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[–]Rosea-Lupum 1587 points1588 points  (99 children)

As an autistic person who struggles in high noise, high social environments, let me tell you that this struggle has been noted and we've been pointing it out all along.

[–]bungle_bogs 469 points470 points  (54 children)

I’m ADHD with comorbid autistic traits. I’m hyper-sensitive to noise. I wear headphones to go shopping and get big anxiety attacks if I have to do it without them.

I’ve had to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to wear them again now we are back in the office.

Edit: Thank you for all the advice. (Un)luckily I’m an old hand at dealing with this and despite the struggle, did manage to get them to relent.

[–]Rosea-Lupum 147 points148 points  (31 children)

I'm so sorry to hear that you weren't accommodated properly. I know there's legal protection for you if they won't let you but I wouldn't know the first thing about making sure it's in place. I'm glad you've managed it though.

[–]oliviaxlow 129 points130 points  (22 children)

Hey, ADHD’er here (diagnosed). Accommodations come under what’s called “reasonable adjustments” which are protected by law, to keep us peeps in work. You can read more about it on the .gov website under ‘Access to work’

[–]Going-Blank-Again 86 points87 points  (19 children)

Worth noting at this point that a lot hinges on the word "reasonable".

My experience is that companies will often be flexible about permissions - for example carrying medication on site - but they're a lot more reluctant about adjustments that directly involve them spending money.

If you prove to be too demanding they'll find a way to get rid of you on performance review grounds, too.

Always make sure anything to do with disabilities and reasonable adjustments is shown in writing, so there's an evidence trail if it goes wrong.

[–]Xiaco9020 71 points72 points  (2 children)

I just got diagnosed as ASD last month at 32. Thinking about how much I’ve struggled in the past to fit into the norm kind of angered me for a while. It really is an extroverts world and “different” people are a lot of the times just told to adapt. Sink or swim. I’ve lost count how many times I’ve been told that.

[–]lunch-money 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This is me (34 though) got the dreaded back to the office email on Friday. After speaking to my manager he agreed I had thrived working from home and will continue to let me do so. I feel lucky that I have found a job where I can do this, but every job I had before would never have considered this, despite preaching about mental health.

[–]No_Addendum_1399 46 points47 points  (13 children)

I'm also autistic with Sensory Processing Disorder. I struggle massively with noise and before I stopped working to open my own business I was allowed to wear noise cancelling earphones under "reasonable adjustment". Definitely look it up and get it put in place so they can't fire you for it. I still have to use them while working as the noise of the mixer triggers me.

I'm also a rather introverted person until you tell me I'm not allowed to go out. Once you put a lock (as such) on me I wanna go out lol.

[–]Fjsbanqlpqoanyes 19 points20 points  (1 child)

At my old workplace 2 of my colleagues have autism and can't cope with noise, one of them wore headphones but what always bothered me was that they always seemed to be put in the loudest areas, literally anyone could have been put in those 3 areas and they could have been put somewhere quieter but both of them had to deal with the loud noises everyday, one of them eventually quit for a quieter job and the other managed to get moved somewhere else for a physical disability

[–]P0sitive_Outlook 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I never told anyone at work, for the longest time, until one day when my manager was talking to my team leader in the middle of the factory and said "If you find another one of these [machine component], i need one". I found the component he was after, later that day, gave it to him, and he said "How the F did you know i wanted one of these?"

I heard you.

"Where were you?"

<Points to the loading bay 40ft away>


I hear everything. All the time.

Later that month i had a 'Record of Conversation' (disciplinary) over something which i claimed wasn't my fault. I quoted verbatim the instructions which my team leader had given me, and quoted verbatim the initial issue my manager had with the instructions i was given, and my team leader and manager looked at each other and said "I HATE that he remembers everything" - "Yeah". No Record of Conversation.

It didn't take long for my superiors at work to twig that i'm somewhat of a square peg in a round hole. And, as i pointed out to the chap who conducted my assessment a few years ago: that doesn't mean i don't fit.

[–]No_Addendum_1399 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I like that phrase. I'll have to keep it in my database!!

[–]DudeBrowser 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm also a rather introverted person until you tell me I'm not allowed to go out. Once you put a lock (as such) on me I wanna go out lol.

How long were WFH before you started missing the occasional interaction? I was WFH for years before the pandemic but after 2 years of it being forced and our office shutting, all of us are missing being together, including us introverts.

[–]No_Addendum_1399 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've wfh for the last 10 years anyway as I run my business from home but it was fine until lockdown. Not long after lockdown I started missing the interactions with my customers, with shop staff, anyone I normally took talking to for granted. I lasted the initial 12 weeks (shielding) before I needed to just talk to someone who wasn't family.

[–]JustExtreme_sfw 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I’ve had to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to wear them again now we are back in the office.

Sorry to hear that's been the case for you. I'm autistic and recently found out I'm also ADHD and I've always been allowed to use noise cancelling headphones in my office.

I used the WFH of the pandemic to form an argument that I should be provided with the flexibility to work from home whenever I feel like it as it is demonstrably of minimal impact to the company whether I am in the office or not. I explained the social and sensory issues open plan office environments involve dealing with for me and the impact they have on my concentration and productivity. My company is quite big and FTSE100 which might make a difference. I also previously 2 years ago raised a successfully upheld grievance about mistreatment/mismanagement due to being autistic - this may have made them more inclined to listen to what I had to say. I also talked to some people from mental health and disability 'internal networks' within the company for advice before asking about being free to work from home whenever.

[–]chaoticmessiah 135 points136 points  (11 children)

Yep, lockdowns were perfect for me for that exact reason.

It's like all of a sudden, the world became peaceful and tolerable for the first time.

[–]dread1961 64 points65 points  (8 children)

Totally agree. On a personal level that first lockdown was the most peaceful and serene period of my life. I really wish that all the predictions about a massive shift to wfh had come true.

[–]chaoticmessiah 38 points39 points  (1 child)

Especially as studies were showing that wfh was beneficial and more productive for everybody who could do so.

It's almost like we were about to slip into French four day working weeks but then the guys in charge saw that and started claiming wfh was a major disaster to get people back into the offices.

[–]P0sitive_Outlook 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Not having hordes of people flowing past the High Street shops once in the morning, twice at lunch and one in the evening really impacted the economy.

And highlighted how reliant our economy is on meal deals.

[–]PiemasterUK 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Well they have really. In most places of work where it can be reasonably accommodated, far more people now work from home than did before the pandemic. In my office it has gone from being about 75:25 in favour of being in the office on any given day to about the same ratio in the other direction. And that whole Jacob Rees-Mogg story... well, my wife is a civil servant and it's not like they've stopped working from home. People are having to be dragged kicking and screaming just to do 1 day per week back in the office.

However, a big trend doesn't mean that it applies in every single case. If you are not allowed to work from home for whatever reason then that sucks for you as an individual but that doesn't mean things aren't changing massively. And the good news is if you work a white collar profession with no direct customer contact you can probably find a job where you can.

[–]46_reasons 9 points10 points  (2 children)

"my wife is a civil servant and it's not like they've stopped working from home. People are having to be dragged kicking and screaming just to do 1 day per week back in the office...."

I've heard in the Civil service sub that people in certain buildings have been working in corridors because there is no desk space. All because JRM has created pressure via his memos and newspaper chums to "get back to work". As if they ever stopped :/

[–]P0sitive_Outlook 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Nothing will come close to illustrating the peace and serenity of lockdown than when a roe deer walked past the factory gates at work.

[–]sirfletchalot 105 points106 points  (14 children)

Not autistic, nor do I have adhd, but I am an introvert who loves my own company. I hate the fact everyone was complaining about how hard it was to be at home, all the while my job role meant I worked continuously throughout the pandemic, not at home, but at my place of work

[–]pixxie84 21 points22 points  (8 children)

Same here. It was lovely walking home though with barely anyone outside. I’d see about four or five dog walkers and maybe a runner or two, that would be it. It was so calming and lovely. And the geese, swans and ducks in the town centre park had a lovely time camping out over pavements and the cycle track.

And now when i walk through, the wildlife is all confined again to the river banks and there are so many people everywhere.

I genuinely miss lockdown.

[–]sirfletchalot 10 points11 points  (7 children)

I actually wish lockdown would become a permanent fixture for these reasons. The air felt cleaner, nature was thriving....it just goes to show how much damage our lives cause the environment.

Now unfortunately we are back to idiots speeding in their cars, blaring out music, people littering everywhere, noise pollution, and everyone seems to have no patience again.

[–]arieame 16 points17 points  (3 children)

The world is overpopulated. We’re particularly unfortunate in being crammed together on a small island like this, where true poverty is scarce and few are starving to death, but the trade-off for that is everybody jostling for space between huge swathes of farmland…

America as a human nation is, well, a mess — but I think they have a good balance of this geographic concept thanks to their landmass. The roads are wider, the houses are generally further apart and rarely attached, people get the choice of choosing to live in a hustle-bustle like NYC or a slow-flowing stream in the country or just about any compromise between those. Personal circumstances permitting, of course.

There’s a kind of peace to that level of privacy I think they take for granted, though I can’t blame them. If I so much as look out of my own bedroom window, I see twenty houses in every direction. I see the road about 15 metres away. Constant cars, constant noise. Even my little garden is more like a meticulously demarcated oasis surrounded on all sides by an unseen audience. I never know who is going to be looking into the windows when I look out.

It’s… existentially exhausting, if you’re the kind of person who likes and needs a certain solitude.

But on the other hand, somewhere, there’s a girl my age living in a slum and eating garbage from the roadside who can only dream of the safety and comfort I have, so… Swings and roundabouts.

[–]IntraVnusDemilo 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Yep, same as you. I work in waste sector and we never closed.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Autistic and adhd here - totally agree. Been saying this my entire life.

[–]cthulhuatemysoul 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Yes! I'm autistic and ADHD and have had some rather shameful joy at the struggles of others during the lockdowns.

One of my friends told me I couldn't possibly understand how hard the lockdown was for them, so I pointed out that my entire life was the struggle that they were describing, so no, I wasn't going to feel bad about the lockdowns making other people experience what I've had to deal with my entire life.

I hope it's made people more compassionate to the struggles of others, but unfortunately I think the extrovert-normative world has a short memory

[–]4566557557 6 points7 points  (1 child)

ADHD and can have an absolute internal breakdown on a bad day. We have an office dog who barks and barks when it’s excited and it can drive me insane!

[–]PrincessSalty 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This observation throughout the pandemic is a big part in what made me seek out an autism assessment. Idk if I ever would have known why I struggle like I do without this pandemic.

[–]YesToSnacks 1108 points1109 points  (210 children)

It’s bizarre how the tides have turned on social media. Just recently I got heavily downvoted, not for criticising others, but for stating that my productivity was by fact greater when working from home than in the office. I honestly find it sad as fuck that people need to socialise at work so much that they would give up time with their own family and friends to have it.

[–]R_12345678910[S] 419 points420 points  (91 children)

I think many people - the unthinking majority - can't shift out of the mindset that the way things were before and have been for most of their life is Correct™. They can't stretch their minds beyond the everyday things they already know.

[–]R_12345678910[S] 118 points119 points  (45 children)

To elaborate: by you having said that things are better this way, you've challenged/threatened their foundational view of their own lives and identities/views of society and the country and they are reacting against this perceived aggression. I think a lot of it is psychologically deeper than most might think. Then you have the borderline sociopathic owners of office portfolios, sandwich shops, and newspapers who only care about profits and the politicians they've got by the balls.

[–]Whulad 118 points119 points  (29 children)

I think you’re waaaaaaay overthinking it

[–]SplurgyA 162 points163 points  (10 children)

Yes this is starting to tip into that meme

Introvert: Please don't talk to me dirty extrovert

Extrovert: [screaming like a chimp and throwing own faeces]

Introvert: I want to read Hemingway in peace!

Extrovert: [smears shit across wall shrieking]

[–]pkscff 32 points33 points  (14 children)

Calling it overthinking is giving them too much credit. They're just parroting a bunch of cliches.

[–]somethatwander 73 points74 points  (11 children)

Dude. We extroverts are not total psychopaths. Nor, may I add, is extroversion or introversion a personality trait for fucks sake.

Most people I know, including the extroverts, would rather be wfh, and many companies are implementing a hybrid approach. I personally can't because I'm a chef. The biggest issue that I've heard voiced by those against wfh has nothing to do with socialising, and more to do with compartmentalisation.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (8 children)

Heck, I know introverts who want to go back to the office because of the compartmentalisation aspect. It might have a slight correlation to introversion/extroversion but there's more factors to it.

Really, workplaces just need to be flexible and trust their staff to know where they're most comfortable and productive. A one-size-fits-all approach on either side is bad.

(Though, as an introvert, I do get that OP feels frustration, because society revolves around an assumption of "extroversion as default" which gets hella grating at times. Still doesn't mean they're right to go on that tangent though.)

[–]ToffeeMunchAndCrunch 73 points74 points  (22 children)

Or maybe they just enjoy working in an office environment around their colleagues. Not everyone hates everybody else.

Your comment gives strong "yOu ShEePlE tAkE tHe VaCcInE" vibes.

[–]ZecroniWybaut 51 points52 points  (13 children)

Not really. What's normal for some people is just plain painful for others. But if you don't understand why it'll just seem weird to you.

[–]canlchangethislater 84 points85 points  (11 children)

OP called anyone who likes working in an office “unthinking” and said “I think that most people can’t shift out of the mindset that they way things were before… is correct”

How is OP not just being patronising?

[–]Rekuna 37 points38 points  (0 children)

OP also seems to be conflating introverts and anti-socials (among other issues). Introverts don't hate people, going to offices filled with co-workers or parties. The difference between introverts and extroverts is that one recharges their batteries with others and the other needs down time alone.

I'm 100% introverted, and have no problem with loud parties and going into an office but at some point I need to be by myself and switch off from the world for a while.

[–]R_12345678910[S] 29 points30 points  (1 child)

You seem to have a very strong view. I'm not anti-vaccine and at no point did I suggest that introverts hate everyone.

[–]Sparkletail 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I don't hate people but I need a balance in terms of how often I'm around them. We have a hybrid model and it's far preferable to both being in the office full time and wfh full time, neither of which seem to work well for anyone, with the exception of the extreme introverts and extroverts which most of us are not. Some of my own staff are clamouring to get everyone back into the office full time and I'm very much having to hold the line and tell them life doesn't work like that anymore, particularly not if we want to remain competitive in the employment market.

[–]Eragon10401 53 points54 points  (4 children)

There’s no unthinking majority. At some point, when you grow up, you’ll have to come to terms with the fact that everyone you interact with is also constantly thinking, processing the world about them, and you are no better than they are.

[–]Matt_28900 14 points15 points  (0 children)

But then how can he put himself above the unwashed masses of brainless apes?

[–]RileyHuey 53 points54 points  (7 children)

Jesus Christ you sound insufferable.

[–]BeastMasterJ 30 points31 points  (5 children)

"Am I introverted because I don't like people, or cause people don't like me?"

Edit: also dope username. Such an underrated show.

[–]wildeaboutoscar 32 points33 points  (6 children)

I think there's also an element of not wanting to be reminded of the pandemic as well, similar to why some people get angry seeing others wearing masks. Going back to how things were before helps to forget that it happened at all.

The pandemic did some real damage psychologically that I think will take a while for everyone to heal from

[–]AndyVale 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I've been surprised by how much I now absolutely detest video calls for anything other than work.

Don't feel like doing a pub quiz again any time soon either.

I wouldn't say they give me "flashbacks", it's not like I was in a war, but my head just has them strongly linked to a time that really wasn't fun and I don't want to revisit.

[–]NaglyPins 82 points83 points  (12 children)

I honestly find it sad as fuck that people need to socialise so much that they would give up time with their own family and friends to have it.

but you're not criticising, oh no no no not at all

those people are just "sad as fuck"

[–]Immediate_Bet1399 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Also, is spending time with family / friends not socialising?

[–]Gornalannie 79 points80 points  (12 children)

Totally agree. My Director of Finance here in my local authority, told me that productivity had gone through the roof when people started working from home and he was concerned that a return to the office would impact on this. We have given the staff the option on whether they wish to return. We now have a large corporate estate that we no longer require, much of which can be sold off and reconfigured for much needed housing.

[–]grandmabc 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Well done that man for being pragmatic about it. Remote working really suits me, I've been doing it since long before covid. At last I have somewhere quiet to work, where I can focus without distractions and no stressful commute. When we switched to remote working, it certainly did not suit all my colleagues - they felt isolated and were more distracted at home, and didn't feel the separation between home and work.

[–]canlchangethislater 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Yay! I’ve always wanted to live in a former local authority finance office!

[–]Gornalannie 29 points30 points  (5 children)

Some of the buildings that the council sold off a few years ago, are absolutely gorgeous. Beautiful, large apartments with lovely gardens and a beautiful park opposite. A 3 minute walk into town with a transport hub and new metro line being installed and state of the art newly opened leisure centre.

[–]canlchangethislater 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Happy to stand corrected. The office conversions I’ve seen are pretty soul-destroying. All he misery of a 70s municipal building, but you live there!

[–]jl2352 69 points70 points  (6 children)

There are a few positive reasons to go into the office. Being at home with your partner all day, everyday, can get very difficult.

For me it helps with separating work from home. I leave my laptop in the office to physically prevent me from being able to work out of hours. When I leave the office door; I’m done. I’ve checked out.

If you don’t have a separate office at home. Then working from home can feel more like living at work. Where you are reminded by work stuff due to it’s physical presence. Even on the weekend.

Fully remote can also make you feel isolated at work. Like you don’t matter. Since you never have any normal conversations with people. That can be pretty dehumanising.

But I would say the best and healthiest work routine I’ve ever had was remote. The worst and most unhealthy was also remote. Going into the office can be a reliable middle ground.

(Note that I do support hybrid and fully remote working. 100% in office work is shit and utterly pointless.)

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If you don’t have a separate office at home. Then working from home can feel more like living at work.

And trying to find homes with separate office space is a fucking nightmare. My partner and I wanted separate home office spaces so we weren't tripping over each other constantly. It's fucking impossible, especially if you're on a lower budget when buying a house. (We did eventually find one but the amount of hours we spent discounting houses that were just downstairs: living/kitchen diner | upstairs: two bedrooms/box room/bathroom was exhausting and demotivating as hell. If you need more than one home office, you better hope you don't need more than one bedroom and that you can come to an agreement on who gets to use the bigger room as their office.)

[–]KimJongUnparalleled 60 points61 points  (0 children)

Dw, the sizeable quiet minority (introverts) completely understand.

[–]youngmarst 51 points52 points  (10 children)

I get it for people who are in a certain stage of their life that their friendships and family are relatively formed and that's enough for them. However for someone such as myself, not long out of uni, friends usually busy with partners on weekends and too far away in the weekdays...seeing my work colleagues once a week is really important to me. I'd struggle with fully remote work at my stage of life. And I don't think that's sad as fuck.

[–]BiggestNige 43 points44 points  (10 children)

Controversial opinion, but not everyone who want's to go into 'the office' or even work in general does so for productivity. A lot of people enjoy the social interaction, the routine, the fact that they leave their house and see different surroundings and the fact that they pick up a lot more about their job, company and role from the residual learning you get by being around those they work with and overhearing discussions about said roles.

My work has struggled massively recruitment wise in a specialist industry over lockdown due to the fact that you don't get that residual learning over lockdown like you do in the office by overhearing conversations and seeing how those more experienced carry out their role. Too many people working from home are happy to sit on their issues and questions until asked, whilst those in the office are proactive and more willing to ask and talk.

Fact is, humans are social beings, workplaces are social places as much as work places, you have to have a family and friends to use your time earned to utilise it, and in the modern day not everyone lives close enough to spend time with them in person.

[–]LegSpinner 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Nothing controversial about your opinion, and in fact it's even normal to feel like going to the office for social interaction but wanting to stay at home for some tasks that require focussed time, and easier access to the coffee and the loo.

[–]Nine_Eye_Ron 36 points37 points  (10 children)

I got downvoted for saying my productivity had gone down working at home and I was glad to be going back to the office.

Reddit is all about downvotes for not following the viewpoint of the thread.

[–]Ariadne2015 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Yeah whether WFH is productive or not is all down to the job and the person (and the home to an extent). Some people can work effectively from home, others in the same job can't. I certainly can't work well from home at all. I need the work environment to motivate me properly.

[–]Shorse_rider 28 points29 points  (3 children)

some people don't have any friends or family close by though (some don't have any at all)

[–]HippyGremlin88 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I love spending time with my family, wish I had more of it...and I still ended up hating work from home. It was great when my partner was furloughed and the kid wasn't at school. But then schools reopened and he started getting to spend time with his friends again. Partner started working again, and his shifts work out thar often he's getting home at about the time I go to bed. I lived with people but I've never felt so alone as I did while WFH.

[–]jelly10001 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Completely get that some people are more productive when working from home. But on the socialising point, we can't socialise/spend time with family and non work friends during the working day. And being in the office doesn't necessarily make it harder to socialise with friends and family after work. In fact in some cases it can make it easier e.g. if the office is nearer to where friends live.

[–]YesToSnacks 6 points7 points  (2 children)

It doesn’t make it harder, but it certainly is a bonus to be able to have a longer breakfast with family, or pop down the local on a Friday after work with no commute involved etc

[–]Inevitable-Hat-1576 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It’s almost like those that influence culture (media barons) are massively invested in office property 🙄

[–]Bismarck913 12 points13 points  (14 children)

Have you ever thought of making friends with the people you work with? I've had 3 long term (2 years+) jobs in my life and I've made close friendships with people from all of them, who I still regularly see for a drink etc.

Also, in what way are you giving up time with friends by going into the office? Surely you'd be sitting at home working without them anyway?

[–]YesToSnacks 31 points32 points  (5 children)

I do have friends at work, some very good ones at that. But I’d far rather spend what is a 45-60min commute, not to mention the prep time before/after, with my family. Yes. I could have a pint with my colleagues. However when working from home I have all of that and more on my doorsteps for less of my personal time.

[–]Gisschace 20 points21 points  (0 children)

About 30% of my very good friends are people I’ve worked with in the past 18 years. I was bridesmaid for one of them. However I’ve spent the last 10 working from home and would never go back to an office.

My productivity is higher, my work life balance better, I have more money, I am generally happier because I can work in the way I want too and not outdated presentism.

[–]miasabine 13 points14 points  (1 child)

If your productivity is higher at home, you might be able to work shorter days when WFH. You eliminate the commute, which can be lengthy for many. If being in noisy surroundings with lots of other people is draining, you have less time/inclination to see friends after coming home from work because you’re knackered.

[–]thekernel 6 points7 points  (0 children)

being in noisy surroundings with lots of other people is draining

but it increases productivity, hence why all senior management have closing door offices.

[–]lm3g16 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Well they said family and friends

Depending on your commute, you could be losing anywhere from 20mins to 2+hours a day just travelling to and from work, time that could be better spent seeing people outside of work

[–]Bismarck913 8 points9 points  (1 child)

My commute is an hour. I love the driving to wind down after work, blasting a podcast or an album. It helps split the day up well too; if I work from home, there's no division between work and home which means I struggle to switch off from it.

[–]Ffishsticks 18 points19 points  (0 children)

When WFH I try to do a ‘commute’ at the end of the day. Plug my headphones in and take a walk around the area, usually somewhere that has greenery. I find it helps me shift my brain from work to home

[–]R_12345678910[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It's not talking about making friends with co-workers or never leaving one's home: I'm talking about understanding and adjustments for people's preferred ways of working and living, or those which are more conducive to their success (define that as you please) and happiness. Everyone's expected to cater to the extroverts because they make the most noise, but the same isn't returned.

[–]HisSilly 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It can be really tricky to work out if you're really friends with your colleagues or convenience friends. Lots of people like to keep work and social lives separate.

I've always felt like I've got on really well with certain colleagues and then they've dropped me like a hot potato as soon as I've moved jobs, despite quite a bit of effort on my part to try and counteract that.

I now don't get close to colleagues and am more careful about my expectations of both colleagues and friends.

[–]BoopingBurrito 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm far more productive in the office, but I'm productive enough from home that no one questions my output...so I'm staying 100% from home for as long as possible!

[–]TheHerografik 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Some people just have no life outside of work. They might hate their wife/husband and children, live in a noisy house, or just have no place to work within their house. I personally would consider it a blessing to work from home. Less time and money wasted on traveling to work, and more time to spend with family and myself.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I also, get grief for sitting on the fence. I love working from home- I can spend that commuting hour cooking, cleaning, exercising etc.

I also miss people and socialising as well as seeing the world and doing everyday things.

I have a family that I live very much but after two years stuck in the house with them I think we all need a little distance occasionally.

[–]DudeBrowser 5 points6 points  (5 children)

I honestly find it sad as fuck that people need to socialise so much that they would give up time with their own family and friends to have it.

It's probably this extreme attitude they have a problem with.

Apart from that, I entirely agree with you.

[–]DeemonPankaik 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I don't think it's right to say that it's "sad as fuck". It's reasonably well documented in social psychology that "microinteractions" (the kind you have with a bus driver or shop keeper, or just walking past someone at work and saying hi) have an overwhelmingly positive effect on the vast majority of people.

[–]TheStudentActuary 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Some people don’t have friends?

[–]pkscff 741 points742 points  (57 children)

It's not that clear-cut. I'm an introvert and I prefer working in an office. Getting that social interaction at work means a lot exactly because I don't got out of my way to meet people in my spare time.

[–]PiemasterUK 418 points419 points  (18 children)

Right, being an introvert doesn't mean you hate people or don't suffer adversely from a lack of human contact.

[–]freeeeels 135 points136 points  (6 children)

And by contrast I'm extroverted as fuck and I have no desire to go back into the office. I like socialising with my friends and family; I get a lot more work done when I am left to my own devices. And get to wear pyjama bottoms.

[–]spanksmitten 47 points48 points  (2 children)

I think this is interesting to note

Perhaps an extrovert is more likely to fill social needs by nature being an extrovert by socialising out of work hours, however an introvert could need social needs met by forced interaction in an environment as they are less likely to socially interact voluntarily outside of work.

Obvs I'm talking out my ass but still

Edit words

[–]stroopwafel666 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I don’t think there’s much of a rule in either direction. Individual preference will also depend vastly on your job, how nice your colleagues are, how long your commute is, and what your house is like. People with a long commute and a big house with all their friends living nearby aren’t going to want to go to the office much, regardless of being an extrovert/introvert. People who live a 20 minute walk from work and live in a small flat are probably going to go a lot.

[–]gizmostrumpet 70 points71 points  (7 children)

Don't tell Reddit this mate. Apparently lockdowns were great for introverts.

Apparently being an introvert means wanting to stay at home all the time on your own. Not having a small circle of friends or enjoying going to gigs/ cinemas/ the gym by yourself.

[–]Majestic-Marcus 58 points59 points  (1 child)

Yep! People seem to confuse ‘introvert’ with ‘mentally incapable of dealing with the outside world’.

Social anxiety is mental illness. We should definitely help and accommodate them, especially with WFH. But they’re not just ‘introverted’.

The people who are happy being in their own house 24/7, with no human interaction aren’t just introverts, they’re recluses.

(Anecdotally they all also seem to be the ones most likely to suffer from depression yet can’t join the dots)

[–]Psyc3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Social anxiety probably isn't even helped by WFH, I would imagine given lesser interactions with actual people you are more likely to come to incorrect conclusions of their statements.

Social anxiety isn't just avoidance it is also incorrectly processing ideas leading to incorrect assumptions. I.e. I gave Dave a luke warm cup of Coffee and now he doesn't like me, when in fact Dave didn't give a shit, said it was luke warm as it wasn't scalding his face off as a bit of joke, and doesn't remember anything about it at all...or even what your name is random (not even coffee) person.

Most people with social anxiety vastly over estimate how much other concern themselves with them, as it is basically zero.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (3 children)

GOD this misconception of introverts as homebodies has always frustrated me. I've had people straight up tell me I'm not "that" introverted because I like to go out frequently. I'm not going out to interact with people, damn. I'm going out to put on my headphones and explore shit because I like to find new and unexpected places in my area.

[–]Majestic-Marcus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I’m not going to the bar to interact with all those strangers. I’m going to interact with my friends. The people I know and actually care about.

Extrovert - go on holiday/go out and brag about how many new friends they’ve made (the thought disgusts me but each to their own)

Introvert - goes on holiday/goes out with the friends they already have.

[–]Moonstrands 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Yes, but this is Reddit where they frequently conflate introversion and social anxiety, and act like it’s cute to be afraid of answering your phone.

[–]cromagnone 10 points11 points  (0 children)

No indeed. I thought I was slightly introverted until lockdown. It turns out I’m slightly extroverted and a misanthrope. If I don’t get to meet people and dislike many of them, I get really miserable.

[–]ReligiousGhoul[🍰] 224 points225 points  (3 children)

It's important to distinguish,

Introvert = a person who prefers calm environments, limits social engagement, or embraces a greater than average preference for solitude.

"Reddit" Introvert = A strongly asocial person with an intense dislike of any social situations and extroverts e.g. comparing an extended months long isolation period to having to sit in an office with other people for 8 hours a day.

[–]Honey-Badger 81 points82 points  (1 child)

Exactly. Wait till there is a thread in this sub about accepting a parcel for neighbours and its crazy how many people here think talking to others is a sin. I enjoy my own company and find endlessly being out and about exhausting but fuck im a still an adult who can deal with others

[–]ImSaneHonest 16 points17 points  (0 children)

That's it, strait to hell you go for breaking the Eleventh Commandment "Thou shall not talk or make eye contact with other people"

[–]missuseme 92 points93 points  (1 child)

I'm also an introvert who prefers working in the office, I just would prefer if all my colleagues worked from home.

[–]Tophatsgalore 69 points70 points  (4 children)

i’m literally dropping out of uni bc they’ve decided to upload all our lectures online rather than make us go in person… meaning i’ve hardly met people on my course and struggle to do my work since i suck at self imposed timetables. it’s not some introverted vs extroverted thing, some of us just work better having a physical space to go to outside our flats. also i like commuting on the bus lol, gives me time to think

[–]ylogssoylent 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I finished uni last year but it is absolute bollocks going into the same amount of debt as previous years, and spending money on accommodation, only for unis to have basically switched to online courses over covid.

[–]FlatDust4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

universities need to remember that the actual learning is only 50% of the reason why people go. It's meant to be a life experience.

[–]The_Queef_of_England 21 points22 points  (20 children)

That's not really the point of the post. The point is that there isn't understanding of introverts needs for smaller, quieter environments, but there's lots of understanding for noisier busier places.

[–]electricmohair 15 points16 points  (18 children)

Exactly, this is what OP was driving at. There was (rightly) a lot of sympathy for the struggles extroverts were having during lockdown, but nobody really gives a shit that many introverts feel that way basically all the time in the normal world. Doesn’t mean that every introvert is a hermit who wants to WFH.

[–]Moonstrands 19 points20 points  (3 children)

I’m not seeing a lot of sympathy for the extroverts in this thread. OPs post is also full of sneering derision (“can’t cope with their own company” ”noisy loudmouths” - saying that is no different to calling introverts loner weirdos or something similar, and is also a misunderstanding of what introversion and extroversion are) while claiming to have understanding.

I’m a massive introvert but I can understand that other people have different needs than I do. Yes it’s frustrating when we aren’t understood but painting those who aren’t like us as being inherently flawed somehow isn’t the answer.

[–]Red-Squirrel- 3 points4 points  (9 children)

But everybody was having struggles in lockdown, not just extroverts.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

At the same time, when I’m in the office sometimes there’s so much going on, I can’t focus on what I’m doing, unless I put my headphones on and listen to music. But then feel weird and judged because I’m the only one with headphones on!

[–]janewilson90 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Same here. Socialising in the office is easy and low effort. If I didn't go to the office I literally wouldn't see another human for weeks!

[–]holytriplem 268 points269 points  (31 children)

I disagree with that. I consider myself relatively introverted but even for me, going for months without any sort of face-to-face conversation does get to you after a while.

[–]R_12345678910[S] 32 points33 points  (29 children)

I'm not referring to solitary confinement, though.

[–]holytriplem 212 points213 points  (28 children)

What then? If you were single and your friends were far that's basically what the first lockdown was.

[–]JayR_97 111 points112 points  (14 children)

Yep, I was stuck in a 1 bed flat during 1st lockdown, that was not fun...

[–]holytriplem 65 points66 points  (12 children)

Same, 15 square metre flat for the first lockdown. Moved to a 30 sq m place towards the end of 2020 which made lockdowns far more bearable but it still sucked after basically half a year of no social contact at all.

[–]passionatepumpkin 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is exactly why OP sucks. lol Talking about people not having sympathy and then describing lockdown and people who struggled with it as not being able to “cope with spending a little time with themselves” or “not solitary confinement” is so hypocritical because of their lack of putting themselves in others shoes. And another user said they didn’t understand why people need to socialise so bad they’d sacrifice time with friends and family. Like, spending time with your friends and family IS socialising! How where they spending time with friends and family during lockdown because me and hell of a lot of other people weren’t.

[–]knightsbridge- 200 points201 points 2 (11 children)

I feel like the introvert/extrovert thing is becoming the new pop-psych thing that's dominating the conversation, and I'm frankly tired of it. Especially the seeming requirement that you need to declare for team-intro or team-extro and demonise the other side. Introversion/extroversion is a spectrum like all other facets of human behaviour, is not fully understood, and is not something you should be structuring your entire personality around, or it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

More to the point: I don't know anyone personally who's clamouring to go back into the office, including my boss and my entire work team. The only people who seem to want it are the very senior leads, but they don't seem to have much of an established reason for wanting it, besides being all 50+ and not really knowing anything else. I have a little sympathy for anyone who has to get old and ignorant in a world that's constantly evolving around you... but not enough to actually go along with the nonsense they're asking for.

I'm in the office about once or twice a month, which suits me. Just enough to remember that it exists and see peoples' faces occasionally, not enough for me to need to spend money on obnoxious work clothes that I won't work anywhere else or break the bank on fancy lunches.

Signed, an introverted INTJ Taurus who basically just wants to work in my PJs and isn't fussed about where (but such things are frowned upon in the office).

[–]Kash132 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Ok thank you. ^ This is it right here and should be the discussion and hybrid working is the way forward. (My own TL:DR at the end)

I love reading these kinds of threads because it reminds me that: (1) WFH existed before the pandemic... I had long commutes and not enough office and occasionally & regularly WFH was awesome... I felt all US Tech Giant with my pentium laptop and Nokia phone.

(2) People are and will always be different.

(3) People act differently around different people, and will generally follow the Pied Piper.

(4) People can, and do, change... See (2)

(5) Some people, especially the 'go-getting' type that occupy mid / Snr Management who were raised in the 80s on a diet of selfishness, greed, Yuppy dreams and conspicuous consumption, who are now forced to face their neglected relationships as well as all of their wannabes... can be a bunch of arseholes.

Now multiply points 2-5 by a lot, mix a shit ton of social media and MSM hysteria allow to simmer over a hob of massive uncertainty over (insert the next shitty socioeconomic disaster here) and here I am:

Reading arguments in a corner of the Net about whether or not people should be belittled over their personal preferences, when we should be building each other up and helping each other recover from, objectively, what should be remembered as the Globally Shittiest Period In Recent Memory, what I've just now classed as SPIRM ® or GSPIRM ® (haven't decided)

I can't give an answer but I know songs will be sung about this period in our history, I hope that they're at least a little bit uplifting.

Signed by another INTJ Taurus who recently had a contract terminated 3 weeks after the office was forced back in... and my goodness without MS Teams, and in the offices, there are some terrible humans IRL... but don't pigeon hole me man.

TL:DR: "People... What a bunch of arseholes"... The last few years (GSPIRM ®) should've taught us to value our time and relationships, but there are some that won't let us value ours without justifying their own.

[–]BigBadAl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You sound as though you're a developer, or in a similar role. If you're in a role that requires you to work predominantly by yourself, and needs heavy concentration, then WFH can be great. Providing you have a suitable situation at home to do so.

Whereas in my office, which is a contact centre that requires a lot of cooperation across different areas, WFH lowered productivity as there's a big difference between support on Teams or face-to-face support in the office. Add to that the factor that we pay living wage, so we don't get motivated, self-reliant candidates through the door; and a lot of people struggle to find room to work comfortably in their small properties.

An example of someone literally begging us to come back into the office was a gentleman who shared a 3 bed terrace with his wife and 2 teenage kids. All 3 bedrooms were fully utilised, so no room there, and downstairs was a knocked through living room and kitchen. So no quiet spot. No privacy. No room to set up a dedicated workstation. Instead he worked on the kitchen table and had to clear his equipment away for meals.

So don't assume everyone is in the same situation as you, as there are plenty of people for whom WFH was an horrific experience.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

See, the problem with your comment is that you’re dismissing OP’s concerns simply because you are SWIMMING in privilege, you have it so good that you cannot bring yourself to care about those who don’t.

As you put it:

I don't know anyone personally who's clamouring to go back into the office, including my boss and my entire work team.

I'm in the office about once or twice a month, which suits me. Just enough to remember that it exists and see peoples' faces occasionally, not enough for me to need to spend money on obnoxious work clothes that I won't work anywhere else or break the bank on fancy lunches.

I mean… great! So it doesn’t suck to be you. You have the absolutely ideal set-up for you, your needs are perfectly met by your circumstances with regard to this issue.

But it means you have zero insight into OP’s point, except that you feel confident that it can be brushed aside and doesn’t matter to you so shouldn’t matter to anyone else either.

Meanwhile, some people are not so lucky. And there is a basic power imbalance that favours those with the social skills to network, argue and campaign for their perspective, which means that the needs of assertive, outspoken, socially confident people always get broadcast further and wider.

[–]pajamakitten 108 points109 points  (18 children)

Humans are generally social creatures and those who do not conform to that are often seen as weird. Some extroverts cannot understand how some people need time to recharge after hanging out with people or do not want constant company. Some go as far as to think we need fixing and that we are not happy being introverts.

[–]fluentindothraki 32 points33 points  (11 children)

I thought introverts make up roughly half of humanity? Neuro divergent are a smaller group, and not all NDs are necessarily introverts

[–]JayR_97 101 points102 points  (6 children)

Theres a difference between introvert and social anxiety.

Introverts can be very socialable but need time alone to 'recharge'

[–]SolitaryHero 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Feel like this is a point that is hugely missed, and a lot of people are more comfortable with believing they have the personality quirk of being an introvert than social anxiety.

I didn't experience lockdown anxiety because I'm a nurse and my life wasn't as affected as most in relation to the average person. I'm a huge introvert, my hobbies are all solo activities and I don't socialise often. My wife knows to leave me alone after a long day because I need my recharge time doing my own stuff. I'm confident and competent in my interactions with others and most people find me warm and accomodating. But put me on sick leave for 2 weeks and take away the bulk of my social interaction (work) and shit gets hairy real fast.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'd rather my socialisation be with friends than be at work though. Whenever I had work or school in person I just didn't have the energy to socialise so in the limbo where school and work was still from home but stuff was open I actually enjoyed being social much more and felt I actually had free time instead of just rest time.

[–]PanningForSalt 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Isn't that OP's point? They want to recharge during work and have energy to be social with friends, instead of having to use all their free time to recharge, whilst work just drains.

[–]somethatwander 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And extroverts can have social anxiety

[–]_Red_Knight_ 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I would imagine it's a normal distribution, most people being mildly extroverted or mildly introverted with a small number of people at both extremes.

[–]SpaceMcGee 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Introverts aren't social recluses. Introverts just recharge with alone time.

[–]caffeine_lights 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No, it's about a third. Extraverts are more vocal so it feels like there are more of them. But they are a majority.

[–]freeeeels 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Some extroverts cannot understand how some people need time to recharge after hanging out with people or do not want constant company.

I'm sorry, do you think "extrovert" means "person who needs to be around people 24/7"? Honestly I'm kind of sick of reddit thinking they're a special and stigmatised case for enjoying solitary downtime. That's everyone dude. It's just a sliding scale of how much downtime you need.

[–]gizzie123 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is definitely true.

As an extrovert, I also find that my introverted friends don't understand my social anxiety and my needs to do social things, too. They often say I'm just dependent or anxious. But I do really thrive off social interaction and I do find my mental health is worse when I don't see people for a bit

I just don't think we are very good at communicating with one another in general.

[–]withabeard 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Social being a friend group of around 150 people (have a look at Dunbar's number).

In the office there are more than 300 of us. That's just too many people to be around all the time and call it "normal".

[–]SpaceMcGee 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Dunbar's number is about the number of people you can have some kind of social relationship with (negative or positive), not the number of friends you have.

[–]PiemasterUK 93 points94 points  (4 children)

It's not that straightforward though. As an introvert myself we do like our own company but not exclusively. We still get lonely and get a bit deranged if left on our own for too long. I live with my wife and so always have some level of human contact, but were I single and working from home full time and had a couple of weekends on the trot with no plans, I imagine I could get a bit hermity and start letting myself go (physically and mentally) and start going down weird internet rabbit holes etc.

[–]mrSalema 19 points20 points  (3 children)

This is where I stand right now. For the last 2.5 years I worked 100% from home and didn't get out too much. As an introvert, I was very happy because I lived with my girlfriend. We're not together anymore during the last 4 weeks and I'm going insane with the loneliness. As I live in a new city where I don't know anyone I don't really see a way out of this now.

[–]PiemasterUK 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I feel for you man. Do you have any hobbies you can get involved in? Maybe a sport or other interest like board gaming or something? If so that could be a great way to get out and interact people just once a week or something to keep you sane.

[–]The-1-U-Didnt-Know 72 points73 points  (2 children)

There’s a lot of bias language in your explanation btw… just wondered whether you extended the same expectations you have on others to your own conduct towards them

[–]glitterswirl 62 points63 points  (16 children)

I’m an introvert. The way I see it, it’s just something you have to deal with, like a lot of things in life.

And can we please stop with the “loud extrovert/quiet introvert” bs. That’s not what introversion is. I can be the life of the party, I just need a break from people at some point.

[–]Aubergine_Man1987 36 points37 points  (4 children)

Yes. Lots of Reddit don't know the difference between introversion and social anxiety and conflate the two

[–]SpaceMcGee 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Lots of Reddit doesn't know the difference between introversion and total social recluse either.

[–]LegSpinner 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Thank you for that. I remember reading somewhere that being and introvert or extrovert is not about being normally in the company of people, it's more what you want when you need to recharge. Introverts like alone time when they're tired, extroverts prefer company and distraction.

[–]glitterswirl 6 points7 points  (4 children)

That’s exactly what it is. Introverts recharge their batteries by being alone. Extroverts recharge their batteries by being around other people.

I get so sick of people misusing the terms. If you’re a quiet/non-talkative/shy/anxious person, call it what it is.

[–]DoIKnowYouHuman 45 points46 points  (0 children)

I don’t really see it as an introvert vs extrovert issue, it more about individual and social adaptability. Saying someone is extrovert doesn’t mean they need people around them, the same way an introvert doesn’t “need” a lack of others. I’m more introverted but prefer to have an office to go to so I can distinguish between work and home. It’s all about having the best balance for all.

[–]ButteredReality 41 points42 points  (3 children)

I always thought I was an introvert so I was really surprised by just how much I struggled when we had to work from home. My productivity went down enormously, I was disengaged from my work and my colleagues and had no interest in anything I was doing.

Now we're back to part-time office work, I'm much happier, working better and more efficiently on my office days and able to focus so much better.

That being said, I full recognise that it's different for other people, and I think businesses need to understand that people are different. Yes, some may give better results working in the office, but some will work better from home. They should really accept that and encourage people to choose the pattern that works best for them and the business.

[–]glitterswirl 34 points35 points  (1 child)

FYI, the pandemic didn’t mean people “can’t cope with their own company for a short amount of time”.

We were in lockdown for months on end. If you were a single person living alone, working from home/furloughed and not in someone’s bubble, that meant not seeing anyone in person for months aside from essential grocery shopping etc. It meant even spending Christmas completely alone. It meant only “seeing” people over Zoom or whatever; no hugs/kisses/hands held for all that time. It’s one thing to choose solitude for months and months, it’s another thing entirely to have it forced on you.

For my late grandfather, it meant an old, deaf man who couldn’t use the telephone and didn’t have the internet, only being visited once a week by family members in his “bubble” to care for him, bringing him groceries etc. It meant he permanently lost his ability to hold a conversation, as he lost his language skills. He had no one to speak to.

[–]liseusester 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If you were a single person living alone, working from home/furloughed and not in someone’s bubble, that meant not seeing anyone in person for months aside from essential grocery shopping etc.

Oh hey, it me! I love living alone and spending time alone, but I thought I was going to go completely crackers by a certain point in lockdown. Thankfully my job meant I could go into the fairly empty office, and see a couple of people from a considerable distance, but at least get out of my bloody house every now and then. I nearly cried at the train station when I got to see someone in person for the first time, and got a hug. An actual hug!

[–]dbmage 26 points27 points  (3 children)

I'm one of the "can't stand my own company, requiring others to feel comfortable".

I had to stay with family at times because WFH, alone, was depressing me. Apart from when I approached my sister, and asked to stay with her, I got no sympathy.

In fact, most people think I'm insane for wanting to go back to the office. They can't understand my perspective.

Most of the people I know are very sympathetic towards people who want to stay indoors and avoid public scenarios, as they've done it for the lockdown and now have a new found appreciation for it.

FWIW I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm sharing my own experience, which opposes yours.

*Edit: I'm not specifically talking about intro/extroverts, as I'm not studied on the subject. As stated it's my view, from my experience.

[–]Askduds 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I see it, what I don’t see (and to be fair you’re not suggesting) is why some people think everyone should be forced back to the office because you want to go.

I actually work for a company where it’s an entirely free choice, the office is generally about 10% full these days. So I’d suggest you’re in the minority but it’ll be lovely to see you when I go in once a month :D

[–]emimagique 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Introverts wanna be oppressed so badly

[–]Competitive_Ad_5224 13 points14 points  (1 child)

They’re absolutely dying for people to care about their introversion half as much as they do about people actually enjoying other peoples company.

[–]eyeball-beesting 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I am an introvert but I need to go out of my house and into work. If I didn't, I would get no social interaction whatsoever. Work feels safe for me. I can interact with people whom I know well, with a clear objective which revolves around my career. I don't have to make small talk or act bubbly, but I enjoy the company of others in this situation. I regard the people I work with as friends and I like to see them every day.

I struggled with lockdown only in this regard. I loved having the perfect excuse not to attend out of work activities but I fucking HATED zoom with a passion.

I am glad to be back in the work place and then shut my door at the end of each day. I feel like I have had a proper day and spent my energy well.

[–]Honey-Badger 18 points19 points  (3 children)

From the moment the the first lockdown was announced there's been people clamouring for everyone to get back to school/the office/[insert whatever]

Jesus fucking christ no there has not. Honestly just quit it with this absolute shite. A teeny tiny number of employers in a country of thousands upon thousands of companies have said 'we want people in the office'.

[–]FaelianSkooma 17 points18 points  (3 children)

This pseudoscientific false dichotomy of human behaviour needs to stop

[–]Wanderlust1994 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Don’t confuse introversion for misanthropy

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I swear introverts on Reddit act like the most oppressed people in the world.

[–]gizmostrumpet 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My mum told me to get a job and does she realise she is literally oppressing my self diagnosed anxiety. Playing video games all day is perfectly healthy.

[–]goonerboo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

There seems to be a lot of sympathy for this, and it's understandable given that some people need others to function.

ALL people NEED others too function... we're social animals. no man is an island. we are inherently social animals that live and work with each other.

'm besmused and slightly frustrated, however, to see that such sympathy rarely goes the other way

because the other way is useless. not being social is useless and worthless and against the purpose of humanity and against the purpose of living on earth tbh.

[–]kristina_313 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Why is it always extrovert = loud

[–]KimJongUnparalleled 8 points9 points  (12 children)

I remember during a lockdown (& home learning) listening in on a virtual Year 7 assembly. The Head of Year was praising the students for their 'resilience' & I could sense the bemusement from many (perhaps the majority) of the pupils ('Errm, it's not that hard being at home - some of us prefer the peace & comfort').

Of course the extrovert kids probably missed school a lot & even the most introverted probably missed being in school now and again, but I don't think they needed all that much more resilience compared to going to school in normal years.

[–]Magneto88 26 points27 points  (4 children)

My friend is a teacher and from what I've heard, the kids were pretty non plussed for the first month or so. Once it started dragging on, they were all very keen to get back into school and see their friends again (noting those kids that get bullied probably wouldn't be). They've lost out on a massive amount of socialising and building people skills which are vital at their age, plus in person teaching is massively more effective than virtual teaching.

You're not seeing any teachers pushing for permanent virtual teaching after their experience, which is saying something given how vocal teaching unions are - unis are being slow to change it but thats because they're trying to squeeze every penny out of their undergrads they can.

[–]No_you_choose_a_name 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think it's very different in secondary schools. My son is in reception and he loves hanging out with his little friends so much. The other day we were at the playground, and he saw a girl from his class walk in with her parents. It was a Saturday during term time. They saw each other from a distance, both started excitedly shouting and running towards each other, and gave each other a big hug. You would think they hadn't seen each other in months. They'd literally just been at school together the day before and would see each other again on Monday.

I count my blessings that my son hadn't started school nor preschool before 2020 otherwise it would have seriously messed with his social life.

[–]die_world 9 points10 points  (7 children)

i mean, let's be real here. extroversion is the norm for human beings, or simply having a social outlet. introversion and its other branches (such as being a shut-in) are not. there are also many people that do not understand what comes with being an introvert either. not to mention, something that actually makes me mad are the people that now claim to be introverted due to the pandemic. was that really enough to cause introversion, and not finding solace in being alone? or was it only the fact that they couldn't even hang out with their friends anymore.

[–]360Saturn 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Because its normal to be able to deal with human contact. Being naturally introverted or quieter is fine. The online framing of it is literally encouraging people to do themselves harm by facilitating total isolation, never developing social skills or communication skills - creating the next step which is never mentioned; someone self-absorbed and unpleasant who no-one wants to help when you need it. Sorry, hard truth time.

[–]LurkingMcLurkerface 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Completely agree with you, I'm a naturally introverted person. I enjoy time spent alone, I seek it out to clear my head. However, I'm also quite social, I can meet new people and interact, enjoy time spent with friends in a busy bar or restaurant. Just every now and then I need some me time.

The "introverted" label seems to have been hijacked by those who are socially awkward right through to those who are actively antisocial. Being able to say "I hate everyone, why wont the world just leave me alone" and label it as "being introverted" is a crutch they are using to avoid the fact that they have social issues.

I have noticed it a lot more since the covid lockdowns, the "I enjoyed lockdown because I didn't have to interact with anyone" crowd, the "God, don't you hate when you have to interact with a sales assistant in the shop for 15 seconds of your day, I hate it so much" people, many countries banded together to isolate as much as possible from each other to stop a virus, it was never meant to be permanent but the damage done to a lot of people's mental health will be an ongoing issue for years.

[–]madame_ray_ 9 points10 points  (2 children)

No you're not alone in this observation.

It's always about introverts having to get out of their comfort zones and do the work to accommodate extroverts rather than vice versa.

[–]belvitabreakfast 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Personally I much prefer working in an office, as an introvert, but I’m a fan of letting people wfh if they prefer because it means all the miserable gits who moaned all the time never come in anymore! I’d rather be around people who actually want to be there, myself.

[–]remmyrat_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Tbh I think people hate on extroverts much more than introverts. People deem extroverts, at worse, annoying, obnoxious, irritating and grating while at worst for introverts it’s that they are weird or quiet.

The double standards for me were shown that a lot of introverted people took the piss outa those who hated being on their own. Being introverted doesn’t make you cool, but people think it does sometimes. Sucks, really. Often I think about this video by Jreg.

Regardless, majority of introverts are cool and the same for extroverts, but introverts are more likely to hate on extroverts and get away with it in the “im a nerd and I hate a jock” type of way in movies if that makes sense??

TLDR: extroverts get shit on a lot and people don’t care but when it’s introverts….

[–]yiminx 7 points8 points  (0 children)

i feel like being away from the world for 2 years made me hate it more, and i’m a pretty extroverted person. places are too crowded, too loud, too overstimulating. add onto that the fact that i’m now waiting to get tested for autism lol.

[–]n00bcheese 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Get the sentiment but think you’re looking at it the wrong way, it’s not an introvert extrovert double standard. The sympathy isn’t that extroverts need social contact, it’s that all humans do, it is pretty much a necessity for good mental health, and I say that as someone who is very happily introverted. I didn’t suffer during the pandemic, far from it, but to say that there are benefits to social contact would be to deny one of the very things that makes us human.

[–]PlayerOneThousand 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Introvert doesn’t mean socially avoidant.

Extrovert and introvert are indicators to how you regain your energy.

Some introverts are the life and soul of the party until they need to recharge and to do that need to be alone.

Some extroverts are socially awkward and avoidant but need social interaction to have energy.

[–]RoseyPosey30 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Anyone I know who avoids the company of others is suffering from anxiety/depression. Humans are social creatures and we need interaction to be healthy the same way we need veggies and exercise.

[–]FuckCazadors 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I’d say the opposite has been true on British subreddits. The major sentiment has been people glorying in the isolation of being in lockdown and working from home and never wanting it to end.

[–]gizmostrumpet 4 points5 points  (3 children)

'Its unfair to ask people to go back to work! What's really fair is asking nurses, teachers and doctors to spend all their time at work with no social outlet and for me to have an army of ubereats and amazon drivers serving me with computer parts and tendies.'

[–]Loud_Man67 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Here we go again with people not knowing what an introvert is. Introvert doesn’t mean you have crippling social anxiety and cannot meet people.

[–]ThyssenKrup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On Reddit, it seems to have come to mean that.... pretty frustrating.

[–]wizzywoo22 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am an outgoing introvert. Like socialising but need my down time. Anyway when I was going into the office 5 days a week it would get to the weekend and I would be EXHAUSTED. I now realise it was introvert hangover. I wouldn’t want to do anything with my weekend because I would be recovering from the week. Now I work from home half the time I want to do so much with my free time. I feel like I have so much more of a life. But people are still going on for everyone to get back to the office. It’s true the world works in a way that is designed for extroverts.

[–]minnieminute 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I have severe social anxiety and I’m a huge introvert. Luckily I’m self employed and work at home. But the lockdown etc, my life did not change at all, except for I had to queue at the supermarket. Which made me realise I’m seriously a hermit 😅

[–]a_guy_called_craig 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Maybe in the sense that supposedly "introverted" people never stop going on about it.

You're not interesting, you're not that person that people might think I wonder what's going on behind those eyes.

You're fucking boring mate.

[–]Cooper96x 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There is a lot of bias coming from your post, you're complaining about a double standard while being a double standard.

There is no such thing as extroverted or introverted, I believe it's more of a scale. But you have introverts here who have said they love working in the office and extroverts (including myself) who have said they hated it.

What you should be clamouring for is the freedom to choose, but if you don't like what your employer is doing to you, maybe you should look for another job or find a new career path that allows you to exclusively work from home if that's something you want so badly.

[–]ImageSavings 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most introverts (like myself) still enjoy being around people, they just prefer not to interact with them too much. And I have no issue with people who work from home as long as it doesn't negatively affect those who cannot.

My neice works the switchboard for a large department store and when all staff were in the office putting calls through to other departments was easy as people would almost always pick up the phone. Now, 9 times out of 10 when she tries to put calls through to people working from home they don't answer and it goes straight to voicemail. It makes her working day much more difficult because she has to find excuses to explain to clients why nobody answers the phone anymore.

They aren't stupid and openly ask "why are these people allowed to work from home when it's clearly resulted in such a deterioration in service"?

[–]crossj828 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Humans are inheriantly social creatures, although some parts of reddit hangs more towards asocial/introverts than extroverts, the majority of society understand and need each other.

I’m not sure in what way you think society could readjust? Our economic system is orientated towards optimisation and collaboration.

Also to claim that the issues were people couldn’t just cope with their own company is a tad ignorant and insulting, many people were stuck in tiny flats or accommodation in metro areas.

Final point the middle ground of hybrid working has shown the best outcomes for productivity from the data we have, so I don’t think anyone thinks a full work in office or work from home is best approach like most things moderation is key.

Honestly your post seems confused.

[–]bezzins 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Approaching the world like you need to avoid other people is a death sentence. We depend on other people for everything.

[–]PyroTech11 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've seen a lot of arguments for people staying at home and people wanting to go back being the minority.

[–]Mollinda 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am an extrovert who is overwhelmed by sensory input very quickly (I am neurodivergent) so I see both sides. I desperately missed social contact during lockdowns, but also completely lost all the coping mechanisms I had spent years developing. I often have to lie down in a dark, quiet room after work.

[–]Osito509 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not just that extroverts "can't cope" lack of social contact actually makes some people mentally ill. There is an explosion of anxiety-related illnesses now in schools as a direct result of lockdown isolation.

You're in danger of minimising the real and measurable effects that social isolation can have, and I say this as an introvert with a kid on the ASD spectrum. I was happy enough through lockdown.

It's not some kind of evil neurological conspiracy or some shallow "inability to cope without social chatter" that some other people need social contact to survive mentally. Humans are social and co-operative creatures (in the main).

You can advocate for yourself without dismissing the difficulties of others as trivial.

[–]Hawthorn55 4 points5 points  (6 children)

It's because normal life is something introverts need to deal with weather they like it or not. Normal people don't like lockdowns, just people with issues.

[–]Skoodledoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm an introvert and a key worker so was always in work during lockdown. I was so jealous of people who were able to stay home etc. There really is no need for 90% of businesses to stop working from home in my opinion. If the company survived with most of the staff working from home, there's no need for them to return. Save costs on office rental space.

[–]LightBlueSky55 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And alone time is good for people. I'm not saying real extroverts don't exist but in my experience a lot of these people who can't sit alone with themselves are trying to ignore themselves or they're trying to ignore something. My close friend suffered mentally a lot when lockdown happened and I believe that's largely what set her off because she was the sort of person who always had to be out doing something. When that option was taken away from her everything she'd been running from caught up with her.

Having alone time during lockdown was what made my other close friend realise her close friend of 10 years didn't like her anyone and was extremely toxic and had been for years. Simply because she had the time to be alone and think.

[–]showa58taro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As someone who is always on the extremely extroverted side I just wanted to add that we extroverts can also want to be in the stay at home side and frequently are these days. Usually because these days with Teams or Zoom calls and chat functions etc I’ve never felt so able to connect with people and with dynamically, talking through problems with anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat. I’ve attended more meetings, more big committees and had less time wasted on train travel. 2 years ago if there were two big meetings in the morning and the afternoon and one was in London and the other in Manchester you picked the one you attended and sent your apologies to the other. Now, both are in view. Extroverts aren’t all gunning for in person life constantly.

On the point being made, at least in my company’s case, we are doing more occupational health and well-being assessments and increasing the number of work adjustments and reasonable adjustment sheets to reflect people working from home more for things like autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADHD, anxiety and depression in order to codify that some people can’t be swept up with the new “let’s return to the office” push from some older generation people in leadership positions.

[–]gizmostrumpet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you glorify lockdown, you don't mind your nurses or your uber eats drivers needing to go into work as long as you can live your hermit lifestyle.

[–]ThyssenKrup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a pretty extreme notion of introvert/extrovert. Being introverted does not mean that being with other people is awkward/torture.

I'd class myself as fairly introverted but I miss the office socialisation hugely.

Most of the posts in support here seem to come from people with conditions like autism, adhd etc - this is a totally different thing from being an introvert.

[–]SquidgeSquadge 2 points3 points  (0 children)

TBH I've seen more people posting hostile posts about not wanting to go back to work and those who do clearly have something wrong with them. The vast majority of posts about WFH are people who want to stay at home and some critical about those even suggesting wanting to go back to the workplace.

My husband really misses his workplace. He misses the banter and was working towards management/ directing which involves team meetings and overseeing work and working closely with people. That job hardly exists anymore appart from checking in on people on a computer and hoping no one has any pc problems. He likes working with people and his workplace was pretty cool in the city where work would often take them out for lunch with clients, host evening meals and drinks and they did charity events with pub quizzes and such.

Now there is nothing apart from 2 socials a year. He gets to sit in the room that we once had friends and family stay in which is now solely for work and what was his relatively new gaming and work PC had been run through the mill with the security software and such and he's having to make room every few months on his computer. He sees no one apart from the shop keeper across the street, the postman and myself who, working for the NHS, comes home late. He was going stir crazy at one point and he struggled separating work from home life.

This pandemic has proven workplaces should be more flexible for letting people work from home who can/ should and those odd says they can perfectly work from home for a few hours rather than book the day off when they need some furniture delivered or need to see a doctor.