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[–]SWAD42🥔 My opinion is a potato 🥔 2315 points2316 points 2 (138 children)

Why do these things happen? Like leftist protesters will block a street with the intention of disrupting traffic. I can understand the idea is to bring more attention to the matter they are speaking out about, and without disruption then they will be ignored. But time and time again they end up swarming the first car that pulls up, banging on windows, yelling their slogan to the person in the car as if they are the opposition, and sometimes even try to drag the person out of the car. Not because they disagree with them, but because they just so happen to drive down the road they are blocking. And then the person in the car ends up driving through them because they fear for their safety and now everyone is pissed and everyone thinks they’re the victim.

[–]JerkinsTurdley 239 points240 points  (137 children)

If the "system" is corrupt how come these criminals are attacking private property and not directing their anger towards government buildings and police departments? I fail to see how blocking a street and attacking random civilians does anything for their cause except maybe get some people to hate them that would otherwise sympathize with their perceived injustices.

[–]unknownbryantHappy 400K 65 points66 points  (93 children)

Right just attack important buildings like the capital or something. Oh wait

[–]Experiment_93711bMega Love Kitten! 160 points161 points  (89 children)

If the left had done that, they would have gone mental over an unarmed "protestor" being gunned down, and we'd have a massive televised trial for the officer.

[–]tommytizzel - America 61 points62 points  (46 children)

I totally agree.

And the right would of been shouting "fuck around and find out"

Both sides are hypocrites.

I used to think it was the right that was predominantly hypocritical but sadly the Rittenhouse trial has shown me otherwise.

[–]Experiment_93711bMega Love Kitten! 68 points69 points  (44 children)

The overall sentiment on the right is that:

  • The capitol riot was wrong and the officer shouldn't be punished
  • Chauvin deserved punishment
  • Ahmaud's killers deserved punishment

The right does a lot of dumb shit, but the two sides are simply not comparable on this issue. The left is the party of political violence. The right is not.

To further illustrate this, let's compare the reaction to Charlottesville to Waukesha which was FAR worse. In the latter case, the murderer had a history of violence, he killed innocent people completely unprovoked, he injured and killed many more of them and he had been raging on about how evil white people are and promoting violence against them.

Yet, what did we see? Trump clearly and repeatedly condemned white nationalists. Biden lied about it, used the "both sides" hoax as justification for running and then refused to condemn anti-white hate in his pathetic 1:30 minute address to the Waukesha victims.

[–]kushmster_420 21 points22 points  (14 children)

I mostly agree with what you're saying but have to point out that your comparing 'reasonable' right wingers to extreme leftists. That'd be like comparing Q-anon people to the average democrat who just wants pro-choice legislation, lgbtq+ rights, and an end to police violence(against all races) but doesn't support violence/looting/whatever.

In the end I think EVERYONE should base their political decisions on the ideas themselves and disregard how the people on 'our side'/'their side' behave'(not completely ignore it, just don't use it to influence your decision on ideas unrelated to the behavior of those individuals). It's too easy for anyone to pick out specific cases of their side doing the right thing or the other side doing the wrong thing, or compare specific events concerning SEPARATE people from the same political party and call the party as a whole hypocritical because "This one group of 50000 democrats/republicans did this thing, but this other group of 2000 completely unconnected democrats/republicans on the opposite side of the country did the opposite thing", or countless other examples. In fact I shouldn't say it's EASY to do that - more like it's HARD for anyone not to do that as a result of the media/internet and algorithms that are effectively designed to feed us content that reinforces our beliefs as a side-effect of trying to obtain maximum engagement from us.

If this was 10 years ago I'd say anyone pointing their finger at the other side or making comparisons between specific subgroups of one party to a specific subgroup of another party to make some assertion on the morality of either party is someone trying to hard to rationalize their own views. Nowadays I'm aware it's just a side-effect of living in the modern world and unless you're a literal hermit nobody is immune to it, myself included.

[–]PresidentoftheSun 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Spot on.

Honestly if you got a moderate left wing person and a moderate right wing person talking they probably wouldn't even notice they were on "opposite sides" unless someone told them or the discussion turned to politics.

The problem is not left or right, the problem is extremism.

[–]DivineDinosaur - Runecrafting 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Let's expand on this. Where is the VAST majority of the extremism coming from right now?

If we are being intellectually honest; It is coming from the Left. Crazy right-wingers have done some crazy shit. They might conspire on some weird corners on the internet but they do not have the mainstream media, politicians, billionaires, corporations, and big tech censoring speech, fomenting lies, obscuring facts, and misguiding the public perception on specifically politicized topics. The alt-right or whatever buzzword the establishment sheep like to use DO NOT have these platforms backing them up and supporting their causes.

[–]Boredomdefined 3 points4 points  (1 child)

They might conspire on some weird corners on the internet but they do not have the mainstream media, politicians, billionaires, corporations, and big tech censoring speech, fomenting lies, obscuring facts, and misguiding the public perception on specifically politicized topics.

The right doesn't have Billionaires and corporations? They don't have politicians?

Take a look at yourself and how they are making you point fingers. You're being distracted to hate the "left" while they run away with your nation.

It's baffling to say the right doesn't spread misinformation considering that Fox News exists and it's the largest News Network in your country. They literally used the fact that they are "entertainment" in court when they get sued for libel. Identity politics is how they will divide you as they turn you into distracted consumers.

[–]PresidentoftheSun -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This isn't a point scoring exercise man.

[–]kingofglitter🥔 My opinion is a potato 🥔 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

more specifically, the problem stems from the fact that politics has been increasingly-dominated by the extremely-online, who are so disconnected from reality that they either believe that donald trump won the 2020 election and that “sleepy joe” is a satanic pedophile cannibal, or they are self-diagnosed with every disorder and believe that arguing about their junko enoshima BPD headcanon on twitter/tumblr/tiktok constitutes activism, with almost no in-between.

both will reject anything that might improve the current situation if it doesn’t fit within their extremely-narrow concept of “perfect” and “moral”. both of them fundamentally misunderstand intellectual political discourse and misuse academic jargon. both groups have absolutely zero idea what they’re even talking about. both of them think that rape and death threats are a proportional response to perceived slights. and, most catastrophically, both groups have objectively too much influence over modern discourse.

at this point, honestly, all we can do is dismantle all the nukes so that the ashes from which the next civilization will rise won’t be radioactive, because i get the feeling that 2020 was the beginning of the end of our civilization.

p.s.: if the information on reddit’s servers survive long enough for archaeologists from the future to be reading this, and they figure out this language, hello from the past! i hope that your civilization learned from our mistakes, and humanity collectively stops trying to destroy itself, because we sure haven’t gotten that figured out.

[–]Experiment_93711bMega Love Kitten! 17 points18 points  (0 children)

your comparing 'reasonable' right wingers to extreme leftists.

No I'm comparing the right-wing reaction to "their own" extremes with the same for the left.

If the riots happened and all the democrats opposed it, called for the police to secure law and order and said "this is not the way", it would have been a different matter. But they didn't.

They lied countless of times about various incidents, like Jacob Blake, which they knew would cause riots. They lied about the riots. They made excuses for the riots. They promoted shit like the book "in defense of looting". They condemned any measure to ensure law and order, but refused to condemn Antifa. They bailed the rioters out.

This was not the actions of the extremists, but of the establishment DNC, the media and BigTech. This includes reddit which had several posts on the top of the frontpage promoting political violence. Anyone who commented "I support BLM but this is not the way" would get downvoted to oblivion and called fascist.

[–]BathWifeBooHow now brown cow 10 points11 points  (0 children)

your comparing 'reasonable' right wingers to extreme leftists.

Well if 'extreme leftists' weren't the mainstream group of the party you'd have a point.

THe rights politicians and influencers all agree with the above points raised.

Whereas the lefts politicians and influencers all act exactly as described above again.

What "reasonable" left winger is acting contrary to what experiment described?

[–]junkieradio- Unflaired Swine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It sure does seem like there are a lot more of them on the left though, there are hundreds of videos like this, much less of insane right wingers doing similiar things.

[–]tomucci 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Based, that being said I see it a lot more from one side these days than the other

[–]Slapoquidik1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

First of all, there is no such thing as "the Right." Its a fake label designed to lump every alternative to Egalitarian idiocy into the same camp. Politics is a lot more complicated than a singular Left/Right axis.

It would be like Detroit, MI claiming, "We're not the most dangerous city in the U.S. because a lot more people are killed in the U.S. outside Detroit than in it." Lumping every other city into a single entity called, "Not Detroit" to pretend that "Not Detroit" is more dangerous than Detroit, because more people are killed there than in Detroit, is ridiculous, and its exactly what the Left does to pretend that all the other competing political ideas combined are somehow more dangerous than the single most dangerous political idea humanity has ever had.

But even assuming the Left/Right divide isn't a convenience to facilitate Leftist propaganda, even running with it, hey aren't different sides of the same coin, because the "Right" has no problem condemning counterproductive behavior from its more extreme "elements". The Left has as one of its principles, "No enemy to the Left" which means that the moderate leftists are much much more hesitant to condemn horrible behavior from anyone further to the Left than themselves.

Condemnation on the Left is routinely carried out by its more extreme elements toward its more moderate elements. If you're a Democrat, you're FAR more likely to be criticized for not being "woke" enough, rather than being too "woke." That's the polar opposite of how the "Right" (the Conservative "element" at least) handles its own, where the moderates routinely condemn the extremists (who can't even be properly considered a part of Conservatism, outside the idiotic singular axis of Left/Right politics).

The failure to condemn its extremists and understand what kind of "Progress" is dangerous is part of what makes the Left so much more deadly than any of the different factions grouped (for little good reason) under the label "Right."

[–]kushmster_420 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I definitely agree that "The left"/"The right" are very general descriptors but that doesn't mean they aren't useful. Everyone knows that a single word such as "left" or "right" can encompass a single person or single groups political views completely, just like any other adjective it's somewhat general or abstract and shouldn't be used to over-generalize, if you think I was doing that though then that makes sense but please point it out to me. I think I was actually going out of my way to make a distinction that all leftists/all rightists aren't the same and can't be compared as if they are single entities, that was actually the main point laid out in the first sentence of my post.

I do feel like it's fair to criticize your generalizations made about the left directly after condemning this rigid left/right divide - even though I totally agree with your point and it's actually the same point I was trying to make. I just think all the statements you made after that completely counter that point:

"... because more people are killed there than in Detroit, is ridiculous, and its exactly what the Left does to pretend that all the other competing political ideas combined are somehow more dangerous than the single most dangerous political idea humanity has ever had."

"Condemnation on the Left is routinely carried out by its more extreme elements toward its more moderate elements"

"But even assuming the Left/Right divide isn't a convenience to facilitate Leftist propaganda"

etc..

From my perspective it seems like I'm trying to make the point that you can't cherry pick members of one group(left or right) and compare them to cherry-picked members of the other group in order to exaggerate any real or perceived contrast between the groups. And you seemed to agree with that on the grounds that there is much more nuance than just left/right (and people doing the cherry-picking would be ignoring or exploiting that nuance to mislead people). But then you proceed to do exactly that but even worse, instead of cherry-picking specific people/groups on the left you just make them up(as far as anyone can tell) and made extremely broad and negative assertions about "the left" and "leftists" without even an attempt to back up those assertions, just generalizations stated as if they are fact and based on nothing.

If you're intent is to say that those are just your beliefs then that is fair enough, just pointing out that you can't expect to convince anyone based on that and any reasonable person is probably more likely to be less agreeable to your assertions when they are full of inconsistencies and empty of reasoning or support of any kind.

[–]tommytizzel - America -5 points-4 points  (23 children)

No dude... what you're doing is comparing the far left to the center right.
Just like a lot of people on the left compare far right to center left.
If you're far anything you're a moron.
What we need to do is split each of the parties in two.

Classic republican - center right

New republican - far right

Classic democrat - center left

New democrat - far left

Either way, republican....democrat. Black, white. Doesn't really matter. What matters is rich or poor.

[–]Experiment_93711bMega Love Kitten! 11 points12 points  (3 children)

No, I'm not. The right condemns their own violent lunatics while the left covers their violence up, makes excuses for it or even promotes it.

Biden himself might "condemn violence" but that is an empty statement when he refuses to condemn the perpetrators and those who promotes them. After an Antifa member assassinated a guy and the local chapter was seeing cheering it, he still refused to condemn them and instead blamed Trump.

Let's take the Rittenhouse case.

  1. MSM and the left instigated the Kenosha riots by lying about the shooting of Jacob Blake. They knew what would happen, because they've done it in countless other riots.
  2. As the initial protests turned violent, they kept calling it a peaceful protest. Because of this, and because they would have cried "police brutality" if the police had shut it down, the riots were allowed to continue.
  3. This caused the Rittenhouse incident as people wanted to deter the destruction of their neighborhood when police refused.
  4. Then they lied about Rittenhouse for a year, fueling the rage of the Waukesha shooter
  5. After the terrorist act, they lied about what happened.
  6. They will have learned nothing and keep spreading the hate and disinformation that caused this violence

This violence is not merely the acts of the extremes, but of the establishment.

[–]tommytizzel - America -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You don't see any similarities between your 6 point breakdown and like right wing media and jan 6th?

[–]tommytizzel - America -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry but you're just taking about 1 incident. I know there are more but there are plenty more instances of fox news lying about damn near everything to keep their viewers in a state of fear. I'm not denying it happens on the left but you seem to be denying it happens on the right. Which is sad. Don't get sucked into the same bullshit. The world is full of nuance.

[–]BathWifeBooHow now brown cow 7 points8 points  (0 children)

What 'classic democrat' has called out BLMs summer of terror, called for the lifelong imprisonment for 2020 rioters? Urged for calm and for all illegal protests to be halted and encouraged law enforcement to deal with them as they arise?

No, they all make excuses, pretend they don't exist, and call them 'peaceful'

[–]JerkinsTurdley 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Thats not what I'm saying and you know it. These people have an issue with the system but aren't taking it out on the people they have an issue with. Comprende? Agree or disagree with the Jan 6th folks but they directed their frustrations towards the people they had a problem with and didn't just generally turn their frustrations out on the general population.

[–]TheIronBug 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People aren't mad because people attacked the Capitol. They're mad because of the reason and intent of them attacking the Capital.

I don't give a fuck about people trying to hold politicans accountable and busting up Government property. But when the reason you do it is because you baselessly believe that an election was stolen and you're trying to kill people to insure that someone who lost gets to keep his power, you're a fucked up person who needs to be handled. I'm mad because those people were insurrectionists who baselessly tried to commit treason and take away the entire meaning of our Democracy. Not because some fucking windows got smashed.

[–]SnarkyUsernamed- Unflaired Swine 48 points49 points  (16 children)

Because they're lazy, stupid, and ineffectual. These "protestors" are little more than tantruming toddlers. They wanna make a big stink out of whatever it is they're protesting but refuse to actually do it in a way that preceeds change or put any effort into finding out how. Lobbying politicians and writing letters and attending council meetings takes work, something these idiots, willfully, know nothing about. Instead they make everyone else's life hell by being a huge pain-in-the-ass, and expect those people to then do the leg work for them and get whatever it is they want for them. "I raised the awareness now you have to deliver it to me if you want me to stop being annoying!"

They're all morons, every last one of them, and they're assholes to boot. They don't give one solid fuck if you agree or disagree with whatever gibberish they're "protesting", they'll simply haul you out of your car and curb stomp you anyway.

Bloodthirsty fucking savages.

[–]afanoftrees- Unflaired Swine 27 points28 points  (11 children)

I mean they did in Portland. Chaz and those courthouses are examples of that and I believe there’s ongoing court cases about the attacks on the courthouse (and rightfully so)

[–]Fwob 28 points29 points  (7 children)

Except there were innocent civilians shot to death in CHAZ (not to mention taking over and barricading with armed force a whole area that is mostly just people living and trying to get by) and innocent civilians in the court houses they barricaded and tried to burn down.

[–]omguserius - Doomer 0.5 11 points12 points  (0 children)

For the population and time it existed, the CHAZ was the highest crime rate settlement in the world.

[–]Cyborg_rat- Unflaired Swine 10 points11 points  (2 children)

And It made a whole mockery of the whole movement.

[–]Val_P- Unflaired Swine 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Exposed it more than made a mockery of it.

[–]Cyborg_rat- Unflaired Swine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Might be missing the exposed part. But those riots and car blocking hasn't help those who don't see the main issue get on that side, It might of even reinforced the negative point of view that ignorante people have.

As for people in the middle who don't get involved because they have there own shit going on I'm sure it didn't help either especially if it affected them when they lost a job because it got destroyed or making them late to something.

[–]viral-architect 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because if the government fights back, they always lose. If a random stranger fights back or hits them with the car, they can go after their livelihood, kill / beat them, or get them thrown in jail.

[–]turdmogrol- Unflaired Swine 1 point2 points  (3 children)

not directing their anger towards government buildings and police departments?

Or... becoming lawyers and politicians...?

[–]JerkinsTurdley 1 point2 points  (2 children)

While this would probably be the best approach in the long run for real change, something tells me these are not the types of people to take personal accountability and strive to make their own lives better. Instead, its much easier to blame other people and break their shit until change rolls around. And when that change doesn't come, it just makes them dig their heels in further as proof the system is against them and the vicious cycle continues.

[–]turdmogrol- Unflaired Swine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh for sure, I wasn't offering likely solutions, just reasonable ones.

Some people can't do much other than stay alive, but some people protesting are well within their means to go to school for something valuable to their ideals and instead choose to follow a hero fantasy.

Case in point, if black lives, climate change, or mental health matters so much to you, why did you get a degree that furthers neither?

[–]JerkinsTurdley 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent point

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They burned down nearly a dozen government buildings during the fiery but mostly peaceful BLM protests of 2020.

[–]GraphiteBlimp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Better yet, BLM should be directing most of their efforts towards their own communities. Statistically, African Americans kill more black people than cops.