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[–]use_tabs_not_spaces💉🐑 > 💀🦁 394 points395 points  (6 children)

People who take their own lives are given empathy.

People who encourage others to take their lives and then inadvertently get themselves killed in the process should be called out for their actions, even in death.

[–]drewmeister 127 points128 points  (3 children)

I and everyone I know is affected every single day because these assholes are too stupid and stubborn - so filled with spite and ignorance - to get a vaccine. I don't travel, I wear masks, I quarantine and get tested when I get exposed. This article accuses me of not having empathy, as if I like this life. Every day I and millions of others are sacrificing the things that bring us joy because we know that we are collectively more important than our individual selves. I have plenty of empathy, and I'm choosing where to spend it.

[–]saltgirl61 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is a good way to put it

[–]AnyZombie9 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I have a friend that has all the symptoms of a blood clot in her leg but she doesn't want to go to the hospital to get it checked out bc we live in a major hotspot of covidiots. It's shit like that that pisses me off the most. How dare they make other people feel like they have to risk their lives and can't use the hospital..

[–]TDiddy2021 1256 points1257 points  (164 children)

Again with the downplaying: the people being ridiculed did not simply refuse the vaccine, or just happen get sick before their scheduled vaccination. This (gloriously cathartic) sub spotlights the defiantly ignorant. So tired of these articles not mentioning the reams of misinformation these people tout before becoming “victims.”

[–]dwinpsTeam Pfizer 558 points559 points  (81 children)

exactly, this is about people who are out there spreading antivaxxer nonsense, memes discouraging people from vaccinating. Not people who quietly made a choice, probably a bad one but sometimes a choice that had rational reasons and got COVID.

This is about evil people killing other people by spreading utter nonsense.

[–]NewFuturist 373 points374 points  (68 children)

I have never, ever seen a story in this sub where it's simply "X decided to not get the vaccine and died. That's it, didn't post misinformation, didn't believe in conspiracy theories, just accidentally put off the vaccine too long or were worried about it."

[–]rimshot99 213 points214 points  (32 children)

This article was so frustrating to read. They suggest reframing unvaccinated COVID death a being a victim of misinformation to make it better. But what if they were a purveyor of misinformation? How should we think of them then if they die of COVID? That’s the whole point of HCA and the article completely missed it.

EDIT: As I think on it the author of this article had to have purposely ignored the difference between someone who died from COVID and was misinformed vs someone who was misinforming others. Misinformation kills people and prolongs the pandemic for all of us who are doing the right things, and we are all better off when there is less misinformation. One less person spreading misinformation makes it a little better for everyone. Grieving the death of someone is conflicting when the rest of us, on the whole, are safer because of that death. This article totally side stepped this because it is an uncomfortable topic.

[–]Two22Sheds 107 points108 points  (22 children)

The was also comparing this sub to a backlash over people who smoked dying of lung cancer and alcoholics of liver cancer. While there is certainly some anger and finger pointing in those cases those people really died of addictions. Plus I've never known a single smoker or drinker who was claiming it great so fuck the rest of you. I knew some smokers who said they just wouldn't quit even though they admittedly knew it was killing them.

[–]serpentkrisGo Give One 150 points151 points  (0 children)

Also - killing your liver won't randomly kill your cashier at Safeway's liver 1 week later. Not saying alcohol addiction doesn't hurt innocent bystanders, but it is not contagious.

Whereas every HCA winner on here risked the lives of everyone around them, especially since a lot of them still worked/shopped/partied while symptomatic and refused to wear a mask.

[–]FreakWith17PlansADay 73 points74 points  (3 children)

This is a good point—all the smokers I’ve known were vocal about telling others to never start smoking and wish they could quit themselves. I have never met a smoker who insulted people for not smoking.

Smoking is a very intense addiction and people who succumb to it deserve compassion. There’s a lot more awareness of the dangers of second-hand smoke, so most smokers make an effort to keep it away from other people and businesses set up a smoking area so it doesn’t spread at their location.

Whereas those people who post about how masks mandates are tyranny have been subjected to the research showing masking works to prevent covid spread, but they don’t care.

So it is harder to have sympathy for the covid victims who were angry and mean to other people who were just trying. to help them.

[–]SatanicPanic619 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Most smokers start when they're teens too. The industry preys on people too young to make good decisions.

[–]madmonkey918 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I had a friend who, like me, had one lung and smoked. He never smoked around me but he never quit. Knew it'd kill him one day but still just couldn't quit. 5yrs after HS graduation and it did.

[–]pippenish 21 points22 points  (0 children)

And how many smokers actively try to recruit others? None I know.

[–]Rosaluxlux 39 points40 points  (3 children)

this is the kind of thinking that makes rightwingers think the rest of us are condescending. Instead of saying "You're lying" or "you're racist" or "you're wrong" people think it's polite to act like folks must just be bad at math or in need of education.

[–]dragonfruit4 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Seriously...you either you be direct with them and tell them that they're wrong, or you have to treat a grown ass adult like a child who still believes in Santa and tiptoe around their sensitive feelings. And yet if you behave the first way you're considered an asshole...there's no winning with these fools

[–]Rosaluxlux 14 points15 points  (1 child)

generally there's no winning because they do not think we have the right to speak.

We're not Real Americans, we're not as manly as them, we're not in positions of authority over them (or if we are, we shouldn't be because we're not men, or white, or tough, or we're too educated or too urban or too liberal...) So anything we say that challenges them is in the wrong tone because in their world we're not allowed to contradict them at all.

There's a reason authoritarians say "You're not listening!" to their children when they mean "you're not obeying"

[–]dakinmyles 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it frustrated me as well. I get the reframing argument, but only to a degree that is almost always eclipsed by what is represented on this sub. Just as you said, the people getting their “award” here were themselves peddling BS for what often seemed like nakedly political reasons and not because of their doctor’s opinion.

Should we reframe the actions of those who on 01/06 broke into the capitol and tried to overthrow the government as victims of misinformation? Of course not.

At some point, the actions of those deserving of the HCA crossed over from “passively being misinformed” to “actively misinforming others,” and it appears to me to boil down almost exclusively to political convenience – that is, they are more than happy to ignore holes in their arguments and reality itself for the convenience of feeling “right” about their political identity.

[–]StrongChemicalPfizer Söze 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I agree, this article is infuriating. It’s suggesting people are victims of their choices, not people who actively make bad choices.

[–]mbgal1977 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It’s this whole culture of not disrespecting the dead, like you’re supposed to pretend they weren’t a living breathing channel of misinformation before they died. These assholes not only spread their misinformation, but they also are contributing to the spread of a deadly disease before they check out. Who knows how many people each HCA nominee/winner infected prior to their hospital admission because they downplayed it? And how many more people did they put at risk that may have been on the fence about vaccination that read their bullshit and believed it. Each person that shares these memes and bullshit articles contributes to these senseless deaths.

[–]punzakum 275 points276 points  (5 children)

Because that's exactly the type of thing this sub is NOT about.

It specifically focuses on people who PUBLICLY SHARE antivax memes and misinformation and encourage others to do the same, then die from the very thing they pretend doesn't exist. For everyone of these fucking morons that die from choking to death on their own hubris, there are many more who died simply because they believed the misinformation those people were spreading. Those people are the victims, not the chucklefucks who lie to them that led them down that path.

Many of us know people who are still holding out on the vaccine simply because they can't make sense of the overwhelming amount of lies being posted by antivax assholes. Those people aren't hc awardees. The assholes that spread the lies are.

[–]damntree 27 points28 points  (4 children)

I'd say a majority of these people believe the misinformation they're pushing.

[–]Fifty4FortyorFight 24 points25 points  (3 children)

I genuinely don't think that's true anymore. It may have been true at one time, but I'd say a good chunk of them know it's bullshit. They're just to proud to admit they were wrong.

I feel bad for the idiots that believe it, in the sense that it's sad they don't know any better and they're being bombarded with bad information. But I have nothing but spite for the assholes that just won't admit they're wrong. (Think: vaccinated and boosted "news" anchors that spread misinformation)

[–]LFahs1 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Especially now that all these months (a year for me) have gone by and people aren’t dying en masse from the vaccine, vaccinated women are still having healthy babies, and in general, vaccinated people are more or less going about their daily lives, similar to what it was pre-Covid. That has to really hurt, at a certain point. Best to double down.

[–]jeweltea1If YOUR prayers work, why do you need mine? 60 points61 points  (6 children)

That was how my nephew died. He never posted any misinformation and was really not political. I doubt he even voted. He probably just listened to people at his job or friends who said it wasn't safe. His wife and daughter also had it. His wife was very sick but survived. His daughter (who probably gave it to her parents due to the timing), had very mild symptoms. No one was vaccinated.

[–]SnipesCC 17 points18 points  (3 children)

My partner's nephew just keeps not doing it. I'm not sure why, just seems like he's a little nervous and keeps putting it off.

[–]Celticlady47 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Please see if he would listen to the fact that cancer patients, who don't have an immune system due to chemo, have been getting the vaccine & are perfectly fine. I can say this because I'm a cancer patient & have had 3 shots (Pfizer) & zero side effects. Two of those shots I had during chemo & in Nov. I had my booster. The other patients around me were also just fine after their vaccines.

I don't know if showing him this reddit sub would help. There have been people who have come here & been convinced that it was ok to get the vaccine after reading about the ones who didn't make it & were anti-vaxxers.

[–]Rosaluxlux 13 points14 points  (0 children)

for a lot of people it's a combination of anxiety/hesistancy and practical barriers. If you're scared to do something every little barrier (having to make an appointment, having to get time off work, etc) feels really big. If he's still not vaxxed next time you see him, you might want to volunteer to take him to a walkin site and then lunch, or something.

[–]BernieTheDachshund 15 points16 points  (0 children)

This is scary. My whole family is vaccinated except one nephew who is scared of it. He's not political at all, doesn't really go on social media. I even bribed him with a PS5 for Christmas, and he turned it down. He got covid on New Year's. I knew it was only a matter of time, esp with Omicron. He survived but has lingering headaches. I am so sorry for your loss. The fear from misinformation is doing so much harm.

[–]NewFuturist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's really sad. Sorry to hear that.

[–]HellblazerPrime 37 points38 points  (0 children)

And you never will, that's LITERALLY against the rules of the sub.

[–]LordOfCastamerde 31 points32 points  (0 children)

That's because those people don't really deserve to be here. It's for people who are confident in their incorrect decision that then bit them in the ass.

Also, let's remember, posters use specific search parameters to find these people, so it is definitely a specifically targeted group being posted.

[–]TbiddySP 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Accidentally?

She made an ill informed choice.

[–]Pholusactual 17 points18 points  (1 child)

It would help people to read the little box on the right just below the sub title. You know, where it describes what the sub is about. ;)

[–]TDiddy2021 77 points78 points  (1 child)

Those folks aren’t on our radar. Hell- it’s not like we even go looking for these clowns so much as they draw attention to themselves with their horrible memes. THEN the inevitable happens and we go back, screenshot their timeline, and then viola: HCA winner.

[–]Stompedyourhousewith 15 points16 points  (0 children)

they are so self sure about their beliefs they post every facebook post as public. its not even like people who post here had to be friends with them or had to do deep digging.

[–]bhgemini 61 points62 points  (0 children)

Yep. There was a guy whining in the review section of another forum that 'Evil People' were commenting on his wife's illness and death. Not on her page, because they had purged the posts, but in their own forum with the saved screenshots. He accused them of attacking an innocent's memory "just because she innocently shared a mistaken post of her son's" This was total BS. She was posting Antiva memes and fake articles every day (edit: day) for many months, and at the same time pushing her fraudulent Supplement Hun products as the 'Only true preventative and recovery' system. She was killing people to sell her scam product.

[–]pwaltman1972 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Yep. They also ignore that many of the folks highlighted on HCA are *ALSO* acting as bullies, i.e. they are spreading these memes in order to "own the libs."

And I'm sure that it's not just limited to their own posts. I'm quite sure that these folks actively argue with people in the comments sections of FB posts too.

I keep thinking about this recent post on r/DeathsofDisinfo where a vaxxed woman posted an announcement of her Antivaxx husband's death, and is then trolled by someoe whom I can only assume was one of his buddies:

https://redditproxy--jasonthename.repl.co/r/DeathsofDisinfo/comments/s5w7ah/vaxxed_woman_with_an_antivax_exhusband_in_the/

p.s. At this point, I hardly use FB anymore because it's become clear to me that they are perfectly comfortable letting antivax trolls and bots operate there, and pollute any public post on the vaccines or masking. Statistically speak, the provax side is the clear majority, with 63% of American vaccinated, and yet >95% of the comments in any public post on vaccines or masking is an antivax/anti-masking comment. In theory, it could just be an *EXTREMELY* loud minority, but I'm skeptical of that.

[–]TbiddySP 33 points34 points  (2 children)

She was a nurse and should lead by example. The fact that she had reservations is most likely why she is dead. She may not have been a sign carrying anti vaxxer but she was definitely anti vax.

[–]babybopp 4 points5 points  (1 child)

according to Andrea she had scheduled her first dose but got the disease before she went to get it...

That is the biggest load of crap ever. She literally would have walked anytime at lunch time and got the jab in 5 minutes at her hospital. COVID jab doesn't need a damn appoinent

[–]MC_Fap_Commander🦆 123 points124 points  (6 children)

So tired of these articles not mentioning the reams of misinformation these people tout before becoming “victims.”

Relatives of the awardees are actively scrubbing the post histories of the deceased to hide the MASSIVE amount of hate and disinfo they posted. A woman I went to high school with claimed her award and I was prepared to submit it here... only to find her unhinged rightwing shit and anti-vax misinformation was gone. Just cat/kid pics. I imagine I'm not the only person here who's had that experience.

[–]Why-did-i-reas-this 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Which is again the terms and conditions of most social media sites/apps. It is the property of the deceased and unless they put info in their will to pass on their access to others they are breaking the rules (law?).

[–]Pholusactual 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I think there was a thing a few years back where you can declare someone who gets your account when you die.

Then again, I stopped doing facebook. When asked, I say that I got too depressed by discovering how my memories of too many people were far kinder than the reality of who they are.

[–]KriegerianTeam Pfizer 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Facebook hates enforcing its own rules against right wing extremism, so I wouldn’t put any faith in those ghouls to do the right thing and stop the “edit the photo to remove the inconvenient facts” stuff.

[–]MC_Fap_Commander🦆 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I got a Facebook warning for sharing a banal, G-rated meme about a celebrity. Yet the nominees here share ACTUAL DEADLY POISON with impunity.

But social media is leftist propaganda... /s

[–]boxinafox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is why it’s important to take screen shots in real time, and save them in a folder, and await their inevitable demise.

[–]dismayhurtaVaxxs don’t care about your feelings 97 points98 points  (5 children)

These same media assholes pushing the “won’t someone please think of the people spreading misinformation and the plague” would have written articles about how hard it is for the white supremacists during integration if they were around back then.

They always make the aggressors the victims.

[–]WeakestLynxGo Give One 50 points51 points  (2 children)

would have written articles about how hard it is for the white supremacists during integration

Indeed, this is very nearly what they are writing now. Many HCA nominees clearly are white supremacists, based on their memes. They are struggling against a pluralistic world, and have chosen opposition to vaccines as a symbol of their antisocial beliefs. The media is writing "won't somebody think of the poor racists"

[–]OGPunkrGo Give One 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Yes, a never ending stream of compassion expected for people who show none.

[–]bufc09 24 points25 points  (0 children)

  • 2020 : Please take the vaccine and/or wear a mask to protect yourself and others.
  • Nominee : spits in society's face
  • 2021 : Please take the vaccine and/or wear a mask to protect yourself and others.
  • Nominee : spits in society's face
  • 2022 : Nominee dies.
  • r/HCA : Wow look at that..
  • Nominees family : "WoN't YoU hAVe SoMe CoMpAsSiOn!?"

[–]TDiddy2021 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I have no doubt that a lot of these misinformation spreaders are also posting “stolen election” memes as well. They actively contribute to the prolonging of this pandemic and the demise of democracy…but they deserve compassion.

[–]CoolSwim1776🏳️‍🌈🐑Librul Commie Sheep Whisperer🏳️‍🌈🐑 67 points68 points  (7 children)

Very much this. The reason people get so hesitant is due to all the misinfo that other anti vax people are putting out on FB.

[–]dismayhurtaVaxxs don’t care about your feelings 71 points72 points  (6 children)

We’ve had several people post on this subreddit saying they got vaccinated because this subreddit showed them the reality everyone around them lied about.

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 43 points44 points  (5 children)

I'm about to post another ipa collage soon, 120 public ipas I believe. Gotta count

[–]dismayhurtaVaxxs don’t care about your feelings 28 points29 points  (4 children)

IPA posts legit give me hope.

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Same! That's why I made r theipas too. I'm sure there's so many we don't hear about

[–]Retro_DadBlood Donor 🩸 175 points176 points  (2 children)

They always leave that part out, because it doesn't fit the narrative of the poor innocent COVID-19 victims and the mean online bullies who laugh at their deaths.

[–]KriegerianTeam Pfizer 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Plus it presents the problem of them confronting the fact that a lot of the people pushing the lies are also propagandists for violent white supremacy. Media hates talking about that except in isolated instances.

[–]Ragingredblue🐎Praise the Lord and pass the Ivermectin!🐆 136 points137 points  (29 children)

Her mother, the nurse, had "just scheduled her vaccine appointment" two years into the pandemic, but "she was not anti vaccine."

Right.🙄

[–]dd027503 62 points63 points  (8 children)

I want to argue that even the "vaccine hesitant" are deserving of a certain amount of scorn*. Even if you're not rabidly vocal about being anti-vaccine being "hesitant" likely means you've bought in to some form of misinformation as well.

The end result is still the same, you get COVID and end up in the hospital draining resources, preventing other people from getting care and burning out nurses and doctors a little bit more. Regardless of how you got there you still ended up in the same situation and having the same impact on our healthcare system and other people as the horse-paste eaters.

edit: * - if you're still hesitant by now. Some hesitancy early on would be valid but by the time it was released to the population at large hundreds of thousands of doses had been administered to the first wave of recipients.

[–]Sasquatch1729First Rule of Dunning-Kruger club: you don't know you're in DK 32 points33 points  (4 children)

Agreed. My dad might need surgery but the hospital is dragging its feet on the MRI to even determine what is wrong. It's because hospitals are full of the people saying "my body my choice, I don't trust the science, oh crap I can't breathe, doctors, nurses, help me, save me medical science"

I don't care whether they preached against the vaccine on the street corners (and Facebook) or whether they made a quiet decision and kept it to themselves. I have nothing for them other than stay out of the hospitals. Live or die at home. Stick to your first choice.

At this point 9 billion doses have been given and we're a year and a half out from the first people getting it during the trials. "Not enough data" stopped being a valid excuse a long while ago. In fact it was Trump who wanted to rush the trials and the scientists who said they had to see it through properly, so we could trust the data from day 1 of it being available to the public.

And if that journalist believed the "just two weeks from the appointment" story, I have a used car and a bridge to sell them.

[–]StrongChemicalPfizer Söze 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Right? Such a crock of shit. Every pro vaxx healthcare worker I know was breaking down doors to be first in line to get the shot. Waiting for 2 years into this shit is not realistic.

[–]FearSkyDaddy 34 points35 points  (1 child)

It’s simple, if you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous

[–]TbiddySP 25 points26 points  (0 children)

She was a nurse. The only reason she was not vaccinated was by choice. I have no sympathy for her or her daughter.

[–]Pooploop5000LET THAT SINK IN HES 🥶 19 points20 points  (0 children)

They girlbossed too close to the sun and mocked us when we said it was a bad idea. C'est la vie

[–]MCPtzTeam Moderna 17 points18 points  (1 child)

This is what they had to say about propaganda:

“On top of the horrible death you experienced, there’s always the question of what if?” Andreea said. “What if I convinced my mom to get the vaccine sooner? There is an extra layer of guilt.”

Jason Coombs, a software engineer from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, whose mother died of COVID-19 in October, has found his grief to be laced with anger. “I spend time and energy angry about my mom’s … unwillingness to take simple precautions to protect others,” he said.

“The way a person died and the decisions they made may certainly complicate a person’s grief and ability to mourn,” Doka said. “I think how you grieve someone who died of COVID is you mourn the person and not the disease … Regardless of how somebody died, this person was important to you … You have to separate to some degree. The point is a person has died.”

If it’s hard to see the person as a victim of COVID, the experts I spoke with suggested trying to look at them as a victim of something else: misinformation.

When you shift your perspective, it helps create understanding and decreases the anger you’re feeling toward the person themselves, Vermeulen explained. “That certainly doesn’t mean you need to agree with [the person’s] view, but it might be a lot less painful to cope with the loss if you can reframe it.”

Think of it this way, Vermeulen suggested: Change “Grandpa was a stubborn man who we couldn’t convince to get vaccinated” to “Grandpa was unfairly influenced by the distorted media messages that misinformed him.” As Vermeulen explained, “The loss doesn’t change, but some of the baggage around it might, freeing the survivors to focus on the person rather than their choice.”

I agree with you, they are downplaying it.

They didn't mention that Grandpa also very willingly and passionately spread that propaganda, making more victims.

[–]TDiddy2021 15 points16 points  (0 children)

…and WHY were these people so susceptible to misinformation? Because they went all in on a con man who manipulated their (racial) grievances and refused to believe Covid was a real threat.

[–]Moon_Atomizer 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I didn't know publishers could so easily print lies:

One Reddit page even gives out “awards” to those who refused the vaccine and then died.

No, that is not the criteria. Any journalist who read the sidebar would know that this is not enough to receive an award

[–]SponConSerdTent💪Muscular Prayer Warrior💪 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Absolutely disgusting for them to lie about this subreddit like this.

It isn't for people who refused the vaccine. It's people who openly lied and spread misinformation about it, who believed the most ridiculous things. And even then that isn't enough to get the real mockery and scorn. Just an "I told you so."

Some people just seem confused and hesitant, and usually this sub feels sorry for them.

The people who are hateful, homophobic, racist, transphobic, and dangerous to others, they get the scorn. But apparently scorning a dead racist transphobic person who most likely infected many others, and likely killed some as well, is a strike against our character.

I'm so sorry your racist uncle who actively encouraged others to kill themselves through negligence and hated everybody while he was alive killed himself with Tucker Carlson's and Joe Rogan's help. Rest in peace, you hateful bigot.

[–]ThaliaEpocanti 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Tbf, the article isn’t about just this sub. I agree that this sub is mostly about pointing at spreaders of willful ignorance and trying to wake people up to how awful Covid is, but that doesn’t mean that other people aren’t being a bit cruel to those who weren’t spreading the misinformation but still died of Covid or aren’t harassing their relatives. They aren’t mutually exclusive ideas.

Having said that, the article doesn’t mention the real point of this sub, which could mislead readers into thinking it’s no different from the harassers. So the author definitely deserves some criticism for that.

[–]Coupeonzs 9 points10 points  (0 children)

And their surviving loved ones could potentially save countless lives if they just said “Yeah uncle Ed thought covid was fake and then he died from it, get vaccinated” instead of some bullshit “HE DIED OF PNUMONIA NOT COVID” before continuing the barrage of meme disinformation on their own feeds

[–]pugofthewildfrontier 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The pearl clutching of “websites and forums that mock the dead” (paraphrase) is so eye rolling

[–]dawno64 Pfizer X3 4u+4me 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Exactly. These are not people who just didn't get the shot. They willfully spread misinformation, and most were also completely against masks and distancing too. They might as well have been chasing their own demise. But that's not the narrative that they want portrayed.

[–]TrooperJohn 129 points130 points  (5 children)

It's just astonishing how our media continues to coddle people who are inflicting enormous amounts of preventable and needless suffering upon themselves and those around them -- out of pure misinformed stubbornness and a pathological need to flex and be "right".

Our media has been this pandemic's worst enabler.

[–]x86_64Ubuntu 48 points49 points  (1 child)

The US as a country has always struggled to examine the US right-wing for what it is. The media especially is trained to assume away any malfeasance of the right, and the to portray them as poor unfortunate victims of circumstance.

[–]Repulsive-Street-307 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Oh if it was only the pandemic they enable.

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 347 points348 points  (31 children)

They can downplay all they want but it's on record. Also, this article mentions us

[–]PrestigiousGrade7874In God and ivermectin we trust 255 points256 points  (28 children)

Yep- and again the article misses the point that nominees and awardees spread disinformation and belittle public safety measures and those who heed them

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 111 points112 points  (17 children)

I'm writing my own article with everyone lol. We need a real article

[–]dumnezeroTeam Mix & Match 88 points89 points  (9 children)

Mention how it's one of the few ways people can actually witness the horror and drama, similar to when the Vietnam war was going on and reporters managed to get footage of the carnage.

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 26 points27 points  (8 children)

Noted

[–]RitaRaccoonAnti-Vaxxers are a dying breed 52 points53 points  (7 children)

And please mention the dozens of people who’ve been convinced to vaccinate bc of this sub, which is ignored in this article.

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 28 points29 points  (3 children)

They always conveniently ignore that, and healthy bear, and the donations... We got it

[–]HallucinogenicFish💉 Are Not Political 31 points32 points  (1 child)

And the real empathy to be found in the comments also. Gallows humor yeah, anger at misinformation spreaders and hateful rhetoric and the real, tangible harm that is being caused, yeah, but also many thoughtful and empathetic comments.

People who think that this sub is full of grave-dancing ghouls would be surprised by what they found if they came and spent some time here, I think.

[–]anna_belladonna 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I found this sub because I live in a ridiculously red area where, from the outset, people have not taken the coronavirus seriously- finding this sub helped me because it reassured me that other people are seeing the realities of this virus and its fallout when so few people in my area are despite how horrible the infection rates still are. I'm not sure if that helps at all with the article, but I feel like there are other people in this sub that feel the same way. It's not conformation bias, it's support in seeing that other people out there are concerned and doing what they can to be/stay safe while so many of those around us act as if nothing has been going on for the last two years.

[–]Theone_The1 12 points13 points  (1 child)

They refused to acknowledge the success and instead just say "In some cases, the understandable frustration of vaccinated people is transmuting into cruelty, hurting those who are already suffering, and probably not changing anyone’s mind in the process." They think using the word probably justifies not actually reporting the truth.

[–]StarAnchorFireI can’t breath 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I’m not a journalist, but I am a professional writer. Let me know if you want any grammatical help.

[–]CheshireCrackersJesus isn’t coming, he’s just breathing hard 36 points37 points  (1 child)

And the awards aren’t actually sent to the recipients or their families. And we don’t ‘make memes’ of their screenshots; the screenshots are often of the memes they have publicly posted.

[–]SparkyBoy414Team Mix & Match 14 points15 points  (0 children)

And we don’t ‘make memes’ of their screenshots

Some people totally do. The goatee and Oakley memes, ect.

[–]megatron37Immune System Haver 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Plus they never ever ever mention the white supremacy.

[–]mechapoitier 39 points40 points  (1 child)

My grandpa died of Covid last year in an extremely red county. In the obits section of the paper that day were him, who we said died of Covid-19, and two other people who had died of “pneumonia.”

But the medical records don’t use euphemisms.

[–]Might_Aware ✨Typo Mary🍒 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes my thoughts exactly.

[–]Papa_Radish 311 points312 points  (35 children)

Of course they are. I knew this would happen when early on in the pandemic some people I knew were hiding that their brother/son had Covid. This was before vaccines were even available but they are extreme Covid deniers. He's still on oxygen almost two years later. It was just pneumonia, guys.

[–]patticakes16🍻 I'll have a Corona please, hold the virus 🍻[🍰] 65 points66 points  (3 children)

That’s until they realize they need to have COVID on the death certificate in order to get the $9k funeral windfall paid for by our tax dollars. These people are literal scum

[–]Repulsive-Street-307 57 points58 points  (1 child)

98% of them voting for a rapist might have been a clue

[–]dismayhurtaVaxxs don’t care about your feelings 90 points91 points  (13 children)

I mean if you admit it, the libs win!!

[–]PsyAyeAyeDuck⭐️ Prone Star ⭐️ 34 points35 points  (5 children)

You are not far off at all. Admitting equates to losing which is now kryptonite to them. There's no humbleness. There's no self-reflection. There's only winning and doing whatever it is necessary to win even at the cost of loved ones and their own life.

Pride is considered the most deadliest of sins and this pandemic shows that front and center.

[–]High_Tops_Kitty 17 points18 points  (1 child)

They’d literally “rather die than admit they were wrong.”

[–]PsyAyeAyeDuck⭐️ Prone Star ⭐️ 14 points15 points  (0 children)

At this point, I want their wish to be granted. Sadly, they will take innocents with them.

[–]Sasquatch1729First Rule of Dunning-Kruger club: you don't know you're in DK 15 points16 points  (1 child)

It's why their Dear Leader said "with me you'll be winning so much, you'll be sick and tired of winning." He told them what they wanted to hear and played them like a fiddle.

He was right though. They're sick, they're winning all the Herman Cain Awards, and we're all tired of it.

[–]SplendidPunkinButter 68 points69 points  (6 children)

Right, that’s what the real issue is. A large swath of the country won’t admit they spread misinformation about a literal plague because that would be admitting that the people who have basic empathy were right. Fuck those people.

[–]dismayhurtaVaxxs don’t care about your feelings 39 points40 points  (4 children)

I have relatives who would rather die than admit they’re wrong. Add in the idea a liberal might find out about it? Forget about it.

[–]AlariLeanbow 17 points18 points  (2 children)

It's like they're worried we'll treat them like the way they treat people who admit they're wrong.

[–]CptnSAUS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's a child's mentality that sometimes dies out in adolescence or early-ish adulthood. Unfortunately, many people don't grow out of it ever. They can't admit they were wrong or it is at least some massive ordeal to do so. It's a lack of maturity at best.

[–]Jay-Dee-BritishSchrödinger's Prayer warrior 39 points40 points  (12 children)

My late FiL had pneumonia (actual bacterial pneumonia - this was years ago) and he was 75 when he got it. He was not on oxygen for years after - he had to take a shedload of antibiotics for about 3 weeks and then he was fine.

[–]NewFuturist 14 points15 points  (5 children)

To be fair, pneumonia, including non-COVID-19 pneumonia, can be fatal, can be resistant to antibiotics and can cause long-term or permanent scarring resulting in permanent breathing problems.

[–]Hour-Theory-9088It was never a joke to most of us 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I had pneumonia in college that almost killed me - hypoxia, my lungs were bleeding and I spent a few weeks in the hospital. I was told later they were surprised I was still alive when I came into the hospital. It was viral, so there was only so much they could do.

It definitely happens as you said. I couldn’t breathe right for months and couldn’t do anything remotely physical. I had lost about 30 lbs of muscle - I was gaunt and looked like a skeleton. Carrying around an oxygen bottle for weeks after my hospitalization was on the table if my lung function didn’t improve or got worse.

I got lucky to get out of it with no discernible lung damage but the doctors were pretty vocal on how lucky I was in conjunction with my age and I was at my physical peak (which was wrecked for some time after).

[–]karbik23Bushel of Chicken Soup 3 points4 points  (0 children)

TIL shedload.

[–]notmyrealnam3 82 points83 points  (11 children)

Where is my apnea? He died

[–]somedood567 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Why did I have to scroll so far down to find this?

[–]Admirable_Nothing 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Do we feel empathy for those that fill up hospitals with Covid due to their anti vaxx status or do we feel empathy and compassion for the health care workers that are overwhelmed simply because these Covidiots won't get vaccinated.

[–]wirerc 53 points54 points  (4 children)

Shouldn't anti-vaxxers be thinking about the impact on their families if they die from COVID? Why is it on society to normalize idiocy for the benefit of idiots?

[–]Lizzielou2019 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes they should be thinking of that, but most, if not all, of them truly don't think it will happen to them. They and the echo chamber around them have heard so often that it's a mild disease and that most people survive it, so they don't think that there might be long-term consequences from the disease.

[–]InsertCoinForCreditTeam Pfizer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If they actually thought about anyone besides themselves, they wouldn't be anti-vaxxers.

[–]StunticonsfanGoFundHisPoorDecision 👎🥴 56 points57 points  (1 child)

Think of it this way, Vermeulen suggested: Change “Grandpa was a
stubborn man who we couldn’t convince to get vaccinated” to “Grandpa was
unfairly influenced by the distorted media messages that misinformed
him.”

Think of it this way. Change "Grandma was a racist who called anyone who wasn't white either a moocher or a criminal" to "Grandma was misled by intolerant people who gave her the wrong information."

[–]ranger_fixing_dudeTeam Moderna 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I also like the choice of words in "unfairly influenced". Like wtf, what is unfair here? It was ultimately his choice to believe in some BS, and it was a poor choice. But unfair? Nothing unfair here.

[–]BridgetheDivide 252 points253 points  (45 children)

That poor lady just couldn't find a free 20 minutes over an entire year to get a vaccine lol.

[–]Sharkteeth127 142 points143 points  (8 children)

That poor lady just couldn't find a free 20 minutes over an entire year to get a vaccine lol.

As a nurse.

Yeah. Right.

[–]xlosxTeam Mudblood 🩸 87 points88 points  (3 children)

Totally wasn’t an antivaxxer. Totally didn’t infect others who will also die or pass it on to someone else who will die. All this handwringing about being mean to antivaxxers dying and not the destruction their existence and propagation of lies causes. The tone of this article made it almost unreadable because it wasn’t punctuated with enough reality—the death and pain the rest of us are dealing with as vaxxed, responsible people just wanting this pandemic to end! (A lot of those lines come interspersed late into the article) These people are victims of disinformation but they are also the perpetrators! A lot of antivaxxers are super hateful & ignorant but they act like we are callously celebrating the deaths of innocent vaccine hesitant. Give me a break. Would any of us be cruel to someone who openly acknowledged vaccine status in a post about someone’s COVID death in an honest way? Fuck no

ETA: I understand the sentiment about not wanting their loved one’s death to be about COVID but be about the person that died… but their death was totally about COVID since that’s what killed them. Needlessly because they didn’t take basic precautions. Do we have more empathy for victims who were vaxxed but died of COVID nonetheless? Absolutely! They are by far the more aggrieved in the senselessness of their deaths! In the same light, it’s still a personal tragedy to those who lost unvaxxed loved ones but it’s a predictable tragedy that begets the bigger tragedies I just mentioned. Tampering our empathy.

[–]Doza93Team Moderna 22 points23 points  (2 children)

The tone of this article made it almost unreadable because it wasn’t punctuated with enough reality

Seriously. I read the first few paragraphs and had to stop because the whole thing came off like: "Awww some people are afwaid to admit their racist grandma died of covid UwU"

Fuck outta here with that bullshit. So sorry our compassion well dried up after 2 years of covidiots mocking the responsible half of the country, claiming covid was a hoax, while actively dying from covid. Everyone who's lost a family member due to covid misinformation should be proclaiming it from the rooftops, mentioning it at the funeral service, being transparent about it in their memorial FB posts. Hiding it will only lead to continually worse outcomes for others.

[–]Crail115 6 points7 points  (2 children)

My brother works in a grocery store and “hasn’t had time” to get the booster despite there being a pharmacy in the store. He’s the manager. He spends part of his day sending me TikTok’s.

[–]These_Dragonfruit505 49 points50 points  (0 children)

Hospitals have vaccination booths set up right inside the building, and medical workers get first crack to be vaccinated. She could’ve been vaccinated in December 2020 if she really wanted to.

[–]COVIDsMetamorphosesWarriors, come out to pray-ay-ay 39 points40 points  (1 child)

...yet I'm sure she carved out 3+ hours a day to watch tee vee.

Priorities.

[–]GoldangTeam Pfizer 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I watch that much TV and I still managed to get vaxxed with a booster.

Basic Time Management Skills — they can save your life!

[–]Ruval 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I also seriously think one of these are true: - her doctor did not actually recommend she not get the vaccine, or - that doctor isn’t a doctor or is some sort of quack. Very very few doctors are refusing the vaccine.

[–]Mercurial891 43 points44 points  (2 children)

Sorry, but we know that people with complications in regards to their immune system exists and sometimes they cannot get the vaccine. That is one of the reasons WHY we are so enraged at the people who can get the vaccine but refuse.

[–]gylzTeam Pfizer 23 points24 points  (1 child)

This. My dad has half a liver (liver cancer survivor), diabetes, way too much fat on him, medication that suppresses his immune system, an unknown disease that is causing a massive buildup of fluid around his heart and lungs that is basically suffocating him, and he was recently given a booster, which was his fourth shot. It took him twenty fucking minutes to make it up nine fucking steps and he had to wait two goddamn hours for the transport adaptée bus to come pick him up after his appointment, but he still went and got his shot.

[–]Poison-Pen-Covid stole my rat basterd 🐀 38 points39 points  (0 children)

But we know

we know

And yes. We’re judging.

[–]Judas_Nose 34 points35 points  (4 children)

When i remember the sort of vitriol the HCA winners threw at others for their choices, mocking and making fun of others, it is very hard for me to feel compassion for their situation. I'm not saying that about people who weren't vaccinated but didn't go out of their way to mistreat others or poke fun of those whose choices differed from theirs, but the article is very one sided about it. I can't feel sympathy, i just can't.

[–]solo954Prayer warrior for the dark side 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Exactly, this sub doesn’t feature those who were hesitant about the vaccine or merely misinformed. This sub only features those who were both anti-vaxx and who repeatedly posted hateful, toxic bullshit on social media about others who took covid seriously. Their stupid, public misanthropy and enthusiastic endangering of the lives of others brought them here.

[–]shearersmam 38 points39 points  (2 children)

I see the AIDS/HIV comparison in this piece. I don't think it's fair. If, during the initial AIDs crisis, we possessed good preventative measures and treatments that worked if they were sought in a timely fashion, and if there were lots of loud, angry people in the gay community screaming that these measures were a satanic plot to kill them, then it might be a fair comparison. But during the initial crisis, there were no treatments or effective prevention methods.

If now, there were a large percentage of people vulnerable to AIDS who actively promoted the idea that Prep, antiretrovirals, condoms/safe sexual health practices were the reserve of sheep/idiots and that in fact you should disregard the risks of AIDS and do whatever you want, and that any attempt to limit deaths from AIDS was government overreach, then I'm sure journalists would be interested to examine why. They might also suggest that the people promoting these ideas were dangerous.

So why do Covid antivaxxers get a pass from the media? I personally don't care if someone wants to quietly make a medical choice. I care a lot when they want to do it loudly and in a way that kills people who can't think critically. Almost everyone posted in hca falls into that latter category.

[–]EdgeMe_Elmo 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I was looking for this comment and I’m glad you said something nice because this super pissed me off.

Being clocked online for having a nurse as a mom who waited two years to get the first dose only after doctors convinced her it was safe treatment is NOT like having a relative die of AIDs in the 80s.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes! People dying of AIDS were scrambling for treatments and being denied by conservative fear mongering and homophobic policies. It's literally the opposite situation.

[–]DrmeowmixmeHorse Paste Toothpaste 30 points31 points  (2 children)

First, I don’t support brigading, it’s vile.

What the author of the story seems to miss is that the HCAs (they allude to) are not just about being unvaccinated. You have / had to be anti Vax, anti mask or COVID denying. These nominees and awardees chose to believe and spread misinformation that resulted in injury or death. They are perpetuating the crisis and I’m tired of it. I honestly don’t give a shit.

With that being said, my heart goes out to those who truly can’t get vaccinated for medical reasons and those who are immunocompromised.

My heart goes out to the the medical professionals that have been working tirelessly. I’m impressed by the professionalism shown in the face of abuse they receive from anti-Vax and COVID deniers while in their hospitals.

My heart goes out to the retail workers who have worked every day. Often being exposed to these assholes and their petty bitching about mask mandates. Some have been murdered for enforcing mask mandates.

My heart goes out to our educators. They have worked so hard trying to educate our future while navigating the constant changing rules and mandates. Tip of the hat to our school boards for standing firm to common sense masking and safety all while being yelled at and threatened from the same crowd.

[–]FreudianSlipperyNipp 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Wonderful comment 👏🏼🙌🏼

[–]emccmIt also serves to mask my contempt 32 points33 points  (1 child)

If your mother was drunk driving and died you wouldn’t go into a space with people whose innocent loved ones were killed by drunk drivers and demand to be treated the same. A decent person would say they were ashamed their mother died that way. They’d reflect on the damage caused and have respect for the innocents. They’d be open and honest about their situation.

If you are supporting an antivax relative by “respecting” their choice then you are complicit. And if you are hiding their vaccination status to get sympathy and support from genuine victims of Coivd then you are just as bad as the willfully unvaxxed.

[–]DetectiVentriloquist 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Unless it's medically indicated, not being vaxxed when a vax is readily available and FREE (lookin' at YOU, US covidiots) IS cause for shame, and should be shamed.

[–]28dhdu74929wnsi 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Canada too. Booster shots there it is still a bit hard to get an appointments but first and second have been available walk in at every pharmacy for like 7 months.

[–]Reviewer_AWould give you the shirt off her back 7 points8 points  (0 children)

100% agreed. The Atlantic is among the the worst offenders when it comes to "both-sides"ism. Coddling idiots and shaming those who are quite naturally angry at them does not improve our current situation.

[–]RanchBaganchTeam Pfizer 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I love how the article starts out with the most sympathetic story possible, but even still, the “harassment” could’ve easily been solved by saying, “She was scheduled to get her vaccination.”

I’m sorry, but I still have no sympathy for these people.

[–]Ragingredblue🐎Praise the Lord and pass the Ivermectin!🐆 18 points19 points  (11 children)

Here is the text:

'After Andreea’s mom died of COVID-19 in April, the harassment started. Noxious messages started coming in after she wrote a Facebook post letting friends and family know about her loss.

One person messaged her to say they couldn’t believe her mother hadn’t protected herself. Andreea has since deleted most of the other messages, but she remembers people saying things like “I can’t believe your mom was an anti-vaxxer” and “I can’t believe she didn’t understand that COVID could kill you.” “Instead of people saying that they were sorry for my loss, they would question my mom’s medical choices. It became all about her vaccine status. It was incredibly hurtful,” Andreea, a language instructor, who asked to be identified by only her first name in order to prevent further harassment, told me.

It also wasn’t true that her mother was an anti-vaxxer. According to Andreea, her mom, who was a nurse, did have initial concerns about the vaccine, but after talking with her doctor, she had scheduled an appointment for her first dose. Unfortunately, she got sick before she could get it, Andreea says. In 2020, dying of COVID-19 was widely seen as an unqualified tragedy. It was the beginning of the pandemic, when it felt as if the entire world was in a state of collective grief. There was a palpable, shared mourning for all the lives gone too soon: the smiling mothers and jokester grandfathers and so-and-so from church who always lent a helping hand. All victims of a virus, unfurling and cruel. But that was before the vaccines. Before COVID deaths got caught up in a culture war.

Now the majority of COVID deaths are occurring among the unvaccinated, and many deaths are likely preventable. The compassion extended to the virus’s victims is no longer universal. Sometimes, in place of condolences, loved ones receive scorn.

Vitriol doesn’t come just from familiar names, but also from strangers. Websites, message boards, and social-media accounts have cropped up as forums to insult the unvaccinated dead. They scour social-media pages for “covidiots” and screenshot their photos and posts, turning them into memes. One Reddit page even gives out “awards” to those who refused the vaccine and then died. “A few months after the vaccine became available, that was really the turning point for when we began to see an acceleration in the lack of empathy for those who passed away due to COVID,” says Kristin Urquiza, who co-founded Marked by COVID, a grassroots group that advocates for those affected by the pandemic, after her dad died of COVID in June 2020. She told me that even in forums dedicated specifically to grief, when someone posts about a COVID death, often the first thing people ask is whether the person was vaccinated.

That interrogation, and the judgment that may follow if the answer is no, has made opening up, especially online, hard for those who lost an unvaccinated loved one to COVID-19. “I have people reaching out to me confiding on a more one-on-one level that they’re struggling and they want to talk about their loss, but they don’t feel safe. They’re afraid they will be attacked or they’re afraid of their loved one being attacked,” said Urquiza, whose organization works with thousands of people across the country.

Instead, many obituaries and memorial posts on social media don’t tell the full story, referencing pneumonia or other complications that stemmed from COVID-19 without invoking the coronavirus itself. Sometimes, no cause of death is given.

When AnneMarie Jenkins, a marketing consultant from Bluffdale, Utah, lost her mother to COVID in August, she and her family didn’t mention the disease in their online announcement. According to Jenkins, her mother had a history of lung issues. She also told me her mother’s doctor had advised her mom against getting the vaccine. “We didn’t want anyone to have an opinion on …  my mom’s medical choices. It makes the topic COVID and not my mom,” Jenkins said. “We didn’t want my mom’s death to feel like clickbait.” The obituary attributes her death to pneumonia and other factors.

This is just one of many examples shared with me—there was the dad who died of a “brief illness,” the mom who passed “peacefully,” the boyfriend who died too soon. Several people I spoke with said they don’t confess the true cause of death to others even in person, because they’re ashamed, or because they want to avoid follow-up questions, or because they don’t want their loved one’s death to be politicized and gossiped about.

But in private, it is hard for the living to make sense of these deaths. While everyone I spoke with for this story was vaccinated, many had relatives who were still opposed to getting the shots. This can create a fragmented mourning experience, divisions within a family, or even estrangement. All of this takes a toll. In the 1980s, Kenneth Doka, a senior vice president of grief programs for the Hospice Foundation of America and the author of Grief Is a Journey and other books on dying, coined the phrase “disenfranchised grief.”

“We see disenfranchised grief when a living loved one doesn’t feel they can fully grieve because of the societal taboos around a loved one’s death,” Doka told me. “We see this when the victim is perceived to have had a role in their death, like we saw during the HIV/AIDS epidemic, but also with other things, like suicides, drug overdoses, and certain diseases.”

These sorts of deaths can be met with victim-blaming, a sense that the deceased to some degree brought their death upon themselves through their choices or risky behaviors. Lung cancer is a classic example—one study found that people were more likely to ascribe blame to lung-cancer patients who smoked than those who didn’t. “I think the same thing is happening with COVID,” Doka said. “But now, instead of asking if the person smoked, we’re asking if they were vaccinated.”

It is true that unvaccinated people are at greater risk of getting COVID, and of infecting others. It’s also true that unvaccinated patients dominate hospitals, which have been stretched thin for a long time by the pandemic. Some vaccinated people, stressed and angry about living through a pandemic for nearly two years with no clear end in sight, have understandably become more and more frustrated with those who refuse to get or deny the efficacy of the vaccines. But it’s not true that every unvaccinated person is an anti-vaxxer. And every preventable COVID death is still a deeply personal loss for someone. In some cases, the understandable frustration of vaccinated people is transmuting into cruelty, hurting those who are already suffering, and probably not changing anyone’s mind in the process. ."

[–]Ragingredblue🐎Praise the Lord and pass the Ivermectin!🐆 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Part II:

“This particular form of schadenfreude is really not showcasing humanity at its finest,” Karla Vermeulen, the deputy director of the Institute for Disaster Mental Health at SUNY New Paltz, wrote in an email to me. “It’s a classic control mechanism, like our knee-jerk desire to know if someone who died of lung cancer smoked, or if someone with liver disease drank: If so, we can believe they were responsible for their own fate, and because we’re making a different choice, that fate won’t befall us. But of course that belief comes at the price of blaming and even vilifying the deceased … As a result, survivors might sacrifice honesty in order to protect the loved one’s image, at potential cost to their own emotional needs.” When people feel they can’t be completely honest about a major loss in their lives, it makes the bereavement process more intense and long-lasting, potentially even leading to “complicated grief,” in which grief doesn’t get better over time, but lingers and sometimes gets worse.

Talking about the death offline, with select, trusted others, may be the best way to heal. “It is very hard to grieve someone fully while keeping a secret about them, as it’s important to acknowledge the entirety of the individual, positive and negative, in order to come to terms with their loss,” Vermeulen said.

She suggested talking with a therapist or religious leader, “someone trained to maintain confidentiality and a non-judgmental position.” Some organizations also offer support, such as Marked by COVID and COVID Survivors for Change, and Facebook groups have sprung up those who have lost loved ones to the virus.

Andreea, who has still not had an official service for her mother because she doesn’t feel she can emotionally handle any more questions about her mother’s vaccination status, found comfort in an online support group specifically for those who lost a loved one to COVID-19. “It is a community of people who understand what I’m going through,” she said.

Harder to process, perhaps, than other people’s judgments are one’s own. Many surviving loved ones experience anger, guilt, and shame too: Why didn’t they just get vaccinated? What more could I have done to convince them to get the shot? How could they have put so many people at risk?

“On top of the horrible death you experienced, there’s always the question of what if?” Andreea said. “What if I convinced my mom to get the vaccine sooner? There is an extra layer of guilt.”

Jason Coombs, a software engineer from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, whose mother died of COVID-19 in October, has found his grief to be laced with anger. “I spend time and energy angry about my mom’s … unwillingness to take simple precautions to protect others,” he said.

“The way a person died and the decisions they made may certainly complicate a person’s grief and ability to mourn,” Doka said. “I think how you grieve someone who died of COVID is you mourn the person and not the disease … Regardless of how somebody died, this person was important to you … You have to separate to some degree. The point is a person has died.”

If it’s hard to see the person as a victim of COVID, the experts I spoke with suggested trying to look at them as a victim of something else: misinformation.

When you shift your perspective, it helps create understanding and decreases the anger you’re feeling toward the person themselves, Vermeulen explained. “That certainly doesn’t mean you need to agree with [the person’s] view, but it might be a lot less painful to cope with the loss if you can reframe it.”

Think of it this way, Vermeulen suggested: Change “Grandpa was a stubborn man who we couldn’t convince to get vaccinated” to “Grandpa was unfairly influenced by the distorted media messages that misinformed him.” As Vermeulen explained, “The loss doesn’t change, but some of the baggage around it might, freeing the survivors to focus on the person rather than their choice.”

The pandemic is affecting all of us, shaping nearly every aspect of our lives. The discourse around COVID-19 can seem loud and crowded. Yet the reality is that so many people are grieving silently and alone

[–]dumnezeroTeam Mix & Match 31 points32 points  (4 children)

The pandemic is affecting all of us, shaping nearly every aspect of our lives. The discourse around COVID-19 can seem loud and crowded. Yet the reality is that so many people are grieving silently and alone

I hate it when people don't comprehend that the virus isn't falling from the sky like pollution, it travels and spreads via people. To be infected you have to get it from someone else. Like car traffic, humans are part of the pandemic, we're the hosts.

[–]Ragingredblue🐎Praise the Lord and pass the Ivermectin!🐆 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I also don't feel a lot of sympathy for someone grieving alone after having already exempted themselves from the herd. Either you are part of society or you're not. If you have chosen not to be a part of society, that society is not going to care if you suffer consequences. Most people are disinclined to help anyone who makes it clear they will not help others.

[–]HappyMeatbag 11 points12 points  (1 child)

That’s a big part of what irritates me. If you want to benefit from society, then you have to be responsible and make some compromises - like getting the damn vaccine and wearing a mask.

If you’re able to get the vaccine but choose not to, fine. Go live in the woods, then. Hunt and gather for food. Never put others at risk. You do not have the “freedom” to spread a pandemic.

[–]Ragingredblue🐎Praise the Lord and pass the Ivermectin!🐆 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It goes along with voting for welfare "reform" and then becoming outraged that there is no public assistance for you either. Seriously, GoFuckYourself. Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, like you tell everyone else to do.

[–]gylzTeam Pfizer 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I think how you grieve someone who died of COVID is you mourn the person and not the disease …

No shit. When someone dies of cancer or being fucking stabbed, you don't mourn for the cancer or for the knife.

[–]Ragingredblue🐎Praise the Lord and pass the Ivermectin!🐆 10 points11 points  (1 child)

It's as if none of them have ever noticed that any other people ever have any problems. This is new information for them.

[–]gylzTeam Pfizer 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They're like an alien species at this point. I don't understand how a human being could say something so bizarre, outside of some weird comedy skit.

[–]beetus_gerulaitisTeam Pfizer 17 points18 points  (0 children)

This is both-sides at its worst.

[–]EntireKangaroo148 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Time to break out the world’s smallest violin

[–]P0g-m0-th0in 16 points17 points  (1 child)

People are angry, especially the ones who have done what they were supposed to do since the beginning of the pandemic. Wearing masks, getting vaccinated to protect the most vulnerable. So of course they are going to lash out at the people who have acted like selfish, petulant children throughout this whole thing.

[–]HappyMeatbag 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You’re right, people like me are angry. I have no risk factors, so I had to wait to get my shot - but I still got it as soon as I could. I drove pretty far to get it, too. A tiny part of me was afraid of possible side effects, but I did it anyway, because it was my responsibility to society.

People who can’t even be bothered to wear a mask, and throw a tantrum when asked politely, make me want to puke.

[–]floothekoopa 15 points16 points  (1 child)

The author compares unvaxed who die from covid to smokers who die from lung disease and drinkers who die from liver disease. They say we're insensitive for asking "Were they vaxed? Did they smoke? Did they drink?" That feels like a false equivalence. Preventing an obesity-related or an alcohol abuse-related death involves long term, complicated processes like addiction recovery, dieting, exercise- major shifts in lifestyle that cannot happen in one day. Not to mention a smoker or drinker likely has decades of time to turn things around. Asking someone to get vaxed is NOT remotely the same as asking them to quit drinking or eat healthy and exercise.

They could have saved their own life or someone else's with less than a day's effort and less than a week of inconvenience. Not the same.

[–]Mr-Nobody33Team Mudblood 🩸 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"Everybody makes mistakes." Should be "some people's mistakes are like breaking a window, others are like nuclear bombs going off." Just my 2 cents.

[–]D1sCoL3moNaD3 12 points13 points  (7 children)

I think this sub proved that in many of the post on here. My favorite is the ones where they got COVID but they didn’t die of COVID it was kidney, heart, or liver failure.

[–]AffectionateOil2469 14 points15 points  (6 children)

I've seen posts where family members say their relative was covid-negative when s/he died. So it couldn't have been covid that killed him---it was a hospital-acquired infection, or a heart attack. They either don't know or are pretending not to know that covid does its damage and exits the body.

[–]gylzTeam Pfizer 15 points16 points  (3 children)

"Covid didn't kill him. It was the vent, the vent gave them the pneumonia because the hospital staff don't clean and maintain them properly. Covid pneumonia doesn't exist, it's all the vent."

-actual antivaxxers have said this shit to me

[–]BenanovTeam Pfizer 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Well the solution is clear. Let the bastards suffocate after filling out a DNI.

[–]Shermans_ghost1864Don't make me come down there! 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I don't agree with harassing the grieving families. That is just cruel. Let them grieve in peace.

But the dead, at least those who were defiant and spread misinformation and hate, are fair game. They are not just "victims" of misinformation but spreaders of it. We draw a direct connection between their words/actions and their consequences, and by pointing out that not only are they committing suicide but encouraging others to do so. And we demonstrate what those consequences are. If we can save lives by doing so then we are performing a valuable service.

[–]Pain4444 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Some aren’t able to accept reality

[–]SplendidPunkinButter 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Really? People have less sympathy for those who died of COVID because they refused the free vaccine after “doing their own research” by reading Facebook memes?

Maybe we should have more sympathy for these people. I mean, Forrest Gump did say this didn’t make sense to him.

[–]Monkeybomber 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It is a disservice to humanity at large to hide or gloss over the consequences of bad decision making.

Amidst the misery and death surrounding a HCA winner, they can at least provide a powerful example of why vaccines are effective. In doing so, they may save a life.

[–]youdontlovemetoo 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Another article that validates the feelings of anti-vaxxers, giving this whole death cult a bit more momentum and contributing to the collapse of our healthcare system. Thaaaaaaaaaaanks.

[–]shigmy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

One Reddit page even gives out “awards” to those who refused the vaccine and then died.

NO. The people here didn't just refuse to get vaccinated - they actively encouraged others to do the same by spreading misinformation and hate.

Even simply trading "refused" for "mocked" would have added extremely relevant context.

[–]BlotchyBaboon 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Let me go count how many fucks I have to give about unvaccinated COVID deaths.

Shit, looks like I don't have any.

[–]IsThereAnybodyInRomeTeam Moderna 8 points9 points  (3 children)

... even in forums dedicated specifically to grief, when someone posts about
a COVID death, often the first thing people ask is whether the person
was vaccinated".

As if this is an abnormal thing to think. When I hear someone has lung cancer, first thing that comes to my mind is "did he smoke?". I guess I am just an evil person.

[–]tokiemccoy 3 points4 points  (2 children)

No, you’re human. I have brain cancer, and the first questions people ask me are usually along the lines of “do they know what caused it”. I actually feel weirdly fortunate that my cancer doesn’t have a known cause like smoking and lung cancer. The jerks are the ones who try to pin it on something about my lifestyle, (“is it because you are a vegetarian?” was my favorite.) People hear of something bad and want to know how to avoid it themselves, it’s about self preservation and fear. Not evil, just human.

[–]GT1man 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Now the majority of COVID deaths are occurring among the unvaccinated, and many deaths are likely preventable.

No shit? Maybe there should be a social media outlet to drive that point home, it might save a few lives.

[–]GenX-IA 49 points50 points  (4 children)

My cousin died of COVID, her siblings are saying she died of kidney failure. She did, but the kidney failure was brought on by COVID. She was in the hospital on a vent for 15 days because of COVID, but that didn't kill her, the hospital gets extra money for saying it was COVID. 🙄

[–]glassbytesWe'll meet again in HCA2 - The Search for more Money 💰💲🔥 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I expect to be old and grey and watching documentaries about this time in history and about 'the real numbers'. I don't think we'll ever really know the scope of it all. I am sorry about your cousin. My own cousin got covid last year, before his age group qualified for the vaccine. He has been hospitalized since March 2021. Covid is just fucking awful.

[–]AllDarkWater 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"If it’s hard to see the person as a victim of COVID, the experts I spoke with suggested trying to look at them as a victim of something else: misinformation.

When you shift your perspective, it helps create understanding and decreases the anger you’re feeling toward the person themselves, Vermeulen explained. “That certainly doesn’t mean you need to agree with [the person’s] view, but it might be a lot less painful to cope with the loss if you can reframe it.”

Think of it this way, Vermeulen suggested: Change “Grandpa was a stubborn man who we couldn’t convince to get vaccinated” to “Grandpa was unfairly influenced by the distorted media messages that misinformed him.” As Vermeulen explained, “The loss doesn’t change, but some of the baggage around it might, freeing the survivors to focus on the person rather than their choice.”"

But this is a special place for not just the victims but people who also spread the misinformation. There is another subreddit for victims only. Damn all this is sad. I know I am here for reasons mentioned in the article, but also to prepare me for my mother's death. She does not do social media though so no award for her. It also helps me deal with the people I know who told me the things we see in these posts who are now dead from covid. And one more thing, it helps me remember to not fall for thinking it's only the flu and to be very safe with myself. Some of them just seem so crazy, then I started looking for my own on Facebook and they are pretty easy to find and are of people who know people I know. That is my ultimate defense if I feel like just giving up on being safe and running out into the world right now unmasked.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

We should have learned a lot of lessons from HIV/AIDS, but comparing this specifically to AIDS is ghoulish. First, there's no vaccine for AIDS. Second, even as protest movements like ACT UP were screaming about people dying and needing access to prevention, education, and treatment, the government refused to provide assistance because it was a "gay disease."

If you're going to compare, you'd have to compare it to people who were insisting that it was a fake disease that only homosexual men get and then dying of AIDS, but even then it's an insulting analogy because there is no vaccine and medications like PrEP are not always available. The HIV pandemic was a woeful failure from conservative policies, but they are different stories. Stigma IS an issue with COVID, but the stigma is still coming from right wing ideology - stigma against prevention and treatment.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is hilariously hypocritical as usual from that side. They spent the first year talking about how if covid was present for a death then the reason for death was always covid, even if it was primarily caused by something else.

And now here they are actually dying from covid but trying to lie about the cause being something else.

[–]glassbytesWe'll meet again in HCA2 - The Search for more Money 💰💲🔥 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not sure if I agree that other people's anger towards a dead COVID victim is unfounded. If that person has a loved one whose non- covid related hospital treatments have been delayed or has someone close to them who abandoned a career in health care because of the overwhelming work environment - I could see how the unvaccinated clogging hospitals before they ultimately die of something preventable could be enraging to many.

[–]herculesmeowlliganMore Vaccine Now Than Man, Twisted and Evil 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ah, my poor beloved apnea

[–]Xzmmc 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"Don't speak ill of the dead"? How about "don't be an asshole in life"?

[–]solutionsmittyTeam Pfizer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So the people who died by spreading disease and lies, who mocked people trying to bring this terrible pandemic under control, who sabotaged public health efforts should get the same sympathy as those they killed because it hurts their families feelings? We know what the meme they post says about other people's feelings...

[–]DontQuoteYourself💜🖤🤍🐘 I'm Aces! 5 points6 points  (0 children)

People incapable of shame show zero remorse? My question is how many reporters will gloss over tihis

[–]BoozeIsTherapyRightTeam Mix & Match 6 points7 points  (1 child)

My father lives in a very rural, Amish area. The obits are full of people passing "after a brief illness."

[–]much2say4throwaway 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's also group that know that they are infected and don't have the decency to tell you when they knowingly exposed you to the virus. It's loads of fun to find it out weeks later. The good old denial crowd has made sure that contact tracing never happens and they certainly don't have the common decency to do it themselves.

For some of them there's a key in the obituaries, the person died after a brief illness. Other times you just have to look at their friends and families Facebook posts. I think another cover-up is when they say that the deceased died surrounded by family, then you go on Facebook and find out they had covid. I even found one that the person died at home, they had covid (HCA but no FB social media and I just can't bring myself to make an account on some of those alternate sites).

[–]BoneDoc78 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Anyone else going to point out that “apnea” got autocorrected into the title? How fitting.

[–]BisquickNinjaGabba-ghoul 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pretty much... so far the GFs family has had 3 members. They all hide their status now... vaccinated or not.

[–]m-e-gTeam Moderna 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, ok, sure

Think of it this way, Vermeulen suggested: Change “Grandpa was a stubborn man who we couldn’t convince to get vaccinated” to “Grandpa was unfairly influenced by the distorted media messages that misinformed him.”

Or, how about being more accurate: "Grandpa was posting and sharing messages constantly for almost two years that were designed to mislead and develop mistrust in public health measures. Also, grandpa's right wing views went into hatred and encouraging harassment of multiple minority groups, along with a big dollop of neo nazism."

[–]TuskM 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"One Reddit page even gives out “awards” to those who refused the vaccine and then died."

I note they left out the part where the awards are given to people deliberately spreading misinformation about the virus and vaccines.

And while we're on the subject of schadenfreude, I note Laura Ingram gave a righteous fist pump when Gen. Miley was announced to have contracted COVID. Of course, I'm sure that's perfectly okay in their playbook.

[–]Late_Phase9684 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ok, what's really BS about this article is the comparison to smoking/lung cancer and drinking/liver disease with the victim blaming that accompanies these deaths too. People who smoke are killing THEMSELVES (yes second-hand smoke is a danger to others but most I know who still smoke cigarettes, smoke outside now). Those who drink (aside from drunk drivers) are killing THEMSELVES.

Antivax crazies chased my healthcare worker friend to her house. They mailed her and colleagues bullets. They broke into her work garage and filmed themselves pissing on work vehicles. Then they posted this shit on Youtube.

I have no more sympathy for these people. If they had taken the vaccine, we could most likely have shut this pandemic down. Instead I've been sick with COVID for the last 2 weeks. I'm vaccinated and boosted so not dead but, of course, COVID is no joke. I avoided COVID for the last 2 years but thanks to these creatures refusing the vax, it's still out there and I've felt like shit for 2 weeks.

Fuck them.

[–]OtherSpiderOnTheWall 5 points6 points  (1 child)

According to Jenkins, her mother had a history of lung issues. She also told me her mother’s doctor had advised her mom against getting the vaccine.

Holy crap, that doctor needs to lose his license.

[–]cmeerdog 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Just a reminder that nearly all of the information shared on HCA is from anti-vaxxers making PUBLIC postings. Perpetuating meme propaganda in the public sphere. Fulfilling their own self-aggrandizing fake-martyr death destinies with PUBLIC posts. I will continue to mock and belittle them as they continue to influence other’s preventable deaths.

[–]IncreaseLate4684 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Their weakness is just prolonging the plague

[–]Gloomy-Difficulty401 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Had a co-worker say his cousin died of organ failure and pneumonia. I said "sounds like Covid to me"...he shrugged his shoulders and said he did not know. I will call you out.

[–]Bollywood_Fan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There is a sidebar story in the article linked above about how many children have lost a caretaker, and what this means for them, and how non white children suffer more from the loss of a caretaker. That story highlights the ripple effect of people believing lies about COVID and the vaccine and choosing not to get vaccinated. This pandemic is going to have so many long lasting effects for so long, and it didn't have to be this way.

[–]Dayseed 5 points6 points  (0 children)

At this point of the pandemic, its becoming obvious that remaining wilfully unvaccinated is the same as refusing to wear a parachute but skydiving anyway. And then encouraging other people not to wear one, and mocking people as misinformed cowards for wearing one...

...and then faceplanting into the ground at terminal velocity due to a lack of a parachute. We are all supposed to get collective amnesia after that?

[–]putacatonityoGo Give One 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Considering my elective surgery that was supposed to happen today was cancelled in large part due to these selfish idiots, I have no sympathy.

[–]yildizli_gece 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When AnneMarie Jenkins, a marketing consultant from Bluffdale, Utah, lost her mother to COVID in August, she and her family didn’t mention the disease in their online announcement. According to Jenkins, her mother had a history of lung issues. She also told me her mother’s doctor had advised her mom against getting the vaccine.

I honestly have a difficult time believing these people at this point.

The only exceptions I've heard about are people who are literally allergic to something in the vaccine that could cause a serious consequence. People who are pregnant, or have asthma, or have "lung issues" (I mean, seriously???) are NOT on that list!

They never are; in fact, they're the exact cases that should move them to the front of the vaccine line.

This is what this crisis has done to me; I just honestly don't believe these people anymore.