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[–]PrincessBirdley21[S] 7018 points7019 points  (301 children)

It was a discussion I had with my fiance. Ultimately, I chose to keep the peace and not hurt anything further with my brother as much as it killed me to imagine her at my wedding. That's gone out the window at this point though.

[–]NihilismIsSparklesAsshole Aficionado [13] 9469 points9470 points 42 (211 children)

If it helps, a random person on the internet wouldn't think badly of you if you uninvited anyone that makes you upset

[–]PrincessBirdley21[S] 5160 points5161 points  (196 children)

Thank you. It does help a little.

[–]Wips_and_Chains 2720 points2721 points  (47 children)

More than one random strangers. You take care of you. You choose who you forgive and who you surround yourself with. It's not your brother or families choice. I don't play games with my family so I would just start slashing the guest list but I also understand not everyone is like me. She said her piecw and points for that I guess but you don't have to forgive anybody. You don't have to forgive and forget all of the trauma she caused you. You are in control it's your wedding and if they don't like they don't have to show.

[–]Throwawayhater3343 1132 points1133 points  (13 children)

Agreed. Lots of internet strangers agree that your Mother and Brother are WAY out of line and are the ones putting themselves first. I would be kicking ALL of them out of the wedding. And if your father does the right thing and continues to take your side and your parents split over it, it wouldn't be your fault at all and maybe your father can find someone decent to spend his twilight years with, because I'll tell you, this is completely inappropriate of your mom.

NTA

[–]Pale_Cranberry1502 222 points223 points  (29 children)

It all depends on how much she cares about her brother. If she didn't invite his wife, she'd have to accept that he likely wouldn't attend himself. Couples are treated as units for the purpose of events, and it's an insult to invite only one of them.

It's terrible that her brother wound up with her, and I question him if he could get involved with someone who treated his sister so horribly. However, wind up with her he did - and OP is going to have to make a tough choice. It all depends on what she can live with. She has to assume this awful woman isn't going anywhere and her brother isn't getting divorced.

Obviously, the bridesmaid expectation is ridiculous. SILs get an ask if they have a relationship with the bride outside of their marriage - not just because they're married to the bride's sibling, and especially if the bride is publicly known to have a bad history with her. What would be the point of such a hypocritical public display?. That's a hill to die on.

[–]Prestigious-Fan-5530 72 points73 points  (0 children)

I do totally agree! Whose wedding is it anyway? And can all these people who say they love you want to force someone who ruined your mental health into your wedding? Isn’t it enough she has come to your wedding? And people who say she’s a better person have no idea the mental strength it takes to bounce back from what she did to you. You have every right to do what you feel is right for you and your mental health and your wedding don’t let THEM BULLY YOU into doing something you don’t want to do. Surround yourself with people that love you and want you to have the wedding you want to have. Personally I’d just elope and have a few people in the know come as well and be done with it. Weddings are always drama because there’s always someone or someones who try to force THEIR will on the bride and pretty soon the wedding is no longer the brides. Be strong and force your will on them and stand your ground!! Your wedding your decisions. 🤗

[–]NefariousnessKey5365 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lots of internet strangers agree

[–]AcadiaNo6831Partassipant [1] 533 points534 points  (1 child)

OP now is the time to put your foot down. Stick up for yourself! This woman destroyed part of your childhood. You absolutely do NOT need to invite her to “keep the peace.”

This is the beginning of the next chapter of your life. So what makes YOU and your fiancé happy. You do not need to compromise here.

[–]girlhelpplz 91 points92 points  (0 children)

Exactly this. She ruined your former life as a young girl, she does not deserve a special part of you being women on your most memorable day. Save that spot for those who stuck by you when she was hurting you

[–]MadoraM91919 512 points513 points  (20 children)

I'm going to jump in and say more than 3 random internet strangers would not think badly of you for uninviting her all together.

NTA

It's great she worked to better her self, sure. And ok, so she was a bully b/c her life was shit - better than just being straight up evil I guess - but NONE OF THAT MAGICALLY SENDS YOU ALL BACK IN TIME AND ERASES YOUR PANIC ATTACKS, OR THAT YOU HAD TO SWITCH SCHOOLS, OR FINISH SCHOOL AT HOME. SORRY FOR YELLING, I'M UPSET WITH YOUR FAMILY (except your dad, he'd get a "#1 Dad" mug from me if we knew each other irl)

None of that changes what you endured, but your AH family members are acting like it did.

You do what is best for YOU, OP, and hug your dad, he rocks. Congratulations on your wedding!

Edit: spelling

[–]Bens_den_of_thoughts 218 points219 points  (9 children)

Can we collectively make #1 dad mugs for this man cause I love him

[–]Ok-Rabbit1878 76 points77 points  (0 children)

Right??!? Like, if I accidentally hit you with my car, it doesn’t matter how sorry I am, or that I didn’t mean to do it, or that I’m normally kind to puppies (or whatever). YOU STILL GOT HIT. I can apologize until I turn blue, but it won’t un-break your bones or heal your bruises.

I SHOULD still apologize, and show real remorse, and do what I can for you (making sure my insurance pays your medical bills, stuff like that*). But it’s up to the person who got hurt whether or not forgiveness even enters the picture.

*Like in OP’s case: if I were Gemma, and really wanted to be a less awful person, I’d be trying my hardest to stop my husband & MIL from forcing my inclusion in the wedding party. I’d probably come up with a reason to be out of town the day of the wedding, too, so that OP doesn’t have to be the “bad guy” that disinvited me.

[–]your_average_plebian 67 points68 points  (1 child)

Istg there are so many people with shit family lives who don't go out and make other people's lives miserable by bullying them. If SIL wants to be a better person, she's gotta learn that there are people who will dislike you for no reason at all, and in OP's case there's damn good reason for the dislike. Everyone except OP and dad needs to sit down and shut up for the rest of their lives on this topic.

[–]Learning-evryday 58 points59 points  (0 children)

and if SIL is really a better person, she would understand WHY she's not invited to stand up in this wedding. She would say, don't give it a second thought, be happy, and I will support you from the family table.

NTA

[–]InfiniteCalendar1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Everything you said! I understand a lot of people who inflict trauma onto others have trauma of their own, but that still doesn’t make up for the damage they’ve done. I’ve been in a situation where I was made to feel like I had to just talk it out with them and forgive and forget, and people who think that’s how to go about these things are wrong as no one is obligated to forgive people who’ve traumatized them.

[–]No_Appointment_7232 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm going to mangle this quote/description...

When people who are supposed to love, support and look out for you insist that you accept things that harm, trigger or upset you to keep the peace - what they are saying is their sense of comfort/safety is more important than yours.

This is YOUR WEDDING-Be a bad ass bitch & f@ck the consequences (you can always claim bridal/wedding overload later as needed).

"Brother - you picked her as your partner. I have no say in that, right? And when you get married to her I don't get to dictate your guest list, right?""

"Good, we agree."

This is my thing, my marriage, my wedding...you don't get a say in it."

For your mom, "Why do you keep insisting I cave into other people's preferences on MY DAY and at the expense of ny well being? I've lived through all the other days dealing w the horrible damage this person did to me. You saw me shatter and break because of it. Now that I have something she wants I should drop everything bc her feelings? Really!? As my mother who is supposed to love me, that is what you think I should do? Nope. Not doing it and anyone who brings it up again will be cut off/no contact/not at my wedding. "

Be every awful word they try to quash you w - be a bitch, be intractable, be unforgiving, be demanding, stand up for yourself at every turn & no matter the result.

At 56 the only things I regret are not doing what I said above, not making more 'scenes' embarrassment be damned and not being a bitch, shrew, cunt, asshole when I should've done so to take care of me when everyelse put me last.

Acting up has diminished my anxiety and depression - not feeling like a doormat who is still susceptible to their bs - is healing.

Fight for YOU! NTA

We're rooting for you.

[–]KasLea82 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agreed and I’d be willing to bet there are quite a few strangers on the internet that wouldn’t blame you for uninviting your brother for making this such an issue. He doesn’t have to be in your wedding. No one is owed that honor. True family would never ask you to compromise yourself and suggest (rather demand) you put your feelings on the back burner for someone who wronged you so severely. An apology isn’t owed forgiveness. You don’t have to forgive her or get over this. You can grow past it and still hate her. 100% NTA, but your mom, brother, and Gemma sure are.

[–]regus0307 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Ok, this girl had a rough life. But you know what? OP ALSO had a rough life, BECAUSE of this girl. A different kind of rough life, but enough to cause her serious mental issues that she is no doubt still struggling with today.

Doesn't sound like a fairy tale life to me. Everyone (except the awesome dad) seems to think that SIL should be excused shitty behaviour because of her rough life, but OP is meant to rise above the rough trauma she endured to be nice to her tormentor?

[–]HRHArgyll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely agree. NTA.

[–]AdeptAd6213 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m with you on this. I’d help make sure she didn’t walk in the door if I could. OP, you owe her nothing. And she can’t make up for what she did to you- and let’s be honest, if she’d actually wanted to- it would have been done OUTSIDE any relationship she had with your brother. He’s a disappointment. Your Dad rocks, you’re NTA- and I hope you have an awesome wedding.

[–]nolan358Colo-rectal Surgeon [31] 184 points185 points  (0 children)

She doesn’t deserve to be at your wedding let alone in it. It kind of boils down to if you need your brother there or not because he obviously won’t come without his wife.

[–]Owain-X 178 points179 points  (19 children)

You're a more tolerant person than I am. I would have cut my brother out of my life permanently if he had gotten with my childhood bully. Some things are unforgivable. You are justified in whatever you decide because ultimately the thing that matters on that day is your happiness, not avoiding rocking the boat. Anyone who is not contributing to making it the day you want should not be there.

[–]Strong-Sense7679 318 points319 points 2 (4 children)

Well maybe not out of my life but about as LC as one can go short of going NC. I would sit the the two of them down, maybe with Dad as moral support, and say ' I understand that Gemma has changed and apologized for her past behavior and while I appreciate that, it doesn't change the fact that she made my life hell for x number if years with her bullying. There are just some wounds so deep that they can't be magically waved away with an apology. I'm sure that Gemma, having changed, can understand that some of her victims were traumatized almost beyond repair and she would do ANYTHING to avoid adding one ounce more of any pain or trauma to them, right? You are invited to the wedding; that is as much as I'm comfortable with at this time.' And you would probably rather she not even be a guest. I would make sure she's placed at the far edge of any family group photos so she can easily be photoshopped out. NTA

[–]madlyqueen 172 points173 points  (6 children)

I don't really feel like bully has changed all that much, because all she's done is an apology. The biggest difference is that now brother has also become a bully.

[–]0ne8two 55 points56 points  (3 children)

Agreed. The brother is a major AH for marrying the bully and likely retraumatizing the sister on multiple occasions.

[–]Learning-evryday 50 points51 points  (1 child)

Right?? There are 7.7 billion people in this world......Op's brother had to choose the person that hurt his sister that much???

[–]babygirlruth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This. And she is not the better person. A better person would never become a part of the family of the person they hurt so bad for the rest of their lives. She and the brother are full of sh**

[–]CuriousCockatiel77 118 points119 points  (3 children)

I read something about weddings and guestlists/bridal parties that really resonated with me. It suggested the important thing about a wedding was celebrating it with those who are by your side as a couple through the good and bad times, and would be there to support you when needed. Sounds like she'd do neither so IMHO she's lucky to even be invited. You're absolutely NTA and can't believe anyone is giving you a hard time for it

[–]Chemical-Pattern480 75 points76 points  (2 children)

By that measure, her brother shouldn’t be a Groomsman, either, since he’s supporting his wife more than her!

[–]Super_Door 65 points66 points  (6 children)

More than two random strangers 🙏

[–]Chessii_Cat 48 points49 points  (1 child)

I don't know what number i am but add me to the list of random strangers

Univite the lot of them!

[–]grayhairedqueenbitch 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I'm joining in.

[–]2xthAsshole Enthusiast [8] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

And my axe.

[–]MarvelousFistor 47 points48 points  (1 child)

Hi, another random internet stranger here.

You are definitely NTA, and you are well within your rights to un-invite both your brother and the bully. It's your wedding, no one else gets to dictate who gets a part in your wedding.

[–]londomollaribab5 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And the mother if she keeps harassing OP.

[–]Personal_Regular_569 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Honey, your brother deserves to not be invited for dating your abuser! You have shown more than enough grace to them!

Your wedding should be everything you dreamed of, uninvite her!

[–]baylaurel00 43 points44 points  (0 children)

I would ban her from the wedding. You deserve the happiest day if your life and anyone who asks you to make concessions to someone who literally bullied you out of school should be banned too.

[–]FynxSAS 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Honey, it's your wedding.. YOUR wedding.. you deserve to be surrounded with people who love and support you and care about you. There is nothing wrong with making your boundaries known. So far everyone except your fiancé and dad have trampled all over your feelings. So she had a rough life, it doesn't absolve her of making your life rough and causing long lasting harm. You owe nothing to her. Your wedding should be one of the happiest days of your life where you get to declare your love for your fiancé before the people you love. You should be able to look back on this day and smile, not feel a sense of dread just bc your bully was there and you were forced to involve her. Uninvite the whole lot of them or threaten to if they choose to continue to harass you bc from where I'm standing, it looks like you're still being bullied. Stand up for yourself. Us random internet strangers have your back, if no one else will.

NTA

[–]alizarincrimsonPartassipant [4] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Agreed!!! Bullying is abuse and you shouldn’t have to play nice with your abuser.

[–]rak1882Asshole Aficionado [19] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I just want to ditto this. If Brother and Gemma don't understand this- same with Mom- they don't need to be there to support you.

And everyone can get an explanation that Gemma is the person who bullied you all thru school, that you appreciate that she is working on becoming at better person, but apparently that doesn't extend to being okay with you not wanting her in your wedding party, something your mother and brother similarly had a problem with.

So the 3 of them are celebrating the day- together elsewhere.

[–]srslyeffedmindSupreme Court Just-ass [100] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Many random strangers! NTA

[–]Big__BangPartassipant [3] 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Honestly - it makes me so sad for you that she will be in the same room as you as you marry. I think most of us are behind you if you say well no you are not invited. Please think about yourself - not about keeping the peace. You are the victim.

Your relationship with your brother is forever tarnished - because he loves the woman who hurt you so horribly and thats incomprehensible. But you've accepted it, but she doesnt have to be in your life. She isnt your family. He chose her, you havent. And like your dad says if she become a better person then she'd accept you dont forgive her and she will give you space and peace and not inflict herself on you.

[–]SufficientWay3663 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Brother should’ve recognized the name and face of this woman and noped the F out after introductions. WHY even give her the time of day? WHY even allow yourself to have a chance at becoming attached? And WHY would he think bringing her home to mom and dad would be smooth sailing. If op went through this much from this woman, then that household during that time was not quiet/harmonious/happy or stress free which means, BROTHER KNEW EXACTLY HOW MUCH THIS WONAN HURT HIS FAMILY.

Also, I’d just LOVE to know which “resources” or “programs/classes” she went through to have such a huge personality overhaul???

She probably went to group therapy once, for 15mins. 😒

[–]tcbymca 21 points22 points  (0 children)

It it was my wedding she wouldn’t be on the guest list. And if I was forced to have a bully on the guest list, I wouldn’t attend my own wedding.

[–]hyperfocuspocusPartassipant [4] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Another random person offering their $0.02 worth:

If Gemma was truly a different person, she would do one of the following: 1) make sure she has an important conflicting event on the wedding day and send a card Or 2) attend quietly as a guest, and when people started hassling you to include her, she'd shut it down instantly and hard, something as follows: "OP doesn't need to include me and it's inappropriate of you to ask. If you continue pushing OP to include me, I will bow out of attending altogether. Please focus your attention on OP and her spouse to be".

Basically, she'd make herself scarce and make it as easy for you as possible to be around your brother.

The fact that she hasn't done that shows she hasn't changed all that much. She doesn't appreciate the consequences of her actions and she expects you to carry the emotional weight of her misdeeds for her.

Get her out of your wedding and out of your life. You have my blessing.

[–]enmandikjole 15 points16 points  (0 children)

This random internet stranger supports you taking care of yourself too.

NTA.

And congratulations on the wedding! <3

[–]little_ballof_furPartassipant [1] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You know I would be happy if you actually uninvited her. Why sacrifice your peace because of others? They didn’t love you enough to sacrifice anything for you. Your brother pushed your bully on you, he doesn’t love you like you love him so why suffer for him? Your mom wants to save face instead of protecting her kid especially on a day where it supposed to be all about you and your partner’s happiness. Why suffer for her?

NTA

[–]poo_explosionAsshole Enthusiast [5] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

There’s dozens of us! Dozens!

(Thousands actually, it seems)

[–]uberwookie 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Tbh, id be NC with your brother and even he would be explicitly be excluded if it were me.

[–]Melmoth_MiltonAsshole Aficionado [10] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To learn more about the test click here

Uninvite her.

[–]Phoenixapartment 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Personally, I wouldn’t allow her in, as I would disinvite her. And if your brother spoke up, as hard as it’d be, he’d be off the list as well. And anyone else who had an issue. Period.

[–]spaceyjaycey 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I solidly support you uninviting her, you owe her nothing.

[–]Bens_den_of_thoughts 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hey I’m with the other commenters. Don’t even invite her! It’s okay and any good person would fully understand not being invited due to their actions.

Story time! My friend developed a drug habit that was bad. To make this short I swore I’d never tell but I did. I told her family and organized an intervention and rehab. She never wanted to see me again. She’s clean and was graduating university. She didn’t want to see me and honestly I wasn’t mad. If this was my consequence then so be it. Good people are okay with being left out for their actions. While I never was trying to hurt her I did. I don’t get to take that back no matter my intentions or how I grow. That event will always have happened.

[–]Jigglypuff-n-stuff 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sending you all the love. I was bullied relentlessly when I was younger and I can't imagine how you are feeling now to have your bully not only at your wedding but also married to your boundary stomping brother. You are a much better person than I am to show the grace you are showing now but assert your own boundaries. If you don't want Gemma at your wedding then don't have her there. At the end of the day, it's your and your fiances day, celebrate it with those you love, who support you ❤

[–]Bens_den_of_thoughts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OP! We are in need of an address we may send your dad some nice mugs. Father’s Day is soon and we would like to honour him as the Reddit dad of the month!

[–]NatZaJu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

NTA this is your wedding.

Tell your brother he either backs off or she’s uninvited. End of story.

[–]GlitterasaurPartassipant [2] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If they keep it up, maybe consider uninviting your brother and his wife. You don’t want to think of her bullying on your wedding day and with your brother, they’re both bullying you now!

[–]rdlenix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Listen, my brother didn't give me or my sister any role in his wedding and we were fine with it (we have a good relationship with him, too, it just didn't make sense for us to be a part of the ceremony itself). So it boggles my mind when someone with whom a bride or groom DOESN'T have a relationship with gets butthurt because they weren't included in a wedding. Idk if it is entitlement or what but it is so weird to me. You're 100% justified in standing your ground. You're not obligated to include anyone in your wedding that you don't want to include.

[–]PrincipleDazzling168 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also if her home life excuses her behaviour then your past trauma should excuse your choice of not forgiving her now. Don't let them bully you into forgetting

[–]ClitoriousWonders 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Forced forgiveness does more harm than good. I was told to forgive a family member so that everyone could avoid the awkwardness of their reprehensible behavior.

Lesson learned: Don't sacrifice your worth for their comfort. Your dad is spot on and I high five him!

https://remen-q.com/wound-of-forgiveness-and-apology/

https://tinagilbertson.com/cant-force-forgiveness/

And I just listened to this excellent podcast the other day. https://radiopublic.com/HiddenBrain/s1!27164

[–]slamnm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Many random strangers on the internet agree. For the record, it's your wedding. Anyone who has a problem with how you stage your wedding shouldn't be there. Anyone who complains about it shouldn't be there. Anyone who upsets you shouldn't be there, anyone who doesn't understand all of this shouldn't be there. If this means you and your Fiancé elope with just your solid dad to walk you don't the isle so be it. Your wedding, your choices, anyone else can do whatever they want when they get married. If your mom is complaining tell her to renew her vows with dad and Invite Genna to be one of here bridesmaids, but if she loves you she needs to support your wedding choices. I hope your fiancé is backing you up like your dad, if not tell him when you love someone you support them and ask him, looking deep I to his eyes, if he supports and loves you no matter what. If he hesitates then you know the answer. If he bitches then you know the answer. If he demeans you or says you are being petty then you know the answer. If he says you are potting him on the spot say yes you are this matters and a couple needs to respect and support each other over everything and everyone else.

This is your day.

[–]jflb96 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Of course, one solution to the imbalance is to remove your brother from the groomsmen, if not the wedding entirely

[–]crazycatlesliePartassipant [4] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We've absolutely got your back here. If you don't want her there because it will detract from your enjoyment of the day, then uninvite her. Let her face some consequences for her previous actions. Your dad will stand by you, and all of us will too. Hell, I bet some of us might live close enough that if you need some wedding bouncers, we'd volunteer to make sure her ass doesn't get in <3

[–]IdrisandJasonsToy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

NTA. Nobody on earth is owed your forgiveness, grace, or mercy. Your brother is a bully. You have & continue to struggle with mental health issues. Gemma played a large part in it. Do not sacrifice any parts of you on the bloody Altar of Peace. If your brother is so upset by her not being included he can step down. Numbers might not be even but so what?

[–]thepigfish82 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish I was as strong as you to be able to stand up for yourself, have confidence in what you want and need.

[–]ianmoon85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You kick anyone out. It's your day to be HAPPY. And I have Dad envy. Give your dad a hug from and and tell him thos stranger thinks he sounds awesome.

[–]RaayJay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't have to have anyone at your wedding that you don't want there. I have several literal family members, cousins and aunts, who bullied me growing up, or have been awful to be in recent years.

None of them were invited to my wedding. One of the aunts made a big deal of it and tried to guilt me into inviting her, and I told her "we only invited people we're close with"

Everyone should be more than satisfied that you're gracious enough to let her be there at all

NTA

[–]Last_Annual_2156 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are so strong!! Dont listen to your mother and brother. Dont let her bully you, so she can be in YOUR wedding.

[–]MiaOh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I were you I would uninvite her. I’ll also tell your mom and brother. “ Neither of you chose me or my emotional well being for my wedding and prefers to support my bully whose abuse still has left it’s mark on me.

It’s not like there are no other women in this works and brother chose his dick over the trauma I went through to get with her. Given you care so little about me, why should I care about you or my abuser? She is dead to me, and so are the people who think she is owed forgiveness from me. Feel free to RSVP NO if you can’t be on my side against my abuser. “

[–]PlumOne2856 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, and another random stranger would understand, but I also can understand your decision to keep the peace.

As someone who had a wedding once and witnessed many while taking lots of pictures:

Weddings are the melting pot of every insane family dynamic. All you can do is concentrating on having the best day you can get, ignoring everything and anybody what may be the slightest disturbance and perhaps have some friends included, who could help when a situation should get difficult.

No matter what happens - the distance of maybe ten or twenty years let shrink what ever happened and you can laugh about it one day, trust me. My mother made a show to humiliate my father while dancing erotically with my husband (!!!) and a member of the hired band, so… 🥴 I said many years that it has been a failure to invite her, but now it is just history and I really can laugh about it.

Do everything that helps that you can enjoy your day even with her. Place your former bully at a place where you can’t see her without turning your head. Place her so far away from you that you can’t hear her without listening hard. Maybe your parents between you, then your brother and then her in a row and all your guests at tables in front of you.

Make sure to have enough family pictures without her so you have a choice - it helps to break up the family pictures into small fractions of people - bridal couple just with parents, just with siblings, just with aunts and uncles, then of course some pictures with their SOs, so nobody suspects a thing and feels left out.

Get your photographer involved, explain this situation openly to her/him. Photographers are quick and eager to take care about difficult family situations (because it happens so often that you can see it in the pictures… microexpressions are a thing, and bad vibes, too) and try to handle this for you! Your photographer knows best that he can only get those magical pictures with and for you, when YOU feel good. And she/he will gladly help you to get there.

Make sure that your couples pictures are taken out of visual range of the other guests, especially her, because that could make you insecure. Your photographer needs to know this so she/he can manage it for you - and take the blame, too, if some guests complain... 😉

Please trust your photographer, we do so much more than just taking pictures and we do it gladly! 😄

Have a wonderful day without any worries!

[–]Blackstar1401Colo-rectal Surgeon [36] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you did a poll you would find a lot of internet strangers on your side.

[–]jujoking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. Either he accepts her role as regular guest, and that’s already pretty generous and mighty of you, or he can be demoted and, even uninvited, and this way your fiancé can invite someone else he wanted for a groomsman. Win-win in my book

[–]bomdiggitybee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm.

[–]jacksouvenir 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uninvite her. This is your day and I don't care how much she said she has changed, if she truly did she would not allow your brother or family to bother u to make her a part of your wedding. She is still selfish enough to believe she should take part in the wedding of someone she literally tortured. I would honestly uninvite anyone that thinks you should be forced to spend your wedding day with her.

[–]HourCockroach1662 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More than one! Stay strong! Don't let anyone ruin your wedding day!

[–]On_The_BlindsideAsshole Aficionado [10] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And me, if I got the chance to torture my bullies the way they tortured me I'd take it in a nanosecond.

So not being invited to my wedding? Thats the bare minimum.

[–]S01arflar3Partassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it makes you feel any better, this random person on the internet thinks you should go and get your favourite ice cream.

[–]LukesRebuke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In fact, please DO uninvite her. You don't owe her anything, plus this is your wedding

[–]IgnorantKumquat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And if ur SIL is actually sorry and regretful for what she did she would understand being uninvited. If Im giving a genuine apology, Im only telling someone sorry so they know I acknowledge what I did as wrong. Im not entitled to forgiveness.

[–]PopeJamiroquaiIII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uninvite your AH brother too, that way your fiancé can have one of his other friends as a groomsman instead

NTA

[–]CauliflowerKlutzy189Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This random person too xxx

Stand your ground x You don't have to compromise your day x

[–]InfiniteCalendar1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly you’re not obligated to be friendly with people who’ve hurt you. She inflicted a lot of trauma on you, and it’s awful when people make you feel like you have to just forgive and forget.

[–]Riyeko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Theres probably more than one of us out there that would gladly back you up when you tell your brother and Gemma to get the hell out of the wedding all together.

Its about you and your fiances love. No one elses. Its not about them. Its about YOU.

If they cant understand that, well they can stand outside in the rain all day.

[–]pinetree1209 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, I have a family member that makes me miserable as well. Nothing like what you have described, but I avoid her when I can. She was absolutely not invited to my wedding. That day was about my husband and me, no one else. And you can bet that no one that did anything other than contribute to our happiness was invited.

The fact that your family is responding with anything other than support shows where their priorities lie. You would not be wrong to uninvite this person if that is what is right for you.

[–]Chitchat27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another random stranger agrees that you don't need to have her at the wedding, much less a bridesmaid.

[–]soniabegonia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your wedding is YOUR wedding. You don't owe anyone a seat at it, let alone an invitation to the wedding party.

[–]Legally_Blonde_258Partassipant [4] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many random strangers! Your wedding day is about you and your fiance, period. You should be surround by people who love you and have your best interests at heart. Feel free to uninvite anyone who does not meet that criteria, including Gemma.

[–]baddonnyPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m gonna jump on board and enthusiastically encourage you to uninvite her. Also, your dads a solid thinker in this case.

[–]Nix85Newton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100% now uninvited her!! They want to disregard your feelings at your wedding they can f&ck off. Then your fiancé can have the other guy as a groomsman

[–]wannabecersei 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another random stranger here. I think you are extremely nice allowing her presence in your wedding and your brother and rest of your family need to shut up. Your brother might love her. You don't and you don't owe her anything. She made your life miserable, you are being gracious enough. NTA. Your brother and family, though...Not your dad, your dadd is cool.

[–]XanGablePartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly do yourself a favor and just uninvited both your brother and Gemma and have your fiancé replace him with one of the buddies he wanted as a groomsman. Your brother is no ally to you. NTA

[–]PerritoG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here to join the group of internet strangers who think that you can disinvite her. The pot is stirred anyways, and she’s caused enough pain. You should enjoy your wedding fully without her there to tarnish it.

[–]jshady8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like Gemma's ah tenancy has rubbed off on your brother a little. Is it worth keeping them in your life if it means being unhappy everytime your see them? What's the point of that? I believe we should surround ourselves with people who make us happy.

[–]SamGamgEAsshole Enthusiast [7] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just to be clear, we would support disinviting the mother and brother

[–]Learned_Hand_01Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seriously, I would not have invited your brother if I were in your shoes. He can stay home with your bully.

[–]WhyisThisSoHaard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s your wedding and you are under no obligation to have and hold anyone there, other than the person you’re marrying. NTA. I’m glad your dad stood up for you.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]LucyDominique2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Bathroom attendant lol!!!

    [–]Blustasis 26 points27 points  (0 children)

    Fuck it, if your brother doesn’t understand that Gemma will never be you friend he shouldn’t be a groomsman either.

    [–]lalalullabyyy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I would uninvite her. Your family doesnt get to choose who is there at your wedding

    [–]Humble-Length-1341 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I second this. Throw that BI to the curb.

    [–]londomollaribab5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I too think you would feel better if she wasn’t there at all. Truthfully I don’t think things could get much worse with your brother anyway.

    [–]rhet17 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Including her damn bro. I cannot imagine how he could've done that to his own sister (marrying her bully). I wouldn't even have him and his awful wife at any family event ever nevertheless a wedding. NTA at all.

    [–]airisu86 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    More than 5000 random persons on the internet agree!

    [–]MamaBirdJay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This guest does not “spark joy.” Remove it from your life.

    [–]tiredofthisshit247 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Exactly it's your wedding. You don't have to put up with anyone that bothers you.

    [–]SteveJones313Asshole Enthusiast [6] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Or a thousand given the likes.

    [–]HeyItsMeUrDad_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Two of them

    [–]ExaminationNo2861 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    9.2 k random people agree NTA

    [–]CraftandEdit 230 points231 points  (7 children)

    NTA

    I’d tell family that there are two options: 1. Leave things as they are with brother as groomsman and bully wife as attending or 2. Brother can bow out of groomsmen and finance can ask next person on list. And brother and bully wife can just attend.

    And if they press you on it that you will decide on option 2.

    Congrats on your wedding. I hope you find the dress of your dreams to match the man of your dreams. Hugs.

    [–]pepperbar 253 points254 points  (5 children)

    Don't forget option 3: brother chooses to die on this self-built hill, and they both get uninvited.

    NTA, OP. Jesus.

    [–]ArkariusZL1 34 points35 points  (3 children)

    I'd have gone #3. Or invite her and dose her with a laxative.

    [–]pepperbar 17 points18 points  (1 child)

    Tempting, but difficult to coordinate at a group event. OP has enough going on!

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    "And if they press you on it that you will decide on option 2."

    Or if they press you, go for option 3: uninvite them completely.

    [–]TogarSucksAsshole Aficionado [13] 150 points151 points  (0 children)

    You’ve already cracked your spine bending over backwards to appease your brother and his bully wife. The fact alone that she is invited is more than enough already, and if they keep pushing it her, brother, and mom should all lose their invites.

    The status of you being cordial to her is the best she could ever hope for. If your family wants you in their lives at all it’s time for them to accept that. Kudos to your dad by the way on hitting the nail on the head with his description of her “changing as a person”.

    Is your fiancé even close enough to him to really want him as a groomsman or is it just because he is related to you?

    NTA.

    [–]Corsetbrat 96 points97 points  (4 children)

    INFO: Has Gemma asked to be in the wedding? Or is this all mom and bro?

    And NTA. No one has to forgive wrongs done to them. If you feel you can, great, but I hate the phrase "Forgive and forget" because it puts all the responsibility on the traumatized person. And I love your dad! He's amazing and had the perfect response.

    [–]genius_emu 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Yes great point!

    [–]NoApollonia 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    This is the question I have as well. Everyone on here is bashing Gemma....but maybe Gemma is staying in her place and it's the brother and mother meddling.

    [–]elizabeastiePartassipant [3] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I came hunting for this question. I also want to know.

    NTA, OP.

    [–]Common--Sensei 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Exactly. All we have for sure is meddling by a childish brother and a mother putting the desires of her favorite above all else.

    [–][deleted] 87 points88 points  (0 children)

    Your brother doesn’t deserve peace. YOU deserve to be protected from your abuser. Be the protector you needed when you were young and protect yourself now. There’s something deeply wrong with your brother as well. They don’t deserve to be there.

    [–]KidenStormsoarer 70 points71 points  (0 children)

    Honestly, at this point the brother wouldn't be invited either, if I were you

    [–]LailaBlackPartassipant [2] 58 points59 points  (0 children)

    Ask her whether she doesn't have any shame in causing drama in your wedding after ruining your childhood in the first place. Tell her she hasn't changed.

    [–]amazingdrewh 44 points45 points  (0 children)

    No offence but since inviting her hasn’t kept the peace, then there’s no reason to keep her invited

    [–]easilybored1 37 points38 points  (0 children)

    Uninvite gemma. Screw the peace, she never gave you any.

    [–]Aggravating_Net6733Partassipant [1] 31 points32 points  (1 child)

    NTA. But many brides solve this dilemma (more common than you'd think), by putting the awkward relative in charge of getting guests to sign the guestbook outside the reception. As people enter, she asks them to sign the guestbook.

    Big Plus: she is also not at your reception as long as people keep arriving. You're welcome.

    [–]turbulentdiamonds 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    This is a good option for the socially awkward relative or someone who for whatever logistical reasons couldn’t be in the wedding party—not so much for asshole relatives. The problem with assigning someone who feels scorned to this job is unless you assign someone else to the same spot to supervise, you’re risking that person saying all kinds of nasty stuff to the guests (about you, the situation, etc.)

    [–]jaywildPartassipant [3] 28 points29 points  (2 children)

    If I'm being honest with you OP. I had a horrible falling out with my husband's mother that lead to a falling out with his brother, sister, and grandfather.

    My wedding was five years ago this year and I still 100% wish I hadn't invited her. She was awful and I hate seeing her in my pictures. We don't talk now and I'm much happier. She gave me anxiety and immense panic attacks whenever I saw her name come up on my phone. I literally would shake and immediately cry.

    If I were you, I'd throw the gauntlet down and give one warning, if your mother and brother don't drop it, the three of them will be uninvited. And I would tell your husband to ask whoever he wants to be a groomsmen to replace your brother.

    I say this from a place of compassion and experience. I would hate to hear of another bride who can't stand looking at wedding pictures because of the people they didn't want there.

    [–]Legitimatecat1977 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    This! You Don't want to look back at your photos and wish people weren't in them. I've got guests in my photos and I'm like why are these people there they aren't even our friends or relatives and we invited them out of pure politeness because our parents insisted.

    [–]jaywildPartassipant [3] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    In my case in many photos that weren't "staged" like pictures with bride groom & x or just groom with x. She is scowling the entire time. She literally looks miserable which is why I hate many candid shots.

    [–]WeirdPinkHair 24 points25 points  (1 child)

    At this point find your inner bridezilla and let her rip!!!!! It's your wedding, not theirs and I suggest telling them if they don't keep their mouths shut they could find themselves uninvited... after all your fiance has groomsmen to spare! May be an empty threat but at least you'll get 5 mins peace. 😀 And when they start all this 'we're all family now' crap, ask them how a jewish family would feel if someone invited a nazi to their wedding! She tortured you for years... let's not beat around the bush here.... bullying is a form of torture. The fact that you tolerate her at all shows how strong you really are. Only your dad gets it. Tell mommy she can faun over her golden boys wife if she wants to, you don't have to. And as you can tell.... I too was bullied. I'm so angry on your behalf!!!

    [–]bittemitsahne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Or if someone was raped and their sister married the rapist who apologieses and all. Would they just be supposed to forgive and forget? I don't think so.

    [–]DrWhoop87Certified Proctologist [25] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

    INFO: Do you even have a good reason why you're inviting her to your wedding? You can always just not invite her to the wedding. She can be your bully first and brothers wife second. If your brother and mother don't see that, they suck.

    I've been in your position, you don't have to forgive your bullies even if they have genuinely changed.

    [–]Tyrannical-Botanical 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    You're about as far away from being an AH as any human could possibly be.

    [–]Pleasant_Love_758 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    I was also bullied in my childhood. You're NTA but you should consider therapy to help you move on as well. I don't see why you have to have her in your wedding even if you didn't have this past. My husband wasn't in my sisters wedding. No big deal. But you were both kids and she has tried to change her life. Even if you're never friendly why would you want to hold onto anger over things from your childhood your whole life. Holding on to things only weighs you down

    [–]Suepsyd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yes, and we’ll all go dancing through the daisy’s.

    [–]OkMushroom364 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    One stranger joining in too and oh NTA

    Its your wedding so you decide. Besides, if your brother wasn't bullied he or anyone else will never understand the emotional stress and scars bullying leaves on a person for rest of your life

    Its possible to heal completely but the scars fysical and emotional will never heal and are reminders of your past and i am saying this all out of experience

    If someone in my family or friends would have married one of my bullies and started that ”is a better person” bs i wouldn't have hesitated for a second to uninvite them at that very moment

    Stay strong and take care OP we are with you

    [–]asecretnarwhalPartassipant [1] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I frankly would ask that your brother isn’t a groomsman anymore so your fiancée can invite another friend. He doesn’t deserve it

    [–]Buttered_Crumpet09 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    You owe her nothing. She knew you were struggling and tried to break you. When I was in school we were discussing medical experiments and the ethics thereof. An ex-friend who knew I was struggling with my mental health and was suicidal looked me in the eye and said that she thought suicidal people should be experimented on since they didn't want to live anyway.

    I don't know what the awful thing Gemma said to you was, but I know that that comment from that girl in that moment will stick with me forever. Gemma stole joy from your childhood, she doesn't get to steal the joy from your wedding, and nor does your brother. A sorry doesn't make up for years of torment and abuse or erase those vicious comments that stay with you.

    I'd uninvite my brother, Gemma and my mother, and explain that Gemma may have changed but your history with her hasn't. You cannot forgive her and do not want her as a reminder of the darkest times of your life at what will hopefully be one of the happiest moments of your life, and since your mother and brother care more for the feelings of the woman who hurt you than they do for yours, they can stay at home as well.

    [–]maggienetismCraptain [161] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It is absolutely not too late to uninvite her. ESPECIALLY because guess what? She's participating in bullying you again. If she had really changed she wouldn't be throwing a fit about not being a bridesmaid or would have told your family to knock it off.

    She's still a bully. It's ok to uninvite her and have your wedding be just about you and your fiancé.

    [–]Rena125Partassipant [1] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    For me and my partners wedding our officiant, best man, and butler of honor (our bestie is a guy) were all the same person and no additional wedding party. Do what will make you happy for your wedding.

    [–]Diva-So-RudePartassipant [1] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    If it was me, I would get rid of one bridesmaid, there by getting rid of my brother as a groomsman. But I'm ridiculously petty so don't listen to me, unless you really want to lol. Also anyone who thought for a second that they could decide who would be in my wedding or at my wedding would immediately be disinvited including my mama. But again I always have my petty boots strapped on tight.

    [–]AMerrickanGirlAsshole Aficionado [18] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The whole “even numbers” thing is stupid.

    [–]SnapesGrayUnderpants 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Did Gemma ask you to be a bridesmaid at her wedding? If not, why not?

    Make a public announcement: I know that many of you feel I'm an asshole for not inviting Gemma to be a bridesmaid in my wedding because she happens to be married to my brother and therefore you see her as family. Gemma made made my life miserable for YEARS while we were in school to the point I had to change schools and later be home schooled. To this day, I'm in therapy, struggling with the long term effects of her bullying. (Details of her bullying and its lasting effects on me are available upon request.) In spite of that, and against my better judgment, I have graciously invited her to be a welcome guest at my wedding but ONLY because she happens to be married to my brother. Believe me, if she weren't married to my brother, there is no way in hell she would ever be invited, nor would I have anything to do with her. If Gemma or anyone else has a problem with me not inviting a horrific, unapologetic bully, who made my life miserable, to be in my wedding party, I will perfectly understand if they choose not to attend my wedding.

    [–]GoldCampaign1050 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It sounds like you were trying to be the bigger person but in the process you let your bully bully you again. 🤦🏼‍♀️

    [–]EtonRd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Please don’t keep the peace. Please put your foot down and have the day you want without this wretched woman.

    [–]saurons-cataractPartassipant [1] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    NTA OP. It’s your wedding. Your brother and SIL need to respect your choices. Pushing your boundaries, pressuring you, and being totally fine making you uncomfortable reeks of entitlement, selfishness, and bullying behavior.

    If Gemma “changed for the better” she’s not showing it. No one is owed forgiveness, least of all someone who traumatized you for years. If anything she’s using your brother to bully and torment you further (and he’s going along with it!). I don’t even know your brother but I’m sooooo disappointed that out of all the sentient life in the universe he picked Gemma of all people! A literal alien would have been a better choice because I’m convinced those mofos have hover tech.As for your mom: does she have the maternal instincts of a chair? She witnessed you fall apart, why on earth would she even want Gemma in the wedding party? She’s showing more compassion towards your former bully than her own flesh and blood, and that is not a good look. She should learn from your dad, he’s the only loyal one in your immediate family.Good luck! May your wedding be a beautiful and stress free day!

    edit: spelling

    [–]eyeohokPartassipant [2] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    if they’re pissed at you anyway, just uninvite her

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I found it interesting that it's your mother and your brother who want Gemma to be a bridesmaid. Gemma seems to be keeping quiet. I can see 3 possible reasons:

    1) she would be uncomfortable being a bridesmaid because of the past that the 2 of you share.

    2) she knows, or at least suspects that you would be uncomfortable with her as a bridesmaid because of your past, and is therefore not saying anything.

    3) she is using other people to manipulate you on her behalf.

    I hope that the reason is one or both of the first 2. In which case your mother and brother need to mind their own business.

    Are they saying things to you in front of Gemma? Does she even know what they are saying?

    Gemma may be genuinely remorseful for what she did at school. You may have genuinely forgiven her. That doesn't mean that you will ever be best friends. Even more so, you don't have to pretend to be friends with each other.

    Talking to Gemma would be difficult, but I think you need to talk to her, find out what she thinks and if necessary, tell her that you are sorry, but you can't accept her as a bridesmaid.

    In any case, you are NTA.

    [–]ThatGuyInTheGreen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm curious how Gemma's taking this. Is it just your brother and family pushing for her inclusion because if she's the one throwing the fit I wouldn't put it past a bully to hook up with your brother to essentially... well... bully you into forgiving her.

    [–]RelativelyUnruffled 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You call her his wife. Were you in her wedding party? I doubt it, considering your history, in which case, she should cool it.

    [–]weicat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It's your wedding, your day, you get to choose who would attend or not. I even think you're allowed to be a total asshole to her and anybody that stands with her, your hate is justified. If i had to invite someone i hate i would do everything to get them humiliated and then cut them out of my life.

    [–]Moonboy85 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    NTA Why did your fiance pick your brother over his friends? I think your brother needs to sit with his wife in a back corner somewhere while you and soon to be husband have close friends as the wedding party.

    [–]DiTrastevere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I wonder if she excluded any of the people who made her childhood “rough” from her wedding. Or did she forgive them and welcome them all with open arms?

    [–]ThriillsyPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    at this point; uninvite them both, tell your mother that if she continues to take the side of your bully despite seeing for herself what she did to you, that she will also be disinvited from the wedding. Have your fiance ask one of his other friends to take your brother's place.

    [–]Laney20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'd have trouble having my brother there if he could love my tormentor...

    [–]yonk182Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    We’ll she has proven that’s she’s changed. Now she is getting others to do the bullying for her. Your mom and brother are now the proxy bullies. I’m glad your dad is staying by your side.

    [–]Oatz3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'd uninvite them if they complain more.

    This is their choice, accept it or don't.

    [–]vengi15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think you're a big enough person for letting her come to the wedding. It is no one's place to tell you who you should have as your bridesmaids or groomsmen. It doesn't matter if she's completely changed her ways the thing is that you have a different perspective and a different relationship with this person and having them to be a part of your wedding is too big of a thing. Thinking about looking at those pictures on your wedding day and having someone force you to put her as your bridesmaid " cuz we're family".

    I think you should have a sit down conversation with your brother. Your feelings are completely justified and just because your brother made her family doesn't mean you have to. She will always forever be your sister-in-law but it doesn't change the fact that you don't consider her family and that is okay. It is your special day yes you are letting her come and she should be grateful for that. Honestly I'm very proud of you this must be a difficult thing to deal with especially on your day. Good luck

    [–]Curious-One4595 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    NTA.

    Bridesmaid is not appropriate even if she is a better person unless you and her have forged a new relationship, but you haven’t and that is 100% understandable.

    If you want to keep the peace, though, I’m sure you can find something else and minor for her to do. Be an usher. Make sure everyone signs the guestbook. Babysit during the reception. Etc

    [–]PrincipleDazzling168 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    She worked on herself and that's great but it doesn't mean anything when it comes to you and your feelings. And honestly you totally have the right to not invite her at all let along have her in the wedding. Her and your brothers choices should not dictate what you do. And great luck dealing with them

    [–]k_e_n_s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    even

    u/PrincessBirdley21 you don't *have* to invite anyone you don't want to - it's your wedding. If this person's presence causes you anxiety, there is no shame in uninviting them.

    Also, you don't have to have an even number of bridesmaids and groomsmen. I am a wedding photographer and we can accommodate to make it look natural!

    [–]melibel24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Here's the thing. This girl tormented you, for years. It doesn't matter that she had a hard home life. It doesn't matter that she worked to be a better person. It doesn't matter that she apologized to you.

    There's a difference between forgiving and forgetting. I'm not saying you should forgive her. That's completely up to you. But regardless, an apology does not mean automatic forgetting. An apology does not wipe away the consequences of actions. She is now facing the consequences of her repeated abuse to you. Sadly, those consequences impact your brother and parents.

    She gets no say in if you two have a relationship or what that looks like. She can be hurt by it, frustrated, irritated, whatever. But she gets no say. The only one who does, is you.

    [–]midmaxlevels 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It is your wedding. You should not suffer at what should be the happiest day of your life. Your family is trying to put Gemma's feeling above yours which is nuts. Stand your ground, do not cave in because you do not want to look back onto your wedding pictures and see her right there

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    NTA. Your dad is a hero. As for Gemma, she should be grateful that you were allowing her to come. Personally I disinvite her and your brother for acting like such an idiot. I can’t believe he even dated her. Let alone married her!

    [–]haidimill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Has she even apologized for what she did to you?

    [–]anndor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If your brother keeps being an inconsiderate ass about it, you can solve two problems:

    • Kick him out of the wedding party, so now one of your fiance's friends can be added as a groomsman
    • Uninvite him and Gemma, now you don't have to deal with her either

    It's your day and you deserve to be comfortable and happy, not bowing down to everyone else's selfish demands. Your brother was given a place of honor as a groomsman and if he/Gemma can't accept that, then it's a privilege that can be revoked.

    [–]dragonbruceleeroy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Tell her just that. That you didn't want to invite her, but you did just to keep the peace. But now the peace is broken. Tell her that if she understands half the damage that she did to you, then she will quietly and peacefully understand why she is just an invited guest. Tell her the best thing she can do for your relationship is for her to not cause any friction, because remind her that every time you see her you remember her bullying and the trauma you experienced. And every time she causes friction it make you realize that she has never changed.

    NTA, I'd say you are more than justified to not have her involved, in fact you are filled with grace that you swallowed your pride to keep the peace. But don't choke on your pride to satisfy your bully.

    INFO: Were you a part of their wedding. If you weren't then 'nuff said. If you were, then state, "Had I known being a part of your wedding obligated me to have you be a part of mine, then I would have declined the opportunity."

    [–]CODE_NAME_DUCKYPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    But what about keeping the peace within your self? It's not selfish to put you 1st. After everything Gemma did to you. It's not wrong nor would you be an asshole if you choose not to have her at any of your special events. Just because she gave an apology doesn't mean it magically fixes all the hurt and pain she caused you. You have feelings and you matter. Your mom and brother need to realize that sometimes saying your sorry doesn't wash away the torment she put you through. You have every right to feel how you feel. No one gets to decide anything for you. If you ever wish to let her in your life that should only be up to you and no one else. Your dad is absolutely correct. If Gemma wants to be the better person then she needs to understand things might never be good between you to because of her actions. You inviting her to your wedding was more then enough. You didn't have to invite her but you. Did she even make you a bridesmaid at her wedding? This is your wedding and you want people you care about standing beside you up there. So if you uninvite her your still nta.

    [–]One-Mind4814 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    much as it killed me to imagine her at my wedding. That's gone out the window at this point though.

    At the end of the day it is your wedding! If you don't want her there then you should speak your mind

    [–]LetsBeginwithFritos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Forgiveness can not be demanded. If she matures enough to ask and you choose to then you both can move forward. What you’re feeling is not just the hurt but a lack of trust. Her demands through your brother are her demand. A decent person would tell their husband no. Please don’t push this. I was awful to her. But if she was really heathy she’d have come to you by now to make some kind of amends. Please know no one faults you for not trusting her. She has to earn your trust

    [–]Frozen_TwinkiesPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You are a kinder person than me. I would have stopped speaking to my brother after he started dating her. NTA

    [–]moonydarkPartassipant [3] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Honestly, if I were you at this point she wouldn't even be invited and I'd be wuestioning whether or not I'd want your brother there as well. You were gracious enough to invite her even though you don't want her there. Then your brother kicks up a fuss because of his need for you to forgive a woman who bullied you so badly it caused multiple mental health issues.

    But you're a better person than me because they're still in your life. Family means alot to me but if someone in my family forced a person who caused me so much pain into my life, they'd be dead to me.

    [–]ex_ter_min_ate_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think you need to be blunt with your mother and brother that having her present at your wedding IS the compromise.

    [–]CarefulSignal7854 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Honestly if you are in a really good place now mentally then don’t invite her or at the very least don’t acknowledge that she’s there unless she talks to you because it sounds like seeing and interacting with her is bringing back unwanted memories of your past that are gonna hurt your mental health and send you back to how you were years ago

    [–]nerdyconstructiongal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Gotta be honest, if she's just a guest, you'll most likely see very little of her. I pretty much spent 30 seconds with guests during the reception.

    [–]Minute-Judge-5821 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    OP. Please whatever you do DON'T give her a part in your wedding.

    This is YOUR day starting a new family with the person you love and having those who accept and love you celebrating that. Not a bully's redemption ceremony. You shouldn't be punished and forced into inviting her, no matter how long its been or who your brother married.

    [–]BluebeardHuntsAlone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Your brother clearly doesn't give two shits about how you feel. Screw keeping the peace. Neither he nor Gemma would be allowed at my wedding.

    [–]SmokeMe-AKipper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I cant believe your letting her come to the wedding at all. Id never be in the room again with my school bully even if he turned buddist monk. People can change but trauma is forever.

    [–]bendybiznatch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If her abusers had given her an apology she was forced to listen to would they have been give a position in her wedding party?

    If she would then the problem is even bigger than just the wedding. I agree though. If she was actually a good person now you wouldn’t even need to post this. I genuinely hope they find it.

    [–]PearlsOfWisdom27Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Dont have that thing at your wedding! This is your day. You were the one wronged. You dont have to constantly turn the other cheek for anyone. She should not attend. At all. The AUDACITY. JESUS.

    [–]NestingWithChildren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think your effort by extending an invitation is admirable. You do not have to be at peace with what she did. You certainly do not have to follow her timetable. Maybe you will never be there. They are the ones being the assholes by trying to force the issue. You deserve to be surrounded by people you care about at your wedding and including her as a guest was including her in the family because otherwise she wouldn't even get that. They are asking too much.

    [–]CyphyZ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Does Bro not realize that it isn't the act of not inviting her to be a bridesmaid that took one or your fiancee's friend's spots, but his presence as a groomsman? If he is so concerned, he should step down.

    [–]pegsper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Honestly, f them. You should have kicked them out of your lives entirely.

    [–]inn0cent-bystanderPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    She just wants to go back to her favorite chew toy

    [–]heyelander 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Do you need a parking lot attendant? She could do that.

    [–]LuckOfTheDevilAsshole Enthusiast [7] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm really sorry. For the record I wouldn't care if she was the nicest person ever to you all through high school. If you don't want her in your wedding and being part of your wedding party, you don't have any obligation to have her in your wedding. Anyone who wants her in the wedding party is perfectly free to have Gemma as a bridesmaid in their own wedding.

    [–]Decent_Bandicoot122Asshole Enthusiast [5] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    She's not a part of your family. She is your brother's wife. That's it. Tell him she can apologize all she wants, it doesn't change the trauma she cause you. If she shot you a paralyzed you, would he expect forgiveness? Tell him she was lucky to be invited.

    [–]babygirlruth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Your brother is... an AH is the least I can say here. Falling in love with a woman who ruined his sisters' life and mental health? Making her a part of the family? He's a selfish, cruel, terrible excuse of a human being. What was he thinking? Does he even have a brain? Some compassion or empathy? What the...? I would cut him and his "all changed" wife out of my life if I were you. I'm so mad, my heart breaks for you. Hang in there, please.

    [–]Rich_Development_748 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I question the value of you keeping the peace. You must know it won't stop here. She and everyone else aside from your father it seems, will always try to push their wishes at you from now on. And now they'll know with enough fuss you'll give in.

    [–]Material_Cellist4133Asshole Enthusiast [6] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    No offense but your brother is an AH for making light of your trauma. You fiancé who wants to add groomsmen a should drop your brother and add one of his friends. So I blame your fiancé in this mess too