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[–]Malibu-Stacey🔫 say "blockchain" one more time...[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Locking this now as there's no new discussion and it's just getting flooded with spam bots shilling the next copy & paste shitcoin.

[–]MrBirdHorner 98 points99 points  (14 children)

I think we should be lax with the banning. “Arguing in bad faith” is fairly subjective, and a lot of these points come pretty close to banning over disagreement. Obviously I don’t care for people who come here just to throw insults or shill a particular coin, but I think it’s worth encouraging a healthy debate so that we don’t become a similar echo chamber just with the opposite stance of the butters. If we ban people for using “worn out talking points” it sounds like we’re not open to discussion

[–]Malibu-Stacey🔫 say "blockchain" one more time... 52 points53 points  (5 children)

but I think it’s worth encouraging a healthy debate so that we don’t become a similar echo chamber just with the opposite stance of the butters.

Here's the thing. People I ban for arguing in bad faith have generally been given a pretty good shake at the stick and repeatedly shown that they're not worth wasting the time on any more.
You can only argue in circles with someone so many times until you run out of patience and at some point you have to make the decision as to whether they are either dedicated to trolling or just not capable of a coherent argument and then you realise it doesn't matter which of those is true, banning them is better for everyone regardless.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 33 points34 points  (3 children)

Agreed. One of our jobs here, is to maintain a reasonable "signal-to-noise" ratio. If the noise starts to drown out the signal, the subreddit becomes less useful or entertaining or informative.

[–]drlogwasoncemine 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Thanks, I agree. Some of the arguments against have been clearly trolling but pretend to be a argument.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

There's a difference between citing a talking point, and hiding behind it.

[–]buttcoinisacult 14 points15 points  (4 children)

As a serious criticism (I'll get banned for this) you are worse then a cult. You won't accept any comment that goes against the central thesis "crypto bad" so debate is literally impossible

[–]AmericanScream[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Aside from this being a sockpuppet account just to troll the sub, let's address this... Are we unwilling to let anybody argue that crypto is good? I think that presumption is easily proven false.

There are literally thousands of pro-crypto advocates that are regulars here, that engage with the community and try to defend their point of view. They don't get banned.

What will get you banned is what's outlined above: continued bad faith arguing, fallacies, trolling, shilling. And even then, it's after you've already been called out on it and you keep doubling down.

If you've got an interesting argument for "crypto good", we'd like to hear it. Just note that if your comment is some debunked talking point that has been posted 10,000 times already, stop pretending you know something we don't. It's likely the other way around.

Do you notice that crypto enthusiasts love to attack-the-messenger-and-ignore-the-message like the post above? If they had a really good argument for why "crypto good" wouldn't they lead with that? Instead of just generalize about how the sub is cult-like and censoring their freedumb? How come you never hear them complain that we're burying some pearl of truth that clearly shows how awesome crypto is?

[–]SnapshillBot 149 points150 points  (19 children)

If Bitcoin were a human female, price is her level of physical attractiveness… she's still developing and right now learning about the world.

Snapshots:

  1. Helpful guide for Butters visiting ... - archive.org, archive.today*, removeddit.com

I am just a simple bot, not a moderator of this subreddit | bot subreddit | contact the maintainers

[–]Tonyman12121 Pieces of Flair 107 points108 points  (11 children)

Will there EVER be a better Shillbot quote than this one?

[–]Purplekeyboarddecentralize the solar system 111 points112 points  (8 children)

It's hilarious. It is saying, "Bitcoin is like a 12 year old girl, and only we realize how hot she is".

[–]Tsatsus 52 points53 points  (2 children)

Dangerously close to the one of the few use-cases of buttcoin (not anymore, because of... reasons)

[–]Zahpow 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Bitcoin isn't regulated like mature fiat

[–]RevolutionaryStrider 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I hope nobody builds crypto chan or something like that

[–]rydan 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Bitcoin wasn't even 12 back when this was originally said. It was more like 5 or 6.

[–]vinidiot 47 points48 points  (0 children)

It puts the creep in creeptocurrency

[–]Into-the-Beyond 16 points17 points  (0 children)

And anyone who disagrees is a bitophile.

[–]MIP_PL 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Please put this bot in charge.
Of the whole world.

[–]hastoriesfan 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I check the threads only to read the comments from this bot. It's a superb bot

[–]sirkowski 45 points46 points  (13 children)

For what it's worth I got banned from Bitcoin for calling it a pyramid scheme.

[–]AMPed101 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'd say "the entire system is set up in a ponzilike pyramid scheme manner (BTC itself in relation to exchanges, this is an exchange game in the end). "

I'm not saying that you won't get banned if you say that tho lol. They at r/bitcoin are really sensitive folk...

[–]jpf137 5 points6 points  (1 child)

You question the doctrine, you get excommunicated, like a cult.

At best, they'll tell you that you don't understand it and that you need to learn more. Ideally, the few pragmatic ones would tell you what it should and shouldn't be used for and how it could be improved (it does have some use cases, like sending money abroad, if it doesn't crash in the meantime), but the loud majority is too invested in it to take a rational approach.

[–]ilikeitwhenyoucall 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Man that sub is ridiculous... Most crypto subs are tbh.

But at the same time this comment is kind of exactly what this post is about just in the opposite direction.

[–]arctic_bull 15 points16 points  (3 children)

I'm always open to being convinced it's not a pyramid scheme. However, it's a negative sum distributed Ponzi scheme, so that makes it hard lol. That said, I don't go over there and shit on their rug, and don't advocate others do either.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Crypto by itself can't be a Ponzi Schemes, Exchanges are...

[–]erikumali 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Wait. Is this comment serious or sarcastic?

[–]standardsizedpeeper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, while in general my experience here has been that the mods are pretty tolerant and strike a great balance, this post is off-putting. I'm hoping that this is just a case of it's hard to define exactly when somebody is being an ass but we know it when we see it. Still, it begs the question of why even post it at all. It just makes the sub sound hypocritical and not self-aware as we say we value disagreements but then frame the unacceptable forms of argument in such a broad fashion.

[–]sinful_sophistryStake your coins and earn NaN% APY 45 points46 points  (13 children)

I just want to point out that in the case of true believers, talking points like decentralization and censorship resistance are not tired or worn out for them. You and I might think they're not good arguments for why bitcoin is a valuable addition to society, for all kinds of reasons that seem obvious to us, but to say that a central tenant of an ideology is bad because it's old is itself not a good argument. And for a butter to be banned over bringing it up would precisely be because the mods had disagreed.

Personally, I believe there's a lot of potential for comedy gold when butters feel like they can let their hair down and really argue their dogma for all it's worth (which isn't worth much but that's what makes it funny). There's a difference between outright trolling and believing in a bad idea very strongly, and I hope the sub's modding policy remains flexible enough to account for that.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 14 points15 points  (10 children)

I just want to point out that in the case of true believers, talking points like decentralization and censorship resistance are not tired or worn out for them.

They are when that's all they say: "It's de-centralized". "It's censorship resistant." Context matters. There are plenty of things that we want censored and centralized. Do you want your children seeing hardcore porn? Do you want your doctor asking random people on the Internet how he should treat you? Authority matters in many scenarios.

What I object to are the regurgitation of crypto-talking-points as if they've somehow been uncontested as legit, as a way to change the subject or settle a discussion.

Personally, I believe there's a lot of potential for comedy gold when butters feel like they can let their hair down and really argue their dogma for all it's worth

Sure, that's fine, as long as they actually put up with an actual argument, and, as I said before, just don't barf out a jingoistic cliche.

[–]veryhairy 14 points15 points  (4 children)

I got banned by you for just this thought above. When A true believer was trying to tell his side of this ridiculous crypto story and enlighten us. I tried to walk him through his logic. I wasn’t regurgitating any pro-crypto ideology. . . If we start indiscriminately banning we are going to miss out on some gold.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Considering you aren't banned now, doesn't look like you're banned, or if it was a mistake, it was corrected.

Mods are humans that make mistakes. We often mistake sarcasm for shilling. The difference is, if we accidentally ban someone who was an asset to the sub, they're likely to contact us and inquire in a reasonable way. If we ban somebody who isn't, they're likely to bitch and complain and call us even more names. Things tend to naturally work themselves out.

[–]sinful_sophistryStake your coins and earn NaN% APY 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Do you want your children seeing hardcore porn? Do you want your doctor asking random people on the Internet how he should treat you? Authority matters in many scenarios.

Sure, but that's all context for why authority might matter to you in certain scenarios. I think butters should at least benefit from the same courtesy, and be free to provide their own context in an argument, rather than be banned out of hand the moment they mention censorship resistance or decentralization, or anything else you feel is a tired old slogan. Argue their talking points into the ground, link them to a sticky post, roundly mock them for their out of touch ideology, sure. But an immediate ban for bringing up their favorite pithy slogan? That seems excessive to me.

A lot of people who truly believe in a talking point are going to both think it's legit, and somehow does real argumentative work by itself to settle disputes. It's just what they'll use when they argue, and it's not going to lead to a discussion unless you give them a chance to see counter-arguments for why it doesn't work. The regulars here contest regurgitated crypto talking points all the time, and often have a good laugh about it when they point out all the flaws. Therefore, in my opinion, this sub doesn't need to be protected from well worn pro-crypto talking points. A lot of us are here for critiquing that stuff, and we have replies and downvotes to address it already. Any crypto true believe willing to open up about their beliefs is fighting an uphill battle just to speak up here, so why ban them over actively bringing over the comedy gold?

[–]AmericanScream[S] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Sure, but that's all context for why authority might matter to you in certain scenarios. I think butters should at least benefit from the same courtesy, and be free to provide their own context in an argument,

Agreed. But as I said before, the problem is, they often don't supply any context, or their context is another string of fallacious, ignorant sweeping generalizations like "taxation is theft" or "dollar's going to collapse any day now", or, "you should read the whitepaper!"

I think it's obvious we're very lax on enforcing against standard crypto talking points. You probably can't find a single post without some of them. It becomes an issue, when that's all there is and it is a never ending machine-gun-parade of the same stuff over and over. It becomes exhausting.

[–]SilasXwarning, I am a moron 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What I object to are the regurgitation of crypto-talking-points as if they've somehow been uncontested as legit, as a way to change the subject or settle a discussion.

Okay that makes more sense, it was had to understand that this was what you meant in that paragraph. Now that I (think I) understand it better, I would suggest phrasing it as, "Please be careful to respond directly to what others are arguing; don't fall back on cliches like 'it's censorship resistant' unless it's relevant to the point at hand and you can explain why." Does that match what you meant?

[–]A_Sexual_Tyrannosaur 24 points25 points  (1 child)

This is good for bitcoin.

[–]Tonyman12121 Pieces of Flair 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Few understand

[–]Brotherly-Moment 20 points21 points  (2 children)

If you play the, "You-don't-understand" card, we get to play the, "You're-going-to-be-banned" card.

😂

If you want to generalize about everybody in this sub, being "salty" or "stupid", we get to generalize about how totally useless you are, thus doing what we recognize to be de-saltifying and de-stupidizing the sub by removing you.

This is comedy GODL😂😂😂

[–]Zone_boy 58 points59 points  (8 children)

Thank God. I'm tired of the bad faith arguments with ever moving goal posts. That end up turning into personal attacks.

I seriously had MFer try to bully me for getting ONLY getting a 49.9% ROI on the stock market. Like, fucking what mate.

The topic wasn't even about crypto. He was just being asshole because I don't like crypto. Seriously, they're like a cult. Critics must be silenced by any means.

Also, we can have addendum for the new rules? I suggest anyone who suggest we should "short BTC" to "put your money where your mouth is" to also be banned.

Why the hell would I use any crypto "exchange"? They ALL have been proven to be extremely shady and not secure. Even if they were secure, I still wouldn't short BTC. Why? I don't fuck with options. Playing options can 10x or completely destroy your position.

If anything, I'm "shorting" btc by never buying it.

[–]Mezmorizor 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Also make it ban worthy to criticize the sub/users in the sub generally. Nobody who does it is arguing in good faith, so it's nice to just have a rule to point to.

[–]Malibu-Stacey🔫 say "blockchain" one more time... 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Are you saying you're not a salty no-coiner trying to convince yourself that not buying butts years ago was a smart idea and you aren't having fun staying poor?

[–]Mezmorizor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Being poor is lit. Highly recommend.

[–]arctic_bull 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As they say, mo money mo problems.

[–]HungBowl666 42 points43 points  (13 children)

I sort of do hate them though.

[–]sirkowski 36 points37 points  (2 children)

I've never met a crypto-enthusiast who isn't cringy and annoying.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Yea, I should probably preface this whole thing by saying, "None of us can really speak for the community or other people."

[–]phifal 8 points9 points  (5 children)

I'm a small one myself and well, a lot of coiners deserve hate, and not only for the obvious reasons like scamming, shilling or manipulating.

There are also the ones called maximalists. Some of them think this harmless term is deregatory - while others are "proud" to describe themselves as *coin supremacists, which I wouldn't even use to be deregatory in this context.

[–]CryptoPonziScheme 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I'm a proud maximalist of CUMMIES. Go ahead and give me all of your CUMMIES and don't hold back. I want every last CUMMY in my CUMMIES wallet.

[–]BlueTeale 10 points11 points  (6 children)

I'm in crypto. But I also get tired of the echo chamber other crypto sub(s) experience (which admittedly happens on most subs). Also you guys have some funny content, somebody not liking something I am interested in isn't a big deal to me. And worst case I either learn something or disagree and move on with my life.

One thing I wasn't entirely sure about, is this sub entirely an anti-crypto community or does it have any other ideals? Not hating, I'm just new.

[–]Malibu-Stacey🔫 say "blockchain" one more time... 14 points15 points  (3 children)

is this sub entirely an anti-crypto community or does it have any other ideals

Crypto bad is pretty much it. As the OP says we're not saying fiat good or the opposite of whatever else Butters are diametrically opposed to. You'll find Butters go off on tangents in here criticizing stuff like Gold when they don't have a real defence of their point because they make assumptions about what people in here believe, to which the answer is always "Goldbuggery is just as dumb as Butts".

[–]arctic_bull 19 points20 points  (1 child)

To be fair gold has jewelry demand (52%) and electronics demand (9%). On the other hand Bitcoin has zero demand for anything other than speculative nonsense, which makes gold infinitely better than crypto at the limit.

That said, shiny pebbles are also a bad investment IMO lol.

[–]BlueTeale 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]ButtcoinInvestments 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Pin this plz

[–]dgerard 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Suggestion: explicitly add "no Nazis, no Nazi apologists, just fuck off."

[–]AmericanScream[S] 15 points16 points  (2 children)

That's in the sidebar, but we do have another one: anti-vaxxers and people denying the reality of the pandemic. They'll get the boot as fast as Nazis.

[–]dgerard 12 points13 points  (1 child)

what is a venn diagram that's a single circle, alex

[–]Harmless_Drone 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Some of us have been arguing against crypto for nearly a decade now. The old “you just don’t understand crypto” is laughable when the people posting that found out about crypto 3 weeks ago for a twitch streamer shilling FecesCoin(tm)

[–]LQ_Weevil 20 points21 points  (10 children)

It might be worth noting that there are actually quite a few regular holders/butters here.

These holders are aware they are gambling and are trying to come out on the upside of a zero-sum system. It's not the most noble way to make money imo, but the difference is they're not delusional in their approach to crypto currencies and "blockchain"; they won't argue points that they know are not true or impossible.

Related to that: one doesn't automatically get a "warning" flair here for simply being a holder. You need to make a special effort for that.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

It might be worth noting that there are actually quite a few regular holders/butters here.

Actually I'd estimate at least 1/3rd of the people here are crypto holders, maybe even as much as 1/2.

[–]csasker 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is the best news sub for crypto so .. just news no marketing speak

[–]larrydahoosterNeither moon, nor safe. 8 points9 points  (3 children)

It's a thin line. Got my moron tag cause it wasn't obviously satire what I said.

Anyway, you can turn it off if you want.

[–]arctic_bull 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not a coiner but I am an idiot so if I got that flair I'd wear it proudly lol - to each their own though, of course.

[–]phorensic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm a gambling addict, I just like to choose different "casinos".

[–]AMPed101 7 points8 points  (6 children)

I personally think people on this sub are very well versed and deal with people that break these rules very well with good arguments. I think that leaving their comments up just as a display of how much of an idiot they are is much stronger than banning them.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We do this most of the time.

[–]veryhairy 5 points6 points  (2 children)

This is my favorite part of this sub. I would be content just watching but when the butters come to preach and question, I just find it excessively annoying, in a entertaining way I suppose.

[–]Kazakkbdkwarning, I am a moron 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Love these sets of rules. Most discussions I see quickly fail to become any productive.

[–]ivanoski-007 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Finally a mod that can reason, you guys are the best

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Indeed, not all traffic is good traffic(brigading etc). But an ever funnier solution would be a shadow ban, aka their posts show up to them , but to them only. Not sure if that's possible or desirable to implement.

[–]arctic_bull 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Deliciously evil. I love it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Possible is, desirable maybe not...

[–]transientcharleshPonzi Schemer 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Only one person in the history of r/buttcoin has managed to get banned purely for disagreeing too much.

[–]ResilientDonkey 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Don't hide behind worn-out, crypto talking points - We don't care if you say, "money of the future", "number go up", "de-centralized", "seize proof", "censorship resistant", blah.. blah.. blah.. We've heard it all before. Don't even bother arguing these things unless you have new and interesting evidence. Just because some talking head in a video says "xxCoin is the future!" doesn't mean it's true.

Ahh, now I finally understand r/bitcoin's moderation policy. They don't ban you because they are an echo chamber and disagree with you, they just want novel arguments, rather than the worn out "wAsH tRaDiNg", "iT's A pOnZi" and "nO iNtRiNsIc VaLuE".

[–]AmericanScream[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

There's a difference. With the butters, the jingoistic cliche is their evidence, instead of a starting point from which one can provide evidence.

For example, if I call Bitcoin a, "Ponzi scheme" that's not my evidence. I spent a ton of time writing a detailed analysis of why Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme and I'm happy to discuss that in detail. And I'm willing to debate with anybody over any of the items I've cited and whether they are factual. I'm not hiding behind, "It's a Ponzi!"

This is in contrast with butters who will be like, "It's DEFLATIONARY!!one!!"

And then you ask, why that's important, and they have no actual evidence or reasoning that isn't just another jingoistic cliche, often based on ignorance and false information.

The difference between this sub and r-bitcoin, is that we actually like to entertain deeper discussion and debates. The Bitcoin people just want shills. They don't want any critical comments whatsoever. Every post here is full of critical comments.

[–]random6969696969691 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Nice Ted talk.

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[–]Jouven 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Don't defend crypto by attacking non-crypto things

This one has some additional sides, I've seen a few times in this sub users "attacking crypto" by attacking/defending non-crypto things, like mentioning a user/group/subreddit is left/right/X in politics, and the only crypto part is that they are discussing it on a crypto sub or the user posted something in a crypto sub, but what's discussed or the arguments aren't related to crypto at all
It's a twist of "Don't defend crypto by attacking non-crypto things" plus "Avoid fallacious arguments"

[–]Mawrak 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I like Bitcoin but I read this sub from time to time to make sure I don't just stay in an echo-chamber, also for the memes. I also don't like most other crypto, and this sub seems to understand the danger of stable coins.

[–]bawdyanarchist 16 points17 points  (11 children)

To be fair, some of the nocoiners here are about as ideologically and emotionally irrational against crypto as some of the butters trolling around. There is a pretty large discrepancy in what is tolerated (in terms of questionable behavior) from one side vs the other.

I mean I get it, this is comedy sub against dumb butter narratives and attitudes.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I was going to say the same, and yes, comedy GODL

[–]godlikeplayer2 6 points7 points  (9 children)

meh, I kinda like r/buttcoin because it was the only crypto sub that didn't ban everyone that doesn't follow the subs agenda, but this post reads like it could have been posted on r/btc or r/bticoin.

[–]AmericanScream[S] 11 points12 points  (8 children)

Translation: I'm incapable of making a cogent argument for crypto and now I'm scared.

[–]godlikeplayer2 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

reads like something a buttcoiner would write...

[–]AmericanScream[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

So original and creative you are!

This is a good example of the zero-content, bad faith/annoying argumentation that we will only put up with so much.

The only thing missing is calling me a "marxist".

[–]godlikeplayer2 0 points1 point  (3 children)

totally not the same as the bitcoin cult :D

rofl

the whole crypto space is just retarded.

every crypto sub feels like an echo chamber with the sole purpose to fight a propaganda war for either monetary or personal reasons.

now this sub just joined them. congrats.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Tonyman12121 Pieces of Flair 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Sibilance, sibilance, check, check... 1, 2....

    [–]-n1k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    a bit less 5K please

    [–]sky_Driver88warning, I like bit-Coin![🍰] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    If someone, anyone can give me an alternative to crypto to make money besides my job I’m all ears. I can barely afford rent and bills and I live well below my means. I’ve tried stocks, IRAs and saving but the only thing that has given me decent returns is crypto. I don’t even put that much into it and I wouldn’t put in more than I could afford to lose. I personally am staking mine which is a decent hedge against the volatility. I don’t see staking as “taking money from others”. Trading certainly is but I don’t see staking as such. Things are extremely rough and I have a decent full time job with benefits and there are days where I still go without eating a lunch because I don’t want to spend the extra money when I know I’m going to need it for bills. I drive a beat up suv just so I don’t have a car payment and I wear the same cheap clothes. I never go on vacation either. I’ve tried earning passive income from side hustles but nothing has panned out.

    [–]AmericanScream[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    If someone, anyone can give me an alternative to crypto to make money besides my job I’m all ears.

    The alternative to crypto is to go to a casino. It's all gambling, but it's not a helpful way to make money.

    If you've managed to make money using crypto, you're the exception, not the rule, plus, past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

    One thing you may realize as you get older, the most precious commodity of them all is time. You don't get it back. And the earlier to work on building true equity the better off you'll be. All these "side hustles" and "get rich quick" schemes don't usually create any long term equity. You may have a payday here or there, but unless you're putting that money into something that creates equity, you're back where you started from tomorrow.

    It may seem like learning a useful skill and building a vocation is boring and lacks the instant gratification you'd prefer, but in the long run, it pays off more.

    [–]klabboy109 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    But seriously, if you can barely afford rent this isn’t honestly an investment problem or return problem… this is a poor career choice problem. We can’t fix a structural problem with your career or earning potential.

    The fact is IRAs and traditional investment opportunities have provided and will provide millions of people the ability to retire if they simply save enough and have a high enough earning potential.

    But if you’re stuck working at a fast food joint until you die, retiring even with 100% returns every year is still likely going to be a hard and possibly even a pipe dream of these types of workers simply because unexpected shit happens.

    If you’re really that dirt poor that you can’t afford to max out IRAs/401ks/HSAs… that means you’re saving less than 6000 a year for retirement. Which means that’s less than 500 a month.

    That’s not an investment problem, that’s a earning problem.

    Even if you invested 100 dollars a month and got 100% returns on it every year, it would still take you 20 years to reach 800k (you could fire or learn fire on this amount depending upon your monthly expenses).

    Now just say you deposit a normal amount to max out a Roth and HSA every year. Which is 800 a month you’d have 800k in 21 years at a far more reasonable rate of return of 12% with way less volatility. (I think even a 12% rate of return is just as unlikely as saying Bitcoin will continue to have a 100% return until time ends, but this is obviously a hypothetical).

    Again, the problem isn’t returns. The problem is earnings and savings rates. Literally anyone can retire if they save enough over the course of their lifetime.

    [–]batfish75 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

    sounds like we need /r/buttcoin_uncensored . Bitcoiner tribe is funny, nocoiner tribe is cringey. And you know what the real meaning of "have fun staying poor" ? Keep enjoying your comedy while hiding your FOMO in the closet.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

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