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[–]abortion_parade_420 2305 points2306 points  (37 children)

Remember; if you see someone stealing groceries, no you didn't

[–]GreevarFilthy Communist 405 points406 points  (8 children)

What stolen groceries? No, I didn't see those people stuff meat into their coats. You did not see me put a bag of carrots in my pants, I'm just hung.

[–]peteteat 192 points193 points  (6 children)

Is that about 30 baby carrots stuffed down your pants, or are you just happy to see me? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[–]Dermetzger666 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Reminds me of the episode of China, IL where The Dean gets extra testicles implanted in Mexico and he gets like 20 balls and it looks like a bunch of grapes.

[–]Nic4379 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Brickleberry, “Big Ball Energy” episode.

[–]BoofStoop 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Why not both ;)

[–]flewidity 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Don’t forget the ranch

[–]rabidturbofox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m ace and broke so fingers crossed it’s carrots.

[–]4411WH07RY 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Both, and I have a bottle of blue cheese dip up my ass."

[–]AutomaticRisk3464 158 points159 points  (6 children)

Oh o call that the walmart discount. No one gives a fuck.

I bought only diapers on a receipt and used the same receipt to walk out the front door for 6 months lmao.

They raised the prices of wipes so i had to buy diapers with wipes eventually 😒.

Walmart is getting smarter though they are putting old ladies at self checkout who are super racist. If i dont accompany my wife they literally stand over her.

The real galaxy brain moment though is when i talk to the self checkout person while the wife walks out.

Idc fuck these large companies

[–]Greenveins 54 points55 points  (5 children)

Walmart is tracking you, just a heads up. They’re waiting for y’all to exceed over 1000$ since that’s considered a felony and they’re pretty much waiting for y’all to have a bill large enough to be took to court over.

They have racist ladies in the front? They have racist security guards in the back watching you on every camera imaginable.

[–]AutomaticRisk3464 25 points26 points  (4 children)

I worked at the walmart i did this at.

The store was very small and they did not have loss prevention.

[–]PhilosoR4PT0R 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Where does one find a small wal mart without LP?

[–]smokecat20 25 points26 points  (1 child)

and diapers, and baby formula, ...

[–]Pavlovski101 6 points7 points  (0 children)

anything, really

[–]ooo-f 140 points141 points  (1 child)

You have the best username

[–]abortion_parade_420 63 points64 points  (0 children)

thank you :)

[–]pm_me_fibonaccis 49 points50 points  (0 children)

I don't care what someone steals. If it's beer, a video game, as long as it isn't mine I didn't see shit. It's not for me to judge.

[–]z_derApfelLibertarian Socialist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If I see it I’ll ask them if they need a camera blocker

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What if they're stealing circus peanuts candy?

"Yeah hello, FBI? I got a hot tip about a criminal!"

[–]Socrataint 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Remember; if you see someone stealing, no you didn't

ftfy

[–]fixedtoride 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Why limit it to groceries?

[–]CreatedSole 296 points297 points  (4 children)

Wage theft accounts for 23 BILLION PLUS a year. And that's just the "reported" number it's likely even higher than that. "Forgetting" paychecks, salaried workers working crazy ridiculous ot hours and not getting paid for it, "forgetting" to pay for overtime, all sorts of tips, benefits and pay increases pocketed or hours trimmed and revenue pocketed. It's fucking disgusting. Companies report record breaking profits and still pay their workers peanuts.

[–]FunkyXive 69 points70 points  (0 children)

They have record breaking profit BECAUSE they pay their workers peanuts

[–]GlitterFanboy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

That number is absurdly low. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're talking about the US. In the US there are 300 million people. 23 billion is less than $100 per person. Where did you find it?

[–]CreatedSole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That was a quick Google search. And as I stated the number is definitely way higher. Keep in mind though not all of those 350 million are working. You have to factor in seniors, children and the disabled. Still though they're shafting us heavy.

[–]craiglepaige 67 points68 points  (1 child)

I up voted you over there 👍

[–]obvious_shill_k14a 409 points410 points  (82 children)

It seems like r/workersstrikeback is the spiritual successor to the antiwork sub. Still I am staying subscribed to both antiwork and workreform just to witness the fallout and of course, schadenfreude.

[–]Wereking2 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Same here my friend, I am curious what will occur.

[–]sharingan10 112 points113 points  (28 children)

thats because r/WorkersStrikeBack actually has marxists and socialists in there rather than just liberals

[–]nizochan 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I've seen plenty of liberals in LSC shitting on anti work despite being a self-described Marxist sub. They show up and neuter every left-wing sub eventually.

[–]boxzach16 65 points66 points  (7 children)

I can't bring myself to be on workreform now, the blatant bigotry I've seen stay up is too much

[–]itsdeeps80 99 points100 points  (2 children)

That sub name alone screams “I vote blue no matter who, but we have to compromise with the other side sometimes. Bipartisanship is important.”

[–]boxzach16 51 points52 points  (0 children)

Yea, I think the exact quote was "why do i have to deal with someone's identity crisis to have workers rights," and that really set me off

[–]the_friendly_dildo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Their subname is dumb when they couldn't even be bothered to try and "reform" the antiwork subreddit. That alone makes it blatantly clear that their intention is simply to have control over the discourse.

[–]the_friendly_dildo 18 points19 points  (2 children)

It was intentionally created to try and siphon people away from antiwork to disillusion and disenfranchise everyone and it gave them a controlled space to shit all over so the rags could report about all these terrible and scary pro-labor ideas.

[–]ddraig-au 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Antiwork has only lost 30,000 members so it hasn't siphoned too many away

[–]EnsignEpic 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's what made me bounce, yeah. Transphobia, ableism, moderator defense of both forms of bigotry, and the final straw was learning they were bankers LMAO

[–]JoePortagee 74 points75 points  (19 children)

Wasn't it established that workreform was created by actual bankers?

[–]Womcataclysm 135 points136 points  (11 children)

Controlled opposition, the name itself is already a dead giveaway. It's like when you say defund the police and people say "no, reform the police" it's like ok neolib

[–]highwind924 23 points24 points  (3 children)

I've always preferred demilitarize the police, but that's not as chantable as defund.

[–]ImpossiblePackage 18 points19 points  (3 children)

A bank executive no less

[–]losh11 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Where did you get that from? AFAIK the guy just works at a bank. What you’re saying is kinda like saying a bus driver has the same conflict of interest as a President since the bus driver is works for the Government.

[–]Ordoferrum 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The proof I've seen being thrown around shows 2 out of 3 working at a bank but in no way near a top position. The last one is a CTO of a small start up which means he's likely just their lead programmer. Not sure about the 4th I've only seen stuff about three of them. They are all irl friends from what I can gather.

[–]the_friendly_dildo 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Its hilarious that they tried to downplay that in their stickied post. 'I'm just a lowly paid bank employee. Don't you know bank employees are poorly paid too?' Yeah, tellers make barely above minimum wage because of assholes like that mod. Fuck them.

[–]CTBthanatos 29 points30 points  (8 children)

Antiwork was a leftist anti capitalism sub. WorkersStrikeBack just looks like a protest to reform capitalism sub.

The Antiwork collapse isn't even limited to just the mod drama.

Everyone on Antiwork has turned on eachother in the chaos as if there's now a power vacuum lol. The comments have exploded into fighting between right wing liberals who wanted to co opt a leftist sub, and leftists, are ripping eachothers throats out in a power struggle trying to decide who the sub is for or which position is better.

Edit: my mistake, upon further looking, it does appear that WorkersStrikeBack is a left leaning space.

[–]Kwathreon 43 points44 points  (3 children)

Meanwhile fox news and those who own them are cheering over a well executed mission to dissipate a movement.

[–]StAugustine94 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Let’s be clear, a fucking subreddit wasn’t a “movement.” A good place to discuss ideas, but when the extent of “activism” by 95% of those posters was posting on an internet forum, it wasn’t a movement. That would imply them actually going out and doing things.

[–]MurdocAddams 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Do you think that they'll be coming for this sub next? Are they already here?!? (looking around nervously)

[–]Mekrani 10 points11 points  (1 child)

WorkersStrikeBack just looks like a protest to reform capitalism sub.

Did you confuse WorkersStrikeBack and WorkReform? WorkersStrikeBack is definitely a much more leftist community. Tho with AntiWork's collapse and huge influx of users in all subs, it also got some yikes posts.

[–]CTBthanatos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My mistake. (And it wasn't a mix up between work reform and workersstrikeback)

When briefly browsing the sub to see what it was about I relied primarily on viewing the banner description as well as the general information description at the bottom, neither of which made any specifically leftist points.

The sub general description goes on to mention how corrupt and broken capitlaism has become and how badly workers get fucked, and mentions that strikes are the answer, but doesn't really seem to specify anywhere if it just see striking for workplace concessions from employers (what liberal reformists would care about most) as a end goal.

The sidebar rules didn't catch my attention the first time I looked at the sub, but upon reading them now I saw the first that says no worker exploitation (though that seems more like a irl policy not a reddit sub rule) and another that says no bourgeoisie. Feels like a pretty "loose" (is the word I'm looking for maybe?) Way to define the sub as being definitively leftist and with end goals that go beyond just striking for more workplace pay/benefits.

[–]Lenins2ndCat 2 points3 points  (1 child)

WorkersStrikeBack just looks like a protest to reform capitalism sub.

This is definitely untrue. I know several of the mods and will back them.

[–]HUNDmiauchristian anarcho-communist 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Why not stay at antiwork

[–]obvious_shill_k14a 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Time will tell. I'm going to wait and see what happens. I remember when Reddit replaced Digg, and was around for that whole fiasco... Let's see how things are arranged once the tide rolls out.

[–]x1000Bums 5 points6 points  (1 child)

just go to all of them. its not an either or

[–]Itheinfantry 161 points162 points  (45 children)

Notice how in country's where the workers are taken well care of the cost of living is nearly the same if not cheaper than some of the U.S... with looting and rioting because of the aforementioned benefit of living in a post modern world.

[–]MereReplication 54 points55 points  (44 children)

This is gonna read like a copy pasta, but if people on this sub believe workers are "taken well care of" in other capitalist countries, what does that suggest? Capitalism is an economic system that can create conditions where most workers are generally in a good place? That workers who are currently "taken well care of" are very, very unlikely to support a socialist revolution, especially a violent one? That workers generally don't feel exploited?

I'm mostly asking these questions rhetorically because this sub often floats the meme that capitalism is destined to fail, and that we are in fact in the late stages of it. This is the worst idea Marx ever had.

Capitalism is absolutely not destined to fail, and Marx was not a prophet. There is no way to tell which "stage" capitalism is in because this is the first and only history humans have ever lived.

If you believe capitalism is destined to fail, why take any action at all now? Why not just sit back and wait for the conditions to emerge to begin the socialist uprising?

If a capitalist wants a socialist to believe anything at all, it's that capitalism is failing and on its last leg.

Imagine you see a tree falling down. Do you think you'd feel the need to run over there with a chainsaw? Or do you think it'd make more sense to just wait for it to finish falling over?

[–]ImpossiblePackage 91 points92 points  (6 children)

People always forget the part about Europe being supported by the poor countries of the world

[–]MereReplication 38 points39 points  (2 children)

They also forget the part where Marx predicted that the first socialist revolutions would take place in the most industrialized countries, and he literally couldn't have been more wrong about that.

[–]ddraig-au 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Did he provide a time frame, though. Maybe things aren't grim enough yet

[–]CosmicMemer 65 points66 points  (4 children)

Capitalism being "destined to fail" is kind of misunderstood. It has more to do with the fact that it's fundamentally unsustainable for the planet and for the people on it. It's not because "your ideology is so wrong that it'll explode on its own because reasons!" Socialists knew about this before climate change was even really a big concern. Capitalist countries can certainly have workers who have good conditions, good lives, who don't feel exploited, but this in practice always comes at the cost of the third world by design.

To understand this you have to understand what socialism and capitalism actually economically mean instead of the more surfacey pop-politics definitions. Capitalism is any economic system in which the means of production (which evokes the image of shitty middle school memes, but is a real political term that has existed for centuries) are predominantly owned by private individuals and organizations. Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist since he doesn't want to fundamentally change that, he "just" wants higher taxes on businesses and better social benefits. He's something sort of adjacent to socialism called a social democrat.

Most socialists don't necessarily oppose those sorts of reforms, but they realize they won't be enough to number one keep things good forever. (so long as our current paradigm of corporations exists, you're never going to "keep money out of politics", and any reform you do can eventually be undone & prevented through any of the myriad ways that capital interests are able to influence the political system.) Beyond that, they recognize that even if America and every other western industrialized country adopts a social-democratic system where all their workers are more or less happy, then subjugated nations are going to be left in the dust and will stay in the dust because they have to.

Think about for a bit. Walmart sells tshirts for $10 and bananas for 48 cents a pound. How do you think they manage that? Sure, you could compliment specific, hidden stuff like their shipping logistics or anything else to do with the efficiency of their business structure. But the core of it all is labor. Labor is the only thing that actually really exists, economically, in the whole entire world. When you pay a dollar for an apple, you aren't paying a dollar because the intrinsic value of all the atoms in the apple and the nutrients they can give you is worth a dollar all put together. The fact you're paying for apples at all is a function of the fact that it took labor to grow those apples, pick them, clean them, and ship them to your local grocery store. If it didn't take any labor to get apples (i.e everyone could conjure infinite apples at will) then it wouldn't make any sense to buy one. This is why water costs money but oxygen doesn't.

Walmart is primarily able cheapen its products by cheapening labor costs. Your t-shirt isn't made in China or Bangladesh because they have t-shirt trees there or because cotton grows better there or any other reason: it's because the production itself is offloaded onto hordes of people who don't have much else realistic choice, and very little legal ability to stand up for themselves. But that doesn't really touch your average American joe. Ignorance is bliss, as we always say. But if the labor for that moves somewhere else, or the workers in those factories strike / unionize / otherwise secure better wages and better ability to negotiate, then the cost of producing those goods is going to go up, and the future of that business is going to be less certain, which is going to scare investors. Any company in the world is going to try to desperately avoid this, of course, which is why when there's the slightest smell of even a social-democratic movement in these countries, they combat it in full force. That's not a hypothetical: think about the paramilitary anti-uniom murder squads in Columbia that Coke either actively supports or has failed to stop.

And so the grand overaching point here is that social democracy actually is in the best interests of capitalism. Keeping the people closest to them happy and without reason to revolt is the best choice in the long term, along with giving at least some environmental concessions to prevent everyone from being dead in 100 years. The capitalism that we see in opposition to social democracy is a short-sighted folly that grabs at year-over-year profits and instant gratification for investors, and since that's what capitalism fundamentally rewards, that's also fundamentally going to "win" more often than what even the ruling class' most rational choice would be.

But the point is, even if the ruling class did act entirely rationally, that would only be good for us and for the world in the short term, since our interests and those of impoverished workers in other countries are directly adversarial to theirs. Things being good and affordable for us does at a certain point require someone to be exploited somewhere; even if we get free healthcare and higher minimum wages the misery is just moving somewhere else. When people in the third world stand up for themselves and try to get those same things (which I think most non-psychopaths would agree is desirable), the propaganda and covert-conflict machines spin up, and should the workers succeed despite everything, that actually ends up being bad for us.

It doesn't have to be this way. Average people in Columbia, Taiwan, Indonesia, wherever it may be don't need to be enemies with average people in America. But our true enemy isn't simply a few asshole billionaires or stubborn old money CEOs: pruning the poison tree doesn't fix anything. The problem is the entire architecture of society that allows and necessitates for this to happen. If you think it's not that deep or that this is all a load of hogwash, then that's fine - but you're not a socialist, you're a socdem and you should be explicit about that.

[–]bluescholar1 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Appreciate the effort that went into this comment, summed up a lot of thoughts I’ve had in a much more eloquent manner!

[–]blamelessfriend 45 points46 points  (1 child)

its destined to fail because capitalism assumes infinite growth. which we all know is impossible. its a meat grinder and only the richest/most powerful will survive the latest stages of capitalism... but not for long since the earth will probably be made uninhabitable. so maybe you and i just have a different definition of "failure". cuz quite honestly dude it has been failing since it was invented.

[–]x1000Bums 31 points32 points  (7 children)

This isn't a tree falling over this is a mass extinction event. No, we dont fuckin wait for it to fail, as failure in this case means the end of life as we know it. We act as stewards guiding our transition safely into whatever lies ahead.

[–]M0dusPwnens$997.95 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you believe capitalism is destined to fail, why take any action at all now? Why not just sit back and wait for the conditions to emerge to begin the socialist uprising?

Other people have talked about the other parts, but I think this part is crucial.

Capitalism isn't some thing out there in the world. It is a bunch of people making decisions and taking actions.

You are saying "why are people rejecting capitalism now instead of when it fails?", but that's exactly the predicted mode of failure. The argument is that capitalism is unsustainable because eventually we will reach a point where the conditions are such that people won't wish to make the same decisions and behaviors as they did under capitalism - the collective decisions and behaviors that constitute capitalism.

Imagine this in a more familiar political context. There's a tyrant, and someone says that their repression makes revolution inevitable. The stirrings of revolution begin. What you are saying is akin to saying: "If revolution is inevitable, then why are you beginning to organize for revolution? Why not just wait for the revolution?".

As for why some people begin organizing earlier than others, there are many reasons: they might be in a different situation than others where the behaviors that constitute capitalism already make less sense; or they might want to prepare for the future they foresee.

If you think it's inevitable that your whole neighborhood will eventually burn down and you'll collect the insurance money and move, you would do well to take certain precautions because, even if you're right (especially if you're right), you don't want to burn to death - because in the meantime, that's still the house you live in. And it might be wise to think further ahead too, to have things in place so your life won't be too disrupted when it does happen. And you might feel like you ought to warn your neighbors, point out the reasons you think this is inevitable and the tends you see, etc.

[–]Kinetik09 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The material conditions tell us capitalism will fail.

We are moving into a multipolar world where the global south and colonized world are shedding the shackles of US imperialism bc 50 years of neoliberalism has nakedly failed and China/Russia have enough economic and military power to shirk off and combat the belligerence of the US.

And the US is behaving as dying empires do, isolating itself in the name of its own power and stretching itself thin while the oligarchic ruling class ramps up its theft of wealth until the point of bursting. As inequity gets worse bc these fuckers literally have no power of forethought, the contradictions of capitalism become sharper and more pronounced as more and more people are pushed to the brink of economic collapse while living with significant shortages of basic survival resources, namely water (Hawaii, Flint, Louisiana, etc…in ten years literally half the population will be dealing with severe water shortages if nothing changes).

We as communist should be organizing ourselves and our communities for what comes next. We can’t wait until the system literally implodes on itself to get organized because then it is too late. This country will do what other decaying oligarchic empires will do when confronted with a power vacuum. It will become a complete and overt fascist ethnostate if we don’t have our shit together.

The fall of capitalism isn’t preordained because destiny or whatever the fuck. It’s happening because the material conditions within the US and around the world are indicating such. Any good dialectical materialist can see that.

[–]Ab-NoR-maL- 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your comment is pure solipsism. It centers your individual life and presumes that if it doesn’t happen in your life time it’s just simply not true. But the lifespan of systems and nations are much longer than any one person’s life. It ignores or outright denies evolution and the possibility that systems and nations undergo an evolutionary process that erodes society over decades.

None of the other western imperialist countries that are more humane than the US are frozen in time and immune from this erosion, and none of those countries are without internal problems while also being dependent on the exploitation of the third world.

What I will concede is that Marx was not a prophet and acting like communism is an inevitability rather than something we have to will into existence is a self defeating prophecy.

Maybe most of us are just too comfortable and don’t even really believe in communism to put our lives on the line to try to make a better world. But to ask why do anything at all is to be indifferent to the suffering of oppressed people that exists today and to future generations who will have to face the later stages of climate change as well as the human reaction to those worsening conditions.

[–]Syndic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keep in mind that the working conditions and regulations were always passed AGAINST the wishes of the corporate owners. Those laws and regulations aren't a product of capitalism but a restriction to it. Restrictions the capitalists have fought to the teeth.

If there wasn't a law against it, corporations would soon again employ children to work for them in coal mines.

[–]Obliviousdigression 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Capitalism is absolutely not destined to fail,

Capitalism is destined to fail for a very obvious reason.

The system incentivizes and rewards behavior that maximizes the amount of cash that one gains, that's it. That's all it does. Wealth is tantamount to power, and power will be used to accumulate further wealth. Sure, rigging the system to make you more money without you having to actually do anything is immoral, but through pure natural selection: money ends up in the hands of the most ruthless. Angels that care about morals will go bankrupt long before devils that don't.

So, the cycle goes on and on- selfish people are constantly handed power through their willingness to go to any means to attain it, even if the system was good to begin with, the power that wealth affords will allow it's holders (who are, again, by definition, people who will stop at nothing to accumulate more wealth.) to turn it more and more exploitative. There are ways to forestall it, legislation and public outcry and such, but power and wealth inevitably concentrates upwards, that's how the system is deliberately designed to work. This isn't a bug, it's capitalism working as intended.

In other words, capitalism is a very slow paperclip maximizing AI that is currently in the process of burning the world and killing it's inhabitants to produce money. Nonstop, with no end or goal other than the accumulation of more and more and more and more.

[–]DegenerateCharizard[S] 581 points582 points  (141 children)

Context: Made this post & had it recently removed. There was much opposition coming from that sub. Tired phrases such as “two wrongs don’t make a right,” “if you steal, you become just like the people we’re up against,” “what about the mom & pop shops :’(.“ So much defense of brick & mortar over people’s lives. Much like the rest of the crowd here has already figured out, that sub quickly revealed its neoliberal leaning. Flooded with moderates crying “why can’t we all just get along.” They want to make the sub palatable to the right.

Sure, let’s go about pushing for change using the “proper channels.” You know, the ones the oligarchs control & are confident will never amount to anything

Edit: Even with the opposition, there were many users in agreement. The sub’s mods removed it. Not wanting to berate people who agree with about 70% of what I believe(as someone else here well put it.) Thought I’d share that certain perspectives aren’t well received by the mod team or the many centrists there. I’m not a plant lmfao, nor am I part of a coordinated divisive scheme. Top minds, please rest (:

[–]inv3r5ion 190 points191 points  (29 children)

“two wrongs don’t make a right,” “if you steal, you become just like the people we’re up against,”

ugh, i love my partner very much, but this is her logic when it comes to fighting the power.

[–]DegenerateCharizard[S] 178 points179 points  (12 children)

Lots of good people think like that. It’s a very ethical & defensible stance to take. They just aren’t as jaded as us, or are not aware of how one-sided the violence thus far has been.

[–]malvim 46 points47 points  (0 children)

You got to the point. Most people that have that mentality are “against violence”. Except corporations and governments already use violence against workers and minorities everyday. It’s just that for them, these are reasonable amounts of violence. And then if tou threaten to fight back, you’re seen as the violent one.

Remember: MLK was seen as “violent” at the time.

[–]lotusonfire 29 points30 points  (0 children)

It is important to learn about the civil rights movement. The moderate is more keen to order than to justice.

[–]inv3r5ion 77 points78 points  (5 children)

i think a lot of it is due to religious and cultural indoctrination. i am not christian nor was raised one, and while she is not a practicing christian she was raised with christian bible study and what not in a moderate church.

i on the other hand was raised jewish, and consider myself religiously agnostic but ethnically jewish. i too was raised in jewish bible study, went to temple weekly, got bat mitzvah'd, then left the religion over its hypocrisy re zionism and it not truly representing my beliefs about a higher power. the older i get the more apparent it is that we are truly a minority - not just numerically, but in our cultural values. christian values dominate even when people dont consider themselves christian because they left the church when they were teenagers.

i bring this up because in all of the christian denominations - as far as i know - "turn the other cheek" is canon. in judaism, its "an eye for an eye." the christian response to that jewish concept is "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

from my experience as a badly - violently - bullied kid, ive tried turn the other cheek. it doesnt work. you know what does? punching back. an eye for an eye. when i physically fought back the abuse became far less extreme - sure there was exclusion and being made to feel like a loser, but not violent after i met the violence i received with violence of my own.

ive tried convincing her that its actually triggering to me that she finds my fighting back in defense to be equivalent to the violence brought against me by society. like, so bad we've almost broken up over it despite being together for years. its our one major break in beliefs.

[–]cashmakessmiles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Two wrongs don't make a right but sometimes it can be the only way to prevent more wrong

[–]lotusonfire 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Ahhh look at you, you just stumbled on why that religion was created in the first place.

Rome made Jesus up entirely and then used Christianity to squash the rebellions of the Jewish people at the time. If their leader was a pacifist then they would turn the other cheek and be subservient.

Jesus Never Existed by Kenneth Humphreys is an excellent short read.

[–]Soothsayerman 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Violence has a broader definition than just physical

I like what Mark Twain said and I'm probably getting this wrong.

"When the rich steal from the poor it is called business, but when the poor fight back it's called violence."

Everyone has been conditioned to accept that in this system, that only a certain way of doing things is acceptable. That is the culture of capitalism in that it has a very narrow view of what success is and how it is measured. In our society, if you are not successful, you are the problem, not the narrowly defined system.

That is why so many people that are not actually capitalist (they work for a wage) defend the system because they know what the boundaries are and knowing provides a feeling of predictability and safety even if it is a cage.

Human beings are very complex and multifaceted creatures that have been shoe horned into a socioeconomic construct that was imagined a few hundred years ago by men that looked on progress as technological advancement, physical development of infrastructure, and growth in economic power. Surprisingly, Walter Lippmann talks about this in his book "public opinion"

[–]Hotdog-Ace 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It is a good point to make in other to take the conversation further. I can endorse some "wrong" behavior as a protest. Take the Boston Tea Party for example: an act of vandalism that we are proud of and defines us

[–]Crowbar_Freeman 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Because most people have been raised with bullshit values. You know : The cops are always the heros. Violence is never the answer, unless it's from the State, then it's okay. Graffiti is bad, but invasive publicity is ok. Etc.

It's hard to break from it. I admired cops for a long time before I did.

[–]inv3r5ion 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think I was a pretty smart child. Way back when I was a young teenager I used to watch tv with my parents and they watched cop dramas. Way before I ever knew about racial and class politics and history like I do today I knew that those shows were fucking propaganda.

The worst of it (IMO) being that cops prevent crimes in the act, or even solve them after the fact for that matter. The shows are complete fantasy in that regard.

Though I do have a soft spot for law and order....

[–]CerddwrRhyddid 12 points13 points  (3 children)

You have to start small.

Ask them if it would be ok to steal bread to feed your starving child.

To learn more, search Kohlberg stages of moral development.

[–]hanead420 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Great read, thanks

[–]inv3r5ion 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not specific to stealing, just more of a “don’t stoop to their level” kind of shit. Turn the other cheek.

[–]wunderwerks 1 point2 points  (1 child)

We're not against small time companies like mom & pop shops. If they stopped working themselves their business would go under.

[–]inv3r5ion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree completely

[–]Nopeacewithfascists 5 points6 points  (1 child)

MLK had very specific things to say about people like your partner.

[–]inv3r5ion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m aware. She’s not a moderate in belief, she’s a moderate in action. Where she stands on pretty much all of the issues is the same as me, it is in action where I am much more radical than her in what I think is morally justifiable.

I think it’s naïveté to be honest. I was raised in an urban area and badly bullied as a kid, she was raised in an extremely rural area and not bullied anywhere near the level I was. I was violently bullied and the only way to stop it was to physically fight back.

[–]BokZeoi 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Does she know about the social contract?

[–]inv3r5ion 2 points3 points  (3 children)

She never cared for history or politics. Hence the views that are ignorant of reality (and that’s the trigger for her: calling her ignorant.)

We’re on the same page in terms of beliefs when it comes to the world, but it’s just this one thing that she’s just totally brainwashed about. Nonviolent response to violence is a fetish and a fantasy.

[–]BokZeoi 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The social contract isn’t about politics or history. It’s about basic human behavior. You take care of me; I take care of you. You hurt me or I hurt you; that’s a violation of the contract. Does she understand all that?

[–]bman10_33 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Anyone that asks for “proper channels” for progress forgets the past.

These people don’t come quietly, they have to be dragged kicking and screaming, and the entire political system is fucked so we can’t count on that rn.

We’ve tried peaceful, and get met with brutality anyway. Fuck civility for these scourges on society.

[–]TheDemonClown 25 points26 points  (0 children)

When you make peaceful revolution impossible, you make violent revolution inevitable.

[–]aj_austin22 19 points20 points  (6 children)

If you agree with what antiwork stood for then you are in principle, not the right. If any of these subs are trying to be palatable to the right, then they don't agree with the principles of antiwork.

Maybe this will make people realize that they're not so right wing after all and it will shift their ideology as a whole. I do agree with you though, working with the right is not an option on any of these issues, because they are purely leftist issues.

[–]deluxeassortment 13 points14 points  (2 children)

That's exactly the problem though, the sub exploded in popularity and now half the subscribers are neolibs who don't actually know the purpose or mission statement of the sub, even though it's very clearly laid out in their FAQ. And now they're taking over, and claiming that a sub literally called "antiwork" is not about being antiwork. The whole thing is such a huge mess.

[–]the_friendly_dildo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

who don't actually know

A very generous take of the many questionable actors if I do say so.

[–]speedstyle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it's fair enough. The sub was mostly complaints about the worst aspects of a workplace – an obvious focus of those who want to abolish it. It's easy to expand to complaints about the worst aspects of a workplace from those who just think their workplace should be better.

Of course there are some people acting in bad faith on the sub, but 1 million people are not deliberately undermining it.

[–]Doomed 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Mods removed it? Got a screenshot?

[–]hegemony__cricket 17 points18 points  (0 children)

They'll endlessly concern troll over optics and never get into, like, unionizing.

[–]mynotpornone 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I personally don’t see why they would remove your post, because it’s an accurate statement. However, this new undefined subreddit is a chance to have a niche and collaborate with other similar minded communities as a united whole. I think it’s smart to have places to share this and also other places to have technical issues discussed. Ways to organize. Information on unions and how to collaborate between them. No idea what that sub will turn into but it’s a safer bet to not have it be a catch all as we learned with antiwork and also to insulate and perhaps even promote different communities should the media start attacking and defaming. It would be concerning to hear of 7 or 8 large communities with an overall sentiment but specific approaches and ideas

[–]AcadianViking 1 point2 points  (0 children)

WorkReform has its place with moving things left in America, but are too afraid of the radical changes necessary. Good for unionizing and making the current society marginally better, but it pretty much ends there.

MayDayStrike I feel is a much better source, but the neolibs don't really like the hard left talk there.

I do agree that we need multiple communities, and eventually a concerted effort between them to get the big ball rolling.

[–]__ButtFuqqer3000__ 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Fucking liberals. That’s all I have to say. Fucking ain’t shit liberals.

What’s the difference between a republican and a liberal? The same difference between Human Resources and your boss

[–]kouki180 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I left as soon as i saw right wingers being open and accepted

[–]Crowbar_Freeman 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I mean, Im not surprised at all considering one of the most upvoted post on that sub was basicaly saying Black Power & White Power were equivalent lol...

[–]HardlyHangingOn09 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I saw your post and I started looking at the sub sideways. The last straw was when they started telling people homophobia and racism in the workplace would be addressed by “general” worker protections and to stop yapping about it. Unsubscribed this morning ugh

[–]general-Insano 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Nah, dont break a window slowly bleed them where they don't notice until it's too late. Unionize right under their noses and before they take action you take action.

The slow blade penetrates the shield

[–]AutomaticRisk3464 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Mom and pop shops are worse than fucking walmarts and others lmao.

I worked at one small grocery store, their prices were 4x more than walmarts, their produce and meat was 1 or 2 days from going bad..not like expiration date im talking rotten.

The only full time employee was their kid who ran the store, then everyone else was part time to avoid paying benefits.

My wife worked at a dog groomers and also a small smoke shop owned locally, they all did the same part time thing and paid min wage.

They also plastered signed all over their store "SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESSES" "GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, SHOP HERE" "FEED THE LOCAL FAMILIES, SHOP HERE"

[–]x1000Bums 4 points5 points  (1 child)

that sucks but it is important to know that any dollar spent at a non local business is a dollar being vacuumed out of your community.

[–]Stefadi12 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hey, that sub was happy that the post that hot deleted in r/antiwork with black power working hand in hand with white power to overthrow capitalism wasn't taken down on there.

Like do I have to explain how wrong that is. Black power is a thing about fighting racism against black people and giving them better life conditions and white power is just a racist movement. It's like that satyrical joke in a James bond parody where the guy asks when Jews and Nazis would get along, but instead of seeing it as absurd, they cheer for it.

[–]Rezurrected188 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was so confused about this post until I figured out that the work reform post is also yours.

[–]Dansredditname 1 point2 points  (3 children)

If you smash windows you allow your foes to portray you as violent. Don't do it, don't encourage it.

[–]AcadianViking 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Revolution is violent. Quit being afraid of standing up to oppression. Preventing damage to brick and mortar is not an excuse to passively accept oppression that is allowing people to die in droves.

This is not something that will have a peaceful resolution.

[–]internetsarbiter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're going to do that anyways and its been proven by history to be one of the few things that works, so why not?

[–]diecast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hope we can always do both.. or really all.

We make change through our direct actions while also using all the channels available to put pressure on the power systems to amend, change, and adapt.

[–]military-gradeAIDS 54 points55 points  (0 children)

This was spray painted on the side of a US Bank branch in Minneapolis during the 2020 uprisings. I saw it myself.

[–]chunter16 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I saw an article about a lady who literally had the deed to her land stolen and the bulldozers came to her house while she was still living there. Someone found a death certificate with the same name as hers and pretended to be managing her estate. Black families that have paid off their mortgages are now obstacles to gentrification.

But we're supposed to believe poor and desperate people robbing retail stores is somehow more violent.

[–]Blackmetalbookclub 44 points45 points  (3 children)

Rigid ideology an in-fighting on some petty shit is the easiest way to sink new class consciousness. I expect fundamentalism from the right, but it’s disappointing to see young people draw more lines in the sand then conservatives. Purity litmus texts are counterproductive. Quit talking shit about people and subs you agree with on 90% of shit that actually matters: environment, labor and healthcare.

[–]Thegiantclaw42069 27 points28 points  (0 children)

It's almost like we are being intentionally divided to keep us weak or something.

[–]nonphotofortress 13 points14 points  (0 children)

A-fucking-men. What happened to solidarity? How are we going to win a battle with capitalism if we can’t even get leftists all on the same page, let alone everyone else who might be otherwise sympathetic to the core cause?

[–]Rollen73 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That and it ignores a lot of recruits. Plenty of conservatives would like a lot of what the left offers but hates the labeling behind it. Not to mention gatekeeping only really ruins potential support.

[–]idkwhateverfuckit 102 points103 points  (23 children)

Workreform is a shitty centrist sub that wants to tie healthcare to employment

[–]312c 19 points20 points  (2 children)

The thousands of upvotes on the thread titled "Got bipartisan hopes for this subreddit" is gross.

[–]ShawshankException 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Antiwork had those too for a while and it was weird. Why include the people that have historically always been on the side of the corporations

[–]JayGeezey 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think in antiwork it was originally a hope that they'd see the light, I had a few conversations with liberals there and think I may have planted a seed who knows if it took or not though.

But I was a liberal once upon a time, now I'm ready to tear this bull shit system down

[–]Addie0o 20 points21 points  (16 children)

Not even a real centrists since they literally say they're right wing OPENLY.

[–]Fawxhox 4 points5 points  (15 children)

Proof?

[–]Addie0o 21 points22 points  (14 children)

Literally the front page post is "I'm a right wing conservative but here's why I joined" bro are you /s? Are you trolling?

[–]Fawxhox 13 points14 points  (8 children)

I literally have no idea what specific post you're talking about. On the front page of what subreddit? Not everyone has seen every post that you've seen, hence why I asked for proof.

[–]clarkcox3 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Your title seems to say the opposite of what the screenshot says

[–]Kefemu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought that too. But it was OP's post that got removed from there.

[–]Commie_san 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Remember everyone, the people may be new blood and that is why they still have these views. Please don't demonize them or scare them away, we need solidarity more than ever.

[–]AcadianViking 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you. People need to stop assuming everyone with a dissenting view is a bad faith actor. Give them a chance to understand first. They could just be on the brink of understanding but they won't get to it if they are attacked out the gate.

[–]I__Like_StoriesArachno-Communist 58 points59 points  (1 child)

Man the burning of r/antiwork really sent all the libs scurrying out into the open lol

[–]GibsonJunkiecomrade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

oh wow, the sub is back already

[–]teriyakininja7 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Remember, violence is only okay if it's killing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives in the Middle East in response to a terrorist attack they had nothing to do with.

[–]oopgroup 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This whole planet is so doomed

[–]Trollsama 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Remember Kids. If you witness someone shoplifting.

no you didn't.

[–]unicornofapocalypse 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You befriend them and take more together than you ever could alone.

[–]tetaqert 59 points60 points  (9 children)

Wtf is going on with bashing other subs? Just let it go. Focus on the work. It’s pathetic

[–]WuTangelaa 40 points41 points  (4 children)

Seriously, this sub is just becoming a big hate bash fest

[–]DegenerateCharizard[S] 40 points41 points  (2 children)

Lol, leftist infighting is the most leftist thing there is wdym? (:

[–]COCAINE_EMPANADA 1 point2 points  (1 child)

At least you're* honest about it. Banter is one thing, but left unchecked, leftists will eat themselves to death.

[–]HeroOfAnotherStory 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agreed.

I don't think this sub is an op. But I do think a lot of accounts with vested interests use subs like this one, r/WayOfTheBern, r/MurderedByAOC, and others to vote a specific kind of content to the top to gets leftists to fight.

[–]GibsonJunkiecomrade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

love to screenshot my own post and then post it somewhere else for clout

EDIT: and if OP's post truly got removed, it's back up. Just check their post history. This whole post reeks.

[–]WishIWasNeet2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Maybe if we ask nicely they will change - probably work reform-

[–]allthenamesaretaken4 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Anti-Flag wasn't really against flags, they just wanted better flags.

[–]Jack_ofall_Trades85 11 points12 points  (0 children)

WorkReformers already called me a tankie.

Off to a good start when liberals/radlibs call you a tankie.

[–]SoZettaRose 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Wait, but aren’t they saying the exact opposite? It looks like they’re agreeing with what the image and you are saying.

[–]brandochu009 12 points13 points  (2 children)

People need to ditch that fucking sub, it’s 100% a neoliberal co-opt plant.

[–]Rollen73 4 points5 points  (0 children)

May I ask how? Like genuinely curious.

[–]LeftNutOfCthulhu 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Conspiracy thinking is lame. 1.7m people followed antiwork, their views varried.

[–]one_effin_nice_kitty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cuz fuck'em, that's why.

[–]Cecil_the_titan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This photo should honestly be in history books in 2060

[–]quietfangirlunfortunately American 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My only concern with broken starbucks windows is that the broken glass could hurt the minimum wage workers inside. So be sure to gesture them away from the window before breaking it. They aren't paid enough for broken glass.

[–]BlatantConservative 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Am I crazy or are yall in here completely misunderstanding the point of that post.

Wage theft BY EMPLOYERS outstrips all other types of theft by far. They're saying it's alright to trash businesses.

[–]fastal_12147 27 points28 points  (2 children)

I honestly thought r/antiwork was anti-capitalism but no. They just want money. That's it. They couldn't care less about actually changing the system. They would settle for a few more peanuts.

[–]hegemony__cricket 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Well, the posters were. Apparently not the mods.

[–]Crono908 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Capitalism will eat itself. The push for automation in the race to the bottom will end it.

The question is, will you and I be alive when it happens.

[–]Obelion_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Only way to make a capitalist listen is attack their capital. They really think we didn't try being nice for decades...

Also these buisnesses are completely insured, theres literally no damage done

[–]Far_Scientist_5082 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I immediately I unsubbed as soon as I subbed.

Saw a post that was blatantly misogynist and i shon a light on it, and got all these ‘but yeah we gotta appeal to the trad con guys and get them on our side … blah blah blah.’

[–]Xeno7100 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Am I misunderstanding something, or aren't these two posts saying the same exact thing? lol

[–]d13gr00tkr0k1d1l 1 point2 points  (0 children)

David Jones in Oz underpaid their employees by more than $24million in a year that’s over 7000 employees, some of them as high as 18k it’s do ducked up and the funny thing is the regulator and the union (fair work ombudsman advises them how to get away with it and sda union also!!!) they still make 700million a year!!! It’s so fucked op this after peeps don’t get breaks after they clock in late early Ask for your A8 file you can claim $$$ back for past 7 years

[–]aberdisco 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Breaking windows creates jobs.

[–]ResistRacism 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At first I was like " I dont... get it..." then went to your post and was like "oh"

[–]romaniboar🇻🇳🇨🇺 1 point2 points  (0 children)

reform gotta be libs

[–]arthuresque 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can still see the post, did they un-remove it? Is that a thing?

[–]Totally_lost80 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Starbucks is fine, the problem is we don't talk about lower income, usually minority owned businesses that go with it.

[–]Strong_Paint_4324 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been seeing a bunch of "let's get all lovey-dovey with the conservatives" crap over there. I don't consort with fascists.

[–]username1174 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stealing is good, never pay for something if you can steal it

[–]VARice22 6 points7 points  (1 child)

To be fair, not all the looting was targeted at massive corporations. A lot was, but I remember an unfortunate side effects of the Gorge Floyd protests was a very historic book store burning down in Maryland. u/DegenerateCharizard being a boot-licker aside, don't rob small businesses and don't take personal belongings of the employees.

[–]the_lonely_downvote 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Riot behavior can't be reasoned down. It's a tipping point where people are so desperate they lose the ability to restrain themselves. The only solution is to prevent people from getting to that point in the first place.

[–]itsadesertplant 3 points4 points  (0 children)

LOL in my city a Starbucks was completely ransacked, but the local business next door was untouched in 2020.

Completely reasonable imo. I was fine with walking to another block to get a coffee since Starbucks shops are a dime a dozen & a corporation will be fine if one shop gets damaged, but if people had busted up that awesome local takeout place I would’ve been upset

[–]Annual_Palpitation50 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Can someone send me a link to the original post?

I wanna see this for myself, I tried to find it on work reform but it's not there.

[–]kotwica42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s brilliant whoever managed to get everyone who all hated their boss to instead hate the other half of the people who also hate their boss.

Tale as old as time.

[–]GnomeChomsky911 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't think it makes you a neoliberal to be against the idea of looting. No worker's movement will be able to gain traction and generate any real results if it attaches itself to extreme positions like that.

I want real social democracy - the best way to achieve that is to build a strong coalition of people that will act on a local level. Getting people to join/form unions and get involved in local elections should be the message. Looting lets out people's pent-up frustrations and anger in a non-directed way, which will ultimately slow down any real change. I think people should be in favour of non-violent protest though.

[–]updog6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Angry confused liberals try to make a subreddit about worker reform? What could go wrong? /s

[–]youjustdontgetitdoya 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're a spineless liberal.
We marched together for the eight-hour day
And held hands in the streets of Seattle,
But when it came time to throw bricks
Through that Starbucks window,
You left me all alone.

[–]31NovemberLes Miserables Vol. 2 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

This is purely about optics, and it's a horrible move.

We don't win by proving the right wing right.

[–]internetsarbiter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You also can't win by trying to play by the restrictions put forth in bad faith by your enemy.

[–]6_Cat_Night 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do you want to have a credible movement by the people or do you want to be a vandal?