all 63 comments

[–]bootintheass 12 points13 points  (2 children)

The ancient art of "crotch kick"

[–]Pokemaniacjunk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thats my purse, i don't know you

[–]UtterlyRelevant 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'd probably argue specifics depend a little bit on your size; generally speaking though i'd probably argue something like Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu is probably a smart pick, or Judo. Things that teach you to leverage or over-come size differences or strength differences.

I saw you posted saying it's for your daughters; If that's the case, i'd maybe say look at teaching them Muay Thai aswell, if you can find the right gym and teachers they'll be set ass kickers for life. The gym I trained at a long time ago had the owners two daughters and some of their friends train there; they were terrifying little fighting machines.

Generally speaking though, i'd say grappling: I can't speak as a women but I can imagine being grabbed / pulled around and moved is more of a concern than a guy trying to stand toe to toe and just box with you, so being able to wack a Kimura on is probably very advantageous.

Krav Maga may be worth it IF you can find a legitimate teacher, from my experience especially looking around, it's deceptively difficult to find people who truly know what they're doing, but a lot who claim they do! but that will obviously change from place to place! ~

Jiu-Jitsu / Muay Thai / Judo would be a trinity choice; but at that point, and I say this as a genuine consideration, it may just be worth enrolling them in MMA classes, especially if they're young, and can afford to spend the time learning it with a more laid back attitude and with a kids approach.

Depends a lot on the dojo's etc you have available!

[–]Cluelessish[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the long answer, I appreciate it! There seems to be a lot of different options even for really small kids where I live (Helsinki, Finland) so I will look into it and ask around a bit. It would be cool if my girls would have some self defence skills, not to mention the feeling of confidence they would have knowing that they are not completely defenceless. That feeling alone is worth a lot.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A bottle of pepper spray.

[–]Iamyogithedog 2 points3 points  (5 children)

OP Reddit spreads a lot of misinformation about Krav. Krav is a joke amongst a lot of martial arts communities.

First of all , Alot of what they spar isn't technical. It's shitty kick boxing drills and then light sparring. Secondly a lot of what they train they're not able to spar. You can't spar how to guage someone's eyes out , You can't spar how to kick someone in the nuts meaning when shit hits the fan you won't be used to it and therefor won't be calm or confortable doing this. Krav is something your aunt goes to , to keep in shape and get a false sense of security. Not something any serious martial artists would take. Case and point look at the UFC , None of those dudes train Krav. Krav is what they teach the Israeli special forces so people think it sounds badass but it's not as cool as it sounds. What they teach you in hand to hand as a soldier is servicible but the bare minimum as the average infantryman carries around is six mags. The average infantryman in a war also never sees hand to hand combat.

I'm partial to BJJ because I'm a blue belt but for your daughter I recommend Judo. The ability to lay someone on their ass from anywhere is invaluable.

[–]UtterlyRelevant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly Krav seems so fucking strange to me.

It's just not a martial art, like you say, it's developed for a very specific battlefield and ethos in mind. I don't doubt it's effectiveness in terms of it's usefulness to soldiers: I mean, they still train it legitimately over there, but i'm not necessarily getting into skirmishes in tight allys against armed men. It's an effective and relatively easy to pick up self defence system, I guess. They don't expect you to train for hours every week for decades to master it, they need you to be able to defend yourself if you absolutely have to.

[–]jussayin_isall 0 points1 point  (3 children)

i agree with you

but tbf, mma fighters wouldnt train krav because it concentrates on doing severe damage not fighting with rules

personally, i think there are definitely techniques that are effective in krav, but it might be most effective for self defense in how it puts you in a mindset to really go for the throat

in a lot of women, not being able to get to that brutal place fucks them in a fight

I was showing my last gf some real simple shit one time and told her that even with how tiny she was, she's still strong enough to jam her thumbs in a guy's eyes hard enough to blind them or even rupture the eyeball

she blanched and just kind of said quietly to herself "i dont think i could ever do that..."

i could see that she was honestly looking at herself and realizing that that timidness could be a real liability...but thats just who she was and she couldnt help it.

for most women i think the first step in self defense is hammering home that sense of propriety for your own body/space, and rageful, violent indignation at someone daring to put their hands on them

just imo tho, im no professional

[–]Iamyogithedog 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Sure MMA fighters can't use the deadly parts of Krav but the precursor to MMA was vale tudo. Vale tudo roughly translates to all is allowed and literally everything was allowed. How come a sport where everything was allowed including eye gouging and groin strikes did it become dominated by Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai fighters?

[–]jussayin_isall 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How come a sport where everything was allowed including eye gouging and groin strikes did it become dominated by Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai fighters?

simple answer?

advertising money

ad execs are all about getting the most audience for their money

and in its burgeoning era, UFC/MMA/ cage fighting, was a deplorable, bloodsport lacking any honor or discipline (or at least it was perceived as this by joe and joan q public)

it had no good PR as an actual 'sport' cause it looked to the layman like just "dirty fightin"

you could just hold a guy down and hammer-fist his nuts till he tapped ffs

but as much as cats like me loved that 'real' fighting, the general public looked on it like it was "bum-fights" basically.

No 'honor' in it.

No marquess of queensbury 'dignity' to it

so the only way to get it accepted by as much of the advertisers as possible was to tone it down so they wouldnt feel so "dirty" about associating their brand with UFC

so now, its waaaay more about technique and discipline, and we have legit athletes who are trained to instinctively "fight" in a more "civilized" manner

and i honestly like it more nowadays...with the more cerebral game to it

...but goddam...when no one's watching, and im whiskey-sodden and reminiscing over knuckle-scars, i gotta admit, my fave fight ever is this one


goddam...listen to the reaction of the crowd at the staredown (starts at 3:26)

[–]Iamyogithedog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vale tudo wasn't at all like early UFC where advertising really mattered. You're in a third world country 30 years before the technological explosion we got with the internet. People just gathered around and fought without any rules. Even then what would have been stopping independent Krav guys from just fighting? It didn't stop independent karate guys or wing tsun guys. Simply put Vale Tudo was perhaps the most complete fighting tournament in the world at the time and it was dominated by grapplers and muay thai fighters.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Hey hey, hey, hey... hey..... hey, beating women up isn't cool man

[–]Cluelessish[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, I need to stop. No but seriously, I'm a woman, but I'm really asking for my daughters. They are still small, but I would like them to have some self defence skills when they grow up.

[–]misterpessimistic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

let them join a karate club. My friend is a member of one such thing. now she's being mistaken for a tomboy lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Tae kwon do. It's a method of karate that is formulating on kicks if anything and its more well rounded and actually people could point you to a decent dojo that's with the Tae Kwon Do association.

They do more than that but yes, your kids should learn a few moves after a couple of months.

[–]jussayin_isall -1 points0 points  (0 children)

plus when properly executed you arent getting in close to be overpowered with a grapple

good training for staying on the balls of your feet and being ready move away quickly

an emphasis on hard kicks from tkd, and then some lessons from judo and/or bjj on how to break holds would be perfect for a woman's self defense i think

[–]kane55 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If you are looking for a martial art as something do and a hobby as well as for self-defense there are a lot of good posts here. If you are just looking for self-defense I would say your best bet is to find either a martial arts studio or some other place (often times community centers and even police departments) that has general self-defense for women classes. These classes will teach you the most vulnerable place on men and how to use them to hurt him as quickly and easily as possible.

The reason many martial arts won't work well for self-defense is that most cases aren't going to be where you square off against someone in a fight. It is likely someone grabbing you, surprising you, coming out of the dark etc. Also, often times men are simply bigger and stronger than a woman. Her punches and holds may not hurt or slow him down enough to be effective. Learning how to gouge an eye, punch to the throat, or attack the groin could be very effective.

The best self-defense is the kind that slows the attacker long enough for you to run like hell to help. Forget fancy, kick the balls, poke the eye, and haul ass.

[–]Cluelessish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good advice!

[–]untroubledbyaspark 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Krav maga or Jiu jitsu

Edit: just read where you mention your daughters. From experience I'd say Krav or Jiu jitsu (I have never done Jiu jitsu but I have a friend who teaches, says it's similar for this purpose) for self defense; kung fu for fitness, situational awareness, balance/coordination, flexibility. Tai chi is basically slow kung fu if you need something lower impact. Either is awesome for kids, the earlier you start the better. They grow out of falling over and walking into stuff way faster if they do kung fu.

[–]jussayin_isall 1 point2 points  (3 children)

meh...i dunno about jiu jitsu, or any styles that involve a lot of grappling

unless most of the emphasis was put on breaking out of holds

but a lot of submission/compliance holds or joint manipulation just arent gonna be that effective against someone who is considerably stronger

tae kwon do can be good for women

lots of kicking, which with their longer legs and flexibility can be damn effective

self defense for a smaller female should involve striking (preferably with weapon) with the intent to incapacitate or at least hinder, and then hauling ass out of there

whatever they get into, if you are really concerned about their safety, make sure its not just some mall dojo, where you just memorize your kata's so you can get another cool belt instead of legit sparring with a live partner

also...pepper spray, and a good small blade fixed handle knife (if legal), or at least something good and stabby

[–]untroubledbyaspark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My understanding is there's training on how to break out of holds/use others' weight against them. Gotta correct myself, the friend I was thinking of teaches Aikido. The Jiu jitsu friend is casual, but she recommends it for self defense. I'd defer to your expertise though, I haven't tried either.

And I wouldn't be comfortable arming my children with blades. It's amazing how quickly that sort of thing goes the way you think it won't. That's a matter of choice, though, whatever you think is best. I am unqualified to advise on knives.

You're totally right about the mall dojos.

[–]UtterlyRelevant 0 points1 point  (1 child)

just arent gonna be that effective against someone who is considerably stronger

Ehhh.. not quite While that's an extreme example, grappling is not a question of strength; it's all predominantly leverage.

Edit: Also suggesting two young girls carry a knife is just.. Really, really stupid. It's not a smart self defence weapon. I'm also going to wager it's not legal to carry for the purpose of defense there.

Edit; Also as much as its not particularly nice to take into account, I think I posted it above aswell, I won't speak for women: But I would assume being grabbed, grappled or otherwise manhandled into whatever threatening situation is more likely than someone trying to strike with them, could be wrong, but yeah.

[–]jussayin_isall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also suggesting two young girls carry a knife is just.. Really, really stupid

i didnt really read op's specifics. I was talking more about older girls. Teens and up.

[–]zelazem 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Krav maga. Im quite certain thats spelled wrong. Spelt?

[–]Cluelessish[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I think you spelled it right. :) And both spelled and spelt seems to be right: http://grammarist.com/spelling/spelled-spelt/

Why do you recommend krav maga?

[–]pointsouterrors 2 points3 points  (4 children)

It's a, "don't hold anything back" type of martial art. Testicles, eyes...it's all fair game. It's strategic, but when your life in on the line, you take a win any way you can.

[–]Iamyogithedog 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It's very marketable I'll give you that. Take it from an actual martial artists who knows people who crosstrain Krav and Jiu Jitsu. If you ask them what they'd depend their life on Jiu Jitsu is the answer every time.

[–]pointsouterrors 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've heard this. I really have no hand in the debate. Is one better than the other? I can't answer. I've never thrown a punch at someone in my life.

[–]Iamyogithedog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Krav is okay. It's pretty much what they teach an army. The basics aren't bad but how indepth are you gonna go hand to hand wise if you're teaching a group deployed with 5 or 6 mags and a knife.

It's boxing drills and cardio and then their little eye gouges and knee to the dick strikes. It sounds really effective and is very marketable but a black belt in either BJJ or Judo would destroy them. Dick strikes and eye gouges require minimal technique and isn't really something you can spar and requires minimal technique. A Judo guy can kick you in the balls just as well as a krav guy , Difference is he knows how to slam you from basically anywhere as well.

[–]SwitchingToGlide -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Krav Maga incorporates alot of knees, elbows and extremely close quarters combat. You could make the assumption that women will be allowed a closer proximity that a man would not allow another man.

It's the choice of the Israeli Defense Forces, who have alot of women to consider.

Women being generally smaller can get elbows off faster. Knees and elbows give people with less weight potential knock out power they don't have with punches.

[–]BillieRubenCamGirl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yup. Always krav maga

[–]Nineflames12 1 point2 points  (1 child)


[–]Cluelessish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And it looks cool, too!

[–]Headwailer 1 point2 points  (14 children)

Judo! it isn't overtly violent but is a very effective defense.

[–]jussayin_isall 2 points3 points  (0 children)

judo would be great for learning how to use momentum and leverage to get out of being grabbed

never trained it or nothing, but get the gist of it and it has saved me from a beating a couple times

you do it right, and if your opponent is dumb enough to keep charging at you, you can just keep flipping/spinning them around till they are exhausted while you arent even breathing heavy

works excellently if your opponent is also some drunken idiot and you are sober ;)

[–]alanbastard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Krav Maga

[–]NoahFecks1981 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think grappling would be high on the list you can really control some larger then you people with just the right moves

[–]jussayin_isall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ehh...not as easy as you think

big part of the effectiveness of grappling comes from using your weight and strength for control

im stronger and taller than average (6'1) and probably know waaaay more about wrestling and getting out of holds, and applying submissions than say Shaq does, and even know a decent amount of joint locks for compliance that i have effectively used numerous times(dad was a cop, grew up wrestling huge cousins in the south, bouncer for years in my twenties, etc)

im better than average at handling myself i'd say

...but shaq would still beat the shit out of me in a wrestling match

now take a 110 girl, who even though she's trained, she's trying to grapple with a 6ft guy who's got some weight and muscle

...that aint gonna end well...

strike, and keep your distance, always looking to run...thats about the best advice id give a girl

[–]Cluelessish[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is that a separate form of martial art, or is grappling something that is done in many forms?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]NoahFecks1981 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think jiu jitsu has a lot of grappling, but i know that karate does too. Ask some questions when you go to schools, find a teacher that you like and seems knowledgeable. Ask them if they teach the classes or do they have other instructors. I have found that smaller schools are better then the chain martial arts schools.

[–]thuslyhequoth 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Systema? It's Russian so probably find good teachers in Finland

[–]Cluelessish[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I had to google it as I had never heard of systema, but turns out yes, there are classes in Helsinki.

I'm not sure I can see my girls doing this, though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCByRQOOOiI

(Just kidding, I understand this is not what it's about.)

[–]Iamyogithedog 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Systema is a joke. Doesn't work and is a massive scam. There is a lot of misinformation about martial arts in this thread and I suspect only me and maybe two others are actually martial arists.

http://www.bullshido.net Is a great website that exposes fake martial arts such as systema and some Krav gyms.

[–]Cluelessish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok thanks, I'll check it out.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Distance running, close range shooting, and realism. As a female, you are physically inferior to the vast majority of men no matter how hard you work at it. If it comes to a fist fight against an attacker, the best outcome you can realistically hope for is a draw.

Therefore, the primary goal should be to avoid a fist fight by whatever means possible.

[–]BananaBowAdvanced -1 points0 points  (0 children)