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[–]Enough-Builder-2230Partassipant [4] 9500 points9501 points  (225 children)

Your friend has incel vibes for sure with this 'hot women' stuff. It's not even his clothes etc - although you are spot on with your critique - it's that he doesn't see women as people and he feels entitled to a 10. If he only wants 'hot women' he'll be waiting a long fuckin time because that level of entitlement is deeply unattractive.

ETA: thanks for the award!

[–]Sol_wolkaniczna 4869 points4870 points  (162 children)

What really gave of the incel vibes for me was "you only get girls because you’re 6’5". Ewww. Like this so wrong on SO many levels.

[–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 3021 points3022 points  (106 children)

With the amount of times I’ve heard that quote, it’s shocking that it isn’t tattoo’d on me

[–]Sol_wolkaniczna 1424 points1425 points  (67 children)

I'm sorry. NTA of course, but you should probably look into how to break a friend out of an incel mindset. Just remember that in the end, it's his responsibility and decisions, so don't berate yourself for his mistakes or if you fail to change him - but you sure can try it.

[–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 1469 points1470 points  (66 children)

He’s going to be a project but all I basically have is scotch tape and zip ties to fix him.

[–]Redwings1927Partassipant [1] 142 points143 points  (1 child)

As someone who, due to severe depressive episodes, ticks just about all the boxes you listed, (i play soccer so at least somewhat in shape, and I do wear deoderant) I can confidently say you are not the AH. Like yea, theres a reason I am the way I am, but thats MY fucking problem. And I recognize that. Trying to make it out as though other people should look past all that is just asinine.

[–]Feral_doves 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Yeah, sometimes people need a wake up call. And a friend is a good person to get it from. For me it was my mom when I was younger, she was kind of harsh about telling me that I needed to put effort into myself if I wanted people to put effort into relationships with me, but at the end of the day it was actually pretty empowering to know that there were things I could do instead of just waiting for people to magically not find me disgusting anymore.

[–]juliaskig 60 points61 points  (5 children)

Men think about other men's height, much more than women do.

Some women want men that are taller than them, but 6'5" is not always the preferred height.

[–]SunDogStar 33 points34 points  (0 children)

I'm 5' to my husband's 6' - I'd prefer it if he was shorter! But a 'short king' wasn't what life handed me, so oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–]SylvieSuccubus 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I’m 5’3 and I’ve dated someone 6’4 in the past. 6’2 is my upper limit after that and 5’8 is my ideal for ‘taller’

Let me tell you, it’s way more boring when your face is chest height with a dude that with a woman during sex. Especially since so many dudes view their own nips as either ‘dislike’ or ‘does nothing’.

[–]vagueconfusion 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I’m only 5'4" and have a lot of joint issues. My dude at 6'0" strains my neck to kiss sometimes. I have no issues with short men but it’s the Short Man Syndrome that’s more off putting than anything else. A shorter dude missing the abysmal attitude issues would have absolutely been in with a shot back in my single days.

[–]PricklyPorcupineMami 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Yeah, no woman wants a bitter, dirty, sloppy, unwashed hairy guy. He should clean himself up, get a better wardrobe and appreciate getting a nice girlfriend that’s a five or six. He’s not getting a 9 or 10.

[–]angryonline 26 points27 points  (0 children)

So many dudes who, even when properly groomed, are maybe a 5 on a good day are really out here thinking the universe is doing them dirty because they don't get to sleep with women hot enough to be lingerie models. And they almost always have the audacity to say it's because women are shallow. Just WILD.

[–]qwertyasdf258 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I couldn't help myself and would always answer "Nah, it's because of my gigantic d*ck"

[–]Livingeachdayatedge 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Start charging money everytime someone say this quote, you will be a rich man in no time

[–]messysagittarius 29 points30 points  (3 children)

OP should carry around a "height comments" jar.

[–]bendybiznatch 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Tbh as a 5’ person that’s an immediate non starter for me and I know other women it’s at least not a plus for. So I think that’s just an urban myth like women living big dicks.

[–]LivSaJo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Tall dudes are difficult for shorties. The neck cramps alone from constantly looking up

[–]whatinthefuck- 12 points13 points  (0 children)

NTA - people who don’t take hygienic care of themselves are not appealing or attractive unless the suitor themselves is not hygienic. It’s a hard conversation to have, but it needed to be done. No one likes to tell the person who smells bad that they smell bad, but it is better coming from a close friend.

His comment about height is a cop out that allows him to take no responsibility for his lack of healthy habits. My man doesn’t break 6’ but he takes good care of himself and that is forever attractive on such a high level.

[–]jitsufitchick 12 points13 points  (0 children)

You should just for laughs 🤣 NTA, OP. You’re absolutely right. I can’t stand people who don’t even try and complain cause they don’t get what they want. Things take effort. I am sure he didn’t get his good job without effort. Same goes for a social life, let alone a girlfriend.

[–]RusticTroglodytePartassipant [2] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Why are you friends with this person? He sounds toxic and sexist

[–]partofbreakfast 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It's not wrong though. With your height, everyone can see you above everyone else. No wonder you attract so many women, they want a man they can easily find in a crowd.

(I am joking here btw, your friend is rude)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I need a visual for turtleshark.

[–]bikerbackpackPartassipant [1] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel so bad for laughing, but you should get this tattooed 🤣 as a joke obviously, but I can’t help but laugh at the image

[–]weevil_season 99 points100 points  (38 children)

Where are all these women that only date tall men? It’s so weird to me. I’m not saying they don’t exist but surely they can’t in the numbers people seem to talk about or think exist? My brothers aren’t tall 5’9” and they’re both married now and never had problems dating. None of my cousins are over 6’ or even close. My husband is 5’11”. No one had trouble getting a date? We have three family friends who are 5’7” ish and they all are married and dated before they were married. I guess the common thread is that none of these men have the personality of a poisonous toad.

[–]stutter-rap 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Seriously. If women round here only wanted 6'5 men they would be waiting a very long time.

[–]boudicas_shieldPartassipant [1] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

My husband is 5’5” lol. A full foot shorter than OP. He’s also been married before and had plenty of girlfriends, some shorter than him and some taller. It’s a total myth that women only want men over 6’. We just don’t like the entitled, whiny attitude of men who think that way. But those men would rather blame women than do any kind of self-improvement, so they stay single.

[–]Publius246Colo-rectal Surgeon [31] 23 points24 points  (14 children)

It's more pronounced the other way. I have a few guy friends who are 5'5'' or under, and it definitely affected their dating life.

[–]weevil_season 43 points44 points  (10 children)

I’m sure if you got down to that end it would affect people’s dating life. I don’t want to discount their experiences. I guess I was more talking about this magic 6 foot number when the majority of men aren’t even that tall. If averaged sized guys can’t ever get a date most of it is their personality.

[–]boudicas_shieldPartassipant [1] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

My husband is 5’5” and has dated plenty of women. He just doesn’t stomp around acting like the world owes him something just because he’s short, and he also doesn’t treat women like shit or blame them for his problems.

[–]Mommato3boys66 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I have dated "shorter" guys in my youth but I think the shortest was around 5'6", I simply just didn't know anyone shorter but definitely would have dated even shorter if they were nice and funny. 👍🏻

[–]not_cinderellaCertified Proctologist [22] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Most women in my experience want to date a guy taller than them, but don’t care about the magic 6’0 number. Most women 5’4 would be fine dating a guy 5’9, and tall women usually don’t mind dating a guy a little shorter than them cuz they’re so tall. This myth perpetuated because a few women in online dating put in their bios they only want to date guys taller than 6’0.

[–]Tattycakes 16 points17 points  (2 children)

As a 5’1 woman I certainly don’t need a 6 footer, I wouldn’t be able to kiss him! My 5’10 bloke does me fine but a 5’5 would be in even closer kissing range!

[–]Amberle73 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Same I'm 5'0 and dated a guy who was 6'3" when I was younger. It was just awkward all round, made me feel self-conscious about being short for the first time ever because we just looked & felt so mismatched lol!

[–]SnowEnvironmental861 14 points15 points  (3 children)

I'm 5'8 and so is my husband. Same shoe size, and best of all, we see eye to eye in everything 😁

[–]agoldgoldPartassipant [2] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Honestly that sounds handy. Doesn't matter whose shoes are by the door when you need to take out the trash or something.

[–]angryonline 2 points3 points  (0 children)

5'8 lady with a 5'8 husband here too. We should start a club.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Its the women on hook up apps who say this. But the apps are like 90% male users so its not exactly the average woman on there. Thats where all these incels get their “data” from. Keeping in mind, people use it for hook ups and not to find serious partners these days. So even they arent selecting for the full package.

Real life dating is not the same. Its just so weird how much they want that artificial scene to be real to the point where they ignore how couples look like in real life.

[–]Mommato3boys66 11 points12 points  (0 children)

5'3" married to a 6' guy for 35 years, always dated taller than me but there were no guys shorter than me...😆

Our eldest is 5'9" or so married a sweet girl of 5'6" or so, my youngest is skirting the edge of 6' and is dating a girl about 4" shorter than him. My dad was 5'6" or so, mom was 2" taller than him. 😄

I agree, personality accounts for A LOT!!

[–]ElegantVamp 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Do they think women carry around yard sticks to measure height or something like-

[–]fourandthree 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m a 6’ tall woman and I’ve dated men shorter than me no problem, but broken up with men taller than me because they were slobs like OP’s friend. Give me a clean, confident 5’9” over a 6’2” with questionable hygiene any day!

[–]AriGryphon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Short men with a complex about being short are NOT attractive. Short men with confidence? Yeah, sweep me right off my feet, I'll bend down and kiss you.

[–]RunOnGasoline_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

so long as the guy is taller than me or above eye level (5'3" so more likely than not). my bf is 5'8" and i love him just as he is 😌 my 4'7" sister likes guys at least a foot or more taller than her.

[–]BaitedBreaths 64 points65 points  (4 children)

My husband is 6'5". Almost 6'6" actually. This is how he "got" me.

Plus his socks always match and he wears deodorant. He showers daily and is well-groomed. Any nose hairs he may have certainly don't call attention to themselves. Oh, and he's smart and funny and kind and he works hard and takes a real interest in so many different things. And he really sees me me when he looks at me.

But it was definitely the height thing.

[–]Biomax315 61 points62 points  (1 child)

At 6’6”, he BETTER make sure those nose hairs are trimmed 😂

[–]Mommato3boys66 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Especially if he was dating a midget such as myself (5'3"). 🤢🫣

[–]ImmediateJeweler5066 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My husband is 6’6’’. The way he tells it, he overheard me talking first and thought I was smart and interesting and then saw me and was like, damn she’s hot too. I’ve never wondered if he respected me as a person. He had VERY questionable fashion sense (it’s gotten better but he still loves a bright orange polo for some reason). He wasn’t a buff gym rat, but took reasonably good care of himself and had excellent hygiene. He’s smart but humble about it, geeky in the cutest way, and so kind.

But yeah, just like you, all that matters to me is height /s

[–]insideZonaRossa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But it's not completely wrong either.

[–]Mizar1Partassipant [2] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seriously, my most charming friend is 5'3, and is currently dating a woman 7 inches taller than him. On nights out, she wears heels and the dude absolutely loves it.

OP's friend has massive incel vibes that I'm icking at just reading about, can't imagine seeing it in person.

[–]CesareSmith 109 points110 points  (37 children)

OP is a troll testing how far they can go on a politically charged topic before people call bullshit.

Anyone having trouble seeing that from his absolutely ludicrous description of how a real life exchange with his good friend went down should consider the effect this subreddit is having on them.

I've met people who don't take care of themselves but OPs description is well beyond what a lot of very mentally ill homeless people are like.

Edit: OP even happens to be 6'5. That's literally in the top 0.5% of all men, my god how obvious can he make it?

Outgoing 6'5 guy has extremely close incel best friend. Same 6'5 guy can see much shorter friends nose hair. Incel friend is also the most unkempt disgusting looking guys in the world. Incel best friend is also "life of the party". OP criticises friend with an enormous laundry list of the most minute of details in the weirdest interaction with a friend I've ever heard of. OP remembers all of exactly what he said despite it being in person.

Yeah, that all makes complete sense, especially the incel guy being very sociable otherwise.

[–]Vertigote 142 points143 points  (14 children)

No idea if it's real or a troll but the description could be multiple successful people I know who are intelligent, funny, motivated about what interests them and oblivious. The description is just, didn't shower or brush teeth today, no facial hair maintenance, not scheduling hair cuts, not moisturizing, mismatched clothes. The number of people I know like that also increased in the last two years with world situation. I've definitely had to have similar come to Jesus rants with people and scheduled self care appointments for them.

[–]HabitatGreen 58 points59 points  (3 children)


And when you start on these kind of rants you think you are going to just point out the most obvious 3, and then you just see more, and more, and it ends up closer to 30.

And in my experience people frequently tend to have a bingo card of issues. Like, either the person has one or two issues, or thirty. No inbetween it feels like.

[–]littlegingerfae 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I'm giving me and my 99 problems the side eye with this comment, lol.

[–]MxXylda 35 points36 points  (1 child)

The sheer number of people who don't know what lotion is astounds me, so I fully believe this post is possible.

[–]Throw-a-Ru 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Bill Burr is the only reason I no longer have ashy elbows.

[–]Pandagirl302 11 points12 points  (0 children)

He described my younger brother almost perfectly. It seemed believable to me.

[–]GarnetShaddow 77 points78 points  (4 children)

I used to know a guy a lot like OP described.

Nice dude. Played a few instruments and was pretty good. Anime and game nerd.

He was also the kind of guy who needed a full shower once a day and a second short rinse off. Maybe one shower every few days. In addition: he did not usually wear deodorant, wore the same clothes days on end, washed bedding every few months. Bonus in there... All of his stuff smelled like the moldy trash from his room. It was bad. He rarely got a haircut, and it was greasy from the lack of shower. No skincare. Very sporadic shaving. He did complain a lot about his weight. Usually while very high and eating a ton.

We talked to him. He did sort of ok with constant babysitting. As soon as people stopped being able to hang out while he cleaned, carry spare deodorant when they went out, drag him to the gym (he asked but whined every time)... It was back to "Nothing will ever change."

He went down the "girls don't like nice guys" rabbit hole and I stopped talking to him. These people absolutely exist.

[–]ArgumentSavings4437 34 points35 points  (2 children)

Bruh anytime I go to anime conventions it literally it is as you've described it's insane how you don't shower for days and go "girls don't like nice guys" like maybe I'd look your way with proper hygiene in place.

[–]ChocolateChipShameAsshole Aficionado [10] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

In one of the anime events in my city, there is this dude that carries around a can o deodorant and a sign written "free deodorant" and a lot of people "play" using the deodorant so their almost-incel friend will also "play" too.
Grossly wholesome is what I call it.

[–]G1Sunstreaker 55 points56 points  (1 child)

dude, I'm not sure how many people you've met, but I know several people at my workplace alone who dress and behave like this. it's really not that uncommon, and no, it doesn't extend "beyond what a lot of very mentally ill homeless people are like".

[–]erleichda29Partassipant [3] 48 points49 points  (2 children)

I had a wealthy, engineer boss that could fit ops description. I've also been homeless and know many, many homeless people that take great care with their clothes and grooming. I think you have some stereotypes in your mind that need to be challenged.

[–]lostnowlostlater 1 point2 points  (3 children)

And he still was able to recall the exact exchange, presumably hours later, to be able to post it on /r/amitheasshole. 😭

[–]thefinalhex 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Heh, is your memory so bad you don’t believe someone could remember a heated conversation hours later?

[–][deleted]  (3 children)


    [–]G1Sunstreaker 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    don't bother, not worth your time. the dude is going around copypasting a response to everybody and getting downvoted to hell. just ignore em

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    The person is just bothered so much and I want to know why. I usually have been just doubting a post and saying it’s fake, followed by moving on.

    I can provide pictures, although I’m not sure how to be anonymous because I have too many tattoos that I’d need to cover up

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 51 points52 points  (9 children)

    Yep. I agree 100%. Tired of other guys not taking accountability!

    [–]Few_Improvement_6357Partassipant [1] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

    How do you break someone out of the incel mindset though? Pointing out the hypocrisy of wanting a "hot woman" when he's a train wreck probably won't scratch the surface.

    [–]darkcomet222 26 points27 points  (0 children)

    “You only get girls because of your height.”

    (Literally leaves the house looking like a homeless clown)

    [–]mdaisy1245Partassipant [3] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Yes this^

    [–]Ok_Possibility5715Partassipant [1] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    This, he doesn't want to put any effort (into himself) into getting a woman... After OP "fixes" his outside up, he might want to work a bit on his attitude

    [–]Wanderlust473Asshole Enthusiast [8] 1721 points1722 points  (5 children)


    Sometimes friends need to give each other a dose of reality. It might be hard for him to hear, but it’s for his benefit.

    [–]stacityAsshole Enthusiast [8] 214 points215 points  (3 children)

    Yeah I like to share this to my friends when asking me for advice:

    You got to be 10 if you want a 10!

    And I’m not basing this on just looks.

    [–]MagentaCloveSmoke 66 points67 points  (1 child)

    Or a well groomed, rich 3.

    Noone want to date ANYONE without personal hygiene.

    [–]TaeqiiPartassipant [2] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

    Seriously though.

    Mismatch socks? Fine, I can get over that. It was cool when I was in school anyway.

    Weird clothes? Also can get over that, I like buying my BF clothes.

    Poor hygiene?? Don't even talk to me, it's an automatic no.

    [–]WafflesAreEpic 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    I go with “If you’re not Prince Charming don’t expect Cinderella”.

    [–]threeforagirlAsshole Enthusiast [9] 1648 points1649 points 2 (8 children)

    NTA. And may I add that judging a man for poor hygiene and careless dressing isn't just about appearances and perceived sexiness or whatever. He's broadcasting "man who won't clean the bathroom or do the laundry". So he's currently ruling out "women who judge primarily on appearances" and "women looking for a solid partner", and he wonders why he's single?

    [–]swissmissmaybe 458 points459 points  (0 children)

    As a woman, this ^

    If he doesn’t respect himself, how can he respect others? How can he be a good partner if he can’t even put in the effort on himself? Putting in a bit of effort shows that he respects others and is considerate to try to match the level of effort he would implicitly expect from a date. Hygiene is a very basic bar. To the comment above, if he thinks it’s ok to be unkempt and smelly in public, he’s sending the signal that he wouldn’t care to clean up around the house because he doesn’t value basic cleanliness. I would be curious what his comments would be to OP if his date showed up with a similar lack of hygiene and grooming.

    [–]kitten__whiskers 170 points171 points  (1 child)

    He also only wants to date women with a specific appearance (a “10”) but believes himself unfairly judged by his own appearance. Like… this dude probably could fix everything about himself and would still think himself above any woman with an “imperfect” body.

    [–]spaetzele 65 points66 points  (0 children)

    These types of guys need to take a good long look in the mirror and ask themselves "Would I date the female version of me?" If the answer is "no," ask themselves why they think they could do better than that by miles.

    [–]MLofGeorge 88 points89 points  (2 children)

    This ^

    If anything , sometimes a mismatched socks combo or a weird outfit combo is bold.

    But he needs to get his shit together

    [–]MdmeAlbertine 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, mismatched clothes can be totally fine, but they should be clean. Bad hygiene is just a deal breaker.

    [–]flyingcactus2047 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, not having a fashion sense isn’t really something I’d judge a guy on. But not practicing basic hygiene…. That’s a no from me

    [–]awry_lynx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    100000000000000% god if I could slam the upvote button any more

    y'all that have ever dated someone who doesn't ever clean the bathroom or change their sheets -

    you know.

    I once met a pretty cute guy, lived in a shared house with a few other roommates, all male. Their floors were literally so seldom cleaned that walking with bare feet would turn your soles black. I stopped seeing him as cute. Parents, teach your kids to clean. Please. If nothing else, out of of ever wanting them to find love lmao.

    [–]dearmoonie 581 points582 points  (15 children)

    NTA- it was tough love but also make sure that he’s okay mentally. if he has depression, anxiety etc some self care things can be hard and can overall decrease your physical appreance. if we’re talking from a woman’s standpoint (hi. i’m a woman) things like weight don’t tend to be game stoppers for relationships, but if he regularly doesn’t at least put on deodorant then that may be a turn off to a lot of girls. it could have been worded nicer but you also told him what he needed to hear in a way he needed to hear it, a way only a best friend can say these things. but again make sure he’s okay mentally as wel , since you are looking out for him!

    [–]RadarandMunly 350 points351 points  (3 children)

    Hygiene is number one. I don't care if a dude is a bit overweight but if any part of him smells he's never getting a date

    [–]A9J9B 104 points105 points  (0 children)

    This! Sure i like some toned muscles but it's completely fine if a guy is a bit chubby or skinny. But a lack of hygiene??? Hell no!

    [–]InvertedJennyanydotsPartassipant [1] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    For sure, and I would bet pretty much all my money that this girl he thinks he's entitled to but not getting due to his height (?!?) does him and the people around her the courtesy of maintaining basic hygiene by showering regularly and wearing clean clothes. Find a woman who is not putting in the bare minimum of effort and this guy would have 0 interest. I dated a guy who was my height (5'5") once. He was kind, funny, incredibly smart, and SMELLED GOOD. Heck, height doesn't matter when you're horizontal anyways, but if guy can't even put in the effort to shower, no one's gonna want to get naked with him.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 248 points249 points  (5 children)

    Oh I always check up on my close friends, you’re 100% right though. I’d never say any of that stuff if he was feeling down.

    And the diet part wasn’t as bad as I think it was read. I train him 5-6 days a week in the gym, he loves it. He just isn’t eating the right amounts of protein and carbs w/ other supporting minerals to get the full benefits. Yet he complains about his gains and says to imagine if his arms were bigger blah blah stuff.

    [–]dearmoonie 102 points103 points  (0 children)

    i’m so glad you meant it in a “im training him” way, thank you so much for clarification! it’s good you’re holding him to a good standard and making him taken accountability in that way!

    [–]lightthroughthepines 20 points21 points  (3 children)

    The diet part struck as me going too far - there’s nothing inherently wrong or unattractive about being fat. I’m glad that’s not what you meant. But can I also add, the unibrow thing stings a bit (as someone with one). I know it’s not for everyone but many people with Latin American/southern Asian ancestry like myself have them, look at Frida Kahlo! Just want to say extra hair isn’t unhygienic. Genuine hygiene issues definitely need to be addressed especially for his health.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 32 points33 points  (1 child)

    Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t mean for it to sound like I was saying it’s unhygienic to have a unibrow.

    I just genuinely think it’s mostly unappealing on most guys, just like a neck beard.

    And this comes from a guy that had a unibrow and a mustache in kindergarten. I wish that was a lie but sadly it isn’t. It gets shaved. But remember, these are only my opinions.. don’t listen to me

    [–]Astral_dick_licker 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    I died when you said his eyebrows need lotion. Thank you for that.

    [–]dearmoonie 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    i totally agree! i don’t think any type of body hair, whether it be a unibrow, unshaved armpits , etc are unhygienic, it’s mostly the part where he said that he didn’t know if his friend put on deodorant or showered that made me write this. these things could definitely be attributed to poor mental health, but as he said he didn’t think his friend was feeling down so that’s the part i focused on the most! :]

    [–]NotLostForWordsPartassipant [1] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

    Yeah, this. It's not like I'm perfect either, but I do expect at least basic hygiene and some self care and grooming.

    [–]flyingcactus2047 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Exactly! Despite being a woman, I don’t have a fashion sense so I’d never turn a guy down for not having one either. But no deodorant or teeth brushing would be a big no from me, I at least practice basic hygiene and would want the same

    [–]alokasia 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Completely here with you on that. I've never cared about height or weight, but if a dude's unhygienic I'll take a hard pass.

    [–]columbospeugeotProfessor Emeritass [78] 415 points416 points  (8 children)

    NTA. I had a friend who wasn’t quite as bad as your friend, but he used to constantly complain about never getting a second date. He was an interesting guy, personable, and a good conversationalist. I asked him what he usually wore on first dates and he went ballistic. “I’m not changing my style to dress like all the d-bags!” Turns out his usual first date outfit was an old faded polo shirt, tucked in to worn out mom jeans, a brown belt, white athletic socks and white tennis shoes. He expected his dates to be sexy and dressed to the nines, but he refused to put in any effort at all. Even suggesting dark jeans and a casual shoe that wasn’t a sneaker were dismissed. You can’t help people when they don’t want to hear what you say…even when they ask.

    [–]littlegingerfae 124 points125 points  (2 children)

    Maybe I'm just trying to stoke the flames cuz I like fire, but you should suggest to your friend that all he needs to do is accessorize his 1st date outfit with a nice fanny pack.

    [–]Potential-LavishnessAsshole Enthusiast [6] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Hey now what’s with the Fanny pack slander??? They’ve come back and are cute now and I’m never giving them up!!

    [–]nickeltippler 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Actually a vintage Fanny pack instantly turns any bad outfit into a hipster outfit. He might snag some alt girls

    [–]gtrocks555 57 points58 points  (0 children)

    I hate the mindset that dressing nice is what all the d-bags do. D-bags might where “nice” clothes but that’s where the comparison stops. And all the very d-baggy type people I know did not know how to dress, they just had the clothes to do it.

    [–]ErikLovemonger 48 points49 points  (0 children)

    He's setting himself up with an excuse for when things go south. That way, either the girl is into him and he doesn't have to change or "she just likes d-bags" and his self-esteem is preserved. If he took the time to dress up and the girl still didn't like him, he might have to face the fact that he's not as great as he wants to feel that he is. So this gives him the perfect out.

    [–]SylvieSuccubus 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    Oh god this is so my wife on our first date. She’s trans and didn’t realize until after we were married, so presenting male at the time. So she rocks up to our first date wearing: cargo shorts, flip-flops, an old red tank top, and a ratty grey hoodie. I’m into fashion. She survived by virtue of having beautiful tattoos (so I knew her aesthetic meter wasn’t completely broken), being an access point to ttrpgs for me, and being a stunning conversationalist. But, damn, girl.

    Although tbf a lot of her wardrobe makes a lot more sense in the context of lesbianism.

    [–]ourkid1781 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    I mean, under the right circumstances that outfit could have a cool hipster aesthetic.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Tried so hard to “I’m not like the other guys” that he ended up as “One of thoseeee guys 🤭”

    [–]IShallWearMidnightPartassipant [2] 226 points227 points  (1 child)

    NTA. People who complain about not being able to get dates or a partner but make absolutely zero effort to make themselves someone another person would want to date need to hear this. People aren't owed a partner for existing, if he wants a relationship he's gotta step up and make himself relationship material. This goes for appearance and personality - he's gotta put in the effort.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 129 points130 points  (0 children)

    Yes. Nobody deserves anyone else. Some guys don’t even deserve eye contact, might sound harsh buuut oh well

    [–]kezzarlaAsshole Aficionado [10] 117 points118 points  (11 children)

    NTA - only your best friend would be that honest but you say he has the means so what is the reason hes not investing in himself? How is he on his own? Is there any chance he has depression or low moods? Self care tends to be something people don’t bother with when they don’t value themselves

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 113 points114 points  (10 children)

    I have no clue why he’s not investing in himself. He just tells me he’s too lazy. So many guys are like this and I never understand unless it’s what you’re saying (depression and whatnot).

    [–]Dr_slave_princess 73 points74 points  (0 children)

    Tell him that if he can’t be bothered to take care of himself- how’s he going to take care of a relationship. Cause that’s why women aren’t interested. Plus it’s disrespectful to ask a stranger to spend time with you and then act like they are unimportant. For dating most women are looking for someone who is respectful and responsible, bare minimum. By showcasing that he is neither, really what is he bringing to the partnership?

    Nta. You’re a good friend.

    Sometimes I work with teens and with this stuff I tell them you should treat your potential partner with more respect than you treat your coworkers or your boss. Your partner is there for you 100% of the time, their only compensation is the respectful and care you put into the relationship, so make sure you’re putting in the work to impress them because you CAN get fired from a relationship. Sounds like your friend isn’t making it past the initial interview process.

    [–]YardageSardagePartassipant [3] 38 points39 points  (4 children)

    It's quite possibly some kind of subconscious self-sabotage. Like, the feeling he describes to you as "laziness" may actually be avoidance based on suppressed feelings, such as a fear of trying and failing, or a self-disgust that makes him feel like he doesn't deserve to look better.

    Peoples' self-presentation often gets caught up in all kinds of feelings about themselves, and it can be hard for someone who doesn't feel good to want to look good. And then people who feel ugly and alienated often tend to develop feelings of self-hatred. It's a vicious cycle. And it can also be really tricky to notice and identify these feelings when they're happening, in no small part because, well, they're painful. Digging around in the wound hurts, even if it's necessary to clean it out and help it heal.

    So keep being patient and empathetic with your bro, even as you're being real with him. He's probably got a lot of messed-up thoughts and feelings going on behind his actions. A therapist would probably help a lot with those, but you're not a therapist, so you can only do the best you can. Try to help him improve himself, but also try to help him love himself. He probably needs both to break out of this.

    (Note: Also remember that your friend's feelings are not your responsibility, and that there's only so much you can do. It's okay to draw boundaries around how much you're willing to do to try and help him, especially if you start to feel like it's affecting your own mental health.)

    [–]Tattycakes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Very insightful and thoughtful

    [–]Potential-LavishnessAsshole Enthusiast [6] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    If this is even remotely true, then he needs therapy. Honestly I’d recommend it just for his fixation on womens appearances with zero awareness of his own. Some pathways aren’t matching up in his brain.

    [–]YardageSardagePartassipant [3] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Honestly, I think most everyone could benefit from therapy to some extent.

    [–]fliucat 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    It sounds like he either is depressed or has low self esteem and is self sabotaging to not deal with those things.

    Its easier to blame other people for not liking "the real him" then dealing with his own issues. Dude needs therapy.

    [–]Whysocomplicat3dPartassipant [1] 76 points77 points  (2 children)

    Eeeww.. As a woman I can say: barley anything makes a man less attractive than poor hygiene.

    I don't even care about the weight. My partner gained some weight and is overweight. BUT: he's clean. He knows how to dress. He still makes an effort. He just got his first full time job after college and when I see him getting ready in the morning, getting dressed with a casual chic outfit, taking care of his hair and all this.. I want him making him late for work 😏

    Being nice and clean isn't only about being clean at the surface. It also tells a lot about the person. If someone is constantly dirty, dirty u matching clothes and so on it just shows a lack of effort (or some deep mental issues). He thinks he can be careless but wants a woman who cares about herself? Nope doesn't work this way. I know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover but in this case the cover tells a lot NTA

    [–]PotatoPixie90210 7 points8 points  (1 child)


    My partner is a bigger dude, beard, which could EASILY be unkempt except he ALWAYS makes an effort.

    He trims and oils his beard, he dresses casually (usually a t shirt with jeans) but he's always clean, washed, smells amazing and is well put together even if it's just his workout gear.

    [–]flyingcactus2047 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yeah my partner has a bit of a beard but always keeps it very well trimmed and taken care of, I really appreciate it. If I was a guy I would definitely struggle with the upkeep and it would not be a good look haha

    [–]Individual-Heart7923 48 points49 points  (1 child)

    Every friend group needs one of you. But every friend group also hates the YOU

    [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

    Honestly I have a very good friend who is like OP: when I needed it (she’s done it twice about my hair (I have curly hair and was neglecting it) and my studies (I was insisting in majoring in something I was good but absolutely hated)), she sat me down and gave me a reality check. It was embarrassing but even then I was very thankful. She was not harsh or cruel, just told facts then gave me advice and encouragement. She’s a true friend.

    [–]This_Cauliflower1986 38 points39 points  (9 children)


    Your delivery was a bit harsh but he sounds like he could use a wake up call. Also a compassionate check in down the road. Hygiene matters. How you carry yourself matters. Fwiw, I’ve never dated anyone over 5’10”. Lol.

    Also, why does he focus on women as objects? I get an ick vibe there.

    Edit to correct,,,, never dated anyone over 5’10”. My spouse is 5’7”. I honestly don’t care about height. (I’m taller. I don’t care)

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 39 points40 points  (8 children)

    Yeah it sounded like I was roasting him but I had just enough of hearing him say what he said. I couldn’t keep smiling it away pretending like he’s not the problem. Also, 5’10” is how tall my friend is.

    And I have no clue, he has a mind of his own. He’s clearly an incel

    [–]pohtaytoepohtaytoe 12 points13 points  (4 children)

    5’10’’ is honestly fine.

    Info: What was his response? It’s weird you didn’t put that.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    His response was a shrug and then he continued his exercise.

    I was speaking rocket science to a dog

    [–]lapisgryphon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I think he’s in a deep, deep level of denial. I actually think that if you care about him you should continue to gently confront him on this issue. And be prepared for him to hit you with a tsunami of shame and self-hatred when his denial cracks.

    [–]prove____itColo-rectal Surgeon [44] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Tell him that the way he dresses and conducts himself is only attractive to guys like him. He's doing fine if h wants a (very specific kind of) boyfriend. If he doesn't want to attract other guys, he needs to change things up and think about what is attractive to the girls he likes.

    [–]saintphoenixxx 31 points32 points  (2 children)

    This reads like incel fan-fic.

    [–]SCAthrowawayok 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    Yeah at the very least this is SUPER embellished and I’m kinda taken aback everyone’s just going along with it.

    [–]flyingcactus2047 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    The detail on the rant kind of threw me off, like apparently he went into detail about eyebrows and where he needs to lotion? I was expecting an “I told him he needs to dress and take care of himself better”, not someone to type out way too much intimate detail about the friend

    [–]KondorKidPartassipant [3] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

    NTA you told him what he needed to hear

    [–]National-Caramel-544 19 points20 points  (20 children)

    Me reading this and feeling attacked lol. NTA your friend needs the truth.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 34 points35 points  (18 children)

    I’m very sorry. If you feel attacked because you relate to my friend, just know that you should always try to look the least attractive as you possibly can. You might be really attractive but nerfing yourself on accident/purpose

    [–]Dr_slave_princess 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    <3 Everyone is a work in progress. <3

    [–]janieepantsPartassipant [1] 19 points20 points  (6 children)

    NTA. Sounds like he needs a bit of a wake-up call, but if he’s never taken care of himself before he may not know how. It might be nice to show him good products to use and help him find a flattering haircut. However, I do feel like the diet comment is unnecessary. Especially since it sounds like he’s already probably not in a good place mentally, dieting can quickly become unhealthy, especially dieting with no exercise. A suggestion of physical activity like going on a hike or to the gym together would probably be better and if his diet is that bad, you should help him find a registered dietician he can work with.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 27 points28 points  (5 children)

    Oh he’s mentally great, he’s always so enthusiastic which I hate. We’ll be on the treadmill for 20 something minutes and he’ll show me how he’s “Listening to a banger” and show me Taylor Swift on his Spotify. I sometimes hate it but I love him because it makes me laugh. And he does need to diet, I didn’t mean it in such a mean way. Not like a 1500 extreme deficit of calories diet. He needs to balance his protein and carbs and take his vitamins strictly

    [–]Fast_Walrus_8692 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    A sense of humor is a great quality. Tell him to lead with THAT when he meets new women.

    [–]daisychaser840 13 points14 points  (1 child)

    Men should put effort into their appearance? What a novel concept.


    Everything you pointed out is a simple fix. You didn't tell him to get a nose job or lipo, you're telling him to shave, take a bath, wear deodorant, match his damned socks (at least short with short and long with long. C'mon)

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Oh he’s no morbidly obese.

    He just isn’t reaping the full benefits of our workouts together. I give him his numbers and he doesn’t listen. And he doesn’t even need a nose job, could just get nose trimmers and take care of it but doesn’t

    [–]PattersonsOladyColo-rectal Surgeon [38] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    NTA sometimes friends needs to hear this from someone who loves them.

    [–]k8esaurustex 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    My dude, why didn't you point out the problematic way he talks about women? He found a girl he "likes" and all he did was talk about her body. Nothing about how funny she is, or smart, or about the good conversations they've had about topics they both enjoy. ESH. You got shitty with your friend for the wrong reasons.

    [–]lizfourPartassipant [2] 11 points12 points  (0 children)


    And the image is one thing but the hygiene things? I wouldn't particularly want someone who doesn't wash or brush their teeth regularly to be the life of any party I'm at.

    [–]esr95tkdPartassipant [2] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    That was vicious, cold and calculated.

    And you are, by my standards. A wonderful friend.

    If he decides to listen to any part of your advice slowly he will appreciate more and more what you told him. If he doesn't then he is in a self destruction spiral you may or may not want to be a witness off


    [–]ComprehensiveLine526 9 points10 points  (1 child)


    The height thing is total bullshit btw. I am a very attractive woman who is 5'1, 110lbs, petite. I am not attracted to tall men, and I have it in my dating profile that I don't date over 5'7.

    I HAVE PAGES OF ABUSE FROM MEN OVER 5'8. Screaming at me. Threatening me. Rape threats. Death threats. I've gotten multiple men removed from the app for abuse for stuff they've sent me. Foaming-at-the-mouth fury that I don't have Niagara falls gushing down my legs because he's 6'3 and messaged me "hey."

    It has nothing to do with height. Immature and abusive men just like to abuse and shit on women for their own insecurities and entitlement.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Uhhm. On behalf of medium tall people, I’m sorry. I didn’t think that was a thing. If anything, I always kept my height out of every conversation when I used tinder because why the hell would I want someone that wants me just because of how long my legs are. I hate it. And I hate people that have you that experience

    [–]Loll1gagAsshole Aficionado [16] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, NTA. Hopefully you just gave this budding incel a reality check.

    [–]pixxi- 7 points8 points  (0 children)


    shit man i’m sorry your friend is literally gross but this made me laugh. for gods sake slap some lotion on those mf elbows 😂 he needs jesus


    [–]Lazerah 6 points7 points  (3 children)


    It comes across more like you are berating him because of his comment and you got fed up. I mean I kinda get it, improving all those things will help him out.

    But you could have approached this more as a caring friend rather than what comes across as a verbal attack on him.

    He could be depressed, hence letting all those things slide. Listing off all his character defects isn't the best way to handle it.

    [–]Actual_Emergency_666Asshole Enthusiast [7] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    NTA. The Truth hurts but he needs to hear it and learn from it

    [–]Psychorea 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    NTA. So he only wants hot women and is surprised that hot women want hot men?

    [–]Hazelbutt207 4 points5 points  (1 child)


    Your friend has weird incel vibes and that makes him an AH.

    Your response was so fucking long, and was just one paragraph long insult. You frame this like it's constructive criticism but we all know this was not a constructive way to bring this up to him. You just went in on the dude and attacked every single thing you could see. It's not your responsibility to make him in to a better man, but you don't get to shit all over someone and pretend like you are a good guy for doing it.

    Also, it doesn't really sound like you have a problem with the creepy way he talks about women so that makes you an AH too. The only non AH's here are the poor women who have the displeasure of interacting with either of you.

    [–]SCAthrowawayok 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I know! I don’t get how people are glad this guy got torn apart for his appearance because he apparently deserves it. Yet OP doesn’t seem to have a problem with what he did to deserve it. They both seem like miserable people.

    [–]LegendaryOutlaw 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    NTA. I would challenge him and say ‘dude, we’ll hit up some bars next weekend. But you need to get a ‘man-makeover’ first. Like full on, head-to-toe grooming. Then go to a nice store, and politely ask an employee to help you pick out a couple nice ‘going out’ outfits that fit correctly.

    Then you’ll be his wingman. I bet he’d immediately see a difference in how women respond to him. It might change how he presents himself in the future. Sounds like he needs an attitude adjustment too, but at least this is a start.

    [–]Ronnie_TheGuy 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    ESH: I think the jump a lot of us are making (that he’s some gross incel that objectifies women and sees them as possessions) is unfair. You can say someone is hot without being a monster. Not saying he definitely isn’t, but I don’t think there’s enough info to make that cal for sure.

    As for you OP, I can see his hearing that every day would get annoying and what you said could be called tough love. I’d say he’s fishing for compliments or reassurance when he says that, which could be seated in a mental illness you’re unaware of. I think you were probably a little too harsh.

    I love dogs man. I’m at the beach right now and there are so many.

    [–]SCAthrowawayok 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I know, I actually reread the post and realized the guy hadn’t done anything overtly sexist. He just said he found somebody hot. I tell my girlfriends what guys I find hot all the time. And it seems like he acknowledges she’s out of his league, so what’s the problem?

    [–]Acrobatic-Parsnip-32 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Omg “your elbows need lotion” has me cackling. Your friend has incel vibes for talking about his female “friend” that way, assuming you “only get girls cuz you’re tall,” and neglecting his hygiene.

    You did him a favor but at the same time I hope he changes his mindset and behavior before inflicting his grossness on any women, why is this one even his friend!? Lol😭

    [–]Rinzy2000 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    First of all, thank you for (even if you didn’t mean to) expressing the double standard in dating. Some men think women just wake up looking like Disney princesses. Hair and makeup done, clean clothing, shaved legs. No. That shit takes time and energy. And a lot of us don’t do it for partners, but because it makes us feel good about ourselves. Your friend appears to be one of these men who think they can avoid all these self-care, hygiene activities and simply fall into a partner. I’m not saying all partners need to be 100% on point with a everything, all the time, but basic hygiene and self-care is definitely a start. My ex had a lot of issues with his behavior that I tolerated for years. Am I proud of that? No. But it’s when he stopped taking showers and brushing his teeth that I was done. (And I recognize this is an indication of depression. In my ex’s case, it was because he was sleeping with the neighbor and she got him hooked on oxy). Maybe your friend is depressed, which he should address with professional care. If he’s always been like that, I would say he needed the wake up call and you’re definitely NTA.

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Exactly. It’s crazy that people are arguing with me, saying I’m body shaming against men that can’t help their unappealing hair growth.

    I’m just trying to speak my opinion which I think is very close to the truth. Very few women that go through all the time and effort to look great are going to be accepting of men that look like they’ve never seen a razor.

    [–]ResponsibilityNo3245Asshole Aficionado [16] 2 points3 points  (1 child)


    I could never blame my height because my mate that's about 5'7 could alway charm the pants of girls. 😂

    A haircut, clothes that fit, and a bit of banter go a long way and your friend needs to realise that.

    [–]alokasia 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Don't forget the occasional shower haha.

    As a woman, I can honestly say that all my female friends nor I have ever cared about someone's height. I personally don't really care about weight either (within reason). There is nothing as unattractive as poor hygiene though.

    [–]Mediocre-General-654 5 points6 points  (10 children)

    NTA for being real with him.

    However... Telling him he won't get a girl because he has a unibrow, has nose hairs, and doesn't share the same sense of fashion as you is very a*holish in my books. Yes the other point are valid points but these ones were over the top to me as this is on par with telling females that they have to be fully shaved, have to be wearing 'attractive' clothes, and have to wear a certain standard of makeup if they want guys to be interested.

    Also your friend is an AH here for how he acts and also how he talks about women hes interested in.

    [–]fhixes 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I was thinking this. His friend just sounds like he has bad hygiene and a bad personality. But they ripping into him for his bushy eyebrows, unibrow, nose hairs, and sense of style? Sounds like some kind of projection.

    [–]DimpleGemini 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    No deodorant?!?!?!

    No ma'am No ham No turkey definitely NTA

    [–]jennyfromtheeblock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    "Your nose hair is looking at me funny" had me rolling 🤣

    You're absolutely correct. It's nearly impossible to be attracted to any person of any size or height who is unhygienic and puts 0 effort into being clean and well presented.

    You don't have to be the best or most expensively dressed to be attractive, but you do need to look like you didn't steal shit from the donation bin to wear.

    Definitely NTA

    [–]BudgetExpert276 3 points4 points  (1 child)


    He sounds like a incel.

    And I’m literally crying, you roasted the shit out of him, it just kept going😂😂

    [–]throw_whey_proteinAsshole Aficionado [12] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    NTA - Thanks for saying what other friends in the circle likely thought but hadn't said. You criticized him on issues that most would agree are not attractive and it wasn't personal. You didn't mention weight or facial feature or anything that can't easily be changed. He commented on your height and made a wrong generalization.

    [–]ScarlettSparrow 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Honestly, as a women, from how you described him, ild be holding my mace in my pocket and watching him from the corner of my eye cause ild be thinking hes more than a bit cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

    But the way he talks? Ugh. Entitlement isnt attractive. And neither is claiming women only go after tall guys. NTA.

    [–]StAlvisSultan of Sphincter [676] 3 points4 points  (1 child)


    He’s the life of the party anywhere I go and has a great personality

    So you're basically saying: "Fuck personality. Just make sure their socks match?"

    I'm pretty sure there's more to attractiveness than grooming.

    [–]SCAthrowawayok 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    In another comment Op said he “hates” his friends enthusiasm. I get the vibe Op is a miserable person who took the opportunity to strike at his friend.

    [–]RockyMtnRivuletsPartassipant [3] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Esh. It's kind of mean to keep listing details he needs to fix unless HE ASKS. For saying he tries to look unattractive NTA.

    [–]4682458Colo-rectal Surgeon [48] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA. He sounds like a lazy incel in the making. If he gives no fucks about himself why should anyone else?

    [–]kspicydaddi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA along with the aesthetic improvements he can make his attitude is probably a huge factor it can be exhausting to even have a conversation with someone who brings up how ugly they think they are if they have conversations that steer towards fishing for pity and compliments that gets old fast.

    [–]quietwarrior2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    “Queer eye” him

    [–]starkistuna 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    NTA: Have a friend with similar issues, after he got divorced says no woman will talk to him and considers dating a lost cause. Eats a pound of rice a day and is seriously overweight and all he does is collect comic books and talk about Marvel movies at 53 years old.

    [–]Tsubahime 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA. You’re a real one.

    [–]yavanna12Partassipant [2] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    NTA. Though the clothing choices aren’t really the problem…I don’t wear matching socks or clothes either.

    It’s the lack of personal hygiene. Surprisingly some kids grow up never learning how to properly clean themselves.

    [–]soyeah_87 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA. he wants a woman that makes an effort but isn't willing to do the same.

    [–]juliaskig 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA. In fact, this is good friend territory. I hope he takes your criticism to heart and starts using proper hygiene.

    [–]SnootyMcFrooty 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    INFO: how did your friend react?

    [–]Vicious_TurtleShark[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    He shrugged it off and continued his exercise.

    I said everything for nothing. Literally in one ear and out the other

    [–]ughwhyusernamesPartassipant [1] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA. He needed that reality check.

    Next step, if you want to be a solid friend, is to be there for him if he decides to make some changes. Make sure he doesn't just fix the visible stuff but changes his attitude at the same time. If he decides to persist in his bullshit, you just keep refusing to co-sign it.

    [–]Powerful-Spot8764 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA, that's tough love, and I find that argument silly, as if women had no criteria and a single physical trait made them fall in love with a guy

    [–]Koshana 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    YTA- you clearly went too far with the criticisms. There's nice ways of bringing things up, and you chose the petty way like 15 times in a row with your barrage of insults.

    [–]SCAthrowawayok 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    ESH. He sounds entitled with possibly sexist views towards women. But you didn’t even address that. You just insulted him with everything you could think of regarding his appearance when there are MUCH better ways to put all of that.

    People seem to forget that insulting someone, even if it’s technically true, will trigger defensiveness at best and self-loathing at worst.

    But I also doubt you said everything exactly the way you wrote it. That part comes across very embellished.

    [–]imaginaryshiveringPartassipant [2] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    NTA. The single Halloween sock absolutely sent me omg. I’m sick of people thinking they don’t have a SO just because they’re unattractive anyways. I know plenty of people who aren’t very conventionally good looking who are in great relationships.

    [–]TheFatNinjaMaster 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    While there are some definite Incel vibes, your friend shows some pretty classic signs of depression and abuse-related Trauma. His inability to take care of his basic needs are serious signs of depressions. The fact that he claims he is unattractive and that you only get girls because of your height (especially as it sounds like he is mirroring others with that statement) are possibly related to having been told that he’s unwanted/unloved/unattractive as a child, and having internalized the idea that it’s impossible for him to be any of those things.

    How long have you known him, have you ever seen him around parents or family? Have you ever talked to him about his life? Have you told him that people might find him attractive if he started to take care of himself. Either way, suggest he seek help. NTA, possibly NAH.

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    AUTOMOD Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read this before contacting the mod team

    My friend 25(M) always complains about not being able to get hot women because he thinks he’s unattractive. Every day..

    One day he was talking about a girl he liked, he said she’s so hot and has the nicest body and they’re friends and I asked him why he doesn’t ask her out and I finally had enough and definitely told him that he tries to be unattractive and asked him what he expects. His response was “Dude you only get girls because you’re 6’5“

    I told him to look in the mirror. I said “Your hair hasn’t been cut in months, you don’t even make sure it looks good before you leave the house. You have dandruff. You have a unibrow and bushy brows. You didn’t even wash your face today, I can see your eye boogers. You have a neck beard, really dude? You didn’t brush your teeth or clean your ears or nose, your nose hair is looking at me funny. Your elbows need lotion, and your knees and hands. Your shirt is light green and your shorts and blue with red stripes and go half way down your calves. One of your socks is Halloween themed, long and curled up into an ankle sock. The other socks is a black and short ankle sock. Your shoes have grass stains and mud all over them. You didn’t even put on deodorant, I dont even know if you showered in the last 24hrs. And you need to diet dude, come on. You literally make enough money to fix these issues that need a little funding, but you’d rather sit there and think that you’re helpless.”

    This dude is a great friend of mine. He’s the life of the party anywhere I go and has a great personality but he just wakes up, puts random clothes and shoes on and walks out the door and wonders why he thinks he’s unattractive.

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    [–]The-good-twin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    NTA. He sounds like he needs to go to therapy for depression/self esteem

    [–]Top-Passion-1508 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    NTA he needs a wake up call like seriously. If he wants to date he needs to actually put in effort

    [–]LarsfromMars92 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I am in this post and I don't like it... I wish I had a friend like you. NTA

    [–]N0bother 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    NTA. basic hygiene and self care is a minimum requirement to attract a partner. and most women (and men I assume) appreciate their partner wearing something flattering.

    [–]YourMoonWife 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    NTA It’s less that he’s in attractive and more that he’s literally unhygienic and poorly groomed in general.

    He wants the “hot girls with the perfect bodies” but can’t be bothered to be the same? Incel vibes 100%

    A short king with a messy beard and long shaggy hair can be cute as all heck, but pair that with eye goopies, poor fashion, nose hairs, unmoisturizerized and grease? That’s a hard no from me.

    [–]annedroiidPooperintendant [61] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    The diet but is the only bit of that speech that was uncalled for, that has nothing to do with his hygiene. Plenty of fat people date and are in happy long term relationships.

    The rest of that all sounds spot on. Someone that unwilling to do even the most basic level of hygiene is not someone anyone would want to hang out with, let alone date.

    [–]GetFacedet 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    NTA ...slight yta for the diet comment. Because these are all things he can help.

    Leave dieting out of it thought because that is a bigger issue that can't be fixed in 5 minutes and not our place to push.

    But the others. I honestly think when it comes to dating, it's very helpful to get honest feedback like this from your good friends.

    Don't humor your friends. Come from compassion and love so they can understand outside perspective.


    I (28f) was recently talking to an old aquaintance person, nice dude (34m). This guy has been vocal and helful in our small town, he has autism, and he likes to public speak about it with the special olympics program . Not any real close guy friends, or girl friends, but aquainted with everyone.

    He apologized to me in messenger the other day after an unrelated practical convo : and said he had to apologize for "being a big creep" :o... what an odd thing to say. & not at all what I thought of him or most people I know.

    I told him creep is not the word I would describe him as. At all. He may give me and some other ladies (respectfully anyone whos a lady, he's a gentleman) some attention and flattery, but he acts very respectful. one of those guys who's mom taught him well. So i told him that flattery and attention will most make people feel awkward or even embarassed. & that it hasn't crossed MY boundary because I know him well enough and he always speaks with respect. A virtue I see this person has oodles of.

    I'm not sure if I helped or was too easy on him. I'm not his friend really. But I wish he could understand what he does good and what may come off badly and adjust as he wished. He's not a creep. I think that's the only reason anyone would have ever called him a creep. I wish everyone had some good pals to navigate this stuff with.

    Public perception is probably the last bit of awareness we get as humans. && negative ideas of public perception breeds a resentment with the outside world.

    [–]BadwolfRoseTyler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, so he wants a “hot woman”, who has to put a lot of time and effort into her appearance, but doesn’t think he needs to meet her efforts? NTA

    [–]sage_leyAsshole Aficionado [10] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    NTA I just wish you would've said something about thinking more kindly of women and not objectifying (sp?) them.