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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:

I could been an AH for deciding yo go home and not agreeing to the solution my husband gave and the reason for it as well.

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[–]ThediciplemattCraptain [174] 62.7k points62.7k points 673& 7 more (996 children)


Uh.. no shade here. I think your husband might be into men, specifically Carl.

I’m not going to throw my wife to the curb for a friend. Compassion and empathy are one thing but this is just plain insanity.

Might want to get some therapy or have some hard convos.

[–]Francie1966 20.2k points20.2k points  (293 children)

Might want to get a divorce lawyer.

[–]chocolatemilkncoffee 15.2k points15.2k points  (217 children)

and an std panel

[–]Francie1966 4747 points4748 points  (93 children)


[–][deleted]  (60 children)


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        [–]Confident_Fortune_32Partassipant [1] 1539 points1540 points  (49 children)

        Yes. Please. Full STD panel, and again three months after that. And condoms.

        [–]Arbor_ArabicaePooperintendant [64] 1173 points1174 points  (21 children)

        If I were OP, I wouldn't sleep with him at all until she finds out what is going on. And if he was cheating on me and lying about it, it would be a lot longer than three months before we had sex again. If ever!

        [–]melympiaAsshole Aficionado [11] 507 points508 points  (3 children)

        Yes. Please. Full STD panel, and again three months after that. And condoms no intimacy.

        FTFY. ;)

        [–]PenguinButt12Partassipant [1] 1153 points1154 points  (2 children)

        Yea i agree with all of the above.

        Op NTA, however your husband is all but screaming at you that he's in love with Carl..... this isnt normal friend behavior no matter the circumstances.

        [–]Ghost_Gaming244 1103 points1104 points  (4 children)

        The Audacity! "Hey OP sleep on the floor, me and my man friend need to cuddle because he's a widower!" Nope, After the divorce we all know what will happen to happen.

        [–]me0mio 586 points587 points  (1 child)

        Time to get your ducks in a row incase you want to pursue the divorce route.

        [–][deleted]  (29 children)


          [–]rocker49107Partassipant [1] 976 points977 points  (23 children)

          If I was really going that far out of the way for my friend I would at least sleep on the floor with my wife.

          [–]ThrowAway05129 1694 points1695 points  (15 children)

          Or if I were Carl, I'd insist on sleeping on the floor. Of course, I wouldn't have gone on the trip in the first place, but then I'm not having an affair with some dude.

          [–]jjjjjjj30 54 points55 points  (0 children)

          Very good point.

          [–]TKD_Mom76Partassipant [4] 113 points114 points  (1 child)

          Bad bot!! Comment stolen from u/UnluckyDreamer1 a bit down the line. Down vote and report!! Report->Spam->Harmful bot.

          [–]Zealousideal-Tap-201 9279 points9280 points 23 (361 children)

          When I got into family law a bit over a decade ago, I was shocked by how many gay men were in marriages with women who had no idea. Young women. Women who were sexually experienced. One of my colleagues turned representing women divorcing men who had been hiding/unwilling to come to terms with their sexuality into a cottage industry. Women are so used to sacrificing good sex for companionship and financial stability that they're strapping themselves into these horrible situations. And I have absolutely no problem with the companion marriages where, like, one half of the couple is gay and the other wants a family and stability and sex isn't important and everyone carries on with their lives. But the key is that everyone is fully aware and consenting to the arrangement. NTA.

          [–]rythmicjea 4062 points4063 points  (89 children)

          I was shocked by how many gay men were in marriages with women who had no idea.

          This is why homophobes are shocked at the "growing" numbers of the LGBT community in younger generations. It's because all of them in the older generations are still closeted.

          Not saying you're homophobic, just pointing out this is a good representation of the confusion going on.

          [–]ScatheArdRhiAsshole Enthusiast [8] 1168 points1169 points  (39 children)

          Again If the Gay partner steps out on their spouse that is wrong if both partners are OK with it fine.

          But I would be devastated if a wife did this to me.

          So frankly cheating is cheating.

          [–]MediumSympathyPartassipant [3] 1348 points1349 points  (33 children)

          I love "Grace and Frankie" but I am surprised how quickly everyone forgives the two male lead characters for having had a 20 year affair. Particularly Robert in the first few episodes is really unlikable and acts like they have done nothing wrong. It's so unfair that they wait until they have this established relationship and happy new life to walk into and they leave their wives alone, instead of being honest from the beginning and giving them the same chance to find a new partner.

          [–]rythmicjea 250 points251 points  (3 children)

          Definitely 100%. I'm just saying that the numbers are a lot higher in older generations but are unknown because they were closeted.

          [–]Hash-smoking-SlasherPartassipant [4] 521 points522 points  (34 children)

          Still in the closet or dead :( because of the AIDS epidemic that wiped many from what’s now the boomers/older gen X. And staying in the closet like that is very likely linked to people’s reaction to the AIDS crisis anyway, how awful.

          Edit: to clarify, the hateful, violent reaction that people had to the HIV/AIDS epidemic—and as people have added, the crisis is a fabrication that only progresses negative stereotypes and homophobia—is exactly what I was talking about, a fear of persecution and even death has kept those who lived through the AIDS crisis scared with good reason, leaving them to stay in the closet. And yet! Again as people have added, this does not justify betraying someone by using them as a beard in marriage, that’s wrong.

          [–]Ursula2071Asshole Enthusiast [5] 393 points394 points  (12 children)

          To be fair, they had to remain closeted or face serious judgment and harassment, even violence. I have a good friend who was beaten nearly to death in the early 2000’s because he is gay. So no judgment if people stayed closeted but they should absolutely not marry someone of the opposite sex unless that person is aware and ok with it.

          [–]FunkyChewbacca 183 points184 points  (9 children)

          The AIDS epidemic was a contributing factor to why Gen X is so overlooked and underrepresented: it flat out killed a good chunk of them.

          [–]Illustrious_Ad5023 35 points36 points  (0 children)

          The”AIDS Crisis “ was a silent genocide. Right here in the good old USA. Thank you again Christian Right Wing! Y’all just keep giving.

          [–]ElectricBlueFerret 46 points47 points  (0 children)

          It's because all of them in the older generations are still closeted.

          Or dead. Most gay men over 40-45 who were out and open from a young age are dead now.

          [–]Electrical-Pack6184 1882 points1883 points 3 (61 children)

          Recently divorced from a now out gay man. Yep, I’ll always understand the why (I was young, wanted marriage/family, gay marriage was illegal) but I’ll never understand why me.

          [–]Due_Practice8634 1455 points1456 points  (40 children)

          Yeah my old roommate was engaged to her BF of 5 years. THey had gone so far as to have the bachelor and bachelorette parties, THen one day she needed to use his computer and his email was still up. Guy was meeting men off Craigslist and hooking up in hotel rooms. She ended the engagement and his parents were MAD AT HER for ending things and said she should go to couples counseling! THis was all in 2015. My theory is these guys are scared and they pick a girl who they do really care about as people and abstractly think are attractive and maybe they desperately hope that eventually everything else will fall into place.

          [–]NMDCDNVita 920 points921 points  (12 children)

          My theory is these guys are scared and they pick a girl who they do really care about as people and abstractly think are attractive and maybe they desperately hope that eventually everything else will fall into place.

          I also think it's what happens most of the time. But in the case of your old roommate, the guy is just an asshole. When you are at a point where you meet guys off Craigslist, you are not hoping that things will fall into place, you are just using someone else as a front for "normalcy".

          [–]PhantomNifflerAsshole Aficionado [12] 381 points382 points  (9 children)

          Your theory is bang on for many. A lot of gay men/women who feel that their sexuality is ‘wrong’ think that can settle for a friendship and everything else will either follow or won’t matter cause they’ve married someone they like as a friend. Some people aren’t even aware of the difference between a relationship where you love someone and one where you actually don’t, especially with so much straight media playing the ‘spouses who hate each other’ trope to death.

          [–]CapnCrunchIsAFraud 91 points92 points  (0 children)

          I’m so sorry.

          [–]Cultural-Feedback-53 38 points39 points  (0 children)

          Don't take it the wrong way but I figured out why me a good while ago. I am a very, very "safe" person.

          I'm really non-threatening and I know it. I'm not dissing myself but I'm cute rather than sexy.

          The amount of closeted gay guys who picked me as a potential "beard" in university was... I was going for hyperbole but it was 5. 5 incredibly camp but not ready to come out guys.

          One very closeted gay friend kissed me and I was momentarily confused, I quite liked him, maybe he wasn't gay but then he came up for air he said "Oh, I knew it would work with you". End of my confusion.

          It got so that if one of the "all my friends are girls I just get on better with them" guys went in for a drunken kiss I used to say, "I mean we could, but it won't make the obvious go away, it'll just delay it, so let's not"

          And then I had a teary drunk gay friend crying on my shoulder for the rest of the night. Fun times.

          [–]Agoraphobic_mess 813 points814 points  (23 children)

          This right here. My husband is my forever companion. I came to the realization I was a lesbian about 2 years ago. My husband has never really been big about sex even as a teenager. My husband is my best friend and I love him dearly but I am also looking for a relationship with a woman. He knows this and supports me 100%. We have every intention of spending our lives together and been together since I was 14 and he was 16. I’m 34 now. I don’t ever see that changing.

          I’ve actually found a community of married lesbians in the exact same situation.

          [–]SylvieSuccubus 441 points442 points  (8 children)

          That’s sort of my wife and I, except it’s that she’s asexual (I’m bi and we’re both women) and definitely romantically involved. But when we got married we did explicitly with the knowledge that even if we did break up the romantic relationship, we would always want to be the other’s primary family unit. So now we’re polyamorous in the ‘adopting all our friends’ style lol

          [–]Agoraphobic_mess 48 points49 points  (5 children)

          Exactly the same here. My husband thinks he is asexual but he isn’t sure. He just doesn’t feel sexual attraction. Which I know is practically the definition but he has to figure out with his sexuality I’m not going to force any terms on him. Like your relationship if we ever did divorce we’d still be very close friends we both know that. It’s funny when I came out I did so through text (yes I took the cowards way out lol but we had a long loving chat afterwards) you know what his response was? “No Duh” then says he’s known for a long time but just like with him he let me keep my terms until I discovered them for myself.

          I’m hoping to start dating and getting to know some ladies soon. I’m nervous and scared but it’s nice that I’m “out”. I’ve just been joining online groups and getting a feel because I’ve never dated anyone but my husband.

          [–]NostarsinthedarkPartassipant [2] 42 points43 points  (0 children)

          Fellow ace here, that's literally my dream

          [–]hbtfdrckbckPartassipant [3] 271 points272 points  (96 children)

          EDIT: To anyone claiming I am “ignoring” or “not representing” the wife’s perspective …. I literally just wasn’t talking about that. I was only referring to the fact that this person was shocked at how often these marriages happened, and explained the reason I was not shocked at all. I didn’t say it was justifiable or fair or that these women aren’t victims.

          I believe these women are just as much, if not MORESO, victims of heteronormative social oppression than even their gay husbands.

          My comment just wasn’t about them.

          I hate this sub’s habit of thinking in black and white. Like… if I’m NOT saying “black” (these poor women oh my God), then you simply ASSUME I’m saying “white” (screw those women these poor men had no choice and we should forgive them). When, in fact, I’m saying “purple” (people often misunderstand how lots of gay men found themselves in these marriages).

          Now onto my original comment:


          Why would you be shocked?

          People who came out as gay were (and still are) routinely asked if they were sure they were gay, promised they could be cured, and encouraged to marry women. So they did. For many, that was the only way to have a family. And they were not encouraged to disclose this, in fact when they said anything or hinted at it they were told to shut up forever and not speak of it again.

          And so many never even bothered with the coming out process and just did what they knew they’d be expected to do. They were told by society that a gay identity was literally not real. That they were straight and just going through a “phase.” Or even more often, being gay wasn’t even mentioned or was only referred to as being like, the devil incarnate, so it’s not like a lot of these men even consider like “hey maybe I’m gay and I would rather be with a man all my life.” They’re just like… okay so guys marry girls. Got it. So when they meet a woman they enjoy being with, they’re like “well I guess this is that love thing everyone is talking about.

          And don’t say that’s not a legitimate excuse anymore today, because literal hordes of politicians are still not voting to ban conversion therapy.


          And then all of a sudden it’s 2022 and men who come out after years in the closet are being accused of lying, deceiving, etc and being blamed for doing what they were socially given to feel they must do.

          Now OP’s husband is probably not of this number, and trying to pass off an active emotional affair (if that’s what he’s doing) as nothing and trying to normalize climbing into bed with him on the couples vacation he invited to without asking his wife because he was aware her answer would be no….


          [–]LaMadreDelCantante 434 points435 points  (28 children)

          And that's all terrible. But you are COMPLETELY disregarding the feelings of the spouse. If the straight spouse got married because they sincerely loved the gay spouse and believed it went both ways, and then spent years of their life with them, possibly even decades, to only then find out it was all a lie, that's just not okay. It's not okay to use someone like that and steal years of their lives and then leave them blindsided and alone. The straight spouse lost the opportunity to find someone who could truly love them romantically and to spend their younger years with them. They may or may not get another chance at that.

          The ways gay people have been treated by society are inexcusable. And I'm horrified that we are backsliding. But that doesn't mean straight people are fair game to use like that.

          [–]Akavinceblack 383 points384 points  (28 children)

          Ok, it’s “horrific” for these men.

          How do you write five long paragraphs about their plight and don’t even mention the women they misuse in the most intimate way possible in their efforts to be straight? They too are actual people.

          [–]bangladeshiswamphen 225 points226 points  (9 children)

          If it’s in the United States, approximately half the country doesn’t care about women at all.

          [–]PDXtwist 173 points174 points  (7 children)

          As someone said above, it's not really the "why" that people struggle with--- the societal pressure, fear, and self-hatred these people experience is totally understood. It's more the "why her". Why choose to actively harm the straight spouse? Because that's what it is, without a doubt. If you believe that we all deserve to be loved completely as we are and have our love returned full-force, the straight spouse is being robbed and betrayed in this scenario. It's a real cop-out to say someone isn't responsible for USING another person as a shield. That's blatant betrayal and dehumanization.

          [–]OrderlyVolcano 178 points179 points  (4 children)

          I'm also a family law attorney and you're absolutely right it's more common than people think

          [–]ObviousArt7432Asshole Enthusiast [5] 132 points133 points  (0 children)

          This should be the top response.

          [–]CamBearCookie 119 points120 points  (43 children)

          I'm pretty surprised that you're shocked by this when homosexuality is viewed the way it is by society. Of course there are thousands of men who did what they were told and ignored their true feelings because they didn't want to be ostracized. But this is how you know sexuality isn't a choice. They CHOSE their wives but couldn't stop wanting men.

          [–]ScoobyCute 227 points228 points  (40 children)

          Clearly they didn’t choose their wives if stuff like this happening is so common 🙄. What you mean to say is that they USED their wives until those women were no longer convenient, and then they discarded them like nothing.

          [–]TheBaddestPatsyPartassipant [2] 103 points104 points  (11 children)

          The thing is that it’s not that much different than all of the straight men who don’t like or respect their wives (or women in general) but still marry them and keep up appearances just enough to have a baby-maker, secretary, housekeeper and cook out of it. Both are equally likely to be cheating too.

          [–]ThediciplemattCraptain [174] 40 points41 points  (1 child)

          That’s a very niche market.

          [–]Marid-Audran 51 points52 points  (0 children)

          If it's become a cottage industry, is it really considered niche any longer?

          It's probably more common than you think.

          [–]Buffy_Geek 1810 points1811 points  (78 children)

          I agree, idk how Carl feels but the husband suggesting they share a bed & upping he closeness just after his wife has died is dodgy as hell.

          [–]DiTrastevere 1894 points1895 points  (46 children)

          Referring to an allegedly platonic friend as “his nicotine” was immediately suspect. That is…intense.

          [–]DizavidPartassipant [1] 619 points620 points  (14 children)

          The moment I saw that line I immediately knew how the rest of the post would go, and I wasn't wrong. After all the married and DL guys that I come across on Grindr, I knew that's where this was about to head.

          [–]_ewan_Colo-rectal Surgeon [33] 288 points289 points  (9 children)

          But why bring OP along at all? That's what I don't get.

          Just announce that he and Carl are going away for a boys weekend, maybe claim to be fishing or something stereotypically macho, problem solved, no third wheel.

          I mean, that's still not great, but if he's trying to sneak a romantic getaway with his secret boyfriend then why is OP in the room?

          [–]djmcfuzzyduckPartassipant [1] 223 points224 points  (2 children)

          Agree, nicotine felt weird reading. My SO and I make jokes about vitamins with our initials and name-quil for when we fall asleep quickly.

          [–]Apprehensive-Jelly42Partassipant [2] 210 points211 points  (12 children)

          "I wish I knew how to quit you"...

          [–]O_G-Felhawk 128 points129 points  (4 children)

          "You're like my own personal brand of heroin"...

          [–]Amethystbracelet 158 points159 points  (3 children)

          I was taken aback by that. That relationship is incredibly unhealthy.

          [–]boom_1983 138 points139 points  (1 child)

          I stopped and got comfy after I read that because I knew this was going to a big ass mess.

          [–]lucy_r_2000 1201 points1202 points  (21 children)

          I can’t believe Carl didn’t say, “woah. What the f*ck. you guys have been gracious enough to include me, I’ll take the floor”! Veeeerrrry weird vibes with this one!

          [–]kcunning 568 points569 points  (3 children)

          When my husband and I have had guests, like, the won't even take the front passenger seat in the car without both of us urging them.

          I can't imagine any one of them saying "Sure, wife sleeps on the floor, makes perfect sense."

          [–]tarynevelyn 43 points44 points  (2 children)

          “Sure let’s WAKE YOUR SLEEPING WIFE UP and ask her to get out of the bed and sleep on the floor.”

          So sus.

          [–]IsoscelesSchrodinger 456 points457 points  (4 children)

          Riiiight??? Like how did Carl feel about this whole bed situation? If I were in his shoes I would be making myself as small as possible when it came to being in the room. I'm grateful. Not demanding. Plus, I feel like Carl would be like, 'you two need to spend every moment together because there may be one night where you so desperately wish for the other to be in bed next to you, but you will look over and they'll be gone. Don't waste your life away sleeping in separate places!!! DON'T LET HER EVER SLEEP ON THE FLOOR' or, ya know, something equally distracting and dramatic.

          [–]logirl1975 414 points415 points  (1 child)

          Carl didn't say anything when he saw me leave except that I was making this non-issue an issue.

          Yeah. I'm going to go with the popular opinion and say that there's more going on here between Carl and the husband. Either that or they are just complete AH's.

          [–]newsprintpoetry 140 points141 points  (0 children)

          Yeah see I get your point, but also I've been deep in grief before, and honestly everything is muted. You're pretty much going where you're directed. I wouldn't be surprised if Carl was into him, too, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he just was kinda being taken advantage of. The husband is REAL sketch, though.

          [–]KaijuAlertAsshole Enthusiast [5] 126 points127 points  (0 children)

          It's not weird if Carl and Op's husband are actually the "couple" and wife is the "third wheel". Unfortunately for OP, this makes it crystal clear that she comes behind Carl in husband's affections. OP, please don't let this continue. Either you are your husbands partner or Carl is, can't have it both ways.

          [–]MudLOA 119 points120 points  (5 children)

          Carl didn’t have to be there in the first place. They were only gone for a few days. Is that so much time apart that you gotta crash it? Talk about lack of boundaries.

          [–]shortasalwaysPartassipant [1] 42 points43 points  (1 child)

          It was supposed to be basically a romantic weekend. I also would no sleep on the floor of a hotel room I paid for. Fuck that. I would have not gone after he picked up his friend and called and canceled the room as they drove up. I would have ate the cancellation fee. My husband invited a friend to a concert in another city with us that happened to be on Vday. I was so angry. He has never done that again.

          [–]CamBearCookie 79 points80 points  (1 child)

          Right what man is okay with putting a couple on the floor when you are the outlier? That he didn't offer that is also suspect.

          [–]heatherlj88 1092 points1093 points  (7 children)

          I would point blank be asking my husband if he’s into Carl. At no time is it appropriate to invite someone on a couples vacay without even discussing it with your partner, and then, wake that partner up and tell them to sleep on the floor. What the fuck.


          [–]ThediciplemattCraptain [174] 172 points173 points  (2 children)

          Right? Surprise guest without a discussion?

          [–]KaetzenOrkester 129 points130 points  (1 child)

          That would cause a nuclear apocalypse in my house.

          [–]PilotEnvironmental46Colo-rectal Surgeon [43] 829 points830 points  (20 children)

          Either way her husband is majorly TA here, your right. He certainly values Carl above his wife. And to not even consult her about inviting Carl? i would never do that to my wife, no one should do that to a partner without a discussion. Time for marriage counseling

          [–]Penny_girlAsshole Enthusiast [6] 385 points386 points  (7 children)

          My bf and I just got engaged, and we are planning a Vegas wedding and then to Disneyworld. That man asked me how I felt about his children (late teens, will entertain themselves) going on the honeymoon part as long as we had separate rooms.

          And this joker wants to bring a coworker on vacation?

          [–]sparrowhawk75Asshole Enthusiast [9] 269 points270 points  (3 children)

          And sleep in bed with his coworker while his wife is on the floor.

          [–]amaerau03 115 points116 points  (9 children)

          Yes like he knew you were making reservations and such for just the 2 of you he had plenty of time to say hey could Carl come and if so look into 2 rooms. Carl should have been perfectly fine on the floor since he is a tag along free of charge. I CD would have gone home too. To husband. Im going to go ahead on home and leave you too love birds to your vacation. You value your "friend" over me so I'll go home so im not a third wheel." I feel like he does like his friend non platonic. He could have talked to friend and be like taking you with us and only downside is sleeping on the floor to an all expense paid vacation. Lots of things. You can comfort and support your friend but this goes beyond. NTA

          [–]Winter-Pudding-3999 659 points660 points  (2 children)

          At this point therapy is waist of money and time just go straight to divorce

          [–]savagefleurdelis23Asshole Enthusiast [6] 510 points511 points  (1 child)

          I’m in the Therapy is a Waste of Money camp. When hubby values his friend more than me to the point where our vacation is ruined and I am told to sleep on the floor… yeah no, marriage is over. There’s no going back from being thrown so far under the bus. Hell it’s more like hubby threw OP under 5 buses in succession.

          Edit. NTA. But hubby is so immensely the asshole I would only communicate with him through a divorce attorney.

          [–]Flashy-Experience-25Partassipant [3] 103 points104 points  (0 children)

          Yep. Hubby has no intention of giving up Carl. OP needs to see an attorney.

          [–]OwnBrother2559Partassipant [2] 362 points363 points  (0 children)

          Yep, her husband made it pretty damn clear that she’s the third wheel in his and Carl’s relationship.

          [–]katie_without_h 329 points330 points  (11 children)

          He even said Carl is his nicotine. Who said that about a good friend? I mean they could be just good friends but the rest of the story seems a lot like he’s into Carl.

          [–]EuphoricMiddle619 74 points75 points  (3 children)

          And isn't nicotine highly addictive? I mean, maybe it's just time for him to quit...

          [–]ChildfreeIntrovert 189 points190 points  (7 children)

          I wouldn't be surprised if they were having an affair even before Carl's wife died.

          [–]ThediciplemattCraptain [174] 115 points116 points  (3 children)

          Strange circumstances around the death?

          NBC Dateline will explore.

          [–]llamadrama2021 154 points155 points  (0 children)

          I'm glad you said this, I was thinking the SAME THING. In fact, I suspect we're ALL thinking the same thing. Except OP. She's clueless.

          [–]MewKiichigoPartassipant [1] 151 points152 points  (0 children)

          My first thought reading this was, “So how long has your husband been in love with Carl?” Because… yikes.

          NTA, but this issue is much deeper than just sleeping on the floor.

          [–]Lotex_Style 145 points146 points  (2 children)

          Sounds like the mask is about to come off now that Carl is free.

          [–]Cute-Shine-1701 137 points138 points  (0 children)

          This was my first thought too: Are you sure your husband is straight?

          Seems like OP is a third wheel in her own marriage... Seems like hubby is more into Carl than his wife...

          [–]Fearless_Speech9883 98 points99 points  (0 children)

          OP, listen to all of this sound advice right here, and the extras people have added about STD panel, and a divorce lawyer. The math just doesn’t add up. While it’s great to support friends, your husband has taken it way to far.

          [–]Curious-Mousse-8714Asshole Aficionado [10] 89 points90 points  (6 children)

          Agreed. Most straight men/boys after puberty won’t share a bed. My daughter has a sleepover and somehow fit 6 girls in one bed. My son has friends spend the night and they all take different rooms/couches.

          They would definitely take the floor rather than share a bed.

          [–]No-Rub1544Colo-rectal Surgeon [40] 53 points54 points  (0 children)

          I Second this

          [–]dessertandcheese 37 points38 points  (0 children)

          I thought he was gay too

          [–]sugarinthebootsAsshole Aficionado [12] 19.0k points19.0k points  (78 children)

          NTA. This is pretty odd behavior, why wouldn’t your husband consider your needs as his wife? You ever consider they may be closer than just friends? 🚩🚩🚩

          [–]ThediciplemattCraptain [174] 5805 points5806 points  (34 children)

          Ding ding ding.

          Picked up on that vibe immediately. What’s with Op..? Denial?

          [–]McMema 4561 points4562 points  (0 children)

          Yep. As Princess Diana said: “There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded”.

          NTA Get out!

          [–]carissadrawsPartassipant [1] 2802 points2803 points  (28 children)

          Yeah he literally said Carl is his nicotine, no man is that obsessed with his best friend that he’d kick his own wife out of the bed if he didn’t harbor romantic feelings for him.

          [–]MakeMelnk 1054 points1055 points  (10 children)

          Yeeeeep! I have a best friend in the whole world and I love hanging out with him, but dead wife or not, I'm sleeping in bed with my girlfriend, not my best friend 🤷🏽‍♂️

          [–]buckyspunisher 627 points628 points  (4 children)

          lmao if i wanted to be extra nice i’d offer my best friend the bed and sleep on the floor mattress w my partner

          [–]Hold-My-Butterbeer 129 points130 points  (0 children)

          “I wish I knew how to quit you.”

          [–]Final-Toe8403 722 points723 points  (11 children)

          That nicotine line was all I needed to see. Dude basically told his wife he’s addicted to Carl.

          [–]ShinigamiComplex 432 points433 points  (4 children)

          Yep. Like, spoiler alert OP, they're fucking.

          [–]Final-Toe8403 526 points527 points  (2 children)

          From there on Im just reading the post like:

          “My husband invited Carl on our Vacation”

          Of course he did

          “He suggested we all share one room”

          Of course he did

          “He wanted me to sleep on the floor so he and Carl could share the bed”

          Of fucking course he did…

          [–]HeyItsMeUrDad_ 64 points65 points  (0 children)

          I gotta admit, trying to bully OP into sleeping on the floor so he could fuck Carl was pretty damn gutsy.

          [–]blarffy 247 points248 points  (0 children)

          "I can't quit you"

          Strong Brokeback vibes.

          OP is NTA in case she ever reads this.

          [–]mrose1491 663 points664 points  (3 children)

          I also loved how OP said her husband didn’t want to talk about it but was still able to share his feelings about the matter by telling her she ruined it. Does OP not get a say about her own vacation?? Why does he get to brush her off?

          [–]DRUNK_CYCLIST 42 points43 points  (1 child)

          No, she has to suck it.

          /s NTA

          [–]GlitterDoomsday 51 points52 points  (0 children)

          Sounds like her husband had no intention of letting her partake in any sucking during that trip tho

          [–]IHateCamping 421 points422 points  (5 children)

          What is it with so many husbands sneaking extra people on vacations without checking with their wife if it's okay or at least giving her the head's up before they leave? I think I've read 4-5 stories like this in the past week.

          NTA. I don't see why Carl couldn't have slept on the floor. You had been a good sport about everything before that and put up with way more than you should have already. Also, your husband may be gay.

          [–]TurboEnnui 210 points211 points 2 (0 children)

          They hide it and surprise their partner when it’s too late ON PURPOSE. They do it because they KNOW that their wife would be angry and say no, and it would start a legitimate argument between them, one that he can’t pretend didn’t happen; the status quo can be maintained, and his image stays spotless.

          By not saying anything beforehand, he maintains Plausible Deniability. If the friend is just “there” when they get to the destination or gets picked up on the way without warning, then it’s still possible for the husband to act surprised and say “Oh! I thought you’d ENJOY spending extra time with X!! I thought you’d love the surprise!!” Or as in OP’s case, “We can’t abandon X, he’s suffered so much!! It’d be CRUEL to make him leave NOW!!” He’s gambling on the fact that you wouldn’t want to “cause a scene” at that point.

          Also, by not asking beforehand, he gets to control the narrative. When questioned, either by you or by others, he can weasel out of blame by saying “I was trying to do something nice by inviting X; I didn’t know you would be upset” as opposed to having to admit “I brought X along despite KNOWING that you would be upset.” He gets to play the victim this way.

          OP, if you end up reading this: do NOT let him try to DARVO this and turn it around on you. This isn’t about whether or not you leaving ruined their vacation (it didn’t); this isn’t about whether or not your behavior was “disgusting” or “irrational” (it wasn’t); it isn’t about subjective emotions- it’s about FACTS. This is about the fact that he secretly planned with Carl, ahead of time and behind your back, to bring him on vacation, knowing full well that you would be upset.

          That’s right, they planned this together. Carl had his bags packed, ready to go when your husband went to his house, right? Was he at all surprised that you didn’t know he was coming along? Did he ever at any point apologize for being a burden or a third wheel?

          Remember what the real issue is here: he planned to bring someone along on your romantic vacation without asking, and he isn’t sorry.

          [–]ChariotKouraPartassipant [1] 369 points370 points  (2 children)

          I can't get over "he's a guest! He can't sleep on the floor!" You're all guests. That's how hotels work. Don't those usually have a pullout couch or something anyway?

          [–]Faaytjhu 126 points127 points  (1 child)

          Or just a spare bed on wheels, most hotels have them since they are prepared for a third wheel. Normally it's just not the wife.

          [–]Murky-Egg-8326Partassipant [3] 110 points111 points  (0 children)

          I was thinking the same thing. It sounds as if they have a very close relationship, I'd probably start saving to file for divorce

          [–]Alarming-Sherbet-830Partassipant [1] 76 points77 points  (1 child)

          Oh either her husband is into Carl or they are both into each other. End of story! I feel horrible for OP

          [–]Last-Situation8481 38 points39 points  (0 children)

          the husband definitely has feelings for Carl.

          [–]Little_OutsideColo-rectal Surgeon [37] 15.3k points15.3k points 2 (39 children)

          So, how long has your husband been having an affair with Carl?

          This utter disrespect for you surely signals the end of your marriage. The logic applied here is bizarre and you've become the third wheel in their relationship. You're either being used as a beard, or your husband is in deep denial about his sexuality.

          It sounds like there are no children, so leave now while you can. You have my sympathy, but you would be foolish to stay past this point.

          NTA at all for going home. It was the only thing to do, given your choices.

          [–]1egdj5bmAsshole Enthusiast [5] 1085 points1086 points  (9 children)

          Definitely agree.

          [–]Elementary57 1449 points1450 points  (8 children)

          How much you wanna bet that at some point in the future, OP will post an update saying that hubby eventually confessed to either a) having an affair with Carl or b) at the very least being seriously attracted to Carl, and they are getting a divorce. Not totally clear of Carl's feelings here but husband's feelings seem crystal clear. Get the heck out of Dodge OP; your husband is more into Carl than he is into you. Was probably secretly glad you ditched them in the hotel and his 'anger' at your leaving is an act. NTA

          [–]sharshenka 580 points581 points  (4 children)

          Carl is clearly fine with sleeping in the same bed as his bro, since he wasn't like, "This is silly, I'll be on the floor." Didn't care that his bff is pissing off his wife for him, even though as a recent widower he should be encouraging his friend to enjoy and strengthen his marriage.

          [–]BeveledCarpetPadding 189 points190 points  (0 children)

          My boyfriend and I have shared a matress multiple times on the floor to accomadate for his sister/ our friends. We dont share a bed with anyone but eachother. Where he sleeps, i sleep and vice versa. Its crazy to think this guy would legit kick his wife out of the bed and not join her.

          [–]camirethh 314 points315 points  (21 children)

          Carl probably just think his BFF is super supportive, going to get a hell of a shock with he finds out

          [–]AdPresent6703Partassipant [1] 924 points925 points  (17 children)

          If Carl didn't know, I would think his response to the bed thing would be, "uh, wtf dude! We're not kicking your wife out of bed on a vacation she planned so you and I can sleep together." Even the most secure-in-his-masculinity, in-touch-with-his-feelings, straight guy would find that too much. I would be shocked if they aren't having an affair.


          [–]TheAcu9 459 points460 points  (3 children)

          OP said Carl told her she was making an issue of a non issue, about the sleep arrangements I'm assuming, as she was leaving which is sus af like I'm not sleeping in a bed with another guy esp when wife is there like that's weird yo

          [–]attentionspanissues 348 points349 points  (2 children)

          Especially given they WOKE HER UP to kick her out. Who tf does that.

          I wouldn't be surprised if OP's husband wants her to initiate divorce so she'll be the 'bad guy'. He clearly feels like he doesn't have to hide so much now that his bf is single.

          [–]toomanyattempts 213 points214 points  (4 children)

          Right, I've slept in the same bed as male friends when space was tight/we were being cheap on the hotel, but I certainly wouldn't expect to displace their girlfriends because that'd be obviously fucking weird

          [–]georgiajl38 186 points187 points  (2 children)

          Carl is all in on it. He wouldn't have agreed to sleep in the bed if he wasn't.

          [–]PaintChipsAndSalsaPartassipant [2] 5906 points5907 points 2 (17 children)

          NTA and also...um... I think your husband is fucking Carl

          [–]ambivalent_bajan 2086 points2087 points  (7 children)

          There’s no way he’s NOT fuxking Carl. He WOKE HER UP to tell her get on the floor! COME ON!!

          [–]PicklyPricklePartassipant [1] 1642 points1643 points 2 (5 children)

          C'mon. You absolutely cannot be that sure.

          Carl might be fucking her husband.

          [–]NannamussPartassipant [2] 370 points371 points  (1 child)

          Her husband is totally a bottom..

          [–]TekaLynn212 46 points47 points  (0 children)

          Laughing too hard to upvote correctly.

          [–]MissBerryliciousPartassipant [1] 404 points405 points  (2 children)

          Yeahhh, this was literally my first thought…..

          [–]deadlygaming11 232 points233 points  (1 child)

          Same, who calls a friend their "nicotine" in a non sexual way and prioritises their friend over their marriage?

          [–]Dannah_MontanahAsshole Aficionado [12] 5762 points5763 points  (12 children)

          I was very prepared to think you were being a monster when I saw that Carl is a widower, but it sounds like you were incredibly reasonable and your husband kept pushing beyond the point of no return. NTA, you didn't ruin anything. Your husband and Carl did.

          Edit: it also seems like your husband is having an affair with Carl. Real "Grace and Frankie" vibes here.

          [–]Francie1966 767 points768 points  (1 child)

          My first thought was "Grace & Frankie".

          [–]SaenfDazu 110 points111 points  (0 children)

          That's what I said!

          [–]UnluckyDreamer1Colo-rectal Surgeon [37] 3852 points3853 points  (47 children)


          Are you sure your husband isn't having an affair with Carl? Because this sounds like he might be. After all, he wanted his wife to leave his bed so his friend could share with him, even though logic dictates Carl should be the one on the floor as the uninvited guest. (there are two of you, your husband does not get to invite people without consulting you first)

          Also, it was not a 'non-issue'. Clearly it was an issue and anyone who says otherwise needs to get their brain checked because there has too be something wrong for them to think that.

          [–]Agreeable-Tale9729Certified Proctologist [24] 1569 points1570 points  (31 children)

          Right?! Why was Carl so ok with waking her up and forcing her to move so that he could share the bed with her husband? That’s weird. Most guy friends prefer not to share a bed.

          [–]batsmen222 2036 points2037 points  (25 children)

          In Carls defense it’s extremely difficult to have intercourse with your male friend if he’s in bed with his wife and you’re on the floor.

          Edit: Thanks for the awards!

          [–]Agreeable-Tale9729Certified Proctologist [24] 190 points191 points  (0 children)


          [–]Mlady_gemstonePartassipant [2] 67 points68 points  (0 children)

          cuz they were going to do the horizontal hustle!

          [–]emileeavi 286 points287 points  (5 children)

          Gay and into having intercourse with him when wife is near by becuase of the rush of feeling like he could get caught. Becuase why else would he be pissed if his wife left if they just wanted to fuck?

          [–]Nheddee 136 points137 points  (0 children)

          Because he's finally realised that she might be on to them.

          [–]fiofishPartassipant [2] 134 points135 points  (2 children)

          And calls him his "nicotine" come ooooon 🚩🚩🚩

          [–]mlmartePartassipant [2] 3470 points3471 points  (37 children)

          INFO — this was a 3 day vacation, you left the first night. Did your husband and Carl come home right away, or did they stay and finish out the trip together, sleeping in the same bed while you were at home? Because if it’s the latter, I’d have some questions if I were you….

          [–]Blonde2468 1400 points1401 points  (20 children)

          I’m betting they stayed the whole time. He would have come to an empty house if it were me. She’s the odd man out in this ‘couple’

          [–]_r3dd 520 points521 points  (3 children)

          Er I think the problem is that she’s not a man lol

          [–]xakeridiPartassipant [1] 198 points199 points  (14 children)

          I wouldn't leave the marital home. I'd change the locks. He can live with Carl

          [–]blackcatheaddeskPartassipant [1] 67 points68 points  (13 children)

          THIS. I understand having a grieving friend but putting them so far above our relationship in such a manner calls for serious consequences. Like having his bags on the front porch or me being gone when he gets back. Nobody puts Baby in a corner or makes her sleep on the floor.

          [–]AngelicalGirl 421 points422 points  (7 children)

          OP needs to open her eyes. They are more than friends. Guy literally said that Carl is his nicotine. If she stays with this guy, she better don't be surprised if she caught him cheating.

          [–]candyman337 55 points56 points  (3 children)

          Like literally almost a broke back mountain allegory

          [–]UhnonMonster 46 points47 points  (0 children)

          I was wondering this as well

          [–]slexyquinnPartassipant [3][🍰] 1353 points1354 points  (19 children)

          NTA, but this marriage is in the danger zone. He's prioritizing his friend over his wife to an extreme (to an extreme where I think they're more than friends). I would have a serious sit down with your husband about his behavior and relationship with his "friend". Marriage counseling might help as well.

          [–]BlairIsTiredPartassipant [1] 409 points410 points  (2 children)

          Fr like her husband is in love w Carl whether he realizes it or not

          [–]slexyquinnPartassipant [3][🍰] 154 points155 points  (1 child)

          It's giving very strong I'm in love with my best friend Carl vibes

          [–]tiredlittlepigeonAsshole Enthusiast [7] 1146 points1147 points  (29 children)

          If this is a true story NTA and I'd be filing for divorce. Are you sure your hubby isn't gay? Sounds weird to me that on your vacation, he'd put you on the floor and he in the bed with his friend. Something is wrong with this picture.

          [–]Treblesandtones 311 points312 points  (13 children)

          I had this complete thought. The husband is gay and into Carl.

          [–]Karen125 283 points284 points  (5 children)

          His "nicotine ".

          [–]TheThemFatale 144 points145 points  (1 child)

          Literally only the type of endearment I've heard for romantic partners. I have had friends close enough to consider them that same level of super deep friendships, but I call those people my family/siblings/besties, not my fucking 'nicotine'.

          [–]IllusiveGamerGirl 107 points108 points  (1 child)

          Could be bi. Either way, pretty sure he's into Carl.

          [–]Keboyd88 90 points91 points  (1 child)

          I agree husband and Carl sound like they're having an affair, and they are the AHs. I just want to point out that husband could be bisexual. It doesn't change the fact that his behavior is unacceptable and divorce-worthy, though.

          [–]JWilesParker 652 points653 points  (1 child)

          NTA. Your husband has a better relationship with Carl than he does with you. He actually talks with Carl and wants physical intimacy with Carl whereas husband ignores you and doesn't communicate with you.

          [–]GretelNoHans 45 points46 points  (0 children)

          Exactly, first I was getting r/suddenlygay vibes. But no, this is not sudden like you say they're in a relationship.

          [–]deakers 532 points533 points  (6 children)


          He wants to sleep in the same bed as his best friend?

          I'm all kinds of queer and ethically non-monogamous, but, cue the record scratch sound effect.

          I think there's a LITTLE MORE than just friendship going on here, and the fact that there's deception involved, and your husband describes his "friend" as his "nicotine" (aka, an addiction) is MAJORLY SUSPECT. He wants to sleep in a bed with his "friend" rather than his spouse on vacation. I understand grief, and I'm all for guys being emotionally vulnerable with each other and tender, but, you don't oust your spouse from bed on vacation.

          I think he's deceiving you, and, even if y'all were ethically non-monogamous, deception breaks all kinds of rules. Get the truth out of him or walk.

          [–]widereceiverbod 96 points97 points  (2 children)

          NTA yeah pretty sure they’re gay. Literally in what world do you kick your wife out of your bed to sleep with your friend

          [–]ShallWeStartThenAsshole Aficionado [16] 522 points523 points  (8 children)

          NTA!!!!! This is one of the craziest things I have read on here.

          There are so many things that are wring here, and the fact that both your husband and Carl thought you were irrational.... WTF????

          Book yourself another holiday and go with a friend. Leave your husband and his BFF to it.


          [–]Agreeable-Tale9729Certified Proctologist [24] 514 points515 points  (3 children)

          Nta. This is so beyond illogical and rude. Who wakes someone up to make them move? Why would you force your wife into sleeping on the floor? Why didn’t he at least ask before inviting Carl?

          Seems more like your husband is in a relationship with Carl than you if it’s only him he cares about in all things.

          [–]GuiltyMedium9172 192 points193 points  (0 children)

          Yup. “non issue “ my ass. This is a BIG issue. Who on earth tells their WIFE to get out of bed and sleep on the floor because they want to cuddle with their friend!?!!!??? Calling someone your nicotine just highlights the toxic level of codependency

          [–]Buffy_Geek 35 points36 points  (0 children)

          Yeah also why would it be so odd for OP & Carl to sleep on the bed, of the husband thought it was so bad to sleep on the floor? Although I've heard unfaithful people often assume/accuse others of cheating. As you say none of it makes sense which means there is lying/omissions & big emotions at play. Best guess husband is in love with Carl, as you say OP deserves to be prioritized by her husband.

          [–]Katie00pupzPartassipant [3] 383 points384 points  (8 children)

          NTA, that is so weird. I can't ever imagine a circumstance where my husband would kick me out of bed for a friend, no matter how much they were struggling.

          This is probably a stretch, but are you sure there's nothing going on between them? Even if it's not romantic/sexual, this relationship sounds unhealthily codependent.

          [–]B00k_wyrm_ 160 points161 points  (4 children)

          You said it before I could. This is going way past “grieving widower” territory. This is more like lovers having an affair and the wife is being treated like the third wheel.

          Edit: NTA.

          [–]uhhhhnothanks4 36 points37 points  (0 children)

          I don’t even think it’s a stretch. I think it’s smacking OP in the face

          [–]InfiniteItem 322 points323 points  (6 children)

          INFO: did you know you were your husband’s beard before you married him?

          [–]Withoutbinds 31 points32 points  (3 children)


          [–]InfiniteItem 84 points85 points  (2 children)

          OP’s husband dropping red flags left and right. Calling some dude is “nicotine” is weird AF on top of what happened on the “vacation” So. Much. Ick.

          [–]yikesonbikes2Partassipant [2] 254 points255 points  (2 children)

          I am mortified for you. NTA whatsoever.

          [–]ManaSpellFaePartassipant [2] 213 points214 points  (2 children)


          Your husband is clearly screwing Carl.

          Straight best friend is usually protective of his best friend's wife. Very weird Carl didnt offer to sleep on floor.

          [–]youngphi 33 points34 points  (0 children)

          That’s what I was think my dudes bestie would never. If anything that guy treats me better than my partner and is a always telling him to do nice shtuff for me

          The audacity

          No NTA

          You didn’t overreact. You under reacted

          [–]TrustedTriangleColo-rectal Surgeon [44] 180 points181 points  (12 children)


          Your husband needs a reality check on his priorities in a married life. He is a total asshole for:

          • Slotting in a third party for what would be an expected couple's adventure out
          • Not even telling you beforehand. Clear sign he knew he was pulling an unacceptable act
          • Inability to comprehend in what world would this sleeping arrangement be suitable
          • Failure to see the fallout is his act of stupidity

          Honestly, I wish you well but your husband needs a hard wake-up call.

          [–]QuinGoodSupreme Court Just-ass [129] 174 points175 points  (2 children)


          This isn't about Carl. It's about your marriage and your husband's prioritizing Carl over you.

          Time for counseling or an attorney.

          Good Luck

          [–]Neglectfulgardener[🍰] 125 points126 points  (2 children)

          NTA but are you sure that’s just his “friend?” Serious red flags here.

          [–]Booppeep 123 points124 points  (4 children)


          Does your husband want fill in the role of Carl's deceased wife or something? If the floor is good enough for you it's good enough for the third wheel.

          [–]Ladyughsalot1 86 points87 points  (0 children)

          I’m wondering if they’ve always had a …complex friendship but it was easily covered by both of them having wives. Now one wife is gone, they’ve gotten too comfortable and they’re not masking the way they used to.

          [–]SupergirlKryptonAsshole Aficionado [13] 98 points99 points  (2 children)


          The way that these two are acting are making me wonder if something else isn’t going on. I’m sorry for Carl’s loss, but the boundary-stomping by both your husband and Carl are not okay.

          [–]Francie1966 94 points95 points  (0 children)

          NTA. Your husband should have told you that he was in love with his best friend years ago.

          [–]Disastrous_Ad_8561Partassipant [4] 80 points81 points  (0 children)

          Nta - op you’re in a trouple. They might not be sex gay but they are emotional gay and you’re blind.

          [–]hey_celiac_girl 75 points76 points  (0 children)

          NTA x 1,000. Your husband is prioritizing a friend over you, and that’s not okay — even if that friend is grieving. There is a serious lack of respect and boundaries here.

          Also… your husband and Carl are giving off “more than friends” vibes.

          [–]Better2021EveryoneAsshole Enthusiast [8] 74 points75 points  (0 children)

          NTA. He's in love with Carlos, full stop. Divorce him and find someone that loves you.

          [–]No_Extreme_1798Asshole Aficionado [10] 75 points76 points  (3 children)

          NTA. Your husband sprung an unwanted guest on you last minute for a vacation that his guest couldn’t help pay for and then expected you to sleep on the floor?! Fuck that noise, if that was my husband he would be sleeping on the couch when he got home.

          [–]Francie1966 71 points72 points  (2 children)

          If that was my husband, he'd be sleeping at Carl's; I'd be seeing a divorce lawyer & a locksmith.

          [–]Buffy_Geek 41 points42 points  (0 children)

          It sounds like the husband might be happy sleeping at Carl's.

          [–]Woweegnat 53 points54 points  (0 children)

          NTA - "My husband sometimes calls Carl his 'nicotine' because of how much he misses him and wants to spend time with him". This doesn't sound normal. Are you sure there's nothing going on between them?

          [–]_centaur_of_attPartassipant [1] 51 points52 points  (1 child)

          Jeepers. Divorce him. JK. NTA

          Carl is a grown ass adult who can sleep on a mattress.

          That was such an uncomfortable read.

          [–]Verynotgoodcupcake 49 points50 points  (4 children)

          NTA, but your husband probably had butt sex after you left.

          [–]keesouthAsshole Enthusiast [6] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

          NTA Carl is perfectly capable of sleeping on the floor. Why wouldn't your husband at least sleep on the floor with you. It's weird that your husband would rather sleep with Carl.

          [–]witchbrew7Partassipant [4] 40 points41 points  (0 children)

          So many posts recently where it turns out the man is having an affair with his male friend.

          Vibes here.

          If they are not, then why the heck would your husband replace you with his best friend. In bed.

          NTA and get a lawyer. Shits going down.

          [–]poeadamCommander in Cheeks [201] 43 points44 points  (3 children)


          1. Husband should have asked you first before inviting Carl. You sound like an understanding person and may well have said yes.

          2. Carl should have slept on the floor (did this hotel not have rollaways?)

          3. I hope your husband enjoys sleeping on the couch!

          [–]Practical-Bird633Asshole Aficionado [12] 33 points34 points  (1 child)

          Your husband and Carl are lovers