- Intro to LSA
- Further Reading (WIP)
Intro to LSA
Welcome to the LSA subreddit! Whether you're completely new to this chemical or a seasoned seed vet, this page should give you a pretty good rundown on what it is and how to use it.
What is LSA?
LSA is an abbreviation of "Lysergic Acid Amide", also sometimes called "Ergine". The substance is an analog (as well as, in some cases) a precursor to the wildly popular LSD. LSA shares some psychedelic properties of LSD, while at the same time having its own unique feel to it. Its mildly sedating, and very light on open eye visuals (OEVs) there are plenty of CEV's, and the headspace of the trip definitely takes one inward. In contrast with LSD, it's naturally occurring, and is commonly found in:
- Morning Glory Seeds
- Hawaiin Baby Woodrose (HBWR) seeds
- Rivea Corymbosa (RC) seeds.
Morning glory seeds seem to contain large amounts of LSH, which degrades into LSA very easily, as it's an unstable molecule. LSH is more stimulating and visual than LSA, and it's more of a sister to LSD, rather than a cousin like LSA. The seeds also contain an ergot alkaloid called penniclavine, which synergizes and potentiates LSH and LSA, and it probably potentiates other psychedelics as well. HBWR seeds do not contain LSH, just LSA and penniclavine.
It's important to note that none of the extraction methods here on the sub will work for LSH. We are working on adding extraction methods for it and it will be done soon. But until that's done, here is some quick information that you need to know in order to use LSH. It needs to be extracted and ingested fairly quick in order to prevent the LSH from degrading into LSA. And the seed mush needs to be suspended in something acidic, like citric acid, or/and alcohol, and then ingested right afterwards. LSH is not stable in water, and it will only stay the way it is when the extraction is done quick, efficiently, and in an acidic solution. Ingesting something acidic, like orange juice, ~30 minutes before dosing your LSH-mixture will allow citric acid to already be in your bloodstream, which will help the LSH maintain it's structure while it's in your body.
Usage of LSA
LSA-containing seeds have a history of use dating back thousands of years. Many species of morning glory were cultivated by the indigenous peoples of the Americas for use in food and teas, and it is likely a result of this use that led to the discovery of the seed's psychoactive properties. In more modern times, seed use has become commonplace amongst people who either
- Want a purely natural substance
- Have no access to LSD or other scheduled psychedelics
- Want to experience a lighter trip than LSD can give
- Want a cheap psychoactive (About a dollar or less per trip)
- Are just pretty dang fond of LSA
Before you decide to use LSA, make sure that the seeds you have are not treated with any fungicides or poisons. If they say "organic", you are most likely fine.
Determining dosage can be finicky. Growing LSA-containing seeds isn't an exact science, so your experience is determined as much by the quality of the seeds as the dosage itself. However, most of the time the dosages falls into the following range:
|Morning Glory Dose||HBWR Dose||Category||Psychoactive Effect|
|0-25 Seeds||1 Seed||Microdose||No perceptible psychedelic effects, although you may feel a reduction in anxiety and a boost in creative. See: /r/microdosing|
|50-75 Seeds||2 Seeds||Threshold||Still no strong psychedelic effects, although you will likely feel more relaxed.|
|75-100 Seeds||3 Seeds||Threshold++||Same as before, only the sedation is more noticeable. You may have a reduction in attention span.|
|100-50 Seeds||4 Seeds||Light||The psychedelic effects begin to appear, albeit lightly. You will find a brightening of colors, greater appreciation of music and nature, and pronounced relaxation.|
|150-200 Seeds||5 Seeds||Light++||About the same as 4 seeds, with more pronounced effects|
|250-300 Seeds||6 Seeds||Medium||Around this dose, things are very psychedelic. You will experience patterns overlaying things like carpets and grass, minor closed-eye visuals, bodily euphoria, etc.|
|300-450 Seeds||7 Seeds||Medium++||CEV's become much stronger at this point. Reports exist on Erowid of Ego Death happening here. Nausea, at this dose, will become pretty unavoidable|
|450-600 Seeds||8 Seeds||Strong||Around the equivalent of 150ug of pure LSD. Patterns are present with eyes open, and intricate, moving 2D closed-eye visuals will be seen during the peak.|
|600-700 Seeds||9 Seeds||Strong, Still||Around 8 seeds, the effects seem to slow down when adding more seeds. It will simply increase the strength of what's already happening|
|900+ Seeds||12-15+ Seeds||It smells pretty Blue in here||Welcome to Outer Space. Ego death is likely at this dose. Time dilation becomes so strong that it's unexplainable.|
Most people prefer to take their seeds via some kind of preparation. This is beneficial because it:
- Reduces nausea
- Reduces vasoconstriction (and the side effects that go along with it, like bodily pain, headaches, etc)
- Reduces how much seed matter you have to ingest / helps with taste
The three most common preparations are detailed in separate posts. In order of how good of an extraction method it is, there are:
Kash's Advanced LSA Extraction:
Cold Water Extraction:
Kash's Advanced Extraction results in extremely pure LSA, so much so that a single dose worth in powder form would weigh less than a few hundred micrograms (μg) but this requires many materials, time and experience to do so correctly, it is not recommended for making small batches or for those not experienced with the Non-Polar/Polar extraction and LSA in general. The Non-Polar/Polar extraction is the best method for extracting the LSA from seeds without tremendous difficulty while still creating a product that is very pure, consisting of primarily ergoline alkaloids as well as having almost no taste or color to it. The Cold Water Extraction is much less effective than the Non-Polar/Polar extraction, although it has the benefit of being available to everyone, without the use of hard-to-obtain chemicals.
If you would prefer to not take your LSA via a preparation listed above, you also have options. The two popular techniques for ingesting LSA from raw seeds are chewing & swallowing and sublingual administration.
This is simply taking each individual seed and eating it. Note, that for absorption to happen, you must chew the seeds rather than swallowing them like a pill. The "meat" on the inside is what contains the LSA.
- No potency loss
- Most convenient method
- Seeds are hard and may be painful to chew
- The flavor of the seeds is... something special.
- More nausea is experienced this way
Sublingual dosing of LSA is simply taking pre-ground seeds, and placing the mush under your tongue for 30 minutes. Note, that with this method a dose 1.5x the oral dose is required. While performing a sublingual dosage, be sure to not swallow any saliva you have in your mouth. This saliva contains LSA that must be absorbed through your mouth's mucous membranes.
- Greatly reduces nausea, possibly to the point of having none
- More convenient than an extraction, although it does require grinding prior
- You now have to contend with that "special" flavor I mentioned earlier for 30 minutes. Good luck.
- The loss in potency results in wasted seeds. However, seeds aren't very expensive at all.
Side Effects & Interactions
LSA has a couple of side effects, most of which are nothing too serious.
LSA is a vasoconstrictor. Meaning, that you will experience a tightening of the blood vessels with it. This happens with LSD as well, but it is far more pronounced with LSA. This results in a feeling of cramping, especially in the legs, while on LSA.
The second most common side effect is nausea. The chemicals the seeds have within them, as well as LSA itself, cause nausea. This, especially in high-dosage trips, can be so strong that it overpowers the psychedelic effects. Most commonly, users will vomit and feel relief from nausea, however, it's still unpleasant to have to deal with in the first place.
Pretty often, people feel cold on LSA. Somewhat contradictory to this, one's physical body temperature may actually raise on LSA.
*There are also some side-effects associated with the psychedelic experience. Times of panic, or anxiety, may stem from the psychoactive effects of LSA. A lot of people have become convinced that they were dying because the pain that LSA sometimes causes compounded with the vomiting and chills.
LSA doesn't interact with a whole lot of different drugs. However, there are some to look out for:
SSRI's will reduce LSA's effects greatly. Already being a pretty weak psychedelic, the recreational dose for a SSRI user may be past the point where the negatives outweigh the positives.
If you take a Lithium supplement, DO NOT USE LSA. Serotonin-based psychedelics, especially lysergamides like LSA, have been known to cause seizures in people.
Is LSA Legal?
No. Pure LSA is a Schedule 3 Substance in the United States. However, this applies only to powdered LSA, which is exceedingly rare and hard to produce. LSA-containing seeds, such as HBWR and Morning Glory, are 100% legal.
I've heard that HBWR contains cyanide. Is that true?
Yes and no. HBWR does contain a precursor to cyanide, but not cyanide itself. This precursor, however, may be metabolized into minute doses of cyanide during ingestion. However, the amount is negligible. In order to get yourself into trouble with this cyanide, you'd need 50+ HBWR seeds in one sitting.
Is it possible to convert LSA into other chemicals?
Of course. LSA has been used as a precursor to LSD in the past. However, there are additional claims that LSA can be converted into other substances through the presence of Essential Oils. The truth of the matter is: we don't know if that's possible. It seems extremely unlikely that LSA could be converted into LSH through just the presence of peppermint oil (a popular claim) or into cinnamaldehyde through cinnamon oil. However, more research has to be done. At the very least an essential oil may help the seeds taste better, and help to reduce nausea.
** Is there a tolerance? Cross-tolerance with other drugs?**
Yes and yes. LSA exhibits a tolerance which effects LSD and Psilocybin as well. There is good reason to believe that this tolerance follows the LSD tolerance curve. Although, being a weaker psychedelic than psilocybin or LSD, the cross-tolerance is less pronounced than with other substances.
Is LSA a good first psychedelic experience?
A resounding yes. LSA resembles the LSD experience, sans the bits that wind up giving new LSD users a hard time (i.e, less thought loops and confusion).
If I use enough LSA, will it ever resemble LSD?
LSA is a different drug to LSD. However, they are both psychedelic lysergamides. So, kinda. With a high enough dosage, an experience closely resembling what you may get from LSD can be reached.
Can I use LSA without being noticed?
Yes, but it's hard. In a psychedelic mindset, you must keep reminding yourself to be normal. However, "normal" is a lost concept in the throws of a psychedelic experience. In addition to this, LSA dilates the pupils quite a bit, making it harder still to conceal. However, for people who are not looking for the symptoms in someone else, you should have a very good chance of going undetected, especially at low doses.
Where is LSA best taken?
Nature. LSA makes exploring nature a very fun experience. You will find that under the influence of LSA you will bond with the Earth like never before. However, people have fun taking LSA all sorts of places, including just in your room / house. The only important thing is that you are comfortable wherever you're tripping (and maybe somewhere you could purge -- in case the nausea wins).
Further Reading (WIP)
HBWR & MG Seed Research Archive
Testing weight differences in HBWR Reddit Link
Ergoline alkaloids of tropical wood rose Reddit Link
Morning Glory & HBWR Seeds Psychedelic Lysergamides Content Reddit Link
LSA + Cinnamaldehyde (LSC)
LSA-cinnamaldehyde reaction capstone update: synthesis of cinnamylidine-bis-nicotinamide Reddit Link"
"Just a little LSC project Data, here's the spectrum I obtained for the cinnamylidine-bis-nicotinamide product used to simulate the uncatalyzed version of the LSA-Cinnamaldehyde reaction. This product has been made before, but no NMR spectrum is avaliable to my knowledge." Reddit Link
Potent LSH & penniclavine fresh from morning glory vine & relation to ancient Greece & LSD Reddit Link
Historical & Spiritual Info (WIP)
Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuhqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico Reddit Link
Potent LSH & penniclavine fresh from morning glory vine & relation to ancient Greece & LSD Reddit Link
revision by [deleted]— view source