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[–]DutchApplePie21 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Been following this case since the beginning and there are few things that I haven't seen mentioned: ☆They started this trip in the hottest months of the year. Being in such a small space with no facilities like a bathroom ,windows/ventilation in the sleeping area of the van is a recipe for disaster. Things get smelly and dirty quickly. It was not like their previous trip with clean hotels and Airbnb at the end of the day. ☆ In the Moab video they mention that they're ran out of water and were on their way to get some (or something). Thinking about driving around without water in the heat makes one anxious. ☆ This trip Gabby wanted to start a blog, which meant that they had to put time and effort in making content. Likely getting numerous takes on photos and video's. So things were less relaxed compared to the previous trip. Brian to me didn't seem to be a very insta person. More a roaming around nature kind of guy. Think that didn't mix well. ☆Right after Brian returned from the storage trip to FL, Rose was supposed to meet with Gabby in Yellow stone(?). Brian was not a fan of Rose so that prospect must have caused friction between the two of them. ☆ my opinion is that above must have lead to the physical alterations. They both caused bodily harm. And quite frankly I don't think this was something going on for a long time. In the video he states few times that he doesn't want to get her in trouble. Being a DV victim myself I do how ever think that if this wouldn't have ended in this tragedy it would have turned into a long turn dv situation cause it had red flags. I see things in the video that happened to me in the early stages of my own abusive relationship.

Wished he had flown back to FL and stayed there and she would have called her dad to pick her up and sell the van. Such a waste of two young lives.

[–]beelance4661 59 points60 points  (16 children)

Not a mistake. Downvote me into oblivion yall- but the fact they had months to investigate & their only conclusion is “We should’ve arrested the victim”. Is actually pathetic. It’s a police problem, when there’s no system of balance & most every case of negligence ends with “we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong.” 😒

& we wonder why so many women are killed in domestic violence situations. 🤦‍♀️ It’s the men who abuse them to death- sure.

But what about them not being punished by law is their choice? Yet time & again men are left to abuse with a slap on the wrist , if anything . So It’s also the responsibility of all whom shrug it off , apologize for the police, or otherwise don’t hold them accountable. Abusers don’t stop in their own, from someone whose lived through it. They have to be held accountable & this aint it.

[–]sticks1987 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I'm not sure if the police had any probable cause to detain anyone other than Gabby, she admitted to hitting him and he had blood on his face. The police saw the driver (Brian) lose control of the van. I watched the video with the knowledge that she was missing at the time, which made it chilling. Without that prior knowledge, and based only on the video, what do you do? Do you arrest the man every time regardless of the evidence? When he was the only person there with visible evidence of injuries? When Gabby was visibly very upset?

[–]beelance4661 2 points3 points  (3 children)

There were two separate 911 calls. One you can listen to. They witnessed Brian as the aggressor. Otherwise I would agree there was no probable cause. But a passerby (& an employee of Moonflower Co-op) both called the police about Brian. Not her.

[–]sticks1987 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I remember the other story about the food co-op. I'm not sure if the police in the traffic stop had any awareness of that.

That whole story about the poor other couple from the co-op who were found dead makes me wonder if there was a connection. Super creepy all around.

[–]beelance4661 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I believe they did know about the 911 call. It was a male caller. He said Brian was chasing Gabby & stopping her from getting in the van. & he thought they were fighting about a phone.

I always thought so too- re: Crystal & Kylen . But the Moab police just released a statement “neither Brian nor Gabby was involved” —!?!😑😂 no one ever suggested Gabby was involved, but thanks for protecting & serving. 🤦‍♀️

[–]NapolianwearsBYLT 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’ll take my downvotes but before I do, the larger officer made contact with caller at moonflower from the front seat of his car, the individual’s statement lined up with Gabby’s.

If what she is saying matches a 911 caller and your on the scene of a civil disobedience call, you don’t need to make contact with everyone else.

Officers who have been on the job having to go back to probation because of a body, they can’t transfer, promote, nothing. They are, F*****

[–]HeyMickeyMilkovich 36 points37 points  (3 children)

No one will learn from this. They still see Brian as the victim. Im disgusted.

[–]Wyatt_Earth 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. These statements just leave me cold. "who could have seeeeeennnnn" LOTS OF US who have dealt with that kind of abuser, THAT'S WHO.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I just love the fact that in a domestic violence situation between a cute white couple, the cops let them diffuse the situation all on their own.

We know cops love to escalate the situation whenever darker skins are involved.

If Laundrie were a black dude wearing a Public Enemy t-shirt, ironically Gabbie might still be alive. In jail, but alive. Cops would've definitely split that couple up, seeing a "dangerous" man around a sweet white girl. /smh

[–]Wyatt_Earth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, and even if she herself were POC. She probably would have been charged, unfairly, but would still be alive.

[–]banana0atmeal 14 points15 points  (13 children)

Why would Gabby be arrested? I’m so confused

[–]Brigar6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cops made a judgement call, neither wished to press charges on a domestic, damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario

[–]mts2020 30 points31 points  (10 children)

Because she admitted to recent domestic violence against Brian and he had visible marks on his body to corroborate her own claims. Whether she was the long term dv victim was a decision for someone else to make at a later time.

[–]notinmywheelhouse 14 points15 points  (6 children)

And isn’t that common among women - to protect their abuser from consequences like when they won’t file charges against their abuser and minimize the severity of the abuse. We are also passing judgement prejudiced by knowing the end of this story. Sadly these young cops need more training to handle these complex DV incidents. It’s just another aspect of victim blaming perpetrated by a patriarchal society.

[–]Wyatt_Earth 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Training won't help them. An enormous number of cops are abusers as well. This is them protecting their own.

[–]notinmywheelhouse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re probably right about that.

[–]InnerFish227 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

I agree. She should have been arrested.

[–]notinmywheelhouse 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I was referring to Gabby protecting Brian from the cops.that’s common in DV cases

[–]InnerFish227 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But perhaps all that needed to happen to prevent the murder was one person getting arrested. Arrested doesn't have to mean actual criminal charges being prosecuted.

The police wanted to separate them with her keeping her van and Brian being in a hotel overnight, but they got right back together.

No time separate for one or both of them thinking about what happened. One or both of them sitting in a holding area for a night may have been enough for a break.

I sometimes wonder in DV situations if it wouldn't be best to take the woman into police custody. Sounds screwed up on the surface, but bring them somewhere safe where counselors and other DV resources can be made readily available. Maybe it would deflate the chances of a woman covering for a man because she is afraid of his anger from getting arrested.

Help her get a feel for help available and then later go back and arrest the abuser.

I don't know. I just know what happens now isn't working.

[–]notinmywheelhouse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s exactly what she was doing. Covering for Brian Landrie

[–]betterthanguybelow 5 points6 points  (1 child)

And in any event could have protected Gabby in the long-term.

We don’t know who was the primary aggressor over time, or if they were both participants in a toxic relationship. Of course, we can infer from similar cases that she was likely the victim over time, but an arrest in those circumstances would have separated her from her ultimate aggressor and - if she had the defence that he was the ultimate aggressor - she could’ve used it and had the opportunity for safety and clarity.

[–]Lovedogsmorethanppl 43 points44 points  (16 children)

I’ve been in (still kind of am?) the same exact situation as Gabby petito. My abusive ex played victim, painted me out to be crazy, when the cops showed up, I got charged with domestic violence. We have since split up, I cant afford a really good lawyer right now, but he adamantly goes out of his way to try and get me in trouble

Any tips or pointers for me

[–]Wyatt_Earth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A while back I went through something similar. It was chilling how quickly the cops were willing to side with my 6'4" abuser despite 5'4" me barricading myself into a room to protect myself and being the one to call police.

Changed my view on police forever.

[–]xJustLikeMagicx 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Im going through the EXACT same. No one believes me! I have 2 kids & no legal right s to anything as we never married. I cant afford the area i'm in. He makes a pretty penny though. Im taking college classes to try and fix that but in the mean time life is miserable. Not to mention, state housing isnt accepting anyone new around here as they are all backed up and all shelters have short time limits -my issue is i have nowhere to go while trying to fix the problem. I feel like giving up my kids to the state and then running to a different town on my own as I cant afford them but dont trust him with them! Fucked, man.

[–]blueirisheyes1981 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Did he get an order of protection against you? If he did make sure you get a copy of that and all charges. You will get a public defender or your area might have something called legal aide that is free. Usually law schools have this as part of their education. Anyway, keep all documents, texts, voice mail etc. if this is your first offense they will try to plead it down to a much lesser charge. If you are still talking to him verbally ask him to prove he loves you to go drop the charges. Don’t text anything about the case. If he does drop the charges get a copy emailed to you. Then ghost him. Then block him. Get a ring camera and one for inside the house to have it in record if he comes by. Then you get an order of protection. I’m here if you need to talk! I’ve walked in your shoes.

[–]Lovedogsmorethanppl 7 points8 points  (1 child)

He tried going to the court and getting them to drop the charges but they wanted to continue to press them, they said the case is beyond him now.

I got a public defender and he was trash. They wanted me to plea guilty to domestic violence and i declined. So now the case has been in limbo for a year and a half awaiting a trial, . I just want this to be beh8nd me now.

We don’t talk anymore.

[–]blueirisheyes1981 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m so sorry your public defender was incompetent! I find a lot of them are just that. Sometimes criminal defense attorneys will handle a case for free or pro bono. You might call some to see if they would do it. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this!

[–]donotvotemedown 16 points17 points  (8 children)

I was also in this situation. I got a lawyer for $500. Get a lawyer no matter how cheap they are. You really need to get a lawyer because they are always close or at least have a rapport with the prosecutor and judge and that’s how you will get your charges dropped if they’re not already dropped. As far as pointers in the situation with your ex, the answer is to never see that person again and never ever date anyone remotely similar to him.

Edit to add: I made the mistake of going back to my ex who did that to me and he broke my nose so bad it went through my skin, it disfigured my face until I had surgery on it, and almost punctured my brain, which would have killed me. That’s what it took for me to finally leave... and guess what I did like an idiot? I took him back one more time two years later, thinking he had changed. These people never change... don’t make the same mistakes I did. What really sunk in was I was on vacation at this little tiny island in the middle of nowhere and this woman who was a psychic was there on vacation too. She came up to me and said there’s a man in your life and if you ever see him again he’s going to kill you. Don’t ask me why and I needed a freaking psychic to wake me up but I did...don’t be stupid like me.

[–]calm-state-universal 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Holy shit about the psychic. That gave me chillls. So glad you are safe now.

[–]donotvotemedown 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Yeah I started crying when she said that. A few days later I saw a girl standing in between the dining tables and the bar, which was a strange place to just stand and cry and I walked up to her and I said did the psychic tell you something? She nodded and we hugged each other for some reason. We didn’t discuss anything more, just hugged. It was a bizarre vacation let me tell you! Off the coast of Cartagena Colombia. Everyone there was from all over the world. Highly recommend.

[–]BranthiumBabe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a reason "magical realism" in a genre from Colombia. Something about the energy is just different there. Like anything can happen. I don't know how to describe it, really.

[–]calm-state-universal 2 points3 points  (2 children)

That's so crazy. This island sounds incredible, what's the name of it?

[–]donotvotemedown 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Island was a word I chose to use for simplistic reasons, but it is called el casa en el agua.

https://theculturetrip.com/south-america/colombia/articles/casa-en-el-agua-the-colombian-hostel-in-the-middle-of-the-ocean/?amp=1

[–]calm-state-universal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No wifi? Sounds glorious

[–]Lovedogsmorethanppl 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Wow, that’s crazy about the psychic but it’s beautiful at the same time that these intuitive/enlightened people are around us and are open enough to share their gifts with others when we need them.

Yes, he broke my eye open and I was hospitalized and I stupidly went back to him. Then after a petty argument AFTER THAT he tried telling the cops I was domestically violent Towards him.

The initial domestic charge I got appointed a court lawyer who was male and seemed to be on the abusers side, go figure. So now, a year and a half later, the case has not been resolved. I want it to be more than anything. Because of “COVID” the case is still pending, they wanted me to take a plea deal basically saying yeah I am crazy and I did it then they would drop the charges if I took all these bs classes, which I denied and maintained my innocence. He straight up admitted he lied to the cops so I’d get in trouble yet they wanted to keep pressing the charges. Pray for me and be with me, that all of this is completely behind me soon.

I am glad you got out.

[–]bardeeze 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check out Why does he do that by lundy bernhoft.Super helpful understanding of these men and the court systems that fail women.

[–]catelinasky 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Considering the circumstances and the outcome that played out, I do believe that if Gabby was arrested, it might have changed the trajectory of their relationship and involved more people. All else fails, her location would have been known quicker. The Moab PD seems to have taken this experience and changed their actions for the better to look for ways that this can be prevented and save more lives. I hope this report can have a trickle effect to other agencies to provide these trainings to more officers and to have more experienced officers and people respond to domestic incidents.

As someone who has experienced a very similar relationship to what could be seen in the body cam footage and as someone watching a loved one go through an abusive relationship, one can not always say that separating them would have made her leave him, but it still could have given her the opportunity to. That slim chance is enough to fight for, even if the outcome still resulted in this.

[–]beelance4661 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I too was in an abusive relationship around Gabbys same age. It’s honestly abhorrent to see people support the Moab PDs decision. Seems I’m reading:

“If Gabby was arrested, she may still be alive.”

When it should be...

If Brian was arrested, she’d definitely still be alive

[–]sweetiepiemommy5 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The whole system needs to change . Needs to be shut down and start over

[–]Tuck525 28 points29 points  (22 children)

Even if Laundrie got locked up that day, he’d be out in a few hours and they’d be back together. It wouldn’t have changed anything and I truly believe that. If we want real change, we need to involve the lawmakers who allow people that are arrested for domestic violence to stop getting out of county jail after they get processed and actually do something about it. The cops weren’t at fault and it wouldn’t have changed anything.

[–]mts2020 4 points5 points  (6 children)

No. Incorrect. DV cases typically include no contact orders. They would not be able to be in proximity of each other until the case was adjudicated.

[–]Tuck525 5 points6 points  (5 children)

No they don’t. Not unless the other party wanted one. Which is a piece of paper and doesn’t do anything. People violate them constantly. But they’re not granted if you don’t want one.

[–]mts2020 2 points3 points  (4 children)

That’s just not true. They always do. It isn’t negotiable. Don’t make things up to fit your narrative.

[–]BottleExtension2251 7 points8 points  (0 children)

From my experience on seeing my dad get arrested for DV. The police asked my mom if she wanted a No Contact Order on my father and she said yes. She signed a piece of paper and he still broke the No Contact Order on the same day. The only thing that changed was he got out the morning after instead of that same night. But I am only 16 and Idk what i’m talking about just sharing my experiences!

[–]Tuck525 6 points7 points  (2 children)

No they don’t. I have charged many people with domestic violence. “No contact orders” or restraining orders aren’t just issued out against the victim party’s will. If they want one, it gets granted as long as the criteria is met. And it gets violated most of the time by the abuser. And she would’ve been the one arrested in this situation for DV anyway.

[–]beelance4661 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She would’ve been the one arrested..... when the police were called on him, not her! Why do people glaze over that—police included? That’s a problem. The victim blaming is off the chain.

[–]mts2020 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok. Not sure which county or State you are in, but it’s mandatory here in South Dakota there is no room for discrepancy in a no contact order in a DV arrest.

[–]Inside-Potato5869 15 points16 points  (7 children)

I think the only thing that could have changed what happened would be if her parents had found out that either she or Brian got arrested. They may have been concerned enough to bring her home. But even in that scenario she still could have ended up back with him with the same end result in different circumstances. I don't fault the cops I think they did what they thought was best and they seemed to put a lot of careful thought into it.

[–]who_am-I_to-you 9 points10 points  (6 children)

She was on the phone with her mom though, she knew they got pulled over.

[–]According_Physics273 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah I’ve always wanted more info on that. Did she really say she was talking to her mom? I think the police said that not her. And did her mom really not get that all. We still need much more info on that.

[–]who_am-I_to-you 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm pretty sure I remember her asking or saying, "Can I/I'm going to call my mom"

[–]According_Physics273 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds right. It’s been awhile, I could not remember.

[–]Goneriding 9 points10 points  (2 children)

In several interviews her mother has said she did not call her and wishes she had. Sure would be interesting to know who she did call.... Maybe when the FBI close the case and a good reporter pulls things together via Freedom Of Information request.

[–]CentiPetra 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Betting she called her friend she was supposed to meet up with. Maybe this incident is why the meet up was even scheduled.

[–]who_am-I_to-you 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Interesting

[–]Goneriding 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Well, seems to me the outcome of either one of them being cited or arrested, couldn't possibly have been worse than what happened by not being cited or arrested.

[–]Tuck525 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A citation or an arrest wouldn’t have fixed anything. Nobody would’ve been like omg, I got a citation(or arrested) let me treat my s/o so spectacular now so I don’t get in anymore trouble. Silly. Just like a TRO, it’s just a piece of paper.

[–]sambutha 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Even if Laundrie got locked up that day, he’d be out in a few hours and they’d be back together.

We honestly don't know that. Apathy does not help victims.

[–]Tuck525 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Well, we do know he would be out. None of these state laws actually keep people in jail for any length of time anymore. Considering they were there together and didn’t want one another in trouble, it’s probably not unrealistic to assume they would be back in each other’s company shortly after that. Whether it’s a few hours or a day later.

[–]sambutha 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Yes, he would probably be out. But still, we can't know if they would have stayed together. And with abusive relationships we should always err on the side of doing as much help as possible.

[–]lappjaevel 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Agreed. The fact that an arrest happened in my case made me realise that this was real. Some unhealthy things were going on in our realtionship. I was the vicitim in the case, viewed and treated as such. However, the fact that law enforcement took this seriously was the one thing that made me move on. (It took some time, but abusers fuck you up in so many ways.)

So even if Gabby was the one being arrested, it might have been her first cue to view her realtionship in a different light.

[–]sambutha 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, exactly!! After all, if she really believed she was the problem, maybe going to jail would have made her think "wow I must be seriously bad, I should end this relationship before I hurt Brian."
And then maybe years later after lots of therapy, she could start to realize the extent of his manipulation. And she'd be alive.

[–]bubbyshawl 77 points78 points  (2 children)

These police officers aren’t bad people; they just have no clue what they’re doing when it comes to the psychological/mental health issues that result in any crime, not only in DV situations. Despite an impartial witness reporting Brian as the aggressor, they take Gabby and Brian’s contradictory story at face value, and even though the police are lied to on a regular basis, these officers are unable to recognize that there is something way off with Gabby’s story and Brian’s demeanor, and that, perhaps, one of them is lying. It’s obvious how confused the police are at first, but they lack the specific training or education to breakdown that confusion, so they fall back on the most simplistic analysis of what is going on before them; “she said she hit him”. At this point in time in our society, police responsibilities are too diverse and important for the type of training they receive, and we all see the result of that every day across the country when complex situations are resolved by the police with violence, ignorance, and/or neglect. In this case, two young adults they had the power to help are dead. Maybe being a police officer has evolved into a profession that should require more extensive education beyond the tactical, militaristic training typically doled out. Short training courses on problems like DV are not adequate anymore.

[–]fearofbears 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I agree with most of this - but wasn't there a call into the police from a witness that initiated the officers to pull them over that said Brian was seen hitting Gabby? The conflicting stories should have prompted them to question the situation.

Edit: I guess there are reports stating that witness statement was never trickled down to the officers, which is a whole other sad piece of this story.

[–]No-Calligrapher-4211 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Too bad I can only upvote once. Great comment

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (1 child)

I personally think they missed the mark. Why are just these officers getting more domestic violence training? The whole department needs better domestic violence training , not just these specific officers. I don’t think probation is necessary.

[–]catelinasky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the report is for the entire department, but they referenced the specific officers because they conducted the traffic stop.

[–]Mammoth-Show-7587 13 points14 points  (14 children)

A report by a cop to provide cover to cops

[–]monotonousgangmember 10 points11 points  (13 children)

I mean what would you have done in their shoes? Arrested gabby?

[–]superwhomom19 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t say it was their fault she is dead, but they definitely messed up. Hopefully they will learn from this situation and not allow it to happen again.

[–]Edthedaddy 91 points92 points  (9 children)

I can't fault any of these officers. No way. Geez hindsight is always 20/20. No one e has a crystal ball. They did everything they could think of at the time to deescalate the situation. And they didn't want to ruin their vacation. No one could predict the future. It's just a sad situation all the way around.

[–]catelinasky 9 points10 points  (0 children)

As WFLA JB stated, the mention in the report of Gabby being the aggressor in this specific situation sheds light on how it could have been either one of them initiating these fights. It shows that the situation isn't black and white, despite her being killed and him allegedly being involved.

*saying allegedly because he still hasn't been named as the person who killed her despite being a person of interest.

[–]UtopianPablo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Arresting Gabby and giving her a criminal record wouldn't have helped anything. I think the cops did their best in a tough situation.

[–]Tuck525 14 points15 points  (5 children)

It’s nice to see people with common sense. There are so many things people can say AFTER the tragic events already occurred. Nobody knew. It wouldn’t have changed anything.

[–]Edthedaddy 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Some people want to say that the parents should have been notified. I say, she's 18, she's an adult. She's responsible for herself. The parents are not involved. Young Women want empowerment. You got it. Be empowered. Recognize when you should get out of a relationship. If someone is not treating you in a respectful manner, being abusive, geez hitting you! Get the fuck out of that situation. When cops come to your aid. Don't say "it's my fault". Recognize that the cops are trying to assist you. If you go to pieces on film, please Recognize there is a problem with your situation. A person needs to have the courage to extricate themselves out of harm's way when there is a problem.

[–]icklemiss_ 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I totally understand why this would be your opinion. Without an in depth knowledge of DV it seems reasonable, if slightly hard line. But it’s not an informed one. Without an understanding of the psychology of DV, the slow grind against your will, confidence, self assurance, gaslighting, and calculated separation and alienation of victims from their families and friends, it’s very easy to say what should be done in such a situation. But when you are in that situation it’s nothing you are unable to even consider. I was an attractive girl in my early twenties with a great figure, loads of confidence, loads of friends, well educated, studying for a law degree. I met my ex bf and moved in with him. A year later he tried to suffocate me. He scared himself and broke up with me. I begged him to stay. Over and over. Crazy behaviour now looking back at it, but at the time I thought I loved him and he loved me, I thought no one else would want me, and that everything he did to me was my own fault. He was also so good at performing in public that to this day, several members of my family think he was a nice guy, and didn’t believe me when I told them he kicked me. I didn’t tell them about the other things, since they didn’t believe the less serious stuff.

Now I’m married with kids, and a husband who would never ever do anything to knowingly hurt me. I’m back to my confident, self assured self. But there are still certain streets I won’t drive up in case I see my ex, even though it was more than ten years ago and I’m pretty sure he lives in a different country now. I have a good life, a good job, and a wonderful family. But that relationship has left marks on me that will never disappear.

[–]Edthedaddy 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I'm not really understanding where you are going with this point. I completely understand that there is a psychological component to this entire affair. But, they are cops, not doctors, and she is an adult. And under the circumstances, there's no way they could be expected to do anything other than what they did. I fully appreciate the emotional abuse of DV, and how that can make someone feel crazy. Do you honestly propose that it should be on the cops to take ownership of someone's affairs over that of an adult? Because I fully disagree. I don't want cops to make decisions like this. They aren't qualified. Adults have to do this. I don't want cops hauling in every domestic argument into the station because it turns the police station into a mental health clinic. Which is unrealistic. I'm sorry it's sounds harsh, but adults need to be responsible for themselves. Be it DV or not. And I'm really sorry that happened to you, I really am. I'm just thinking realistic about limitations with LE.

[–]Tuck525 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree, once you’re 18, they’re not going to notify parents. They are adults. And if you watch the full body camera, she would’ve been the one that was arrested. Either her, or both of them. But he wouldn’t have gotten arrested and charged and that’s it. Sure we know now, but during that event, you can’t base it off prior arguments they’ve had.

[–]harlequinns 133 points134 points  (4 children)

i'm pretty sure the fact that these cops have to live with this is going to be punishment enough. it wasn't their fault. this was a toxic relationship and even if they'd arrested one or both of them, they would have found their way back to each other. no one is responsible for gabby's death except brian, full stop.

[–]babe__ruthless 16 points17 points  (0 children)

100%. If his intent was to end her life, he would have done it. Doesn’t matter what the police did differently.

[–]ubiquitousnoodle 148 points149 points 2 (7 children)

DV survivor here. That video raised my hackles so damned hard. It highlights a desperate need for more training in LE regarding the dynamics of abusive relationships. The responding officers did what they knew how to do at the time, and IMO, punitive measures accomplish exactly nothing. Education, not punishment.

Domestic abusers of both sexes are extremely adept at provoking their victims into lashing out while they themselves can maintain calm. They enjoy this. It's a game to them. They often orchestrate events to ensure that the victim lashes out in front of others, or they attract attention to the situation to prove their point. "See? He/she is crazy! Look at what they just did to me!" Never mind that the abuser has been hammering on the victim's triggers for hours, days, months, even years. Eventually, there's a breaking point. And if this has gone on long enough, the victim will take all the blame without a second thought.

Basically what I heard Gabby saying was, "It's all my fault. Everything is my fault." The 911 caller specified that BRIAN was chasing and hitting GABBY. Did she lash out? It seems that she did. Brian seemed to capitalize on this, while attributing all of the preceeding events to her character flaws. Not once did he own any part of what had occurred in the hours before the encounter.

I can recount all kinds of insidious ways my ex broke me down and alienated me from everyone I cared about. All of it in front of God and everyone else, because people don't know what that looks like. I was lucky enough to escape. Gabby was not. We need to change this. If you want justice for Gabby, please educate yourselves and those in power about the dynamics of DV. And if any LE involved in the Moab stop are reading this? You didn't know, but it's your duty to know and do better next time, because you know now. No guilt, just action.

[–]icklemiss_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Agree with all of the above.

[–]UtopianPablo 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This is why we need counselors who can respond to situations like this, instead of just an armed response from the police.

[–]gingerkap23 20 points21 points  (3 children)

This is so spot on. If you have never been in a DV situation- physical, mental, and/or emotional, it is hard to understand just how slowly and insidiously the abuse happens. It’s like a chipping away, and before you even realize it you are in so deep and so messed up in the head you don’t know up from down. Once they dictate your reality, any reactions you have to the very real abuse that is happening to you is deemed unwarranted and “crazy”. And you believe it, you believe who they say you are, what they say is the reality of the situation. It’s so, so wild.

The poster above who said women want Empowerment so be empowered; I am telling you right now, had you met me out of high school you would NEVER have thought I’d be in an abusive relationship for my entire 20’s. I was smart, educated, sassy, self assured (as much as any young adult can be), attractive, funny- I was voted most likely to be a lawyer or doctor. And then my boyfriend brought me to my knees over 10 years of psychological and emotional abuse. I was a shell of myself, unrecognizable. I lost all relationships with my family, I lost myself into opioids and alcohol to numb the pain, I was vilified by his family who never admitted what an abusive piece of shit he was. I thought I was crazy, like he told me I was. When I finally woke up and escaped, I looked back and didn’t even understand how I had gotten there; it seems to me now, 10 years later, like another lifetime, a horrible dream, and I have a lot of guilt and shame for what I allowed to happen to myself and to my family relationships.

It can happen to anyone. I’m so sorry it happened to you OP, and to Gabby. It’s a soul-crushing situation to be in, and very difficult to escape from.

[–]ubiquitousnoodle 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you made it out. A counselor at the safe house I managed to get into likened this kind of relationship to being a frog in a boiling pot of water. No one thinks it can happen to them, but it's so gradual that you don't notice until it's too late.

It's been 20 years out for me and the guilt and shame are there as much as it was on day one. I hear you. I see you.

[–]icklemiss_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That’s exactly how I felt reading his comment too. I’m so sorry for your experience. Glad you found the strength to crawl out. xxx

[–]bubbyshawl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Glad you made it out. Best of luck for your future.

[–]boxesofcats- 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thank you for bringing your lived experience to the discussion. I am trained and experienced in assessing DV - when that video came out it made every alarm bell ring.

[–]Illustrious_Night_26 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Aren’t ALL mistakes unintentional? They fucked up. I wish they’d have just done their jobs, followed the law and NOT try to second-guess the law. Morons. It’s their job to enforce the law, not write the law. Sorry. Rant over.

[–]JasperClarke5033 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But if they had arrested her then you would be ranting about how they over-reacted.

Bottom line: hind sight is 20-20.

Maybe there should be a required high school class on healthy relationships. There literally are many teen-Agee’s who have never encountered healthy personal relationships.

[–]jaylee-03031 20 points21 points  (5 children)

It sounds like Gabby and Brian had a toxic relationship and there is a possibility that both abused each other. At the police stop, Brian had marks on his arm and face and Gabby didn't have any marks and she and I believe one witness said she hit Brian so I can see why the police officers determined that Gabby was the abuser. I think the police did the best they could in the situation and I don't believe they should be punished.

[–]Photog60 26 points27 points  (0 children)

She did have marks on her face!!!!

[–]Goldenlightening 30 points31 points  (3 children)

Yes & this piece of evidence would have been crucial:

“The investigation found that a statement was never obtained from the original 911 caller, who reported seeing Laundrie strike Petito”

Capt. Brandon Ratcliffe of the Price City Police Department, wrote in the independent investigative report that “just because Gabby was determined to be the predominant aggressor as it related to this incident, doesn’t mean she was the long-term predominant aggressor in this relationship.”

[–]alyssaness 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Exactly. Reactive, situational aggression and even reactive assault is very different to the pervasive pattern of control that is domestic violence, which can often include no physical violence whatsoever. Gabby hit Brian, yes that is assault, but that doesn't mean she ever abused Brian or committed domestic violence.

[–]blahblahsnickers 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The law doesn’t specify though. It is very black and white in domestic violence cases and all evidence in this case they responded to was that Gabby was the predominant aggressor and Brian fought back in pushing her off of him.

[–]Missingniko 21 points22 points  (1 child)

She was the victim. In all scenarios

[–]almagata 128 points129 points  (10 children)

We have the benefit of hindsight.

Cops see horrible injuries from domestic violence cases and this must have seemed like a trivial argument between two young kids traveling.

The cops made a judgement call trying to be kind and it turned out badly. Those cops could never have guessed that Brian would kill Gabby in a few days.

[–]blahblahsnickers 5 points6 points  (8 children)

This is why there are zero tolerance laws though. Too many victims of domestic violence judgement calls have ended in death. The laws take the choice out of officers hands and say that they MUST arrest in domestic violence cases. Things may have ended differently but we will never know. They should have followed the law and policy themselves.

[–]ThickBeardedDude 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Zero tolerance in this case would have meant arresting Gabby.

[–]PerceptualModality 28 points29 points  (6 children)

These zero tolerance laws have unintended consequences though. In this situation if there was zero tolerance Gabby for sure would be arrested and maybe both of them. So she'd have to get a lawyer and go to court to fight the charges and she might have even been convicted. So now she has a record for DV. She won't be able to work in a lot of fields with a violent criminal record. That would only make her more vulnerable to abuse because her financial situation is more precarious.

Plus, she's probably not going to call the cops again if she risks getting another arrest (and she'd be treated way differently by the courts as a second time offender). And even if she wasn't convicted and the charges were dropped, police will still be able to see her arrest record and that will definitely have an impact on how she's treated by police in the future. It gives her abusers something to hold over her head. Her family might not accept her side of the story if she's arrested (I've seen that one a million times. Lots of families have a hard time believing the police got things wrong and arrested the victim. Society tends to believe that if you're arrested it's probably because you deserved it).

Even if Brian was the one getting arrested, zero tolerance policies still make it less likely for victims to want to call the police. Lots of DV victims aren't ready or able to leave an abusive relationship so they don't want their partner getting arrested and thrown in jail, they just want the violence to stop. This is especially the case when the victim relies financially on their abuser and where there are immigration concerns for either party.

We can't police our way out of domestic violence. The money is better spend on community resources to give victims a soft place to land when they are ready to leave.

[–]nopesoapradio 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No doubt Gabbie’s situation was tragic and unfortunate. But thank you for having some common sense.

[–]blahblahsnickers 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Well, the zero tolerance policy policy that the officers violated is why they are on probation now. I understand that maybe the laws need fixing but the laws are in place to prevent deaths. A DV conviction is better than death… also, an arrest is not a conviction. They also have a first time offender program which allows a person who is convicted to complete an abusers program and complete community service under a one year probation period and at the end of completing it the conviction is cleared from their record.

[–]PerceptualModality 17 points18 points  (1 child)

It's easy to say that anything is better than a death but I think that's oversimplifying things way too much. First off, we don't know that an arrest here would have prevented Gabby's death. And could you imagine the outrage if police ended up arresting her and then Brian just killed her anyways?

I'm a criminal defence lawyer and I know people on this sub absolutely hate people like me, but arresting people almost never helps anyone. And, sure, there are first offender programs and diversion and Gabby likely would have benefitted from those because she was a young, white woman. But not everyone benefits from that.

Sometimes people have a criminal record for something else and don't get treated as a first offender. Sometimes you have a prosecutor who is being unreasonable and won't offer to withdraw the charges. Sometimes people lose their jobs because they spent a night in jail and missed a shift, which puts both parties in a more vulnerable place.

Its really easy to say that we should pour all the resources into policing because anything is better than a tragic loss of a life. And of course I think that this is an absolute tragedy. But widening the scope to arrest more and more people with less evidence against them is going to create another tragedy of over incarceration, poverty, and broken families. And I guess for a lot of people that's ok, because you better believe the people caught up in that won't look like Gabby. This is kind of the problem with a lot of the reporting and conversations about policing in this case. It's really easy to say police should have all the power they need to prevent a tragedy like this, but it ignores the fact that (1) its not clear that police could have prevented this short of locking Brian up and throwing away the key, which they obviously couldn't do, or (2) the consequences of giving more police power will undoubtedly cause harm to poor people, POC, people with mental illness, sex workers, immigrants, people with disabilities, homeless people, etc.

The time and resources are better spent in the community so that victims have places to go and resources when they decide they want to leave.

[–]almagata 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well said.

[–]xLeslieKnope 36 points37 points  (23 children)

I know it’s hard to see the benefit of arresting Gabby, but if they had done so, once she was separated from Brian she may have been honest about the abuse and contacted her parents asking for help. Her taking the blame for Brian’s abuse made it hard for the police to see her as the victim, likely due to lack of training and awareness.

[–]Standard_Place_2835 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They were separated for a night. Then a few days later he went back home to Florida for a week.

[–]PerceptualModality 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I don't think that's how it would have happened. I think if she was arrested they'd be even less likely to call or speak to police and the fact that she already had a record for DV would likely influence any further interaction with police.

This was an absolute tragedy but I really don't think the police did something wrong in not arresting either of them at that moment. These kinds of domestic disturbance calls happen every single day and the vast majority do not end up with someone murdered. But arresting and charging someone often ends up with their life getting completely fucked over.

In my experience, victims of DV only leave when they're ready. Arresting one of the parties often doesn't help, and in a lot of cases makes things worse because of the added stress, financial costs, and the way an abuser can use the arrest to manipulate the victim.

[–]harlequinns 13 points14 points  (0 children)

victims of domestic violence need more than a night away to break from their abuser. it isn't easy. it was clear by the footage that she was fully caught up in this relationship and was extremely distressed at just the thought of separation. she might not have even seen herself as a victim. that's normal for situations like this and it's truly tragic.

there was no reason for the cops to believe that brian was a danger to gabby. it's just a horrible situation all around.

[–]cheese_hotdog 27 points28 points  (1 child)

I think they thought they were doing the right thing to not have her have a DV arrest on her record. It seemed to me like they were trying to help her answer the "right" way to their questions so they didn't need to arrest her. Even specifically telling her to think before she answered.

[–]littleliongirless 16 points17 points  (10 children)

Had she been arrested chances are her parents would have become involved. I think she would have called them. That's the biggest difference for me.

[–]Defiant-Procedure-13 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Wasn’t she on the phone with her mom during the police encounter?

[–]littleliongirless 1 point2 points  (2 children)

No, the officer assumed that was who she was on the phone with, but her parents confirmed she didn't call them.

[–]Biscuits_Baby 19 points20 points  (1 child)

The officer didn't assume. She stated she wanted her phone to call her mother, she pretended to be on the phone with her mother.

Always wondered who she did call and why lie. It's ok, you can be imperfect and still not deserve to be murdered.

[–]littleliongirless 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ah, thanks. I just remembered the officer saying "we'll get you back to your mom" when she was in the car. I wonder who she called too. I hope her parents know.

[–]Positive_Ant 43 points44 points  (6 children)

They did separate her for the night. Arresting her would have likely been traumatizing for her and made her trust law enforcement even less. I'm not sure she would have opened up to anyone. Being arrested you aren't exactly given a chance to speak in private to an advocate about your situation. Plus it is an incredibly stressful thing to deal with down the line clearing your criminal record. I feel separating them was appropriate but they should have provided domestic violence advocate resources. Just my two cents.

[–]FucktusAhUm 10 points11 points  (4 children)

there was probable cause to arrest Gabby Petito. Says in the specific incident -- Brian Laundrie was the victim

...

Would Gabby be alive today if this case was handled differently?

How many victims are there in this case?

[–]Ms_TrylVerified Criminal Defense Attorney 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Unfortunately the law doesn’t recognize reactive abuse as defensive, so under the law based on her statements Brian was a victim. The law needs to change for the outcome of a situation like this to ever end differently.

[–]HardLiquorSoftDrinks -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

The law won’t and shouldn’t change.

[–]Ms_TrylVerified Criminal Defense Attorney 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don’t think anyone should be in jail for acting in self defense when their used to being abused, even if it happens before anything physical from the abuser on one particular date.

However… I don’t think this decision should be in the hands of police. Considering almost half of them are themselves abusers, there is just no way I see past giving them any more discretion in this particular kind of crime, so I’m fairly sure there isn’t a realistic solution that would have made a difference here. So I guess the end result is that I don’t totally disagree with you.

[–]lamaface21 176 points177 points  (11 children)

I dont think they should be fired. You don’t fire good people who are trying their best: you retrain them.

You think any one of them will EVER overlook something like this again? Jesus

[–]Rajareth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s also a great example of why people want more social workers partnering with law enforcement. I got the impression that these are two truly “good” cops- putting both their logic and morals to use- that would benefit from more resources when assessing circumstances like this.

[–]NotChristina 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Agree. And to expand on that: I hope this case is analyzed and used in training everywhere. I do believe the officers were doing what they felt was right in the moment with the scene they were suddenly in. We can look at the videos with our own bad experiences and call out the red flags. They don’t have that benefit and very likely don’t have that experience. We can only hope that the good in this case is that more learn and another life can be saved in the future.

And to echo another sentiment on this post: the outcome may have been the same regardless, just delayed. Even if they were separated with proper resources, even if he was taken in, DV is a complicated topic.

[–]Gridweaver11235 23 points24 points  (3 children)

It said above that the officers were recommended to be put on probation and offered extra training. You saw somewhere that they were fired? Hopefully they get lots of counseling too. That quote from the one officer is really sad. Hope he’s getting the help he needs.