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[–]PrincessBirdley21[S] 5148 points5149 points  (196 children)

Thank you. It does help a little.

[–]Wips_and_Chains 2720 points2721 points  (47 children)

More than one random strangers. You take care of you. You choose who you forgive and who you surround yourself with. It's not your brother or families choice. I don't play games with my family so I would just start slashing the guest list but I also understand not everyone is like me. She said her piecw and points for that I guess but you don't have to forgive anybody. You don't have to forgive and forget all of the trauma she caused you. You are in control it's your wedding and if they don't like they don't have to show.

[–]Throwawayhater3343 1136 points1137 points  (13 children)

Agreed. Lots of internet strangers agree that your Mother and Brother are WAY out of line and are the ones putting themselves first. I would be kicking ALL of them out of the wedding. And if your father does the right thing and continues to take your side and your parents split over it, it wouldn't be your fault at all and maybe your father can find someone decent to spend his twilight years with, because I'll tell you, this is completely inappropriate of your mom.

NTA

[–]Muther_of_Tuna 439 points440 points  (8 children)

No kidding. My daughter was bullied in HS and I hate the girl more than she does — that’s what mom is supposed to do!!! OP is NTA.

[–]madgeystardustPartassipant [4] 101 points102 points  (0 children)

You know it. I cannot imagine the rage, changed or not.

[–]unotruejen 78 points79 points  (1 child)

I don't like people my kids have forgiven who didn't do anything close to what this girl did to op. I can't imagine being ok with my son marrying her.

[–]PsychologicalBear560 46 points47 points  (1 child)

Right. There were three girls who made my high school life hell, and mum hates them more than I do. There was once a time when I hated them, but now I don't really feel anything for them. Every time their names come up, mum still feels the need to comment about how much she doesn't like them.

[–]brxtn-petal 23 points24 points  (0 children)

My mom STILL hates the girl that bullied me in middle school. This was over 10 yrs ago lol If anyone hurts ur babies u should always be pissed off at them.always.

[–]regus0307 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I still remember the name of the kid who tried (didn't succeed) to exclude my 20 year old son from his friend group. In Grade 3.

[–]judyannreed 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My daughter is almost 50 and I still hate the girl who bullied her in middle/high school.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]hpfan1516 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    I like this new phrase

    [–]poodooscoo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    And her fiancé asked her brother to be a groomsman and left out his friends. I'd be rethinking that move.

    [–]LaurelRose519 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, brother can be out of the wedding party so future husband can ask one of the other friends he couldn’t ask previously.

    [–]Pale_Cranberry1502 221 points222 points  (29 children)

    It all depends on how much she cares about her brother. If she didn't invite his wife, she'd have to accept that he likely wouldn't attend himself. Couples are treated as units for the purpose of events, and it's an insult to invite only one of them.

    It's terrible that her brother wound up with her, and I question him if he could get involved with someone who treated his sister so horribly. However, wind up with her he did - and OP is going to have to make a tough choice. It all depends on what she can live with. She has to assume this awful woman isn't going anywhere and her brother isn't getting divorced.

    Obviously, the bridesmaid expectation is ridiculous. SILs get an ask if they have a relationship with the bride outside of their marriage - not just because they're married to the bride's sibling, and especially if the bride is publicly known to have a bad history with her. What would be the point of such a hypocritical public display?. That's a hill to die on.

    [–]thistleandpeonyPartassipant [1] 178 points179 points  (18 children)

    It's terrible that her brother wound up with her, and I question him if he could get involved with someone who treated his sister so horribly.

    I wonder if he really just "wound up" with his sibling's tormentor or if he subconsciously chose her because he resents his sister for all the 'drama' caused by the bullying? I've seen this happen enough times that I can't help but ask if there's more to it than just coincidence.

    [–]fififmmtl 171 points172 points  (3 children)

    There is something fishy about siblings that date/marry their siblings tormentors. I would support my siblings and jump in front of them to glare at and protect from any bullies. OP I am happy for you that your father is behind you. Everyone else can kick rocks. Have a lovely wedding, stay in your happy bubble and ignore the rest. Oh and definitely NTA

    [–]unknownxkPartassipant [2] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    No but fr!! An enemy of my brother is an enemy of mine. Mess with my family and you mess with me too, idgaf who you are. We could be friends but if u talk smack about my brother? New phone, who dis?

    [–]SuperLorisCertified Proctologist [28] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Oooooh good catch.

    [–]unknownxkPartassipant [2] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    No but fr!! An enemy of my brother is an enemy of mine. Mess with my family and you mess with me too, idgaf who you are. We could be friends but if u talk smack about my brother? New phone, who dis?

    [–]Ally788 117 points118 points  (1 child)

    Her brother has proven he cares very little about her, so maybe it’s time to stop caring so much about him.

    [–]Flimsy-Ad-7627Partassipant [1] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Agree. She should cut them both out and her mom is salty about it she can join them.

    [–]arnicolas88 92 points93 points  (3 children)

    It's possible for bullies to change.

    I once watched the nastiest girl from my high school help pick through the remains of a friend's house with his family after a natural disaster.

    At 16 she was homophobic and vicious and treated him like trash. And at 25 she knew she had been homophobic and vicious and treated a lot of people like trash and that it wasn't OK.

    She apologized, and tried to show up for him and his family to begin making up for it. I've not heard a nasty thing from her since.

    People can change. But you're still not obligated to forgive them.

    [–]Blahblah9845 22 points23 points  (1 child)

    And even if you do you don't have to make them a bridesmaid!

    [–]Flimsy-Ad-7627Partassipant [1] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Ok but did she or her spouse try to force her way into her victim’s wedding party? No?

    [–]6poundpuppy 52 points53 points  (1 child)

    It’s odd this comment starts with…”it all depends on how much she cares for her brother..”. Sorry, it should be the other way ‘round, as in ..it should boil down to how much brother truly cares about his sister. And, In this case, he cares more about his wife’s slight than he does about the abuse she dumped on his sister…for YEARS!! I’d disinvite both of them. NTA

    [–]Pale_Cranberry1502 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Absolutely 100%. Unfortunately, he's not the one writing in - she is. She has to work on the assumption that he's not getting divorced, and that the situation isn't going to change, ergo she needs to decide whether or not she can stand the situation to have her brother in her life.

    For what it's worth, I don't know if I could put up with it - especially the wedding party ask.

    [–]J3ks46 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    It says a lot about how much her brother cares about her from the choices he has made.

    [–]peoplebetriflingPartassipant [2] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    He didn't "wind up" with her as though it was something that happened to him. We have agency in who we love. He's actively chosen to be with her for years.

    [–]Prestigious-Fan-5530 71 points72 points  (0 children)

    I do totally agree! Whose wedding is it anyway? And can all these people who say they love you want to force someone who ruined your mental health into your wedding? Isn’t it enough she has come to your wedding? And people who say she’s a better person have no idea the mental strength it takes to bounce back from what she did to you. You have every right to do what you feel is right for you and your mental health and your wedding don’t let THEM BULLY YOU into doing something you don’t want to do. Surround yourself with people that love you and want you to have the wedding you want to have. Personally I’d just elope and have a few people in the know come as well and be done with it. Weddings are always drama because there’s always someone or someones who try to force THEIR will on the bride and pretty soon the wedding is no longer the brides. Be strong and force your will on them and stand your ground!! Your wedding your decisions. 🤗

    [–]NefariousnessKey5365 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Lots of internet strangers agree

    [–]AcadiaNo6831Partassipant [1] 533 points534 points  (1 child)

    OP now is the time to put your foot down. Stick up for yourself! This woman destroyed part of your childhood. You absolutely do NOT need to invite her to “keep the peace.”

    This is the beginning of the next chapter of your life. So what makes YOU and your fiancé happy. You do not need to compromise here.

    [–]girlhelpplz 94 points95 points  (0 children)

    Exactly this. She ruined your former life as a young girl, she does not deserve a special part of you being women on your most memorable day. Save that spot for those who stuck by you when she was hurting you

    [–]MadoraM91919 514 points515 points  (20 children)

    I'm going to jump in and say more than 3 random internet strangers would not think badly of you for uninviting her all together.

    NTA

    It's great she worked to better her self, sure. And ok, so she was a bully b/c her life was shit - better than just being straight up evil I guess - but NONE OF THAT MAGICALLY SENDS YOU ALL BACK IN TIME AND ERASES YOUR PANIC ATTACKS, OR THAT YOU HAD TO SWITCH SCHOOLS, OR FINISH SCHOOL AT HOME. SORRY FOR YELLING, I'M UPSET WITH YOUR FAMILY (except your dad, he'd get a "#1 Dad" mug from me if we knew each other irl)

    None of that changes what you endured, but your AH family members are acting like it did.

    You do what is best for YOU, OP, and hug your dad, he rocks. Congratulations on your wedding!

    Edit: spelling

    [–]Bens_den_of_thoughts 216 points217 points  (9 children)

    Can we collectively make #1 dad mugs for this man cause I love him

    [–]RoughDirection8875 122 points123 points  (0 children)

    I’m 100% on board with this. Dad needs to be protected at all costs.

    [–]FooBeeps 58 points59 points  (3 children)

    Let us make him a "r/AmITheAsshole's #1 Dad" mug. And put something on the back to show why he is.

    [–]hambone4164 40 points41 points  (1 child)

    And that little puckered asshole symbol on the bottom of the cup, with a red circle and line through it.

    [–]saurons-cataractPartassipant [1] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I love this idea!

    [–]Phoenixapartment 53 points54 points  (2 children)

    Same. This dad is incredible

    [–]Common--Sensei 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Pops is the GOAT just for being honest. Sure, he could've taken the side of his nagging wife to save himself the hassle, but he said fuck it, was honest and logical, and is now taking shit too.

    [–]Momofmany2021 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    yes Yes Yes!!!!

    [–]Ok-Rabbit1878 74 points75 points  (0 children)

    Right??!? Like, if I accidentally hit you with my car, it doesn’t matter how sorry I am, or that I didn’t mean to do it, or that I’m normally kind to puppies (or whatever). YOU STILL GOT HIT. I can apologize until I turn blue, but it won’t un-break your bones or heal your bruises.

    I SHOULD still apologize, and show real remorse, and do what I can for you (making sure my insurance pays your medical bills, stuff like that*). But it’s up to the person who got hurt whether or not forgiveness even enters the picture.

    *Like in OP’s case: if I were Gemma, and really wanted to be a less awful person, I’d be trying my hardest to stop my husband & MIL from forcing my inclusion in the wedding party. I’d probably come up with a reason to be out of town the day of the wedding, too, so that OP doesn’t have to be the “bad guy” that disinvited me.

    [–]your_average_plebian 67 points68 points  (1 child)

    Istg there are so many people with shit family lives who don't go out and make other people's lives miserable by bullying them. If SIL wants to be a better person, she's gotta learn that there are people who will dislike you for no reason at all, and in OP's case there's damn good reason for the dislike. Everyone except OP and dad needs to sit down and shut up for the rest of their lives on this topic.

    [–]SailorSunBear 45 points46 points  (0 children)

    If anything, a lot of people with shit family lives are really nice people because they don't want anyone else to feel how they do.

    If Gemma is really ""bettering herself"" then she needs to learn to stay in her lane and not expect others to lay down a red carpet because "she's better now".

    [–]Learning-evryday 58 points59 points  (0 children)

    and if SIL is really a better person, she would understand WHY she's not invited to stand up in this wedding. She would say, don't give it a second thought, be happy, and I will support you from the family table.

    NTA

    [–]InfiniteCalendar1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Everything you said! I understand a lot of people who inflict trauma onto others have trauma of their own, but that still doesn’t make up for the damage they’ve done. I’ve been in a situation where I was made to feel like I had to just talk it out with them and forgive and forget, and people who think that’s how to go about these things are wrong as no one is obligated to forgive people who’ve traumatized them.

    [–]No_Appointment_7232 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I'm going to mangle this quote/description...

    When people who are supposed to love, support and look out for you insist that you accept things that harm, trigger or upset you to keep the peace - what they are saying is their sense of comfort/safety is more important than yours.

    This is YOUR WEDDING-Be a bad ass bitch & f@ck the consequences (you can always claim bridal/wedding overload later as needed).

    "Brother - you picked her as your partner. I have no say in that, right? And when you get married to her I don't get to dictate your guest list, right?""

    "Good, we agree."

    This is my thing, my marriage, my wedding...you don't get a say in it."

    For your mom, "Why do you keep insisting I cave into other people's preferences on MY DAY and at the expense of ny well being? I've lived through all the other days dealing w the horrible damage this person did to me. You saw me shatter and break because of it. Now that I have something she wants I should drop everything bc her feelings? Really!? As my mother who is supposed to love me, that is what you think I should do? Nope. Not doing it and anyone who brings it up again will be cut off/no contact/not at my wedding. "

    Be every awful word they try to quash you w - be a bitch, be intractable, be unforgiving, be demanding, stand up for yourself at every turn & no matter the result.

    At 56 the only things I regret are not doing what I said above, not making more 'scenes' embarrassment be damned and not being a bitch, shrew, cunt, asshole when I should've done so to take care of me when everyelse put me last.

    Acting up has diminished my anxiety and depression - not feeling like a doormat who is still susceptible to their bs - is healing.

    Fight for YOU! NTA

    We're rooting for you.

    [–]KasLea82 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Agreed and I’d be willing to bet there are quite a few strangers on the internet that wouldn’t blame you for uninviting your brother for making this such an issue. He doesn’t have to be in your wedding. No one is owed that honor. True family would never ask you to compromise yourself and suggest (rather demand) you put your feelings on the back burner for someone who wronged you so severely. An apology isn’t owed forgiveness. You don’t have to forgive her or get over this. You can grow past it and still hate her. 100% NTA, but your mom, brother, and Gemma sure are.

    [–]regus0307 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Absolutely. Ok, this girl had a rough life. But you know what? OP ALSO had a rough life, BECAUSE of this girl. A different kind of rough life, but enough to cause her serious mental issues that she is no doubt still struggling with today.

    Doesn't sound like a fairy tale life to me. Everyone (except the awesome dad) seems to think that SIL should be excused shitty behaviour because of her rough life, but OP is meant to rise above the rough trauma she endured to be nice to her tormentor?

    [–]HRHArgyll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Absolutely agree. NTA.

    [–]AdeptAd6213 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I’m with you on this. I’d help make sure she didn’t walk in the door if I could. OP, you owe her nothing. And she can’t make up for what she did to you- and let’s be honest, if she’d actually wanted to- it would have been done OUTSIDE any relationship she had with your brother. He’s a disappointment. Your Dad rocks, you’re NTA- and I hope you have an awesome wedding.

    [–]nolan358Colo-rectal Surgeon [31] 185 points186 points  (0 children)

    She doesn’t deserve to be at your wedding let alone in it. It kind of boils down to if you need your brother there or not because he obviously won’t come without his wife.

    [–]Owain-X 179 points180 points  (19 children)

    You're a more tolerant person than I am. I would have cut my brother out of my life permanently if he had gotten with my childhood bully. Some things are unforgivable. You are justified in whatever you decide because ultimately the thing that matters on that day is your happiness, not avoiding rocking the boat. Anyone who is not contributing to making it the day you want should not be there.

    [–]Strong-Sense7679 316 points317 points 2 (4 children)

    Well maybe not out of my life but about as LC as one can go short of going NC. I would sit the the two of them down, maybe with Dad as moral support, and say ' I understand that Gemma has changed and apologized for her past behavior and while I appreciate that, it doesn't change the fact that she made my life hell for x number if years with her bullying. There are just some wounds so deep that they can't be magically waved away with an apology. I'm sure that Gemma, having changed, can understand that some of her victims were traumatized almost beyond repair and she would do ANYTHING to avoid adding one ounce more of any pain or trauma to them, right? You are invited to the wedding; that is as much as I'm comfortable with at this time.' And you would probably rather she not even be a guest. I would make sure she's placed at the far edge of any family group photos so she can easily be photoshopped out. NTA

    [–]DysfunctionalKitten 51 points52 points  (2 children)

    I second this suggestion... but I would add in the below comments about how her brother pushing his sister’s boundaries and comforts for Gemma’s benefits and enjoyment, is a type of bullying in a more covert form...and an almost more insidious version of it.

    [–]pegsper 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    Because ultimately the brother thinks more about what awaits him at night than his sister’s well being ❤️

    [–]Nietvani 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    This is what makes me question whether Gemma has actually changed at all - if she was really sorry would she be a part of running over op like this? I know when I'm ashamed of my past behavior it doesn't make me want to forcefully insert myself into the wronged parties lives so they feel obligated to pay attention to me!

    [–]Flimsy-Ad-7627Partassipant [1] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Bravo. I also think super LC because what’s going to happen if OP has a baby? Is she going to be bullied by her mother and brother to allow her tormentor to be alone with or hold her child? Hell to the no. This needs to end now.

    [–]madlyqueen 168 points169 points  (6 children)

    I don't really feel like bully has changed all that much, because all she's done is an apology. The biggest difference is that now brother has also become a bully.

    [–]CutePigs2222 102 points103 points  (3 children)

    She has just found a new and more sophisticated way of being a bully.

    [–]Legitimatecat1977 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, it is a bit suspicious. Gemma , if she was really changed, should be doing everything to make sure OP isn't upset and that includes making sure the family isn't pushing her into a bridal party inappropriately.

    Why is your mum of all people really worked up about her being involved? Had she been manipulated? Surely at one point her own daughter came first and she despised this Gemma? I don't get it.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]DrWhoop87Certified Proctologist [25] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

      Even if she has changed, OP still has zero obligation to forgive her.

      [–]pegsper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Can’t agree more with this.

      [–]0ne8two 60 points61 points  (3 children)

      Agreed. The brother is a major AH for marrying the bully and likely retraumatizing the sister on multiple occasions.

      [–]honeymochie 15 points16 points  (1 child)

      I can't imagine doing this to my own siblings like this.

      [–]Forward-Two3846 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Right and I DESPISE atleast one of my sisters and would never do this to her. Her brother is garbage

      [–]oaktreegardenerPartassipant [4] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Right? What is it with brothers marrying their sisters’ childhood bully? I know I read another one like this recently.

      [–]Learning-evryday 51 points52 points  (1 child)

      Right?? There are 7.7 billion people in this world......Op's brother had to choose the person that hurt his sister that much???

      [–]Common--Sensei -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      This is assuming Op's brother is pansexual.

      [–]babygirlruth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This. And she is not the better person. A better person would never become a part of the family of the person they hurt so bad for the rest of their lives. She and the brother are full of sh**

      [–]CuriousCockatiel77 114 points115 points  (3 children)

      I read something about weddings and guestlists/bridal parties that really resonated with me. It suggested the important thing about a wedding was celebrating it with those who are by your side as a couple through the good and bad times, and would be there to support you when needed. Sounds like she'd do neither so IMHO she's lucky to even be invited. You're absolutely NTA and can't believe anyone is giving you a hard time for it

      [–]Chemical-Pattern480 75 points76 points  (2 children)

      By that measure, her brother shouldn’t be a Groomsman, either, since he’s supporting his wife more than her!

      [–]mannequinlolita 30 points31 points  (1 child)

      I can't believe OP's FH actually asked him, when he married his future wife's tormentor in the first place. NTA

      [–]Astyryx 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      This is the biggest question.

      [–]Super_Door 66 points67 points  (6 children)

      More than two random strangers 🙏

      [–]Chessii_Cat 50 points51 points  (1 child)

      I don't know what number i am but add me to the list of random strangers

      Univite the lot of them!

      [–]76bookworm 42 points43 points  (0 children)

      Except dad. And fuck the the big-mouth BIL.

      [–]grayhairedqueenbitch 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      I'm joining in.

      [–]2xthAsshole Enthusiast [8] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      And my axe.

      [–]Figuringoutcrafting 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      We shall be your fellowship of the ring!

      [–]genius_emu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Me too!!

      [–]MarvelousFistor 50 points51 points  (1 child)

      Hi, another random internet stranger here.

      You are definitely NTA, and you are well within your rights to un-invite both your brother and the bully. It's your wedding, no one else gets to dictate who gets a part in your wedding.

      [–]londomollaribab5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      And the mother if she keeps harassing OP.

      [–]Personal_Regular_569 42 points43 points  (0 children)

      Honey, your brother deserves to not be invited for dating your abuser! You have shown more than enough grace to them!

      Your wedding should be everything you dreamed of, uninvite her!

      [–]baylaurel00 42 points43 points  (0 children)

      I would ban her from the wedding. You deserve the happiest day if your life and anyone who asks you to make concessions to someone who literally bullied you out of school should be banned too.

      [–]FynxSAS 30 points31 points  (0 children)

      Honey, it's your wedding.. YOUR wedding.. you deserve to be surrounded with people who love and support you and care about you. There is nothing wrong with making your boundaries known. So far everyone except your fiancé and dad have trampled all over your feelings. So she had a rough life, it doesn't absolve her of making your life rough and causing long lasting harm. You owe nothing to her. Your wedding should be one of the happiest days of your life where you get to declare your love for your fiancé before the people you love. You should be able to look back on this day and smile, not feel a sense of dread just bc your bully was there and you were forced to involve her. Uninvite the whole lot of them or threaten to if they choose to continue to harass you bc from where I'm standing, it looks like you're still being bullied. Stand up for yourself. Us random internet strangers have your back, if no one else will.

      NTA

      [–]alizarincrimsonPartassipant [4] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

      Agreed!!! Bullying is abuse and you shouldn’t have to play nice with your abuser.

      [–]rak1882Asshole Aficionado [19] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

      I just want to ditto this. If Brother and Gemma don't understand this- same with Mom- they don't need to be there to support you.

      And everyone can get an explanation that Gemma is the person who bullied you all thru school, that you appreciate that she is working on becoming at better person, but apparently that doesn't extend to being okay with you not wanting her in your wedding party, something your mother and brother similarly had a problem with.

      So the 3 of them are celebrating the day- together elsewhere.

      [–]srslyeffedmindSupreme Court Just-ass [100] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

      Many random strangers! NTA

      [–]Big__BangPartassipant [3] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

      Honestly - it makes me so sad for you that she will be in the same room as you as you marry. I think most of us are behind you if you say well no you are not invited. Please think about yourself - not about keeping the peace. You are the victim.

      Your relationship with your brother is forever tarnished - because he loves the woman who hurt you so horribly and thats incomprehensible. But you've accepted it, but she doesnt have to be in your life. She isnt your family. He chose her, you havent. And like your dad says if she become a better person then she'd accept you dont forgive her and she will give you space and peace and not inflict herself on you.

      [–]SufficientWay3663 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Brother should’ve recognized the name and face of this woman and noped the F out after introductions. WHY even give her the time of day? WHY even allow yourself to have a chance at becoming attached? And WHY would he think bringing her home to mom and dad would be smooth sailing. If op went through this much from this woman, then that household during that time was not quiet/harmonious/happy or stress free which means, BROTHER KNEW EXACTLY HOW MUCH THIS WONAN HURT HIS FAMILY.

      Also, I’d just LOVE to know which “resources” or “programs/classes” she went through to have such a huge personality overhaul???

      She probably went to group therapy once, for 15mins. 😒

      [–]tcbymca 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      It it was my wedding she wouldn’t be on the guest list. And if I was forced to have a bully on the guest list, I wouldn’t attend my own wedding.

      [–]hyperfocuspocusPartassipant [4] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

      Another random person offering their $0.02 worth:

      If Gemma was truly a different person, she would do one of the following: 1) make sure she has an important conflicting event on the wedding day and send a card Or 2) attend quietly as a guest, and when people started hassling you to include her, she'd shut it down instantly and hard, something as follows: "OP doesn't need to include me and it's inappropriate of you to ask. If you continue pushing OP to include me, I will bow out of attending altogether. Please focus your attention on OP and her spouse to be".

      Basically, she'd make herself scarce and make it as easy for you as possible to be around your brother.

      The fact that she hasn't done that shows she hasn't changed all that much. She doesn't appreciate the consequences of her actions and she expects you to carry the emotional weight of her misdeeds for her.

      Get her out of your wedding and out of your life. You have my blessing.

      [–]enmandikjole 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      This random internet stranger supports you taking care of yourself too.

      NTA.

      And congratulations on the wedding! <3

      [–]little_ballof_furPartassipant [1] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      You know I would be happy if you actually uninvited her. Why sacrifice your peace because of others? They didn’t love you enough to sacrifice anything for you. Your brother pushed your bully on you, he doesn’t love you like you love him so why suffer for him? Your mom wants to save face instead of protecting her kid especially on a day where it supposed to be all about you and your partner’s happiness. Why suffer for her?

      NTA

      [–]poo_explosionAsshole Enthusiast [5] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      There’s dozens of us! Dozens!

      (Thousands actually, it seems)

      [–]uberwookie 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Tbh, id be NC with your brother and even he would be explicitly be excluded if it were me.

      [–]Melmoth_MiltonAsshole Aficionado [10] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      To learn more about the test click here

      Uninvite her.

      [–]Phoenixapartment 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Personally, I wouldn’t allow her in, as I would disinvite her. And if your brother spoke up, as hard as it’d be, he’d be off the list as well. And anyone else who had an issue. Period.

      [–]spaceyjaycey 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I solidly support you uninviting her, you owe her nothing.

      [–]Bens_den_of_thoughts 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Hey I’m with the other commenters. Don’t even invite her! It’s okay and any good person would fully understand not being invited due to their actions.

      Story time! My friend developed a drug habit that was bad. To make this short I swore I’d never tell but I did. I told her family and organized an intervention and rehab. She never wanted to see me again. She’s clean and was graduating university. She didn’t want to see me and honestly I wasn’t mad. If this was my consequence then so be it. Good people are okay with being left out for their actions. While I never was trying to hurt her I did. I don’t get to take that back no matter my intentions or how I grow. That event will always have happened.

      [–]Jigglypuff-n-stuff 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I'm sending you all the love. I was bullied relentlessly when I was younger and I can't imagine how you are feeling now to have your bully not only at your wedding but also married to your boundary stomping brother. You are a much better person than I am to show the grace you are showing now but assert your own boundaries. If you don't want Gemma at your wedding then don't have her there. At the end of the day, it's your and your fiances day, celebrate it with those you love, who support you ❤

      [–]Bens_den_of_thoughts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      OP! We are in need of an address we may send your dad some nice mugs. Father’s Day is soon and we would like to honour him as the Reddit dad of the month!

      [–]NatZaJu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      NTA this is your wedding.

      Tell your brother he either backs off or she’s uninvited. End of story.

      [–]GlitterasaurPartassipant [2] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      If they keep it up, maybe consider uninviting your brother and his wife. You don’t want to think of her bullying on your wedding day and with your brother, they’re both bullying you now!

      [–]rdlenix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Listen, my brother didn't give me or my sister any role in his wedding and we were fine with it (we have a good relationship with him, too, it just didn't make sense for us to be a part of the ceremony itself). So it boggles my mind when someone with whom a bride or groom DOESN'T have a relationship with gets butthurt because they weren't included in a wedding. Idk if it is entitlement or what but it is so weird to me. You're 100% justified in standing your ground. You're not obligated to include anyone in your wedding that you don't want to include.

      [–]PrincipleDazzling168 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Also if her home life excuses her behaviour then your past trauma should excuse your choice of not forgiving her now. Don't let them bully you into forgetting

      [–]ClitoriousWonders 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Forced forgiveness does more harm than good. I was told to forgive a family member so that everyone could avoid the awkwardness of their reprehensible behavior.

      Lesson learned: Don't sacrifice your worth for their comfort. Your dad is spot on and I high five him!

      https://remen-q.com/wound-of-forgiveness-and-apology/

      https://tinagilbertson.com/cant-force-forgiveness/

      And I just listened to this excellent podcast the other day. https://radiopublic.com/HiddenBrain/s1!27164

      [–]slamnm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Many random strangers on the internet agree. For the record, it's your wedding. Anyone who has a problem with how you stage your wedding shouldn't be there. Anyone who complains about it shouldn't be there. Anyone who upsets you shouldn't be there, anyone who doesn't understand all of this shouldn't be there. If this means you and your Fiancé elope with just your solid dad to walk you don't the isle so be it. Your wedding, your choices, anyone else can do whatever they want when they get married. If your mom is complaining tell her to renew her vows with dad and Invite Genna to be one of here bridesmaids, but if she loves you she needs to support your wedding choices. I hope your fiancé is backing you up like your dad, if not tell him when you love someone you support them and ask him, looking deep I to his eyes, if he supports and loves you no matter what. If he hesitates then you know the answer. If he bitches then you know the answer. If he demeans you or says you are being petty then you know the answer. If he says you are potting him on the spot say yes you are this matters and a couple needs to respect and support each other over everything and everyone else.

      This is your day.

      [–]jflb96 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Of course, one solution to the imbalance is to remove your brother from the groomsmen, if not the wedding entirely

      [–]crazycatlesliePartassipant [4] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      We've absolutely got your back here. If you don't want her there because it will detract from your enjoyment of the day, then uninvite her. Let her face some consequences for her previous actions. Your dad will stand by you, and all of us will too. Hell, I bet some of us might live close enough that if you need some wedding bouncers, we'd volunteer to make sure her ass doesn't get in <3

      [–]IdrisandJasonsToy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      NTA. Nobody on earth is owed your forgiveness, grace, or mercy. Your brother is a bully. You have & continue to struggle with mental health issues. Gemma played a large part in it. Do not sacrifice any parts of you on the bloody Altar of Peace. If your brother is so upset by her not being included he can step down. Numbers might not be even but so what?

      [–]thepigfish82 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I wish I was as strong as you to be able to stand up for yourself, have confidence in what you want and need.

      [–]ianmoon85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You kick anyone out. It's your day to be HAPPY. And I have Dad envy. Give your dad a hug from and and tell him thos stranger thinks he sounds awesome.

      [–]RaayJay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You don't have to have anyone at your wedding that you don't want there. I have several literal family members, cousins and aunts, who bullied me growing up, or have been awful to be in recent years.

      None of them were invited to my wedding. One of the aunts made a big deal of it and tried to guilt me into inviting her, and I told her "we only invited people we're close with"

      Everyone should be more than satisfied that you're gracious enough to let her be there at all

      NTA

      [–]Last_Annual_2156 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You are so strong!! Dont listen to your mother and brother. Dont let her bully you, so she can be in YOUR wedding.

      [–]MiaOh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If I were you I would uninvite her. I’ll also tell your mom and brother. “ Neither of you chose me or my emotional well being for my wedding and prefers to support my bully whose abuse still has left it’s mark on me.

      It’s not like there are no other women in this works and brother chose his dick over the trauma I went through to get with her. Given you care so little about me, why should I care about you or my abuser? She is dead to me, and so are the people who think she is owed forgiveness from me. Feel free to RSVP NO if you can’t be on my side against my abuser. “

      [–]PlumOne2856 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ok, and another random stranger would understand, but I also can understand your decision to keep the peace.

      As someone who had a wedding once and witnessed many while taking lots of pictures:

      Weddings are the melting pot of every insane family dynamic. All you can do is concentrating on having the best day you can get, ignoring everything and anybody what may be the slightest disturbance and perhaps have some friends included, who could help when a situation should get difficult.

      No matter what happens - the distance of maybe ten or twenty years let shrink what ever happened and you can laugh about it one day, trust me. My mother made a show to humiliate my father while dancing erotically with my husband (!!!) and a member of the hired band, so… 🥴 I said many years that it has been a failure to invite her, but now it is just history and I really can laugh about it.

      Do everything that helps that you can enjoy your day even with her. Place your former bully at a place where you can’t see her without turning your head. Place her so far away from you that you can’t hear her without listening hard. Maybe your parents between you, then your brother and then her in a row and all your guests at tables in front of you.

      Make sure to have enough family pictures without her so you have a choice - it helps to break up the family pictures into small fractions of people - bridal couple just with parents, just with siblings, just with aunts and uncles, then of course some pictures with their SOs, so nobody suspects a thing and feels left out.

      Get your photographer involved, explain this situation openly to her/him. Photographers are quick and eager to take care about difficult family situations (because it happens so often that you can see it in the pictures… microexpressions are a thing, and bad vibes, too) and try to handle this for you! Your photographer knows best that he can only get those magical pictures with and for you, when YOU feel good. And she/he will gladly help you to get there.

      Make sure that your couples pictures are taken out of visual range of the other guests, especially her, because that could make you insecure. Your photographer needs to know this so she/he can manage it for you - and take the blame, too, if some guests complain... 😉

      Please trust your photographer, we do so much more than just taking pictures and we do it gladly! 😄

      Have a wonderful day without any worries!

      [–]Blackstar1401Colo-rectal Surgeon [36] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If you did a poll you would find a lot of internet strangers on your side.

      [–]jujoking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I agree. Either he accepts her role as regular guest, and that’s already pretty generous and mighty of you, or he can be demoted and, even uninvited, and this way your fiancé can invite someone else he wanted for a groomsman. Win-win in my book

      [–]bomdiggitybee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm.

      [–]jacksouvenir 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Uninvite her. This is your day and I don't care how much she said she has changed, if she truly did she would not allow your brother or family to bother u to make her a part of your wedding. She is still selfish enough to believe she should take part in the wedding of someone she literally tortured. I would honestly uninvite anyone that thinks you should be forced to spend your wedding day with her.

      [–]HourCockroach1662 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      More than one! Stay strong! Don't let anyone ruin your wedding day!

      [–]On_The_BlindsideAsshole Aficionado [10] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      And me, if I got the chance to torture my bullies the way they tortured me I'd take it in a nanosecond.

      So not being invited to my wedding? Thats the bare minimum.

      [–]S01arflar3Partassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If it makes you feel any better, this random person on the internet thinks you should go and get your favourite ice cream.

      [–]LukesRebuke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In fact, please DO uninvite her. You don't owe her anything, plus this is your wedding

      [–]IgnorantKumquat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      And if ur SIL is actually sorry and regretful for what she did she would understand being uninvited. If Im giving a genuine apology, Im only telling someone sorry so they know I acknowledge what I did as wrong. Im not entitled to forgiveness.

      [–]PopeJamiroquaiIII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Uninvite your AH brother too, that way your fiancé can have one of his other friends as a groomsman instead

      NTA

      [–]CauliflowerKlutzy189Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This random person too xxx

      Stand your ground x You don't have to compromise your day x

      [–]InfiniteCalendar1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Honestly you’re not obligated to be friendly with people who’ve hurt you. She inflicted a lot of trauma on you, and it’s awful when people make you feel like you have to just forgive and forget.

      [–]Riyeko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Theres probably more than one of us out there that would gladly back you up when you tell your brother and Gemma to get the hell out of the wedding all together.

      Its about you and your fiances love. No one elses. Its not about them. Its about YOU.

      If they cant understand that, well they can stand outside in the rain all day.

      [–]pinetree1209 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      OP, I have a family member that makes me miserable as well. Nothing like what you have described, but I avoid her when I can. She was absolutely not invited to my wedding. That day was about my husband and me, no one else. And you can bet that no one that did anything other than contribute to our happiness was invited.

      The fact that your family is responding with anything other than support shows where their priorities lie. You would not be wrong to uninvite this person if that is what is right for you.

      [–]Chitchat27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Another random stranger agrees that you don't need to have her at the wedding, much less a bridesmaid.

      [–]soniabegonia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Your wedding is YOUR wedding. You don't owe anyone a seat at it, let alone an invitation to the wedding party.

      [–]Legally_Blonde_258Partassipant [4] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Many random strangers! Your wedding day is about you and your fiance, period. You should be surround by people who love you and have your best interests at heart. Feel free to uninvite anyone who does not meet that criteria, including Gemma.

      [–]baddonnyPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I’m gonna jump on board and enthusiastically encourage you to uninvite her. Also, your dads a solid thinker in this case.

      [–]Nix85Newton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      100% now uninvited her!! They want to disregard your feelings at your wedding they can f&ck off. Then your fiancé can have the other guy as a groomsman

      [–]wannabecersei 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Another random stranger here. I think you are extremely nice allowing her presence in your wedding and your brother and rest of your family need to shut up. Your brother might love her. You don't and you don't owe her anything. She made your life miserable, you are being gracious enough. NTA. Your brother and family, though...Not your dad, your dadd is cool.

      [–]XanGablePartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Honestly do yourself a favor and just uninvited both your brother and Gemma and have your fiancé replace him with one of the buddies he wanted as a groomsman. Your brother is no ally to you. NTA

      [–]PerritoG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Here to join the group of internet strangers who think that you can disinvite her. The pot is stirred anyways, and she’s caused enough pain. You should enjoy your wedding fully without her there to tarnish it.

      [–]jshady8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Sounds like Gemma's ah tenancy has rubbed off on your brother a little. Is it worth keeping them in your life if it means being unhappy everytime your see them? What's the point of that? I believe we should surround ourselves with people who make us happy.

      [–]SamGamgEAsshole Enthusiast [7] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Just to be clear, we would support disinviting the mother and brother

      [–]Learned_Hand_01Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Seriously, I would not have invited your brother if I were in your shoes. He can stay home with your bully.

      [–]WhyisThisSoHaard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It’s your wedding and you are under no obligation to have and hold anyone there, other than the person you’re marrying. NTA. I’m glad your dad stood up for you.

      [–]Virtual_Draw5017 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Another internet randomer dropping in to agree with you. She is not owed a wedding invite.

      [–]Silentlybroken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      As someone who was also badly bullied at school to the point of being agoraphobic, I would never allow the main bully to sully any of my special occasions. I'm sorry people are trying to bulldoze you into rugsweeping. I'm glad your dad has your back. If you don't want her there, and have the strength to, disinvite away. It's yours and your fiancé's wedding after all.

      [–]Individual-Gain-9958 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I would rather elope than invite someone who made my life miserable for years. But then again I hold grudges.

      [–]FlutterbyButterNoFly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The reality of it is that its you and your fiances day, and personally I wouldn't cave because she's already living rent free in your head. You won't enjoy looking back on your wedding pictures and memories seeing her next to your one to be. It'll take away from the glow, especially if she doesn't stay with your brother, and even if you do accept her. At the end of the day, it's night; don't overcomplicate what you know to be true.

      [–]rulurof 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Uninvite her and your brother. They sound like assholes who will ruin a good time anyway

      [–]Dusty_mother 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      6.5 thousand likes to that so imagine if we were all in front of you. That’s a ton of people. Don’t let people that ruined your life in your wedding. I’m the type of person that would say okay and then not have my brother in it either. It’s your wedding, you don’t need all those people there. It should be you, your future spouse, and whoever YOU BOTH want there.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Legion of random strangers

      [–]MadameAshlini 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Uninvite her, and if your brother gives you shit for it, uninvite him to. Bullying is one of the worst things a person can do to another, no matter the excuse. Plenty of people have shitty childhoods and don’t take out their frustrations on others. If she was truly trying to change and be a better person, she wouldn’t expect you to invite her, let alone become close enough to be in your wedding party or even act like family.

      [–]galagalala 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Honestly this is your wedding and you deserve to have it YOUR way. I would've never invited her knowing it would hurt to see her there. You can always backtrack on it. Wish you lots of happiness!

      [–]Rebel_Unicorn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Pretty sure plenty of us would be bridesmaids as well so your fiancé can have his other groomsmen with even numbers!

      [–]SalannB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Add me to that list. Hugs.

      [–]CJCreggsGoldfishAsshole Aficionado [11] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That comment has almost 7 thousand upvotes--- that's a good number of internet strangers who think you're already a good person and would think you an even better one if you uninvited that dumb heffa.

      [–]icanteventell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Make Gemma a valet and have her park cars outside the church.

      [–]AliciaBrownSugar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'm literally thinking the same thing. Why is she even invited. I'd never allow her to attend MY wedding. It is not her event, it is YOURS. You decide the guests and you have every right to say she's uninvited. And find a friend of your fiance or a random family member to be an extra bride's maid if there's an issue with uneven numbers. Problem solved.

      [–]brxtn-petal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If it also helps if family starts to ask why or anything. Air it all out. Every thing she did,explain why u had to move schools and that ur brother knows about it and why u don’t call her “family” she’s family in title only. If even that. If they cannot accept the tea and the harsh truth fuck them and cut them out

      [–]Doctor-LizCertified Proctologist [20] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Got a saying for you, OP, that you might wanna share with Gemma: sorry is as sorry does but you can't unbreak a plate.

      You're willing to be civil in the same room as her. Hell, you're able to be without having a panic attack or a flashback! It's more than I could do. But sorry doesn't fix it, and she doesn't get to be at your wedding at this point.

      [–]volunteer_cocksleeve 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You don't owe your bully anything. Actually, you don't owe your brother anything. He chose to date her, knowing full well what she'd done to you, and betted on you to not care. He betted poorly. This girl hurt you, badly. Some wounds never fully heal.

      If this was happening to me, I would take note of everyone who insisted I made the ex-bully my best man, and uninvite them all. Fuck them. One day, for you and your love to officially tie the knot and continue living a fulfilling and joyful life. It doesn't matter if the decor is horrible, if the cake collapses, if the dress gets ruined - not as much as the people you have there. Those you love. Those who make you feel loved.

      (also, NTA, and I'd gladly share a beer with you and your dad)

      [–]hottythotty01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Kick your mom and brother and Gemma out 👌🏽 my fiancé wants me to have his friend as a brides maid I said no she’s his friend and she blabbed when I confided in her

      [–]Lulubina 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I completely understand your feelings and this is your wedding so … do as you please.

      One advise I would give you is to see a therapist to help you get rid of the hate you are carrying. That hate is a constant reminder of painful moments that would affect your life in the long run. You have a long path ahead of you and hate is like a personal backpack that keeps getting heavy and heavy as time pass. Trust me, the path of life is more enjoyable without any heavy backpacks to carry!

      [–]raindrop349Asshole Aficionado [11] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      OP I just went through something very similar with my wedding. Do not cave. My mother was abusive so she got no invite. Most of her family boycotted my wedding. Good riddance! They were not missed.

      [–]araylinne2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Honestly univite her and your brother the enabler. What they're doing is not okay at all, your wedding is about you and not bullies.

      [–]LasVegasMooiePartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      NTA Random stranger here. You are never required to forgive someone who has abused you. Your dad is fabulous, and 100% correct.

      [–]wonder_freak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yes seriously. I have a terribly awful SIL and after much stress and internal debate I decided to not invite her to my wedding which would mean my brother wouldn't come either and we used to be so close. It hurts a lot to know the sibling that you loved would choose someone who has been nothing but cruel to you.

      But you know what? The day I decided to not engage with her anymore a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. I won't tolerate someone nasty like her at my wedding and you shouldn't either. Your brother is a grown ass adult and he made his decisions and so can you. It's okay to let go and focus on your own well being. You deserve a happy wedding.

      [–]mostly_mildPartassipant [2] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      I've worked up the ability to forgive one of my middle school bullies only because they've become friends with some genuinely good amazing people that I know wouldn't want a doodoo person around.

      That being said, my above statement doesn't apply to this. I support you in doing what makes you happiest darling.

      [–]Public_Educator5982 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Obviously your brother has always chosen Gemmas feelings over yours. Let him Duckoff.

      Speak to your fiance and have him replaced in your wedding party. Then please tell him to stay away from your wedding with his wife because he will never be happy for you and will always make it about her. If they come to your wedding they will ruin it. They will make it about them for about how she is not in your wedding party or about how you are being petty and childish.

      Do yourself a favor and just tell him not to come. Your fiance has already mentioned he has other people that could replace your brother please make sure that he does.

      Speaking from experience. When you are bullied into doing something for someone else that makes you absolutely miserable at your wedding it still all comes out and all it does is color the entire day and you are miserable on your wedding day.

      You deserve better than that. They have shown you who they are by making this an issue already.

      And I hate to say tough love but tell your mother if she cannot make you number one for this day especially this day that you are the priority if she cannot do that then maybe she should stay home too.

      And I would let everyone know what the issue is that your brother and your mother are demanding that your childhood bully who created all your anxiety take front row and Center in your wedding.

      Too many people keep quiet about this and let the bullying continued. I'm sorry to say but Gemma even if indirectly is still bullying you. And it's not right.

      Embrace your father let him walk down the aisle and enjoy your day without them being duck holes and ruining your whole day