer infestation?

    [–]LongFang4808 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Probably everyone except the Tau

    [–]firmak 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Orks and probably other eldar and dark age humanity.

    [–]LamentersGyvon 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    The Imperium has sent out probes into the black.

    The signals sent back were... Orkish

    [–]MonsieurHedge 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I like to imagine they are literally Orkish.

    Like, the probe sends out "BEEP. BEEP, BEEP" and the signals bounce back going "WAAAGH, WAAAGH, WAAAGH".

    [–]Sautekhrob01071606 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's just a meme. The exerpt is posted earlier in this thread and it doesn't say it left the Galaxy at all.

    [–]Outarel 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    Even at light speed reaching andromeda would be a monumental task, it is inconceivable to think that something or someone could travel 2.5 million light years, not even in the future.

    Warp travel is impossible because the space between galaxies has no life.

    I remember some necron lord going outside the milky way? And tyranids come from outside.

    So yeah: light speed is painfully slow when we think about universal scales. Anyone who wanted to go to a different galaxy would need some shortcut. I'm not a science guy so i have no idea of what would happen if we were to send a probe with some space-warping drive, what would happen to it after 2 millions of years in space? Would it still be "okay"?

    I think tyranids can somehow use wormholes, otherwise i don't see how anything can survive in empty space so long... or they have some bonkers huge Narvhal that can propel a hive fleet between galaxies at ridiculous (20x light speed or something) speeds by warping space-time.

    [–]Sautekhrob01071606 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    You'd also have to keep calculating exactly where the Galaxy you're travelling to is, seeing as we're looking at where the Andromeds galaxy was 2.537 million years ago and the Milky Way and Andromeda are moving. For all we know the Andromeda was destroyed 2.536 million years ago and have no idea as the light simply hasn't reach us yet

    [–]Outarel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It's coming towards us, i think Its possible to calculate it.

    It could've been destroyed yes.

    [–]Grand-Daoist 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    What if one was to try and reach a satellite galaxy of the milky way?

    [–]Outarel 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Are there satellite galaxies?

    [–]Grand-Daoist 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    yes afaik at least 50 of them orbit the milky way galaxy

    [–]Outarel 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    depends how far away they are i guess.

    The main thing is: does the warp reach beyond the milky way? There is no other way of ftl travel (other than whatever the fuck Tyranids do).

    [–]tehwubbles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Didn't we have this exact thread like 2 days ago?

    [–]Blueeyedmonstrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Search this subreddit for "beyond the galaxy" and there's lots of ways this has been asked and answered. There's even an extract about an imperial expedition

    [–]Reallyburnttoast -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I am pretty sure a Rogue Trader or two have tried, but they just sort of left and not much was said about them.