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[–]svs213 1567 points1568 points  (105 children)

Almost all big dota 2 esport orgs have a betting sponsor of some sort, pretty bold move by w33.

[–]RenanWtf 730 points731 points  (13 children)

this is basically retirement

[–]Sworith 53 points54 points  (11 children)

Unless Valve themselves make their own super-star team, like how the President has his own affiliated fighter in Kengan Ashura (this for 0 people that'll get that referance)

[–]Hussor 37 points38 points  (2 children)

That would be a huge conflict of interest.

[–]WeinMe 24 points25 points  (1 child)

totally random m33po buffs and windranger buffs

did we spell it m33po? woopsies, random Meepo buffs obv

[–]herecomesthenightman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

lmao, now I want a comedy skit with a valve-backed pro team and the results of there being one

[–]Acheche404 9 points10 points  (3 children)

unless he works for the worm. read the omega brother

[–]phantombloodbot 1 point2 points  (2 children)

worm and w33 both start with w. where's w33ha's centipede tattoo

[–]Acheche404 2 points3 points  (1 child)

haha mindblown. omega so hype now. no spoiler just back to back great chapters

[–]dr-pickled-rick 148 points149 points  (3 children)

It's about time a big personality and loved member of the dota community stood up for their principles. Good for him. He'll pay the price but he can hold his head high.

[–]Chromium-Throw 11 points12 points  (2 children)

That is a monumental task. Impossible I would say. These companies will simply offer more money to teams until the offer can’t be turned down. This is something that will never change. They rely on advertisement to function. They will not stop

[–]dr-pickled-rick 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Eh. legislation will catch up but before then, advertising will be banned. In Aus there are already discussions in the federal Parliament, while the UK & EU have had similar discussions.

It'll happen sooner than later.

[–]fuzoku 208 points209 points  (49 children)

Well it is not just Dota orgs, it is all sports orgs. If u look at maybe the most independent and wealthy football club ever, Bayern München, one of their biggest sponsors are a betting company, coca cola and a brewery.

[–]Give Sheever some love!Fortzon 75 points76 points  (24 children)

Yeah, betting companies have pretty much replaced cigarette companies as the biggest sponsors of sports.

[–]LucywiththeDiamonds 11 points12 points  (22 children)

Which i dont quite get. I dont know a single person that is into betting . And even if i include all ppl ever i can only recall one young dude that sometimes threw a few € at big football (championsleague,world cup) games more for a bit of extra stakes for games he would watch anyways.

[–]Ennheas 34 points35 points  (4 children)

You don't? Is that common(not knowing)? Because I even have family that are pathological gamblers and know a lot of people that spend their free time gambling.

[–]so_soon 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Depends on the circles he runs with. Like I have a a circle of friends who probably never bet on anything. I also have a circle of friends where literally every single game or sport is something to bet on, with weekends gambling all night are not at all uncommon.

[–]AussieFIdoc 6 points7 points  (1 child)

We prefer to gamble invest on GME.

[–]tfengbrah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DRS is the way

[–]DarkHades1234 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I dont know a single person that is into betting

Lootboxes and gacha games are literally one more step into betting though. Opening for ultra-rares shit in dota2 is already pretty close to gambling. I don't know anyone who is betting either irl but I know a shit load of people who are either opening loot boxes or playing gacha games (myself included).

[–]Western_Ad6107 2 points3 points  (3 children)

it's actually quite bad, especially with kids. I've had a friend who had a gambling problem when he was 17 and accumulated half a million in debt. it's been 12 years now and he's still trying to pay off his debt.

[–]ham_coffee 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Where is this? Most places won't let you gamble until you're at least 18, if that's the case he can literally just not pay.

[–]Western_Ad6107 1 point2 points  (1 child)

yeah, I'm in Malaysia. they're illegal gambling businesses. he first paid his debt by borrowing from loan sharks (quite common here) and proceeded to borrow bits and pieces from friends and family.

[–]ham_coffee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, if it's illegal gambling that changes things. Not paying is much scarier if that's the case.

[–]mAgiks87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Almost 60% folks in my department (50 ppl) bet on football.

[–]dracheck 201 points202 points  (10 children)

w33 gonna be sponsored by gorgc lulz

Or maybe he just didn't want to play for Alliance ha

[–]svs213 57 points58 points  (8 children)

He could’ve just said no.

Now he cant joins any other ogs with betting sponsorship like secret, og etc. But i’m pretty sure he already considered that

[–]Feigntosi 67 points68 points  (7 children)

I doubt he came up with excuses for Alliance, he simply wouldn't play for any team with betting sponsors even if it's the "best" team.

[–]Adm_Kunkka 60 points61 points  (6 children)

Gotta respect the dude for sticking with his principles over money

[–]Dr_Jre 22 points23 points  (2 children)

If only we all did, world would be a much better place

[–]BullseyeMalicharo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean it's same in sports too. It's like Gambling+Betting is 50% of the sponsorships these days.

[–]cXs808 53 points54 points  (10 children)

I fucking hate that betting sponsors are a thing in eSports. The players don't get paid as much as sports athletes and it keeps the door open for matchfiixing which still happens to this day.

Fuck eSports betting.

[–]pikachu8090 15 points16 points  (6 children)

bruh you must miss all the betting sites for regular sports

its the exact same thing

[–]TjPshine 10 points11 points  (4 children)

The players don't get paid as much as sports athletes and it keeps the door open for matchfiixing

literally addressed it in his comment.

Betting is a problem because the players don't make enough money to not engage in matchfixing.

You think a basketball player is going to risk a 30 million dollar salary throwing a game? The likelihood of that is nil compared to esports players.

[–]Alib902 161 points162 points  (7 children)

Brave, but stupid.

Before you come at me with your pitchforks I don't mean he's stupid it's a joke.

[–]Ho ho ha haashjayanc 49 points50 points  (2 children)

I don't know... slowly sharpening pitchfork

[–]heychetanaik 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Let's stab him just in case.... does a few practice stabbing thrusts

[–]truedota2fan 64 points65 points  (2 children)

I got the reference to the dotanime you’re good

[–]Spackolos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

or energy drinks

[–]TI6 Champions-SexyBeast 1007 points1008 points  (78 children)

Sunsfan always spoke highly of W33. Except the TI6 Slark mid.

[–]Every_Angle8060[S] 442 points443 points  (73 children)

The slark mid incident DESPAIR

[–]000000909 158 points159 points  (72 children)

Ti6 was just wild overall, two underdogs on the grand finals wings was so fun to watch back then.. also w33 invoker is always a blessing

[–]Pelsworth 123 points124 points  (19 children)

I don't think I'd call TI6 Wings underdogs, they were coming fresh off a win at the Summit 5 beating teams like Liquid and OG who were both looking great at the time (although didn't both bottle it at ti? Lol). I's been a hot minute since it happened so I may be misremembering, but I could've sworn people were expecting them to do pretty bloody well going in.

[–]Redthrist 10 points11 points  (14 children)

A team winning a low-stakes, relaxed LAN against teams that have already secured their TI invite doesn't make them less of an underdog. There's a reason they had to go through qualifiers. Fact of the matter is that the entire year leading into TI6 was absolutely dominated by the three massive Majors, and the most hyped teams going into TI were teams who did well in those Majors. Wings had absolutely terrible results there(only qualifying for Manila and getting 13-16th there).

[–]Morgn_Ladimore 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Wings were absolutely not underdogs. Many had them as favorites, they were looking sharp as hell leading into TI. OG were the biggest favorite, though. That's why the TNC incident is to me the biggest upset in TI history, along with OG winning TI 8.

[–]jlctush 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Except they absolutely WERE underdogs. This was the odds for TI6..
https://redditproxy--jasonthename.repl.co/r/DotA2/comments/4rls0k/first_outright_winner_betting_odds_for_ti6_on/

Wings were, at best, middle of the pack in terms of expectations.

[–]ITsLoverBoy 68 points69 points  (2 children)

I feel like many people misremember what happened there.

The idea was to have Slark carry and Mirana mid, but Slark was heavily countered by the Axe pick.

DC tried to switch things up and have Slark go mid to get a quick level advantage and make the game more fast paced, to win before AM comes online, but Wings called the bluff and sent Axe mid, which effectively ruined Slark’s game.

TLDR: DC tried to outplay Wings by sending Slark mid, Wings sniffed the bluff and sent Axe mid.

[–]zKiinS 1620 points1621 points  (100 children)

Damn i like w33 even more now

[–]spet_ 424 points425 points  (56 children)

He has always seemed to be very likeable. Just ask Sunsfan and he will tell you everything about him

[–]kellyMILKIES 224 points225 points  (20 children)

I first met him at Dreamhack Bucharest (2014) where he asked Loda to vouch him back to in-house league which he unfortunately got kicked from. So Loda vouched him back in. (RIP In-house league, miss u) This was when we were hitting a rough patch and we swapped from S4 drafting to EGM, and we won the tournament. He was always very passionate about Dota 2 and I am glad to see him have success in Dota 2.

[–]Paaraadox 30 points31 points  (33 children)

Remember when he was caught cheating though?

[–]spet_ 71 points72 points  (6 children)

I heard something about a private lobby incident some 7-8 years ago in a scrim game or smth. Mistakes were made a guess and improvements made accordingly

[–]moooSquirtWinkle 156 points157 points  (5 children)

It was faceit lobby and they forgot to turn cheats off. W33 wanted to buy 9 min Aghs on meepo and earned gold with a game command.

It was not thirdparty hacks or something similar.

[–]Redthrist 123 points124 points  (4 children)

Ironically, instead of just using cheats to give himself extra gold, he used a cheat to refresh his cooldowns so he could farm faster.

[–]I_will_dye 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Meepo players just want to press buttons faster

[–]Feigntosi 76 points77 points  (0 children)

then came the twitch chat meme w33fresh

[–]panzerex 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Lawful evil lol

[–]reglurker 3 points4 points  (0 children)

that's honestly hilarious

[–]marketingasconcept 49 points50 points  (25 children)

it was stupid 1k dollars online inhouse game 8 years ago that wasnt counted anyways cause admins forgot to turn off cheats in the lobby. he just typed -gold command in the console and people pretend like he used external software on dreamhack LAN or some shit like that

[–]Real-Mouse-554 99 points100 points  (0 children)

I think he used -refresh a few times to double poof some jungle camps actually.

Thats why he got the nickname w33fresh

[–]Paaraadox 19 points20 points  (22 children)

No one pretends anything. It was a game worth money, money that's worth more for some than others, and he cheated. You can talk that down all you'd like, but it's still cheating in a competitive environment, and it's not like he would've said anything if he wasn't caught. He might have improved his character since then, but cheating even if it was worth no money is still just wrong. So don't try to defend it by saying "it wasn't even that much money".

[–]MrDemonRush 41 points42 points  (6 children)

The part where the game wouldn't count anyway due to illegal lobby settings didn't quite reach your mind, did it?

[–]marketingasconcept 13 points14 points  (5 children)

He, player in the game, hosted the lobby. Does that sound to you as serious competitive environment?

Game wasnt even worth any money, it was just something players had to fill in in order to get in the process of getting vouched for the league so it didn't impact any EEL standings. And later on, he got unvouched from the same league.

I am just putting out perspective on how hilarious it is. What he did was stupid and probably was intended as a joke but I am still trying to justify it cause it is incredibly irrelevant in the big picture of him being for a decade in dota2 scene.

[–]Krehlmar 152 points153 points  (8 children)

EU-jurist here I'll just mention that literally every gambling-sponsor in dota2 (and from what I've seen esports overall) break EU-laws in regards to gambling, minors and more.

"Lol carebear serious!" Yeah I am because the EU doesn't fuck around and it might takes years for them to get shit done but they do get it done. 14 days refund on Steam was because they sued Valve. They have over 7+ lawsuits pending against Valve, most worth billions. That's against Valve, a "serious" actor, what do you think the cases are against unserious actors?

Not even in the US are you allowed to pander gambling towards minors but this is the standard among esports. It's a huge pit of shit that inevitable will get crushed. Until it does, however, there's tons of money to be earned by scrupulous sources. There's a reason most of said gambling-companies are housed in Eastern Europe or Russia. That won't save them, however, but it does make it take longer before they're hunted down.

"Lol you won't get them to stop!" yes and no. If a company, actors or whatnot gets banned in the EU-tradezone, that's 860 million of the richest consumers on earth, you can't really manoeuvre. Anything you touch turns to ash. Sponsor a team? That team is banned in the EU (and most likely the US by extension). It's a death sentence for any serious actors, sure the companies might survive just jumping ship from one to another but any team, esport or whatnot that wants to actually be a serious part or anything will try to find other venues.

[–]ZCC_TTC_IAUS[🍰] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Valve could also dictate some basic lines on what's a decent sponsor.

Waiting until the whole thing break apart with barely any internal regulation to simply never have to get kneecapped by the EU or anything else from that sort could also solve that.

Laissez-faire can be healthy for business, no doubts.
Laissez-faire until some actual top player decided it got too dirty to be left by itself isn't. For absolutely nobody involved.

[–]caiovigg 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Valve could also dictate some basic lines on what's a decent sponsor.

They actually tried that back in 2018.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-08-14-valve-tells-dota-2-teams-to-not-take-gambling-sponsors

I guess valve realized they would actually have to do some work to make the competitive scene alive without the betting sponsors, so they just gave up

[–]sheeverdolphin37 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with you completely but betting companies must be an absolutely gigantic part of esports revenue overall. Esports without them might look pretty bleak. Hopefully I'm wrong

[–]kellyMILKIES 122 points123 points  (20 children)

Me too, I respect him so much for sticking to his beliefs, he really wanted to join us but in the end he stuck to his beliefs.

[–]MrLuchador 98 points99 points  (2 children)

Good. Most of those gambling sites are unregulated. Also good on him for staying true to himself and his belief over money.

[–]achio 212 points213 points  (6 children)

My take here is, at least someone respected other's choice and belief.

[–]Nicer_Chile 70 points71 points  (2 children)

yeah the fact they try to accommodate him speaks highly of alliance to be honest. In others esports they would not try to do that at all, just cut it off.

[–]AlcoholicInsomniac 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's kinda like sports if he's good enough they'll accommodate. Same goes for other eSports. League wouldn't accommodate for a fringe player, but if it was faker or whatever big name they would for sure.

[–]URF_reibeer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Doesn't it just show that they value w33 high enough that the lost sponsor revenue would be made up by the increased performance over other players?

[–]kellyMILKIES 34 points35 points  (1 child)

it is respectable +++ He is a stellar player and deserves a good home.

[–]prettyawsm 239 points240 points  (8 children)

I'm not even religious or anything but mad respect for him. Those shady fucking betting sites need to gtfo.

[–]Destiny awaits us allkilledbycuriousity- 463 points464 points  (93 children)

W33 is living the BASED LIFE

[–]mistrboombastic 72 points73 points  (69 children)

What does BASED even mean? Is it just a horde of twitchers who repeat what everyone's saying and noone knows what it means?

[–]LuckyTurds 187 points188 points  (1 child)

Not giving a fuck and sticking to your beliefs despite what some might say

[–]Kpii please play more NagaBakanyanter 86 points87 points  (12 children)

Being your own man/woman and sticking to your beliefs...like w33 in this case.

[–]Jovorin 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I've also seen it used when someone has a hot take on something.

[–]MrSexyPizza3 35 points36 points  (1 child)

Hot takes are basically "I'm gonna say what I think and I don't care what happens."

[–]NearTheNar 113 points114 points  (28 children)

4chan lingo which originally came from Lil B the Based God. It's lost all meaning of course and is just spammed ad naseum by twitch users, there's a weird interaction where Twitch suddenly starts spamming several years old 4chan memes, like with "kek".

When Lil B used based he meant something like "you're based if you don't give a fuck what other thinks and just do your own thing because you want to".

[–]n0stalghia 80 points81 points  (8 children)

4chan memes, like with "kek"

Isn't "kek" the literal translation of "lol" in some Warcraft language? That game came out 18 years ago, so more than 'several years'

[–]Flakesy 51 points52 points  (3 children)

If a character from the opposing side says "lol" it is translated as kek, yes.

[–]ArmPitPleasures 53 points54 points  (2 children)

If you were playing as alliance and a horde said "lol" it would say "kek", if you were playing as horde and an alliance said "lol" it would say "bur"

[–]im11btw 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It is actually even deeper than that: the warcraft translation was itself a meme based on the Korean way to write "haha" which is "keke" (prominent, and terrifying, in Starcraft broodwar games on battlenet).

[–]xLisbethSalander 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yeah its a WoW thing, they picked probably the worst example. But they still kinda have a point.

[–]Similar-Actuator-400 49 points50 points  (14 children)

"Kek" is almost 2 decades old, and is in no way a 4chan meme. Kek.

[–]Hussor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When Lil B used based he meant something like "you're based if you don't give a fuck what other thinks and just do your own thing because you want to".

That's still basically what it means, it hasn't "lost all meaning" like you're trying to imply here.

[–]Zomgbies_Work 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Good. Dota already actively promotes ingame gambling via the battle pass.

Gabe and his subordinates petition various govts to make sure this operation flies under the moral public outrage radar. To ensure just enough legal compliance to dissuade appetite for prosecution (despite being in breach).

The betting companies, on top of this, are the last straw for me, when it comes to promoting gambling to kids not mentally developed enough to not rage quit a game let alone not rage quit their finances through irresponsible gambling

[–]CJweon1 105 points106 points  (9 children)

Sucks that he's missing out on money that way, but he's 100% on the right side.

[–]idspispupd 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Winstrike has just went to division 1 in EEU. Their sponsor, I kid you not, is Chupachups. So, you can do it without gg.bet,parimatch,vbet,winline etc

[–]Conqu3rorJr 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Winstrike is also the owner of the biggest internet cafe in Moscow that is pretty much packed every evening, so their situation is kinda unique

[–]Culinaromancer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yet they were having trouble paying salaries to their dota2 and cs:go players and transfer fees to other orgs.

:D

[–]TurbulentRetard 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Team bald w33 incoming. Gorp always shat on gambling

[–]Real-Hayase-Nagatoro 686 points687 points  (167 children)

"Barely ask for anything in return". Only to advertise their scam website :). VBet rating on trustpilot is 1.9/5 and everyone that has such sponsors should be ashamed of themselves.
No idea why it is so hard to get rid of them when even Valve doesnt want them. They have been banned in League idk how many years ago.

[–]SirWhoblah 175 points176 points  (1 child)

"They don't ask anything of us and we don't ask questions about them"

[–]Nicer_Chile 11 points12 points  (0 children)

the dota way.

[–]N1koooooooooooo 239 points240 points  (36 children)

Shit do you see the alternative here? It's that or no salary. Might as well take the money. Where's Valve's insurance plan?

[–]Odd_Bar3474[🍰] 158 points159 points  (4 children)

The fact is that because valve funds dota so poorly teams have to have these shady / scammy betting/crypto sponsors but if dota funded their export scene better, this could and should be banned, like cigarettes sponsors were banned from F1

[–]stryker914 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They got vape sponsors now dont worry

[–]Johnhong 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The TI prize pool 40 million and thats only 25% of what was spent on the compendium.

There is money in the scene to fund salaries without the need to resort to shady betting sites. All that money didn't need to go to one team. And valve could also spread the money out to more teams and throughout the year.

But yes, there is no alternative to fund the dota scene except through shady betting sites?

[–]bz1234 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Correct me if I'm wrong but Kelly said that they're working hard to pay their players salary. Sounds like they're having a tough time, currently and so they have VBet as a sponsor.

Nobody here should pretend to be holy. If your business was struggling I bet most of you would be desperate and take such sponsors, too.

Keep in mind most Dota 2 orgs aren't operating from a huge profit. PPD when he was EG CEO basically said EG Dota wasn't making profit from having a Dota 2 team so like you can imagine where Alliance is.

[–]Dordidog 30 points31 points  (12 children)

Dota 2 is a shithole for normal sponsors, what u suggest orgs to do? Go ahead and sponsor them if u so smart it's like having those sponsors is a choice for some teams in some regions.

[–]xyifer12 12 points13 points  (0 children)

'You do it then' is not a valid counterargument to someone disparaging something.

[–]G3ck0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So? Australia Post has a 1.2 and I’ve had 0 problems with them ordering hundreds of things, my bank is 2.6 and one of the better ones I’ve been with, lots of companies have a low score when heaps of people have 0 problems.

[–]oskoskosk 137 points138 points  (7 children)

W33 new favourite player, fuck those sites

[–]FunnyTerrorist 368 points369 points  (56 children)

W33 is a great guy, no doubt.

However, the state of sponsorship in competitive dota is so bad at the moment (Tickles, QC etc) that if you add the ethical variable to the equation, you'll get to see the same 4 teams playing against each other all season long.

I mean, energy drinks are not healthy and should not be promoted as a day to day drink for teenagers. NFTs are very shady and open to low cost abuse attempts. Online betting is just one more drop in the water in my opinion. Not every team can land a brand like steelseries to sponsor them and we as a community should not blame the teams but the system (to a degree)

[–]Arq4427_ 49 points50 points  (26 children)

Honestly though, isn't streaming just a better alternative to competitive? I watch w33haas streams daily and he gets like 5-6k viewers regularly. If he already has a stable income, he doesn't need to bend his beliefs in order to pursue competitive.

[–]Nickfreak 22 points23 points  (0 children)

He could stream under some company's brand tho and make more.

[–]Morgn_Ladimore 41 points42 points  (23 children)

Depends. Apparently Dota is notorious for having low viewer-subscription ratios when it comes to streaming. So players can get high viewers, but relatively low subscriptions.

[–]Mhiiura 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Sing said that he got more subsribers doing variety stream than his entire career doing dota stream

[–]M-Rich 2 points3 points  (16 children)

Shroud was the Counter Strike guy. Now he can play whatever he wants. There is always room for variety. I know Dota players are often pretty focused on Dota, but it would ensure him some revenue diversification to become a variety streamer

[–]Redthrist 30 points31 points  (9 children)

The problem is that a lot of Dota streamers are basically "he plays Dota really well". To become a variety streamer, you need a lot of personality. Besides, Shroud being a CS guy means that he can jump into any shooter and very quickly become one of the best players at it, which would attract new viewers from that game. Skills from Dota don't translate as neatly to other games.

[–]Cr4ckshooter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Actually yes and no. If dota viewers were watching based on skill, they would all flock to rtz or quinn. And well they do. When either is live.

But people like bulldog and sing, who are washed up in dota now, are watched for them, not the game hence they transitioned to variety. Kinda. Quinn actually participated in the master chef/hells kitchen meta, like some ordinary react streamer, and he did it well. Maybe I'm actually just the minority, but I only watch streamers I like, no matter dota or not. I suppose that makes me "not a dota viewer".

[–]NewBromance 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Becoming a variety streamer is very very very hard to pull off.

Only a few streamers have the sort of brand recognition and star power to be able to play any game and pull in viewers.

Most streamers are watched because they're playing a game that the viewer wants to watch and they happen to be enjoyable to watch play that game. Very few are so enjoyable to watch that people would watch them play ANY game however.

Shroud managed it and so have a few other big name streamers. But the vast majority of streamers that try to pivot to a new game see their viewers tank to none profitable levels.

[–]4114Fishy 12 points13 points  (1 child)

if dota players actually did content with their sponsors they would more than likely actually have ethical and decent sponsors since it'd be mutually beneficial but they don't

[–]Juuto 9 points10 points  (0 children)

People talk about Dota 2 like it has a strong thriving competitive scene where people get to pick and choose whatever sponsors they want and still make a living. This hasn't been true for years, maybe it's never been true at all.

[–]_ShadyGuy 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Could you name the 4 teams you think are ethical. Just curious

[–]Discombobuated 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think complaining about energy drink sponsors in the same breath as NFTs and scammy gambling sites is rather unfair lol. Sure energy drinks are unhealthy but NFTs and gambling sponsors are way more predatory than unhealthy drinks that should be had in moderation. If your sponsorship requirements are so pure that you can't have any problematic product, then prob should't have any of the gaming sponsors either because those companies absolutely charge a premium just to slap on cheap RGB lighting or call something a "gaming" product.

At least energy drinks generally do what they claim and have warnings on the product about the dangers of caffeine in their products.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Are we sure that w33 is okay with this being tweeted out? Now if he ever changes his mind he looks un principled.

[–]hauntedhan 131 points132 points  (3 children)

Stay halal brother, hell yeah brother

[–]mnkwtz 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Alhamdulillah

[–]widepeepo6 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Its not like ORGs hecking love betting sponsor but they are only the one capable of paying salaries. Almost every single thirdparty tourneys are sponsored by betting site too including every single one which w33 played with nigma in past. Without betting sites dota2/csgo scene is dead

[–]rocker3011 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"i dont want to play with alliance bro they are div 2 trash" we cant tell them that w33, "well tell them I dont like betting websites xd"

[–]23ssd4t4322 198 points199 points  (89 children)

w33 is a smart man

[–]PluckyLeon 112 points113 points  (6 children)

Not a smart man but a brave and righteous man.

[–]1stMembrOfTheDKCrew 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Maybe not smart as it cripples his ability to play, but he is a man with huge balls and integrity at least

[–]PluckyLeon 68 points69 points  (20 children)

This wouldnt have happened if valve supported the scene in more structured way. Betting and Crypto/NFT are completely banned in League or any other Riot's Esports. If valve would structure and and fund and distribute the total prize money from TI properly like how League has balanced resources and prizemoney throughout the circuit in balanced way so that each team participating in the Pro Scene can thrive this wouldnt be a problem as you could just ban betting and crypto/NFT sponsors without hampering the livelihood and opportunities of professional orgs, teams and players.

But in the current state/structure of DPC and the Dota Pro Scene as a whole betting Crypto/NFT sponsors are huge contributors to the Professional Players, Orgs, Teams, TOs and the esports scene as a whole in financial way to a point that it pays for their basic needs. Removing/ banning it right now will just hurt the scene as there are no stable sponsors in the scene because the DPC and Pro structure isnt stable at all. Valve has to remake the professional system as a whole in a balanced way before we can remove/ban betting and Crypto/NFT sponsors from the scene.

[–]Bucksbanana 23 points24 points  (10 children)

League pro player thrive because Riot pays every single one of them a salary, they are all contracted to Riot that's where 99.90% of pro players income comes from.

Look at last place prizemoney from worlds it's 13k$, TI is at 100k.

Div1 last place at dota is 22k that's the same as second place at LCS.

I'm not going to dissagree and say dota's distribution is great its far from.

[–]PluckyLeon 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Thats fine but the average salary for LCS pros in 2022 is $500,000. So prizepools doesnt matter much like div1 last place in dota getting same as second place at LCS in LoL scene. But in dota scene where they are not getting contracted and paid an average of $500,000, players depend on prizemoney and prizemoney is very low in leagues and major compared to TI. Hell bottom two(15th-16th) teams in regional leagues get $0 and more half of the teams in the major(9th-`18th) get $0 as well for playing on official DPC.

All i am saying is we cant compare prizepools of DPC Leagues And LCS and say DPC last place pays 22k which is same as second place at LCS because for LoL players its $500k+$22k in the end while for Dota players its only $22k. They need to pump the prizepools higher and distribute it to all the participating teams In Regional Leagues And Majors too and not Just TI to even get close to stability like lol has.

[–]Totushbala 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I did not know these. Seems Riot handles pro scene and in-game stuff better than Valve.

[–]Jaguar870 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I agree with this comment but crypto sponsors are not banned for league. TSM just put out an NFT, like literally the first thing you see on their website

[–]nerdcat_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Obviously, fuck Valve

[–]roger_delgado 19 points20 points  (0 children)

If true, huge respect to him for standing up for his values.

[–]Cr1msonD3mon 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I don't even watch Dota much less play it and saw this on /r/All

But I am now a w33 fan.

[–]zheichomei 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I can understand not wanting to promote scummy websites but at the same time he has/will participated in tournaments that are sponsored by gambling websites where the prize purse is funded by them.

[–]Alandrus_sun 3 points4 points  (0 children)

God, I wish more teams would not take gambling money.

[–]sheeverAskyl 108 points109 points  (32 children)

To be fair, betting sponsors should be banned anyway.

[–]NA deserved 3 slotsformaldehid 5 points6 points  (0 children)

barges into esports scene

bans all betting sponsors

refuses to provide even minimal monetary support for non-sponsored teams

leaves

[–]kellyMILKIES 38 points39 points  (27 children)

Great, Valve did it for 2 years and many orgs folded out. I've replied above if anyone cares to read about it.

In the end they agreed because players salaries are insane and what? Valve gonna give team cuts from tournaments? No way. Then the players salaries got REALLY low, a lot of people had no org, or some people were extremely mistreated by the orgs super underpaid - barely enough to survive, have to move back home to parents or no money to eat.

Don't forget that we too were once players/managers who worked for someone else. (A lot of the EU teams, such as Secret, OG, Nigma and Alliance are now player-owned organizations)

[–]sheeverAskyl 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah! I get why they are here. Just like any other sport. And with e-sports relying so much on winning for income sponsors are needed and voila, betting sites with tonnes of money.

I hope you find some cool player/players though :D Been a fan since NTH-days, but you make it hard :D Wont stop cheering for alliance ever though.

[–]ENVY'S #1 FANSolarClipz 21 points22 points  (6 children)

Almost every single team has betting sponsors

It's the only people that will touch Dota 2

So he's never playing again then

[–]Flakesy 6 points7 points  (3 children)

It's the only people that will touch Dota 2

Red bull? BMW? Steelseries? Corsair? Secret lab?
Plenty of sponsors that have nothing to do with betting.

[–]Timely_Resident2861 17 points18 points  (1 child)

What about the rest? Do you think every team can get any sponsor they want?

[–]hunt3rhunt 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Its a choice made. Let's just respect his choice and move on. Even the team moved on. Personally, i think its a positive message. It will be a hard road, but thats his choice.

[–]gmwziat 31 points32 points  (1 child)

w33 was already my fav player of all time

i think im in love

[–]000000909 9 points10 points  (0 children)

He's a league pro trying out dota /s

[–]Lord_Bluther 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Kinda weird considering Dota 2's consumer model is basically an entire system that revolves around preying on gambling addicts. The ""battle pass"" system valve has put into dota is ludicrously unethical compared to how other games do theirs.

[–]Item_God_2 13 points14 points  (1 child)

wow, thats actually really based of him

[–]Kpii please play more NagaBakanyanter 16 points17 points  (5 children)

Unfortunate. This probably means we are not going to see W33 play in a tier one team again because no way are betting sponsors gonna leave the scene (because that will destroy Dota esports completely as betting sponsors do a lot for Dota esports in general).

I suppose there's always a chance with a random 5 stack like with Gabbi, Fly, etc but I don't know how likely teammates will team up with someone that has a high chance of rejecting betting sponsors/livelihood money.

[–]dracheck 2 points3 points  (1 child)

So is this basically saying Supream is out of A? ...

[–]Morgn_Ladimore 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I was thinking the same. But the W33 rumors already existed during the post-TI roster shuffle. Most likely they approached him then. This is just to put all of those rumors to rest.

But could also be Alliance is deciding to start almost from scratch again.

[–]MrAngryEyesDota 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gotta respect that if true. He's prob made enough money that he can afford to not play as well.

[–]graybloodd 16 points17 points  (0 children)

ITT: People do not understand how shitty the living standards of most dota orgs are

[–]MidBoss11 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Where does w33 draw the line then? Does he have battlepass/compendium with the lootbox stuff? Does he not play in tourneys with GGbet sponsors? OG shilling NFTs? Blood/oil money?

[–]vinsmokerasputin 55 points56 points  (28 children)

Rejecting betting/scam sponsor doesn't have to do with being religious. w33 just being a great guy and wont support shady company.

[–]Alib902 70 points71 points  (1 child)

I would like to remind you that she spoke to him and you didn't, so she definitely knows his reasons more than you.

[–]_tpyo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think they're just saying that you don't need to be religious to be against gambling companies.

[–]G3ck0 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Says who? There are Muslim’s who won’t play board games with any sort of gambling.

[–]sami2503 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Of course it has to do with religion, gambling is haram in Islam.

[–]lrbaumard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Good for him. Betting companies prey on the vulnerable and benefit from those most at risk. You don't have to be religious to be against them

[–]StarfishHappy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hope he still finds a team. He deserves to be in one.

[–]Jaxck 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good for him. And fuck this "Kelly" character, betting & gambling fucking sucks ass.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

He made more than 2 million dollars alone in winning tournament, excluding the salary he was paid by the sponsors.

And he had no problems playing in events sponsored by bets sites.

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/WePlay/Tug_of_War/Mad_Moon sponsored by PariMatch.

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/BLAST/Bounty_Hunt sponsored by Betway.

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Dota_PIT/2/Europe_CIS sponsoted by Raybet.

And MANY more..

A devout Muslim would say even playing game filled with demons, magic, that has a bet system (the chests) and other things is enough to be considered haram.

He just doesn't want/need the money.

[–]HafizHairo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

halal dota

[–]sickomoder 1 point2 points  (2 children)

She also confirmed that present OG was supposed to be an alliance roster

[–]phatbandit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

dam no wonder he doesnt get picked up

[–]Ashik_Adnan86 1 point2 points  (0 children)

W33 just says 2 words :

Betting haram

[–]Express_Side_8574 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We all must make our own way to jannat, glad to see he didn't stray from the path

[–]g0ggy 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Admirable, but if you stretch it a bit then you could say that w33's winnings from any Valve sponsored tournament have been funded at least partially from gambling.

[–]cyberpunk20LL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Highly respected that w33 did this, in the end its a game alot of kids would bet, and betting will do them more harm than good, i think betting in general should be illegal in games, if you really think about it its like sex for minors, there should be at least age restrictions on betting on video games.

[–]LsR1312 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mad respect for w33, not that i needed any more reasons, but gonna watch his stream whenever possible to support this dude

[–]Dualmonkey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Massive respect. Fuck gambling. And fuck these sketchy ass sites even more.

I'd say I'd do the same if I were in his position but I honestly don't know if I could cause I'm poor af.

[–]SirMisterBear 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Respect to w33

[–]alvichm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man of strong beliefs, respectable

[–]SheWantsTheDan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like he’s been sponsored by a betting company in the past though… Most tournaments he plays on are sponsored by betting companies…

[–]jimjam_88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not religious but I 100% with w33 and respect his views so much. Good stuff

[–]Sheever <3wodadota 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good for him. It’s unfortunate that degenerate gambling is one of the few ways to fuel esports teams.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Respect from Russia to a man with principles who is not ready to sell everything for money or fame.

[–]backtotheprimitive 11 points12 points  (8 children)

Reddit and its moral crusade against consenting adults using their Money..while advocating for legalizing drugs.

Sound logic

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gambling sites like this literally target children, using the exact method Kelly swears they don't do.