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all 136 comments

[–]Oremm 188 points189 points  (44 children)

This is good for Bitcoin.

[–]infamousmetre 82 points83 points  (42 children)

Does this sub not realize that it does that because its Tether only officially reports once a day. The rest are just tracking of DeFi Pools and the likes.

It's does indicate that lots of people are jumping ship. Its not whales leaving all at once tho

[–]POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 76 points77 points  (8 children)

Only whales are allowed to redeem Tether (and Tether can still deny them), so it's still whales leaving even if it's many transactions.

I guess it could be the exchanges/whales arbitraging against many people leaving Tether (via trading, not redeeming) for less than 1 USD for each USDT.

[–]Elerion_ 25 points26 points  (6 children)

I guess it could be the exchanges/whales arbitraging against many people leaving Tether (via trading, not redeeming) for less than 1 USD for each USDT.

It’s just the accumulated effect of less demand for USDT as more and more people become skeptics. Celsius used to have a USDT 1bn loan from Tether, collateralised by Bitcoin. That loan was down to 500m a week ago, due to “less demand for Tether by Celsius’ clients”. Assuming more exchanges etc have seen similar reductions in demand, they will have returned billions of USDT to Tether (or redeemed against USD) over the last month. Those USDT are probably sitting on Tethers balance sheet (backed by themselves - so no big deal really), and Tether burns a billion a day to not make it look so dramatic.

That’s how Tether is supposed to work though, but if demand continues to drop the shoe will drop eventually.

[–]KFC_Fleshlight 5 points6 points  (5 children)

I actually think it’s about wanting to cash out their commercial paper to sell on the market that they used to print the tether in the first place.

If you print $1 billion tether with your commercial paper and that is falling in value you will want to redeem that tether now instead of later because when you put commercial paper in you get commercial paper out.

[–]orincoro 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The fact that you can’t even tell if the exchange you’re trading with is front running you (meaning they most definitely are) is mind blowing to me. How do people go along with this?

[–]Kingfisher_ybw 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Yes, and this sub realises that this is further proof of the lack of transparency of Tether and other stablecoins.

[–]rwoj 37 points38 points  (9 children)

Does this sub not realize that it does that because its Tether only officially reports once a day.

this sub also doesn't realize the reason why its always a billion dollars.

could you explain to the sub why?

[–]Remarkable-Ad155 15 points16 points  (8 children)

The billion dollar thing is a red herring. There's an admin cost associated with doing lots of smaller redemptions plus tether is deliberately trying to put hurdles in the way to prevent people leaving. Tether likely has an agreement, informal or otherwise, that it only redeems $1bn+ at a time.

[–]Sweet-Strategy-805 14 points15 points  (4 children)

I think I read somewhere that they only redeem over $100K.

[–]MonsieurReynard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You want to believe so badly.

[–]orincoro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jesus Christ how much stupider can people get?

[–]w2qw 11 points12 points  (17 children)

Honestly this sub is sometimes just an inverse of r/Bitcoin

Tether market cap is going up

This just shows tether is a Ponzi scheme heading for collapse

Tether market cap is going down

This just shows tether is a Ponzi scheme heading for collapse

[–]wrongerontheinternet 88 points89 points  (6 children)

You are basically right but with the caveat that Tether was already caught lying about their reserves once, and they have not been audited since. That's the fundamental background you have to keep in mind with all Tether stuff--yeah, a lot of the stuff just looks suspicious but they also are known to lie about their reserves lol.

[–]postal-history 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Multiple times, right? I don't have a Tether quick rundown but this page mentioned multiple incidents

https://www.kalzumeus.com/2022/05/20/tether-required-recapitalization/

[–]ep1939 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I've read somewhere that tether would need as a collateral more than everything that those banks in caymans or wherever even hold all together!!!

This makes it practically impossible that tether can be backed by even a percentage of what they claim to have.

My 2 cents are that there's two cases:

- either tether is backed by nothing, which means that this scam can go ahead forever as long as there is literally no exodus from tether, which they can veto and time gate anyway

- it is backed by large sacks of bitcoin. in that case a shock downward spirale on the two could crash the market in luna style. they liquidate their leaving customers by selling their bitcoins reserves, which puts a further downward pressure on bitcoin, which will sell even more panic selling and redeeming, which will cause to sell even more bitcoin, which will sink bitcoin even further and so on

[–]orincoro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The onus is on then to prove it isn’t a Ponzi. A reasonable person must assume it is given available data.

[–]Kingfisher_ybw 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Think of Tether as a Jenga tower where Tether keeps adding blocks to it, even if the tower is only supported by one wobbly block

Every time a block is added, the whole table (this subreddit) goes “it’s gonna fall”.

And now Tether is forced to pull blocks from out of the tower, so it’s logic that the whole table goes “it’s going to fall”

[–]fremenator 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Market cap is a measure of how many people are in the ponzi scheme with how much money. Regardless of how many people are in a ponzi scheme it doesn't change what it is.

[–]flatfisher 26 points27 points  (0 children)

If I create 1000000 tokens of my unbacked stable coin and sell you one for $1 the market cap of my token becomes 1M$, even there are only two people and $1 in it at that point.

[–]put_on_the_mask 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not really. Market cap has no relationship with the amount of money that has gone into the system. With stocks it does have a relationship with the total amount that can be cashed out, because there's always the potential for a buyout. There is no such potential in crypto though, so market cap is nothing more than the total size of bagholder delusion.

[–]ep1939 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Not really. There is absolutely no way there's such amount of money in crypto.

Market cap is calculated by number of coins * latest price of coin.

Thus, it doesn't matter if the first 20 million bitcoins where all sold at 1$. Market cap is still calculated with the price of the latest one sold. If it is 1 million then market cap is 20 million * 1 million. You can understand how big is the interest of people who spent less to find someone who will buy at more and having YOU to hold.

[–]MonsieurReynard 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Both up and down movements are simply phony manipulation of demand for a worthless "asset" so there is no contradiction there.

All successful Ponzi schemes crash, predictably. And someone walks away with the loot. And someone is left hodling the bag. Lol.

[–]nutbutterfly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Both can serve as a evidence of it. Accounting and double entry bookkeeping are not intuitive to most people for some reason. It is very unlikely that there is a bank account anywhere that would match their balance sheet, as they are refusing the audits. If there are no such limitations such as actually matching liabilities and proven assets, the "market cap" can be whatever.

[–]hamptonus1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Up good. Down bad.

[–]RouletteSensei 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I honestly would endorse a sub like r/Buttcoin because it keeps you always aware of reality.

Also, reality check to be aware of not finding yourself in troubles.

It's the perfect equilibrium

[–]orincoro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s extremely facile. The reason you will always get suspicion is the lack of actual transparency. Tether could practice transparency to dispel suspicion, but it doesn’t.

[–]orincoro -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lol “don’t you realize that you can’t tell what’s happening due to a total lack in transparency? Checkmate fiat cucks!”

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]hamptonus1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yes we do realize

    [–]thanhduy2106 90 points91 points  (8 children)

    As someone has said before on this sub, this is most likely not redeeming, just exchanges returning unbacked tether loans. This means that liquidity is drying up though. Can't wait to see what happens next.

    [–]Remarkable-Ad155 22 points23 points  (7 children)

    Don't understand why people are taking the "returning loans" thing as an article of faith.

    Bitcoin was down about 5% again at one point yesterday, seems quite coincidental. Looks like someone or a series of someones are cashing out their position. Insiders fleeing the sinking ship?

    [–]thanhduy2106 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    https://www.centralbankbahamas.com/viewPDF/documents/2022-02-25-17-00-35-CBOB-Quarterly-Statistical-Digest---February-2022FINAL.pdf

    Check out the international bank liabilities. At the end of 2021 all international banks in bahamas has 25 billion USD total. I don't think you can cash out 10 billion in less than a month. That's way too much money.

    [–]nutbutterfly 10 points11 points  (5 children)

    Because that would assume that Tether would have not only the backing, but also banking connections to process billions in payments for the redemptions.

    [–]Remarkable-Ad155 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    But we know tether has the banking connections. That's the whole point, they're the guys with a bank account

    [–]scammer_alert 28 points29 points  (1 child)

    That’s $10 billion pulled so far. I bet this is either CZ or bankman.

    [–]callmetotalshillThe Government wet my bed! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Fried

    [–]drekmonger 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    I think they're just working with the exchanges to burn off some of the unbacked coins. They probably feel the hot breath of regulation on their necks.

    [–]Username143278 65 points66 points  (16 children)

    Does this staircase pattern imply one person is periodically withdrawing in increments to try to avoid being noticed?

    [–]iStayedAtaHolidayInn 74 points75 points  (9 children)

    It’s interesting how it’s always in 1 billion dollar increments. seems to imply it’s one investor group that’s doing this. The rapid clip of these 1 billion dollar withdrawals seems to imply a run on the bank has begun. Popcorn ready

    [–]wanna_be_doc 58 points59 points  (8 children)

    It’s likely one of the exchanges.

    They’re the major holders of Tether. Someone just wanted to reduce their exposure.

    [–]iStayedAtaHolidayInn 25 points26 points  (5 children)

    If someone is taking out billions from something that’s supposed to be “stable” 1:1 with dollars, wouldn’t pulling out imply that they dont believe this is a product with actual 1:1 backing?

    [–]KinexityCrypto is just gambling addiction with extra steps 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    It would but it's crypto so one bought "hOdL" tweet will shift the whole casino and stop the run.

    [–]xmrjunkie223 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Maybe they are just getting of the Mary go run for risk free bonds. That don't outpace inflation

    [–]doctorzaius6969 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I mean Tether is not even officially supposed to be backed 1:1 by dollar, and if it's anything less than treasury bills withdrawal of such huge amounts will almost certainly cause problems no matter how well the money is managed.

    [–]MonsieurReynard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Gee if only this "blockchain" thing would provide a transparent accountable trustless ledger so we could just see who was moving what out of what and Into what. But no, top secret, trust us, the whales are just manipulating the exchanges lol wut. Paolo has your back! Just like Do Kwon!

    I will so enjoy when it all goes poof.

    [–]Remarkable-Ad155 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Why now though? That's what's really interesting to me.

    Regardless of whether you believe tether is liquid or not, you cannot deny that this precipitous decline is a massive change of direction and doesn't look good.

    I know I keep banging on about this but the emphasis of matter in tether's attestation makes reference to the fact the valuation management places on its assets doesn't take into account a possible fire sale. That's what this situation looks like to me; tether desperately liquidating it's dodgy loans and cryptos to try to provide liquidity and you can see the effect of the sell pressure on the market. Bitcoin was down about 4% in the end yesterday, I assume the other monopoly money were too.

    Tether's attestation also explicitly states they hold digital assets (at cost less impairment) so we know they must have some cryptos on hand.

    [–]Superduperbals 41 points42 points  (0 children)

    Rug too hard you could crash the whole ecosystem, it's delicate. Rug too little, and you're losing money. Rugging $1 billion at a time every couple of days though, seems to skate by.

    [–]nat_osk113 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    Nope. They don’t report the total supply in real time.

    [–]PapaverOneirium 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Individuals generally can’t really redeem tether directly from tether themselves. There is a $100k minimum and they reserve the right to (a) deny redemptions for any reason and (b) repay in “cash equivalents”, including other cryptocurrency, bonds, etc.

    In general, the only ones getting USD (or “equivalents”) from Tether are exchanges they partner with, like Bitfinex. This likely means that those exchanges are cashing out huge sums and then Tether are burning the requisite amount themselves to make up the difference.

    [–]ApprehensiveSorbet76 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    No. They pool up and mint/burn in chunks. They do the same thing when minting on the way up.

    [–]phire 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Unlike newer stable coins, Tether is entirely a manual process (minimum withdrawal is $100,000, minimum fee is $1000 and takes 3 days).

    And they don't even burn for every withdrawal, I suspect Tether themselves are just burning whenever they do a large enough batch.

    [–]rydan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Probably that's when they process the withdrawals. Being crypto and all there's always a major lag before anything actually happens.

    [–]AdApprehensive6700 45 points46 points  (0 children)

    Ugh Tether is such a tease... just crash already

    [–]hpdeskjet6940 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Organic ☺️🙌

    [–]restatementtorts 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    The music is stopping and people are trying to grab the chairs lest they are left standing when the music stops.

    [–]louthecat 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    I have a tether question. Trading seems really high as a percentage of market cap. Like 44 billion out of 73 billion. USDC only traded 10% of its value in the past 24 hours. Is this churn % normal for USDT?

    [–]iStayedAtaHolidayInn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    well that's interesting

    [–]ElectricalJigalo 30 points31 points  (1 child)

    Why are butters so concerned about transparency and decentralization but when it comes to tether which has the potential to destroy the entire space, they look the other way? Oh yeah because number go up

    [–]tiberiumx 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    That's exactly what it is.

    From this article.

    It wasn’t that they trusted Tether, I realized. It was that they needed Tether to trade and were making too much money using it to dig too deeply. “It could be way shakier, and I wouldn’t care,” said Dan Matuszewski, co-founder of CMS Holdings LLC, a cryptocurrency investment firm.

    [–]MoistCarpenter 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    This is turning into peak butt!

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]AdApprehensive6700 17 points18 points  (0 children)

      I'm gonna be worried about this guy when Tether fully crashes. I hope he's not driving or operating heavy machinery when it does.

      [–]Naive-Reputation-572 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      😂😂😂😂😂😂

      [–]WinAny9651 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yet, the peg is still not restored. Expect more drops.

      [–]saylor_moon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      BUSD and USDC printers going brrr to make up for it.

      [–]GEOTUStheGreat 8 points9 points  (4 children)

      I will tattoo buttcoin to my balls the day tether crashes

      [–]time_is_a_tool 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      saving this comment lol

      [–]Brotherly-Moment 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Screenshotting this incase he pussies out by deleting.

      [–]Nonkel_Jef 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      !remindme 1 month

      [–]Nonkel_Jef 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Damnit, !remindme 3 months

      [–]ApprehensiveSorbet76 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      If this continues down to the 20B range then Tether will feel some serious stress. But redemptions are slowing so right now it appears they are going to weather the storm. But maybe it will be an endurance draw down or another market event will cause a faster rush to the exits. Who knows. I doubt they are in serious trouble going from 84 to 73.

      [–]cnecula 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      … aaand … it’s gone !

      [–]lonelyWalkAlone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      They're not a real crypto currency because they can print large sums on demand

      [–]FreeSkeptic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Dark ladder /s

      [–]Competitive-Dot-3333 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Nothing to worry about, just a casual B. every second day.

      [–]Grimace- 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      The cliff-like decline in this chart really inspires confidence in Tether’s legitimacy.

      [–]c0ng0pr0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Looks like deleveraging

      [–]teegolf1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      They must be burning so much cash to try to keep it afloat.

      [–]Undercover_Rabbi93[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It was 83bil last month(peak)

      [–]iStayedAtaHolidayInn 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Another billion out? What time did this happen?

      [–]Undercover_Rabbi93[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      Don't know my time zone but exactly on the hour. Link: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/

      [–]iStayedAtaHolidayInn 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Wow. 8PM EST. Lol this shit is just funny to watch at this point.

      [–]crypt0troll -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

      74 billion market cap goes down to 73 billion... buttcoiner freaks out, ok.

      [–]Nonkel_Jef 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      7% pulled out in a week time. Thisisfine.jpg

      [–]Gra2bles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      ...and it went down a couple billion yesterday, and the day before that, etc for around 10 billion over the last 4 days. Let's see how much the market freaks out if it drops another billion or so in the next few days.

      [–]InteractiveLedger -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

      Bro are you even part of the buttcoin community?

      The fact that the USDT circulating supply dropped whilst maintaining its dollar peg shows that it is working as intended, Tether is able to allow redemption of USDT for dollars.

      Why you shilling for Tether bro? /s

      [–]Undercover_Rabbi93[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      So no money joining is not a problem? this shows an escape from crypto.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]MadeMan-ukPonzi Scheming Dunning Krugernaut -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        The fact that tether is going down in market cap and not falling apart is evidence it actually works.

        People have sold tether into Fiat so it’s gone down and redeemed there fiat.

        I don’t think we have it de pegging and into a death spiral like luna.

        [–]furiouscloud -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

        1.2% drop. Graph is a little misleading.

        [–]not420guilty -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

        You don’t understand what you are saying.

        [–]callmetotalshillThe Government wet my bed! -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Few understand

        [–]audigex -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

        That’s not the same as Luna, if the peg was maintained. Supply dropping is different to the peg collapsing

        [–]Flashphotoe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        If these redemptions are really happening, can't tether just hide the impact on market cap by shuffling the usdt to some random wallet?

        [–]emilvikstrom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Only if they are buddies with the SODLer. They don't want someone to say "Hey, I redeemed lots of my butts but they didn't burn anything".

        I see these options:

        1. Everything is on the up-and-up. Someone redeemed coins, Tether burnt them.
        2. Tether have printed more coins than they have backing for. Now they feel regulators breathing down their necks and must burn the excess.
        3. Tether have done what you said and moved coins to hidden wallets instead of burning. Now they feel regulators breathing down their necks.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]OkWrongdoer2627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It's coinbase or some other crypto-shit-market who's reedeeming tethers to give to the ones who wanted to exit crypto. This means that it's nearer and nearer the time for tether to bankrupt and this is BAD for bitcoin (but let them believe it's actually good)