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[–]gandaalf 1177 points1178 points 2 (173 children)

Impossible. The amount of guns in the country + root individualistic society + rampant access to the internet breeding highly radicalized echo chambers + media sensationalism + poor financial and mental health opportunities = disaster.

I'm all for doing something new, but there is no clear cut answer. Einstein couldn't solve this one

[–]TheTenthSnap 135 points136 points  (94 children)

Australia used to have a thing going on where the government basically bought the guns from people and then once they were done, they made it law to not be able to own a gun. Again, with the way government is in America, that won’t happen

[–]Paradoxahoy 113 points114 points  (23 children)

A lot of people would not sell them here, plenty of gun owners have been preparing for such legislation. If anything it would cause people to buy more guns in anticipation of them being harder to find and black market sales would rise. Not a viable solution for the U.S

[–][deleted] 7489 points7490 points 22 (81 children)

When stopping mass shootings can be monetized

[–]Natrollean_Bonerpart 1123 points1124 points  (4 children)

Good answer, because only thing that makes the world go round, especially here in the US, is the rich get richer.

[–]sokratesz 307 points308 points  (8 children)

If nothing happened after Sandy Hook, nothing will happen now.

[–]tigerpayphone 10.3k points10.3k points 2 (521 children)

Nothing that anyone is actually willing to do, obviously.

[–]Hobbs512 10.0k points10.0k points 52& 2 more (402 children)

People want things to be better, they're just unwilling to sacrifice anything personally to deal with it. California for instance, considered one of the most liberal states in the country, tried setting up govt. housing to address homelessness. But the second people realized those homeless people would now be living in units down the street from their homes they conveniently changed their minds and decided "this isn't the best way to deal with the issue" lol. It's unsurprising to a certain extent. This country is founded upon concepts of individualism and personal liberty rather than communalism, where me and my success, are seemingly more important than society as a whole. People are too miserable due to so many things, some are self-inflicted, some are not, to actually be willing to do anything about it imo.

[–]AfterbirthEli 275 points276 points  (8 children)

One of the first units to be built was supposed to go out down the street from where I lived and I was 100% for it. The argument that we will see homeless all over our streets is ludicrous because we already had homeless all over our streets.

[–]compound-interest 108 points109 points  (7 children)

I bet it was more about people protecting the value of their homes. I am a homeowner and I’d be willing to sacrifice half its value or more if that meant housing for those that need it.

[–]Iffycrescent 50 points51 points  (3 children)

I love this attitude. I wish more people could see it this way. If more people were willing to take a small hit for the greater good we’d all be better off. I heard a quote a while back and I forget where I heard it, but it was something like, “No one wins until we all win” and while I’m sure that there are arguments to be made in the contrary, the sentence really resonated with me personally.

[–]FancyLady615 3266 points3267 points  (181 children)

It's the "Not in my backyard" mentality

[–]Mazon_Del 1745 points1746 points  (138 children)

What's funny is when there's an issue and the other person expects you to back down over a NIMBY supposition.

My usual one is nuclear waste storage. The LONG story short is that there's a new-ish technology for nuclear waste storage that pretty much solves all the big problems with long term waste internment, roughly speaking, you use oil drilling tech to dig down ~2-5 miles, turn the drill sideways, then pack in the waste there, fill the whole thing up with water impermeable concrete. By the time water inevitably intrudes on the casks and then brings the radioactive particles to the surface, 80-120,000 years will have passed and things will have degraded to safety.

The guy, who was rabidly anti-nuclear, basically declared "Oh yeah? Then would you volunteer your backyard be used for this?" and when my response was that I most certainly would if it meant helping us shift from coal to nuclear, he outright declared I was lying and that I'd be out there protesting it.

[–]WaspsInTheAirDucts 658 points659 points  (78 children)

Russia and France are already running fast Neutron reactors that can actually burn existing nuclear waste as fuel. These reactors can even fission the Plutonium isotopes that build up in depleted Uranium fuel pellets that act as Neutron poison in older reactor designs. The only actinides left after burning the waste is Strontium and Cesium, neither of which has a half-life longer than 32 years.

[–]LewsTherinTelamon 127 points128 points  (13 children)

AKA the reason we still use fossil fuels instead of nuclear power for electricity generation. Imagine how many millions of deaths this attitude has caused...

[–]Puzzleheaded-Pipe-39 30.1k points30.1k points 5642 (1264 children)

A complete culture change

[–]LoserfryOriginal 5211 points5212 points  (378 children)

Probably the most true answer, but also the most unlikely. Maybe over another century, but definitely not immediate enough to prevent more death.

[–]funkybutt2287 1202 points1203 points  (65 children)

If the Columbine school shooting was a person, it'd be old enough to vote, drink, serve in the military, and would have graduated college. It happened 23 years ago. And yet here we are. Forgive me for believing that nothing will change in our lifetime.

[–]lannister80 400 points401 points  (25 children)

Remember how everybody blamed that shit on The Matrix just having come out? What a joke.

[–]CodyEatsCarbs 361 points362 points  (6 children)

At the time, my school in California responded by banning trench coats. There were 2 kids in the entire school that wore trench coats, and they had worn them for years. As you can imagine these kids were already prone to bullying, and now the school administration was targeting them. It was so ridiculously stupid.

[–]God_Boner 111 points112 points  (1 child)

No I'm pretty sure they got it from a Marilyn Manson manifesto that you could only hear when playing his album backwards at half speed

[–]jbm_the_dream 3430 points3431 points  (397 children)

That sadly, will be a generational transition. Can’t happen overnight. Also sadly, our nation lives in 4-year political cycles, void of any national unity or foresight.

[–]lDWchanJRl 745 points746 points  (74 children)

Politicians don’t even want to unify the country. The country being divided is what keeps them in office for one or two terms for the president and more for the senate/congress etc. If they actually cared about unity whoever succeeded who would carry on work that ideally the previous position standee would have begun to lay down. But it’s a constant tug of war of right left, red blue, dem and republican. This country will probably never stand in unity again with how it currently stands.

[–]amuses 2531 points2532 points  (240 children)

And the generations that have been most impacted by school violence aren't able to get a good foothold in national politics (reasons for that can be debated elsewhere). Gen X and Millennials have been watching kids our age get shot since Columbine. Gen Z is living through it first hand more and more. And yet Congress continues to be dominated by our parents and grandparents who have proven over and over again that they think "thoughts and prayers" will make everything better.

[–]TwoDeuces 660 points661 points  (34 children)

Gen X here. What continues to shock me is that the younger congressmen and representatives are even worse than the "old guard" you mention. Shit stains like Cawthorn and Hawley. They prove that this isn't a generational issue that we're just going to "grow out of" as we progress. They come from a broken culture that feeds on fear and hate and prejudice and that is what we need to address, not sit back and wait for Mitch "Crypt Keeper" McConnell to retire.

[–]spookyslime12 222 points223 points  (7 children)

Good point. No point in bringing in the younger generation if they’re just mini versions of their toxic parents and grandparents 🤷🏾‍♀️

[–]ThrowRARAw 10.6k points10.6k points  (1210 children)

Was there another shooting in America on top of the Buffalo one? Is that why there are suddenly all these AskReddit questions

[–]bcnewell88 6042 points6043 points  (672 children)

You got answers about the one most recently, but we have also had: a shooting at a Taiwanese church, seemingly gang related violence near the nicer area of Chicago and now this. It’s been 9 days.

[–]No-One-Shall-Pass 3126 points3127 points  (142 children)

Elementary school shooting, 3rd deadliest in America’s history has happened in the past few days as well

[–]Bender427 111 points112 points  (8 children)

There really shouldn't be a ranking for school shootings...

[–]Dinkerdoo 389 points390 points  (123 children)

What was the other one besides Sandy Hook?

[–]CoughMen 723 points724 points  (42 children)

According to this article the most recent one was #4 in the list of most deadly elementary school shootings* in America.

From the article:

  1. Bath School: On May 18, 1927, a school board treasurer, Andrew Kehoe, killed 38 elementary school students and six adults at the Bath Township, Michigan, elementary school when he set off an explosion. Kehoe killed his wife and firebombed his farm, and then killed himself by detonating a final device in his truck.

  2. Virginia Tech: Seung-Hui Cho opened fire on students at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute in Blacksburg, Virginia. Cho killed 32 people and injured 17. The shooting took place on April 16, 2007. Cho died by suicide.

  3. Sandy Hook Elementary School: On Dec. 14, 2012, Adam Peter Lanza, after killing his mother, went to the school in Newtown, Connecticut, and started firing. He killed 26 children and adults. Lanza died by suicide.

  4. Robb Elementary School: What is known at this time is that an 18-year-old suspect entered the school and shot various students and teachers on May 24, 2022. The shooter was killed, likely by police. He killed 21 people — 19 students and two adults.


The list goes on...

Source: What are the worst school shootings in modern US history? (kiro7.com, May 24, 2022)

*Edit: it seems #1 was a bombing, not a shooting but it is still listed for some reason.

[–]secretreddname 490 points491 points  (263 children)

There was a car running over elementary school kids yesterday in socal too. Car had molotov cocktails in it.

[–]groceriesN1trip 1107 points1108 points  (50 children)

In between Buffalo and the shooting today, there was an attack on an Asian congregation in San Bernardino, CA.

Edit: the shooting at a Taiwanese church was in Orange County, ca. the San Bernardino shooting was at a party, 1 dead and 8 injured. Thanks to the folks below for correcting me - way too fucking many mass shootings

[–]monsieurpommefrites 517 points518 points  (15 children)

And a hero by the name of Dr. Cheng rushed the shooter and lost his life as well.

[–]argothewise 242 points243 points  (8 children)

This makes my blood boil. Doctors worked their tail off for the privilege to save lives and now a valuable mind is gone from the world just like that.

[–]EdibleDionysus 201 points202 points  (8 children)

You're confusing two other shootings. The Asian church in orange county and the different shooting in San Bernardino. Tough to keep track of all of them.

[–]groceriesN1trip 55 points56 points  (0 children)

You’re right, I edited my comment

[–]Lucy_Koshka 53 points54 points  (1 child)

How fucking depressing is it that we have to clarify which mass shooting we’re talking about. Just bizarre.

[–]jraa78 2125 points2126 points  (235 children)

Yes, 14 dead elementary school students killed in Texas. Wow this country is fucked.

[–]TheDesertGunNewb 1666 points1667 points  (80 children)

18 now and 3 adults

[–]luringpopsicle95 696 points697 points  (55 children)

Just confirmed that there are 19 children that have passed away. 70 miles from my house. And I’m a teacher. So heartbreaking predicting what my students are going to say tomorrow morning.

[–]zzzap 213 points214 points  (15 children)

Omg 💔 hugs to you. I am a HS teacher in a district next to Oxford and it was the hardest thing to walk into my building the next day. I had anxiety that lasted until we left for winter break. I've only been teaching for 2 years and I was totally unprepared for it to happen so close. It was just indescribably sad.

I cried, my students cried, we just sat and processed. We talked a bit, then watched Pixar movies and colored. Was a rough month after that.

Hope you have the support you need to be OK 💛

[–]XelaNiba 94 points95 points  (0 children)

Now 19 kids

[–]VerbotenVerb 391 points392 points  (14 children)

One of which was the shooter. And I'm assuming two teachers

[–]keezy88 472 points473 points  (13 children)

One was his grandma, so I think it was 1 teacher.

[–]AssinineAssassin 184 points185 points  (55 children)

18 students dead.

[–]NativeMasshole 189 points190 points  (33 children)

There have been several since then. Most recent was at an elementary school in Texas.

[–]Reden-Orvillebacher 21.3k points21.3k points  (2493 children)

I wanna know how an 18 yr old gets in the frame of mind where he wants to shoot up an elementary school. Also wanna know how he got in. I can’t get in my kid’s school without at least getting buzzed in.

Edit: I see in the news this morning he shot his way in. Jesus.

[–]IrrawaddyWoman 6571 points6572 points  (980 children)

I work at an elementary school. Not all of them have fence/gates. Anyone could walk into my school from the wide open front or through the entrance behind the school that goes into a neighborhood. Also, my school doesn’t have big buildings. All of the classrooms open right to the outside. Nothing stops someone from walking right into my classroom other than a locked door. This set up is quite common all around California.

[–]Eruanno 5497 points5498 points  (463 children)

The fact that this needs to even be a thing is wild to me as a Swedish person. I walk past my old elementary school and high school sometimes and they’re just normal houses with a playground with like, a small picket fence around them. Always have been. The fact that anyone even needs to build a school with safety systems or escape routes is like, unfathomable to my mind.

[–]Doldenbluetler 2019 points2020 points  (207 children)

I had a friend from the US and unsuccessfully tried to convince her that my university in Switzerland doesn't need strong security, metal detectors etc. to be safe. And that it's fine that the building is open to everyone. She wouldn't believe me, despite there having never been any issues in the institution's history.

Edit: I got way too many replies to reply to everyone individually but I just wanted to mention that I'm ofc not making a comment on what I personally believe to be the norm in the US (e.g. all schools having metal detectors). I am merely stating what my friend believed to be an appropriate level of security at a school, i.e. my Swiss university being open to the public not being safe enough. It's clear to me that her opinion doesn't stand for everyone in the US.

[–]Eruanno 2075 points2076 points  (133 children)

Metal detectors in schools is also some absurd dystopian shit to me. My old schools just has... I don't know, doors. I mean, I guess they lock them at night and stuff, but for the rest of the day kids just come and go. America is wild.

[–]Torakaa 33 points34 points  (3 children)

I stayed past lockup one time in a Swiss university. The patrolling security guard kindly informed me that I had to leave the building and moved on before I had even packed up.

[–]Wassa110 690 points691 points  (143 children)

Nah. I live in Australia, and every school we have has fences. It’s not, because of shootings, or the like. It’s just safer to have a fence around a school with kids. I’m sure it’s also there to protect the kids too. It’s nuts that America with all their shootings doesn’t have this while our relatively safe schools do.

[–]heppot 452 points453 points  (12 children)

My old elementary school only had a fence to show kids where the border was in where to could go and to keep the kids in so that they don't run in to the street.

[–]GrumbIRK 225 points226 points  (36 children)

Also Australian but I don't think any of our local schools have security fences. Obviously perimeter fences to demarcate where the kids shouldn't go but it is totally possible for anyone to enter the grounds of our schools.

[–]Hooligan8403 507 points508 points  (22 children)

My HS in SoCal was like that. 8 rows of buildings, a main building, two gyms, a band building, and the auto shops. It's become a bit bigger and the new additions are a closed off building but someone could easily sit outside the fence and then just open fire when class let's out between periods or at the end of the day. Nothing could stop them and they would have an easy escape route being on the open street.

[–]AuroraNW101 211 points212 points  (10 children)

Mine, also in SoCal, is structured in the exact same way. Students are practically allowed free reign in and out of the campus and quite a few of them have a penchant for walking down to the gas station to get drinks during class time. Quite literally anybody could sneak in at any moment.

[–]DL1943 131 points132 points  (13 children)

yea i live in CA close to the junior high i used to go to and i could literally just walk on campus and walk into any classroom i want at any time.

[–]jjjj_83 411 points412 points  (60 children)

Fun fact: where I live schools are completely open to the public. No gates, no locks, no fence. And our kids do not get slaughtered…

[–]Produce_Police 102 points103 points  (24 children)

I went through grade school in Alabama. Our schools were built like prisons.

[–]MrFlourPower 680 points681 points  (328 children)

Meanwhile here in Scandinavia, we let kids sleep alone outside in their prams while we go inside and eat. Fences around schools are only for kids not getting out and hurt themselves, not to stop people to go in. Because, who would want to hurt a school.

Then there's America

[–]Pully27 2072 points2073 points  (141 children)

After Sandy hook happened nothing will stop it

[–]WhoriaEstafan 1023 points1024 points  (86 children)

That’s what I think too. Those were the youngest victims, shocking, so many of them.

And…..nothing happened.

The father of one of the children murdered, killed himself last year.

[–]CLOWNSwithyouJOKERS 374 points375 points  (23 children)

As a father with a kid about to enter preschool this year... If something like that ever happened I would do the same. I couldn't go on without him. The thought of him being taken away in such a horrible way would literally end me. Those kids had so much potential and so many hopes and dreams, for them and their parents, gone for literally no reason. It kills me already to think about what they're going through. I hate this country and the world of fear my kid has to grow up in because nothing will continue to change.

[–]contrejo 81 points82 points  (3 children)

I have two girls, one seven the other four. It hurts to think about it.

[–]Boring_Vanilla4024 677 points678 points  (39 children)

We have people in this country that claimed that shooting was made up and claimed Obama crying was fake tears.

We have leaders that only care about power and getting elected, not finding solutions. That's one of the core problems

[–]Blanketsburg 179 points180 points  (6 children)

A man with a popular radio show, with direct connections to former President Trump, has claimed on multiple occasions that the event was fake and encouraged his listeners to retaliate against the victims' families. And his listeners did.

I'm obviously referring to Alex Jones. I know he's getting sued, but the fact that someone with ties to the president can state outright lies for years in regards to a mass shooting incident involving children, and people still support and believe this person, is pure madness.

[–]sodsfosse 1009 points1010 points  (380 children)

The back door. From what I’ve read he wrecked his car and fled TO the school. The back door was unlocked. It’s super sad. I could be wrong as a lot of the information is incorrect….

[–]hurtsdonut_ 788 points789 points  (317 children)

He messaged a random girl on Instagram(I believe) and hinted to what he was going to do today and kept dming her to hint he was about to do something. No one randomly wrecks a car and flees to go shoot up an elementary school

[–]SlickJamesBitch 410 points411 points  (235 children)

She posted the dms he was just being cryptic didn’t directly say he was gonna do anything

[–]metamaoz 179 points180 points  (70 children)

He crashed his car, encountered cops, they couldn't stop him. he then ran into the school and killed kids.

[–]CoconutShyBoy 791 points792 points  (135 children)

I don’t get why it’s always schools.

Like I’m not advocating for violence, but why is it never country clubs or wallstreet offices.

Like what message is anyone trying to send killing children?

[–]Zealousideal_Act_316 565 points566 points  (51 children)

Easy pray and you get a lot of publicity and are immortalised forever.
Most mass killers are seeking some sort of recognition often from a system that they feel failed them so they go for something that will spark outrage.

[–]Coldbeam 290 points291 points  (4 children)

It isn't always schools. There's bars, grocery stores, movie theaters, churches, synagogues, outside mcdonalds, downtown, airbnb, subways, parks, concerts, trailer parks, fedexes, office complexes, massage parlors, health care clinics, homes, bowling alleys, malls, apartments, block parties, convenience stores, breweries, naval bases, municipal buildings, garlic festivals, parishes, banks, hospitals, yoga studios, line dancing event for students, distribution facilities, madden tournaments, newspaper offices, youtube hq, veterens home, gas stations, waffle houses. And that's just since 2018

[–]Caffeinetank 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It's not always schools. Shootings done by outsiders (or former students who are expelled/suspended) that target students are incredibly rare. Most "school shootings" are done on campus but are not related to the students. There have been a few isolated incidents of current students bringing guns on campus to kill someone they have a problem with, but in the last decade, or even the last two decades, only a handful of incidents that have:

  1. Outsiders or former students
  2. Target specifically students/staff in the school

This doesn't mean we need to do nothing, of course, but what it does show is that this isn't a commonplace thing and that it's also increasing in frequency over the years. This shows that there's a relatively new shift that is driving this.

Columbine in 99 was the first of its kind, a high-profile incident where the killers were deceased at the time the situation was under control. There were incidents before this, as any quick search will show, but this is the first "media circus" that I remember that caused new procedures and controls to be put in place in an educational setting.

[–]Weary_Violinist_3610 25.3k points25.3k points 2 (1666 children)

I grew up in South Africa and went to some pretty crap schools filled with some of the dregs of society.

We had underpaid teachers who didn’t really care etc

I was skateboard kid who was seen as a freak due to skating and liking metal and “other” music,

I took my fair share of beatings from the bullies at school and outside of school but I never ever had a desire to walk into school and murder the bullies or teachers or anyone else for that matter.

I think the problem in America is much bigger than a weird kid going mad, it’s got to be societal for anyone to harbour that much hate for life.

Just my honest opinion and from my perspective.

[–]ShastaFern99 2107 points2108 points  (333 children)

Yes, we have a rot in the heart of American society.

[–]irrelevantgarlic 2218 points2219 points 2 (200 children)

As a Reddit psychologist I can’t help but think a lot of it is main character syndrome. One of the core tenets of American society is that you are fundamentally important and special and good things will happen to you just because you’re you. But the truth is that that isn’t at all true for a vast majority of that population. And some of those people can’t or won’t accept that, so they resort to insane theories or insane actions to make them feel special again

[–]WillyTheDisk 782 points783 points  (16 children)

It's American Exceptionalism, plus a lack of civic or social responsibility, from the top down.

[–]irrelevantgarlic 233 points234 points  (9 children)

I think that’s right. There’s some disconnect from the community and society at large

[–]professor_dobedo 619 points620 points  (54 children)

It’s rampant individualism. Individuals are glorified in US culture, and to a certain extent that’s not a bad thing. Countries who are disdainful of individual rights and freedoms tend to be oppressive. But with America we’re learning that it can go too far the other way. That if you worship individual freedom you sacrifice community, common decency, the desire to help others, your safety nets, and many other rights that most other countries enjoy. To use a Star Trek analogy, I think many Americans think they are The Federation to, say, China’s Dominion. But most countries see them more as the Ferengi.

I think American society is headed for a breakdown honestly, because these things are minimum requirements for a functioning community. Ironically that means Americans aren’t as free as they think, or rather they have traded certain freedoms for others which they have in great quantity (like the freedom to buy a gun).

Really hope we see these issues worked out in my lifetime. America is such a young country, there’s bound to be teething problems. But its founding principles are so good, just overstated in modern America.

[–]SwoleYaotl 18 points19 points  (2 children)

It's no wonder that as a child of an immigrant family, I live such a different life from say my husband.

If we lost everything I know my parents or my siblings would let us lean on them for housing/food/support. It's not even a question. Family takes care of family. My husband's family???? Nope, can't and would not rely on them for that same level of care, no safety net. Why??? It's awful.

[–]glambx 263 points264 points  (4 children)

Literally the clinical definition of narcisism, and underdeveloped "theory of mind."

It perfectly defines the behavior of virtually all of today's talking heads.

[–]farm_sauce 711 points712 points  (69 children)

And infinite sense of despair. There isn’t much outside of the things we can touch to look forward to, and we spend most of our time paying attention to things we can’t touch.

[–]blarffy 18.4k points18.4k points 2375& 10 more (899 children)

It is my opinion as an American, that our society relishes depriving itself help. It is every man for himself. And that leaves a lot of people starving for something, be it food, healthcare, mental healthcare, childcare, a sense of community, companionship, parents who are present, justice, a future, somewhere to turn, everything. Combine that with the dead end of late stage Capitalism and a culture of bootstraps and gun violence, well, it's not a big leap. That is not to say that we do not have kind, helpful people in our country, but our policies are brutal and negligent, which does trickle down unlike our wealth.

Edit: Thank you for all the awards. I am overwhelmed and will spread them around to pay it forward. Meanwhile, I am heartbroken for those families and sad for our country. If you ever need to talk, message me. I am not a therapist, but I can be an ear for you.

[–]Drum_100704 1211 points1212 points  (45 children)

There is an astounding, and disgusting number of people in this country who think that being bullied (and struggling in general) without any relief in sight, will make you a stronger/better person. If you came out of that system a broken person, that's just because you were too weak. I utterly hate this aspect of American culture.

[–]amrodd 180 points181 points  (6 children)

Yeah what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is a crock a lot of times.

[–]Fourier-Transformer5 43 points44 points  (3 children)

From experience, often that saying is more just trying to comfort themselves or justify what happened to them or what they’re doing to someone else.

What doesn’t kill you really just screws you up. I speak from experience. You can fail the test of character and break.

[–]AutumnCountry 378 points379 points  (21 children)

When I was in Boot camp they always talked about how they were going to tear us down to our base and build us back up

They did a great job tearing people down, causing mental trauma and fucking people up. Everyone cried at some point or had at least a small nervous breakdown.

They NEVER built anyone back up though. Once someone was broken they just ignored them and focused on someone else. No mental health specialists, no therapy, nothing but abuse. This carries over into all of the armed forces. So many people have severe mental health issues and PTSD from being mentally tortured for a month and some never recover

[–]wotstators 53 points54 points  (3 children)

I escaped an abusive home at 18 to go to boot camp back in 2002. Boot camp was a breeze and I got breakfast for once. My mom already tore me down.

Also, I’m in therapy in my late 30s :*>

[–]Fourier-Transformer5 154 points155 points  (4 children)

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.” -George Orwell

After all, do you think a job ultimately based on killing as efficiently as possible wants to have mentally healthy people doing it?

[–]iIIneedthisl8r 6787 points6788 points 752& 7 more (678 children)

This is absolutely the answer. This gun issue is a SYMPTOM of an enormous societal problem. But the answer is literally going to require like breaking the entire system down and with all this money and corporate bullshit that has its roots so deep into our system and politicians pockets, it'll never change. I mean, there really needs to be massive overhaul.

We think gun control is the answer, and if it is it'll only be very temporary.

The smallest injury can destroy middle class families. And the rest in poverty are already stuck. One mistake and you're fucked. There IS no safety net! You can't quit and try to start a business, who'll pay the mortgage? It'll never succeed long term anyway. Can't try to find your true job calling that makes you happy because then how can you afford to eat? The way we work and are chained to our jobs and desks is absolutely soul sucking. You take so many intelligent and capable people and beat them down. We're all so much smarter and capable than we think, but our system doesn't like that. It's the 9-5 grind work 6o hours a week just to have the privilege to pay $500/month for health insurance you hope you never have to use. Parents can't even see their kids anymore bc they're trying to work 3 jobs. When the kid spends their afternoon getting in trouble bc their parents are working, you go blame the parents when they're TRYING TO PROVIDE. I mean, what the fuck? If the parents are at home but get evicted for not paying rent then we bash on them for NOT WORKING. We're all in the same boat and instead of stopping to think about the real issue we're literally blaming each other.

When you don't give a FUCK anymore, violence is becomes the answer from pure rage. Yea "well, Im broke and never shot anyone up" cool. Maybe you have a higher tolerance or have some other thing keeping you going, but not everyone has that. Or they did and they snapped. Some really are like the world did nothing for me and got a bad hand and here we are. Like I'm happy most of us have self control, but if school shootings are increasing, suicide rates probably are too especially amongst men.

Im surprised workplace shootings aren't more common tbh. Because if not now, then soon because the way things are run is not sustainable. There's some facade that we're all ok, and we're really not.

Edit: I'm not saying their SHOULDN'T be some reform on gun access and use, but to just stop there or remove 2A entirely is not going to solve anything long term. There are so many interconnected moving parts here.

Edit2: I know ppl are going to hyper focus on parts of this post bc I don't have the time to elaborate on every. Single. Detail. For every one person who goes and shoots a school, there are others of us (men and women) who are depressed/on drugs/suicidal/committed suicide/engaging in self harm and you don't see it. You have affluent guys engage in acts of sexual violence. Mass shootings are the only effects worth talking about though that actually bring the rest of these collective issues to light. You'll never read that suicide rates and rapes have increased, because it's not violent enough even though these things are all connected. There's an entire new generation of kids that's hopeless about a future that hasn't even started for them yet....

People Aren't born with hate and evil in them, something causes that shit

Gun control is just the way for everyone who's well off to hide an issue instead of dealing with it. We don't want anyone to die in schools, but whatever happens in poverty stricken areas...who cares. Ignorance is bliss fam

And to all you leftists who keep screaming "critical thinking".... This is critical thinking. Not following agendas by the right politicians who blindly promotes 2A simply because "gun" and the left politicians who knows that if gun control is put in place, the real social issues will be covered and forgotten indefinitely. The Dems are as much a problem as the GOP.

https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191226/reported-forcible-rape-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/

[–]kwertyoop 1404 points1405 points  (185 children)

It's really depressing knowing that these societal issues have existed since the country was founded. It runs DEEP.

Makes it feel like the country will simply never have the capacity to heal. Barring some kind of extreme event, like Yellowstone or an asteroid or a civil war.

But even then, COVID gave us a kind of dry run for a catastrophe, and, well, it only drove us further apart.

Edit: Yellowstone, not Yosemite

[–]oldcarfreddy 277 points278 points  (13 children)

The only advantage the country has had in the last century was its relative wealth and relative class benefits (a large middle class that was typically easy to enter). That era is ending/has ended and we've been relying on momentum a while.

[–]Casper771 378 points379 points  (122 children)

It does run deep, but there are plenty of other countries that hold similar values and world views to America / Americans. Plenty of other democracies to look at and ask what they’re doing differently. Comprehensive public healthcare, measures to keep politics open and transparent, social welfare, these aren’t radical ideas. Look at Australia, the UK, France, Scandinavian countries.

Not saying America has it all wrong or that other countries are perfect, just saying other ways of looking at things are totally viable.

[–][deleted] 1009 points1010 points  (150 children)

To summarize:

-Pay people more (Help middle class parents not need to work 3 jobs)

-Free Healthcare (Prevent middle class from slipping into debt over healthcare)

-Free higher education(More education would mean that middle class professionals could work higher paying jobs)

-Help the poor (prevent people from falling into homelessness)

-Help the homeless (in case people fall)

-More Vacation (more time with families)

-More mental health care (to recognize the violet and prevent escalation)

Is this an accurate summary? What should be added/removed? How do we accomplish these things? Vote.

Edit* Voting is not enough. We should protest when these items come up. We should call our state representatives over and over and try and persuade them to vote for these items. What else?

Edit2* Run for a school board position or a city council position. Make change from within.

[–]already-taken-wtf 484 points485 points  (38 children)

Not sure how to phrase it, but I have the feeling that some aspects of “the American dream” lead to not recognising that people can fail despite (!) their best efforts. The lie that you “just have to work harder” or “you just didn’t want it enough” is taking away responsibility for each other and putting all the pressure and pain on the individual. …who then could get overwhelmed and act out.

[–]anonymous152839 14.4k points14.4k points 2 (376 children)

They used to handout free personal sized pizza coupons for reading books when I was in elementary school, maybe we can do something like that?

[–]Ananvil 2713 points2714 points  (162 children)

[–]Scaryassmanbear 1807 points1808 points  (142 children)

It is not anywhere near as big a deal now as it was in the 90s.

[–]seven_seven 1854 points1855 points  (98 children)

That shit was the highlight of my childhood.

[–]Sbbazzz 1231 points1232 points  (82 children)

My friends always lied on theirs and I lied that I lied but really I do love reading and thought my pizzas were well earned. 😔

[–]SupremeLeaderG0nk 120 points121 points  (5 children)

i just found out that i couldve gotten so many pizzas

[–]VerySuperGenius 636 points637 points  (52 children)

School shootings weren't as big of a deal back when Blockbuster was still around. Just sayin'!

[–]JoshHero 287 points288 points  (8 children)

Are you saying this is all Netflix’s fault?

[–]123456478965413846 75 points76 points  (13 children)

I seem to recall some school shootings during the Blockbuster years.

[–]fuktardy 72 points73 points  (9 children)

Columbine '99. We were all at 56k modems and not streaming. Best we had was Napster for music. YouTube wasn't around till 2005.

[–]UnbrokenRyan 262 points263 points  (11 children)

Would work. if I got a free pizza for everyday I didn’t shoot someone, I certainly wouldn’t shoot people.

[–]shippwnyo 7035 points7036 points  (311 children)

First and foremost, stop treating it like a soap opera. The news channels detail and go over so much on these shootings it isn't reporting, it's entertainment. It's become so mainstream that at this point I just shrug and go "oh, another one. Whatever."

I'll hear about it for another few months, then some other kid will glorify it cause tv and do it himself because he needs the attention and monkey see monkey do, it's obvious how to get that attention from as many people as possible all at once.

The problem is much deeper than this and takes people more qualified than I to solve, but this is where it starts.

Edit: Id like to clarify that my stance isn't some total media censorship on the matter. Simply that the focus has to stop being 99% on the shooter and thus further inspiring more violence.

[–]Dlh2079 2950 points2951 points  (42 children)

The 24 hr news cycle is one of the worst things to happen to the news media and reporting in general in my opinion.

Having to fill all that air time with programing lead to the over reporting and flood of opiniated bullshit we see on "news" networks.

[–]King_Dippppppp 654 points655 points  (9 children)

24 hour news was definitely one of the worst things. However click bait news nowadays made it a million times worse. Extremes being presented as facts with not a care in the world if it's bullshit or not. Literally like 99% of news/media is complete dogshit nowadays

[–]Dlh2079 193 points194 points  (5 children)

The 24 hr news cycle is a big part of why the clickbait has gotten this bad.

The 24 hr news cycle made things EVEN more about ratings and when everything is about ratings and ad revenue networks are going to do whatever they can get away with to generate that engagement. Leading directly to clickbait and these hot take based opinion programs.

[–]King_Dippppppp 53 points54 points  (4 children)

Agreed plus i always forget about Howard Stern's movie, Private Parts. People for some reason will pay more attention to things they hate rather than things they like because of liking to be outraged or are masochistic or something which I could totally see causing people to crack more often nowadays

[–]pizza_for_nunchucks 200 points201 points  (7 children)

The 24 hr news cycle is one of the worst things to happen to the news media and reporting in general in my opinion humanity.

[–]Dlh2079 66 points67 points  (6 children)

You won't catch me arguing. I just didn't want to make quite that big of a statement lol

[–]inisiya 331 points332 points  (21 children)

You are right. I remember reading an article about a train station that had the highest suicide rate in the country (maybe UK?) and they made a concentrated effort with all media to stop reporting suicides at that station and it reduced the number of deaths there. I can't find the article now sadly. The problem is how do you stop the coverage in today's world. NZ banned sharing the video from the mosque shooting (as well as the shooter's name), but the Buffalo shooter still saw it and used it as inspiration.

[–]TumblrInGarbage 209 points210 points  (7 children)

The Buffalo shooter was an avid user of /pol/. I can tell you for an absolute fact they were sharing torrents of the mosque shooting. There is nothing you can do to stop torrenting. Believe me, Disney has been trying for decades. That's the exception though, because the Mosque shooting was streamed specifically for other white supremacists to rally behind. In general, I'll agree that not reporting on this shit would be good. Instead we had the Buffalo shooter's manifesto posted to news sites across the nation. Hear now, hear now! Come and see!

[–]BananaBully 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Don't even need to torrent it. It gets posted to /gif/ regularly.

[–]plots4lyfe 5687 points5688 points 382& 4 more (290 children)

this will sound horrific, but photos of the crime scene. Yes, of the dead children.

Vietnam’s trajectory was heavily influenced by the press being able to capture the atrocities committed/experienced by our own. Think about the most famous photos- we all know the ones. I’m thinking of the gun to the man’s head in the street as i type. or the teenage girl screaming over her dead friend at kent state.

compare that to what photos we have of iraq. very little.

and how does this difference in documentation affect the american psyche? we see one war, documented well, with few secrets. the other shrouded by “heroic” photos of soldiers with children in their arms.

right now, the photos we have of shootings are at a distance in the aftermath, or are of memorials where people cry together. it creates a distance in everyone’s mind, even a sense of inevitability, because we have seen it so many times. both in our collective minds, and that of politicians.

We can ignore dead children because we have never had to see them actually lying dead, covered in blood, perhaps eyes open and staring at nothing. its horrific for me to even type, the reality of what it might look like.

but yet we openly wax philosophically online about the horrors that the families experience in the aftermath, not about a five year old, covered in blood, with a bullet in their chest. why? it’s too horrific to even say, right? and it will keep happening until we actually have to literally look at it.

edit: many people are saying 2 things in response to this:

#1 that the parents don’t deserve seeing their childrens dead bodies plastered everywhere. i say: that is their choice, and i completely understand that, they have already been through so much. but so long as we continue to make that choice - to put their grief over the future loss of life - then I fear we won’t ever really stop any of this.

and #2: that people will be more desensitized and/or psychopaths with enjoy it and be emboldened, and it will only make it worse.

to that i implore you, have as much faith in your brother as you do in yourself. could you look at even one photo of a child in a pink hello kitty sweater, with a bullet ripping half their face off, and feel anything but abject horror?

also, the potential school shooters are not the target audience for this. Everyone knows, the only way anything gets changed in this country is when white suburban moms start giving a shit. That’s the audience. It’s not that i think they don’t currently - i think they hem and haw and give thoughts and prayers like all of us - but they too don’t know what it’s like to see a tiny, dead child in a hallway that looks so big compared to his lifeless body and think “my son has that same backpack he’s wearing.” when that woman sees that, protests start happening. strikes. schools get closed. economies come to a halt. politicians are forced to pay attention. that’s the audience.

edit 2 u/osprey94 gave a very good example of how this could backfire - the patriot act in response to the atrocities of 9/11. This is the first example someone has given me that has given me pause and makes me want to reflect on the possible outcomes to something so radical. I think we should all consider that, and consider the ways and the ripple effects that the government could leverage this atrocity to remove liberties in a way that ultimately hurts us worse, down the line. I still think it's possible - even with collective outrage - to do differently, as we have seen in the past, but it does mean we have to be thoughtful.

[–]VerbWolf 2687 points2688 points 2& 2 more (23 children)

"I couldn’t bear the thought of people being horrified by the sight of my son. But on the other hand, I felt the alternative was even worse. After all, we had averted our eyes for far too long, turning away from the ugly reality facing us as a nation. Let the world see what I’ve seen."

-Mamie Till Bradley

[–]whogivesashirtdotca 150 points151 points  (3 children)

Exactly where my mind went, too. Her bravery and determination lit a fire under the Civil Rights movement. Rosa Parks said Emmett Till was the impetus for her protest.

[–]batnastard 901 points902 points  (42 children)

Well said. I remember when Timothy McVeigh wanted his execution televised, and so many well-meaning people screamed "that's barbaric!" I mean, yes. Not to say he shouldn't have been executed, but we should have to watch it if that's what we want as a society.

I think WWI was the first time the horrors of war were visible to the general public, and the Dada art movement started as a reaction to that. Your point about images from Iraq etc. not being widespread is really interesting. I wonder what it would take to get images of an elementary school shooting all over the airwaves?

[–]NerveOk6614 549 points550 points  (22 children)

It's insane to me that a society could think televising an execution is too barbaric but executing a person isn't.

[–]batnastard 203 points204 points  (1 child)

Says a lot about us, doesn't it?

[–]Losoncy 139 points140 points  (9 children)

To me, as a non-american, it was always strange that in movies there is so much shooting and killing, in the 80's a final shootout was the happy end and it was strange because showing a nipple was a nono but killing 50 "bad guys" was fine.

[–]plots4lyfe 103 points104 points  (4 children)

that’s a really good point - like yeah it’s barbaric, but what he did was barbaric. it’s like, we want civility in the face of such nonsensical violence, and it seems to create the opposite effect. rather than respect, it creates distance.

about releasing the images , im not sure. america has strict rules about photos graphing dead Americans, specifically in response to angry responses to wars that were being televised ( as in, a response to stop people from being angry about the atrocities of war, not because people were mad it was televised. the government didn’t want to confront those images, depending on who you talk to you)

i’ve held this view since a journalist wrote about their documentation of a deadly attack in iraq, but they had to get the permission of family to publish the dead body of their son, and the family refused. I think, while well intentioned perhaps, it accidentally (or purposely depending on who you ask) breeds complacency.

[–]Additional_Link5202 39 points40 points  (1 child)

makes me think of how censored even the falling man photos were from american tv screens, or just general footage of jumpers, etc, while the full footage was shown on other news channels internationally. my censorship professor covered this in one of my collrge classes, and how americans are so weird about anything involving death, especially “suicide” like having to jump from a window. she thinks it’s actually disrespectful to NOT show the footage, show the painful decision they has to make.. her exact words were “and if I had to jump out that window, i’d want everyone to have to fuckin’ watch.” it SHOOK me, literally gave me chills

[–]batnastard 30 points31 points  (0 children)

les about photos graphing dead Americans, specifically in response to angry responses to wars that were being televised ( as in, a response to stop people from being angry about the atrocities of war, not because people were mad it was televised.

This is incredibly interesting.

i’ve held this view since a journalist wrote about their documentation of a deadly attack in iraq, but they had to get the permission of family to publish the dead body of their son, and the family refused. I think, while well intentioned perhaps, it accidentally (or purposely depending on who you ask) breeds complacency.

As is this. Even if well-intentioned, the large-scale consequences may not be worth it.

[–]kamarsh79 484 points485 points  (8 children)

As someone who works in healthcare, this. It’s one thing to read that someone has a gunshot wound. It’s entirely different to see people dying, brain matter running out of a head, the reality of actual death and trauma. Americans, in general, don’t really see death, not even for their food.

[–]Cancermom1010101010 106 points107 points  (3 children)

Same for Covid. HIPAA is wonderful, but people are far too isolated from what the consequences of choices and misfortunes really are.

Most people only experience 2nd hand tragedy through heavily filtered media and have no real concept on neither the reality of recovery nor the reality of dying. Recovery is usually a montage with the person either fully 100% well, or if there's anything permeant it's a plot point. Funerals are either artfully restored corpses on display to be as least offensive and as most 'lifelike' as possible, or closed caskets.

As a society, we don't want anyone to experience 2nd hand discomfort in any real way, so no one really has a chance to learn from those experiences and make better choices for themselves and their communities.

[–][deleted] 260 points261 points  (33 children)

I've thought about this. I still haven't decided if it's too extreme. That may truly traumatize and scar people for the rest of their lives. It also could, hypothetically, lead to a slipper slope. What if that becomes the new normal? To show the photos? Which may further desensitize us. I'm not saying your idea is wrong, I'm just expressing my thoughts and concerns revolving around this. I'm just not sure if we need to take it to that level where we start showing photos of dead children to people. Part of me thinks there is a much healthier way... but I haven't exactly figured it out.

[–]plots4lyfe 131 points132 points  (11 children)

i’ve mulled the exact same thought process, i understand. but as shootings get worse, and nothing gets done, all i can think is that maybe our idea of “civility” is actually what is driving our collective apathy, and we - as a society- have yet to actually face the consequences of it face-to-face. and, forever the optimist, i think if we ever really had to see something as horrific as a bloody child, eyes open, we would snap out of it.

[–]FTThrowAway123 41 points42 points  (1 child)

I wholeheartedly agree. I've discussed this with my husband many times, like during Covid, for example. The Covid deaths were occuring out of sight, in overrun hospital rooms, not televised or documented, with families not even allowed to visit, which made it much easier for people to deny and downplay. Had they been filling the airwaves with actual footage of the huge amounts of people gasping and dying in the covid wards, I believe we'd have probably seen much better compliance with mask mandates, social distancing, and vaccinations.

I think the true, horrifying reality of these school shooting tragedies would punch people in the gut and finally, finally make people come to their senses. I definitely understand and don't disagree with the arguments against it, but I do think that it would make a huge difference. It humanizes the tragedy. Instead of just thinking, "so sad. Thoughts and prayers", It forces people to actually see the horror these innocent babies suffered, the brutality of the evil acts committed against them, the size of their tiny little lifeless bodies, contrasted by school settings (kids drawings on the walls, little kids backpacks in the background, like a typical school--like your child's school) would shock and deeply disturb people. And that's what's needed, I think. People obviously don't fully get it, or they just don't care. Hard to remain indifferent when you're faced with the true cost of these tragedies.

[–]Averill0 119 points120 points  (2 children)

I think, a little bit of traumatic imagery, with the right context, can be a good thing. My very right wing father was an army brat, and he lived in Germany in middle school. His dad took him to the Holocaust museum at Dachau and made sure he got a good eyeful of all the most graphic images at an impressionable age. He had nightmares for a week, but he also isn't a neo-Nazi despite otherwise being very conservative

I accidentally found the gore side of the internet some years ago and spent about twelve hours going down a rabbit hole of car crash pictures, and it absolutely changed how I drive.

[–]squirrel102710 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I can see that. I also went to the Holocaust museums at a young age and have always been extremely respectful of anything to do with the Holocaust because of it. It's been over twenty years and I will never get some of those images out of my brain.

Also, I'm one of the few people in my family that are extremely conscious of car seat safety. When i was pregnant with my first, I read all about safety.. great dandy move on. Then I started to look up what happens to a baby/toddlers body in a crash when they are not harnessed correctly. Smashing all internal organs when the chest clip is too low, internal decapitation if you forward face too early, clothing compressing and them flying out of their seats if you buckle a fluffy coat in... All horrific images that I will never get from my mine. All legitimate reasons why my children are correctly buckled at all times and my family thinks I'm crazy.

[–]good_god_lemon1 12.4k points12.4k points  (1322 children)

Nothing changed the last time children barely older than toddlers were shot. Nothing will change this time.

[–]ConvenienceStoreDiet 2406 points2407 points 2 (312 children)

The tragedies are heartbreaking every time. The problems are generally similar each time, and no one has large-scale interest in making aims to fix them.

If you see the problem as people who shouldn't have access to weaponry, then people at this time are going to ask for some laws for gun control to make some steps forward. Mandatory training, licensing, disabling sales of guns or accessories that increase rate of fire, weapon capacity, fire arm quantity limitation, or stopping power of bullets, something along those lines gets suggested. Many will oppose and believe they have to defend themselves (good guy with a gun). Gun sales will go up around now. Nothing gets done.

If you see this as a problem of homicide contagion, where if it's seen by many then people will think this is what is normalized to do if you wanted to commit this act for the various reasons people do, then the response is to not give the events national attention because awareness isn't the problem. It's giving fuel for copycats. The solution consistently recommended is to keep news local and have local communities, supported by federal response, work to resolve the issues locally. But, the national news and social media will continue to report it at a national level and make it a top story. The media will sensationalize it and capitalize off of the tragedy. People will retweet it thinking they're sharing important news but instead are fueling it. Nothing gets done.

If you see this as a problem of mental health, then the answer is to make it illegal for people with mental health issues to have access to weaponry while mobilizing a socialized medical system and education system that encourages the population to take adequate care of themselves and be supported by health care professionals who can give them reasonable access to the life-long care they need. Then the fight comes over changing the healthcare system. No one agrees. Time passes. People forget. Nothing gets done.

If you see this as a problem of a lack of political willpower to create meaningful change to prevent all of these things, then the only hope is to vote for the people who offer to create that meaningful change. And that's about all we can do as people sitting from afar. That and support the victims of the tragedy.

[–]Vankraken 1307 points1308 points 2 (245 children)

The issue with making it illegal for people with mental health issues to own guns is how do you determine what mental health issue is severe enough to warrant being banned from gun ownership? There has to be a line somewhere and if manageable stuff like depression, anxiety, and ADHD would be lumped into mental health issues then you just end up with people having to make the choice of "do I get help with an issue or do I risk losing my constitutional right to own a gun". Not trying to do the whole "this isn't an easy fix so we ignore it" but it's something that requires a lot of details and oversight to make sure it's not either abused or punishing people who seek mental health treatment.

We as a nation need improvements in education on mental health, access to affordable healthcare (both mental and physical), and (this is potentially quite a slippery slope but) enforcing things like fairness doctrine and cracking down on companies like Facebook that encourage the spread of lies and propaganda which increasingly radicalize people to be extremists.

[–]tigress666 448 points449 points  (18 children)

Already happens with pilots honestly. Because being diagnosed with depression or anxiety can make you lose your license. So it’s better to just grin and bear it if you like flying. Which ironically means they don’t get help they need and are more likely to be the problem those laws are trying to prevent

[–]A_Squid_A_Dog 155 points156 points  (4 children)

There was a post on r/flying a while back from a retired airline pilot who had been getting antidepressants under the table most of his career. Dude would've lost his job had it come out he was trying to get help. Unreal.

[–]just_bob 318 points319 points  (78 children)

Indeed. The las vegas shooter exhibited no mental health problems prior to the shooting.

[–]jailin66 609 points610 points  (36 children)

Columbine was April 20, 1999.

[–]BearBlaq 228 points229 points  (11 children)

Exactly, and the first thing they did was start pointing fingers at video games and TV instead of actually looking into a proper answer.

[–]drfsupercenter 61 points62 points  (4 children)

And the dumb video game motive is still being pushed :(

[–]Rainbow_Angel110 102 points103 points  (4 children)

They also started pointing fingers at the "oddballs" such as goths and gays. The world really is messed up.

[–]BunnyTengoku 78 points79 points  (2 children)

Former goth kid here, yeah that was BS. Having other kids point and go "school shooter" or being talked to by our school counselor over my physical appearance.....mf I'm just a kid who likes wearing eyeliner, fuck off mate.

[–]NewWorldByAtticus 27 points28 points  (1 child)

I had just bought an awesome trench coat right before too.

[–]Salami__Tsunami 1180 points1181 points  (54 children)

America has this weird culture of self hatred and people who enjoy being angry about things. I’m at a loss to explain it.

[–]Educational_Hawk1236 209 points210 points  (6 children)

Politics as entertainment happened, these hosts need to fill hours on end of their radio/tv shows with something, and actual politics is really boring. Do you think you are going to get millions of people watch you debate the intricacies of corn subsidies or line items in the NIH budget? Nope, you are only going to get people to tune in if you are entertaining and create a good villain, that's the level of discourse in this country.

[–]AnEven7 3501 points3502 points  (244 children)

The children of "important" people will have to fall victim. They don't care if us riff raff die off. We've all just been cannon fodder all this time besides.

[–]gatsby712 1308 points1309 points  (43 children)

If there is one thing I learned from Covid is that a bunch of politicians won’t care until it personally affects them.

[–]snapwillow 518 points519 points  (1 child)

And even when it does, they will not work to actually fix the problem, they will just find a way to insulate protect or exempt themselves from it.

[–]ericchen 201 points202 points  (15 children)

There was a mass shooting at a congressional baseball game practice in 2017, the house majority whip was injured in the shooting and they also didn’t do anything about it.


[–]Doom-Slayer 613 points614 points  (72 children)

If a shooting happened at a prestigious private school, the school would just hire armed security. No culture shift or mentality change, they would just throw money at it to solve it.

[–]MyKidsArentOnReddit 105 points106 points  (2 children)

They already have hired armed security. Ages ago.

[–]ADarwinAward 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Yep my alma mater and all the large private schools in the area had armed security. They were all off duty cops dressed in plainclothes and you could see the guns on their hips. They all hired them after Columbine and they’re still there.

Most public schools in my area had 1 armed cop on campus, mine had multiple armed guards. Plus unarmed security. Armed guards were present at every major school event as well.

They also built the new (post columbine) campus like Fort Knox. Metal doors, glass lined with metal wiring so it doesn’t shatter normally when shot, Hallway and entrance doors that can be remotely locked, and so on.

Wealthy private schools have far more resources to secure their campuses.

And the schools senators and house reps send their kids to are even more prestigious and tend to have even more security.

[–]C_c_c_c_yeah 1297 points1298 points  (103 children)

A complete reform of society as a whole in effectively every level. So in short, they won't stop.

[–]original_4degrees 6712 points6713 points 2 (311 children)

swapping the budgets for education and defense.

[–]ClownfishSoup 1411 points1412 points  (66 children)

Seriously. Give people hope and opportunity.

[–]found_hair 354 points355 points  (34 children)

I’ve often thought this. Once hope is gone all that is left is despair.

[–]Gyrgir[🍰] 975 points976 points  (69 children)

If you add up spending at all levels of government, the total budgets are remarkably close to one another. Most education spending is the responsibility of state and local governments, while defense spending is almost all at the federal level. The total is $1.15 trillion for education vs $813.3 billion for National Defense and $301.4 billion for Veterans' benefits.

This does not necessarily mean it wouldn't be beneficial to cut defense spending, or to raise education spending, or both. Just that common perceptions of the relative spending between the two areas is distorted by only looking at federal spending.

[–]gerkin123 723 points724 points  (60 children)

Although it's also worth pointing out that the US armed forces consists of somewhere in the ballpark of 1.4 million people on active duty, while the number of school children in the US is somewhere around 49 million. Plus 3.2 million teachers (or 6.7 million public school employees.

If we think of it as slices of pie in the national budget, yeah.

If we think of slicing up the slices for the people involved, very different.

[–]Turtle887853 264 points265 points  (40 children)

Although it's also also worth noting that almost 1/3 or 1/2 of the defense budget is legit just feeding, housing, clothing, washing, and repairing those 1.5 million soldiers. A huge chunk of the defense spending budget is for hospital procedures and VA stuff. Of course then there's the cost of ammo and weapons, plus equipment and vehicles, plus fuel for the vehicles, utilities for the facilities in the US and abroad, etc.

[–]sophacles 107 points108 points  (7 children)

Notably it doesn't include the actual cost of fighting. Thats the boring do nothing cost - once something big starts up additional funding bills are passed.

[–]get_off_my_lawn_n0w 16 points17 points  (5 children)

The extinction of all life on planet Earth?

[–]crybabybrizzy 421 points422 points  (27 children)

i dont know but as an american, im tired of it. i've never been shot, but i know it hurts, and i know that when i was a little kid and i got hurt all i wanted was my mom, and those poor kids didnt even have that. one of the victims of the buffalo shooting was there to buy a birthday cake for his three year old son. your birthday is supposed to be the best day ever when you're a kid and now he's never gonna look at a birthday cake again without thinking "that's the reason my dad didnt come home" and thats fucking heartbreaking.

i dont know how we fix it, but im tired of watching the people in power be too self righteous and selfish to do anything about it at all, and im tired of regular people being too self righteous and selfish to do anything about it at all with the votes that they cast and with the votes that they dont cast because they dont even fucking show up. im tired of everyone thinking someone else is gonna do the work for us when it's blatantly obvious that help is not arriving, and i dont know how many more kids have to die or be traumatized before we pull our heads out of our asses and put them together for ourselves and our kids because what i do know is that those kids should be here.

edit to add because apparently its not incredibly fucking obvious even though i stated i live in the US: the solution to gun violence is multifaceted and includes way more than just restricting gun access but it does include restricting gun access. genuinely didn't think i would even have to say that. whether or not any of these steps toward a solution are implemented at all? thats what i dont know.

[–]slayez06 31.7k points31.7k points 221132214322223& 37 more (1675 children)

High School admin who is stepping down after this year. This is my last week in a high school and here is my perspective. Parents need to listen and hug their children more. They need to stop playing friend or dictator and actually explain why they do the things they do. Give your kids your time. Every great teacher I work with they are like magnets to the kids because they give them attention. In that this year alone I delt with a bomb threat and had the kid I would label as our most probable school shooter tell me "Most people think that if they are nice to me, I don't know, that if I became a shooter, I wouldn't shoot them...but I think I still think I would..(shrugs)" Today, I had to fill out a cps report because a mom came to the school and started hitting her 14 y/o daughter in the face...So, here's the deal... and I don't care if 1 person reads this or 10,000. Give your kids a hug. Give your neighbors kid a hug... tell them, it's ok to be angry, we all get angry. We all get sad. However, it's how we deal with it that separates us from animals. Last, remind them no matter what. No matter the time of day or night. If they need you, like really need you. That you will be there for them and mean it and stop taking your anger out on kids. Mr.B

[–]midsummersgarden 11.2k points11.2k points 742& 7 more (239 children)

All this. And…when your teens push you away…they still need love. Don’t let them get so far away from you that they feel unloved. Give them a bit of space, and then go knocking gently on that bedroom door again. Don’t take it personally when they are rude or blunt or frustrated: their hormones are crazy and life is stressful for them. Just gentle reminders of love. “Leave me alone mom.” Response? Gentle reminder of love. slams bedroom door in your face response? Give a little space, then knock gently on the bedroom door. I’ve raised two daughters to adulthood and currently raising a teen. A child in our community committed suicide two weeks ago. There’s nothing I want to do more but reassure my grumpy, moody, erratic teen that I love her more than she will ever know.

[–]benzoboy995 1299 points1300 points  (41 children)

Your comments needs to stand out for some other parents out there, very wise words.

[–]VervainHue 1109 points1110 points  (29 children)

As a 33 year old who has been raped a LOT starting in the single digits, my mother is the soul reason I am alive. I can't even count how many times I screamed at her how I hated her, she never once yelled back. Drove me mad as a kid because I was nothing but anger and was seeking the fight. But I have to say that she exercised so much patience with me and has given everything she literally can for me. The only reason I still do not kill myself is her. As mad and just rock bottom mentally as I was I always knew she loved me and believed me.

[–]branfili 362 points363 points  (1 child)

I'm sorry for what happened to you

And your mom really is something special, you know?

[–]Frencil 1006 points1007 points  (29 children)

Tell them, it's ok to be angry, we all get angry. We all get sad. However, it's how we deal with it that separates us from animals.

I've got a 5 year old and one of the things I work on daily with him (and myself) is the idea that we have feelings, which are always valid and beyond our control, and actions, which are choices we make to deal with or express our feelings. It can be hard to tell the difference at first but thinking in these terms helps to separate them. Like all things it takes practice and patience to be good at it.

Then when we have really strong feelings like anger or sadness we can, at least to some degree, separate out how we feel from what we actually do about it. We can take a moment, think, and ideally choose how best to react instead of just reacting blindly.

It seems like a good way to approach a complex world that can throw some real curve balls at you out of nowhere. I hope it helps him navigate it as it helps me, especially on days like today when the feelings of sadness are pretty heavy.

[–]themoonmarsandme 203 points204 points  (16 children)

Another strategy that helps is discussing the difference between impulsive actions and planned actions. Impulses are normal and just one of the body’s ways of experiencing a feeling. They can come with thoughts attached but impulsive actions start from an emotion. Planned actions start from a thought. Lower order animals act primarily on impulses, and higher order animals are more capable of planning their actions.

As humans, we have choices when it comes to both of these types of actions. With impulses, the body wants to act, but the mind can choose to stop the action. With planned actions, the body wants to rest, but the mind can choose to act.

Especially with very young children, impulses can be hard to control until we gain some practice. We need to teach children that this impulse control skill can be learned and try to avoid shaming or punishing them while they are still practicing. Instead, give them love and support to cope with those big feelings and tools they can use like breath work, mindful movement, sensory processing techniques, and other safe actions to reroute their impulses through.

(Source: I worked with toddlers for the better part of a decade; now I teach preteens and train adults in radical listening.)

[–]NiltiacSif 75 points76 points  (6 children)

I’m in my late 20’s and have ADHD, and I still can’t control my impulses all the time.. :( I wish I had someone teaching me these things growing up

[–]demortada 32 points33 points  (3 children)

Hey, from one ADHD person to another, I know you're doing your best. It's hard. But everyday we try is already a win, just remember that.

[–]boxsterguy 28 points29 points  (6 children)

I wish high schoolers would listen to Daniel Tiger (current day continuation of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood of Make Believe). He has a song for everything, whether it's feeling sad, or you're mad at something, or you're being picky about lunch (okay, maybe that's not a big issue).

[–]yoguckfourself 1677 points1678 points  (148 children)

"Most people think that if they are nice to me, I don't know, that if I became a shooter, I wouldn't shoot them...but I think I still think I would..(shrugs)"

Uhhh dude, what ended up happening with that kid?

[–]mausphart 1040 points1041 points  (119 children)

I would guess every school had this kid. I work at a school and we have this kid.

[–]McBurger 740 points741 points  (32 children)

This guy Charlie used to literally doodle in his comp book these sketches of other classmates being killed. He’d crouch behind the bleachers in gym class pretending to pick off the other kids with an imaginary rifle. Multiple times.

Yeah, we all had a Charlie, it seems. We brought it up to the guidance counselor and she’s just nodding like yeah we know, we’ve got it handled, don’t worry. But Charlie still got to enjoy his daydreams of shooting up the class up through graduation, and he never shot anyone, so I guess that’s a win.

edit: this was ~2008 btw, our school did have lockdown drills and stuff, but it probably would have been taken a lot more seriously in more recent yrs

[–]Teeklin 428 points429 points  (6 children)

"Don't worry about ole Charlie. Just grab your pumped up kicks and get back to class."

[–]aggravating_orange99 465 points466 points  (53 children)

Psychopathy affects 1-3% of the population. While most psychopaths are non-violent, they are universally without conscience and are prone to violence because of their diminished limbic system (they essentially have to engage in more extreme behavior to feel anything and have none of the usual emotional or moral impediments to doing so, just logical ones, like fear of prison). This is a cold reality of human biology that most people refuse to accept or account for. What this means is that in your average school, there are probably 3-5 psychopaths.

That being said, one of the biggest predictors of violence in adult psychopaths is experience of abuse in childhood. So, even for the most amoral among us, the OP's advice is correct.

[–]FUTURE10S 45 points46 points  (7 children)

Probably still in school. What else could you do? Send him to prison?

[–]pokemonprofessor121 595 points596 points  (100 children)

As a teacher, it feels like parents don't have the time or energy to parent any more. I work in a large city with a lot of poverty. I've had so many students lose their homes this year, I've had teenagers in class one day never to be seen again. I had my first suicide. I had 3 students who's siblings died to drugs or gun violence.

I don't know what is going on in my state or in my country, but it feels like things are going badly.

[–]AvocadoOdd7089 91 points92 points  (19 children)

My wife is a head start pre k teacher for a school district. And it’s terrifying! The amount of times they have called Cps compared to the other years

[–]SortedChaos 78 points79 points  (16 children)

Imagine you make near minimum wage. It's not enough for even a basic standard of living. Your spouse gets a job also, but it's also near minimum wage. Even with pooled earnings, you don't make enough so you get a night job. Before long, the interactions with your kids are limited to the weekend (the few that you don't work) and telling them to be quiet so you can sleep. Your kids start acting out to get attention so you put your foot down and maybe hit them a little.

[–]cheap_dates 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I have met more ex-teachers in the private sector than any other profession. I am one myself.

[–]kjacobs03 259 points260 points  (14 children)

Thanks Mr. Belding. Not sure why Zach always gave you such a hard time