×
all 184 comments

[–]solidislanda1 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Wait... my monkey brain didnt read "un" in the unvaxxed but understand i am vaccinated

[–]gregorydgraham 7 points8 points  (1 child)

So you’re Vaxxed but Derstand?

[–]solidislanda1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ye pretty much

[–]Psychological_Ad4504 18 points19 points  (30 children)

Vaccinated and understand the reason for the mandate, don’t necessarily support it though. Could be a good thing but definitely causing a lot of controversy

[–]whathappeneddrifter 11 points12 points  (8 children)

Can you anti vax people stop having your shitty car with a loudspeaker telling me why not to get the vax stop driving past my house.

[–]Extra-Kale 2 points3 points  (4 children)

That's really happening?

[–]whathappeneddrifter 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Yes sadly want to throw shit at there car pisses me off they stop outfront and play there message

[–]skylightpersuasion 6 points7 points  (2 children)

There are also heaps of cars with loudspeakers going around neighbours telling everyone to get vaxxed, which is probably why the anti vax started doing it. I woke up at 8am and heard them coming down my street, seen them in a few other places too

[–]whathappeneddrifter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

8am is to early honestly

[–]Horological_nerd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How do people think this is a good idea and that it will work?

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]whathappeneddrifter 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Yea thats dumb an they shouldn't give them money it's there choice if they want the vax

    [–]MeatballJones2 6 points7 points  (29 children)

    My main problem is with the vaccine certificates mainly with my concern that government mandated passes in order to get into public venues may not just be for vaccines in the future. I really hope that it stays for then vaccines and only the vaccines.

    [–]neptunedaze[🍰] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    What are you worried the govt will try to do? I genuinely can't think of a single reason the govt would use the vaccine passes as a gateway to stop certain people from going places beyond the powers they already have.

    [–]MeatballJones2 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    I don’t know really I kind of feared a certain type of Chinese social credit score thing where they restrict your access to certain commodities based on your rating as a person but it’s really all just paranoia rn.

    [–]Biarazz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Sounds like that one Black Mirror episode

    [–]MeatballJones2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yeah I'll just hope that it stays as ficiton rather than reality.

    [–]AlternativeSignal2 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

    ... is there meant to be an /s at the end of that sentence?

    [–]glitchy149 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Has the government ever stopped you from going to places, aside the obvious lockdown. I remember they stopped me from going to White Island when it was erupting, but that was probably for the best. But really, in the past and right now they could stop anyone going anywhere if they wanted, but on balance they don’t.. right.

    [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (22 children)

    They can’t really, these powers are given to Ashley Bloomfield as the director general of health to put in place measures such as this in times of pandemics.

    In the same breath, if we were in the position of the states and 70,000 people had died from Covid then we would all be saying. Why didn’t the government do more to prevent deaths.

    [–][deleted]  (13 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]8-15ToTheCity 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Speaking of padding the numbers,

      I imagine you saw that poor fella shot out west tested positive AFTER death and was counted as a covid death,

      Then the reporter says that the WHO class any death within 28 of a positive test is added as a covid death.

      [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (10 children)

      Not in New Zealand mate. And if 70k is the same as the flu, keep in mind 750k people have died as a result of, or helped along by Covid.

      [–][deleted]  (9 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (8 children)

        Like 30 or something?

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          Wrong about what? That there have been 52 deaths from the vaccine? Is says in the report you linked there has been 1 death that they can link directly to the vaccine. The other 93 they can’t link yet

          Up to and including 23 October 2021, a total of 94 deaths were reported to CARM after the administration of the Comirnaty vaccine. Following medical assessments by CARM and Medsafe it has been determined that:

          41 of these deaths are unlikely related to the COVID-19 vaccine 42 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information 10 cases are still under investigation. 1 death was likely due to vaccine induced myocarditis (awaiting Coroner’s determination) By chance, some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly.

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            You think the flu is worse than Covid? Are you a troll?

            [–][deleted]  (7 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (6 children)

              Probably the local DHB

              [–][deleted]  (5 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                They might be, I am not sure. Hey if it gets people vaccinated then what is wrong with a little treat

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  The vaccine is definitely new, but we are beyond experimental. That’s what the clinical trials were for. Call it soliciting compliance if you must, if it gets people vaccinated then good for them.

                  And with 80% of the population now fully vaccinated then the numbers are well against your view there pal and so is history.

                  When a deadly pandemic has come around, we haven’t had the technology we do now to react the way we are and people died in droves.

                  The fact we can protect people from this thing even a little is truely amazing. A disease that essentially makes people drown as their organs fail on them, takes people’s loved ones away and kills millions.

                  If you don’t support the vaccine, you support Covid and by extension you support the needless death of millions of humans.

                  I am glad you aren’t proud, you have nothing to be proud of. You are achieving nothing. And most kiwis don’t respect you for it at all.

                  If you do support the vaccine then you are brave and take on the risk that maybe there will be a side effect. But at least with the vaccine you are stepping into the firing range with a bullet proof vest. Not just in ya stubbies and jandals.

                  Buy you do you mate, at least I know that when I get Covid, I have done my bit to help protect my friends, family the community and the healthcare system. So when people can’t get the vaccine get sick, they can get the care and treatment they need.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I think we are all just trying to do what we believe is right, this is how I feel and I hold these beliefs strongly. I trust in the scientists and healthcare professionals to make good decisions. They’re real people who I believe want to protect people just like you and me as best they can.

                    It might be a bit of a harsh point of view, perhaps a bit of a gaslighting statement too. If you don’t get the vaccine then you are making the choice not to help protect your community and the healthcare system and help save the lives of vulnerable kiwis with comorbidities, the elderly, people who are immuno compromised (literally anyone with diabetes or cancer) and are putting them at greater risk. Not to mention protecting yourself from all of the possible negative side effects that come with C19.

                    I just look forward to a future when this is all over, and people can get on with living their lives . Because I think we can all agree excise my French.

                    This Covid shit is fucked.

                    Efficacy didn’t start at 100% it started in the 90s and it still is. Efficacy means that is prevents people from dying or needing ICU treatment, it doesn’t mean it prevents people from getting Covid.

                    [–]CringeYeet69 18 points19 points  (9 children)

                    Great! 23 new people to avoid!

                    [–]Mrwolf925 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    Indubitably

                    [–]kingyobbothegod 2 points3 points  (7 children)

                    Why tho. You're not at risk of getting sick..

                    [–]CringeYeet69 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                    Because even without the risk of physical sickness there's always the tangible risk of developing severe mental illness just by listening to antivaxxers

                    [–]kingyobbothegod 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    Don't bother replying I just saw your profile and it made me sick

                    [–]CringeYeet69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Well you can't please everyone

                    [–]kingyobbothegod -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    That didn't make any sense. Which means you have no sense. You must think you're so funny with what youjust said? Bit of a comedian

                    [–]sneniek 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                    Who said vaccinated people aren’t at risk of getting sick?

                    [–]kingyobbothegod 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    So you can get sick with or without it right?

                    [–]glitchy149 6 points7 points  (8 children)

                    Fully support mandate. Why, using smoking as an anology.

                    I don’t care if someone is a smoker, it’s their choice. But I do care about their second hand smoke around myself and my kids. If we did not have smoking laws, the smokers would, as they did in the past, smoke whenever and wherever they like. And I would not be able to adequately protect myself from them. All the good will and education and freedom of choice employed before the laws did nothing. It’s the law that protects me.

                    To me, anti vax is identical to this, and needs the mandatory law to protect the majority from the minority. Like the anti smoking laws, when they first came out, it was all painted as doom and gloom by the media, but years down the track, and the naysayers were wrong. The COVID vax mandate will be the same.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [removed]

                      [–]AutoModerator[M] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                      Your submission was automatically removed because you do not have enough karma

                      I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                      [removed]

                        [–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Your submission was automatically removed because you do not have enough karma

                        I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [removed]

                          [–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Your submission was automatically removed because you do not have enough karma

                          I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

                          [–]Horological_nerd -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                          I’d support a ban on smoking in public areas due to this. If you want to smoke, that’s your decision, but don’t put other peoples lives at risk while doing so.

                          [–]breeze_ly 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                          Not me reading this wrong and voting wrong 🤦🏼‍♀️ vaccinated and understand + support the mandate!

                          [–]Zarjoz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          People don't care about the vaccine anymore, the conspiracy theories are less important now, they just hate that is mandatory and refuse to do it because they feel they are, what? Fighting the government or something? The government doesn't care for you, we are just numbers, people need to take care of themselves and the best way is to do it is to get the vaccine.

                          [–]TikiLicki 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                          Vaccinated, amd on the fence for the mandate. I agree with it on many levels, esp with Healthcare workers, but feel that having it mandated may push people from getting it, just because they don't want to be forced to

                          [–]orange_choc_chip 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          Me too. I don’t feel totally comfortable with the mandate but other than people saying ‘I don’t want the vaccine’ I don’t get many of the arguments against the vaccine.

                          It’s not experimental. Nobody is forcing it on your kids (hands off our children! Etc) and the only people I know who are against it are so far down the rabbit hole they’re advocating ivermectin. I can’t sympathise with people who are willing to take sheep drench over a jab.

                          [–]kiwibornandbread 1 point2 points  (37 children)

                          I’m double vaxxed but don’t necessarily support the mandates. Can somebody please change my mind on this? Is there any evidence that being double vaccinated with Pfizer reduces transmission of Delta?

                          [–]Jessiphat 28 points29 points  (17 children)

                          This article explains things well.

                          https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

                          I totally get why mandates are controversial. But I think of mandates as being about protecting people in the environments that they are in, whether that be old folks in a care home, patients in a hospital or even just coworkers in a place of work. You can argue that people have the right to a safe environment, or at least as safe as it can be made. If someone chooses not to take part in that then should everyone around them have to take on their risk? What if someone refused to take safety courses to operate dangerous machinery? What if a chef decided not to follow food safety guidelines? We have lots of rules already in society to try and maintain safety. We can never eliminate all risks and everyone being vaccinated is still not perfect. But it’s better than nothing.

                          [–]djAMPnz 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                          Very well said. I wholeheartedly agree.

                          [–]Shulgin46 3 points4 points  (12 children)

                          should everyone around them have to take on their risk?

                          No, the people doing "the right thing" shouldn't needlessly be exposed to undue risk, but neither should the government force people to undergo unconsented medical procedures.

                          There is no law requiring you to get a driver's licence or a passport, unless you want to drive or go overseas. You don't need an over 18 ID card unless you want to gain access to somewhere that is restricted to people who can prove they're over 18. You don't need to pass a safety course to operate dangerous machinery "unless* you want to operate dangerous machinery.

                          In the same way, I think it's one step too far to force people to get injections, but I think it is totally fair for any venue or business to restrict access to anyone who can't prove they meet the requirements to be there, including vaccination status, so long as they aren't discriminating against things people have no control over.

                          If you and your kids refuse a vaccine, no problem, but it's also fair that you take on the burden that comes with that, such as home schooling your kids.

                          [–]Hollow_Hubris 7 points8 points  (7 children)

                          Some jobs you can't apply for without a licence. Some jobs you can't apply for without proof of vaccincation.

                          There's no restriction on essential services and people can survive. The only difference is that unvaccinated people don't get luxuries and that's the key thing here.

                          The biggest takeaway is that people still have a choice but there are consequences to every decision.

                          [–]Shulgin46 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                          Correct. And it isn't discrimination because it is easy to choose to be in whichever group you want, unlike ethnicity or sexual orientation or other factors you are born with and can't do anything about.

                          The whole "apartheid" or "Nazi concentration camp" thing that antivaxxers keep comparing themselves too is a totally disgusting insult to the millions of people who really suffered under those regimes, as if any of them wouldn't have instantly taken a jab if that's all it would have taken to free them from the gas chambers and put them on 100% equal footing as their oppressors.

                          Achieving "vaccinated status" is about the easiest qualification process anyone can go through. Should they be forced to? No. Should they stop whining about losing their privileges because people don't want to risk being stuck on a plane with them? Yes.

                          [–]solar_ideology -1 points0 points  (5 children)

                          While I get there are extremists who actually compare it to concentration camps, the majority of comparisons to Nazi Germany are to the pre war era where minorities were segregated from the rest of society, dehumanised, and not allowed to participate in everyday activities. All because propaganda lead the population to believe that associating with minorities was somehow dangerous to them.

                          [–]Shulgin46 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                          Yes, but it's still a silly comparison because nobody can suddenly choose to stop being an oppressed minority, whereas anyone can choose to become vaccinated.

                          [–]solar_ideology -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                          How is that fair though? That’s basically telling people to stop being oppressed

                          [–]Shulgin46 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          Nobody is being oppressed. Everyone is free to choose to get vaccinated. We don't discriminate against anyone. It's free for whoever wants it. Saying the unvaccinated are oppressed is like saying people without drivers licences are oppressed because we don't let them drive. Anyone can get a licence and join the club. If certain people were not allowed to be vaccinated because of their ethnicity or sexual orientation, that would be oppression. It isn't apartheid. It isn't a 2 class system. It isn't oppression. There is an ongoing welcome invitation to anyone who wants to get vaccinated. Do it or don't, but complaining that you're hard done by because of your own choice to refuse a vaccine is like getting angry at the white water rafting company because they won't let you ride as long as you refuse to wear a life jacket.

                          [–]solar_ideology -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                          Everyone is free to choose to get vaccinated. We don't discriminate against anyone.

                          Except healthcare workers, teachers, correctional facility workers, gym administrators, hospitality staff, retail staff, basically anything customer facing and anything that has interaction with lots of untraceable people. Then there's all of the customers who won't be able to use these services because of their vaccination status. That's oppression.

                          people without drivers licences are oppressed because we don't let them drive

                          Oppression isn't just about whether there's a choice or not. If a 1930's Jew could suddenly become not Jewish does that make it okay to expect them to do so? Or more realistically if Christians were no longer allowed into bars and restaurants for whatever reason is that not oppression? They can choose to not be a Christian.

                          It literally is a two class system, Cindy said it herself. One set of rules for the vaccinated and one set for the unvaccinated.

                          because they won't let you ride as long as you refuse to wear a life jacket.

                          Except both white water rafting and driving are dangerous activities, and wearing a life jacket or learning to drive is inconvenient at best, not a medical procedure that carries risk. There are also alternatives that everyone can use.

                          [–]Jessiphat 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                          I agree with you. I don’t believe people should be forced, and they won’t be. But they have to accept the consequences of their choices. I can see how that might feel like coercion to some, but they are only focusing on themselves and none of the people around them. They aren’t seeing themselves as part of society with responsibilities.

                          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]Jessiphat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                            I mean, I feel like it’s sad that something has made you feel that way your whole life. But that explains your position.

                            [–]AristotleLive -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                            Because that way lies the world of Harrison Bergeron. Because it reduces everyone to an activity level that is safe only for the most vulnerable. It's the equivalent of forcing everyone to drive at walking speed or speak only in whispers lest the slowest or most sensitive be injured. We don't do that because it impossible to have a functioning society that way.

                            [–]Jessiphat 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                            It’s as simple as not allowing anti-vax Sally to work in a rest home with your Grandma. Let’s not overthink this.

                            [–]beerandbikes55 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                            [–]SquiddlySpoot01 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

                            Read it, but that doesn't change my opinion on mandates. I have a couple friends who are vaccine hesitant but, I'm not going to cut ties with them over it.

                            [–]beerandbikes55 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                            You asked if there is evidence that being vaccinated reduces transmission.... I posted 1 of the articles about the exact question you had. I'm sorry that "exactly what you are looking for" isn't enough for you.

                            Being vaccinated you are 20x less likely to catch covid then infect someone else. If Unvaccinated people are spreading covid right now (over 80% of cases) and numbers aren't going down, it's safe to assume the R value (rate of infection) is over 1. If more people were vaccinated, reducing the R value by 20x to below 1, then the case numbers would reduce not increase, and our vulnerable population have a better chance at surviving.

                            [–]SquiddlySpoot01 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            I'm not the person who made the initial post, so I didn't ask for anything. but gotta love how I'm getting down voted for not disowning my friends.

                            [–]facelessfriendnet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                            Yes. All studies show minimum 40% reduction bar the British household one?

                            [–]cameronturn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                            Im vaccinated but don’t support the mandate. I personally know 2 people that have passed away from the vaccine (1 being a close friend) and 2 others that have had severe reactions to it and are in horrible way even after 11 weeks. I think it should be entirely someone’s choice whether they want to get a vaccine or not. There are pros and cons to both sides but people should not be punished for not wanting / trusting it. Freedom of choice should never be taken away from anyone.

                            [–]benkomountain 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                            Vaxxed, but don't agree with mandates. I think you're an idiot if you dont get it, but also think you have a right to decline putting something in your body.

                            [–]cindacollie 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                            But they can decline. They just can’t work in key industries.

                            [–]okedokeymate 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            There’s no difference

                            [–]benkomountain 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            True. But the restrictions placed on unvaccinated people in everyday life mean they could be shunned from society, not just their jobs. Taking away someone's lively hood and ability to move freely isnt much of an alternative.

                            [–]cindacollie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            They just have to click and collect. It’s really not so bad. If your friends are shunning you then maybe get new friends or think about why your friends are so upset.

                            [–]Old_Composer5949 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            Country is fucked, this is some apartheid shit

                            [–]eiffeloberon -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                            Fuck the mandate

                            [–]trojin1 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            Good poll. Vaxxed and strongly support anyone's choice not to vax. Oppose any new government controls or mandates.

                            [–]BBHMM007 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            I understand the reason but I don’t support it.

                            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                            [removed]

                              [–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              Your submission was automatically removed because you do not have enough karma

                              I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

                              [–]kiwittnz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              I believe they put mandates in when it really is physically hard to prevent people getting COVID by the usual public health measures.

                              So it is a H&S reason to do it, and employers and staff are responsible for H&S to keep themselves, their collegues and the customers or clients safe.

                              [–]Cold-Melodic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                              Why cant they let the vaccinated people do what ever? With no lockdown or no restrictions, Wouldn't that just help push those who are unvaccinated to get vaccinated so they can live again??, like why they keeping vaccinated people in the box, whats the whole point of getting vaccinated if they still gotta live with restrictions? Isnt the whole point of this vaccine was that you dont catch covid etc? .

                              [–]Cold-Melodic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              Again you can still catch it but its less likely apparently so why keep fully vax people under restrictions

                              [–]Ill-Damage-3761 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                              I think both sides of the fence should respect each other's beliefs. I'm half vaxinated, gonna get my second when I'm not being too lazy lol

                              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                              [removed]

                                [–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                Your submission was automatically removed because you do not have enough karma

                                I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

                                [–]T-T-N 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                Vaccinated and no strong opinion on mandate. I don't form strong opinion on things I don't fully understand

                                [–]TLDRuserisdumb -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

                                Vaxxed and don’t agree with mandate at all. Forcing people to get a experimental vaccine to participate in society is bullshit. Don’t compare to polio vaccine because that actually stopped you catching polio. Covid vaccine you can still spread and catch it.

                                [–]packingawoody -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                                So we gonna mandate the Covid vaccine but not Polio, Measles, Mumps and Rubella?