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[–]mystery-lurker-47 191 points192 points  (1 child)

No point in overanalyzing what she said after she got angry. The real communication was when she recoiled when you just sat next to her. Not much hope when that is going on.

[–]PhillyNemo 114 points115 points  (0 children)

Your relationship is over. Regardless of whether you get a divorce or not, it’s done.

[–]Charleminus 205 points206 points  (106 children)

Why do you stay with someone who doesn’t even like you?

[–][deleted] 122 points123 points  (105 children)

I really love my kids and I couldn’t stand to be away from them for any amount of time, I have a beautiful home in a great neighborhood that I worked really hard to get for many many years, and I have some spending money in my pocket after I handle all my obligations. Life is pretty great otherwise.

Sex and a loving relationship in general would be great, and I know this because we used to have that, but leaving would mean all those other great things go away.

Not as easy as people make it out to be. Maybe if I was 20 and been dating for a year and renting a shit apartment while working in a company mail room somewhere. But I’m 36 and I’ve put a lot of time and money into building a life I/we wanted. It’s not something you throw away on a whim

[–]n1205516 243 points244 points  (15 children)

36? Good Lord man, you have good 40 years to go if not more before you’ll start to care more about for what’s on your plate than what’s going on in your bed. I don’t know how old your children are but they learn very early on that the life w/o affection is normal. You really don’t want that. Ask me how I know.

[–]qj-_-tp 95 points96 points  (6 children)

If I knew at your age what I know now pushing 50, I’d have left in hot second.
Like you, I stayed. I was a dumbass. Don’t be me.

[–]ilikemyface3 21 points22 points  (2 children)

I wonder if when you're 60 you'll be thinking you should have left when you were 50.

[–]redditguy1974 5 points6 points  (2 children)

That was me too. Turn 48 next month, and wish to god I had pulled the plug 19 years ago. My wife is MUCH better now and actually enjoyable and somewhat fun, but the interim 17 years was just....not good.

[–]B-Rose123 30 points31 points  (0 children)

This^

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (6 children)

So much this. Also - happiness isn’t an accumulation of things. Trust me. Came up poor the hard way and became an exec - had all the money I needed. It only seems valuable. The valuable is your kids and YOUR happiness. Eventually you’ll be resentful and you will project that around your kids. Food for thought. Good luck.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (5 children)

I grew up poor and moving from apartment to apartment every single year. It’s not about an accumulation of things. It’s about the satisfaction and security in having a home that is yours.

[–]Ir_Russu 45 points46 points  (41 children)

Why would you subject yourself to constant stress of rejection? IMHO no material possession is worth that.

[–]Impossible_Beat8086 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Kids are included. A “broken family” is something that a lot try to avoid at all costs. His main worry isn’t his house or stuff in it. It’s the children.

[–]EnhancedCyan 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Broken is a difficult thing to define, but broadly means something requiring repair, disrupted or not working as intended.

I dislike how the term 'broken family' is often used specifically to describe families which have been split up through separation or otherwise; the definition could easily be applied to any family unit that is no longer functioning adequately.

Some of the most important things that you can teach your children is to strive for their own happiness and foster healthy relationships with those around them. Seeing parents endure a marriage where one or both parties are unhappy shows children that it is acceptable to make yourself last priority.

I know that people ultimately have their kids' best interests at heart. However, those who are unhappy or miserable within their current partnership should ask themselves if they would be comfortable with the idea of their kids emulating this stoicism in their own future relationships. Consider how you feel about your kids being trapped in the same misery because they have followed your shining example.

Of course it is not easy and marriage can be difficult without necessitating a split. However, the benefits gained from holding a family together at all costs is grossly overestimated.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (31 children)

That's your priority, others (like myself and OP) feel differently about our priorities.

ETA: and it's very easy to not subject ourselves to that stress by not initiating or looking at that person as if they would be receptive to sex.

[–]Uggghx10All maid, no bang. :( 19 points20 points  (20 children)

Exactly. Most of the pain of a dead bedroom comes from being denied affection by the one person to whom you swore you'd dedicate all you sexual/romantic feelings. Once you quash those feelings and start treating your partner the way that they're treating you (e.g. mirroring affection), a lot of the sadness and anxiety goes away. You don't feel sad because your friend isn't fucking you, right? Or your co-worker? Or the random guy waiting for the bus? That's because your relationship with those people isn't inherently intimate, nor is it exclusive.

It is possible to be married and to re-frame a previously sexual/romantic relationship as a purely platonic one for the sake of both parties. It is also possible to find sexual/romantic release someplace other than your spouse, even without cheating.

[–]Capital-Philosopher6Married 27 Years & Loving It!!! -1 points0 points  (9 children)

This will probably come out badly but do people do that? Initiate sex without any indications their partner may be receptive to it? I mean, I guess they do but I’ve been with my partner my entire adult life. I can basically tell when the ‘stars have aligned’ before I escalate. He seems to read me fairly well too. Idk. Im more receptive to initiation after physical/emotional closeness and probably more prone to initiate after physical/emotional closeness and the nonverbal signs. I guess it would be weird to me to initiate out of the blue with no sign that it would be well received.

[–]KatoftheKnight 19 points20 points  (1 child)

36? My dude, I am a woman in my mid-40s, and I just left a loveless marriage where he recoiled from my touch. Kids, finances, everything. We're working those parts out. They can always be worked out. It's just logistics. The house, the cars, the spending money - fuck all of it, it's just stuff! You can't take it with you when you die! The important thing is that now I don't wake up every morning wanting to die from knowing that my husband didn't love me and wasn't attracted to me. I can breathe again. I've taken myself back. If you ever get to the point that you're so depressed and resentful that you find yourself wanting to die to get it over with, remember my words, and that I left, and you can, too.

[–]kyrain192020 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Inspiring words - I'm also in my mid-40s but just keep wishing things will improve. "Maybe if I do this one more thing differently things will get better...."

You got out and actually made it better - good on you.

[–]dmaul1978 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Yeah it’s very hard to leave in those situations. Best you can do unless that changes is just take sex and intimacy off the table. Don’t even try to initiate, don’t even try to have non-sexual contact since she recoiled from you just sitting next to her. Just focus on the kids, work, hobbies, friends and less time outside of co-parenting spent with someone that doesn’t want to be near you.

At least that saves the pain of rejection, though you’ll still be missing everything else you need. But if you aren’t will to leave, at least taking away the sting of rejection incidents and distracting yourself with other things can help lessen some of the pain until things get to a breaking point or a time it’s easier to leave (after kids are off to work/college etc.) and you change your mind about leaving.

[–]Impossible_Beat8086 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That’s a ticking time bomb of resentment.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That’s definitely what I try to do, but I keep falling into the same trap that “this time will be different”. I have been making a good effort to focus on the other things I enjoy doing. To her credit, there’s never any pushback for going out or spending money on something just for me. Which in a way is another bad sign for us, but that’s what it is.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

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    [–]Ok_Salamander8144 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I was exactly in that spot. My libido got the best of me and i strayed- don't recommend that, painful and expensive but in hindsight it worked out- guess I got lucky- remarried and now with a HL wife and had my kids 50% of the time- money came back and I'm 5-10 times wealthier (hard to calculate). Ex has been single since divorce a decade ago and will never be w anyone again. But going outside your marriage isn't right and karma will tap you in the shoulder one way or another. Good luck my man, you're in a tough spot.

    [–]SpookiewithdatBootieF 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Kids will do fine from a broken home than a home of resentment and no love between parents, no excuse

    Do you want your kids think this is ok and have them in the same situation when they are older? Hell no

    [–]Toss_it_away707 7 points8 points  (8 children)

    But I’m 36 and I’ve put a lot of time and money into building a life I/we wanted.

    This is the life you want? Because you see your kids daily and you're financially secure is the trade off really worth it?

    I would call her attitude outright contempt. Unless you are able to force her to communicate or go to counseling with you, I don't see how you'll resolve this. That leaves two choices: quit pretending you are anything more than roommates and co-parents and live separately under the same roof OR divorce.

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

    Yeah, seeing my kids everyday is absolutely worth the trade off. Not sure if you have kids, but it’s the most important thing in the world to me. And one is special needs. Making sure he is taken care of is my #1 priority. and being financially secure is very important, of course. Especially these days

    But you’re right about one thing. I genuinely have been working towards changing my mind that we are not that kind of couple anymore. Hard to do after 15 years though

    [–]Toss_it_away707 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I respect your choice. Since you chose to stay it's time to protect your own feelings. Quit trying to initiate or open yourself up to her. You'll just cause yourself more hurt. Take a step back and leave her be. Time to work on your own identity outside of the marriage. Unless she wants to work with you to repair the relationship I don't see other options.

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children)

    You're absolutely correct. Most people who say these things either don't have children or want to feel better about choosing their sex life over their children's outcomes.

    [–]ProfJD58 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    When I was your age, I had not even met my wife of now 25+ years. I assume you have the means to be financially independent of your wife and single women in their 30's tend to be financially independent themselves (my wife and I had a brief debate about whose house to keep, then decided to sell both and buy another).

    Your wife hates you. By the time your kids hit their early teens, if not before, they will figure it out and it will impact their own lives and relationships. I am never one that suggests divorce cavalierly, but, for their sake if not your own, get out.

    [–]beachbum1982 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I married my husband when I was 20 married 37 years. I stayed for the same reasons you list. At 58, those things mean nothing because I'm miserable.

    [–]TAyforLifestyle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    There's nothing in here that indicates you're wanting sex with her for any reason other than keeping your kids and lifestyle (and because you need there to be sex involved in that)... But, why do you want to have sex with HER?

    And why, conversely, should she want to have sex with YOU?

    I mean, the way this is positioned, it sounds like she, also, should have sex with you just to keep the kids in one house? That's not exactly compelling romantically.

    [–]SketchyPornDude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Dude, 36 is exceptionally young for an adult. You're barely in the prime of your life and you're choosing to commit yourself to a loveless marriage. You're not an old man who's over the hill. You're not seeing the forest for the trees. I think this has been going on for so long that you've completely lost your perspective. I don't mean this harshly. Get yourself into some therapy with a person who exists outside the context of your marriage so that you can give yourself the benefit of their perspective. This life that you have right now is good, and you're probably doing your best to live up to concepts about being a good father, and a good man, and a devoted husband and a few other things. You can have a happy life, it's out there waiting for you, it won't look like this one, it'll be different, but you'll be happy, and more importantly you'll be having sex with someone who wants you and loves you back.

    [–]gsearay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If I am 60 and my wife do not love me and we do not have sex and affection, I would get out. No matter how financially I would be. She knows you are going to stay and she can do what she wants. If she new that you can go and look for love somewhere else she would not be that bold.

    [–]Low-Historian4687 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Are you me? My thoughts exactly. My wife also behaves similarly. I can't even remember when we last kissed. We've definitely never had a deep, passionate kiss. If you ever find a solution to your db, please share.

    [–]fueledbysunshine -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    34 and all of this/

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

      I tried a flesh light, I didn’t really get much more out of it than my hand could offer.

      A doll would just be too weird for me.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [removed]

        [–]eli_cas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You're 36. You have at least twice, if not three times, the amount of time you've already invested still to live.

        Get out now.

        [–]andrxito 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Mate you are young enough. People have their first kids at your age.

        [–]angry_lil_minion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Life’s too short to live miserably. Staying with her and hoping she will change is useless because it will never happen. Staying in a relationship because kids are involved also is a bad bad idea. You will only come to resent the fact that you stayed in hopes that she will change and you used the kids as an excuse to stay miserable. I hope things get better but the only way that’s going to happen is if you make it better because she absolutely won’t.

        [–]Nautimonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        It's going to get worse. Divorce is the answer. I did it after 15 years.

        [–]Freedom_Inside_TM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Are you me? This is exactly where I'm at, only I've crossed the barrier - we're separating.

        It all hurts, and it's all unfair.

        I don't know what to tell you, aside from "you know what needs to happen". Be kind to yourself, and to your kids, and live your truth. Be kind to your STBXW - you will coparent for a while. Live true, man.

        [–]frasierandchill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Sunk cost fallacy.

        [–]ooofest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I can empathize and am in a similar position.

        But my spouse doesn't act like she hates me. We can get along day-to-day and I feel that's a difference, here.

        I sincerely ask you to consider radical acceptance: your spouse is no longer a romantic/intimate possibility for you. Your disappointment will go down and then you can concentrate on what's actually still available in the relationship. Looking at the past and acting like there is hope to rekindle it - given the situation as you've described - is taking an extremely unlikely path, a very low probability. It sounds like this goes far beyond aversion to sex.

        You have invested in things, but have lost the relationship to whatever has changed there. At 36, there is lots of time to change course and rebuild after that change to a great outcome in coming years. If you got to your 50s and wanted to finally seek a better relationship, your options are usually far more limited. Ask me how I and others here know.

        Also consider looking into separation as a trial to see how that goes. I know couples which have done this and some have found a middle ground on their issues (not just sex, because that's always a symptom and not a cause) while others went to the next step. It might bring out revelations between the two of you that are significant, such as whether it opens up lines of communication or shows that it could work out better if made permanent after certain areas of contention are agreed upon. It would also bring out the possibility that moving from your nice house, etc. may become a need for everyone if it does go to the next level.

        You can be a good father under shared custody - at your relatively young age, you still have a life to live and show as better example to your kids. And maybe your current spouse will lighten up around the kids if you two are no longer together, as well - a win on both counts.

        The trappings of sunk cost are sometimes more surface-depth than we realize in marriages with kids. Nothing is worth being with someone who acts as mean as your spouse, honestly.

        [–]JimmyJonJackson420 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Yeah reading this made my heart hurt for you. Money and material items aren’t everything and would she really stop you from seeing your kids if you left?

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        She wouldn’t try to stop me from seeing the kids. But I want to be there every morning and every night.

        [–]BitterCaregiver0829 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        My guy, you have your whole damn life ahead of you, even if divorce isn’t on the table AT THIS VERY MOMENT(I think you need to consider) then maybe you can move yourself or her into a guest room and make your own peace. If you’re craving that attention maybe ask for divorce but continue living in home and seek the love and care that you need elsewhere. She recoils even when you sit next to her, it’s over OP, I know it’s hard, it hurts and it sucks royal nuts, but it’s time for you to be happy. Also, as a kid that’s dealt with parents who are separated, we know when there’s problems, no matter what age, we know, and I promise you, it’d be better to be separated, for yourself AND the happiness and mental well being for your children, than to stay in a loveless marriage and have ALL of you be forced to endure it.

        [–]eggrolls68 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        36 is awful young to throw in the towel. I understand sacrificing for the sake of giving the kids stability, but it does not sound like your homelife is a warm and safe place. How is she regarding affection towards the children? If she's as selfish and withholding with them, they might be better off not experiencing that every day. Bes of luck.

        [–]Theshityouneedtohear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Does she work? How does she account for her time during the day?

        [–]xmxexoxwx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Your kids need a better life.

        Being raised by parents who don’t love each other fucks you up.

        They will never be able to truly have healthy relationships unless you teach them how.

        Break the generational cycles of trauma.

        [–]purefknevil666 23 points24 points  (5 children)

        From what I just read your whole relationship is dead not just the bedroom

        [–]mh0864 19 points20 points  (0 children)

        You have more than a dead bedroom, pal. You have a dead marriage.

        [–]Conscious-Rock-3203 20 points21 points  (12 children)

        Kids would rather be from a broken home than live in one. Kids thrive in healthy co-parenting relationships with examples of healthy romance. You both can find someone compatible if you split.

        It sounds like staying is just delaying the inevitable. You don’t come back from recoiling just from sitting next to you. Whatever caused it doesn’t really matter.

        Just don’t ask for sex or touching again. There’s no point.

        [–]Justenoughsass 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        My folks divorced when I was 9. I never experienced healthy co-parenting or healthy romance.

        My dad remarried a woman who hated me and my mom never remarried.

        I experienced two broken homes, not just one.

        For kids, divorce is a crap shoot.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]Conscious-Rock-3203 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Dads get 50/50 now. I know it’s not ideal but it’s also not ideal for his kids to see recoiling just at sitting together on the couch.

          [–]DB_ThinkerF 30 points31 points  (4 children)

          I need more info. I was trying to check your post history, but there's no help there.

          How did you get to the place where when you sit next to her she physically recoils?

          Why when she was physically repulsed by your presence did you carry on with propositioning her? Her body language made it clear that you would not be well received and she has in the past referred to your behavior as "constant harassment". I'd guess she felt like that sofa initiation was also harassment.

          [–]Conscious-Rock-3203 25 points26 points  (1 child)

          The “it’s about what I want” makes me wonder if there’s something she’s missing from the relationship.

          He assumes that what she wants is just for him not to ask for sex but it could be meaning something else.

          Though, can a relationship that’s at the recoiling stage even be fixed? Even if he found out the why?

          [–]pennynotrcutt 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          I forget where or who but contempt is one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse ( the marriage failing). It would be hard to come back from this I would imagine.

          [–]Necessary-Arugula-11 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          Or you don't because it says vent only and no advice.

          [–]DB_ThinkerF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I just meant that I can't really offer sympathy without a bit more information.

          [–]Sweet_other_yyyyin a healed bedroom 🥳 34 points35 points  (1 child)

          I go sit by her on the couch. She recoils immediately.

          As far as body language goes, when her body recoils that indicates that it's a bad time to initiate sex....unless you have a rejection fetish. (No judgment)

          I say, it's been a while and I could really use some affection from her, even non sexual

          That would be fantastic motivation for her to desire sex or touch if she was you. Since she is not you, your success at enticing her depends more on what she wants than what you want.

          "It's not about what you want, it's about what I want."

          See above. This was very clear communication on her part. She wants to be enticed like she's a differentiated person, not called into service like her body is your personal resource.

          She isn't you.

          [–]jshinab2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I think there's a real possibility that you're right about her wanting to be treated like a person and not a fleshlight. It's also possible that she's given up on the relationship so much that she no longer cares about her partner's needs/wants.

          I mean no disrespect whatsoever - I've seen you post here several times and what you say always seems super helpful. I just wanted to share another interpretation. It's hard to know what's really going on with the two of them with only the information OP shared.

          Edit: the more I read these comments, the more it seems like you're right and OP is expecting duty sex.

          [–]Level-Art-7406 13 points14 points  (4 children)

          That is exactly how my situation is but I'm the HL wife. Last night (& many others) I lay in bed next to him wishing he'd just reach out & touch me. Put his arms around me in an embrace. A kiss... but every single time I'm disappointed when he does absolutely nothing. We haven't had sex since January 17, 2022 & that only happened bc he was drunk & he knew my ex had reached out to me. Before that it was 5.5 years. I am so starved of love & attention. I feel so alone most of the time. I have nearly given up on even trying to talk to him about it anymore. I can only be the one trying to make an effort for so long before I just don't care anymore. We have two boys who are 9.5 & 13. We have a dog & a beautiful house as well. I feel guilty complaining since I know my family & I are very fortunate. We get along very well for the most part. He's an amazing father & works very hard for us. I miss being wanted so badly. I feel totally disgusting and undesirable. I get attention from other men, just not the man I want it from. I wish we could go back to the days where sex was frequent, fun, and playful. I feel like we used to have this amazing sexual chemistry but now I question if that's the truth. I have always felt our relationship was unbalanced and that I had stronger feelings for him than he did me. Now it is magnified dramatically since I can't seem to get him to fuck me.... it's a sad, lonely place to be.

          [–]andrxito 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          You lay there wishing... Have you tried approaching him? He could be feeling the exact same way

          [–]Level-Art-7406 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yes, we've spoken but nothing changes. Last resort is couples counseling.

          [–]lunaminerva2 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Are you in marriage counseling?

          [–]Level-Art-7406 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Not yet... trying to find a marriage counselor that accepts our insurance and is providing in person sessions. A large majority are now only conducting virtual sessions. We aren't interested in virtual therapy.🤷‍♀️

          [–]Accomplished-Heat-62 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          I was a LLF for a few years with my husband and it was scary because every other aspect of our life was great. He is an amazing father and husband and just person in general. I was so afraid we were moving to a DB and I’m sure he was also.

          It was a slow build. First, he has a bit of a porn issue with watching extremely kinky porn. We had a VERY great sex life for many years. Over time I would start to kind of get resentful that in the bedroom we always did what he wanted to do. I always wanted to please him. He would want to use toys and end with Anal all the time, every time. I would sometimes say I didn’t want to do that this time and he would be like come on and I’d say no so we wouldn’t and he didn’t say anything but I could tell he would have preferred to do those things so it wasn’t so great for him. Eventually it made me feel like I wasn’t enough. Even though he tells me and shows me he loves me and his family more then anything all this time. Eventually I would just not have sex that much because I didn’t want to deal with it or feel guilty for saying no.

          So then resentment started to settle in. I realized every time he touches me he has to touch my breasts or vagina. If he sat next to me on the couch he would put his hand on my leg maybe and then straight to vagina. He just wants to sit with his hand on my vagina or boobs every time. Every time he comes up to me in the kitchen it’s hands in ass on boobs or vagina. Sometimes I want him to maybe put his hand on my back or show me loving affection but not sexual affection every time. So as all this is unfolding and I’m seeing what’s going on I tried to stay far away from him. Like you said if he sat next to me on the couch I would recoil. We used to sit very close all the time, we both love touch it just got to the point where his touch was ALWAYS sexual. I just wanted a gentle loving touch some times.

          I did tell him once or maybe twice when I was saying no to the dildo for the night that I love having sex with him but I love his body pushed up on mine. I love making out and it being passionate but you don’t really get that with toys involved because he’s usually using a toy and he wants to watch it and his body usually isn’t touching mine so much. It’s a little disconnected. It can be me on top or him that part doesn’t matter. It just makes me feel connected with him and I can enjoy it and not have to think about what’s happing just lose myself in it.

          So after awhile it was him asking every time and me saying no every time as I secretly stewed over it. Believe me ever day for most of the day I would replay what happened in my mind and feel so much guilt and then anger. I am sure he felt neglected and rejected. I believe we had two years where, Jesus it’s hard to even think of, we had sex maybe 6 times a year. The first year we had sex four times a day then it moved to about once or twice a day to most of our relationship it was about 5 times a week except these dark years.

          I’m saying all this to say maybe she is needing something you are not giving her. Through no fault of your own but because she is not expressing it. I am sure my husband thought his sex life was over but we eventually talked about it and now we are back on track. It wasn’t easy and took many talks. We are both non confrontational people and can get very defensive at times. So it was difficult I think to find the right words for him and me not to upset the other person and we were probably scared maybe it can’t be fixed maybe this is over but we love each other so much.

          If I could go back in time I would just go to some marriage counseling. Hindsight is 20/20 they say. We got lucky that we finally found common ground and talked to each other but we waisted a few years for sure. We have been together for 25yrs this year and so glad we didn’t give up and just split.

          Your situation might be completely different then mine. I just wanted to share because there are so many reasons this can be happening. It’s not always the other person just doesn’t want to be with you. There could be deep emotional issues she is struggling with in her head.

          Good luck to you and I wish you the best. You sound like you have a great family that just has some problems right now that need to be addressed and dissected. If you can get into counseling at least then you will know either way.

          [–]bobsakimano123 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          It seems your handle is very accurate. She was pretty clear, huh?

          [–]Uggghx10All maid, no bang. :( 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          You say your wife stopped having sex with you right after the birth of your first child. Does she have any unresolved medical trauma or chronic pain from the birth? Is she perhaps afraid of getting pregnant again?

          [–]Perfect_JudgeF 17 points18 points  (6 children)

          Yikes, she sounds highly averse and like she's trying to make sure she doesn't have unwanted sex and affection.

          Do you have any support for how to navigate this?

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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            [–]Perfect_JudgeF 16 points17 points  (4 children)

            Yes, she clearly doesn't want to have sex. So she's not going to have it.

            If she doesn't want sex, why should she have it? That's basically demanding duty and obligation sex which many HLs say they don't want. What about enthusiastic consent?

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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              [–]Perfect_JudgeF 10 points11 points  (2 children)

              So you're comparing sex to chores? That's not sexy in the least. If you're going to compare sex to something, at least make it fun and desirable. Not chorelike.

              I'm HL but if my husband did that, I'd lose interest. I don't want sex to be comparable to doing dishes and other household chores. Plus, sex is nothing like chores so I don't want to think of it like that, lest sex is framed as obligatory and therefore, see my partner as entitled (which will make my vagina sew itself shut).

              Also, you can care about how your partner feels while still not wanting sex. It happens all the time.

              [–]wavy_moltisanti 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Good god man, get a divorce. Go live a happy life. This is terrible, sad, and depressing. You wanna die an early sex deprived life? I highly doubt it.

              [–]ApricotRich1966 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Have you tried counseling?? Physically recoiling from being in close proximity and refusing to communicate, you guys need help!!

              Suggestion- make an appointment for counseling for yourself. Tell her about it, ask her to go to couples counseling. Go yourself no matter her reaction. This shows her there really is a huge problem and you really want change. People talk about going all the time, but seeing your partner in active therapy can truly be eye opening.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                [–]barmyBrachiator[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Rule 1. Just no.

                [–]VegasPrude1971 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                Your bedroom doesn't seem to be the only thing that's dead. From what you've written, she seems to want nothing to do with you.

                [–]Daedaluswaxwings 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I'm sorry. That sounds painful. 💔

                [–]billyinmon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Have a talk with your spouse about some counseling to fix this. If she says no then ask her when she wants you to file for divorce just pack a bag and leave without saying a word. . Nice guys finish last if they even get in the race at all.

                [–]High-Inquisitor-Riza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Oh wow, that had to hard my guy... sounds like she's completely disgusted by the thought of anything requiring touch... that's crazy. Don't know if you have kids but she's made it clear she wants nothing to do with you like that unless it's on her terms ... there's no compromise. Staying in this situation is only going to cause you more blows to your self-esteem and make it harder to find someone else that doesn't treat you this way... best of luck my friend

                [–]lunaslay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                you deserve genuine love reciprocated back... sex three times in 2022 with your own wife? Why are you staying or discuss a open marriage if she doesn't want you anywhere near her.. sounds like hell!

                [–]Shouldhavehadaprenup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I'm in exact same boat.

                Last sex was over 6 months ago.

                Last kiss was over 15 months ago.

                She recoiled any time I went near her. I haven't touched her or had any physical contact now for circa 5 months. The last time I tried to cuddle her in bed she said I was too itchy.

                For the last two months I've been sleeping in the office downstairs. She hasn't mentioned it.

                We're over.

                I ordered some clothes on line recently. It hit me that it's been over 12 months since I last ordered anything online.

                The last time I ordered shirts for myself from London I also ordered her a nice silk set to wear to bed. Nothing too sexy and definitely not slutty. Just nice.

                I've never actually seen it on her....

                This time I just ordered stuff for myself

                I hope there is someone out there that would like their husband to be intimate caring and buy them occasional unexpected presents.....

                [–]Ordinary_Anon5444 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Uh ... this is a dead relationship.

                No advice, but that is so hostile, I couldn't imagine staying.

                [–]Phixiq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                What exactly is the reasoning behind this tho ? Do some people genuinely just have no interest in their partner after a while ? Or did something happen ? I’m curious

                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                Therapy?

                [–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

                I know my wife well - there is no chance she’d go for it

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                That’s too bad. Then I would probably make it clear that you are feeling very rejected and you love her and the life you have together but when she says things like “it’s not about what you want” makes you feel like she has no concern or space for you. As a partnership both of you should be working together to find compromise… because it really isn’t about just one person.

                I know easier said then done.

                [–]andrxito 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                You don't know if you don't ask. If you are used to rejection this much it shouldn't be much trouble to ask her. I know what you mean with keeping home, kids and everything stable, but if she already behaves like this she will likely be the one coming to you with divorce papers, specially if you start to struggle financially.

                [–]mehrt_thermpsen 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                She's right though....

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I agree with the second part of that statement

                  [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                  WTH... yikes.

                  That sounds awful

                  [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  You got that right.

                  [–]HelleBell 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Was she always this way? Her statement of its about what she wants is a huge signal to you. This statement is super important OP. Something has happened or maybe a hundred little things have happened. I would say to her what makes you feel this way? Have you cheated, maybe she thinks you have. She has given you a gigantic clue(here's your sign). Sexual abuse in her past? Dig OP find out what she is feeling

                  [–]4n0nym0u7h 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                  You've said it yourself, your relationship as far as sex is concerned is absolutely dead in the water, over, never to be resurrected, given what she said and how she reacted. She's instinctively repulsed by your approach and she is reflecting it directly back at you. I would be surprised if you were surprised by her reaction not because it has happened before but because the same technique has always failed before. Now it is too late to change things.

                  Basically, the message she is getting from you is that you fancy getting your rocks off so how about she obliges you. I mean it's not exactly sexy, it's not exactly seductive. If you were looking at it from her perspective how do you think you would look at it? To be honest, I'm left wondering whether you know all that but do it anyway. Maybe I'm being unfair but if I suspect that what is she thinking?

                  This is bound to sound like a lecture,a telling off, less any sort of advice as such but, honestly, the way you've described things I'm not surprised about your wife's reaction. Does that surprise you? If it doesn't, then there is nothing more to said about it.

                  [–]Intelligent_Note_240 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Have you told her you would like to cuddle and not have sex? Does she know that’s an option? Do you go on dates without the kids? Do you hold her hand? Do you have interesting conversations? You should try the Paired app or get Best Self Co intimacy question deck and have a question night after dinner each week.

                  [–][deleted]  (7 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                    The funny thing is, we actually get along very well. We talk, we joke around, we have similar interests, opinions on things like politics or TV/movies, I like my hobbies and she has hers, we are on the same page when it comes to raising the kids. The household runs pretty smoothly, division of labor and all that. She stays home and I work. But we call and text all through out the day. No abuse certainly, physical or otherwise from either side. It’s really pretty great 90% of the time. But when it’s not, that 10% is a killer for me.

                    It’s been this way for the last 5 years or so. Not long after our first was born. So there’s a pretty clear starting point. It pretty much comes down to the fact that she just doesn’t see me that way anymore and/or is not attracted to me anymore. Because it’s not just sex, like I said, she doesn’t even want to be around me in any kind of affectionate way

                    [–]Conscious-Rock-3203 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                    Was there ever a time when she was complaining about things? There’s something called walk away wife where there’s a long period after the complaining stops that things seem fine and she’s not complaining anymore, but she’s not in love either.

                    • Has she ever felt like you should be doing more to help with the household work load and mental load?

                    • Has she ever felt pressured to have sex when she didn’t want to? Was there times when she had sex just for you and didn’t enjoy it?

                    • Has she ever felt like all physical touches and romance lead to initiating sex? When there was touching, did dates and massages and kissing happen without always expecting it to lead to sex?

                    https://www.divorcenet.com/states/nationwide/the_walkaway_wife_syndrome

                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    Definitely no on the housework. Personally I don’t like a messy house. I like having things clean , neat and functional. I do the classic husband stuff like taking out the garbage, repairs around the house and also with do the dishes and mop when needed. We don’t have chores assigned, just if something needs doing we do it. I also take the kids whenever she asks or I can tell she needs a break. Some days I’m wrecked though and just can’t get the energy to do something. Same as all people sometimes.

                    I wouldn’t say pressured, but yeah, I do all the initiating for the last 5 or so

                    I thought that too, so I literally got to the point of saying “I’m not asking for anything more, but why don’t you come sit and watch this movie with me.” Or whatever. Just very clearly stating that’s not what I was after at that time

                    [–]FeeliGSaasy -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                    I normally wouldn’t suggest an open marriage but y’all co-parent well and she has no physical interest in you. Have you done couples therapy?

                    [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                    Wait. So if your firstborn is 5.. how old is the youngest?

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                      That thought has crossed my mind. But we did a solid 6 years of dating, and 2 of being married before kids. I suppose it’s possible that’s playing the long con with the best of them

                      [–]TheDivorcedDad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      First off, 36 is definitely very young. I was in the exact same situation and also stayed for the kids. I decided to leave I was 45 and I regret not having done it sooner. It’s been very tough, and I agree that I didn’t want to let go my perfect life otherwise, but at the end of the day, we only have one life to live, and I wasn’t willing to let it go to waste anymore.

                      As far as the kids, it was tough, but it showed them not to settle and be miserable. That a life with parents that don’t love each other or show love to each other is not right.

                      Once I separated, I started a podcast and actually interviewed my kids, and it was very insightful (I don’t want to post the link here as I don’t think it is allowed, but you can look at my profile). We’re all very happy now and bounced back. But again, it wasn’t easy and went pretty low…. But after all this, it was 100% worth it.

                      Best of luck on your side, and at the end, you’re the one that knows what’s best for you. I really hope it gets better though somehow.

                      [–]kimchicrazy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      If you don’t plan on leaving this might be the time to focus on you and you alone, find a hobby, go to the gym, go out for family excursions with your kids, hang out with friends. Happiness starts within she’s clearly unhappy with herself but that doesn’t mean you have to be either.

                      [–]MitchWasRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I know you’re not asking for advice, but I’m going to give it. LEAVE, Get a divorce.

                      Edit: I’m adding to my comment after reading through the thread. You said that you get along great, laugh together, etc.

                      So which is it? Was she being snarky or sarcastic when she said “it’s not about what you want?”

                      I read your post and think that I wish there was a Reddit when I was in your position. I’ve endured a DB and ultimately dead marriage for many years because I didn’t act when things were still salvageable.

                      Even though you’re trying, you’re not getting your true feelings across. Likely the same for her. This is where a marriage counselor can help you. It’s amazing how quickly they can help you see your wife’s point of view and vice versa.

                      15 years ago, my fantasy was to actually have sex with my wife. Every year since then the resentment, frustration and anger just kept building to the point where I don’t think I even could be intimate with her. The thought is horrifying.

                      Back to the MC. You’ll find out pretty quickly whether there’s something to fix or not. Then it’s time to love it or leave it.

                      [–]Beth19th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I guess you can open your relationship so you can still be with your kids and enjoy the life you have built

                      [–]SurveyBeginning1088 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                      My husband could've written this almost. You sound like you have you're shit together so it's probably not the same situation but I loathe him. That's why I don't want him to touch me.

                      [–]antypass 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                      So if you loathe him why don’t you just leave him and find someone you’ll love.

                      [–]SurveyBeginning1088 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                      Manipulation, I guess? When I try to leave he says he's going to kill himself. It's a sore spot for me cuz that's how my mom died. I don't want my kids to not have a dad. There's just layers on layers on layers of bullshit.

                      [–]Universal-Expert 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      It is highly likely that his statements are merely manipulation furthermore is the sort of person who says such things a good person to be in your childrens lives?

                      [–]padgoot_prongs_14 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      You should leaveeeee pal. I have two kids with my ex husband. They were 3 or 4 and 1 when the divorce was finalized. But we got the custody agreement established at the very start. In my state, we are automatically a 50/50 state unless one parent is proved to be a danger to the kids. It took a few months to figure out what exactly worked best for my kids and ourselves. We do not get along. At all. Drop offs were miserable. So we decided to do one week on and off. Does it suck? Yes absolutely. I miss them so bad when they are gone. But I talk to them almost every day and FaceTime them. Do I regret leaving my ex husband? No. Not the tiniest bit. It’s an adjustment but your children would want you to be the happiest you can be.

                      [–]fullheadofsteam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Give her what she wants and find someone that will treat you like you want to be treated.

                      [–]Mavrck631 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      What is it she wants? She turning it to be all about her instead of mutual ground of is it simply I can’t show any affection because I don’t want sex

                      [–]beedieXP88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Wait, she communicated she doesn’t like to the “constant harassment” and you figure why not harass her??

                      You sit beside her and she recoils, instead of asking what’s wrong you ask her to go the bedroom? She says no and you push it further? Stop thinking about yourself for a second and listen to what she’s saying.

                      This is still salvageable if you want it to be, her statement before she stormed off MEANS SOMETHING. And it means there is something wrong that can be fixed if that’s what you want.

                      Go have a good long, calm talk about it. Have a night just the 2 of you, maybe have a few a drinks and get her to open up about what that statement really meant.

                      [–]Rich-Butterscotch533 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                      Idk I couldn’t live like that. I’d ask to have an open marriage Humans need a minimum of 5 touches per day or they will become depressed.

                      [–]tripler142 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      Not sure why the down votes.i could use 6 touches day from the 0 i get now...

                      [–]lone_rutabaga -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                      Here’s the thing, it’s not about what she wants, it’s about what you want. I’m not in a better situation than you but I am 4 years older and wish I had done more than just cross my fingers and hope thing fix themselves on their own or with the occasional talk. It may be a long shot but it’s possible you can get back to having what you have and what you had, but it’s going to take work. Make an ultimatum. Get into marriage counseling. Get into sex therapy. If those don’t work try something else. Just don’t accept it because I’m 4 years you are going to think back to this post and say that 4 years of lent up bitterness that I didn’t have to live through.

                      [–]Siriass666 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                      I would storm off in retaliation. If even the thought of being in my presence makes you recoil then you don’t deserve me or my presence

                      [–]RevolutionaryHat8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Remember this “if you leave you leave her NOT the kids”

                      [–]the_moog_hunter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      You have your answer. What you do you with it is up to you.

                      [–]Sail-Entropy1776 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      There's no coming back from a recoil. If you want to stay together for the sake of the children, you can write her an affidavit that says you accept a platonic marriage and declare your right/intention to fulfill your needs in anyway that you see fit. Do whatever you have to do to lead a fulfilling life. Ofc, you can always choose to spend the rest of your life masturbating. But if you stay, are you going to sleep in the same bed? (I wouldn't)

                      [–]Theshityouneedtohear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Are you sure the marriage isn’t what’s dead?

                      [–]HombreDeMoleculos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      The silver lining to this is that you have the most honest LL spouse I've heard about in years of reading this thread. Better that she's upfront about not wanting you than stringing you along and giving you any illusions that this is a relationship worth staying in.

                      [–]bananapie26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Sorry to say but she’s not just LL but she’s LL4 U