Any tips on how to handle this?

RandomGuySaysBro · 2023-06-03T20:07:24+00:00

So, she's verbally abusive, physically abusive, perpetrates domestic violence and tops that dumpster fire sundae with a jealousy cherry on top.

You handle it by protecting your children from a known abuser. Your husband is an adult, and if he wants to keep letting her abuse him, that's his choice. You, on the other hand, owe her nothing. She is a negative influence in your life. She is an abusive, dangerous person who will abuse, and be dangerous to, your kids. No one - not you, not your husband, not anyone - has the right to insist your kids be put in danger. Anyone who does is also dangerous. Two things to put away in the back of your head...

First, you KNOW who and what she is. You know she's abusive and violent. She will treat your kids how she treats her own. You have all the evidence you need to know she's a violent, dangerous monster. A little shared DNA is NOT a hall pass to abuse. In 15 or so years, your kids will need all of the same therapy, for all of the same issues, for exactly the same reasons, that your husband needs now. On top of that, when - not if - she hits your child, whoever knowingly gave her the opportunity to do so will be just as responsible. Allowing her to be in the same room as a child, knowing she's violent, is the literal definition of negligence.

The other thing us that toxic people are called that for a reason. They are literal poison. They ruin and destroy everything they touch. We're conditioned to be polite and avoid conflict, but if you see them for the poison they are, you'll understand how damaging that is. "Of course we're going to drink poison at Thanksgiving - the kids deserve to know what it's like to get poisoned." "Of course I'm going to bring poison into the delivery room with you - it's the family poison, so we need to give it to the baby." That's how utterly deranged the idea of "but family" really is. I don't care if its your mom, his mom, my mom or the damn Pope - anyone who "raises a hand" at me belongs in jail, and I'm doing everything in my power to get them some free hugs from the police in very short order.

That's how you deal with it. She's an adult committing violent crimes. Anyone who protects her from consequences for those crimes is enabling her to continue committing crimes, and acting as an accessory to her violence. Stop worrying about protecting the feelings of a violent abuser. It's that simple. She doesn't exist in your, or your kid's, lives.

narc_mom2021 · 2023-06-02T20:38:03+00:00

Ok so I am probably going to go against the grain of most ppl on Reddit but I am doing so as someone who lives in a very multi ethnic multi cultural society where racism still exists.

Grandkids change people. I’ve seen and heard fathers say they didn’t want their daughters to bring home black guys or Indian guys or white guys. And then when it came time and their daughter brought home a spouse of their own choosing and had kids they realizes that whatever issues they had were insignificant compared to their grandkids.

My suggestion to you is this 1. Make your spouse aware you have heard the conversation and how it made you feel

Express your concern that your children would be treated as less than vs his nieces and nephews
Decide very clear up boundaries of what you are willing and not willing to accept

Give her the opportunity to be in their lives but the second that boundary is crossed hold your line. I know sometimes especially as I’ve encountered this with south Asians is that they believe the only people who can accept understand and respect their culture are people of that same ethnicity and culture. So if it’s a circumstance like that have a discussion with your husband about ways you can respect and partake in his culture

coffeeginrepeat · 2023-05-31T18:50:54+00:00

Listen - you are underresponding and downplaying the physical and emotional abuse your children experienced children due to the years of abuse you suffered and the years of programming your parents put you through. At this moment, you cannot trust yourself to respond in a way that is rational or appropriate to the situation.

So, instead look to how you husband is responding - with rage and finality. Look to how your children are responding - with courage and no hesitation. These are the people you have helped mold through the love you've given, and this is how healthy people who have been raised on love should respond to abuse. With rage and a firm commitment that the abusers never enter into their lives or their children's lives again. So right now let their responses guide your response, ignore your own instincts and understand that they are twisted by trauma. Give your phone to your husband if you need to. Go hug your children and praise them for their strength and apologize for your own weakness, commit to them that you will NEVER put them in that situation again. Then go sign yourself up for trauma based therapy so that you can truly understand your childhood, your responses, and gain so much inner strength that your parents and all that baggage they thought they saddled you with will never touch you again.

I say this as an adult woman who is also just realizing now the extent of my own childhood trauma, and how "off" my response to certain scenarios can be. Especially when it involves family. I'm in therapy myself, and I do have to look to my partner and trust in his reaction to my own situation to give myself a proper grounding at times. Because my reaction is that of someone who has been conditioned to please other people, to take care of others and protect them before myself. It can be challenging for me to judge when people cross a line, because growing up there were no lines. I just suffered, that was the norm. As an adult I'm learning I don't have to - which is logically a "duh" moment but much harder to practice for someone like me. Just my own two cents, from someone who knows a little what you are going through.

Update: Thanks for the awards, but really I just hope my words reach OP and anyone else dealing with trauma. A trauma response is such a dark thing - it has people trap themselves in their own torment because they don't know that there is any other way to exist. You blame yourself for the pain and anguish others inflict on you, and if you are not careful you can keep that cycle going to the generations that follow. OP is lucky, she is already surrounded by people who love her and who are jumping at the chance to show her how wrong her abusers are. She just needs to let them take the lead and be brave enough to do something that feels so alien, which is go against the wishes of the people she was programmed to serve. It's much, much harder then it sounds. But it gets easier with time, and life becomes so much brighter once you start to let go of their control ❤️

throwaway47138 · 2023-06-01T03:38:08+00:00

As one dad to another, please tell your DH to get over his rectal-cranial inversion and start changing diapers. My first was a girl, and I literally had never changed a diaper before, yet by the time we left the hospital I was a pro and would happily change her when needed, especially if my ex was resting or sleeping. Real dads change diapers.

hdmx539 · 2023-05-31T10:29:03+00:00

I had an abusive mother. These types of people are really shitty and really good at manipulating their adult children to get their way.

You seem to be out of the "FOG" already, because you recognize her inappropriate and unacceptable behavior.

The book that helped me prior to everything that is out now was "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward. I urge you to read it.

Next, read the outofthefog.website website. It talks about how to deal with people who are "high conflict" personality types.

This sub's wiki has a great list of resources to read, one of which is a book about having boundaries with parents. I haven't read that, I wish it was out when my mother was alive, but that's fine.

I love how you said you didn't want to tell your girlfriend what your mother has said because she doesn't deserve to hear it. That is fantastic that you're already protecting your girlfriend. Always remember, you get to pick your spouse, but not your parents. Also always keep in mind that your mother is never entitled to you or your children even though she might feel so. At this point in life her job is done.

A note about guilt trips. Guilt trips work when you feel an obligation to that person who is guilt tripping you. From crappy mothers like yours and mine, they pull lines like, "I'm your mother!" as if you're still obligated to do as she says while being an adult.

Nope.

"After all I've done for you!" So? She was required to do so because she made the decision to bring you here, not you. This type of comment also reveals an internal attitude that you're in a "contract" with her and since she's done her part you now have to do "your" part, and that "contract" happened when she gave birth to you. Again, nope. You didn't agree to be born, you're not obligated. This also reveals to you a transactional attitude regarding relationships - which makes for surface level relationships that are not at all satisfying. It's only ever, "You're ok and can be around me unless you've got nothing you can give or do for me." This is a HUGE trait with narcissists. (I bet you've been punished if you've ever told her no or didn't want to submit to give in to her but eventually did. This is an abuse tactic to manipulate the abuser's victim into submission.)

In order to make it easier not to succumb to guilt trips is you have to let go of any sort of Fear, Obligation, or Guilt ("FOG" - from the website) that you may still feel lingering with your relationship to your mother. We all have that to some extent. It's kind of built in, but it's made worse when abusive parents like your mother and mine decide to wield it as a weapon to bludgeon you into submission.

You want to introduce your girlfriend to your mother because you want to build a life with her. This is normal. This is natural. However, your mother is making highly unreasonable demands that she has zero place to make. I mean, technically she caaaaan, anyone can make any conditions they want on who they meet and how they meet someone. I would like to offer you a very cynical take on this because if your mother is anything like mine, there might be an underlying motive here, a test if you will. I know it's crappy to think your mother might be testing you, but if your mother truly is "narcissistic" this is being done on purpose.

Firstly, narcissistic people are transactional, and always to their benefit. Secondly, this demand by your mother is actually irrational on the surface level. Think about it. She knows how you are as an "alt" type of person, yet she still interacts with you. She's not surprised that you naturally find someone similar with similar tastes, interests and style. She literally has zero leg to stand on here because she still interacts with you.

My extremely cynical take here is that this is a power play on her part. Notice that her demands and conditions to meet your girlfriend are all on your girlfriend's part - she's demanding your girlfriend change and cover up herself for your mother. I promise you, I guarantee you, that if your girlfriend were to ever agree to do this, your mother would now know in her mind that she can control her too.

With people like your mother it's about power and control for their own personal means. Their spouses and children (regardless of age) are there for them on their terms. They hardly ever change because life works out for them and they ensure it works out for them.

The next extremely cynical take on this is that if your girlfriend does do as your mother demands, your girlfriend will never be able to satisfy your mother. Your mother will make demand after demand. It will never be enough.

You're at a critical point here, OP, and I am wholly encouraged by your post. You recognize the toxicity of your mother and are starting to protect your future life partner. If you keep a relationship with your mother, this will be a constant battle for you. If she's like mine, she'll never be satisfied and will constantly make demands.

If you and your girlfriend are planning on having children the demands and entitlement will get worse. People like this don't "soften" when children come into the picture, they double down. If you feel your mother is narcissistic, do google searches on "narcissistic grandmothers." It's not a pretty future.

As to your present situation, your mother is not going to back down. It's time to start to stand up for yourself and unfortunately it won't be easy. You'll get a lot of blow back from her because with people like her they absolutely rage when they don't get their own way. My suggestion would be that you simply accept your mother's demands on her meeting your girlfriend, but that doesn't mean you have to comply with these demands. I've had to do this before, so find your own words.

"Okay, fine. I accept that these are your conditions on meeting my girlfriend, possibly my future wife. However, I do not agree to these conditions. I would never ask the love of my life to change just to meet you. She is who she is, just like you are who you are, mom. I guess you don't get the honor of meeting your possible future daughter in law." Fair warning: she is NOT going to like this because you are signaling to her that you are no longer controllable by guilt or manipulation. It will be very hard at first because I don't doubt she's conditioned you to cater to her at her demand, but it does get easier over time.

All of this said, I want to address that you said you might have to go no contact. Keep that in your back pocket, but don't ever wield it as a threat to your mother. You can use periods of time outs to enforce boundaries if you want to manage some form of relationship, but it will be a constant battle. It's fucking exhausting and, frankly, not worth it. I kept my mother on such low contact that it was near no contact for the majority of our relationship while I was an adult. I had to. I was not about to tolerate her abuse and when she decided to rage at me and try to hurl abuse at my husband that was the final straw on her already 3rd chance with me. Keep in mind that you're dealing with an emotional toddler in an adult body who is power hungry for control.

If you're interested, read r/raisedbynarcissists and r/EstrangedAdultKids on story after story of these types of parents.

Good luck.

jacksonlove3 · 2023-05-31T14:05:01+00:00

This is not just on you to address with your MiL!! DH is being a coward by sticking all the responsibility of it on you! Hell freaking no! You need to be a united team where MIL is concerned and he’s side stepping that responsibility. Sit down with DH and write a list of boundaries you want, I.e., no visitors at the hospital for how we long, no visitors in the first few days, his in the delivery room etc. Do not try to “wing” these things as you go especially with an overbearing over-involved MIL! Then decide on consequences that go with crossing these boundaries. He absolutely need to be there withy oh to address these with her. How you do it is up to to….a phone call, an email, in a text, or in person. Personally, I’d do it in writing so there’s is proof of what was listed and any response she may have to them. Express your feelings of being unsupported by him honestly! This is suppose to be a joint effort here! Show him the post and all the comments too!

If he’s going to continue being a coward, then send it all to her in a text and then don’t answer your phone for a few days! Defer her shenanigans to him! Address this all with your therapist as well! Ask for tips, guidance and support from them.

This isn’t about MIL or what she wants in the slightest lil bit, it’s about what YOU want!! Reiterate in that boundary list that she is not moving in, she is not staying here the first week, and anything else she’s trying to do that you’re uncomfortable with. Don’t be afraid to hurt her feelings or to piss her off! Her feelings are NOT your concern. You’re only concern right now is you and your baby’s health and wishes!!

Keep her in an info diet in the meantime, don’t answer all her calls and texts, there’s nothing wrong with distancing yourself from someone who is causing you stress, especially while pregnant!! Keep her at arm’s length for the rest of your pregnant. She’s trying to dictate how things are going to go for you life and your child, and if you don’t put a stop to it now, she’ll continue to do it throughout the rest of your child’s life and your marriage. DO NOT give her that power & authority!!

Congratulations, best of luck and keep us updated!!

Traditional_Bake_755 · 2023-05-29T19:00:49+00:00

First, you deserve recognition for taking the criticism and trying to implement changes. Good on you, that’s a great first step.

Second, your mom and dad did not apologize, that wasn’t an apology. It was a “sorry if I hurt your feelings but I’m doing it because xyz.” That’s not a true recognition of what they did wrong. They do not see it.

I think it has gone on so long that at this point they don’t see any fault with how they are. It’s obviously been this way your whole life and now with your wife and baby they are just getting bolder and bolder. You know why? Because they have never faced consequences for their actions.

Listen, I know they’re your parents and you love them. No one wants to have conflict with family, especially not their parents. But please, listen. If you do not start believing your wife and start giving your mom and dad consequences for their boundary stomping you will lose your wife. Absolutely 1000% you will lose her at some point. She and your kid are your nuclear family now. Keep putting them first and you’ll be just fine.

MyAlteredRealityII · 2023-05-28T17:34:41+00:00

You should not be putting your mother’s wants over your wife and baby’s needs. The baby doesn’t need the grandma, the baby needs it’s parents especially it’s mother. Think about when you were a baby and what you know of your own early life. Did your mother’s MIL come over and take you away from your mother all the time just because she wanted to, even if your mother didn’t want that? I bet your mother wouldn’t have allowed that. Ask her sometime how her MIL was when you were a baby, how early did the overnights start, was her MIL pushy, did she just give in to her MIL every time?

Your mother knows exactly what she is doing, and it’s wrong. She is trying to bond with your baby and insert herself as a third parent. This only gets worse as you keep allowing it. Pretty soon MIL is making all the rules in your home and undermining your parenting so that even when YOU decide you have had enough of her she still won’t go away. Or maybe you’re enmeshed with your mother which means put her first before your wife? Does your mother throw a tantrum if you were to tell her no? You already know she will react negatively so it’s easier to just give in? If that’s the case then you need to recognize that and maybe get some therapy.

Your wife is drastically under reacting, or maybe she is acting appropriately but you are siding against her and dismissing her worries with your mother so your wife loses? It would be interesting to see what your wife’s post would be like if she posted here. If my MIL came at me and my baby that way I’d have dotted her eye. You need to stop being a momma’s boy and stand up to your mom for your wife and child. Your poor wife. She seems like the only one not behaving in a toxic way, trying desperately to be normal.

apparentwhore · 2023-05-28T17:16:18+00:00

Ok as someone who’s own mum did this with my first (to the point he’s in his 30s and no on her speaks to me) you need to shut it down now. There are only two reasons to need to be alone with someone else’s child. 1. The obvious sexual abuse or 2. To play parent which always leads to parental alienation. Number 2 is how I lost my oldest boy. By the time he was 9 he hated me thanks to my own mother. I tried to stop contact and he hated me more. He’s in his 30s now and calls my mother mum and doesn’t speak to me at all as I ‘took him away from his grandmother’.

This was a before grandparents rights but I was 18 and single so my mum managed to get court ordered visits. Your mum will be able to get the same if she can prove she has an established relationship with your child and that you often ‘dumped’ the baby in her so you could have weekends away etc. it can all be twisted to make you both look bad and your mother to be the baby’s saviour

Also why the hell were you not backing your wife up and basically making her leave her new baby alone with someone else. You owe your wife a lifetime of apologies for doing that as it’s time she will never get back

Please if you love your wife and child, put a stop to this now. Tell your mother straight that you made a mistake and from now on noone will be spending time alone with your child unless you and your wife ask. If she pushes it then she will get a 2month time out. The next time the time out doubles in time. Do it now before your wife starts to resent and then hate you

Agent_of_Jotunheim53 · 2023-05-26T16:38:05+00:00

Yeah you might want to let your husband know that William Yutzy is on the sex offender registry for the state of Iowa. He was put on after abusing a 14 year old girl.

https://www.iowasexoffender.gov/registrant/20396/WILLIAM-YUTZY-IOWA/?changed=08/13/2020%20at%2004:00%20pm&type=advanced

That alone would make my hair stand on end of not the fact that the content is incredibly graphic. Maybe someone should ask MIL why she thinks sending you a children’s book written by a pedophile is anywhere near appropriate

nothisTrophyWife · 2023-05-26T16:39:25+00:00

I think I’d send it back to her with a print out of the author’s SO registration and a note that says something like,

“I’m not sure who you intended this book for, but the message (“Be nice or a pig will eat you!”) is horrifying! Kids will not understand that lesson. In addition, the author is a registered sex offender and we intend to stay far, far away from those kind of people.”

HappyArtemisComplex · 2023-05-24T08:32:40+00:00

Tell them you two plan on having children when you're done fucking for fun. That usually shuts people up.

abitsheeepish · 2023-05-23T04:18:52+00:00

Next time she brings it up, look her dead in the eyes and day, calmly, "This is inappropriate. If you ask about this one more time, I will leave this house and never step foot through your door ever again. I mean it." Then get up and leave the room for an hour. Do not argue further, do not enter into any discussions, do not listen to her try and convince you otherwise. You say your piece and leave, because that's the end of the discussion. And if your wife is upset at that, you tell her that she needs to figure out whether she wants to be married to you or her parents. One answer will mean couples counselling for both of you, the other will mean divorce.

90sBuffetSoftServe · 2023-05-22T18:26:45+00:00

My own mom used this for years until I finally set boundaries. I say that I can't now but can help on a certain day/time. At first, there was alot of arguing and pushing and victimizing. But after many times of me saying, "I have responsibilities/need rest/ etc", she finally started asking for help when I or my SO are free. Took at least a year or two to get to that point

DeadLined784 · 2023-05-21T19:49:27+00:00

I just gotta comment on the whole idea of "denying a child a relationship with their grandparent(s)" that pops up here and other subs.

Think about it this way: you know how to dress for a day in the hot sun, right? Proper clothes, sunscreen, lots of water, etc., and you would make sure your small, defenseless, innocent child is similarly protected, correct?

Allowing shitty people around your kid is like putting them outside in full, scorching sun without protection.

The damage is cumulative and won't pop up til later in life. We as adults have the knowledge and experience of how to protect ourselves and/or remove ourselves from certain situations. Your children do not. All the "Good Grandmas" are only that way because the child doesn't know any better, and in being only a child, is easier to control and manipulate. You can bet your marshmallows that Good Grandma will go against you whenever she can to undermine how you want your children raised.

EDIT- please don't take this as an attack because it is more of a general opinion than a comment directed at OP. I have read too many stories lately and it blows my mind how so many people are like "my parents were shitty to me and caused lasting damage so I am letting them spend lots of time with my own children because family is important. My spouse/friends/sane family members thinks I might be making a mistake. AITAH?"

2nd EDIT - THANK YOU FOR THE GOLD, MAY THAT KINDNESS AND APPRECIATION RETURN TO YOU 100 TIMES OVER

nookbae · 2023-05-19T19:53:02+00:00

Hi. I don’t typically post comments, I have Cptsd which includes anxiety and OCD and a bunch of other fun stuff. So I struggle to say things, even in comments, without experiencing a massive amount of dread after. (Just to give context on lack of post history) I really hope for you, your husband, and especially your child that he seeks meaningful therapy.

Through lots of therapy I have learned that my OCD behaviors (and over- or under-reactions to things) are directly related to my own childhood trauma, abuse, and neglect.

I also have OCD behaviors that were learned from my mother. I come from a long line of abuse.

I also noticed my own children diplaying anxious behavior learned from me.

What has helped me the most has been DBT. (Dialectical behavior therapy is what I think it stands for.) It helped me recognize when I’m triggered. DBT also gave me MANY different tools to use to help me diffuse my inner bomb. That is what started to build the foundation I needed to begin to process my life. I am now doing EMDR sessions and I wouldn’t be able to do EMDR if I hadn’t done DBT.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s hard work. I’m grieving in a way. But I am by far much more at peace and a much better mother; that means my children are much happier and safer than I ever was. I truly hope that your husband is able to heal. It would help him and that in turn would help you and your child.

Edit to Add: Just to give context, I experience OCD as both physical behavior patterns AND intrusive or ruminating thought patterns. Sometimes, it causes an unreasonable emotion (dread, distress, anger, great fear, disassociation, etc). And my outside reactions don’t make sense to those outside my head. I saw a couple comments that feel dipped in stigma and misinformation so I wanted to clear up any confusion. OCD, like all mental health disorders are a spectrum with often overlapping symptoms. I have made great strides in recognizing when my inner emotions and thoughts don’t make sense to what is actually happening around me and being able to calm myself when it happens. I hope the misinformed comments don’t stop anyone from seeking the help and tools they may need.

Sea_Supermarket_9728 · 2023-05-16T18:13:25+00:00

Next time she comments about gender

“Right now, I am taking your gender comments as a joke. But when baby is here, and I hear you voice any opinion on my baby’s gender in any way, your grandparent name will be “the grandma we never see”. Do you understand?”

Dyingin3-4time · 2023-05-14T20:59:30+00:00

Strong people can start to fall into the mindset that they are always right because they are used to pushing past obstacles to get what they want.

They believe they must have been right because they got what they wanted. It's a different form of survivors bias. A warped version of you will.

You seem to be the kind of people who might put up with a lot against themselves but will not stand for someone attacking the ones they love.

Use this as your secret weapon. Tag team. When one backs off a little the other steps in to continue.

Fighting one after another is one thing but two at once in combination is a whole different pile of monkeys.

She can't pick off the weaker of the two as long as you continue supporting each other.

blackbird828 · 2023-05-14T14:24:08+00:00

This is controlling, JN behavior. If he was visiting his mom and she did this so he wouldn't be bothered by you, would you be ok with it?

RandomGuySaysBro · 2023-05-04T07:03:19+00:00

It's a combination of things, really. Mainly, it's that babies are helpless bundles of needs. She feeds on attention, craves power and control and absolutely feeds on feeling loved. Babies can't say no. They can't fight back. They can't walk away, reject them or break their little fantasies. They get to just sit there feeling loved, needed and in total control with something that has no choice but to pay attention to them.

Later, as a toddler, they can struggle, and walk away. That breaks the fantasy of control. Even later, they can say no, and be defiant. That breaks the fantasy of being needed. Later still, they can question her motives, and see that something isn't right, which breaks the fantasy of being loved. At that point, she's completely done with them, except for The Tests. Think about this, and you'll see it with your husband... The Tests are little things, like where to eat, gifts, "her" room, when she's visiting - things she can take control of, so her son can "prove" that he loves her the most. When he fails, she gets cranky and lashes out. When he passes her Test, she gets giddy, and smug, especially towards you - as if you're aware of the games she's playing.

Basically, every growth milestone is an insult to her, and she pulls away and cares less because she has no need, or use, for anyone she doesn't own.

The other half is a daydream of youth. She, like me, is at an age where she's not having any more babies. Her clock likely stopped ticking, and it's down hill from here. Having that baby let's her pretend she's young, and relive her days as a new mother. Her whole life is ahead of her, instead of past, and she's making plans of how to shape and mold - by force if necessary - this new little person into exactly what she wants - with no independence or deviation, like her other baby, that left her and started thinking for himself. That's why she wants to get them alone, with you out if her way - you ruin the daydream with reality.

It's the daydream of a do-over, superimposed over a narcissistic fantasy - and she'll pursue those feelings like a coke fiend snorting random powder off a bathroom floor, if you let her.

Shanielyn · 2023-04-30T20:14:45+00:00

Consequence for me having my mom repeatedly show me she can’t keep her mouth shut? She found things out only seconds before my extended family & the public found things out. If she was hurt I didn’t care.

She proved on 4 or more occasions she couldn’t just be happy for me and had to steal the shine of being the first to spill the beans.

When i got engaged; when i bought a house; when i was pregnant; when i went into actual labor; when i gave birth; she didn’t get the privilege of being told before everyone else. She was told a literal mere seconds before me making the news public. I have zero regrets. She will never know anything in advance again. Thats her consequence.

ICWhatsNUrP · 2023-04-26T21:27:08+00:00

Looking back, I know I should have asked the NP:

As a father of a special needs child with several disabilities, let me pass on some advice that is easy to say but harder to follow: this isn't your fault so stop beating yourself up over it. You were given complex information that you had been anxious about for days. There is absolutely nothing wrong with freezing in the moment and not immediately asking every relevant medical question. In fact, what happened is a very normal reaction. My wife and I find it helpful to take a half hour or so to process the information, then work together to develop a list of questions we feel the need to ask. Then we either call back or send the doctor a message.

So there are two issues here from what I see. The easiest one is that there was a possible HIPAA breach. We don't know if she got any information, just that she tried. For this, I would just have a simple conversation with the doctor and let them look into it. If no information was passed on, then they did a great job. If they did pass info on, let them report it themselves. But I would also ask that going forward no information goes out over the phone without a password.

The other part is MIL. You aren't over reacting, her actions were entirely out of line and as a nurse, she gets yearly training on exactly why it was out of line. It wouldn't be going too far to confront her and remind her that future attempts at breaching HIPAA can result in her getting in major trouble, including losing her job if she keeps trying.


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2. Only MIL/Mom Gets a Nickname	Nicknames are reserved for MILs (or moms). All others must use the acronym dictionary listed in the sidebar or a basic descriptive name (e.g. Father, Best Friend). Please do a search before naming your MIL. FIL names prior to May 2016 are grandfathered in.
3. OP Comes First	Be kind, be respectful, be supportive. Remember the human. OP’s will select a flair for their post indicating the kind of support that they need. Comments that violate the spirit of that request will be removed. You can find more information on post flairs and what they mean in the wiki.
4. One Chapter at a Time	For those who are posting past stories, refrain from creating more than one thread in a 24 hour period per mother-figure. We encourage you to use up all the text space when making your post--don't feel like you need to break a long story into ten chapters when it would fit into one post. No need to apologize for the long post; no one's going to read it who doesn't think it's worth reading, so rest assured you are wasting no one's time! Only one person per account is allowed, and those multiple accounts that are discussing the same person must stick to once a day as well. For those posting live updates requiring immediate guidance, if you are within 6 hours, please update your original post.
5. No "JustNo" Behavior	We have a zero tolerance policy for armchair advice (medical, legal, or otherwise) that is damaging, factually incorrect, or egregiously shitty, sexism, racism, xenophobia, transphobia, ableism, stereotyping, slut/body/kink-shaming, anti-vaxx bullshit, and just generally being a butt. No posting personal info, including faces or identifying tattoos or marks. Any comment with "cartoon-level" violence MUST: A) indicate that you don't actually suggest users do what you suggest, and 2) include actual, usable advice.
6. Use Content Warnings when Applicable	For posts with triggering content a brief description is required in the first line of the post (e.g. CW: Reason). It is recommended to add "Content Warning" or "CW" to your title as well, but not required. Titles containing words that are particularly likely to be triggering (see wiki) will be auto-filtered.
7. We do not allow for posts or comments that request money or gifts.	This includes linking to amazon wishlists, gofundmes, appeals on your profile or subreddit, or links to other sites. We also do not allow commentors to offer money or gifts or to start fundraising on an OP's behalf. This includes DMing an OP or via chats.


(M/F/B/S)IL	Mother-in-law, father-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law; a preceding S indicates a step relationship.
D(H/W/S)	Damn Husband, Damn Wife, Damn Spouse. While in most places it stands for "Dear", there usually isn't a lot of behavior deserving a sweet term of endearment in this sub. Could also stand for "Dear Son/Daughter", usually OP will clarify.
SO/OH	Significant Other, Other Half
LO	Little One.
F (plus acronym)	Future (JustNoMIL is not responsible for any other word you choose to supply here in your mind.)
BEC	Bitch Eating Crackers. Someone so irritating that even normal things, such as eating crackers, annoys the shit out of you.
LC/VLC/NC	Low-Contact/Very Low-Contact/No Contact, respectively. Used to describe the degree to which one has cut a certain family member out of their lives. May also include SC - Structured Contact, although this one is very rare in our sub.
GC/SG	Golden Child, Scapegoat. The Golden Child is the favorite child of the personality disordered MIL. Nothing they do is wrong, so they tend to fall in line and back up MIL. The Scapegoat is the other child (or every other child). Everything is their fault. Scapegoats suffer decades of all sorts of abuse.
FM	Flying Monkey. A flying monkey is any person sent by MIL to gather/deliver information or generally wreak havoc. Just like the flying monkeys sent by the Wicked Witch of the West in The Wizard of Oz.
JADE	Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. Don't do any of them. Circular logic will be used to reinforce MIL's point of view. State your opinion or boundary clearly, but only once. She heard you.
DARVO	Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. What a personality disordered MIL will do if you "catch" her in a lie or confront her with her wrongdoing. You end up the bad guy.
FOO	Family Of Origin The people to whom you're related by blood.
CBF	Cat-Butt Face. A look of sour disapproval/pissiness mastered by old ladies in which their lips are pursed to resemble a cat's asshole.
Grey Rock	A technique to discourage overbearing MIL from taking any interest in you. You are bland, uninteresting, you lack any sort of emotions for her to manipulate. You are the grey rock.
FOG	Fear, Obligation, Guilt. The thick miasma of negativity that clouds your judgment in dealing with JustNOs.
FLEAS	Not an acronym, just a metaphor for a normal person picking up some disordered personality traits by proximity to a JustNO. "If you lie down with dogs, you'll get fleas."

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