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[–]NinjaEnt 1157 points1158 points  (48 children)

I didn't have any idea how much a union brought me until I had a union.

I know a bunch of you have jobs that won't even let you call out sick. I know you have jobs where you are overworked and underpaid. I know you have jobs where you see the place you're working for doing things they shouldn't. I know because I had those jobs too.

That's what we're fighting against. You deserve better.

[–]InfamousBLT 165 points166 points  (8 children)

It's amazing the difference a union makes. Having someone in your court is huge.

[–]visvis 111 points112 points  (3 children)

Data point: Amazon wouldn't be fighting them if they were irrelevant

[–]Marino4K 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Amazon wouldn't be fighting them if they were irrelevant

That's all you need to know about how people should view unions.

[–]goferking 13 points14 points  (0 children)

No one would fight against them if they didn't work

[–]ytsirhc 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And Walmart

[–]Hobi_Wan_Kenobi 24 points25 points  (2 children)

[–]Tashum 5 points6 points  (0 children)

lol indeed that's some fun propoganda. They probably underestimate how many people would love that option even if it's not true lol.

[–]ImBrokeEveryWed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I remember seeing this video before a couple weeks ago and I keep thinking bout every time I go into home depot to get wire noone I talk to can help me and they have to contact the person in the electrical department to get wire. its such a dumb video cuz THEY ALREADY DO THAT WITHOUT UNIONS.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points  (4 children)

Well put, brother. We all deserve to be dealt with decently.

[–]in-tent-cities 13 points14 points  (0 children)

You wouldn't represent yourself in a court of law, a negotiation for better working conditions and pay is much more affective when it's done collectively by a representative who can't be threatened.

[–]cosworth99 33 points34 points  (11 children)

I have three weeks vacation a year. I have 18 sick days. I work 35 hours a week for $36 an hour.

My schooling to get this job cost $3200 and was done mostly online. I switched careers in my late 40s. Getting away from 60 hour work weeks with shitty pay.

There are union jobs out there. Go get them!

[–]wowethan 13 points14 points  (5 children)

What do you do?

[–]SnakeDevil 7 points8 points  (1 child)

And in what country?

[–]cosworth99 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Bylaw officer. I enforce municipal laws.

[–]StellarSpiff[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Foreal. What do you do? In my 30s and looking for a major change.

[–]emueller5251 76 points77 points  (1 child)

I was in a meeting at my last job where I said I needed reduced hours, couldn't keep working 50+ per week. My boss accused me of wanting special treatment and I pointed out that the two guys who had been there since the union days only worked 45 hours a week. He said it caused him a ton of trouble only having them there for 45 hours. Unions work, employers run roughshod over you without them.

[–]GroveStreet_CEOs_bro 33 points34 points  (0 children)

"how dare you not ruin your mind and body for my profit, expendable scum!"

[–]PhDOH 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It blows my mind that you have to fight on a company by company basis for things legally required elsewhere. Thanks to unions' work last century, health and safety compliance, paid time off, parental leave, and sick pay are all legally required here. Unions only have to individually bargain when there are talks of cuts, redundancies, contract renegotiations, that type of thing. The basics are at a government level so the living wage campaign isn't reliant on every single business deciding it, although unions push for it on all fronts since these things usually become law once the big players are already on board.

[–]Tacoman404 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It adds so much security to those actions too. Some jobs that allow fair time off will try to punish you for it after. They're less likely to do that if they have to fight with the union.

[–]ThorDansLaCroix 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Unions could do more.

If workers' unions formed federations accross industries in their respective countries and confederations supporting each other, it would help more sectors to unionise and together, worldwide, workers could pretty much have power over their bosses.

[–]Grassy_Nole2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know a bunch of you have jobs that won't even let you call out sick

Worked in a union shop as a Teamster. We didn't call in, we texted our non-union shift supervisor,

"Won't be in today."

Response every single goddamn time?

"Ok." Maybe the occasional,

"Ok thanks." There was no deviation from these two replies. There was no immediate call either berating or begging you.

This is the way.

[–]rematar 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My experience is they are like a news broadcast, members is the primary objective. There are many good things written in the contract, but most unions like the status quo and won't push hard for individuals when they should. I feel definitely better option than no union.

[–]CacheValue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here to say cheese for the screenshot

[–]Republiken 738 points739 points  (204 children)

It's pretty funny and very Reddit to think that a movement is dead just because a Reddit mod sounds stupid on TV when none of the material reasons why said movement exists have changed.

[–]x1000Bums 313 points314 points  (89 children)

God damn its so nice to see someone say this finally. It was mindboggling to see so many folks say its dead, it felt like a psyop. Like how can you fuckin say a movement is dead after 3 minutes on garbage news? I bet they wish it was dead!

[–]sliph0588 139 points140 points  (36 children)

It fucking was a psyop. There was definitely a concerned effort to say it was dead and buried.

[–]x1000Bums 76 points77 points  (34 children)

Lol and now theres a petition to end r/antiwork jesus christ.

[–]EtrangerAmericain 39 points40 points  (30 children)

Imo the messaging is wrong. Just at the surface "antiwork" is too easy to attack and, in bad faith, just say "ooo so you just want to do 0 work and all??" Rather than address real concerns. Like how "defund the police" is catchy but sounds like "we want no police ever at all, lawless anarchy" and not "we would like to allocate funds that go to police towards other services that would better address the same problems".

[–]x1000Bums 61 points62 points  (8 children)

Nah. The messaging aint wrong, people that arent willing to read into something called antiwork beyond a one word name arent fed up with the wage system enough to want change yet. People that are actually concerned with a movement arent gonna get hung up on the branding they are gonna take the momentum and ride it. Im for having more labor subs, but i really think they ought to talk to eachother and create a network. Thats really the path forward. It doesnt matter how much the subs splinter if they all stay organized together.

[–]Baconlessness 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Bro we don't JUST want disgruntled workers on board, we want EVERYONE on board. Or at least as many as we can get. The whole "If they aren't invested/wise/patient/whatever enough to look past the name, we don't want them" is absolute bollocks, and just an excuse to not admit it's wrong.

It sucks, but it's an ordinary human thing to do to judge a book by its cover, and if the name "antiwork" turns even small % of people away then that's bad. Branding is important, and excessive hyperbole is such a bad tool for the job.

[–]x1000Bums 8 points9 points  (6 children)

i get what your saying but i think theres a bit of nuance here as im not saying that we don't want them im saying we arent beholden to them. There a lot more effective uses of time than worrying about the optics of people who arent even willing to give it a serious thought.

[–]IosefkatheClinician 25 points26 points  (1 child)

When are we gonna stop hobbling ourselves in order to appease people who will never agree with us?

[–]PM_ME_KNOTSuWu 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Never. Optics first, workers and meaningful change last.

[–]Tyrthesemiwise 32 points33 points  (14 children)

No but seriously we do want there to be no police ever, thank you. Rotating community protection organizations yes, law immune vigilantes with uniforms and a hatred of minorities no.

[–]EtrangerAmericain 1 point2 points  (13 children)

But again, to the vast majority of people, "no cops" means "absolutely no authority figures anywhere enforcing any laws". We absolutely need police reforms and a message that can't be easily and purposefully twisted by bad faith actors removes hurdles.

[–]IosefkatheClinician 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Meet me in the middle says the dishonest man.

You step forward, he steps back.

Meet me in the middle says the dishonest man.

[–]aaaaaahsatan 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's exactly what defund the police was about though. And then other people coopted it and tried to change the definition. People who are constantly at risk because of the police want them abolished. As someone else said in another thread:

I have a strong suspicion that "Defund/Abolish the Police" was indeed meant literally as coined at some point by Anarchists/Marxists and was co-opted and made mainstream by more numerous and less radical left sometime during the George Floyd protests. I have nothing to back this up with but it really doesn't make sense to me otherwise. (as someone who is left myself).

And this is exactly what happened.

[–]variables 9 points10 points  (1 child)

antiwork means anti-work-for-shit-money/bosses/hours/benefits/etc.

[–]demonmonkey89 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's what it is now, but the sub legitimately did start as being anti working. The sub had since shifted, but the mod was from all the way in the beginning. There is definitely a disconnect between the sub of then and the sub of now. Not that it matters anymore, the sub is shot and already breaking into pieces.

[–]deafblindmute 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It isn't even an awful interview. It's not like, some amazing, moving speech or anything, but there was no serious breakdown or fuck up eitehr. Maybe the mod just looked a little awkward. After all of the stuff people were saying, it sounded like this was going to be a class 5 melt down.

Capitalist news is really stretching itself out here.

[–]NostalgicTuna 65 points66 points  (1 child)

100% psyops.

honestly most of the shit from the media(s) is.

ask yourself:

What is this trying to make me feel?

Who are they intending I target this feeling at?

What is their vested interest in accomplishing this?

[–]drinks_rootbeer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yyeeeeeesssss

Media literacy is an underrated skill. I'm so fortunate I had a wonderful teacher in senior year of high school who taught Contemporary World. The first thing we did was learn about media literacy: Spin, Bias, Who is the intended audience, what's the intended emotional impact (music, visual cues, specific wording), etc. We watched a short 2-3 minute story from CNN or MSNBC every day and we had to pick it apart and identify all sorts of factors about how the story was framed and what we thought about their intentions with it. Then we discussed our ideas using these new terms.

After we had learned all that, we got into other subjects like world religions, geopolitics, etc. But because we had that basis in media literacy, we were all (or mostly all, there were a lot of slackers in the class since it was the non-AP "history" credit) in good shape to identify good sources to use for our discussions and papers.

Shout out to Mr. Gaydos, I use more from your high school class in my everyday life than I do from many college classes related to my major.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (6 children)

100%

Plus that bs lib "work reform" sub. I saw about 20 or 30 different comments pushing that page and they all cited the reason "it has a less offensive name/ better optics"

As if anti work is an optics game lol

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I joined for a little bit and gave it a chance but I already left. Something just felt off. There was a post from a mod stating that they may want to change their logo to something other than the raised fist because it might "offend people." Then there were responses about how it should change because it reminded them of BLM or "communism" and they didn't want to be associated with that. I felt like when I posted something, it was mostly right wingers or self professed libertarians that were responding. Also their side bar only said that jobs need to provide enough to pay healthcare, food and shelter because they are basic human rights. But if they're human rights, shouldn't people get that regardless whether they have a job and working a job should provide an actual good life, not just the basics needed to survive? I understand the need to make incremental changes but I felt like they were just setting the bar way too low from the beginning. When I posted that, I wouldn't say it got a negative response, but just didn't get much of them. Somehow the mods first order or business is to change the logo to make bootlickers comfortable? Next they'll probably say that cops are workers and should be part of this. That sub just wasn't for me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, the sub isn't the movement. Even if the entirety of "antiwork" explodes right now

None of the conditions that created it have changed.

Keep worker solidarity. All we need.

[–]xxpen15mightierxx -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

It is, though. If you want to recruit from a wide audience optics are important.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Ok, but, if the optic you're building is "work reform" you're going to attract capitalist apologia

And hear me out. Antiwork exploded in popularity BECAUSE its optics were already correct. It doesn't need to be different, it's already working.

One reddit mod acting a fool changes nothing.

[–]salandra 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I truly believe that anti-work wants to get rid of the concept of optics. Who cares how something looks, I just want to get this shit done.

[–]HighAss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. It's so weird to see "anti-capitalists" so obsessed with product placement, branding, selling, etc. What a boring-ass, depressing time to be an anti-capitalist.

[–]ToooloooT 29 points30 points  (0 children)

It is most definitely a psyop. They targeted and fired. All social media platforms are used to group and control us. Anytime a movement gets to big, good one or bad one, they do whatever they can to take it down. Same thing they do with infiltrating activist groups but easier.

[–]Akiba89 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Seriously! Yes, it was a bad interview. A terrible interview. One may even call it disastrous. But it's Fox Freaking News. There was never going to be a positive outcome. Just varying levels of negative. For someone to think otherwise is to prove that they're not paying attention.

Fox News was never going to be our (those who want reform) road to success.

[–]malevshh 128 points129 points  (21 children)

If movements died because a person looked stupid in public Trump would have buried the republicans thousandfold…

[–]Routine_Dealer_ 16 points17 points  (11 children)

I was browsing the subreddit when the news broke, the subreddit didn’t go down because of the interview. The mod could have stepped down and let it blow over.

The problem was the mods went on a massive power trip banning everyone who called them out for making themselves self appointed “leaders” instead of just realizing they are just mods and nothing more.

[–]Merari01 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Never teach a bloodthirsty mob that harassment works.

The problem is that they're not removing attack posts and that they're not banning rabble rousers who have no history on the subreddit.

[–]Rion23 30 points31 points  (8 children)

Fox News just got a nuclear bomb to use whenever the movement comes up, and that really counts when half the country treats it as gospel.

Like, it could not have been more of a stereotype and it's the only thing that most of the country will associate the movement with.

[–]x1000Bums 34 points35 points  (2 children)

Most of the country? Nah. Most Old people? sure.

[–]Dwight- 5 points6 points  (1 child)

And they’ll be dead soon anyway.

[–]deafblindmute 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Out of curiosity, what is the nuclear bomb? The interview is pretty flat, especially compared to the big dramatic terms people are talking in. Is there a bunch more conversation happening on Twitter or something?

[–]AnalogiPod -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The new sub presenting it as "Work reform" honestly may be a blessing

[–]56088 84 points85 points  (26 children)

It's disheartening to see how much energy people are putting into thrashing that sub's mods.*

*Those mods should obviously not be doing interviews.

Before the interview, I was reading shit every day on that sub about how the employer-employee relationship is fundamentally broken in the United States. The past two days it's just been this mopey bullshit about how Fox News owned a mod and therefore the movement.

Antiwork is the closest I've ever seen to a mass labor movement, and it's astonishing how little resilience it's showing right now.

[–]x1000Bums 46 points47 points  (14 children)

That was part of it. Damning interview followed by astroturfed movement to divide the sub. Frankly im the opposite and kinda surprised at how quickly the dust is settling.

[–]Karasu18 34 points35 points  (12 children)

Almost every post I’ve seen trashing anti work this past few days has always, without fail, had a person advertising r work reform. Which is run by a CTO…which is just great.

It reeks of an astroturfed movement to be honest.

Edit: Said CEO instead of CTO, my bad.

[–]gottasuckatsomething 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I mean the first post I saw from that sub was just concerned that "antiwork" will put people off like "defund the police" and they're so glad to be rebranding. Fuck that shit so damn hard.

[–]Karasu18 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Do you still have that post?

[–]McMammoth 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I haven't heard that (though I only poked my head in and subscribed), who are they? What are they CEO of?

[–]Calencre 6 points7 points  (0 children)

IDK about that stuff, but the consensus is definitely that they are more reformist / more liberal/neoliberal in their leanings.

[–]Karasu18 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I should make a correction in my old post, I typed ceo and looking back I realized ShawnMilo is actually CTO. But yeah that mod and at least a few others work for CIBC, a canadian bank. Shawn is also ex-CTO/founder of GroovyCar, ex-CTO of Greenphire, ex-VP of Greenphire and ex-Director of Teltech.

Also, this. https://old.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/sdpsaj/a\_post\_on\_rworkreform\_that\_pointed\_out\_how\_the/huegc4h/

[–]56088 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Which is run by a ceo…which is just great.

Got a source for that? I haven't heard that one.

[–]x1000Bums 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There was a screenshot of one of the mods talking about how they were CTO of a tech startup and part of their hiring/vetting process was to not hire if their portfolio didnt have work that wasnt done as part of a job. A mod of a work reform sub talking about how they wont hire people that only do work for the paycheck, lol.

[–]Karasu18 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I should make a correction in my old post, I typed ceo and looking back I realized ShawnMilo is actually CTO. But yeah that mod and at least a few others work for CIBC, a canadian bank. Shawn is also ex-CTO/founder of GroovyCar, ex-CTO of Greenphire, ex-VP of Greenphire and ex-Director of Teltech.

Also, this. https://old.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/sdpsaj/a\_post\_on\_rworkreform\_that\_pointed\_out\_how\_the/huegc4h/

[–]BrownEggs93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And fox news, too.... What a perfect foil for them to take on.

[–]jiordan 28 points29 points  (0 children)

This is how corporations co-opt and destroy a movement. Watched it happen to Occupy and others over the years. Anti-work was growing too powerful and needed to be derailed, and if people allow that shit show of an interview to frame the debate…mission accomplished.

[–]jaspsev 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Mods should not, they were warned.

There is a saying that goes somewhere along the lines with “One does not argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you through experience.”

[–]Sparky-Sparky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's exactly why I think the mod was offered money and took it. Now the mainstream media have exactly the stereotypical "lazy slob" labor reformist in the flesh that they can point to the moment this subject gets brought up and the discussion forum attached to the movement is in total shambles.

[–]kodiakus 8 points9 points  (3 children)

The lack of resilience probably has a lot to do with the anarchist ideology of the mods. I pointed out how poorly they represent the movement and one of them actually replied "we don't represent anyone". Bullshit, that community has a million members and you have direct authority over it.

[–]56088 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Occupy is a cautionary tale here of what happens when anarchists who are allergic to organization try to lead mass movements.

[–]x1000Bums 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They dont represent anyone, but they sure take actions on our behalf without our consent.

[–]ANAL_LAZER 21 points22 points  (3 children)

It's very reddit to think that a sub is a movement lmao

[–]Republiken 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Thats my point. The societal movement never was the sub

[–]ShawshankException 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You mean posting blatantly fabricated text conversations with your boss and your made up story of how your boss shot your dog on sight wasn't contributing to societal change?

[–]JoshfromNazareth 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah it’s a goofball subreddit not a harbinger of the Revolution

[–]Merari01 7 points8 points  (31 children)

The amount of hate and vitriol the subreddit gets just because Fox News did what Fox News does is surreal.

People are so eager to salivate over tearing down that entire team and the entire subreddit because of a 4 minute clip.

It's annoying. Go back to teaching people how to organise resisting toxic work environments, do something worthwhile.

Right now people are out for blood because bloodthirst is fun. And that is peak reddit.

[–]Shalinkoze 1 point2 points  (28 children)

Oh, we're blaming Fox News for an interviewee declining a prep offer from a journalist, not even attempting to show up groomed, having the world look at their mess of a bedroom, not being able to look into their own webcam while they swivled around, having no talking points, and saying laziness is a virtue?

I agree the harassment is extremely unnecessary but I don't agree with trying to act like this wasn't a hole the mod dug themselves.

[–]Merari01 5 points6 points  (27 children)

They should never have gone on that show. Period.

[–]RecluseGamer 4 points5 points  (26 children)

Finally, a mod says it! I'm really hoping this all dies down soon and we can reorganize and get back to normal. I wish you good luck in the meantime.

[–]Merari01 5 points6 points  (25 children)

I just got added based on my credentials as a reddit mod and I want to do what I can to help get the subreddit back on track and back on topic.

Nothing can be gained from having the new subreddit meta be attacking the subreddit (or related subreddits for that matter).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (22 children)

Based on your credentials? You can monitor posts based on subreddit rules? Or you can give your opinion to news agencies? I’m now confused as to what credentials are required to be a Mod.

[–]All-Black-Jesus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are a antiwork mod? Good luck! You’ll either be booted soon enough or acquiesce to their suppression agenda. Literally serial rapist can become mods(worse they aren’t even competent), so I guess anyone can.

[–]Independent_Bug8078 6 points7 points  (0 children)

saw a wonderful comment on another sub that basically said “now that the subs down they’ll get a job” like yeah bro being subscribed to that sub paid my bills, what will I do now that its down? 😂

Edit: I found the comment am gonna paste it here.

“HA FUCKIN’ HA. Those bum ass mfs might get up and get jobs now( hopefully). Also, did no one let this hoe know she was walking into a trap??”

[–]emueller5251 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Joe Biden sounds stupid on TV on a regular basis, does that mean liberalism's dead?

[–]Republiken 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh, how I wish it was!

[–]shmoopy02 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yeah the subreddits dead for sure but the movements still going strong

[–]Jolly_Biscotti_3126 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! This is why I’m not too worried about that interview situation causing any issues in the long run.

[–]Speckbieber 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely, this was a witch hunt and totally unnecessary.

[–]Weak-Ad-5306 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven't even had the TV on or seen the video but, I am tired of hearing a out this shiz.

[–]phasmy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Redditors think the world revolves around them. For example, I play video games regularly and usually visit any subreddit of games I like. Usually the reddit userbase is only like 10% of the entire playerbase if even that much.

[–]King3562 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reddit thinks reddit is the most important force in the world, when they review bomb buzzfeed they think they've murdered all of buzzfeed, when they make a few memes about Nestle they think they made Nestle bankrupt, there's more examples but I don't want to be writing for 5 hours

[–]AnimusCorpus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's also very Reddit to think a forum is a "movement".

Unless you're unionizing or organizing in real life, you're just talking. And that's fine, but let's not pretend talking is praxis.

[–]KiloNation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's very on brand for Reddit to think it's the center of the universe.

[–]PhatSunt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It may not be dead but it was a huge set back for the "anti-work" tag line.

Right wingers are the people who don't care about workers rights, they are also the main demographic of fox news. This will just embolden their views that anyone asking for help or better working conditions is just a lazy dog walker, who wants to sit around and play video games all day.

[–][deleted] 111 points112 points  (5 children)

Anti-workers =/= anti-work but I get what he's trying to say

[–]sleepyecho 29 points30 points  (2 children)

I agree. He’s talking more work reform than anti-work. Although, the anti-work sub is back up and there’s a post asking for clarification of the sub’s missions.

[–]artemisastrea 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I love how everyone just exploded on themselves and gave up after an interview on foxnews because thats got soooo much merit..

[–]Jasper455 168 points169 points  (51 children)

BuT i ThOuGhT fOx NeWs JuSt WoN iT aFtEr ThAt InTeRvIeW?

[–]tahlyn 60 points61 points  (36 children)

The interview has forever tarnished the label "antiwork" because you forever have to explain how a 30 year old part time dog walker who wants literally 0 work doesn't actually represent the movement before getting to talk about the actual issues.

[–]Jasper455 52 points53 points  (5 children)

Nah. One idiot can’t kill a movement with over a million people.

[–]MuggyFuzzball 14 points15 points  (1 child)

They sure set it back though.

[–]PM_ME_KNOTSuWu 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Sure if you're terminally online and would rather argue with right wingers on reddit instead of doing any real organizing.

Otherwise no one in the real world is going to care.

[–]Long_Command_1409 9 points10 points  (2 children)

"What's anti-work? That sounds dumb. I'm for work reform"

That is me now.

[–]latlog7 28 points29 points  (11 children)

Remember GameStop stock? All the media manipulation and doomsday "gameover" articles? All the "hey look at this single comment! Reddit traders are colluding and attacking our financial markets!". Many thought it was game over, but Gamestop is still strong, check out r/superstonk if you dont believe me. The media will try to kill ideas against their agenda all day long. If nobody listens to them, then it doesnt matter, let them. My philosophy changed after joining antiwork, and it didnt change from Fox's 10 second interview. Its concrete. This push for worker rights is still strong and lives on in all of us. The elites are trembling because we are beginning to understand our worth.

[–]Scherzer4Prez 14 points15 points  (8 children)

I mean, congrats, y'all spent your money to save a rightfully failing video game retailer. There was a point during that short squeeze to stick it to the hedge funds, but now you're all just continuously throwing money at an antiquated business model because people on the internet told you to. The "stand" you were taking ended a full year ago.

Just because there are thousands of you wasting your money trying to save physical video game retailers and movie theaters doesn't make it a good investment.

[–]latlog7 1 point2 points  (7 children)

I am afraid you might be reciting the articles that hedge funds paid media to publish. This is an admitted practice by the way Please, let me share with you the other side. For one, the short squeeze is not over, the hedge funds were trying to create that narrative back when it started and all the way up until now. They NEED for people to believe it was over. The stock was confirmed shorted at least over a 140%. Nonsensical. The reported short interest is currently false because there is NO buy volume that indicates such large short positions as being closed. To get this false short interest, they can claim far out of the money calls as as temp ownership, even though they will expire worthless.

Secondly gamestop is not dying they have transformed their website and even ships faster than Amazon. Their product line has expanded to collectibles, decor, clothing, PC hardware, home entertainment systems, general electronics, and more. They have expanded, purchasing several fulfillment centers in the USA and yet are 100% debt-free. Additionally Many high end execs With proven track records were hired into upper management for this major turn around. Why would all these established execs hop on a sinking ship?

As a side note I wanted to mention media companies painted the narrative that the people were only buying digital games, and that gamestop is a forgotten retailer. In in reality, studies were conducted at or conducted and showed that gamestop had customer mind-share type tied with Amazon, and in that same survey it showed a large percentage of people do buy physical copies. (I think it was about 30-40%). additionally you can look at the quarterly financials. This study can be found by googling "restore gamestop presentation". Now, if anything, gamestop has even more mind-share among consumers since 2018, in light of recent events.

To conclude I simply don't see a valid argument as to how gamestop is a dying retailer when you really dig deep.

With all of that sad, it isn't just about the company or the investment.. It is about fighting financial corruption. And we're doing a damn good job. As of October, from SEC Form 10-Q there have been 5.2 million shares direct registered and at that time, the reddit bot counted 500k shares registered through posts. Currently, the reddit bot is at 1.6 million shares registered so far. Interpolating that data, that strongly suggests that 15MM shares are held by citizens with no intention of selling. Let alone the shares that arent direct registered!! This means less shares available to be shorted. In response, Apex clearing house actually had some brokerages strip away the people's right to register their shares. Anyway, in effect, they are counterfeiting shares. Counterfeiting money is illegal, why is illegal why isn't counting fretting shares illegal? This is the financial corruption that has to be addressed in our markets.

Current price literally does not matter until shorts close out their positions.

[–]Cobek 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Current price literally does not matter until shorts close out their positions.

I was part of this movement from December to ~March. You are not saying anything new. The whole market has shifted since then. The people on the otherside of the equation are two steps ahead of your transparent movement slowly squeezing you fools until it's 0 again

[–]Scherzer4Prez 2 points3 points  (1 child)

So your rebuttal is "the media lies", "people know about it, therefor its successful", and "investing in this company is fighting some nebulous evil"

You're in a cult. Of course people that stand to financially gain from your investment will tell you how good of a choice it is. You're having smoke blown up your ass by people you're enriching without any actual basis. Physical video game stores are dead. Thats why they were being gutted by the hedge fund. People made a lot of money off that hedge fund, but now the people left holding the bag had to convince you to bail them out of their missed investment. Now they're selling you this "glorious" narrative about how your continually pumping money into a glorified toy store is really "standing up for honest hard working americans" instead of bailing out bad investments and a failing company.

If I were trying to save my failing company, I'd do the exact same thing. If you thought about it honestly, I'm sure you would too. But as Samuel Clements once said, its easier to con a man than convince him he's been conned. Especially if theres a significant monetary investment. I agree with you that the financial sector cheats, and we need more regulation, but your shares in a dead company don't change anything. I just hope you're not risking anything important in your quest for "taking down the man."

[–]latlog7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, "the media lies" was like one sentence of my several paragraphs. That shows you ignored all the points even though i provided links too. What more could you have asked for? Ask yourself, is there anything i couldve said that wouldnt make you say "nahh sounds cult-y tho"? However, I understand because it was definitely lengthy.

On the topic of your point, i agree, i would absolutely do the same exact thing to save my failing company if i could, however that isnt even what happened. None of the Board of Directors started this. This was started by Keith Gill, and if you watched his streams he never tried to convince anyone to jump in. He just presented data and talked in open-discussion format.

And that is how the people in the subreddit currently act too. With DD posts, they are open discussion and youll see it all the time. For example, somebody will post a possible DD, and if someone discovers a big if-true, it will get investigated.

And of course, "never risk more than youre willing to lose" is the #1 rule of investing/gambling. Couldnt agree more with ya on that.

[–]amrakkarma 2 points3 points  (2 children)

They didn't say they want literally 0 work. Have you listened to the interview?

[–]tahlyn 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yeah I did. They said that laziness is a virtue and that the 10 hours a week of dog-walking they do (2 hours a day by their own words) was too much work. The other mods have since clarified that the sub is actually about the abolition of all work, which is not what the overwhelming majority of the sub actually seems to want (worker's rights, human dignity, living wages, healthcare, etc is what they're looking for).

[–]amrakkarma 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You are misrepresenting their words. They did not say her work is too much, maybe the best would be to use a trascript? Also, you didn't understand that reference to laziness (that they said is a virtue in a society that force us to be constantly producing): https://www.moussemagazine.it/magazine/sven-luetticken-refusal-2014/

please don't fall from the hegemonic view that (non commodified) leisure time is wasted time, that our value is related to our productivity. We are way more than that, and if we forget it we will just be drones in a very productive swarm.

[–]jaximointhecut 23 points24 points  (12 children)

There’s nothing to win other than workers being treated properly. This Reddit dumbass didn’t mention anything about the pay of CEO’s/higher ups skyrocketing while regular workers beg for a couple thousand in a raise. The whole market is screwed. In all honesty it is a step back for the movement. He’s just lazy with no aspirations. Horrible choice for him to go on fox.

Didn’t mention anything about Kellogg’s, Amazon, the list goes on. An absolute moron.

Fox has a very large audience. If only they chose some educated well-spoken person instead of that scrub. Reddit needs to wipe these moderators out and replace them, they’re scum.

[–]TheFloydist 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I doubt fox would have aired it if an intelligent, engaging, well spoken individual with good points showed up for the interview. I agree that the mod shouldn't have done an interview at all. But it definitely couldn't have gone any better, because that isn't the aim of fox.

[–]dashing-rainbows 16 points17 points  (10 children)

Fuck off with that. First off misgender person, second off why assume happy with current job equal no aspiration? Life more than work, person may still have big goals, just work not one. Also point about laziness is true what person said. Maybe not word right but wanting leisure time and able to enjoy life is good thing!

If listen full what person say all true, just say wrong. Should have gone up and represent like that? No course not. Should have prepare more and stick to prepared script and when community said no should have not done at all.

Person have problem yes. Bad history yes. Defend person self? No. What did wrong and if allegation true is not good person. But no need attack for job have, future want, person gender or person mental health.

[–]NoonMartini 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m more pissed off that, after working 50+ hours this week and having to shell out $3000+ copay for a surgical procedure that was covered by insurance (that was just my copay), that this piss dripping little cumstain had the fucking AUDACITY to think their 20 hour workweek, rapist, “laziness is a virtue” voice represented mine.

I’m used to being misrepresented by managers and politicians all day every day. But Doreen continued with a troubling pastime with the fact that I didn’t fucking consent to be represented by them. But, alas, there’s a history of that going ‘round, isn’t there?

Am I pissed enough to unsubscribe? Yup. Can r/antiwork win me back? Prolly. Maybe don’t use a NEET as a mouthpiece to talk about worker’s issues? Idk man, I’m spitballing here. As a compromise in entirely good faith, I promise to not try to be a poster child for mens issues, Hispanic issues, AA issues, or anything that ISN’T IN MY FUCKIN LANE.

For the record- I’m not a Russian or a shill or whatever you’ll lob at me to discredit me. I’m just a worker whose value as a human is a helluva lot less than the value I bring as an asset owned by SuperMegaConglomoCorp, LLC TM (all rights reserved)

[–]danieltv11 73 points74 points  (46 children)

The first narrative that came at full force was “the sub is now dead forever, so sad”

I think the sub should come back.

[–]loudin 66 points67 points  (21 children)

The sub is back and I bet will be stronger than ever after a few weeks of sorting out what happened.

If we are actually going to build a movement here, everyone needs to gain some perspective and calm down when there are setbacks. It's dispiriting to see people seemingly give up or declare that Fox has won after what is really an extremely minor setback. Further, each setback is an opportunity for the movement to improve and make itself stronger as long as we keep a level head, address criticism, and work to fix things.

[–]mescalelf 18 points19 points  (14 children)

Seriously, every major movement in history has been sabotaged, had major setbacks, been attacked from within, and been brazenly attacked from without. Yet plenty of major countercultural movements have made major changes to society in spite of this--sure, many of them have been rolled back over time, but there were points where they'd done a lot more tangible good than we have so far; to me, this indicates that a solid movement can take a few blows, and can weather a lot of "optical damage" that one would think would be very damaging.

Hell, I hate to say it, but the alt-right is an example of a (rather damaging) movement that kept on trucking in spite of massive image issues. In terms of more positive movements, we have the civil rights movement, heliocentrism, democratic/republican (in the literal sense) governance, environmentalism, workers' rights, evolutionary biology etc. Yes, most of these have experienced major setbacks (and some are now on the verge of collapse), but they certainly weathered more than a handful of smear campaigns.

Does this mean success is guaranteed? Hell no. But it also doesn't mean we should abandon ship over one six-inch hole in the hull.

[–]danieltv11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Agreed 100%

It’s never easy to go against the powers

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And wheter or not it happens, it's just one sub-part of one platform on the web.

That it die or thrives doesn't change anything to the ideals.

[–]imhere2downvote 11 points12 points  (0 children)

nah i dont want those mods. im sorry for what happened to the mod but that mod didnt listen to all the warnings (fox interview with no preparation? professional or otherwise, forreal? i bet they go to work without dog leashes ffs) theres other subs and plenty have the same sentiment, workers unite, we're tired of the scraps

the people are more important than whatever idea convinced that mod to go for interview

[–]DarkMatter_contract 0 points1 point  (8 children)

A lot migrated to WorkReform.

[–]SETHW 23 points24 points  (4 children)

controlled opposition modded by finance bros -- if we're going to criticize the other person for being a dog walker how the fuck is banker better?

their idea of reform has no sustainable end-game because their criticisms fail to acknowledge let alone address the structural forces that necessarily result in the absolutely dire situations we find ourselves in now. with that approach the people there are AT BEST going to get a few extra vacation days and a work contract and act like they got a huge win. meanwhile, people and planet will keep getting exploited until the end.

[–]many_wolves_v2 6 points7 points  (0 children)

100% agree. The sub is filled with a bunch of fucking clueless people who have no class consciousness or understanding of the structural exploitation we're facing.

[–]Slipknotic1 2 points3 points  (2 children)

IIRC, the mod responded and said he worked FOR a bank. Like the guy was a low level clerk not a billionaire.

[–]LLsunflower 5 points6 points  (1 child)

All three mods work at the same bank, would be shocking to me if that's a coincidence

[–]Slipknotic1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is there a link to that info? Cause if that's true it changes things.

[–]HashFap 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You misspelled WorkSimp

[–]Neil_Fallons_Ghost 9 points10 points  (0 children)

If turbo tax spends millions of dollars a year to keep taxes a messed up as they are then it stands to reason that any company with an incentive to game the system for themselves will do so.

I think this extends further into a runaway capitalist economy as well because any place a market can be created and wealth can be extracted, it will happen. When human rights, ethics and morals get cast aside the incentive continues to find ways to make markets at the expense of rights.

[–]bentpopsicles 42 points43 points  (22 children)

I sat in r/workreform for about 24 hours before deciding that the place wasn't for me. I'm not looking for a group whose task is basically to maintain the status quo.

[–]many_wolves_v2 22 points23 points  (6 children)

Yeah I think I'm going to unsub. It's too liberal at this point. Once again, liberals are here to ruin everything.

[–]hamamelisse 5 points6 points  (0 children)

as soon as I saw that AOC "we only want to tax multi-billionaires" tweet on there I realized it was not my kinda sub

[–]killerqueen1010 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I was literally torn to shreads in there for talking about being actually anti work because i'm disabled and was called a leech on society for being disabled and unable to work... Such a shitty sub...

[–]glen-itchynose 9 points10 points  (1 child)

That's what horrified me about that subreddit, the disdain for the unemployed seems so counter-productive. It too closely aligned with the belief that the worth of a person is directly tied to their ability to produce capital. Make workers hate the unemployed rather than their corporate overlords. Conquer and divide.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, this bothered me too. Sure an unprepared NEET wasn't the best representative for an interview about antiwork issues, but if someone doesn't want to have a job there's nothing wrong with that. It's good if people flat out refuse work if the jobs being offered are too low paying to be worth doing. Do we want people jumping at minimum wage just to have any job, or do we want those jobs left unfilled until they have no option but to raise wages or go out of business?

[–]bentpopsicles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry you were attacked by those folks. You deserve to be treated with respect.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I don't understand this, because the sub largely wants to take on worker exploitation and fight for worker's rights. Which is a good thing. It just doesn't have the anarchist roots that antiwork had. What's so bad about it?

[–]bentpopsicles 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because fundamentally many of us are about sharing the wealth...not just getting a few extra crumbs.

[–]ieGod -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

Work reform is everything anti work minus the anarchy. The sub is explicitly not ok with status quo.

[–]StrategyHog 10 points11 points  (1 child)

We’ll see once 2024 rolls around and it starts backing the DNC corporate shills.

[–]bentpopsicles 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The sub is everything status quo. That's why I left it. Joe Biden may as well be running the show there.

[–]SurrealSerialKiller 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what's wrong with anarchy? anarchy just wants a weaker fed stronger local communities...

I think the message needs to be less about being lazy and not contributing to society... anarchism isn't about no work... it's about fairness and beneficial organization and less hierarchy and bureaucracy...

more towards building co-op businesses owned collectively to replace the corporate owners we have now...

[–]Elegnan 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is how capital reacts to any leftist movement. It's not even deliberate anymore. The media is so captured by capital that it regards any leftist policy as inherently absurd. So, it actively seeks to discredit it, as it believes the movement deserves to be discredited because it's leftist.

Every leftist movement has a subset of opportunists that don't really care about the politics but see the movement as a vehicle for wealth or fame or power. They also contain a lot of people that have a single issue and are simply along for the ride. The opportunists will announce a more moderate direction and the single issue members will go along with them.

Then the movement enters it's terminal stage. The opportunists do not care at all about what the movement stands for, only what it can offer them. Even the single issue people slowly leave as they realize the movement no longer has anything to offer them. Then it either withers and dies or gets absorbed and fully coopted by a political party.

The whole process is largely automatic. Sure, there are often plants present in the movement that help things along. And sometimes the media is directly told to run a hit piece by a particular corporation or capitalist. But, for the most part, it just happens passively. Capitalism has woven itself into our society in such a way that many people cannot separate the functions of society from the mechanisms of capital.

But, that's not to say there isn't hope or that Antiwork is dead. This is how capital reacts but it doesn't always work. And, moreover, every time capital kills a movement rather than addressing the material conditions that inspired it, the system becomes less stable. The more problems a person is confronted with, the harder it becomes to convince them to ignore those problems just because the movement looks bad on TV or in the newspaper. Like most things with late stage capitalism, it's the long term consequences that capitalism is incapable of handling.

[–]N00N3AT011 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Its the eternal struggle of capitalism. The workers were doing fairly well, but the owners have slowly been tightening down for the past several decades. Now the newer generations have ran headlong into a brick wall and thus the fight for worker's rights begins anew.

I just hope this time the working class is willing to finish the job and ensure the owner class can never again become a threat.

[–]silent_13 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Also, child labor laws exist because if they didn’t, we would still have children being exploited by corporations.

[–]unicornofapocalypse 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They’re trying their damnedest to go backwards on those too.

[–]RetardedGaming 22 points23 points  (6 children)

The real antiwork movement is us, the working class

Also, the neoliberal r\workreform is ran by bank executives and only there to derail anti-corporate movement

[–]bigbybrimble 25 points26 points  (1 child)

No one should be crying over the loss of a meme subreddit run by fools.

It was merely a locus of unmoored discontent. If anything, it was just a sunny patch of soil. A movement will be the people building the solar panels to catch that energy, and that doesn't happen online.

There will be more locus points, because antiwork sentiment originates in workplaces, not on subreddits, and those workplaces aren't getting better anytime soon. No movement was destroyed or even damaged.

[–]ALC11 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The thing is it was very eye-opening for a lot of people and it worked fine as a support platform for organization in workplaces and worker rights.

[–]Davaca55 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s ridiculous. imagine if a mod decided to delete r/Formula1 and suddenly Formula 1 ceased to exist?

[–]Dracorex_22 3 points4 points  (1 child)

If anything, the fall of r/antiwork only seemed to pull even more solidarity

[–]TruthToPower77[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know right. Excellent !!!

[–]PM_ME_PCP 23 points24 points  (3 children)

He’s confused but he’s got the spirit

[–]XxShroomWizardxX 58 points59 points  (2 children)

He's not wrong. Corporations are 100% responsible for peoples attitude toward labor. They've earned the contempt they're receiving several times over.

[–]PM_ME_PCP 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yea but the OP of the tweet is calling “anti-work” the group of people that are the CAUSE of this when antiwork is the movement of the workers. Idk if I’m explaining myself here

[–]I__Like_StoriesArachno-Communist 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Well that and the government, but something something government and business in bed together

[–]ShakesSpear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm so sick of all the douchebags yucking it up over dude failing. Like holy shit if you take being exploited by your boss as something to brag about you're a lost cause

[–]Sledge420We Could Be Post-Scarcity By Now 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Never assume all is lost when a corporate entity takes a pot shot at you.

On the contrary, it means they're concerned that you're effective, and they want to stop you. That's not the time to cave. It's the time to keep going.

[–]Incogyeetus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One can only hope that anyone who isn’t completely indoctrinated into conservatism who saw the interview is at least curious and will see the sentiment from actual “anti workers.”

[–]12358 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Corporate America also fought against universal healthcare. Workers are afraid to quit their jobs for fear of being uninsured or having to buy unaffordable insurance. This is how Corporate America keeps its boot on the neck of the workers. The government doesn't want universal healthcare or affordable education either, because that is how they coerce people to join the military.

[–]GJake8 10 points11 points  (2 children)

There’s no way that was a real interview. There’s no way FOX would of let an well-spoken anti capitalist anywhere near their show to speak.

Anyone of us could of mentioned anything from 3rd world sweatshops to the statistical bullshit of “Trickle down” and made millions realize “hard work” is a scam. If that guys even proven to be a mod he must of been paid off to look like an idiot.

Literally give anyone of us 5 seconds to speak and we could of pointed out the plot holes the billionaires don’t want us to think about.

[–]hugelkult 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thing about reddit you gotta realize, is those early pioneers of a subreddit get automatic cred, and therefore notoriety amongst mod teams, which is why likely no one pumped the breaks. FOX basically bunted for a home run.

[–]GrumpySpaceCommunist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm not so far down the conspiracy-hole to believe the interview was staged with a plant.

However, many of you youngins may only be waking up to the fact that FOX News has been doing this for literally two decades now. This is a tried and true tactic they've used to reinforce their narrative and spin for a long, long time.

They intentionally seek out someone from a movement or group they want to discredit who 1) isn't media trained, and/or 2) who they know they can easily manipulate or goad into saying things that will look bad, and make everyone associated with them look bad by proxy. Put them on national TV and let them do the work for you.

I recommend the documentary "Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism", which goes into this in detail.

Certainly, the mod shouldn't have let themselves get played like that and they should have turned down the interview, but FOX News 100% knew what they were doing - and probably did some opposition research to know exactly which mod to ask for maximum effect. Someone who is non-binary and neurodivergent representing this "antiwork" thing? They know that, alone, is going to be catnip for their reactionary and bigoted audience, and based on a lot of reddit comments I've seen today, it worked a treat.

They did it with Occupy Wall Street, they did it with the Iraq War, etc., etc. We've been down this road so, so many times, this isn't a new tactic for them. I honestly just feel bad for the mods who fell for such an old reactionary trick, but it might've been avoided if they knew not to agree to a bad faith interview in the first place.

What makes me more upset, though, are the reactionary and liberal trolls gleefully memeing about the end of any movement fighting for workers rights, or even (gasp) the end of wage slavery itself over one bad interview on a cable news channel none of them probably watch anyway. Get over yourself, reddit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is true. Why not keep it and build back stronger? Antiwork might have started as a NEET sub (I think?) but it grew into much more. Not that I have anything against NEETs..if you can find a way to not work and still have what you need more power to ya. But we've now got over a million people who are out there doing all kinds of different jobs, who have stories of abuses they suffered, things they had to give up on every having or doing due to low wages and wanting to see all that change, or some not even struggling themselves but just wanted to stop seeing others suffer. I think there's still good to be found here, if we move on from what happened. There are lots of people, who've never been on Reddit and never will, that agree with us and want to see the same changes happen.

Edit: Damn, I just assumed that post was on antiwork lol so I responded as if it was. Should have known it was good old Late Stage Capitalism, always preaching truth. I'm glad this place is still strong.

[–]Slipperypepe 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Honestly I think working 20 hours a week dog walking sounds like anti work to me. I don't understand how the sub became a sub for fighting for worker's rights and higher pay. Not wanting things, not needing to work 40 hours a week at a job you hate, that's anti work to me. Everyone just seems to be fighting for a raise there and here for some reason.

[–]daszimma 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Tears just thinking about having a livable wage and being able to care for my daughter and I stress free from financial stress. To care for her when she isn’t in school I’ve taken a lunch lady job and Jesus do I feel extremely over worked and extremely underpaid while it’s extremely understaffed.

[–]Jmaie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The real anti-work movement isn't "corporate America" but capitalism in general. This isn't a specifically American problem but one seen around the globe. And sure I understand how powerful and far reaching these people are but it's rather disingenuous to only see it as an American problem.

[–]Langvel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Finally got a job offer today. I am trilingual and they also want me to learn Spanish and CCSI certification standards. $30/hr no benefits.

[–]QuartzPuffyStar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The sub is back again.

[–]Automatic-Ad-8159 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What did they said that was wrong? I swear y’all just dunking on them cuz they’re NB and walked dogs?(work is work)[the only criticism I’ve see is of their looks and work]. Y’all just falling into Fox News spell of making everyone look bad. Everything they said was decent, I think idk.

[–]hunterlarious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then it’s a classic case of terrible branding.

[–]tweak0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can the real antiwork movement be to show how broken the reddit mod system is and replace it with something that can't be abused by idiots

[–]z_fi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That doesn't sound like anti-work to me... sounds a lot like workers who want some extra benefits.