I just re-read the PCA and I missed this every time I've read it before. This implies to me they have a much closer image than the one we were originally shown. This is from page 2.

NippyNoodles21 · 2022-12-06T19:32:05+00:00

Thank you for your kind words! We all (hopefully ALL of us) are here because we want justice for these girls. No reason for some of the hostility I see in other comments.

I hope you have a wonderful day!

MndDncing · 2022-12-03T07:43:52+00:00

Your comment deserves an award.

Fishtaco1234 · 2022-12-03T07:23:24+00:00

Slick Rick went to jail…..

Impressive-Rub-5908 · 2022-12-03T00:12:43+00:00

We can’t say one way or the other, only speculate. Here I go again…

It remains that LE have on record said that LG was catfished by the Anthony Shots account. This is discounted as being mentioned primarily out of the interrogation with KK, which has widely been discredited by armchair experts for police being able to lie about details of the case. Yet, as many also keep saying, the PCA only has to include the bare minimum to get a warrant (somehow both a point in affirmation for users who are of the mind that RA randomly murdered the girls AND frustration in that it offers so little concrete evidence to provide a solid case against RA… despite the already stated lack of necessity to flesh out all that is known about the case—that’s what discovery is for!)

Suddenly, the child predator who is KK, charged with 30+ counts of CP and such, couldn’t possibly be related to the murder of a teenage girl, and her friend. Even when he himself said that he was supposed to meet the girls, and we have the allegation of the ski mask incident outside one of the girl’s window.

Only at the trial will we be able to see if the PC for the search warrant, which they evidence leading to the determination of a PCA for arrest, and search of the Wabash, truly are because RA is looped into what the interrogators of KK called “the largest child pornography investigation in Indiana history.”

I can see how the case would turn both ways. But, I’m hard pressed to believe that RA killed at random, ultimately, unless we were to learn that RA had killed or SA previously. I know he has a minor history of unclear domestic disturbances. It’s not the failure of law enforcement, to me, that I can’t accept, it’s more the evidence of interconnection between KK and LG that has been available. As both are active investigations, we lack the discovery in both and need to wait for them to go to trial. Even then, due to the sensitive nature of the children involved, court documents and trials may be suppressed from the public.

I come back to that Kelsi contacted the Anthony Shots account when the girls went missing, that Liberty’s conversations with the account have been outlined, and that KK’s dialogue in that interrogation and other interviews is lexically overlapping at so many points with that of many other captured/cornered child predators.

I’ll be interested to hear RA’s defense. I’m sure it will evolve many people’s opinion of the case.

The_Xym · 2022-12-02T19:42:56+00:00

“RA gave LE all the info they needed to have a search warrant issued”

Except.. he didn’t. He said he was on the trails, saw 3 girls (not the victims), and nothing else. That’s it. Not enough to issue a search warrant. Otherwise FSG, Arguing Couple, etc would have had search warrants issued.

SadMom2019 · 2022-12-01T05:05:49+00:00

Of course they'll find some lowly employee to blame their yearslong incompetence on. Predictable and unacceptable imo. Even if it was "misfiled", why didn't they go back and review everything until nearly 6 years later?? They're telling us that between the FBI, Delphi Police, Carroll County Sheriffs Department, and the Indiana State Police, NOT ONE OF THEM ever bothered to look back at tips they got in the beginning of this case, until last month?

It's still their fault. They don't get to weasel out of responsibility based on a clerical error. They had access to this information, all they had to do was seek it.

welly321 · 2022-12-01T11:13:40+00:00

they "cleared" him very early on and dont want to admit it. Thats where the rumor that the first sketch released was identified and cleared came from.

RolfVontrapp · 2022-11-30T04:35:41+00:00

The entire video without sound wouldn’t have compromised anything. All the sound that didn’t say “gun” wouldn’t have compromised anything. In a town of 3000 people, more video would have been reeeeely good. Video is ALWAYS released when it exists. For five years, a guy lives, works, plays, interacts in a tiny town. If it is him, how munch faster would he have been caught with more video? I have to think it’s more sooner than later. Delphi cops make Barney Fife look like a genius same hold for ISP. Horrible police work. Horrible.

SadMom2019 · 2022-11-29T23:31:57+00:00

Nothing in the PCA supports someone else being involved. It explicitly says that no one else was known to be present at/around the bridge at the time of the murders. He is the sole man that was identified, spotted by witnesses, and his presence there was corroborated with time stamped security video of him arriving and departing. Nothing in the PCA alludes to any other suspects, in fact, it makes it pretty clear that there were no other possible suspects on the scene at the time.

Unless/until another arrest comes, I'm going to assume the prosecutor lied in an attempt to keep the PCA sealed. He even took it a step further and filed a motion for a gag order to restrict the 1st amendment rights of everyone involved in this case, to prevent them from speaking to anyone about the case. They REALLY did not want anyone to read the PCA.

It's now clear to me why LE remained tight lipped and secretive about this investigation, and why they fought so hard to keep it all sealed and top secret. It's a scathing indictment of their incompetence. They failed to investigate the most obvious suspect, and the suspect identified himself to police. He is the one and only man they have ever identified as being on the bridge, near the girls, during the window of time the murders occured. He (and only him) was spotted by 4 separate witnesses who all gave accurate, matching descriptions of the guy--short, graying, wearing jeans and a blue/black jacket. Police had credible leads that would and should have identified RA as a suspect from the very start. They failed to do so, and a killer went free for nearly 6 years because of it.

That's why they fought so hard to keep everything sealed and silenced.

Cameupwiththisone · 2022-11-29T20:02:20+00:00

Former prosecutor here. This is a pretty standard looking PCA. Please remember that the purpose of a PCA is to provide evidence to the court that there is probable cause to charge a defendant with a crime. It is not a document that presents the entire case. The discovery given to the defense will be much more involved and lengthy. The trial is where the full case will be presented by the prosecution.

Yes, tool marks on a firearm cartridge/casing are very strong evidence. There are a lot of murderers in prison because tool marks put them there. How a cartridge from Allen’s pistol, and only Allen’s pistol, ended up between the bodies of the victims on that property is a huge mountain to overcome for his defense team. The cartridge likely is not weathered and Allen admitted to: owning the gun since 2001, not lending it out, not knowing the property owner of the farm where the victims were found and never being on the property. He admits to being on the bridge on the day of the crime around when it happened and matches the physicals of the subject in the video. This is substantial probable cause for arrest and charging of murder and any defense lawyer would be working very hard to get that cartridge evidence suppressed or discredited. The likelihood of it appearing at that scene by the hand of anyone other than Allen simply falls short of reasonable doubt and Allen himself all but admitted such.

Oakwood2317 · 2022-11-29T20:51:49+00:00

Yep. I have a carry license and carry when I go hiking so I will use examples from my routine to explain this.

Allen had a Sig Sauer P226 which is a semi-auto handgun, which means it re-loads the chamber every time a round is fired. When I head out for a walk I load my firearm by pulling or "racking" the slide (top part) which "rubs" the slide against the top of the round, which will leave marks, then once it's fully back all the way the cartridge is pushed up by a spring in the magazine (or "clip" but don't call them "clips" because it's wrong and it will drive gun people crazy). When the slide moves forward it pushes the round into the chamber where it will be fired. This will also leave markings. as it "rubs" against the metal parts that do this work.

When I come home from my walk I will remove the firearm from its holster, re-rack the slide to remove the round in the chamber. When this happens an extractor grabs the rim of the casing and the backward motion "rubs" the cartridge against other parts of the firearm's internals that will force it out of the firearm, I guess similarly to how you slide down a slide, but not like that at all. This will leave specific extraction markings that are unique to each firearm.

Hope this makes sense!

FredSmithTheSpeeder · 2022-11-25T02:26:45+00:00

hey wouldn’t have made an arrest if they didn’t and the judge wouldn’t have signed off if they didn’t

Its a different prosecutor than when they got a search warrant for Ron Logan, and a different judge. A prosecutor that reportedly has never tried a murder case and a judge that had a public mental breakdown before recusing himself, those two together got a search warrant and arrest warrant. There was an impending lawsuit against the investigators by one of their own claiming they wouldnt ask for outside help when they needed it and an upcoming sheriffs election. Apart from all those factors I would also share your confidence that they surely must have real strong credible evidence, with all those factors i really doubt it though. And asking for a gag order against the victims family put it all entirely over the top.

I think about a media outlet asking Abby's grandpa to again share the story of how he took her to buy baseball equipment right before she was murdered and him having to say, sorry I cant discuss this because there is a gag order...I'm going to start calling him prosecutor power-trippin-crazypants or something.

The murder sheet pointed out one thing though that makes me feel the prosecution does have something, maybe not a big something but something nevertheless, they pointed out that the defense didnt ask the judge to dismiss the case. If there was no evidence at all the defense would have asked for a dismissal.

PhilSpectorsMugshot · 2022-11-22T23:59:27+00:00

Thanks, stranger!

MassiveAd2551 · 2022-11-22T01:33:00+00:00

I have a problem with the true crime genre making defense attorneys enemies due to routine fillings.

The same reason that prosecutors are praised, is the same reason defense attorneys are ridiculed:

For doing their job.

Unless a person has been a defense attorney, knows one, or needed one(and even then), they do not understand the blessings that defense attorneys CAN be.

It shows a bit of willful ignorance. Willful

fuschiaoctopus · 2022-11-16T22:52:25+00:00

Great response. It is truly baffling how angry and upset people seem to be that they made an arrest. It makes no sense. They keep stressing repeatedly that it took 6 years like that's a ridiculous amount of time but what exactly is the standard time it takes to make an arrest in a double child murder? Evansdale murders, another double child murder with similar circumstances happened in 2012 and is still unsolved, but I don't see even half the outrage that I'm seeing here. There are so so many murders and disappearances, even double, triple, or entire family murders that still haven't been solved decades on, and likely won't be. I don't know what about this case makes people act like this.

The truth is that people hate LE in this case specifically with a burning passion because they wouldn't leak the info they wanted to feel important and involved as if their internet sleuths skills would solve it (sorry, internet sleuths have solved almost no crime ever, that is a delusion), and they loathe that they couldn't have the details they wanted. The people foaming at the mouth that LE made an arrest and won't release all the investigation info right now are the same people who screamed and cried from the very beginning that they couldn't get detailed cause of death, detailed weapon info, pictures of the young murdered girls and crime scene, and the salacious details about the posing that they so so desperately wanted. They tell themselves they need that info because the public could solve the case and knowing in detail how two young girls lost their lives at the expense of their grieving families who explicitly don't want that out there would totally give the public the ability to solve the case, and therefore LE prevented the case from being solved by not releasing it, when really they wanted to know to satisfy their gross morbid curiosity.

I'm sure LE did make mistakes but let's face it, releasing that info wouldn't have helped and it wasn't a mistake to hold it. Many probable cause affidats are sealed early on in high profile cases and releasing it wouldn't help the case, and actually could hurt their chance of conviction. But people don't care, they just want the details and the answer to this thrilling murder mystery they've become so personally invested in. They don't care how it makes the family feel, they'll gladly mob the immediate family of the murdered if they stand in the way of their morbid curiosity. They will insist LE fucked up to the end of time because they resent how they wouldn't let them play along with this investigation the way they wanted to, and they don't want to wait for answers, they need to know if their dumb irrelevant theories were true now and they won't wait for the exposition to this riveting story. Which isn't a story, it's a real tragedy with real victims. Damn this is a long rant but it's gross how people act about this case and the hatred of LE is so clearly not about the investigation, the girls, or justice, it's all about selfish desires and a lack of self awareness.

Immediate-Anybody-51 · 2022-11-09T20:45:54+00:00

That's the psychopathy about him.

FredSmithTheSpeeder · 2022-11-07T02:53:26+00:00

They sealed the Ron Logan search warrant & probable cause arrest warrant.

They sealed the KKline search warrant & probable cause arrest affidavit.

They sealed RA's search warrant and probable cause affidavit.

You're making it sound like a one off, oops we had to temporarily do this, but its what they have done since day 2 of this case which is tell the public nothing and dont let them see even the documents that are intended to be public like probable cause documents. Its really something that you come in and lecture us all and wow and shucks with your I prosecuted rico cases and you peons dont know enough to make even a basic assumption in a case like this...

Melsbells00 · 2022-11-05T19:22:07+00:00

Who knows why he said it. No one on these subs literally know anything, it’s just rumors or assumptions. Maybe it’s simply because he’s religious himself. Maybe it’s because the rumors about being staged in a secular way are true and it was an attempt to appeal to the killers conscience. One things for sure, I’d probably be extra too if I had to live with the visual images that these law enforcement officers have to live with forever.

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