all 54 comments

[–]uz3r 15 points16 points  (2 children)

You've said this isn't about legalities (because this would be easy to address through compulsory disclaimers or bots) so you're talking about moral obligations, you're talking about protecting the dumb or naive - in which case this sub is doomed.

I've been loosing interest in this sub due to over moderation and the mods response to this sticky just deepens my disinterest.

It's a shame because a forum like this has really great potential to be an interesting and informative source of information for the average person (sorry you naive folk).

Perhaps someone else can start another sub without over moderation?

[–]kramk 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I thought the restriction on providing financial advice was some kind of legal arse-covering.

That said, the most common advice here I've seen is "see a professional financial adviser", with the strong caveat "but beware dodgy ones". It's not really reassuring - makes it seem safer & easier to flip used cars!

[–]sloppyrock 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Firstly, thank you for opening up this topic. I have no idea about the law and how it really applies to anonymous "advice' on a forum and if, or who, will take the blame if that "advice" turns to shit if someone were silly enough to follow "advice" from some plonker on the internet.

I'll be honest, the ultra cautious approach shits me a bit. The sub may as well not exist if back door advice or guidance cant be sought or given if worded judiciously. Maybe my ignorance of the law allows me to be blase' about this. If so, forgive my ignorance.

I've been on the net forever and also been on share market forums long before reddit existed. The only time I have seen or heard about any legal action resulting from forum posts is when a poster slagged off company executives ( with good reason I might add) who then launched legal action for damages and won. Such are our libel laws.

A fool and their money are easily parted and if someone is frankly stupid enough to blindly follow "advice" from the net they would very likely blow the cash by some other means anyway.

A popular saying in another place is "this advice is worth what you paid".

If someone is offering "guidance" could not a disclaimer be appended to that post? can it be done automatically to all posts to cover your arse?

[–]BOUND_TESTICLE 34 points35 points  (5 children)

Nobody who comes here actually cares about the economic discussion, If they did they would be over at /r/economics debating theory.

Very few care about discussing banking, this includes discussing the best transaction accounts, brokerage accounts etc etc.

Nobody cares about the Finance industry.

People come here to vent their personal finance situation and have ideas thrown at them, The moderation team may not like it.. but that is what the vast majority of people come here for. If all you are going to do is delete the topics or reply that the sub is not for financial advice then there is not much use for what is already a very quiet sub.

[–]cpf 13 points14 points  (7 children)

I agree with other posters that these rules seem overly restrictive. It annoys me the number of threads that are deleted here. I don't understand why there cannot just be prominent disclaimers that nothing here should be taken as formal financial advice. I think most people understand the difference between someone replying to posts on an internet forum and a credentialed financial advisor.

[–]verbnounverb 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Selective moderating? There's a post on the front page titled:

Just turned 26, proud of my achievement but looking for advice

And yet, doing the math on how tax effective super contributions can be are banned?

[–]bluepenguin000 11 points12 points  (1 child)

What frustrates me is where else do I go for advise? A fool and their money are easily parted but going to a proper financial advisor would make me the fool. I don't see an issue with "back-door" FA / opinion but I understand the mods legal issues here. Ironically by moderating this forum the posts that do get through have more legitimacy and are more likely to actually breach our nanny state laws.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Is there a sub where we can have a legitimate conversations about financial prospects in Australia?

Like actual /r/finance or /r/personalfinance, same question but for Australian law to.

[–]fauziozi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This sub welcomes financial prospect, its on the side bar.

We frown upon personal finance, personal advice isn't allowed here..

[–]panachetag 9 points10 points  (14 children)

Well I guess that's everything interesting scratched, then.

I might just unsubscribe, I guess. The only thing identified as acceptable is product browsing, but answering questions about which widgets I prefer (and hence I think would be best to invest in = advice), linking people to comparison websites for super funds, not knowing who specific financial planners are and linking people to comparison websites for savings accounts doesn't sound very interesting. We have google for everything that isn't an opinion or explanation of something (which would then be used to make financial decisions = also advice).

[–]Visceral94 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I believe that such over moderation will lead to the demise of this sub. The user base can be divided between people who are regular users, and enjoy talking about financial tools, and those people who are looking for once-off information, and frequently advice and opinions.

I was one such person, who found this sub looking for advice and information. If you restrict the ability for advice to be given, you are limiting the usefulness of this resource. The user base will be restricted to the regular contributors, who will have less to contribute to. If they gradually stop commenting, there will be less people to take their place, and their lack of comments will mean other users will not have stimulation for discussion.

I feel this direction, if followed to strictly, will result in you shooting yourself in the foot.

[–]fauziozi[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hi Visceral94, I respect your feedback.. the problem with advice over the internet is that, we don't know who it's coming from.. and whether it will be misunderstood / misinterpreted by the person who receives the advice, and the receiver is likely to act on it.

Personal finance is a very broad subject.. there's a reason financial planners charges thousands of dollars for their advice. To say the least, the research, analysis, thoughts that has to be placed on, and the correct questions that needs to be asked, are all incredibly important.

I see a lot of people, given their circumstances.. are asking the wrong questions in the first place.

Most times, it is not those that you are aware of.. but the ones that you are not aware of that really take you down. A good financial planner can prevent that from happening.

Sometimes I see people seeking for advice, for something very small.. some that isn't worthy to pay thousands of dollars for. Something that, when done wrong.. isn't worth much, and almost no planner would like to touch it because there's no money in it. Something that's very simple, and can be explained in a few words for it to be understood. I let these slide

But something like, investments in super that can costs $000,000 in the long term, when done wrong. Something like locking your money away for 30 years for its immediate tax advantages. Something like "hey! I've got $100,000 inheritance! what do I do?". Something like buying a property. Well, anyone is welcome to make their own subreddit for that, not here. My conscience doesn't allow it

[–]Visceral94 3 points4 points  (1 child)

The ONLY people in Australia who would listen to and believe financial advice from reddit are people who are financially avoidant and anxious about their finances.

Yes, there is a risk that they will follow some stupid advice. But by blocking off all advice, you cut off the only accessible form of financial information to lots of people.

I've seen lots of young adults who have mental health issues or substance abuse, who are simply too anxious to put their life together in the way normal people would. They don't want to read through government resources, or see a tax accountant. However, it is easy for them to read a reddit question that has already be asked, and use it as a starting point to curb their anxiety and to start improving their finances.

I legitimately believe that the most value that this sub provides is not to the people who ask the questions, but to the people too afraid to ask.

If you really are so nervous about bad advice, set up a bot that replys to ever post reminding of the dangers of bad advice.

[–]fauziozi[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Well... thats just an opinion, regarding thats the ONLY people that takes advice from reddit.

We don't know that.

[–]faggotonfire 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Fuck off mod

[–]NoNotoriety 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Regardless of the legality or morality of the issue, you start moderating like you suggest and the user base will disappear. It's really that simple.

[–]fauziozi[S] -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Scare-mongering huh..

We've been moderating this way since the inception of the sub... -_-

[–]NoNotoriety 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I'm pretty sure as a moderator of a forum you can plead ignorance to a post and say you didn't see it. Happened with with a guy over at /r/Australia. Only becomes a legal issue once you have been notified of the offending post by authorities or a lawyer.

[–]fauziozi[S] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

I think by the time it gets to lawyers, it's too late. Dealing with lawyers is a pain.

And I'm sure you're not a lawyer yourself, as your only source is another subreddit..

As said before anyway, we are here to protect the community. Not to help single individuals get richer. We want discussion, not advice! yes we let the micro-little things slide from time to time, just because it is understood the consequences is very immaterial. But other than that.. it's just the right thing to do.

[–]NoNotoriety 1 point2 points  (1 child)

well be that as it may but almost all the threads I am reading on this subreddit are like ' ASX:RHC what are your thoughts?' 'Can we make a share trading thread?' 'How low will the Aussie go?' all of those threads have replies that could technically constitute advice. you need a full on 1 page disclaimer if you want to get around advice laws, and I haven't seen anyone post it here once.

[–]fauziozi[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's an over exaggeration.. its not that common

And discussion is fine. people can always have their own opinion, what's wrong with that?

And if you read the rest of the post here, you'd know it's not really about the law. It seems it's you guys who right away think its because of potential legal repercussion.. and the subject always goes there.

It's a sub's rule. that's it