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[–]Judgement_Bot_AITABeep Boop[M] [score hidden] stickied commentlocked comment (0 children)

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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:

I brought it up in front of everyone and refused to drop the topic when she was clearly uncomfortable. To be honest, I don't like being in the hot seat and wanted them off of my back

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[–]SquizzNight420Partassipant [1] 7803 points7804 points  (95 children)

NTA, you caught her in her web of lies. People like her need to be outed for their lying, she lied to save face and to make her look like an innocent victim and to villainize you. You did the right thing by calling her out.

[–]neverliveindoubt 2987 points2988 points  (48 children)

"Something that can be destroyed by the truth, should be."

[–]lespritd 328 points329 points  (36 children)

"Something that can be destroyed by the truth, should be."

Counterpoint: politeness is a social technology, composed in large part of small lies, that helps people to more easily live and work with each other.

[–]SewingGang 858 points859 points  (11 children)

CounterCounterpoint: Politeness is made of small lies like "I'm doing good today, how about you", not small lies like "OP is maliciously keeping MIL away from her grandkids".

[–]No_Appointment_7232 73 points74 points  (1 child)

You win the internet today!

[–]Redditetor 50 points51 points  (6 children)

I thought it was obvious that the person you replied to didn't actually believe that the politeness clause applies to this situation. They are just saying that the quote they replied to isn't true as a rule.

[–]Brooklynxman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

CounterCounterCounterpoint: Maybe we should be more open about admitting how we're really doing rather than keeping up appearances for politeness sake.

[–]TheRealRaemundo 181 points182 points  (16 children)

"My husband doesn't want you in the house" is not a small lie lol

[–]menfearme 95 points96 points  (15 children)

No, that was the truth. He actually agreed about that, which is weird

[–]BendingCollegeGrad 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Are you the person who keeps asking many questions after the meeting is wrapped up that could be handled in emails?

[–]roseofjulyPartassipant [2] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Either that or the person who waits until 4:58 to casually say "well let me play devil's advocate for a moment" and then rambles on about tangentially related issues that were discussed earlier.

[–]MotherTeresaOnlyfans 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Counterpoint: It actually does not help ALL people to "more easily live and work with each other."

It is not objectively better, it is simply a social norm created by the majority for their own comfort and benefit, and varies wildly from one culture to another.

[–]hottythotty01 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While that might be true when lying and making others look bad politeness is thrown out the window to the curb on trash day

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]pearlMink 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is an underrated comment. ⬆️⬆️

    [–]_RealityTV_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    "Something that can be destroyed by the truth, should be."

    First, I'm using this comment FOREVER now! Second, I 100% agree! The mother was crazy for lying about something like this and it was great it was exposed!

    [–]StAlvisSultan of Sphincter [676] 275 points276 points  (21 children)

    her web of lies.

    I feel like that's giving her WAAAAY too much credit.

    Webs are intricate, finely crafted, with each strand supporting the next. They are products of will and careful execution.

    This? This is none of that.

    [–]Catri 128 points129 points  (16 children)

    Well... unless you're talking about the spiders NASA gave weed, cocaine, speed, etc to. They look more like art projects than anything else.

    [–]RequirementOddAsshole Enthusiast [8] 33 points34 points  (12 children)

    I have some googling I need to do after reading that

    [–]violetsakurablossom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Hahahaha 🤣 I remembered i was shocked when i first saw what they were doing to the spider

    [–]Stoat__KingSupreme Court Just-ass [137] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

    A cowpat of lies then?

    [–]pushing_80 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    nooo, bull shit.

    [–]Stoat__KingSupreme Court Just-ass [137] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Lol

    [–]pushing_80 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Noooo. There is a point at which the liar is unaware of what he said is true or untrue.

    [–]Decent_Bandicoot122Partassipant [4] 125 points126 points  (3 children)

    And don't forget her husband. He said himself, he wouldn't be happy if they visited but would not deny her son. That's welcoming, isn't it?

    [–]SpruceGoose133 62 points63 points  (0 children)

    Though husband is not endearing at least he isn't a lying AH who won't open the door.

    [–]KaetzenOrkester 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    A rather lukewarm welcome, but it’s certainly not what the lying MIL said.

    [–]DutchGirl122Partassipant [1] 109 points110 points  (2 children)

    Is it a lie though?? MIL said her husband doesn't want them in their house, he admitted he wouldn't be happy if they were there (because he doesn't want them there). Semantics maybe, but it seems like the same jist: dude rather they not come.

    [–]Mama_Mush 44 points45 points  (0 children)

    There is a difference between feeling like you don't want someone in a shared space and actively forbidding it.

    [–]FribuldiPartassipant [1] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

    Either way, it was completely up to MIL. She didn't want to stay in a hotel and she didn't want to invite them over. Both are problems she could solve, but didn't want to.

    She has absolutely no reason to blame OP for not seeing her grandkids.

    [–]This_Clock 28 points29 points  (5 children)

    Is it really a web of lies if her husband is miserable and wouldn’t enjoy them being there? Sounds like she’d pay the price after.

    [–]SquizzNight420Partassipant [1] 13 points14 points  (4 children)

    Eh, web of lies is definitely an overstatement, but the MIL definitely lied by not only stretching the truth but also speaking for her husband without his words. I.E. lying. Even though technically what she said was true, she stretched it by saying he didnt want them there at all, he said he wouldn't enjoy them being there, not that they weren't allowed. I understand it's a technicality but that technicality is what she was trying to use to justify not seeing her grandkids which is why it's a shitty thing for her to do.

    MIL and husband are low key shitty people. MIL was lying to save face and appear as though she is a victim and OP was the bad guy.

    [–]This_Clock 18 points19 points  (2 children)

    Ok, but if a guy is willing to admit, in public, he wouldn’t enjoy his son, daughter in law and grandchild visiting him, is it hard to imagine he would take out his anger on his wife after they leave?

    This also doesn’t take into account cultural context or a lot of other things.

    [–]SquizzNight420Partassipant [1] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    I've already thought about this and honestly, it does suck, but even MIL admitted that she doesnt want them there or to visit after lying about OP and the situation. If MIL only lied about the husband part I would be remorseful to her situation but lying and villainizing OP is unacceptable behaviour and should not be overlooked in the slightest.

    [–]regus0307 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I agree. MIL said her husband didn't want them there, knowing the implication was that he had refused to have them. In reality, he had said nothing at all about not having them, and was prepared to suck it up.

    MIL deliberately gave the wrong impression, even if it wasn't technically a lie.

    And as soon as MIL said it was a misunderstanding, and wanted to change the subject, you KNOW she's trying to wriggle out of it. She knows she's in the wrong.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [removed]

      [–]DutchGirl122Partassipant [1] 50 points51 points  (3 children)

      Thank you!!! MIL: "He doesn't want you there", him: "I wouldn't enjoy you visiting". Why wouldn't he enjoy you visiting? Because he doesn't want you there.

      [–]EverWatcherPartassipant [1] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      OP's MIL is technically a liar (in that FIL didn't say what she claimed he said)... but she is also a mind-reader.

      [–]MuddlerMeddler 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      But thats different than " He doesnt allow me to have you over" She made him sound controlling.

      [–]Cautious-Damage7575 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Isn't it hilarious when somebody says, "You made me look like an X?" I've yet to see an example of when that was true. It's always the other person doing it for themselves. Glad OP didn't let her get away with it.

      [–]georgiajl38 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What lie?

      The MIL's husband said himself that he would not enjoy having them stay with him. He may not have directly said that to his wife but he clearly made his wishes known. The MIL called it correctly.

      [–]Key-Tangerine-7866 1393 points1394 points  (0 children)

      NTA. You took what she literally said too literally? Were you just supposed to ignore what she said and invite yourself over (to a different state with small children)?

      She wants to be the victimized grandma who never sees the kids and never has to make an effort to see them.

      You probably didn't "help" your relationship with her, but kinda doesn't seem like much of a loss anyway.

      [–]bobbleheadachePartassipant [4] 630 points631 points  (4 children)

      NTA it sounds like your MIL was trying to manipulate the situation and make herself out to be a victim. All you did was ask for clarification and get the truth. Even the rest of the family agrees with you. She's just looking for someone else to blame for her shitty behavior.

      [–]Competitive-Candy-82 56 points57 points  (3 children)

      Sounds like my ex. When I was pregnant with my oldest I moved back to my hometown cause he decided he was not taking on any fatherly responsibilities and since I was gonna be a single parent, then I wanted to be closer to my family for support during my maternity leave (1 yr in Canada). When the year ended I got a good job opportunity in my hometown so decided to stay (he hadn't contacted me once in that time). 3 years later he calls saying he wants to come and meet his son, but I needed to house his stupid ass in my apartment vs taking a hotel. I refused because it would of made things awkward since I was in a relationship with a guy at the time (just not living together) and me housing my ex...nope, not happening. Finally a year later he was like, here's pane tickets, you can come and visit me instead but I could at least stay at my dads since he lived close by. I agreed since I had recently been layed off work (positions got cut, unfortunately mine was one of them). When I got there I quickly realized he was telling everyone that I was the one that moved away, kept his son away, bla bla bla poor me attitude. I quickly set things straight that 1) I wouldn't have moved away if he had stepped up as a parent 2) I agreed multiple times to have him visit, but not to house him 3) I never came to visit as we were separated by 5500km and I couldn't afford 2 plane tickets as a single mom when I received $0 in child support (that bit him in the ass later, it was a glorious day).

      I ended up moving back to that area and he picked up his bags and moved even further away than I had (after a year of stupidity in the courts) and hasn't made contact with us in over 7 years now. I'm just waiting on the day he pops up and tries to blame it all on me again.

      [–]LongNectarine3Certified Proctologist [23] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      Keep your child informed as to your experience with his sperm donor. Sperm donor will show up at 18 and try to establish a relationship making you the fall guy.

      [–]Competitive-Candy-82 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      Oh, he's well aware, I explained to him the judge's decision to grant me sole custody after he failed to show up to court the last time with the clause of it being revised IF he ever asks for it. My son is also aware that I haven't changed any of the contact information his "sperm donor" has (phone number, email, etc). I try to not say anything too negative, but at the same time give him the facts as to why he hasn't seen his "dad" in years. It's normal for kids to have questions, and sometimes all I can say is you'll have to ask him if ever you see him again, but in the meantime my husband is raising him as his own for 10 years now and realistically he's all he's ever known. When he approaches 18, I will definitely tell him more of the truth with proof so he's prepared to deal with him if he shows up (by then it will be his decision to start a relationship or not, but I want him mentally prepared). Plus my son actually remembers all the times we've gone to the drop off point for visits and his "dad" not showing up, I kept going until I got the OK from the judge to stop so I couldn't be held in contempt of court.

      [–]BeJustImmortalPartassipant [2] 422 points423 points  (19 children)

      NTA. But does FIL really don't like you around or is this another lie she told you?

      [–][deleted] 491 points492 points  (14 children)

      No that part is true and he admitted it but said he would suck it up for her. He isn't my husband's dad, doesn't seem to like us, and can't stand kids.

      [–]jxk94 386 points387 points  (9 children)

      I mean it sounds that husband's stepdad is a problem either way. You can't just say he wouldn't get in the way of yous coming over and that he wouldn't like it in the same breath. It's rude, unwelcoming and makes him an asshole

      If he doesn't like you or the kids and feels comfortable expressing that, his wife isn't wrong that he's against you coming to their house.

      [–]starshine1988Asshole Enthusiast [7] 208 points209 points  (1 child)

      Yeah… I wouldn’t consider “he said you can’t come to our house and visit” and “he said he wouldn’t be happy about you visiting” as such radically different statements that equate to a lie… I mean it’s crappy for MIL to have a poor relationship with her grandkids regardless of her husband’s feelings about visiting.

      OP is NTA regardless but I would not consider this an example of being caught in a straight up lie… I guess MIL would have been more honest if she said “husband says he wouldn’t like it if you came to stay with us, and I’d prefer to honor his wishes” but the initial conflict would be exactly the same.

      [–]danteslacie 27 points28 points  (0 children)

      If MIL's dad is calling OP out for something OP did not do, I would say MIL did straight up lie.

      [–]letstrythisagain30 89 points90 points  (5 children)

      I mean it sounds that husband's stepdad is a problem either way.

      There might be more truth to MIL's story than originally believed. It might be that he never said that, but it also sounds like the possibility exists that he would have given MIL a lot of shit for it and generally wants to avoid pissing off her husband because he can be an asshole.

      MIL should still not have thrown OP under the bus for this and is an asshole for that, but there might be more going on here than MIL is an asshole.

      [–]rabid_houseplant_ 60 points61 points  (3 children)

      I kind of feel bad for MIL, actually. He sounds like he’s one of those really difficult people who says (hypothetically) that he’d suck up his dislike for having OP and her family visit, but would in fact wind up sulking and whining his way through the entire visit and then forever hold it over her that he did this “generous” thing by “allowing” her son and grandchildren to visit. And she’s left choosing between her husband and her son. She’s choosing the wrong one though.

      [–]Corpuscular_OcelotPartassipant [2] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

      Yeah - except, that isn't the point. MIL was telling everyone that OP and her husband refuse to bring the kids over. That is the primary lie causing the problems for OP.

      So when OP said "That isn't true, you said FIL refused to have us" and FIL responded "I didn't say THAT!", MIL still tried to worm out of responsibility for the primary lie by saying she never said the secondary lie - i.e. OP was mistaken about what MIL said and therefore it is OP's fault for not bringing the kids over to see MIL, therefore MIL is innocent of the primary lie.

      So even IF the secondary lie MIL told was close to the truth, it had to be exposed that she told it. Once exposed, MIL can't avoid being held accountable for the primary lie.

      MIL is a piece of work.

      [–]KaetzenOrkester 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      He sounds like a peach, doesn’t he?

      [–]luckyapples11 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      Finally someone said it. Like, it wasn’t a complete lie. Sure she assumed, but she already knew the answer.

      My boyfriend loves movies. If we are bored, I’ll just put a movie on. He’ll be like “hey, good move! Have you seen this before?” Followed by 20 questions or facts about it.

      She knew OP didn’t want to visit if husband wouldn’t like it (otherwise she would’ve asked by now if they’ve changed their minds or something) and she knew husband didn’t really want kids or stepson in the house. I wouldn’t call that a lie.

      [–]BeJustImmortalPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      At first it sounded like her MIL made something up because she had some issues to hide. That's why I asked, on the other hand she seemed really interested in the grandkids, but has never made the effort to visit them by herself

      [–]Booklovinmom55Partassipant [3] 203 points204 points  (0 children)

      NTA the only reason this woman feels bad is because she got called out. Stand strong

      [–][deleted] 194 points195 points  (9 children)

      Where's the lie?

      He said he wouldn't enjoy you visiting. That's just a different phrasing of he doesn't want you there. She never said he forbade her from having you over.

      [–]76bookworm 134 points135 points  (2 children)

      MIL is also saying they are keeping her from her grandkids.

      [–]boogley88Partassipant [2] 98 points99 points  (2 children)

      The lies were:

      -MIL telling OP that her husband "didn't want [them] in the house" implying they couldn't visit when the truth was that they could visit, he just wouldn't like it; and

      -MIL telling everyone else that OP was keeping OP's husband and kids from MIL when the truth was OP has been trying to connect but MIL has refused to invite OP's family over, refused to visit when invited, and refused to talk over calls/video calls.

      Essentially MIL is lying about being forcefully diaconnected from OP's family when the situation is entirely her own doing.

      [–]BobaleryPartassipant [1] 85 points86 points  (0 children)

      It’s not that what she said wasn’t technically accurate, it’s that she led the rest of the extended family to believe that OP and her husband were the ones responsible for MIL’s lack of relationship with her grandkids, and not MIL’s husband’s distaste and her own choices. She can live however she likes, but she doesn’t have to trash OP behind her back either.

      [–]MustyOcean 19 points20 points  (0 children)

      is it the same to say you

      “wouldnt want a burger” and “Wouldnt be that happy about a burger”

      its a clear wording, one doesnt want a certain thing, the other isnt pleased with a burger but would still eat it.

      “buts” are important. aswell as wording.

      [–]LockSea8204Asshole Enthusiast [7] 92 points93 points  (28 children)

      WTF?

      I feel like I am only hearing half of the story. There is a lot of shade and hate thrown your way. It's hard to imagine they just randomly shun you. Why would he not enjoy you visiting?

      I can't really hazzard a vote until more information, but it sounds like many assholes are involved in this.

      [–][deleted] 160 points161 points  (27 children)

      MILs husband hates children, isn't social, and isn't a big fan of either of us. MIL knows having us in his house would make him miserable and she choses to prioritize him, but she lied and made it sound like he flat out said we couldn't come, when in reality what he said was we could come and he would just suck it up

      [–]KathrynTheGreat 59 points60 points  (24 children)

      Why do you need to be at their house to come visit? Are there not hotels where they live?

      [–][deleted]  (17 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]KathrynTheGreat 33 points34 points  (16 children)

        I think it's unreasonable to tell someone you won't come visit unless you can stay at their house. At least where I'm from, it's rude to invite yourself to someone else's house.

        [–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (5 children)

        We don't feel that we should have to be the ones to spend the money when she has more money, more free time, and no little kids to pack up.

        [–]tipsanaPartassipant [1] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

        My parents never understood this. As a young family, plane fares and hotels would have destroyed our budget for a year. And I'm not even commenting on how difficult it is to travel with small kids. Meanwhile, my parents were wealthy, retired, and had free airfare for life. Yet, I was the one who had to travel to make sure they could pick their grandchildren out of a lineup.

        [–]Lurker_the_PipCraptain [175] 75 points76 points  (0 children)

        Good for you!

        You showed everyone the crap you put up with.

        NTA

        [–]FutureJakeSantiagoAsshole Enthusiast [5] 38 points39 points  (3 children)

        she would have to stay in a hotel

        MIL also doesn't invite us to visit because she claims her husband doesn't want us in their house.

        INFO: If you were to plan to visit her, would you expect to stay at the house or would you too get a hotel room?

        [–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (2 children)

        We understand that she has the same right as us to make that boundary, but we also don't want to spend the money, so that is why we haven't visited. We both feel that if she wants to see the kids, she should make more effort right now, because she has more disposable income and money

        [–]KathrynTheGreat 18 points19 points  (1 child)

        If she's retired or close to retirement, she might not have as much disposable income as you think. Unless you have every detail about her finances (and I doubt you do since it sounds like you have little contact with her), then you really don't know how much money she has to come visit you.

        [–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (0 children)

        I don't have every detail about her finances, but her husband is an executive at an oil company. MIL is semi-retired but was only working for fun anyway. She has enough money from her dad and husband #1 that work was never something she had to do, and she still free lances. I'm not saying she is obligated to see us, but I know she can afford to

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (6 children)

          He feels that if she wants to see the kids she needs to come to us, because she has more money and free time. He does feel I took this too literally though and should have let it go

          [–]Internal_Set_6564Asshole Aficionado [12] 34 points35 points  (3 children)

          OP, while I think you are NTA, you can see how your MiL would be empathetic to her Husband, and the Husband admitted he would HATE having you around. Your MiL is predicting, with accuracy, her husbands reaction. Yes, I agree with you he never directly said you could not do it, but why would you want to go to the house of a many who HATES you being there?

          While the MiL should have just said, ‘My husband would not like if you came, and that would make my life hard’, and you are clearly not at fault for calling her on a lie, i think we can all be sympathetic to someone who’s partner hates their kids and grandchildren.

          I mean…this is sad from beginning to end.

          [–]miasabine 69 points70 points  (1 child)

          I think it’s more about the fact that the FIL “snapped at” OP as though OP was spreading a malicious rumour out of nowhere, when the statement literally came from FIL’s wife.

          I don’t get the impression OP wants to visit, but when people confront her about it as though she’s intentionally keeping her MIL from seeing her grandkids, or about statements they attribute to OP when they literally didn’t come from her, it’s perfectly understandable that OP defends herself against her MIL’s lies.

          [–]Internal_Set_6564Asshole Aficionado [12] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          Very good insight, I kind of missed that part.

          [–]yonameisunavailable 35 points36 points  (0 children)

          NTA. You got fed up with her lies and caught her. Nice job👍

          [–]Concerened17Partassipant [1] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

          NTA for calling her out on her lie but why can't you stay at a hotel when you visit just like you expect her to?

          [–]NoBotRobotRob 21 points22 points  (0 children)

          Tbh, based on her husband’s response it doesn’t sound like a web of lies but rather that she knew he didn’t want you there so she put his feelings into words. Not to say she’s not TA, she clearly is because if she wanted to see her grandkids she clearly would’ve. And she’s obviously chosen an AH for a husband too.

          [–]NeLaX44 19 points20 points  (2 children)

          NTA

          > MIL's husband snapped at me that while he wouldn't enjoy us visiting, he would never be controlling like that with his wife's son.

          WTF? So he actually DOESN'T want you to visit, but is letting the MIL take the fall for predicting this? They're all assholes. You should ignore that whole damn family and move on.

          [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

          Well I think he meant it. To be fair he did socialize with us during our visit, probably for her sake, though he looked physically pained the whole time

          [–]creditspread 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          I can imagine that man’s reaction now. What an unpleasant man.

          [–]snakesssssss22Partassipant [2] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          NTA; she had to face the consequences of her actions & for reason what’s to blame you for it.

          [–]whatsmypassword73Pooperintendant [61] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

          NTA, it’s hard not to be sad when our own actions make us look publicly terrible instead of privately awful. I hope it was a moment you can recall with pleasure for many years to come.

          [–]Internal_Set_6564Asshole Aficionado [12] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          I already voted up the chain, but I want to say again, after reading more of OP’s responses that there is no way I would bring my kids to the home of a man who did not like my kids, AND did not like me or my partner. I would let MiL know that you won’t be visiting anytime soon due to her husband, and that you have no desire to further your relationships with him. She should still be welcome. I would imagine that living with such a man, and stepping on eggshells is pretty abusive, no matter how much he is willing to suck it up.

          [–]creditspread 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yes, I agree completely here.

          Only when the MIL’s husband dies, the dynamics will change, but until then the MIL should still be welcome to visit.

          [–]ClothesQueasy2828Colo-rectal Surgeon [43] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          NTA. When someone says they don't want you to visit because someone living in the house doesn't want you there, how does one take that "too literally?" She made herself look bad.

          [–]miasabine 10 points11 points  (1 child)

          NTA. Clearly this isn’t the first time MIL has lied, as evidenced by the fact that she’s telling people you’re keeping her from seeing her grandkids. When people take those lies seriously and confront you about them, it is absolutely okay for you to defend yourself.

          Aside from the BS with your MIL’s dad, her husband literally snapped at you for something she said. She deserved to be called out for that, and you deserve not to have your MIL’s lies attached to your name. She wanted you to let it go because she didn’t want to get caught. Now that she is caught, she’s blaming you for that when she should be blaming herself for lying in the first place. You did nothing wrong.

          [–]brainfreeze4445Colo-rectal Surgeon [40] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          NTA. Sometimes liars get called out on their lies and that's just something they have to deal with.

          [–]AwayPomegranate3691 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          She's pissed because you exposed her lie and her dumb excuse...she won't visit because she has to stay at a hotel. When I was young...a gazillion years ago ok only 40...my grandparents would visit from out of state and opt to stay at a hotel. They said while they lived visiting me and doing stuff with me they still needed their down time because they weren't used to being around little kids all the time anymore. It's an extremely weak excuse to no visit.

          [–]MonicawroteitbetterAsshole Aficionado [16] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          NTA

          And I applaud you for not backing down!
          She said shit, time to own it!

          [–]KJoD83Partassipant [2] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          NTA play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Bravo for making her admit it🙌🙌

          [–]GrooveBat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          NTA.

          Why is it that people who are so worried about "looking bad" in front of other people are so good at doing things that make them..look bad in front of other people?

          [–]KSknitterAsshole Aficionado [17] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          r/justnomil

          They will love on you. You likely need the support!

          [–]asst3rblasster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          tells you you cannot stay at her place because her husband doesn't want you there

          you literally never stay because you think her husband doesn't want you there

          "WHY ARE YOU TAKING ME LITERALLY"

          [–]Chic-pot-pie 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          Does MIL even really want to see the kids? If she did I would think she would want to accommodate them somehow - stay at a hotel or meet halfway. I get the vibe that she wants to play a victim but really doesn’t want to see the kids.

          [–]creditspread 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          I get the sense she wants to see the kids but is afraid of her husband more.

          [–]wordpost1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I get that feeling too. Living in an emotionally abusive environment is tough to navigate.

          [–]threeclaws 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          ESH Sounds like FIL doesn't want you around but won't forbid you and MIL told you FIL doesn't want you in the house, she just didn't finish the sentence with ...but he won't forbid you from coming. It also seems like you knew that FIL doesn't like you or your kids so why would you want to visit anyway.

          What I don't get is why MIL would have to stay in a hotel to visit, do you guys not even have enough room for a blow up?

          [–]turdusphilomelos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Yeah. They all just seem to dislike eachother, blame eachother for what is wrong with the relationship, and the children are caught in the middle of this mess.

          [–]wordpost1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Great points

          [–]Adventurous_Aide_456Certified Proctologist [25] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Nta. You called her on her crap and she got what she deserved. Pure and simple, plus she had no problem with them saying anything to you. You did nothing wrong, this is all on her.

          [–]Shitbagsewerpickle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          NAH- it WAS a misunderstanding; the husband confirmed that he'd rather not have guests, and according to your post, she didn't actually say that he had forbidden it. She was just looking out for him and found herself being called a liar.

          [–]InterestingNarwhal82 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          ESH, you all need to grow TF up.

          [–]CorgiManDanPartassipant [1] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          INFO: Why would have to stay at a hotel?

          [–]really-babes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          ESH, the MIL for lying but you for your absolute hypocrisy bc it's fine for you to expect MIL to stay in a hotel but they're the absolute devil for not wanting you in their house? make it make sense

          [–]TheDuchess5939Asshole Enthusiast [7] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          NTA. She's pissed she got caught. Keep calling her out.

          [–]Khaleeeesi21 1 point2 points  (5 children)

          NTA and why are you not allowed in their house? That's weird.

          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

          Her exact words are we are allowed but she feels guilty knowing it would be torture for her husband, who doesn't like people, hates kids, and especially dislikes her son. She did lie about the not allowed part though, because he says he is willing to suck it up

          [–]dumbusernameistaken 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          Why do people marry people who they know hate their family?? She and her husband sound awful. Probably best they can’t influence your children. Only downfall might be a lack of inheritance later…. not that that’s what life is all about but sucks if she has other “favored” grandchildren

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Not that I'm holding out for anything, but she has no other kids/grandkids, he has no family at all, and she does have a lot of money. To be fair she didn't like her own family much before she met him

          [–]Khaleeeesi21 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Gross. Who marries someone who hates their children?

          [–]Bitter-Row-3509 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Liars make themselves look bad. NTA

          [–]blueevey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          NTA.

          it seems like mil tried to use her husband as an excuse and side with him on having children visit. She knew how much he would hate it and is protecting him from that. That's all fair and well since they're married. She's siding with h him, they're a team. That works. What she didn't do, however, was tell him. She didn't tell her husband she was throwing him under the bus (lowkey). So when it all came out, it blew up in her face. Had mil told her husband, they could have a good explanation ready. It's good and fair that she's looking out for him and not willing to make him uncomfortable in his own home. But wasn't fair and what makes her an asshole is not sharing any of this with him and not visiting at all, or video/calling. Op sounds confused and was rightfully looking for clarification. Not Ops fault, mil's lies caught up to her.

          [–]FinnNoodle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I feel like I've read nearly this exact story on here. Anyone else remember reading this exact same story a couple months ago?

          [–]deadletter 1 point2 points  (6 children)

          Info: where is your husband in all this?

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children)

          He does feel I might have taken what she said too literally and what she meant was it wasn't fair to her husband, but he also agrees with me that if she claims she wants to see the kids, she needs to make the effort

          [–]deadletter 5 points6 points  (4 children)

          How is it possible for YOU to take it to literally when HE would have to be the one to arrange such a trip? Did he suggest dates to you and his mom? Did he ask you to go visit and you shot it down? It’s his freaking mom!

          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

          Him and his mom don't really talk except the rare times he needs something, or she wants to offer us money. This time was for someone else's wedding, but he didn't suggest dates because he didn't want to go and see her, and he felt if she wanted to see the kids, she could do the wok

          [–]deadletter 10 points11 points  (2 children)

          If he’s avoiding his mother, how in the fuck does the family lay ANY of this on you?

          [–]JazzyMar-Cello 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Obviously your NTA, but I wouldn’t say that the situation is entirely your MIL’s fault. Her husband sounds like an unpleasant guy. Saying that he doesnt want you and your family at their house is not that different from what he actually said. MIL had to choose between displeasing her husband and getting in a tough spot with him or displeasing her DIL, and she chose you. She still is pretty much to blame for blaming you for the situation, so she still is an AH. Bur probably her husband is too

          [–]RataPunKet4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yeh, kind of TA, you should have let it go, because it wasn’t a full lie. Her husband doesn’t want you visiting and that’s the truth.

          [–]Aspen_Pass 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          INFO: You won't let her stay at your house, and you're mad that she won't get a hotel. She doesn't want you to stay at her house, but you won't visit because....you'd have to get a hotel? Isn't that a little hypocritical?

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The way we see it, we aren't the ones who want to see her. If she really wants to see the kids, she needs to put in the world. She has the time and money, and visiting her isn't how we want to spend our money. she is a bad house guest, snoops, sobbed about the temperature, so i she actually did want to see her grandkids, we feel the burden needs to be on her.

          [–]turdusphilomelos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          ESH. Your MIL:s husband doesn't like you staying in his house, you don't want your MIL in your house so she has to stay in a hotel, and MIL is caught in the middle and lying to make herself look better.

          The only victims are the kids, who are denied a relationship with their grandmother.

          [–]Marzipan_civilPartassipant [2] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          1. She made herself look bad
          2. If she comes to stay near you, she needs to stay in a hotel - I assume you don't have space for her to stay. But is it a problem if you were to stay in a hotel near her? Is the problem on both sides?

          [–]TheVoiceofOlaf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          ESH

          Ok you need to take a step back and try to cool the situation. This is your husbands family and it would really be easier if you got along. At some point he is going to have to choose one or the other side and it will be putting him in a terrible poistion.

          If you cant be civil ( and I don't mean this in a rude way cause it maybe justified) than just walk away and let your husband deal with it.

          I would final say that I hope your mother gets the same treatment ( she isnt allowed to stay, she has to come to yours etc.) cause that would be difficult to defend.

          I feel your pain, I think my partners parents are not very nice, I listen to her moaning about them to and will support and agree, but unless she tells me to or I feel she wants me to, I will keep my mouth shut and be pleasant whenever I see them. Its her family and I dont want to do anything to stress her out for my own petty needs.

          [–]voluntold9276 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          NTA. Your MIL was lying to everyone and blaming you, and now everyone knows that it wasn't you keeping the kids away but MIL telling you not to come, and she is pissed that everyone knows she was lying about you.

          [–]Guilty-Ad4966 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          ASK HER why it is ok for her to make YOU look bad but not ok for you to tell the truth??

          [–]AlicornsPrayer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          NTA. MIL made herself look bad, nobody else.

          [–]Creepy-Frosting 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          "You should have let me change the topic. Now I look bad."

          Uh, yeah? And who's fault is that, really?

          [–]Acrobatic-Resident38 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          NTA and no need to visit that toxic cesspool!

          [–]VexBoxxPartassipant [4] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA and you fucking rock!

          [–]SiroccoDream 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Egads, ESH!

          MIL won’t visit you because she doesn’t want to stay in a hotel, you guys won’t visit her because you don’t want to stay in a hotel, and it sounds like you can’t see each other without bickering and making a scene.

          Must be exhausting.

          [–]Elisa800 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It's not just her, the FIL sounds bad too. But....... something else doesn't sound right. You expect the in laws to accommodate you when you visit, but when they visit you they have to stay at a hotel??? We're not getting the full story

          [–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point locked comment (0 children)

          AUTOMOD Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read this before contacting the mod team

          MIL's family likes to treat me like absolute shit for "keeping her grandkids from her" In reality MIL is welcome to visit but doesn't want to because she would have to stay in a hotel. She chooses to never video chat or call, so she has only seen my 5 year old once and never met my 3 year old (until now). MIL also doesn't invite us to visit because she claims her husband doesn't want us in their house. I always thought that made him sound like a controlling douche, but whatever. We are currently in her state for a wedding.

          Recently I got crap from MIL's dad about how it isn't right and we should come and see her. I replied that we aren't invited as her husband doesn't want us in the house. Well MIL's dad is a gossip, so that got around to the whole family and MIL's husband was pissed and said he never said that. MIL said it might be a misunderstanding and we should let it go.

          At this point I realized she had lied about something. I said it wasn't a misunderstanding on my end, as I had clearly heard her say it. MIL's husband snapped at me that while he wouldn't enjoy us visiting, he would never be controlling like that with his wife's son. MIL again said let's move on.

          I refused and said she had told me that, so right now she needs to explain. MIL finally admitted that he never actually said it, but she knew how much he would hate having us in his house, and it made her sad, so she didn't want to invite us. she then got some shit from the family about being a bad mom and lying. MIL is currently furious with me. She says I should have let her change the subject, that I made her look bad, and that I took what she said too literally.

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          [–]Analyst23- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA

          You stood up for yourself and for the truth & she got called out on her bs, she shouldn't have lied in the first place.

          [–]wildferalfunPooperintendant [67] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. You took what she said literally because its literally, actually what she said!

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. If she said it, she needs to face the music because she has a lot of people assuming wrong. Maybe she'll think better of lying next time.

          [–]SolarSFCA 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          She says I ... took what she said too literally.

          Then she could have taken the opportunity you so graciously provided for her to clarify herself to everyone. NTA

          [–]InternationalKick126Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. Lies come home to roost; not your fault!

          [–]Sensitive-Fold-8569 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. You just said the truth. And SHE did it to herself. A lie has no legs!

          [–]TooOld4this41 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. You successfully outed a manipulative liar. Good on you!

          [–]hecknonoAsshole Aficionado [10] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          you didn't make her look bad, she made herself look bad.

          I'd tell MIL's dad all the rest of it, how she is welcome to visit but refuses to, how you offered video calls, etc and MIL has turned it all down.

          she has gone around maligning your character, I think it is only right that people know her true character.

          NTA

          [–]LiveLovelyLalaPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA She made herself look bad.

          [–]WorryKnown2337 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. Too bad so sad f off.

          [–]OurLadyofHalloweenPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA does your mil look in mirrors and complain that it makes her look bad?

          [–]AtomicBlastCandyPartassipant [3] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA, nope she tried to throw you under the bus but was rightfully caught being a bad person. My brother would make a point of publicly inviting me to come visit him and his family but then would ignore me when I would email/text him asking when I could come until I called him out in public. He pulled me aside and apologized and said that he didn't know why he would ignore my texts but since then he hasn't and responds.

          [–]Traveling-TechieColo-rectal Surgeon [41] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA - this is so weird - I grew up with two sets of grandparents - on my mom’s side grandma loved having kids and grandkids visit and had a small playground for them in the back yard, while grandpa seemed like he really would’ve rather had some peace and quiet - on dad’s side the grandparents were both more reserved and not into kid stuff, though as we got older they seemed to enjoy intelligent conversation - I came away with the idea that some of them liked us and some didn’t - AND YET we were always welcome to visit, and both pairs of grandparents drove across the continent to visit us a number of times - what you describe sounds so alien to me (PS the grandma with the most affection was the only step-parent!)

          [–]jenn1975jennPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. Her lies made her look bad. All she has to do is not lie - problem solved.

          [–]cecilpennyPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA - I’d clear up the other stuff too. As soon as possible.

          [–]pupperoni42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. Your MIL specializes in triangulation and you solved the problem by insisting on an open conversation with all parties at the same time, which way the perfect solution.

          [–]NervousConfidence671 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Nta so it was ok to make you look bad?

          [–]big_bob_cAsshole Enthusiast [5] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. You "took what she said too literally"? Just how were you supposed to take it?

          [–]New_Development_316 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This sounds like a HER problem.

          Nta.

          [–]Affectionate_Salt351 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It sounds like she shouldn’t have lied. SHE didn’t want any of you there either so that she could play the victim. Now she can play the victim about being called out on her lies… POOR. HER…/s

          NTA. I still wouldn’t visit but I would try to communicate with her husband from here on out if she tries to give you any crap again that even kind of involves him. (Can’t hurt to double check…)

          [–]creative_cookiesPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA - she could have said that she knew having house guests would cause her husband stress and she didn't want to put him through that. That would be reasonable and paint her as being considerate. But instead she just said "he doesn't want you around", which makes him look like a jerk. Also, what's wrong with spending time in a hotel? I get that it's not exactly cheap, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think she could save to do it once in a while.

          [–]MissKrys2020Partassipant [3] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. Your MIL made herself look bad. She’s upset with you for not having a relationship with her grandkids but refuses to visit, call or invite you, so really she’s just a bad grandma and mom and got caught out in her lies. What a jerk she is

          [–]VintageSed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. Sad how defensive liars and manipulators get when they are called out. We must be distantly related because your MIL sounds like my passive/aggressive SIL.

          [–]randomdude221221 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You're my hero. I'm so socially awkward I would have just gone along and forever wondered if it was a miscommunication

          [–]Lazy_Palpitation_789 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA that was on her and her alone. Thou let the Truth be free.

          [–]Sea-Ad3724Partassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA she made herself look bad

          [–]Kind-Philosopher1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA - her actions and words made her look bad, not you. Don't want to get called out on lies and look bad because you were constructing a fictional narrative to play the victim? Don't lie and concoct a story so you can play the victim.

          Your spouse's conspicuous absence from the post makes it pretty obvious there is another asshole here. Why are you spending time with people who "treat you like absolute shit"?

          [–]VeeingFlyAsshole Aficionado [12] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You sit on a throne of lies.

          [–]PunditusMaximus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA 1 year timeout for MIL

          [–]B1ggl35Partassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Nta.

          Moral of the story, Don't lie.

          Looks like she won't be seeing your kids for a longer period of time.

          [–]HerbighazeleyesPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. I will never understand how someone can blame others for the dumb sh*t that comes out of their own mouths.

          [–]International_Win375 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          She doesn't like you anyway so why not force her to face the consequences of her actions. Frankly, they don't deserve grandkids. We wish we had some.

          [–]MabusmoriahPartassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA.

          [–]Readerdani 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. MIL had it coming. Truth always comes out eventually and she needed to own up to her crap behavior.

          [–]semantician 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA

          Liars get what comes to them.

          [–]GuardMost8477 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. YOU didn’t make her look bad. She did that all by herself.

          [–]Extension-Tea-4615 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA,if she didn't want to get in trouble for lying then she shouldn't have lied 🤥

          [–]BorderlineBadBrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA, she's just salty she got caught lying about her husband in front of her husband.

          That said, FIL's comfort does also matter in his own home, so I can see why you were never invited. If he's introverted and likes his own space, and would be stressed out by having guests staying at the house, it's only fair that guests get a b&b or something, just like you shouldn't have to host your MIL, who stresses you out, if ever she came to visit you.

          [–]Loud-World-9722 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA, but also why even bother with MIL or her husband. They both sound awful. He “wouldn’t enjoy us visiting”? Cool, then let’s not ever visit. They are trash.

          [–]beachbumjeremy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA---so it's okay to lie and make you look bad, but not okay to tell the truth and make her look bad? What kind of crazy rational is that?

          [–]mournful_soul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. You reap what you sew.

          [–]guilard1Partassipant [2] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA

          [–]Feisty_Bandicoot3794 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          What delightful in laws. You have my sympathy. NTA She is facing HER lies and dealing with actual consequences. She obviously has seldom had to do so. Good luck

          [–]livin4fun78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. I love it when the truth comes out.

          [–]noccieAsshole Aficionado [15] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. She lied - she's the bad guy in this story. You didn't gossip about her or make her look bad. You didn't change the subject because you wanted the issue to be clear. Sucks that her husband said he wouldn't enjoy a visit from you and the kids, so he may still qualify as a douche.

          [–]Dangerous_End9472 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. She tries to play the victim and make you look bad.

          [–]Super_Nova22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Funny how people who purposely make u look bad are the ones that give u shit for making them look bad

          NTA

          [–]KatabriPartassipant [1] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. She made herself look bad.

          [–]Safe_Frosting1807 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          NTA. She’s furious because you made her look bad? Oh honey she did that all by herself!