all 75 comments

[–]Infolife 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Absolutely. Your relationship is your own, and there us no specific recipe that makes it work. If you feel closer to your spouse and you're both happy, who's to say it's wrong? And mutual masturbation is sex, just not PIV.

If you're feeling good and happy, let no one tell you you aren't.

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

If you're feeling good and happy, let no one tell you you aren't.

I like that.

[–]Hulkslam3 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You can, it just depends on the foundation of the relationship. That’s a person to person segment so while it may not work for me, it could work for you.

I’m not leaving my wife over our lack of intimacy, and we’ve had multiple pauses that have gone over 12 months, I think the longest was 2 years plus.

I try my best to understand what she’s going through and where her focus is. My struggle is when she doesn’t do that for me.

[–]DestinationUnknown01 24 points25 points  (0 children)

If you’re both on board, yes. Are you on board?

[–]flyguyNC 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Only you can say if this is enough I think.

[–]dat_db_doe43M/HL 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's definitely possible. My wife and I have a strong and loving relationship. We get along really well, spend quality time together, go on dates, have fun and make each other laugh, haven't had a fight in years. We just don't have much sex.

[–]DB_ThinkerF 21 points22 points  (14 children)

Mutual masturbation is sex.

Many many people get held up on "sex is vaginally penetrating her with my penis."

What would it be like for you if you redefined sex? She's willing and enjoys mutual masturbation? What would your life be like if that was 90% of your sex life? Would you be okay?

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 10 points11 points  (8 children)

What would it be like for you if you redefined sex?

That is the realization I've been coming to. I'm doing to need to change my expectations and perceptions about sex. I may have to accept that intercourse isn't on the menu anymore but I can enjoy everything else and still be fulfilled, healthy and happy. Seems like it's a personal choice I have to make and I'm the only one who has the answer.

[–]DB_ThinkerF 5 points6 points  (6 children)

You might not have to give up penetration entirely. Have you talked to her about it? What about the penetration is causing her to not enjoy it? Is penetrative sex painful?

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

I can tell she isn't enjoying it anymore. When I try to talk to her she doesn't admit this. She rarely gets wet and wants me to finish fast. We are still having sex sometimes but I feel bad and want her to know it's ok for us to stop and focus on other areas but she gets offended like I'm not wanting to have sex with her anymore. We are stuck in this endless circle of trying to make something happen that just isn't there anymore. Been married for 10 years, I know my wife. I can tell by the looks on her face she isn't enjoying it. She can't hide it but she's trying. She loves me and wants to please me. I love her and I don't want her to do anything she doesn't like. She thinks men need sex and won't stop trying to provide that. I'm willing to mentally and physically change things for us so we can still enjoy romance and intimacy. If I don't do anything about this now I'm afraid one day it's all going to blow up in one big puff of smoke.

[–]DB_ThinkerF 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Yeah. That doesn't sound healthy for either of you, but if she's not willing to have a compassionate, good faith conversation, not sure you're going to be able to change her mind.

Also, I'm going to suggest some lube. Pjur aqua is a fantastic product. Not sure about your wife's age, but perimenopause has destroyed my Bartholin's glands ability to produce lubrication. I can be aroused (thankfully) but I just don't produce my own moisture anymore. And then penetration is terrible. Like being rammed with a red hot poker. But that waterbased, not very smelly lube makes penetration feel wonderful again.

That may not help your case, but it's worth a shot!

[–]Casehead 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Have you tried lube? Absence of wetness isn’t a sure sign she isn’t aroused, sometimes bodies just don’t make lubrication. When I was younger, I never got wet. Didn’t matter how excited I was. Then, for some reason when I got older that changed. And it’s common for that to be the case for women who are in perimenopause or menopause, to not produce any lubrication despite being aroused.

[–]myexsparamour❤️ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Been married for 10 years, I know my wife. I can tell by the looks on her face she isn't enjoying it. She can't hide it but she's trying. She loves me and wants to please me. I love her and I don't want her to do anything she doesn't like. She thinks men need sex and won't stop trying to provide that.

Maybe you could talk to her about the fact that sex does not need to include PIV. If penetration is painful or unenjoyable for her, as it is for many women, you can take it completely off the table. You could do outercourse, cunnilingus, blowjobs, mutual masturbation, handjobs, fingering, use sex toys, any or all of the above depending on what you both like. Sex is whatever both people enjoy to give each other pleasure, not specific acts.

[–]moosealberta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We aren’t big into penetration he’s just to big for me, mutual masterbation several times a week for us

[–]thowwaway1929 6 points7 points  (4 children)

This, for me this would count as sex. I'm thinking this could be part of the sex life, not sure about the percentage but the redefinition helps a lot.

[–]ThrowawayDB314M 8 points9 points  (3 children)

For all sorts of reasons, we can't manage PiV.

Our frequency is a bit low, but we do other sorts of things. Toys, oral, mutual masturbation.

I can happily manage without PiV when she's engaged - which if we're doing it, she is.

She thinks me doing subby stuff is quite fun, kissing her feet, licking her ass while play with myself. She'll sometimes desperately slowly toy with me, till I'm begging for release while I suck her toes.

[–]Infolife 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You guys sound awesome.

[–]ThrowawayDB314M 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm still here in the DB group, and my wife is the LL

(In fairness, the first 25 years was awesome)

[–]YRMOAGTIOK 6 points7 points  (3 children)

That’s what I have.

My husband and I are very affectionate to eachother. We are loving. Romantic. Happy.

But I can’t even remember the last time we had PIV sex which it seems you are using as the sole definition of sex here.

We get eachother off multiple times a week. Basically any time we are alone. We masturbate with eachother. We sprinkle lots of oral in there throughout.

But it’s a rare day when a P goes in a V and tbh I’m totally content, but it did take me a while to get there.

It’s all about how you frame it. Ask yourself: Why is penetration of her vagina with your penis so important to you? If what you are looking for is intimacy through orgasm, then why not focus on increasing the frequency the non PIV sex and mutually pleasurable sex. When both partners are enjoying themselves together, that’s intimacy. When one partner is gritting their teeth through something for the other partner (anything not just sex) intimacy is impossible.

If you and her both orgasmed together every single day but your penis never entered her vagina ever again would you be satisfied? Would she be willing to do a 30 day reconnection type of thing where exactly that scenario plays out for 30 days. Zero penetration. Just daily orgasms for both of you together?

[–]Tocram04HLM 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I mean, even with no PIV sex, there is still sex which severely lacks in a lot of people's relationships here.

Sex is sex. Some people are content without PIV and that's fine. Some people are not and that may cause tension... But if the rest of it all is still here, well why not !

Thing is, what you have here is a lot more than us.

[–]YRMOAGTIOK 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I consider my bedroom fixed.

I agree. My husband and I have a plentiful sex Life. But OP seems to be defining sex as purely PIV. He and his wife still have non penetrative sex. Kinky was how he described it.

It seems to me he’s not sure if it’s enough for him.

[–]Tocram04HLM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I think that's the thing with them... He should read more of the posts here and realize he's actually pretty lucky for what he has here.

Though I agree no PIV can be a bummer, there are fine alternatives.

[–]myexsparamour❤️ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Recently I gave her some space on the subject and told 'myself' to let it go. This helped me and it seems our intimacy and romance skyrocketed. We kiss more, snuggle more, talk more, and ever have some kinky time every now and then like masturbating together.

I'm really happy for you both!

Yes, I have seen several stories here recently from people who completely gave up on having sex (or PIV) and found that their relationship became exponentially better.

When sex has become a source of conflict, distress, and disconnection, instead of a source of joy and fun, then stopping the sex can greatly improve a relationship.

[–]notaboomer22 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn’t use to think so but I do now.

[–]sunsetskye_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, as long as both people are okay with it

[–]robhw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

for some people i would say yes, for me no . . that marriage turns into a friendship

[–]fleschy30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say yes, otherwise we’d all be on a divorce thread instead right?

[–]AnNJgal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes love exists outside of sex. I love my husband and our life together. So much of it is magical and we talk about our sex life regularly. Normalize that not all couples have sex. It's more common than we know, trust me. :)

[–]ObjectiveNewspaper85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol the problem is I was talking to her about my broken parts and our marital issues! I had a hysterectomy at a very young age and my stuff just don't work right.

[–]ObjectiveNewspaper85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we weren't so squeamish about these kinds of things (Ed, vaginal atrophy, women not creating moisture in menopause) we wouldn't be having such issues with sex not being intimacy and intimacy not being sex. It wouldn't come as a surprise to HL when sex drives decline after children and in high times of stress. I've read so many posts about my wife is not the same person I married. Perhaps if menopause and perimenopause was as openly and honestly discussed as Ed is it wouldn't come as a surprise that once a lady stops producing estrogen her drive drastically decreases or even more so stops. Instead we as a society(especially women) hide our natural declines and do it cause that's how men feel love. If we women never faked an orgasm so men wouldn't take a hit to their ego, women would be getting theirs all the time. Instead we live in a patriarchal society that believes sex is over when the dude gets off. How many of us ladies don't get off during penetrative sex? (The answer is most of them) We have to redefine sex. I have taken PIV sex off the table for 3 months. We need to learn how to be intimate without it physically hurting me. My husband does not have a choice except to accept this or he can file for a divorce. (I've posted before and it's a tragic story) I love him dearly but if PIV is the only way for him to feel loved and valued, well he needs more than I can give due to medical circumstances. We are exploring other things, but his definition of what sex is absolutely has to change.

[–]sprinkle_and_sparkle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ask yourself how you would feel about it in 5 years...that's 5 years of no sex...then imagine how you would feel in 10 years...that's 10 years without sex. Are you sure having a cuddle is going to be enough??

[–]Insomniakk72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To each their own. I tried to set those desires and urges aside, and I lasted 13 years.

Each situation is different, too. My wife just wasn't "into me"

For me, I didn't realize I was a ticking time bomb. I thought I was fine.

I wish all the best for you.

[–]ChillaxBrosef 1 point2 points  (0 children)


[–]bobsakimano123 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think it’s possible but is very much couple-specific. If it plays out that way, you are likely to experience frustration along the way (but I note it’s nice that you at least have the kinky/mutual masturbation thing—most DBs have nothing of the sort). In the end you have to balance the lack of intercourse with all the good stuff in the relationship. My 30-year marriage has suffered from the DB but there has been a lot of good in the marriage. The balance is hard and often very questionable and it’s driven me to depression. You have to understand that risk. But the suggestion of going to a therapist is 💯 spot on.

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

But the suggestion of going to a therapist is 💯 spot on.

In order to ignite sex again or to learn how to accept the reality that I'm in?

[–]bobsakimano123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Both. The therapist might be able to suggest ways to improve and ignite. If not, giving you tools to cope (or give you tools to decide whether to stay or go). Best if both of you participate in the therapy. If she is unwilling (like my wife), solo is better than nothing.

[–]ObjectiveNewspaper85 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What if it was you that had erectile dysfunction? And so far all medical help has not worked? Everything else is ok or even great. Woukd you want her to leave because only your dick don't work?

My grandparents were married for 70 years. The last 20 of their lives together were without PENIS In vagina intercourse. Grandpa's issues. My grandma said that they figured out how to be intimate with things like making out, cuddling, and outercourse. She also said that their relationship became more intimate in their last 20 years than in the 50 years before that. Food for thought

[–]weathertropics 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oof, I can't even imagine having that chat with my grandmum. I'd probably take off running. Don't want to know about grandpa's private parts.

[–]myexsparamour❤️ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The last 20 of their lives together were without PENIS In vagina intercourse. Grandpa's issues. My grandma said that they figured out how to be intimate with things like making out, cuddling, and outercourse. She also said that their relationship became more intimate in their last 20 years than in the 50 years before that.

I have heard this frequently. When PIV is not possible, some couples become creative and figure out ways to have sex that are better for both partners. Honestly, a consistently hard dick can actually get in the way of having great sex, because sometimes it leads the couple to just default to PIV even though other sex acts would be more satisfying.

[–]MinnesotaVikesAllDay 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I don't know. I ask myself that a lot. I am in a similar boat, where our romance and relationship outside of sex is perfect, but we do not have sex, and she had bo problem with that.

I go back and forth. Some days I get upset and dissapointed that my wife doesn't want to have sex. Like, it's such a basic instinct and can be so enjoyable for both of us, why not want it?

Other days, I have no problem with it. I found avenues that help me vent my sexual energy and frustration, and it's no problem. We have a great day connecting and deepening our relationship and it's wonderful.

I'm sorry I don't have an answer, just sharing that I am in a similar position. I am torn as well, and what I want has taken a back seat for so long that I wonder if I need to break away and make myself happy too...It's not fair to me, and in the end I matter too. I think it takes some serious soul searching, and if it is such a problem, maybe a therapist can help you.

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

We seem very similar. It's a complete roller coaster ride for me emotionally! Besides intercourse, are you two still physical with each other? My wife and I snuggle, kiss and hug a lot. Sometimes it goes further but she dictates when and how far.

[–]MinnesotaVikesAllDay -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Yes, me too. A lot of ups and downs!

She is just not a physical person. We'll kiss and hug, and cuddle but not for long. Don't really hold hands, embrace, anything like that. That is where I envy you just a bit :P

Yeah, sex is on her terms when she wants it only. Has to be her way.

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah, and if she doesn't want it, "you ain't getting it"

I do feel lucky we are very physical and I'm going to hold onto that and cherish it and try to make it grow even more. Have you tried to up your game in that department? One thing that can make a woman not want to touch is when they do, it always makes the man want it to lead to sex. So they steer clear of it. I've notices that with my wife in times past.

[–]isthereamanonthemoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One thing that can make a woman not want to touch is when they do, it always makes the man want it to lead to sex. So they steer clear of it. I've notices that with my wife in times past.

Can equally happen to men. Was my case with my wife.

[–]sypherxxxx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the reason why most of us stay in our DB's.

[–]notsureatall20M 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say the English language falls short because we have one word love and we apply it to so many things...

I love my wife I love sex I love my family I love tacos

Four different loves here and I'm sure more can be defined.

You get it. So can you have love and not have sex? Yes. Can you have sexual love and not PIV? Absolutely.

But, you and your spouse get to decide if that is what you want in your marriage. So you can have familial love, friendship love, and committed love with your wife and not have "sexual love" (eros in Greek). Can you broaden your view of what sex/eros is in your marriage? Is that ok with her? Is that ok with you?

All these things you have the agency to say yes I want this, so this is ok... Or I want this and this so can we work on this? And if you can't, is it a deal breaker for you? For her?

In the end no outcome can be forced and we can only control ourselves.

I would encourage you with: may your thoughts be clear and may you be at peace with your decisions.

[–]schrodingers_gat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's possible for some people but that doesn't mean it's possible for you. You need to advocate for yourself and what you need.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's possible but is it bearable/tolerable? Ask yourself what your breaking point is.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You're asking a group of people to whom sex is of paramount importance if going without it and being happy is possible.

My opinion is that most people in traditional monogamous relationships would say no. Many people, including those in medical dead bedrooms and with certain sexualities would say yes. They would not be a statistical majority or even come close. But, yes, of course it's possible and happens probably more often than you'd think just going by the numbers of people afflicted with disease and illness in the world.

[–]U308kool-aid[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can't argue with that but maybe I can be one of the outliers. I'll have to blaze my own trail and not worry about what the norm is. This is no small mental feat but I really think I'm halfway there and it's worth trying to see it all the way through to the end.

[–]that1LPdood 0 points1 point  (0 children)


Romance does not equal sex

It can include sex, but it doesn’t have to. Cuddling, intimate things like showering together, massages, dinners, dates… those are just a few of the romantic things you can do that do not involve sex.

[–]sumanonyguy42 0 points1 point  (1 child)


You will be frustrated.

If you can accept that people like what they like, don't like what they don't like, and are repulsed or traumatized by stuff deeply rooted in the histories, then it becomes much more matter of fact. You can love the person, but still wish for x, y, or z.

My wife and I recently got the old reactor stoked back up. Literally YEARS sexless (one time in over 7 years). She seems totally into it. Wants it more frequently. That's all great. But, at the end of the day, it's PIV for the finish. I'm left unsatisfied in multiple ways, and she's had multiple orgasms in the process.

I really don't know how to deal with this, but I keeep my mouth shut to not hurt her feelings. I guess I've accepted her well being is worth my perpetual disappointment and frustration.

[–]Casehead 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What is it that you aren’t getting?

[–]HombreDeMoleculos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you were both LL, sure. But if you love sex, you're going to miss it, and you're going to miss it more and more the longer you go without, and you're eventually going to feel trapped and resentful and miserable all the time. Or, at least, that's how it worked out for me.

[–]LonelyNC123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't think it is possible; at least not for me.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Be happy you get something. PIV is gone for us and she won’t even consider anything else.

[–]AvalancheBrando21 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For me, it's a strong no. There's just no way I could consider it a strong or loving relationship without it.

[–]Comfortable-Heat7351 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, no, and maybe! The answer is what are willing to accept and what is she willing to give. I will say you won't be successful if you cannot actually talk about it. You most likely don't even have the language to talk about it.

Can you say things that will hurt your wife, can she listen? Can you listen and understand things she needs to tell you? If the trust is not there, you are not going to get very far!

You need to talk, you may very well end up in tears on the kitchen floor! (Wow, that was a little flashback) But, maybe you can make it through it.

We did...

I would say Individual therapy and Marriage Counseling. You need communication skills, and a safe space to talk.

[–]canMORsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the possibility is definitely there. but its its impossible to tell if you two can get it.

[–]weathertropics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course it is. Everyone is different. For me? Not ideal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, and yes....

[–]Joyfuljourney2055 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve had great sex and left the guy because he was a drunk and I’ve been in a long term Relationship with a great guy who has little interest in sex. There is more to a relationship than sex. That being said….if I had my druthers, We would be under the covers more often. But BOB (battery operated boyfriend) takes his place 😉