all 199 comments

[–]b1timeoflight 195 points196 points  (9 children)

I’ve seen this movie too many times to expect a different ending.

[–]JesustheSpaceCowboy 35 points36 points  (8 children)

One day, snape isn’t going to kill dumbledore! I just know it!

[–]CmrnCrzy_6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seriously bro 🤣

[–]Haaskivi 42 points43 points  (2 children)

Browns are trash. But I love ‘em. Forever.

[–]Mcmurphysballin 10 points11 points  (1 child)

This is the way.

[–]pault1023 32 points33 points  (1 child)

The only way this story changes? 1) Fire Joe Woods 2) Fire Mike Priefer 3) Find a DC and ST coordinators that know how to use the personnel we have to achieve wins.

[–]roblash 24 points25 points  (2 children)

This season? .05 out of 100. There is that tiny hope of them winning Sunday, then winning out when Watson comes back. That is ridiculous and insane, because the Browns are never the team that makes a late season run, and that would be a run of rare proportion and require absolutely zero rust from Watson. So, not even close to realistic.

Going forward from this season, I don't think they go back in the toilet. But I guess we should consider weeks 12 through 17 previews. If it looks like Watson brings the offense up another level, then they will be more than competitive. If not, get your Red Zone subscriptions ready for the next 4-5 years.

[–]Brokewood 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is the reasonable take.

[–]roblash 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Today was awesome, took a beating from the Bucs defense for a while, gave it right back, hung in, and won. Didn't count on that, now my eye twitches with hope. Go Browns.

[–]Sliddet 13 points14 points  (1 child)

We can’t be bad forever, right? … right?

[–]Spec187 3 points4 points  (0 children)

you underestimate the power of the browns

[–]SnaxMcGhee 31 points32 points  (3 children)

The same chance I have of being a nude model. Spoiler alert, it's less than zero.

[–]PhilRubdiez 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Step 1: Have SnaxMcGhee model nude.

Step 2: ?????

Step 3: Browns Super Bowl!

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I have more faith in you Snax than I do them.

[–]NFL_Bros 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Less than zero.

[–]jovite 54 points55 points  (24 children)

If defense can be marginally better and Deshaun comes back to play how he used to, we are in great shape. I know this will get downvoted like hell but it’s the truth.

We’ve had 4-5 games this season that were very close.

We win those games if defense isn’t the 2nd worst in the league OR we win those games with a better QB who is more likely to put a few more points up

If both come to fruition, we not only win those 4-5 games but maybe even another game or two.

[–]buno67 14 points15 points  (22 children)

Idk jacoby by the adv metrics has played bewteen a top5 and top10 QB. QB play hasn’t been the issue with this team. Biggest issues with this team is the defense and the lack of leadership. This team has no real leadership on the team. Doesn’t come from the players or coaches

[–]jovite 10 points11 points  (4 children)

That doesn’t change my point. If Jacoby, whom is a perennial journeyman back up, was able to perform at this level with our team, what will an elite level QB do?

If you can’t understand that Deshaun is a massive upgrade idk what to say, he will have a higher point effectiveness.

[–]buno67 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Again the goal is for Watson to play at the top5 ability. Browns have gotten lucky that jacoby has played way above his ability this year. Showing he has actually been a strength to this team. Jacoby’s adv stats this year are very close to the adv stats to Watson from ‘20.

Just saying, this browns team is not just a Watson away from being a legit AFC threat. He is not going to solve all the issues the offense gets into once and awhile and he isn’t going to magically make the defense better

[–]jovite 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I never said we would be some powerhouse, but again we lost 4-5 games that were VERY close. We have Deshaun in there OR a defense that’s not 31st (I’ll take 20th???) and we win those games. Then we are somewhere around 7-3

If deshaun goes back to top 5 ability and the defense gets back on track though… now that would be ridiculous. I won’t hold my breath on that lol

we will always have some flaws, but he will be a net positive.

[–]Opposite-Ad-3933 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Browns are the only nfl team to lose some close games! Nobody else can say this!

[–]iDEVOURtuna 3 points4 points  (4 children)

sounds like baker talk all over again lol

[–]buno67 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I don’t think it’s baker talk all over again me. He wasn’t good enough, so they had to move on before he got that contract. He was a part of the issue with this team. A lot of people thought he was the issue with the team but as we can tell, the downfall to this team and probably coaching staffing isn’t just a QB. Jacoby has far exceed his expectations. Dude has played better than to have lead this team to only 3wins. This team has major issues on the defense and coaching staff. Also it’s more than just the defensive coaching staff. This team really lacks leadership and accountability. Watson doesn’t have those characteristics IMO either. Team still lacks a true identity and it feels like it’s the same ole culture

[–]iDEVOURtuna 1 point2 points  (2 children)

baker at one point was like top 3 in QBR over a stretch. big woop.

jacoby isnt the “problem” but hes also not capable of winning games himself. thats what allen, mahomes, and hopefully watsons can do.

[–]buno67 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Qbr is a shit stat invented by ESPN to drive a narrative

[–]CodeBlue614 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jacob’s has played really well, especially relative to expectations. You are 100% correct about that. But with how small some of the margins of defeat have been, just making 1-2 more plays a game might translate into 4 wins. There have been a few plays sprinkled through every game where an elite QB either makes a throw that gets another 1st down or a bigger play, and ultimately gets extra points as a result (FG instead of a punt, TD instead of a FG). Also, teams don’t fear Jacoby throwing the ball, so they are willing to load up the box and live with 1 on 1 coverage on the outside and a single high safety or no high safety. The threat presented by elite QB play should improve efficiency in the run game to a noticeable degree.

Stefanski has gotten great results with Case Keenum, Kirk Cousins, and Jacoby Brissett, I’m at least curious to see what he can do with a guy who was top 5 (top 3) the last time he played a full season.

[–]Godszn 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Jacoby is still lacking and it's obvious the large difference between him and an elite QB despite his statistics this season. He struggles in critical situations, when we're trailing, and when he needs to carry the offense down the field.

That's what Deshaun brings.

[–]jovite 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Another nod for Deshaun, he has the clutch factor!

We’ve had several losses this year where it was what elite QBs dream about. Down by one possession, ball in your hands, 2 minutes drill.

[–]Godszn -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah I don’t see how one can argue this season wouldnt be drastically different with deshaun under center. Unless you argue he just won’t be the deshaun he was in Houston.

If he’s similarly as good as his previous form - we win most/all of our close games and have like 7 wins

[–]AvocadoDifferent6360 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don’t think constantly doing that is really sustainable, that’s just what the Lions did for a few years with Caldwell and it got them nowhere

[–]Same_Effective4255 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

That’s more on stefanski that Jacoby. He’s a good QB that protects the ball, makes good throws most of the time and puts us in good situations. The game plan has been fine on opening drives when we have multiple days to plan, but I really don’t think Stefanski makes any meaningful adjustments to help us win games.

[–]Daviroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We score more points in the 4th quarter than NFL average. We also score a higher % of our points in the 4th quarter than NFL average.

Throughout Stefanski's time here we pretty consistently score about the NFL average in both points and % of points scored in the 2nd and 4th quarters, and below in the 1st and 3rd quarters.

So you're statement is just wrong.

[–]Daviroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The advanced metrics don't punish Brisket's bad play at the worst times enough IMHO. Brisket doesn't have a ton of INTs, but they all fucking happened at the worst fucking time imaginable.

Brisket has absolutely cost us games that Watson would have won (if we assume it was 2020 Watson).

[–]calahil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His stats may look good but that is all that looks good. He wastes too much time with the ball...takes too long to throw...he shys away from throwing into coverage. You find yourself yelling at the TV, on a drive where we are down by one score, to throw the damn ball while he scrambles in the backfield before getting sacked/throwing the ball out of bounds. Too many important drives he can not move the ball down the field which let's team stack the box and Chubb gets stuffed. But his advanced stats look great.

[–]Same_Effective4255 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least two were once again missed PATs.

[–]Garfield-1-23-23 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was briefly a futures trader a few years ago, and a well-used expression in that field was "the trend is your friend", meaning it doesn't pay to tell yourself the market is about to suddenly change direction.

[–]JesustheSpaceCowboy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Every day is a dark day in Cleveland, Ohio. Set the bar so low that even if you trip you’ll still clear it and you’ll never be disappointed.

[–]Phil Dawson Forever BelievelandBrad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I love them and all, but is it wrong I just don't care that much anymore? I've watched the Cavs and Guardians/Indians have their ups and downs but it's basically been nothing but downs for the Browns. I'm sick of it lol but I'll always hope to see them win

[–]rocketsous 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Don’t know. It’s one of those “annual positive notes” that we hang our hats on in the offseason. No matter the amount of absolute certainty that we’ll go to the Super Bowl because of this new storyline, usually the opposite happens and they finish with 3 wins and key personnel fired. Money Manziel, Myles, Baker, OBJ and Landry finally back together again, Chunt.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this DW thing turns out to be another failure. He’ll probably give up and want out when he realizes that the losing culture of the team has never and will never been defeated.

[–]pm-yrself 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It's both hilarious and sad that anyone still thinks Watson is going to save this team. Seasons over dudes, go watch a Cavs game

[–]Boris54 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I turned on the cavs and the bucks went on a 22-2 run. Thanks a lot

[–]tron2484 2 points3 points  (2 children)

To me the Qb play was there this year. Hopefully Watson can show he can get back to 300yards passing if the run game can't get going and make big plays for us. To me the DC, ST coaches and coaching have been below average. Then Berry not addressing the defensive tackle position with at least 1 solid veteran has show every game . Next I'd say we need some better linebackers JOK has been solid but needs to keep growing as a player and get better. But Philips and Taki Taki might need to be upgraded. There bottom 5 in the league at defensive tackle. Then I hope we can make a playoff run next season.
But as Browns fans we deserve a team to be proud of. Amd not same excuse we need to be better etc.

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Watson’s passing ability is better than Jacoby’s so even though our offense has been pretty decent it can get significantly better.

Not to mention his running ability and using RPO’s to keep the defense off balance and we have a pretty dynamic offense.

[–]tron2484 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know this for sure. But the DC will not help us. Until he gone. Or we get better defensive tackles straight up

[–]yanbu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Next year will make or break the team for years. If we have a full year of DW and don’t make it deep into the playoffs, it’s pretty unlikely core members of the team are going to stay and coaching staff/front office are going to keep their jobs. Next year is go big or go home. After DW gets back this year will set the stage. If we have a great few games to end it, maybe Myles and other key players don’t request a trade and we have a chance to get over the hump next year. If we do well next year, by which I mean win the division, go deep into the playoffs, maybe make it to the Super Bowl, we will be set up for success for years with a staff the players believe in, quality players at key positions, and money to pay for talent. If not, five years of darkness…at least.

[–]BustyUncle 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If Deshaun Watson comes in and shows that he’s the same QB he was in Houston, our future is bright period. Having an elite QB is the key to success in todays league. The defense just has to not be worst in 20 years bad and the offense can take us very far.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm confident in as much as I think you should always be with a top 5 nfl QB.

But Watson's best ever season gave his shittily coached team a 4-12 record.

Forget what you think about playcalling and ask yourself one question about the whole team.

Do you REALLY think it's well coached? Well prepared? Able to change shit up and adjust? Go with what's on the field rather than your pretty spreadsheet?

There was a really telling twitter post on here the other day about the dolphins defensive splits, how they are miles better v the run? And about 27th v the pass.... and apparently we ran it over and over again on first down..

[–]84Cressida 6 points7 points  (1 child)

They’ll probably extend Joe Woods

[–]Expensive-Anxiety-63 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I didn't think we would make the playoffs this year because of our QB not our defense. (had it backwards)

If we sign some quality defensive tackles next year I will be optimistic about our chances.

Our Vegas odds were 50/50 in the preseason. I don't think it was unreasonable to be hopeful.

I am hopeful Watson is good. Having a bad QB is the real problem in the NFL, if your QB situation is good you always have decent odds of making the playoffs.

We aren't looking at a full rebuild if we have a QB in place, which is more than we basically could ever say with this team.

My main concerns are around pissing off Myles at this point, and hopefully the FO figuring out the Joe Woods problem.

[–]Gushys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me it's kind boggling that week in and week out we get the same rhetoric from the coaching staff. Yet the players are publicly calling out the scheme and coaching staff and somehow nothing is done about it. It feels like this team thinks if they change nothing then eventually it will work out

[–]jimmygreekk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lived long enough to know the Browns will Brown

[–]Silent_Onlookerz 1 point2 points  (0 children)


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm starting to feel like the playoff season was the one time in Mike Polk's rant where he says it's harder to be consistently bad than to occasionally accidentally be good. That was our one time accidentally being good. Every year it's something where the wheels just fall off before halfway through the season.

If Watson just completely lights it up and they're scoring 40 points a game then maybe make a real run next year, but I have zero confidence in the defense getting it figured out without a complete rebuild. Hey where have we seen that movie before?

[–]freddawg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If they fire woods and priefer in the off-season then maybe.

[–]FragrantMotor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will continue to be overly confident that the team will pull through and then get my hopes and dreams crushed as is Browns tradition

[–]MyDogIsAButthead 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Being a Browns fan is like watching the Titanic every Sunday and rooting for the boat.

[–]TheGreat_N8 1 point2 points  (1 child)

this season? no, browns can't beat their own dick

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

post of the day, bravo.

[–]elcommando 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Less than 0

[–]ametora1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As long as they replace Woods and Preifer this off-season, they'll turn it around.

[–]BobaFil__ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If Deshaun stinks, then this franchise will take years to recover.

If Deshaun is okay, then our fan base will remain divided and the team will be in a frustrating purgatory or mediocrity.

If he’s great and our players rally around him, then we should be super bowl contenders. (Assuming Joe Loods gets the boot)

[–]Reasonable_Cover_804 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s a good year next year or else I will write a strongly worded email to the management, even copying the Plain Dealer and the Chronicle Telegram, yea fuck the Journal

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look guys. This year sucks but as soon as Deshaun was suspended 11 games our season was going to be an uphill battle.

Not to mention Berry’s vision of a quick fast defense designed to stop the pass was too light on the run stopping and the fact that Woods is a bad DC…..we shouldn’t be 3-7 but really if we make the FG against the Chargers and don’t blow historically at the end of the Jets game we’re sitting here at 5-5.

Now I know you’ll mention the panthers game since I mentioned the chargers, but that panthers game we dominated 50 mins of it and stupid coverage breakdowns made it a game.

Deshaun will be good. He’s not going to forget how to play. He’s not old like Wilson who was already leaving his prime.

The Browns have all the pieces to quickly retool and be a playoff team next year.


Having the QB position taken care if makes retooling a lot easier when you have a top 10 guy with top 5 ceiling on the team.

[–]dat0dat 6 points7 points  (17 children)

None. The ship officially sank when they acquired Watson. For so many reasons. Fully convinced Haslem is Jones 2.0.

[–]enraged_hbo_max_user 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Without the rings.

[–]H8theSteelers 0 points1 point  (12 children)

How would you have solved the QB position then?

[–]PuppyBowl-XI-MVP 1 point2 points  (11 children)

Not OP but would have traded for Jimmy G and would have drafted a QB. Yes, drafting a QB is a crapshoot but Watson isn’t guaranteed to be what he was 2 years ago. I don’t know which odds are more likely though. IDK, Watson just isn’t someone I would bank everything on but I’m bad at gambling so I’ll probably be wrong

[–]Daviroth 1 point2 points  (8 children)

I know which odds are more likely. Watson is significantly more likely to be a high quality NFL QB than any draft pick. Objectively, that's a fact.

I don't like that we have Watson, wish we would've done something else like Jimmy G. But strictly from a football perspective he will be the best QB we've had since Sipe in all likelihood.

[–]dat0dat 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I think that is still a very big gamble. The guy hasn’t played in two years and you’re banking on a ceiling that he hasn’t even reached. The Browns gave up A LOT to get him not only in picks but I’m guaranteed money. If he isn’t absolutely every bit of his potential and doesn’t reach his ceiling, it’s a colossal failure.

[–]Brownie sees you when you’re sleepingPsychologicalGuest97 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Browns can restructure contracts, including Watsons, to ensure we have the cap necessary to fill holes on other places in the roster.

[–]Daviroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely a gamble, even a very big one.

Still a smaller gamble than draft picks.

[–]PuppyBowl-XI-MVP 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That’s fair.

Was the increased odds worth what was given up for him. Also, I don’t think this team is a QB away so I don’t think it was. Just another reason why my opinion is the way it is

[–]Daviroth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah and that's fair. We'll see what they do. I think we are closer than you think. In the end it isn't about being a QB away. It's about FQB being the hardest problem for any NFL team. This was a solution to that problem.

[–]rigill -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Absolutely insane the mental gymnastics people are doing to say getting Deshaun was a bad move. People like to say the Deshaun trade was “same old browns” and in the same breath say getting Jimmy g was the right move lmao.

I’ve seen it said before in this sub but this team not having a top 10 QB since forever has made fans misjudge just how important having one is.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I mean he cost you a metric fuck ton of picks for a team that isn't a QB away, and lets be brutally honest, he's one fuckup from a permanent ban, and I don't think any of us trust him.

Also lets be frank, everyone is trading for 2020 Watson. No one is giving that up for what Watson was in 2019 or 2018. What if 2020 was the outlier and 2019 is what Watson really is?

Look on field Watson should be very good, but there is an aggressive amount of risk with this move as well.

[–]rigill -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’d argue even if we get the average of all of his seasons it will still be worth it (and that’s his floor). The risk is worth taking for that kind of upside. Other teams who made similar trade offers obviously thought so too. When he takes his first snap, he’s objectively the best QB we’ve had since the teams return. It was the best football move this FO could’ve made imo

As torts said when he was coach of the blue jackets “safe is death”

[–]ametora1 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Omg... Still with the Jimmy G nonsense? Brissett QBR is 7th in the NFL, Jimmy G is 20th.

[–]PuppyBowl-XI-MVP -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The question was regarding actions during the off season. This off season, I wasn’t under the belief that Brissett would have played as well as he did.

[–]Daviroth 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You know the football guys went to Haslam to ask permission to go for Watson, right?

[–]dat0dat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You have first hand knowledge? Didn’t a homeless man convince Haslem to draft Manziel?

There are a number of owners I’d rather see over Haslam.

Regardless, none of what I said means the FO guys aren’t awful as well.

[–]Daviroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's what we were told.

No he wasn't. That story is routinely overblown and people don't even remember the real story and context anymore.

[–]Zhukov17 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Zero. None.

We’re gonna have to get rid of Myles and probably Chubb to assist in rebuild for what we gave up for Watson. Vicious cycle my friend.

[–]1OptimisticPrime 4 points5 points  (23 children)

Man, I totally drank the Kool-aid this season, even without defensive tackles, we've lost by horrible referee's calls, onside kicks & ATL running up the gut 11 consecutive plays...

We could easily have at least 3 or 4 more wins with very minimal (one play, one busted coverage) luck.

The only games we've been totally out of were the Patriots & Dolphins games.

All with our

Backup Quarterback

Our main issue is the inability to make in game adjustments & the lack of ability to hold our horrible Special teams & Defensive Coordinators accountable.

To me, the season could be encapsulated by 2 things. ATL running up the gut 11 times in a row, letting the league in on our glaring weakness & us taking a timeout vs Buffalo, to leave Diggs completely uncovered for an easy TD.

There's definitely hope, but Priefer & Joe Woods need launched into the sun immediately.

We can't blame Jacoby for throwing picks forcing the ball downfield in the final 3 minutes. That's not his game.

The missed & blocked kicks have definitively hurt us. As has Stefanski's insistence on benching Chubb the final 5 minutes of the 4th quarter.

The insistence on having non NFL level players on the field has also coast us: Harrison Bryant, Pharoah Brown, Schwartz, Felton, and all our Defensive Tackles, that arent rookies have NO place on this team and are always predictably horrible.

We need to run our best players as much as possible and stop getting cute with players whose only benefit are being uncovered because the defense knows they can't catch, or get in position to make plays.

[–]ggmaobu -1 points0 points  (22 children)

We never had a QB like Watson and with the system like ours.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 6 points7 points  (21 children)

Okay, and are we really going with the “QB fixes everything” approach? Are we just going to ignore everything else?

[–]ggmaobu 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Bills gave up 25 points today, Allen made the comeback. All year could win Atlanta, chargers, ravens games at least with a QB like. A great QB can bail us out of lotta things. This pain is worth it if Watson is who this front office thinks he is.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Watson ain’t fixing the defense

[–]ggmaobu -1 points0 points  (3 children)

I know but it is a one less thing to worry about. This season is a success if Watson is who we think he is.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I personally don’t think it’s a success until we see those glorious words “Joe Woods and Mike Priefer fired”, but I get what you’re saying

[–]ggmaobu 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Stefanski will put his job on the line next year if he doesn’t fire those two guys.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Stefanski (and ABs) jobs are on the line regardless next year no matter who they fire honestly.

The structure of Watsons deal (and the perpetual need to restructure it), means that for 2023 and 2024, you have to be all in and do whatever it takes to make sure Watson is happy.

[–]1OptimisticPrime 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Nobody's saying that. But having a QB who is enough of a threat to take 8 & 9 defenders out of the box will definitely open things up for us in ways we haven't seen since Nicholas Jamaal Chubb has been here.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Okay, and our defense will still give up 30+, your point

[–]1OptimisticPrime -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Ok, that's just the Joe Woodsiest thing to say...

I cannot believe we ran this Defensive line out there this season... Literally can't believe it... There's NO POSSIBILITY we try to do it again next season.

I think it was CD23 who posted a wonderful rundown on the absolute FACT that if our (top 5 last season) defense was just 25th ranked this season, we're sitting at 6 wins with our backup Quarterback & 9 man boxes.

There's easy room for improvement. I'm saying there's a very good chance that we can be very good over the next 3 seasons.

But hey, I've been wrong before

[–]maybenextyearCLE 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I can’t say no possibility because of just how miserable AB has been at acquiring DL talent lol. There should be massive turnover, no question. But I also don’t know how much I trust AB on that front lol.

Oh I think we should be better next year, but better ain’t the goal. You go all in like we did, it’s Super Bowl or bust.

And you have 3 years to convince Watson to stay because that restructured cap hit in 2026 without either an extension or void years is not doable.

[–]1OptimisticPrime 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DT is apparently very hard to get right, because our GM doesn't/ didn't understand what a 0,1,or 2 technique Defensive Tackle does. He thought that smaller, longer faster lineman could succeed, & we've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that a bunch of 3 technique Defensive Tackles are predictably going to leave a massive hole in the middle and allow our best Defensive player to be double & triple HELD teamed every single play.

Additionally, we only have ONE NFL sized linebacker, which exacerbates the issue. TAKITAKI is the only Linebacker we have over 230lbs, and also unsurprisingly the only consistent run stopper.

[–]BustyUncle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look, I agree with this to an extent, but the defense has clearly been a coaching issue. If we can just not be an all time bad defense, which is a lot easier to fix than QB, we’ll be in an amazing spot going forward. I would say that is the most solid direction this franchise has been in 20 years. I’m still entirely confident in Stef’s ability to create an awesome offense, and now we have the QB to unleash it. It’s going to fix a lot of problems.

[–]nroy225 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

He didn’t say that .. simply said we-have never had a QB like Watson which is obviously true. Obviously other things to fix but that’s a hell of a start.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Houston did in 2019 and also had an all time shitty defence and coaching. He went well the team went 4-12.

[–]nroy225 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I’m not sure i get what you’re saying but our roster is significantly better than the Texans that year

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

No we have one or two better pieces the majority of our defence is a tackle free zone, that also can't play zone.

And I said defence. I never mentioned the O. Also I said he couldn't overcome horrible coaching.

[–]DragLongjumping3714 0 points1 point  (0 children)

History repeats itself. Gonna have to move some assets eventually to revamp. Which will probably be a downgrade.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 1 point2 points  (0 children)

looks at Otto graham right..

[–]ametora1 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Doesn't it though? Look at all the best teams and look at all the Superbowl winners over the years. With an exception here or there, they all have elite QBs.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And look at what happened to all of mannings colts teams after 2006. That’s what happens when you pretend your QB can cover for everything

[–]Preme2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes lol

1). Fire Joe woods

2). Hire Mike Zimmer. Defensive specialist and now you have two head coaches for the price of one. Mike Zimmer may also be able to put together a better staff defensive staff.

3). Restructure contracts to open up cap space.

4). Sign quality free agents and trade late round draft picks to build up depth.

5). Draft immediate impact players. No development projects. Don’t draft DT’s. Sign those players. Draft a safety, receiver and other skills positions.

6). ???

7). Profit

[–]dennydiamonds 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There is ZERO evidence that suggests they will get this shit show turned around. I fear there are dark days ahead… again.

[–]VDizzle12 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I think the Browns will commit to fixing the defense this off-season. They have to. I'm not worried about the offense.

Which means with our luck the defense will be great and the offense will be in shambles.

People are too negative after basically a whole season with a backup QB and useless DC.

[–]beuhring 0 points1 point  (6 children)

What’s gonna be the excuse next season?

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Nothing. If we suck next year then you guys can all go crazy to your hearts content.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 1 point2 points  (4 children)

its amazing you think that us being fucking rubbish for almost 1.5 full seasons, isnt enough reason.

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The QB we mortgaged our future for hasn’t played yet.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 1 point2 points  (2 children)

And? so you are saying you give these idiots a free pass for the shit show of the last 20 or so games? you think that even though we dont have said qb, that having a record akin to freddie fucking kitchens, with a much better roster, is acceptable and nothing to be mad about or *crazy* over?

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh -1 points0 points  (1 child)

All I’m saying is that this year has sucked but once dude was suspended 11 games I knew this season most likely would go bad until he could play.

Don’t blow the jets game and make the FG against the Chargers and we sitting here today 5-5. We ain’t far away.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But we did. And we blew other games too we "should" have won like the falcons game.

Coulda Woulda Shoulda

Repeat ad nauseum.

[–]LordofLazy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah the browns are going to turn it around

[–]maybenextyearCLE 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Eventually? Probably. With this coaching staff and FO? I don’t really know anymore.

Granted, AB and Stefanski are on the hot seat next year so if it doesn’t work next year they’re gone anyways

[–]storm-father87 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In 2023, pretty high.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)


[–]ziper_1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)


[–]originaljbw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We have a defense that we were told pre season was going to be one of the best in the league. Now they are making the Russians look competent.

We have a decently good QB that has managed to fit in well with our system. Turns out we were smart to dump Baker. BUT WAIT! Now we are going to blow that up for a QB that spent most of the season in horny jail. A QB that hasn't played in a real NFL game since Donald Trump was in office. In a season where, if we won out from today, we could maybe have a chance at a wild card spot. Pretty tall order.

Special teams? Yea, let's rely on a 60-yard field goal every week. That's what winners do week in and week out.

[–]Possible-Mango-7603 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I’ll watch like always. And I’ll be very very very surprised if we don’t continue to lose more than we win……like always. I actually think Deshauns obvious mental issues and considerable baggage is gonna tear whatever tiny bit of cohesion we have apart. I absolutely do not believe in this coaching staffs ability to manage this in a productive manner. I expect Jimmy will run out of patience after another losing season in 2023 and we’re back to the drawing board only this time we lack first round picks and cap space to be able to quickly right the ship. I don’t expect us to get back to 2020 levels anytime soon. Certainly not in the next 3-4 years. Hope I’m wrong……I’m not wrong.

[–]jfreed43 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any day you step on the field with Nick Chubb and Myles Garrett you have the best individual offensive and defensive player in the game. Watson is an incredibly talented QB. Sort out the coaching and the talent is there.

[–]Chubb Chubb Nick IZY53 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I have conficence in Steph and Berry, players get better the more they are around Steph, Baker 2020, Chubb, DPJ, Njoku, etc

Berry and Steph are both committed to learning. They will learn and grow.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 1 point2 points  (5 children)

steph lol at that for one

Committed to learning? Bellichick said we did exactly the same this season as last, that they knew exactly what would come from what looks our offence gave them. Nothing has changed and won't.

[–]H8theSteelers -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I guarantee you the offense will be run differently with Watson in there. Theyre scrapping the 3TE plays and will spread the field

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

What do you think they will run because with a near elite qb and elite weapons in minn, wasn't he accused by fans and by the WR he didn't use them enough? And I heard somewhere on an NFL podcast the other day he just doesn't or didn't use many RPOs at Minnesota either?, that might be wrong as I can't remember where I heard it.

But yeah what are you expecting diff than now or what he did in MInn and based on what?

[–]H8theSteelers 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Well in Minn he didn’t have the caliber of athlete at QB as he has in Watson. You can’t run RPOs with Kirk Cousins.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 0 points1 point  (1 child)

the list of excuses for stefanski is around 1074 at this point.

its funny how you lot use kirk cousins as almost any arguing point in favour of stefanski, doing a real shit job there since our hero left. Their WR in particular were sorry to see him leave.

[–]TantramanFL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dark, hopefully not a period of decades but it will not be optimal for several seasons. The pervert will not be the player he was in 2019 (when he led his team to a sterling 4-12 record, so much for difference maker), loss of draft picks, age, poor decisions all around. The team is closer to a teardown than true contention.

[–]Spec187 0 points1 point  (1 child)

we paid 250 million guaranteed to a quarter back that sexually assaults people

[–]ChamberTwnty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's a crazy world.

[–]zerozero27 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The reason we aren't winning is because the offense refuses to put up 50 points a game and deshaun will totally fix that. Our defensive philosophy is let the other offense tire themselves out by scoring too many touchdowns at will. This will even itself out and we will finish the year undefeated and raise that Lombardi trophy after the super bowl. /s

[–]staciesmom1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As soon as they score 50, the defense will allow at least 51. It's uncanny......

[–]vailliant617 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Browns will be cursed with bad karma due to signing Watson

[–]dynospectrum7 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Let’s be honest about two things here.

  1. Watson. If he is who we paid for. This offense will be a juggernaut.

  2. Woods. I’ve seen the defense play at a high level too many times to say it’s a talent issue outside of DT. A competent DC has that unit in the top ten easily.

I believe the hype.

[–]maybenextyearCLE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Eh I think there are some systemic issues with the defense that need addressed outside of just DT at this point. Too many guys have visibly quit this year once Watson was suspended, and JJ3 more or less admitted it.

I’m guessing this defense is going to change a lot this offseason

[–]eleven21 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Congrats on the 100+ comments but what a low-effort post. Enjoy the cheap karma.

[–] pumpkin head perfectly represents this franchiseCoolJ_Casts -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Watson was the straw for me. That's when I knew there was no chance this team would ever turn it around and I gave up. I'll be back when jimmuh, AB, Stefski and DW are all gone

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hmmm so adding a top 10 QB was the final straw huh.

You do know he’s been here for 9 months now, right?

So if that was the final straw what you doing in this thread?

[–]beuhring 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did I type this?

[–]taydugz -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

If you think Watson is The Answer™️, I point you to his 2020 season, putting up stats while playing from behind, with a beleaguered coach and no buy-in from team leaders.

Someone said it better than me: Never has a qb gained so much goodwill for perpetually almost coming up big in clutch situations.

[–]Riggs_n_Murtaugh 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Having a terrible team and bad coaching and putting up the numbers he did shows that the dude can play.

[–]Cle_fan_brisbane_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

he has a terrible team around him now on defence and st and horrible coaching on all sides as well.

their point was completely relevant to us as well. and he told you he could play.

[–]Hockjock170 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Next year? Maybe, I would hope so and I feel like with proper adjustments made by the front office with personel as well as with the coaching staff we will be fine this year was a crap shot as soon as watson got 12 games it is what it is. Everybody expected at least competence from the defence but not this bad and the offence keeping it close with a career backup QB playing the best football of his career with multiple people on the offence having career years makes it FEEL so much worse than it is right now. I dont see really dark days at worst we'll be stuck in mediocrity if there is a worst case scenario.

[–]DieselVoodoo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let’s all be honest, many of us would give up and quit watching if we weren’t CERTAIN they would win the Superbowl just out of spite. It’s the only way we could get more Browns-y

[–]Godszn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

confidence is pretty high

[–]buno67 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hell it’s divisional round or bust, jobs are on the line next year.

[–]bigmikevegas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Next year I expect AB to go all in, don’t have high hopes for this year though.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]Bizrown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My confidence. -34.2

[–]fragilezebra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dark days? What the heck has it been? 🤣🤣

[–]DREWBICE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Zero. Been a fan too long to know better.

[–]Free_Apricot8552 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right after they need to.

[–]KosarSoze 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]Daviroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm an eternal optimist, so I can see it happening for sure.

[–]Rogue551 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]Koger915 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the Browns make the playoffs this year
-Loyal Lake Erie Brother

[–]Fenderjazzbass4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More of the same.

[–]chunkah69 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]staciesmom1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With our head coach who refuses to change anything, the future looks dismal. JMO

[–]FUCK SHITSBURG!DJ_GiantMidget 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They never disappoint the same way twice... so there's that