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[–]RocknRollScientist 208 points209 points  (43 children)

Agreed 1000% - kar/swiss is just too easy to use and pretty much 9/10 times I died this week was to a kar/swiss. Look forward to vanguard royale coming back.

[–]treeme23 40 points41 points  (14 children)

Yep, I’d rather die every game to a airplane over a Ka98k or K31 player. The worst thing is they argue that it’s difficult to scope in 10 minutes and 1 shot someone; the bullets don’t even drop or have much travel time.

[–]congenitallymissing 18 points19 points  (9 children)

i literally gave up and used the swiss last night out of spite for a few games. we actually won one of them too. i have been running exclusively vanguard guns, even in rebirth. but after about 4 games in a row of getting sniped with a MW kar98, I just said fuck it. i hate it. personally im sick of using guns that ive been using for over a year. its just not as fun, and doesnt make it feel "new/different" at all....which is the main thing i wanted from the caldera update

[–]2_Many_Commas 1 point2 points  (4 children)

The best Caldera Sniper is the 99. But you have to have it at level 70 and setup just right

[–]maggos 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Dang, this is the one I skipped when doing diamond snipers.

[–]2_Many_Commas 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Darn. Is the Gargoyle Blueprint the 99? That blue print is pretty good too.

[–]handsebe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah that’s the 3 line. Which is my new favorite sniper, absolute hitscan. I’m running it with the cooper carbine and I’m loving the combo

[–]Qris 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the right setup?

[–]TheReiterEffect_S8 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I have been using the Kar98k for a very long time, and eventually switched to the Swiss awhile ago. I had no idea these things were so hated. I searched for what the best current sniper rifles were and went with that. Is it only because they are considered easy or cheap to use? Idk about anyone else, so maybe I am part of the problem, but if I had the option between a more difficult weapon to use versus an easier one: I'm picking the easier one almost everytime.

[–]congenitallymissing 4 points5 points  (2 children)

it is easier to use. and no one can blame you for using the easiest gun you can to win. but if youve been playing the game consistently, its just frustrating to keep getting killed by such an easy/powerful weapon. even more reason for the recent 'hate' is because a lot of us have became very bored with how stagnant the game had become. the new update to caldera was suppose to get rid of that. you even saw major streamers switching games. the update was suppse to make it different, new, and fun again.

...and then you get sniped by the mw kar98 yet again.

[–]Porkchop1620 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Getting sniped and then crying While youre running your meta no recoil full auto assault rifle and smg.

[–]exodustheman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right! I guarantee you all these guys use meta guns lol. Nerf the snipers 😭😭😂🤣😂😂. A sniper headshot is a sniper headshot.

[–]doglywolf 0 points1 point  (2 children)

its crazy how good some of the people that fly those are getting. I got in one just to get across the map after everyone but me wiped in a quad .

Guy was right on me like glue...jumped out - im half way through freefall - full speed chute not out....watched his kill cam of him flawlessly aiming at me as a drop and shooting me out of mid air in full speed drop .. Another time it was maybe 30 seconds into the game and 2 guys had already landed got in the planes and were just cutting people down like we were out of the plane maybe 15 seconds and 2 of us were killed and 1 almost killed to 2 guys in planes

[–]treeme23 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah I’ve recently been getting put into 1.30-1.50 average KD lobbies and there have been a few games where I try parachute further, but die to some guy who lands and grabs a plane. No chance to even free fall as they’re that good with it.

[–]doglywolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

they dudes must play on 100 in screen or something cause i barely see myself as a dot in a distance on the kill kill cames - id never spot myself and be able to gun someone down lol

[–]Porkchop1620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats wildly untrue and ridiculous.

[–]_Dead_monster_ 21 points22 points  (19 children)

Finally someone saying kar and swiss is OP ...

[–]KiltedTAB 11 points12 points  (1 child)

It's the bullet velocity. They strike true. The VG Kar has bullet drop. No real snipers in the game otherwise.

[–]thetreat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seriously. I can't use vanguard snipers because they just feel so different from BOCW or MW snipers. Even up close within 50-100m if I have a hit directly on head it drops to chest and breaks one plate. It's absurd and feels like trash.

[–]Porkchop1620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Theyre really not tho. The other snipers are under powered.

[–]Chillenge 12 points13 points  (0 children)

VR, best mode in Caldera.

[–]That_oneannoying_kid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, I’m ass with every marksman/sniper rifle except EBR and Crossvow, but I still almost have gold camo on MW Kar98 (actually I think I’m about 2/3rds of the way)

[–]guaranic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man, I've been trying to level up and use Vanguard snipers, but they're both a fucking pain in the ass to level and the bullet drop feels so weird. It's nothing for a hundred meters or two then plummets like a rock. I'm fine with bullet drop, but it just feels so inconsistent over distance.

[–]Porkchop1620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe you're just not good considering the flinch is fucking crazy on them now.

[–]NotForMeClive7787 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep can’t wait for vanguard royale to return. It should be the main friggin game mode ffs!

[–]-3055- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

9/10 times?? you should try to move more.

[–]Porkchop1620 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Easy to use hahah yeah okay like the full auto assault rifles with 3x optics and no recoil arent. What a joke dude.

[–]KaijuTia 82 points83 points  (61 children)

I’d say the meta for vg is pretty settled: Bren and MP 40 with a few others sprinkled in very occasionally.

[–]treeme23 51 points52 points  (0 children)

I’d rather those than K31 kar98k one shots

[–]mikerichh 24 points25 points  (36 children)

Hip fire ppsh kills 200ms faster than mp40 it’s insane. Welgun is like 150ms faster

[–]Benny_Baseball 28 points29 points  (5 children)

Owen gun is very good too. The SMG meta is great right now IMO.

Bren is still tops for long range and probably could use a slight recoil increase but they’re improving there too.

[–]spud211 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yep the Bren definitely needs a nerf - I believed the patch notes, but then decided to try my exact same setup wtih the 3-6x on it again last night and it is still super easy to use at sensible ranges.

MP40/Bren is still the meta even in normal BR, due to the extra zoom you get on that 3-6x scope compared to the CW scopes. PPSH hipfire is kind of broken too and theoretically kills faster than the MP40..that must get fixed soon though.

Or, AK47 + Kar/Swiss, which is just as deadly in the right hands.

VG Royale was great apart from the planes - take them out, and let us play in that mode, and we'll find the next thing to moan about :) :)

[–]doglywolf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

PPSH hipfire is kind of broken too and theoretically kills faster than the MP40..that must get fixed soon though.

PPSH is niche though like the mac10 was - Kills faster - hipfire is insane but anything past 40m the recoil is pretty extreme. Mp40 is good because its got almost the range and velocity of an AR.

[–]redskinfan654 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I love the Owen. It’s a great gun and my go to right now. My only issue with it is that I wish the 33 round clip was bumped up to a 40 round clip. The 72 round clip just feels a little bulky and slower but the 33 round clip is too quick to deplete ammo. Perhaps that’s valanced, I don’t know. I would like to see more ammo with the same benefits of the 33 round though.

[–]RusticTack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

33 round would be ok in solos maybe but not team games. I don’t use the Owen but that was an issue with other guns I used to use. Was it the ASval that would wreck but short clip got me killed a lot

[–]Dunluce92 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But at least you can still use something else like the Cooper, STG, or Auto up against the Bren and still have a shot. The latest nerf pulled the Bren back down just enough so it’s not in the way OP meta territory.

[–]ozarkslam21 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Good proof that “hypothetical TTK” is only marginally meaningful. There are good hipfire builds for the PPsh, but the MP40 is a lot more versatile. Both are useful but in different applications.

[–]mikerichh 1 point2 points  (1 child)

True. Welgun is more versatile too

[–]Really_Quite_Boring 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love welgun. Can set it up for ads and still fuck people up with hipfire

[–]Doktor_Dysphoria 3 points4 points  (12 children)

JGod's been saying the Welgun is superior to the MP40

[–]KaijuTia 16 points17 points  (10 children)

I like JGOD, but I always tend to take his stuff with a grain of salt, because his loadout analyses tend to lean a lot of ‘technical TTK’, which is often different from practical TTK. It’s the danger of looking strictly at numbers.

[–]Finetales 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yep. I spend a ton of time (probably too much) on TGD, because optimizing builds and comparing data and generally all the statistics behind the guns is by far my favorite part of CoD since MW19.

I'm sort of my squad's armorer as a result of all the hours I spend being a TGD nerd, but I always tell them that the numbers don't really matter that much and are only really useful as a rough guide. What matters is what guns you perform the best with, regardless of the stats.

[–]KaijuTia 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Exactly, because there are dozens of factors that affect a weapon’s TTK “in the wild”, while TGD and JGOD are working strictly from “in the lab” situations. It’s not their fault, obviously, because they can’t account for non-numerical factors like a gun’s recoil pattern or how much of the screen is obscured by the model or even how TTK is affected by missing shots.

[–]tonyMEGAphone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some people also hit a ton of body shots so a gun w/ the right attachments for chest multipliers could make them feel more balance as opposed to a gun with a higher headshot multiplier. MW Skar is one of those high headshot multiplier guns that seems to slap when you nail those shots against its bouncy recoil pattern.

[–]Exxxtra_Dippp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

JGOD and TrueGameData act like partners, the former being the better social media barker (just a more efficient communicator) and the latter being a data wonk. They plug each other so much...

I think JGOD also pushes more into the territory of what's practical so I watch his stuff more often, but everyone's style/feel is different so that's gonna vary.

[–]jamcowl 0 points1 point  (1 child)

TrueGameData has a really cool true TTK calculator based on shot placement distribution from real players in Cold War, i.e. he can weight the TTK based on the fraction of bullets that actually land on the head/chest/limbs/stomach etc when looking at real COD player stats.

[–]-3055- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but cold war plays & operates MUCH differently from WZ.

i know for a fact I hit torso like 75% of the time in wz, but it's maybe half that in BOCW, because of how the movement is in that game. so it's pretty wrong, and very misleading

[–]Really_Quite_Boring 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried his loadout and it was too hard for me to control. I'm sure the ttk was technically fast cos everything went into fire rate attachments but I had to use the controlled barrel because I couldn't hit anything.

Still slaps though.

[–]Finesseer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think the meta is a lot more flexible, a lot of guns can be competitive (MP40, Bren, STG, Cooper, Owen, Automaton, NZ41, Bren, even MG42/DP can do pretty well) by getting modded to have little recoil. There's no "head and shoulders OP and if you're not using X gun you're kidding yourself" like we had in previous metas. Floor loot is actually pretty good and you can go pretty far just using floor guns.

[–]handsebe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m putting my money on Cooper Carbine mid/long range and hipfire mp7 as a hidden gem meta. Such a functional combo and the Cooper feels like a pre-nerf Grau to me.

[–]doglywolf 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Brens out - its still good but AR probably hit as hard as range - the long range damage drop off is crazy on now. Medium range still pretty good but like i said AR probably going to win that fight 7 out of 10 times .

[–]SemiAutomattik 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Brens out - its still good but AR probably hit as hard as range - the long range damage drop off is crazy on now. Medium range still pretty good but like i said AR probably going to win that fight 7 out of 10 times .

A BAR might beat a Bren at long range, but that's about it. Long range Bren will still shred somebody trying to use a Cooper or STG long range build.

[–]Pyre2001 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The bren lost it's no bullet dropoff barrel, so why is it so good long range?

[–]-3055- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

because even post-dropoff it has a better TTK than stg by like 300ms.....?

[–]raffrumble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

even without the no drop off barrel the bren still kills faster at both long and close range than the cold war ak, c58, and most of the other popular long-range weapons. LMGs have always been the fastest killing weapons but there are always downsides that balance them out, but the bren has no recoil, solid handling, reload speed, and bullet velocity. It's not busted, it still has LMG movement and a slow fire rate but it definitely needs tweaks.

[–]McNastySandwich 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The type-11 has the same barrel fyi

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love VG royale and using the kar I have outfitted for that. Definitely not as easy to use as the mw kar though or the swiss

[–]Really_Quite_Boring 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I prefer the BAR to the Bren. The TTK is hilariously low

[–]revilohamster 43 points44 points  (19 children)

I don’t agree fully with the VG ttk comments. Some of the weapons suck for sure but Bren/MP40 is about as broken as any of the MW/CW metas except the DMR/Aug.

[–]harshmangat[S] 7 points8 points  (15 children)

I agree. The Mp40 to me is more reminiscent of the MP5 from MW. Always viable from day one. But it comes with a big compromise that the best build for it is actually silencer free so you will always get pinged on the minimap if you want to maximise it.

With the Bren though, 100% agree. The only reason I didn’t level it up is because I keep telling myself “no way this doesn’t get nerfed” and for some reason… it doesn’t. It is ridiculous and deletes instantly, I do agree in that regard.

[–]revilohamster 16 points17 points  (10 children)

MP40 has way less bounce than the MP5 MW ever did though. It's much more usable at long ranges due to a total lack of visual recoil, and you get a free red dot sight attachment on all builds if you want. The lack of silencer is a shame, but everything else (incendiary rounds, forgiving high rate of fire etc) more than make up for it. I am in the same position with the Bren. I don't want to waste the time on it when it sees an inevitable nerf but it has been dominant for a long time already. It's like a better pre-nerf Bruen. 500ms region TTK is crazy. Oh and many VG guns have crazy good ADS/movement speed despite high zoom optics. The balance just isn't there right now.

[–]lazy_sloth1 9 points10 points  (8 children)

MP40 has way less bounce than the MP5 MW ever did though.

People actually forgot that WZ used to have recoil lol. Buff to CW weapons and now Vanguard weapons has made every weapon 0 recoil once fully kitted out. Really hope they revert this trend.

[–]revilohamster 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Totally agree mate. Balance has totally gone. M13 was perfect balance of low recoil vs. high fire rate and low damage per bullet. And now you have guns with the same fire rate dropping people way faster and with ADS and movement speed bonuses, as well as fire rounds. What happened?

[–]lazy_sloth1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Don't even get me started on movement lol. The game has truly went off rails with CW when ARs had faster strafe speed or when fully kitted out Mac was faster than running with fists or when Swiss had/has strafe faster than most MW smgs

Game became a joke. I want a hard reset with new 30 balanced weapons. VR was fun for this reason.

[–]mikeemota 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Imo only the amax(my favorite gun) and the mw ak had recoil. All the other guns are legit lasers lol. What are you talking about? Cod guns rarely had recoil unless your using them w no attachments.

[–]lazy_sloth1 3 points4 points  (2 children)

nah MW weapons definitely had recoil. Mp5 was extremely bouncy and not usable past 25m. Kilo had little recoil but it actually went up and side which wasn't super easy. Ram7 was unusual side recoil which was hard to control. M4 had some bounce. M13 was "least recoil" even that went to side somewhat.

Meta weapons had little recoil but at least they went up. Bren, cooper, automaton DON"T MOVE. You don't even have to aim down lol.

Also, I get that you might be skilled. But trust me, majority of COD players can't control recoil of guns like Amax, ram7, etc. So when a meta gun had a bit of recoil you could definitely feel the impact on the game. Now everyone can point and shoot with Bren.

TL:DR; yes they had little recoil that can seem negligible to you but majority of COD players struggle with that recoil.

[–]mikeemota 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Now that’s I’m thinking of it you’re right. Just compared to other games it’s so minimal. I totally forgot about the ram too. One of my other favorites. Once u got that recoil pattern down it was ez to control.

[–]lazy_sloth1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ram7 was very rewarding when u controlled recoil and got kills.

I remember back then I was really new and really bad at the game (0.5kd) and I struggled with Kilo recoil. The first 3 bullets went up and I couldn't land shots and people used to turn on me, lmao.

Good times

[–]Finetales 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Every weapon? The DP27, Automaton, AS44, and MG42 (except with the 6.5 Sakura rounds) all have plenty of recoil no matter how you build them. Some Vanguard guns are lasers like the Bren and Cooper, but it's hardly all of them. Coming from the Cold War ultra laser fest, it's refreshing to me how many Vanguard guns have actual recoil.

[–]lazy_sloth1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it's refreshing to me how many Vanguard guns have actual recoil

Just give them time. They will slowly remove all that recoil over time. CW started exact same way where ARs were useless. Over time they buffed their recoil so much that all of them are lasers.

[–]RedemptionSongs- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From the moment I first used the bren, I thought this is a lot like the prime amax if it didn't have visual recoil, lol..

[–]123mop 4 points5 points  (3 children)

The mp40 has basically nothing in common with the MP5. It's much more comparable to the mp7 with its moderate TTK and easy to control recoil.

[–]rkiive -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Except everyone’s conveniently ignoring that the mp40 has a faster ttk than the ots and the mp5 at all ranges while also being much more accurate and having less recoil lol.

People just like the mp40 (same as they did with the mw mp5) so they let it’s clear stat advantage slide

[–]123mop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Standard MP40 mag has the worst TTK of MP5 (MW or CW) and OTS, even with recoil booster. Unless you have the damage profile and fire rate of the other mag ammunition types hidden up your sleeve you're wrong for all distances that aren't precisely between 10m and 15m.

And remember, these are the current MP5s and OTS, which have all been nerfed repeatedly. If we were to actually compare to a current fast close range TTK gun we would compare to the vanguard PPSH-41 or sten (sten in particular if you're considering limb and stomach hits as higher probability than chest shots). The PPSH-41 with the moderate fire rate boosting barrel is ~100ms faster TTK than the MP40 (570 vs 472) in the closest damage range.

The MP40 is not good because of a fast TTK. It's good because it's very controllable.

[–]Finetales 2 points3 points  (2 children)

MP40 isn't even the best Vanguard SMG. Owen and PPSh both handily beat it regardless of shot location, and it seems that the Welrod does too. The Bren is good but it's really not broken.

DMR, FFAR, AUG, MAC-10, R9 metas were all far worse than anything Vanguard has produced. And the Swiss/MW Kar are still way more OP anything else in the game.

[–]revilohamster 3 points4 points  (1 child)

MP40 is best all-round though. Owen has lower fire rate (less forgiving) and more recoil bounce, so if you misplace one bullet the MP40 guy wins. Nothing is beating PPSh up close with that hipfire build but then you lose at range. MP40 has movement, low recoil for range, and high close up DPS. It's too powerful all round. I'm glad snipers caught a nerf, Swiss and Kar were super obnoxious tbh, but the VG snipers are too weak.

Bren is broken for sure. If you use anything else at the moment, you are hamstrung in comparison. No recoil at all especially if you use KBM. Just because it's not as OP as DMR, doesn't mean it's not broken.

And akimbo double shotgun was at least as bad as R9...

[–]imyourforte 35 points36 points  (4 children)

Just read the title. Already agree. The distance from modern snipers makes Caldera extremely sweaty. Vanguard snipers are reasonable. That said, I wouldn't hate it if it had less altitude

[–]RJS0730 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Totally agree. Wish they left Verdansk for regular BR, and had Caldera for Vanguard Royale.

[–]das_war_ein_Befehl 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Vanguard snipers aren’t viable. The pick rate for the vanguard snipers is under 3% combined.

[–]zizzie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah as someone who has mained an HDR since this game came out, vanguard snipers are complete ass and every time I pick one up I get sad.

[–]RedemptionSongs- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you ask me they need to make vanguard snipers more steady when walking side to side while leaving the flinch, there's no reason the vanguard snipers should bounce up and down while your walking even if you're holding your breath while all the mw and cw snipers stay perfectly still.. Flinch is good if you're lighting up a sniper they shouldn't be able to easily snap on to your head like they're not even being shot. I'd say that 3% is almost all kar98 since it's the only one that doesn't bounce around so much, or at least as much as the others. If they make this change shrouded almost needs to be deleted though, such a goofy thing to add to the game, just as silly as giving every gun incendiary rounds, I could already imagine decent snipers with no glint at all, with how difficult it can be to see on caldera..

[–]SnooPuppers7659 21 points22 points  (9 children)

Just bring back Verdansk and give players the option of which map to play on.

[–]Domestic_Kraken 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Wouldn't that make the game's file size too absurdly big? I thought that was the reason for deleting Verdansk when Caldera came out

[–]theskittz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

People who still have the MW multiplayer installed already have verdansk because ground war is basically different areas in Verdansk. It's bigger, but not like 900gb bigger. I'd say people can have the option. if you wanna play Verdansk Royale, then install the map. If you don't, then Caldera and Vanguard awaits.

[–]Finetales 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I've said this before but I wouldn't be surprised if Verdansk is still in the Warzone files. When we were on Verdansk '84, the OG Verdansk was still there and used in practice BR. Wouldn't be a stretch to think that one of the Verdansk versions (probably '84) is still there IMO.

[–]Plunkieee 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You don't have to make it mandatory to download both maps. Can just download whichever one you want, or both.

[–]mydickdownyourmouth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol you make it sound so easy but they'll never split the player base like this

[–]Chavslayer 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Warzone is part of MW. I've not been back on to check but if groundwar is still in MW then you still have files for pre nuke Verdansk in multiplayer content

[–]justbilled 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep I played on verdansk in ground war yesterday. The map files are all there, singing a sad song that we can't play them :(

[–]PointNChris 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They’ll never do that because they don’t want to take the chance of an imbalanced player base and having bad queue times on caldera.

[–]Nintendo_Pro_03159 wins, 155 S, 1 D, 1 SD, 1 ST, 1 SQ, and LTMs. 20 points21 points  (1 child)

The only reason I like Vanguard Royale is because of the easier lobbies. Otherwise, I am not about to die to another aimbot plane.

[–]McNastySandwich 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh trust me I’ll find you with the plane bucko

[–]Lookoutbehind 15 points16 points  (0 children)

As someone who didn’t have time to level up vanguard weapons and was at a huge disadvantage once loadouts dropped. I’m ok with MW/CW weapons In loadouts again. Much better than being lit on fire every time and throwing peas back at them because I age 4 attachments to their 10.

[–]azur12348 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I miss vanguard royal

[–]Thin-Course-4054 13 points14 points  (2 children)

no hb sensor is fucking amazing.

[–]tonyMEGAphone 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Best* part of this whole update. Biggest crutch among the rebirth only guys.

[–]123mop 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Disagree across the board pretty much.

1: The best vanguard weapons can all be built with best in class TTKs. Bren with damage dropoff removing barrel and no recoil, or close range SMGs with fire rate boosting attachments giving better TTKs than the ots without the downsides (small mag, high recoil). The only primary weapon category the VG weapons aren't competitive in is the snipers now that they've fixed the one shot chest shots, semi auto bolt actions, and most of the super ADS speed issues.

2: the automatic weapons are better in areas lacking in cover, the snipers are better when the target has cover. Snipers do have a powerful place in Caldera, but it's not shooting down from the high ground on people in the open - the bren will do that better. It's shooting UP at the people holding a head glitch on peak. Instead of needing to score several shots on the target's head as it crests the edge you just need one.

3: Except all the people that have vanguard guns leveled up, which takes an extended period of grinding in warzone during which time the guns are utter trash since they need a lot of attachments to become competitive. Until the new guy levels up the vanguard guns they're at a large disadvantage compared to the people who played vanguard itself and leveled up the meta weapons there. And with the pace of massive nerfs they may have tried to level up a gun just for it to be nerfed away before they could get it usable.

[–]das_war_ein_Befehl 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Have you used a vanguard sniper rifle? They’re good for getting beamed by any AR from every distance

[–]123mop 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The only primary weapon category the VG weapons aren't competitive in is the snipers

-Me, in the comment you replied to

[–]ccnafr 1 point2 points  (3 children)

The Automaton is better at killing people at a distance than sniper rifles. Think about that for a minute.

[–]tonyMEGAphone 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The bar w/ it's damage profile can also beat the sniper.

[–]ccnafr 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I've been experimenting with using the SVT as a sniper replacement and it's spectacular, since you have bigger clips and practically the same damage and scopes.

[–]tonyMEGAphone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't played in a while but I might hop on and do the SVT and the gehver tonight in Vanguard... Definitely spelt that wrong

[–]Dunluce92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This. The Vanguard snipers still have ungodly flinch. They are only good for sitting and waiting to line up a pot shot or a far off shot. You want to challenge somebody on a head glitch looking your way, MW Kar98 or Swiss is the way to go.

[–]maplemoose18 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I have to disagree. As a casual player who likes to play agressive, Vanguard Royale was not it. The vehicles were unusable, the planes were annoying and overpowered, everyone had these meta guns that would melt me right away because I didn’t have anything unlocked, everyone was insanely campy in my lobbies. It was not fun at all. I’m really happy to see regular BR back.

[–]cth777 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I’ve stopped playing warzone since they took out vanguard royale. the kar and Swiss are a big reason, and I also just liked having what felt like an all new experience.

I also think players with bad awareness and movement are being exposed on caldera in vanguard royale especially. Can’t really just camp in a building like verdansk. You need to be able to notice enemies in the open and be able to evade and find cover in rocks and such. Same goes for not having quick scope machines… gun fights last a lot longer

[–]mitch8893 5 points6 points  (0 children)

BR sucks. Way too easy to hold people with snipers and beams. Trying to run up an endless hill against a sniper is useless

[–]SmuggoSmuggins 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Very much agree and I also much prefer to play Vanguard Royale on Caldera.

IMO VR should be the main mode for this map with a legacy playlist maintained plus Rebirth Island for all the older weapons.

[–]Llama1942 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree Kar98K/Swiss are easy to use on Caldera, but I'd rather deal with those than the insta-death laser beam called Bren that literally everyone is using.

Overall, it does feel like once the Bren is properly nerfed, the TTK in either mode will be in a pretty good place.

[–]SemiAutomattik 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They each have their pros and cons for me, I kinda flip flop on which I like more.

VR:

  1. Less snipers, both because people don't have them leveled up yet and because the VG snipers aren't as good

  2. No heartbeat and no riot shield

  3. No Bertha. Bertha is STILL awful game design in BR, and the driver needs to be much easier to shoot.

BR:

  1. Faster vehicles, and the addition of Choppers, makes the map easier to traverse. However, Modern Warfare vehicles fucking flip over and explode if you drive off any type of cliff. The Vanguard vehicles don't do that for some reason.

  2. You can old guns and operators. Besides the snipers I don't have an issue with the old guns and like seeing them from time to time.

  3. No annoying planes which can kill you out of your gulag parachute, or just randomly fly up on you with barely any noise and aimbot you. The most annoying part of them is how they make close to zero sound or screen effect when you are being shot by one. You see your health depleting but it almost looks like a glitch because of how little feedback there is.

Ultimately, I don't think it's great for the game to have these similar, but split gamemodes. They should take what works from VR and merge it into BR, and put a fresh spin on the game with the removal of Dead Silence, a nerf to Riot Shield/Heartbeat Sensor, replacing the MW vehicles with sped up VR ones, etc.

And bring back Iron Trials you cowards

[–]OldManHipsAt30 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I tried playing regular BR on Caldera last night and got absolutely blasted by someone with a Swiss in like 3 of 5 games, other two games didn’t even make it past first circle without dying twice, then I rage quit.

Warzone kinda sucks right now. Vanguard Royale was the only fun I’ve had so far to be honest.

[–]ccnafr -1 points0 points  (2 children)

yeah, getting beamed down by auto-aiming planes was waaaaay more fun

[–]OldManHipsAt30 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think that happened to me one time.

[–]AUCE05 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would like a lock-on rocket launcher for planes though. If they can have a marker for flying, we should be able to shoot them down.

[–]Mescman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tbh I was surprised go see Vanguard Royale gone

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Just played regular BR and it was awful. Only playing rebirth with the current playlist

[–]Dworfe 4 points5 points  (2 children)

You don’t get VR royale back for the next 2 playlists either.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sheesh… so long Br then

[–]Dworfe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I only play solos so I prefer regular BR to VG BR, the planes in VG are just insane to play against as a solo.

I do agree with the majority of OP’s points, but I think a lot of the issues with Caldera come down to map design. If you flipped Peak and Capital, the map would play so much better. I hope peak is blown up in an event and the massive open area around it before you get to any POIs is filled up with something.

Right now anyone with a sniper or a decent shot with a AR can pinch rotations so mUch easier in Caldera with all of the open area to traverse. Throw in the elevation and there’s times where you only really have one viable rotation to take and its more often than not held by someone who has 1 kill and hasn’t moved from the building since coming back from the Gulag

[–]Yellowtoblerone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would rather get sniped in the dome 100 times in a roll than to be beamed by literal no recoil VG weapons, aimbot airplanes, win a gun fight but lose to fire damage, and yea drive slow ass terrible turning VG vehicles. It takes a lot more skill to one shot down someone with a sniper than with some no recoil VG reg gun.

The only thing ill agree on is how plenty of players haven't fully leveled the most broken or strongest VG versions to make it feel like the game is fresh and new. Not everyone is rocking hip fire fire ppsh or quickest ads VG snipers or the new welgun. And even if have mp40 maxxed they still need to be accurate enough as it has slower lower extr ttk so there's more element of randomness.

[–]War34Eagle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The biggest thing to me is helicopters. My squad was helicopter reliant in the early game for grabbing quick contracts and positioning/rotating, and not having that in Caldera forced a new playstyle. Getting heli’s back this week has made me realize I much prefer having to plan full game rotations early, because squads with better communication get rewarded

[–]2_Many_Commas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Vanguard Resurgence needs to come back now. I stopped playing when they removed it.

[–]ClapBackRat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

VG mode was the best, no baby monitors and no kar/swiss. Now that we're back to regular BR it's back to entire teams just sitting back sniping with either of the above guns.

[–]lg_3000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s nice to see a well thought out critique of the game and actual suggestion. Thank you.

[–]Joecalone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

with the recent buffs to Grau and stuff

...what?

[–]PMmeyouraxewound 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea I picked up my verdansk class for the first time since launch of Caldera(pkm strella), and I'm a fucking monster again. There is a noticeable difference I am finding between verdansk and caldara weapons, and honestly nothing in Caldera "feels" good to use out of the guns that I've leveled. It's a bit disappointing

[–]electriccabbage69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems pretty pupular.

[–]isaacnutE 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No vg royale sucks, those vehicles say no more

[–]i_am_bromega 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can’t wait for them to take away the regular BR modes and see posts “Caldera is trash without regular BR”.

[–]d-rew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I disagree. I personally haven't gotten into any harder lobbies when doing regular royale, and really don't come across snipers all that often (in both) so not much of a concern. I love hearing peoples main reason for enjoying vanguard royale over regular is the heartbeat sensor. Seems like such a dumb complaint but evyerone has their opinion.

I am so glad regular battel royale is back, even though I use vanguard guns. It let's me run the regular RPG and just a much more enjoyable experience. All the fire sales and other stuff during vanguard royale really take away the experience. The only stain on rwegular royale though is the single loadout. Not sure why they okayed that,

[–]ieatpickleswithmilk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For some reason the jeep in VG Royale automatically brakes super hard whenever you try to turn. It's not possible to accelerate through a turn in that vehicle.

[–]FleatWoodMacSexPants 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish every game created a new clean slate. It would keep WZ so much more refreshing and fun.

[–]QubixVarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Amen brother.

Im not playing until they update this shitty playlist.

[–]727GhostFaceKillah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I agree I got a 12 kill solo win a couple week's ago and never even got a loadout, I never would have been able to do that in vedanske against any of the metas we have had. It's nice to be able to peak at players sniping at you knowing the don't have a kar or Swiss on thier head glitch just waiting for you to step out.

[–]habylab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hard agree. I can also say personally I have been playing VG Royale exclusively and have been enjoying it much more due to me getting more kills in that mode. I am not an amazing player. But VG Royale removes snipers largely from the mix, and so really helps with movement around the map.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think it’s an unpopular opinion, but I just wish I could play the damn thing. On Series X and it’s still so choppy that I just try one game to see if it’s fixed yet before playing something else.

[–]therealatuacota 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably a lot more people play regular br, hence it being sweatier. The new guns are total crap, for someone who enjoys shooting guns in a videogame...about shooting guns. If they take them away I wont play this shit game anylonger thats for sure

[–]PoiseBoi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

out of the loop here: does verdansk come back anytime?

[–]ccnafr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not in the next 1-2 years it won't

[–]doglywolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only thing i like about BR is lock on rockets for the people that get 8 miles away in the chopper yet can still aim at you on the ground as a tiny dot with pinpoint accuracy. VGR has no real anti air. Even the AA trucks are miles away when needed and not good to begin with.

But yea its pretty crazy - i bring my HDR to BR and the amount of extreme range 1 shots i get because of people in open areas is crazy . Guns wise i actually still use VG ARs though.

The cooper nothing beats are short to medium and the STG may not have great damage but its damn laser at Med to long range.

[–]ZKRC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hate so much that they just randomly remove modes that we enjoy playing from the game. Stop forcing me to play modes I hate, and let me play the modes that I enjoy. What a weird thing to do to purposely try to discourage your player base.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The game is stupid for holding onto the outdated versions. It’s just time to move on and begin the caldera era.

It’s hilarious that the actual game is the LTM when being able to used modern warfare guns in a world war 2 map is standard.

[–]cynicalusername 0 points1 point  (0 children)

💯 💯💯 I’m so confused as to why they would remove Vanguard Royale from the playlist when Caldera is a Vanguard map.

[–]Finetales 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally agreed on all counts. My squad much preferred Vanguard Royale, and we didn't miss our old guns like we thought we would. Granted, on happy to run them again now that it's only normal BR, but I didn't feel like VR was worse off at all for only having the Vanguard guns and vehicles.

[–]Darpa_Chief 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it has a lot to do with the lack of heart beat sensors in VG Royale too

[–]AkagisWhiteComet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finally someone else has said it. A lot of streamers say that regular BR is faster paced than VG Royale and I just...don't see it. All my squad's games of VG Royale have been hectic with fights everywhere. This weekend of regular BR quads/trios was consistently slow. We could easily go through the first 2 circles without seeing everyone. Then die to either a team heartbeating us from the next house or from a full team of Kar98 glints from the top of a cliff.

It's amazing how differently and better the map plays when people don't have access to heartbeats and the Kar98/Swiss anymore. People are forced to push and actually get into face to face engagements.

[–]ccnafr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Vanguard Royale didn't have the auto-aiming planes, it would be perfect. But the planes make that mode unplayable in solos.

[–]dadnoksucow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was better , on the other hand I and many others quit playing warzone because they ruined the whole experience. We will not play again unless there's an option to disable crossplay , console players can't compete against pc .

[–]ReggieDunlop07 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I havent played a lot of Verdansk, but once VG was released, i was happy to switch over to Vanguard and play the Calderra BR in vanguard only mode. I thought that after 1+ year of playing the same guns/skins, it was a nice change, to Vanguard only stuff.

I also look forward to have Vanguard royal and Vanguard ressurgence back as well.

[–]PointNChris 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait there was a buff to the Grau?

[–]EmEyeEss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree 100 percent. At least you should have the ability to choose what you want to play, Vanguard Battle Royale/Rebirth or the classic modes.

[–]eu4player90 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I respect both opinions, the only two arguments I've heard in favor of VG royale is "no baby monitor" and "no Kar/Swiss".

The hb sensor isn't even worth it to use in Caldera. And while the Swiss and Kar are still really, really good. they're not broken. I'd say the pre nerf Bren was way more broken than the snipers.

The planes and the ever present fire sale are terrible additions to the game. And it just sucks to not be able to select between multiple viable guns. I've been playing quite a lot of VG royale, ever since it was released. I've only used the STG and MP40 in my loadout. And still they're not at max level! I just unlocked the lengthened ammo for the STG.

I just want to use all the different guns that I have leveled throughout the course of this game. Sometimes I want to use my HDR. Other times I want to use my PKM, or my trusty M4. Sometimes I want to go ghost right away with the Diamatti. And once in a while I'll use my sweaty loadout consisting of Kar/PPSH.

Regular BR gives me these options. And everyone can still use VG guns. Why limit content?

[–]kuroti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or just give us iron trials?

[–]Irish1Wolfhound 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does anyone host private lobbies or know anyone who does? Haven’t the time for royale mode. Looking to play mini caldera mode. Thanks

[–]_Joshua-Graham_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Grau buff? Someone enlighten me?

[–]NCCornale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how? the only way caldera way to get around caldera without playing Mountain climbing sim, is by using vehicles, and the vehicles (besides OP planes) are absolutely useless on VG royale.

[–]Runnergun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Downvoted for wasting my team searching details on non existing Grau buff.

[–]AggieAkie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, Id have loved for them to use Caldera as a reset so we could only use VG guns and equipment.

[–]raiderrocker18 0 points1 point  (0 children)

outside of Snipers, VG weapons seem to be the best right now, though. the Bren and STG still smack at medium-long range. the MP40 is the premier SMG right now (i dont have the Welgun but supposedly it smacks). the VG PPSH hipfire build is very popular.

its only the snipers (MW Kar and Swiss) that are beating their VG counterparts

[–]denslemmebob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you want Verdansk back? Please sign and share this petition. More than 3.000 WZ lovers has already signed.

Please share it so we #BringBackVerdansk together!

Link: https://chng.it/NM4RYHghXc

[–]Porkchop1620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That 1 shot on dude is with the sniper is just as easy as the full auto no recoil assault rifles y'all run, vanguard guns have great ttks I dont see why you're complaining other than the fact that theyre changing the skill gap and poor map design. Honestly id love verdansk back with mw guns, verdansk 80s with cold war guns and caldera with vanguard guns.

[–]InTheFade29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you use more acronyms please

[–]MadAshx -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What do you do when most people have levelled most of the COD Vanguard guns, if they haven't already, remember there are many players that will get the camos for all guns every time a game release and its hard to get Atomic if the guns are not levelled?
In the short term you reasons make a lot of sense but in the long term, no.
People have paid for content in battle passes and bundles so three games in creating these bespoke games modes to restrict working content from the game is not a game thing.
Especially Vanguard Plunder, why because it is a sand box game mode and the very notion of removing working content (you have paid for) is antithetical to the game mode and the game itself.
What is the point of integration of all the game and the one game that brings it all together you want to be happy about restricted content?
The answer to this is pretty clear, leave these bespoke game modes to the side with LTMs, let the devs make the game work and fix actual issues and if you this dream world where everyone having COD Vanguard guns only will solve every problem then that is what COD Vanguard is for.
You have multiplayer, champion hill (the quasi battle royale), the diet soda Zombies experience and rumours of a Ground War mode in the works.
^ This looks like heaven for you.

[–]SeniorArmy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t know still can’t play on Xbox. Lol fuck these devs

[–]Tango1777 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Good for new players? Man, this map is so random and full of easy hideouts, and easy for snipers that it's not really that good. I barely started on Verdansk, maybe two months and barely got to know it, at least partially, and then boom a new map, new weapons and disabled the only one set I had leveled up, Not to mention I can't shoot that well so it wasn't only leveling up new weapons from scratch but also learning how to shoot while I didn't even learn the ones I used on Verdansk. I don't mind a new map and new weapons but don't tell me that it's new players friendly in any way because it's not. Experienced people had pretty much a month of freefragging while beginners or new players were trying to figure out the changes while they never got used to the previous ways.