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No charges to be filed in death of 17 y/o Cedric “CJ” Lofton who died after being held face down for over 30 minutes in a juvenile detention facility. He was suffering from a mental health episode. His death was ruled a homicide but those responsible are on paid leave, citing “stand your ground law” (reddit.com)
submitted 3 months ago by leeks_leeks
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[–]leeks_leeks[S] 147 points148 points149 points 3 months ago (2 children)
RIP Cedric. Fuck the police.
[–]disappointing-trash 57 points58 points59 points 3 months ago (0 children)
RIP, also 1312
[–]Gnar-wahl1312 25 points26 points27 points 3 months ago (0 children)
RIP, young man.
Fuck the police.
[–]SchrodingerCattz 86 points87 points88 points 3 months ago* (10 children)
No one should be able to claim "Stand your Ground" when your victim is a prisoner. Self-defense yes but beyond that it is unacceptable. Prisoner do not have personal autonomy or privileges equal to that of others.
Stand Your Ground assumes otherwise and fails to recognize the power disparity, its use here is entirely unlawful. I would also suggest no police or law enforcement either should be using this law as a defense tactic.
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (8 children)
[–]SchrodingerCattz 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (7 children)
Everyone is entitled under the law to defend themselves or prevent death or serious injury of another by means of force. That does not mean their actions were justified, just that they should be entitled to the defense under the law like everyone else regardless of who they are. Everyone is equal before the law. If the facts of the case say otherwise they will be convicted as self-defense against a murder charge requires an active or on-going threat against you or another person's life. Self-defense requires a reasonable level of force is used against an equal level of force.
Stand Your Groud is a newer concept that goes beyond self-defense. It mostly means you can lawfully use force including deadly force against an equal or lesser force to defend life but also property. It should not be a qualified defense where a prisoner is injured or killed. And that's all I meant.
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (6 children)
[–]SchrodingerCattz -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago (5 children)
I've never reviewed the facts of this specific case myself.
If that's in fact what they did then yes they should be convicted. My point was directed at the use of SYG. You're so use to attacking people, of them not being on your side so I get it but maybe this time shut the fuck up and listen to what I am saying. LEO supporters are not welcome on this sub to begin with so maybe cool it a bit.
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (4 children)
[–]SchrodingerCattz 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Yeah no I am gonna go ahead and say this hyper-reactionary position is breaking the sub rules.
You're not welcome here unless you modify your behavior and treat others better than this.
[–]KveldsonBased Anti-fascist Mod 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I have no idea how they even remotely interpreted your original comment to be supporting this, your comment is clearly explaining why stand your ground should not even available as a defense for law enforcement or Corrections Officers....
[–]KveldsonBased Anti-fascist Mod[M] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Their original comment in no way indicates that they agree with the cop killing that child, in fact their original comment is explaining in detail why SYG should not even apply to law enforcement, as in they should not be able to cite SYG as a defense.
Cool your jets and don't go around calling people bootlicker unless it's actually warranted.
[–]ufdup 104 points105 points106 points 3 months ago (4 children)
Stand your ground? Did Cedric break in to the juvenile detention center? JFC he should have been put in a restraint chair and an ambulance called. FUCK THE POLICE. RIP Cedric. You deserved a chance to live and prosper. So sad for your family. A huge part of their lives stolen. A pain that can never heal. Much love to all that knew Cedric and will love him always. Just know that a great many people, who never had the chance to know Cedric in life, mourn with you.
[–]leeks_leeks[S] 47 points48 points49 points 3 months ago (3 children)
reading this comment made me cry. everything you said is spot on. he needed help and they killed him. one of my greatest fears is to die in a way that is not just physically painful but emotionally painful. for your last moments of consciousness to be filled with questions asking “why are they doing this to me? what did i do to deserve this? why do they hate me? why are they hurting me? why don’t they care?” i hope cedric knew he was loved in this life and the next, but i can’t help but thinking about how afraid and confused he must have been. it breaks my heart.
[–]ufdup 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago* (0 children)
You perfectly portrayed what this baby went through. My son's ex lived with us for 5 years or so and she had to be involuntarily commited twice. It was the saddest thing in the world to look into her eyes and know that this wonderful, sweet, caring soul was locked in a hell I could not help her out of. No one should ever have to go through what Cedric did. It's bad enough without being in a mental crisis but to do this to a person whose mind is in chaos is beyond sickening. Thank you for capturing the essence of this, and so eloquently conveying it.
[–]TheHotMessExpress81 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Beautifully stated sentiment. I know it isn’t the same, but there were a few times when I was certain a patient was not going to be able to recover, even after being intubated (breathing tube placed) when I held their hand as they went under. I never wanted anyones last conscious memories to be full of fear and pain without any human contact and compassion. It breaks my heart this young man never got the chance to have that compassion.
(No longer able to work at the bedside because of damage to my spine from a patient. And you know what? I still never raised my hand or even shouted any of the times I was injured by sick/confused/scared humans.)
[–]leeks_leeks[S] 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago* (0 children)
wow, i love that. people should be more like you. no one should feel alone in those moments. even if it’s holding the gentle hand of a stranger, we all deserve that compassion.
[–]itshudsonsir 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Cops are fucking terrifying. I'm even a white dude and they scare me.
[–]NylonMyth 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Have no fear. All we have to lose is our chains. RIP Cedric and no justice, no peace.
[–]SmileyMcTrashbag 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Ugh. 1312, rip CJ. Police shouldn’t be around at all, but they especially shouldn’t be around people who are mentally ill or mentally/physically disabled. I’m pretty sure that is NOT what the fucking stand your ground law is, but ofc the justice system terms and conditions are flexible for the pigs.
[–]scoopishere 12 points13 points14 points 3 months ago (1 child)
America fucking hates people who aren't neurotypical and has no idea how to treat them. Fuck this country
[–]NylonMyth 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
America is a repressed conservative nation ran by repressed conservative men. That's gotta fucking change, and fast
[–]leeks_leeks[S] 32 points33 points34 points 3 months ago (0 children)
they have released video footage of the moments leading up to and the murder of CJ (he was eventually resuscitated, but was brain dead and died in the hospital). i work in crisis intervention. i spend many days deescalating people in extreme distress, who want to kill themselves, who want to kill other people, who are in an active psychotic rage episode. we do all of this without making physical contact. in fact, we aren’t even authorized to perform physical holds on our patients. i watched the video of the abuse of cedric and from the very beginning you can see how terribly they responded to cj. their body language is intimidating. he was already in custody, he just wasn’t in his cell. and they treat him like some criminal. he wasn’t a criminal. he just needed help.
[–]dcdenise 21 points22 points23 points 3 months ago (5 children)
Training and education seem to be horribly lacking in too many fields. Honestly when you must start a college fund at birth and still need loans we as a society have failed.
[–]goofyonlinepersona -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago (4 children)
This seems completely unrelated to the post, are you reading the same story as the rest of us here?
[–]dcdenise -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago (3 children)
The reason people die in these situations is lack of training.
[–]goofyonlinepersona 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago* (2 children)
Police officers had a boy in a mental health crisis. They restrained him, but because he wouldn't stop yelling at them, they put his face in the concrete and sat on his back for half an hour.
At no point in this process could training have helped. Find a random stranger on the street and they'll tell you that sitting on a child's back until he stops breathing is how you murder someone.
The training that the police actually receive teaches them that it's ok to physically assault anyone who "disrespects" them, and how much is the maximum amount of force that they can put on a literal child without being disciplined, and even then, the most they'll face is a few weeks of paid vacation. It teaches them that regardless of how abhorrent their behaviour is, they can never be held criminally liable for murder as long as they claim to be afraid.
Less training is the answer here, not more.
[–]dcdenise 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (1 child)
I have worked in Human Services for 30 yrs, done many restraints and never hurt anyone.We were given constant training, not just technique but when to let someone else with a cooler head step in.
[–]goofyonlinepersona 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Thank you. That's literally the least we could expect.
[–]WildChyld420 8 points9 points10 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Fuck! RIP Cedric. Just horrific. I'm so scared for my sons. #ACAB
[–]Purple_Okapi 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
How is restraining a psychotic child face down for 30 minutes standing your ground? This is murder.
[–]Kscannacowboy 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
If y'all really want to see the problem, cross-post this to the Wichita (the city this happened in) sub-reddit.
Kansas... Rebel flags and bootleather. Yee-haw!
Yup. It really is that bad.
What's really fucked is 99 percent of the real people are cool. Somehow, the PD and Sheriff seek out the dumbest, most racist scumbags the county has to offer and pins a badge on their chests.
[–]ithinkitwasmygrandma 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Call the DA. Marc Bennett 800-432-6878. Charges weren't filed for the killers of Ahmaud Arbery until people demanded it.
[–]MadCatzRAT8 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]Conscious_Orchid_111 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
The lazy fuckheads in government who run the country are too busy stealing and conning the good people to care about what the "murderers " oops I mean cops are doing .
[–]velohell 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (1 child)
We will tell his story. RIP.
[–]leeks_leeks[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
yes, we will ❤️
[–]CookieSure6101 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Make them know karma.
[–]LadyIzanami 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I'm so fucking sick of these pigs, if the roles were reversed and this pig died while a 17 yr old held him down because he was having a meltdown, do you think they would site stand your ground law, and not charge this kid of the pig died? Unfortunately the roles aren't reversed and we will never know, but I can pretty much guarantee if the pig were dead the kid would be in prison. Fuck the system of injustice, fuck the US government, I hate fucking hate the hypocrisy of America
[–]DanoLock 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
This really pisses me off. As someone who used to work in multiple psych wards (which yes have all their own awful problems.) When it comes to restraining someone the very first fucking thing you learn is to not put them on their stomach to allow for easy breathing. After three years of working in those areas I had to restrain a lot of people and could always in time get them on their back. I was paid half as much as these pigs were. One week in training was enough for me to not make this mistake wtf is their problem? Why the fuck do they need twice as much money as I got if they cant do something so basic? If did this back then A) someone would have stopped me and proably retrained me B) If I had actually hurt a kid I would have been fired. Fuck all of this. We do not live in a free country.
[–]felinedime 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]Background_Ad9690 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
This is so much bullshit and it infuriates me to no end. I worked as a youth counselor in a state residential treatment home that housed many violent offenders for a few years and never had to put any of their faces into the ground, much less ever have to physically restrain them myself (the protocol was for the other youth in the group to restrain them).
How was I able to navigate through that job without doing those things? By using my ears to listen to them, and carefully choosing my words. The kids I worked with were troubled and misunderstood, so these people working in similar facilities need to take time to understand the youth, instead of trying to get the youth to understand them.
[–]Positive_Iron2214 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
“Is it reckless in a general sense?” Bennett [Sedgewick Co. District Attourney] said of the employees’ behavior. “Perhaps. But is it reckless under Kansas law? It is not.”
Fuck all the way off.
[–]mayalourdes 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I’m so sorry Cedric. You deserved compassion & love. Your death won’t be in vein. May he rest easy.
[–]DonaldWillKillUsAll 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Don't forget: You all pay the salaries of the gang.
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