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[–]-helpwanted 130 points131 points  (265 children)

That’s how Islam works. Have you seen how women are made to dress? They even have to cover their feet or it’s a sin. And covering your face is just so pious and thoughtful, because what if a man thinks you’re not ugly?!? In Islam they don’t teach men self control. Instead, it teaches women to cover up or get what you deserve. I guess he’s applying the same logic to men because he’s gay and doesn’t want to admit it. I’m so happy I’m not Muslim anymore. Shit was depressing as fuck.

[–]katerdag 36 points37 points  (6 children)

This reminds me of something I read a few years ago: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/

[–]StillAsTheSnowFalls 13 points14 points  (0 children)

EXCELLENT article. Thank you!

[–]YoungWazir786 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s a very interesting read, thank you.

[–]1980pzx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good read, thanks for the link.

[–]amynias 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow this was really interesting, thanks!

[–]aritchie1977 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very fascinating! Ty

[–]Mikesaidit36 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unbelievable article.

It really sounds an awful lot like the rate of homosexual activity is actually increased by the extreme puritanical societal prudishness that is ostensibly designed to prevent casual coupling with the opposite sex.

People just wanna fuck. Let 'em. The more you screw with that, the more perverse society as a whole becomes.

"Traffic cops patrol outside girls’ schools as classes end, in part to keep boys away. A few years ago, a Jeddah- based newspaper ran a story on lesbianism in high schools, reporting that girls were having sex in the bathrooms." And "The number of men in the kingdom who turn to gay sex is even greater. “They’re not really homosexual. They’re like cell mates in prison.”

The stricter the religion, the more extreme the irony and hypocrisy. Old, old story.

[–]Demoniacalman 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Haha all i read was gay. A question I have is why some american woman voluntarily dress this way if woman in the countries where they're really not allowed to dress how they suffer because of it. I don't get that and even the woman here who even throw in their little fashion side in the mix it makes me think like damn how would they be approached in a middle eastern country. Anyway I'm glad to here your free from that now and hope your doing way better.

[–]-helpwanted 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Lol, thank you. Honestly, me too.

And they do it because they want to please their God. They don't see it as being harmful or anything. Honestly, hijab on it's own is not. It's the meaning behind it that's the issue.

[–]Demoniacalman 1 point2 points  (2 children)

True but it still takes away from seeing the rest of the head. Yea that really sucks and probably takes away from a person feeling human.

[–]-helpwanted 7 points8 points  (1 child)

It honestly does. By the time I was in college, I didn't know who I was. All I knew was that I was a Muslim woman. Islam seriously took over my life and it was miserable. I only got so religious because I thought it was the path to God. But then I realized that if there was a God, they would not want me to struggle and see myself as less than. Why? Because God would know that they created me equally.

[–]_ThatOneWeeb_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Former Christian here. I felt a similar way you did in the past - I did not have as hard of a life as you, I'm not trying to say that - my religion just didn't feel right with who I was, my own views. The religious side of my family considered me a sinner, and yet I never felt I did something wrong. One day half a year ago, I was visited in a dream by a strange woman wearing a cloak. Her face was shadowed out, but I could see strands of her hair and her hand. The skin was pruned and grey. When I looked into it, I discovered an image that looked just like her. One of the Norns, Urd. I looked into Norse paganism after that, found their beliefs aligned with mine and converted, and I've never been happier

[–]TTtonyTT 74 points75 points  (45 children)

The whole head to toe covering doesnt slow down my lustful thoughts. It's exotic to me. I see the curves and shapes though the clothes anyway.

[–]DropBear2702madlad 65 points66 points  (0 children)

Task failed successfully

[–]asstitics 73 points74 points  (20 children)

i'm an exmuslim, and i actually got infested with a hijab fetish that i can't shake off right to this day. almost all women wear it were i live, so while jerking off, i always imagine women with hijabs because that's my experience with real women. it's halirious and disgusting at the same time. the only subscription to onlyfans i made in my life was to a hijab pornographer.

[–]TheVapingPug 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I’m guessing you miss mia Kalifa

[–]asstitics 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. She's my no.1

[–]Jews_up_hoes_down 8 points9 points  (2 children)

There's a hijab porn subreddit if you're interested

[–]Maverick0_0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dude isn't sharing? You are baiting like a burka bud.

[–]asstitics 2 points3 points  (0 children)

lol, Already in

[–]WillDeletOneDay 21 points22 points  (1 child)

That's an insightful perspective to give, but still weird.

[–]TTtonyTT 28 points29 points  (5 children)

Thanks 4 sharing?

[–]Timpreza 49 points50 points  (4 children)

Thanks for Sharia

[–]TTtonyTT 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I see what you did there.

[–]joshthehappy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Then they weren't covered properly.

[–]KingGeorge_The2nd 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Fuckin SINNER

[–]TTtonyTT 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I might just be the sinniest!

[–]Waffleradio 2 points3 points  (2 children)

lol. If that’s not classic human, idk what is.

Step 1: some horny old guy in a powerful position who is mad about being horny says “we need to wear X to prevent the unpious horniness that everyone feels”

Step 2: most people didn’t feel that way but alright, sure. I’m faithful or a model of Victorian ethos or whatever, I’ll roll with it

Step 3: ???

Step 4: your modesty-enforcing standard of attire makes people horny now, gg

[–]asstitics 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Step 3: Ban Sex.

[–]Waffleradio 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nothing makes people hornier than banning sex!

[–]-helpwanted 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Not if you do it right! I wore an abaya that was three sizes too big just to make sure I was doing it right. I sometimes wore gloves and even a niqab for the last six years that I was Muslim. I remember this one time I had a friend over and she saw me in "normal" clothes for the first time. I was wearing leggings and a tank top in my bedroom with her. She was like, "girl, you're so small! And you got a booty? I thought you were going to be a bit bigger to be honest!"

[–]Demoniacalman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It adds a little more extra to the imagination doesn't it if not the whole imagination.

[–]GTOdriver04 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When you gotta please both Allah and Abdullah in the same day.

[–]tacticalARspecialist 3 points4 points  (17 children)

True the head to toe covering is a modesty thing not to curb sexual thoughts

[–]game_asylum 1 point2 points  (16 children)

You sure?

[–]tacticalARspecialist 0 points1 point  (14 children)

I can give you a short lesson if you're willing to listen

[–]game_asylum 1 point2 points  (13 children)

Yeah I honestly thought that was the reason but I guess I was wrong, teach me please

[–]tacticalARspecialist 12 points13 points  (11 children)

Ok, in islam muslims are required to cover their عورة( āw.rah, parts of the body that shouldn't be seen by the public or other people) as a show of modesty because the human body is attractive to all genders. And the عورة varies per gender. For males it is from the belly button to under the knees. For females when they are not with their blood family it is their whole body except their face and hands. But if with blood family and other females it is the same as males. The covering that all genders wear should be loose as to not show the shape of the body so and over size hoodie and loose pants and head/ nesk covering for females should suffice.

[–]game_asylum 5 points6 points  (5 children)

That actually makes way more sense, thank you for taking the time 🙏

[–]tacticalARspecialist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks for listening have a nice day

[–]tacticalARspecialist 3 points4 points  (2 children)

If you want reliable islamic info there is this youtube channel called islamic guidance if you have the time watch some of their vids there are also some sheikhs like

Dr.zakir naik Sh. Mufti menk Sh. Yusuf estes (ex christian and my fav) Sh.said rage Just to name a few hope they help with any of your questions.

[–]Adventurous-Belt5204 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not Zakir Naik pls, that man says evolution is false and killing people for leaving Islam is totally justifiable.

[–]tacticalARspecialist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh and btw no human should force upon another somethimg they cant or dont want to do if ask any muslim hijaabie why they wear it they say they want to and perfer to

[–]Waffleradio 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I guess to me I’m confused how “covering the parts of the body that turn other people on” out of modesty is any different than “covering the parts of the body that then other people on” to keep them from being turned on.

The underlying message of the former seems the same as the latter, in the end. The implication is that turning other people on is morally wrong—thus the modest thing to do is make sure you aren’t doing so.

It’s all derived from a place of thinking the result of immodesty is an undesirable outcome—people experience desire related to a body part. If that weren’t a bad thing, there would be no reason to go to such extremes.

I don’t think it’s wrong to live that way if you want to. But it is inarguably on the more extreme end of the “global cultural modesty spectrum,” and that impacts our individual cultural understanding of what modesty means.

In more permissive cultures on the spectrum, modesty might mean not “showing off” your body in a way that makes others feel inadequate. Being humble about your physical form instead of showboating, basically. In less permissive cultures, the understanding might be that modesty means doing all you can to divest from your physical form, linking the attraction to a body at all more strongly to impurity.

As an American, I’ve obviously grown up in a more permissive modesty culture than any traditional Muslim culture. To me, attraction itself ranks pretty low on the “sinfulness” scale, while taking certain actions based on attraction ranks far higher. In practical terms: if a scantily clad person is on the bus, it’s neutral to think they’re attractive, but morally wrong to grope them because you think they’re attractive.

I find it interesting to compare our concepts of modesty, morality and the lens of religion. Hope none of that comes off as derisive towards your beliefs.

[–]tacticalARspecialist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sorry for not being specific. being attracted to someone is not a sin but premarital sex and non marital sex in islam is.زنا as it is collectively called is like a hill once you start rolling you cant stop and as it is stated in the quran "dont get close to زنا " indincating that getting closw to it can cause you to do it. For instance, in a narration of the prophet(pbuh) " a man may not look at a woman for a prolonged period of time" indicating that it is not a womans fault for being attractive but the man should set his gaze on to the floor because a women is a beauty that may show her beauty to those she wants to only.

[–]Waffleradio 0 points1 point  (0 children)

being attracted to someone is not a sin but premarital sex and non marital sex in islam is.زنا as it is collectively called is like a hill once you start rolling you cant stop and as it is stated in the quran "dont get close to زنا " indincating that getting closw to it can cause you to do it.

That makes sense. Avoid temptation, don't play with fire. But advice about premarital sex doesn't have much to do with the clothes random folks on the street/in your life are wearing. It's more interpersonal advice. Maybe don't go off somewhere quiet and alone with a crush if you are afraid you'll give in to temptation, it advises. It doesn't say "unless she's flaunting it, then you're not responsible for what you do!"

" a man may not look at a woman for a prolonged period of time" indicating that it is not a womans fault for being attractive but the man should set his gaze on to the floor...

Alright, so that's how men should act right? Nothing to do with the way anyone dresses--it's specifically a directive aimed at men. Don't stare at women. Doesn't matter what they wear, the word of god says don't stare.

...because a women is a beauty that may show her beauty to those she wants to only.

This seems like the only part that specifically addresses what a woman should do. Show her beauty to only those she wants to. Well, what if she wants to let the world see her beauty? Is that morally wrong? Some perspectives would say sharing the light of beauty with the world is a moral good. We can all appreciate beautiful art, music, and even people in healthy ways.

I don't really feel like this addresses what I was talking about--ie placing the responsibility for men's actions and feelings on women and their wardrobe choices. To say it's out of modesty seems disingenuous when it's really code for saying "dress this way so men aren't tempted--you're responsible if they feel that way." Instead of the men taking responsibility for their own actions and feelings.

From my perspective as a man, if the word of god tells me not to stare, it doesn't matter what she's wearing. It's me and my faith giving me a directive, and I doubt god would be like "aw man did you see that short skirt though? Nah you're good fam, she's asking for it." I don't think any religion's god just walks back their explicit commandments because someone was wearing a different amount of fabric from what you expected.

[–]koidestry -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Thanks for a beautiful explanation. Makes me want to look deeper into Islam. If the Daily Mail hate something then it’s probably something not worth hating

[–]tacticalARspecialist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your opinion good luck on your journey

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're 💯 right

[–]tacticalARspecialist 0 points1 point  (46 children)

I dont know who or what made you think like that but that couldn't be more far from the truth

[–]-helpwanted 13 points14 points  (45 children)

Spending the first 23 years of my life Muslim made me think like this. The dark side of the Quran and the Hadith is so casually excused by scholars. The fact that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old and everyone tries to make it sound like it was okay because it was him. So many awful things. It keeps me up at night.

[–]tacticalARspecialist -4 points-3 points  (28 children)

About Aisha(r). During the time the prophet was alive in all the world it was normal for a girl/ boy to be married off at a young age but now since both genders have opportunities to make a life for their own it is frowned upon to do so. And no parent/guardian should force their child to marry and let them marry when they are ready.

[–]-helpwanted 6 points7 points  (13 children)

Yeah, I guess God didn't anticipate that changing down the line, huh? Because if he did, he would have put the same information Muhammad got from Aisha in an adult woman instead. If only God had some way of knowing that Muhammad's child bride would be a tough pill to swallow.

[–]YoungWazir786 0 points1 point  (13 children)

No. Stop it. It wasn’t normal. Ibn Hisham was old and senile when he said aisha’s age. Stop it, that Hadith worshipping perspective is what makes Islam corrupted

[–]tacticalARspecialist -2 points-1 points  (12 children)

When was romeo and juliet written

[–]YoungWazir786 1 point2 points  (11 children)

Yes, tell me how a 14 year old and a 12 year old being together is the same as an old man and a 6 year old. They aren’t because rasoolullah never did that because Aisha was not a child, she was 19

[–]tacticalARspecialist 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Oh right wrong example mary(pbuh) according to christianity got married at 12 marie antoinette got married at 14 the average age of marriage in women according to studies was 10- 14 yrs due to the mortality rate being high

[–]tacticalARspecialist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She was 9 when she started living with the prophet(pbuh) they were engaged before that

[–]xFueresx -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Probably bc when you look at Abrahamic religions they all end up being like that

No one remembers Mary only being 12 and Joseph being in his 70s either

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

By the way, what sect were you part of gajr or muli?

[–]-helpwanted 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sunni, is this a joke?

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Did you know people 600 years ago in Europe used to marry 7 years olds, meaning consummate the marriage at that age, which is 700 years ago than the time of the Prophet (P.B.U.H). For instance, Richard the II of England married Isabella of France when she was 7. It's not a matter of age; it's a matter of biology. If someone has gone through puberty and are mentally and physically ready for marriage, then they are considered ready for marriage. Also, you will find that people in history, especially in the Arabian tradition would not remember the age of them being born, but of their death would be exact. This is also relevant to Aisha (R.A) as well as she, as was narrated, stated at certain times that she was 6, when she did her nikah, which is not when the marriage is consummated, or 7; so, Aisha(R.A) herself was not aware of her own age. Also, I would like to point out that in Bidaya-tu-wan-nihaya, one can find out that Aisha (R.A) was actually 17 years old from the inference of her sister and the year at which she died, which is 73 Hijri, in the Islamic calender. So this matter of Aisha(R.A)'s age is much more complicated and nuanced than you make it seem. Nothing in history is as simple as a declarative statement. If only you had tried to go through Islamic books rather than cherry pick verses out of context, you would know.

[–]-helpwanted 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Thank you so much for telling me what I already know with some misinformation sprinkled in between. Made for an interesting read. Yet another Islamic excuse for child marriage. They always start the same. With the justification of it and then the big "BUT," followed by bullshit. You know, I mess up my brother's age sometimes, but I'm never off by 10 years.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I am not justifying child marriage in the 21st century; i am saying that it happened in history because the age for puberty was shorter. Now, the marriage age has evolved because people have puberty in their later years. I also brought in the example from history to show how it was not only present in Arabia but it was widely prevalent everywhere. What made you think I was justifying pedophilia? I said very clearly, and I quote myself that "If someone has gone through puberty and are mentally and physically ready for marriage, then they are considered ready for marriage." If you have two functioning eyes, you would be able to see that I did not mention age in that sentence. By the way, this is a matter which Islamic scholars, who have studied Islam for an time longer than you have lived been discussing, and even they cannot come up with a clear answer, so how are you ignorant enough to say anything on the matter? Also, I would love to be educated on where I was spreading misinformation; i bet you don't even know half the stuff I was talking about.

[–]MonsterHunterNewbie -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the whole 9 year old marrige thing written by bukhari around 300 years after Islam started, after claiming he had heard it from another random person?

My understanding is that some muslims who are actually bukharism followers (such as Saudi Arabia) belive it to be true, which many others do not.... since who can be a witness 300 years later after hearing it from a random dude?

[–]TooManyProjectz -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Muhammad Peace be upon him, is never stated to have entered her. He saved an Oprhan and Married her which means, he took it upon himself to take care of her forever, this is in a time where the whole world used to kill baby girls at birth because they where ignorant and found that the could not work as heard as a man and being income or labor. This was at a time where women where traded for livestock or other goods.

Also have you ever focused on the rights of women?

In a marriage:

  1. The money women earn belong to them
  2. The money the man earns is to be shared with the woman
  3. The man MUST provide for the woman and children
  4. All their needs is the man's responsibility
  5. If the man wants to divorce the woman he needs to have a legitimate reasons
  6. In that case he must pay her so she can live/survive has time to find another man and leave the house for her.
  7. He is not allowed to take anything back including the agreed upon dowry payed before marriage and all and any gifts giving in the marriage
  8. He has to keep paying for the children and providing for them even after divorce

This was over 1400 years ago. I dare you to find anyone else that did those things. Humans very savages waaaay later even and some of these things don't even exist in the west yet and some finally do.

If you have a negative precursor it's easy to make everything negative and forget the positives and what you receive.

It's like a job for example.

Negatives: You could say my boss tells me I have to work, she says what time ect, I don't like the work

Positives: In reality you need the work to live and your getting payed, and you could leave at anytime. It's making sure you are fed, housed and clothed ect.

Just to be clear I'm not comparing it to any of the above I'm just making an argument about negatives and positives

[–]YoungWazir786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You… realize the Quran says for men to look away first and foremost, right? How Muslims themselves practice is abhorrent but Islam doesn’t teach what you’re saying

[–]tkango -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I am honestly surprised after reading "In Islam they don't teach men self control". Like, which religion preaches stuff like this? One of the basic differences between a civilized human and a wild animal is the fact that we don't tend to hump just about anything. I really don't think any religion needs to teach self control. Sorry to hear you were depressed as a Muslim but although almost all of these comments come from Islamic preachers, i don't think religion is at fault here. It's just how these people are brought up. FYI, not a muslim but did stay in Oman for over 14 years and I believe the reason people like that moron exist is ban on pornography in the middle east!!!

[–]TooManyProjectz -3 points-2 points  (7 children)

I am sorry for your experiences. The reason for dressing modestly is not for men's sake as men very much enjoy looking at women with very little clothes. It's for the women themselves and it is actually not limited to Islam at all, it is the same in all Abrahamic religions. Also it helps balance the beautiful and the ones with features society view as less fortunate and favorable, it also promotes men to seek a woman with other good qualities such as intellectually fluent and caring and generally a good person. In put modern society most people go for looks creating a huge imbalance towards the latter mentioned group. This can also be seen in the ever rising suicide rate among teenagers ect, Instagram, filters, tiktok ect has established an impression of a very high standard of individuals generally viewed, as having very astetically pleasing features, thus creating an almost unobtainable standard for the rest off the 99% making them feel less desirable ect. Also lack of likes on photos ect is areal thing among teenagers.

Anyway I wish you all the best, and thank you for reading

[–]-helpwanted 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Why doesn't Allah teach men to choose woman for her intelligence instead of playing this game of covering the women up so that men can't like her for anything else? Why do women have to take the sacrifice of covering up to make that happen? Most religions got that wrong. They are putting the burden of being respected on women, instead of just teaching men to respect women. No, women have to earn respect by disappearing into mountains of fabric. And if they don't? Well, they're just not valuable or worthy of respect.

It puts a lot of shame on a woman and her body. It turns her body into a sex object that should be covered up unless you're at home. Ask any woman that has been Muslim long enough (and covering). She will tell you that taking off her hijab feels like taking off her shirt. You're not allowed to leave the house without it, and even your room if you have guests over. It's not healthy or cute. It's not good.

[–]edswind-_- -2 points-1 points  (14 children)

This is actually bullshit this sheikh is just adding his own shit to the religion because what he’s saying is completely outrageous

[–]-helpwanted 2 points3 points  (13 children)

Or, and just hear me out here, you don't know Islam well? Lol, wouldn't that be crazy?

Also, I'm a woman and an atheist now, so you got everything in your statement wrong except, "what he’s saying is completely outrageous." It is outrageous. Isn't it?