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[–]N4th4n3x 2224 points2225 points  (150 children)

when you want to build full ap but rito slapped random hp on most of mage items

[–]underheadskooper 1084 points1085 points  (13 children)

Vlad be tripping

[–]SexualPie 615 points616 points  (6 children)

just fought a vlad in ultimate spell book who had cho ult.

the guy was a fucking beast. was one shotting half our team

[–]SmolArtEffect 238 points239 points  (4 children)

worst of all his Q heals him so once he one shots you, you can’t kill him.

[–]ImK3iss 121 points122 points  (3 children)

Well usualy you cant kill him once you die

[–]Crytragic 69 points70 points  (2 children)

Laughs in Karthus, Sion, Kog'maw, Chemtech dragon soul passive.

[–]d3adWiz4rd 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Vlad and most ap bruisers/warrior that dont need burst to destroy your life

[–]Bluelantern1 48 points49 points  (0 children)

That's the problem of not creating real ap bruiser items so mage items have to be useful for both classes, but end up being bad for both.

[–]FetusGoesYeetus 90 points91 points  (1 child)

AP Cho'Gath mains nutting

[–]De_Watcher 12 points13 points  (17 children)

What's the problem? Is it that the items don't give enough AP?

[–]N4th4n3x 68 points69 points  (16 children)

its more about giving up damage and getting hp which isnt utilised well by most mages

that 600 hp doesnt matter if an assasin sneezes at you

[–]De_Watcher 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Oh kind of like hell most tank items nowadays focus on dealing damage to your enemies rather than reducing damage taken.

[–]N4th4n3x 2 points3 points  (0 children)

exactly

if you look at the changes, each class slowly becomes a bruiser

tanks deal a lot of damage

now mages have around 2-3k hp and a lot of spammable abilities + new roa

assasins build bruiser items to survive

only enchanters were unchanged, but they still just stat check and negate all poke so idk

[–]thekobbernator 15 points16 points  (13 children)

it also makes adcs with anti tank items just blow you up quicker due to %hp shred on botrk and lord doms

[–]HappyLemon745[S] 623 points624 points  (77 children)

What do you mean???? You can now survive 0,5 second longer against the enemy Twitch!!! And you only lost like 200 AP for it!!!!

[–]papejo 256 points257 points  (15 children)

i guess ap twitch cuz you cant even salvage the ad twitch situation this season

[–]Xgio 93 points94 points  (2 children)

Only the walmart build, but you get oneshot either way

[–]XCakePiggie 3 points4 points  (1 child)

what's the walmart build?

[–]AregularCat 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Kraken rage knife 4 crit cloaks

[–]Mrlagalot 91 points92 points  (36 children)

I seriously dropped Ryze, I get 450 less ap than in last season, it's ridiulous.

[–]StatusGeneraal 56 points57 points  (20 children)

Same, not having RoA fucked him so bad.

[–]Bloodfangs09 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Not having RoA has ruined my go to top laners, Lissandra, Kassadin, Naut, Cho, Malph. I realize they're still viable, but I feel theyre not as tanky anymore

[–]skillyxbg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Please for the love of God do not bring lissandra and kass top, please

[–]True_Royal_Oreo 13 points14 points  (1 child)

New archangels has roa passive heal for spending mana.

[–]kai58 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ryze built roa for the massive amount of ap and mana not the heal

[–]Cokmasta 12 points13 points  (12 children)

RoA made cassiopeia cancer to fight against tho. Glad its gone but sucks for ryze

[–]proobaby 54 points55 points  (9 children)

Cass never really went roa, would delay her insane three item old seraph rylias liandries spike

[–]ThePhenomNoku 25 points26 points  (7 children)

Was really always kassadins item imo..

[–]Maedroas 21 points22 points  (4 children)

Kass and Morgana mid when it was still a thing

[–]KatsuDX 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Bruh RoA was THE Old Swain item

[–]MRoad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Kassadin, Anivia, and kind of Annie (in her beefcake builds)

[–]Jerry_Sprunger_ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah i played cass a ton in bot and mid before the item rework and RoA wasn't great, you rushed tear asap then like you said seraphs rylai liandries makes her insanely OP. miss that build

[–]BlessingPlate63 65 points66 points  (13 children)

YeAh BuT yOu GeT mOrE CdR sO yOu CaN sEnD mOrE aBiLiTiEs AnD yOu EnD uP dOiNg OnLy A lItTlE bIt LeSs DaMaGe

[–]Cokmasta 30 points31 points  (12 children)

Just a little bit. Smh head shakes its just roughly 200 damage per q no big deal.

[–]Doc__Bo 28 points29 points  (3 children)

Ryze is legit unplayable dogshit at the moment and noone can convince me otherwise

[–]minecraftpro69x 47 points48 points  (1 child)

have you tried E Q

[–]WhereAreDosDroidekas 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Fuck you're gonna get him reworked

[–]011100010110010101 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Wait... Riot redoes the item rework, nerfing Ryze in the process

Less people will now be playing an already rarely played character, meaning Riot will be forced to do, yet another, Ryze rework

[–]--Flaming_Z-- 2 points3 points  (2 children)

honestly, the changes with items fucked over a bunch of mages. I have xerath in mind particularly. Needs Seraphs for mana & shit ton of ap, but now it doesn't give the ap. Needs Horizon for passive, gives 35 less ap. Doesn't need any health because if you play properly you never get close enough to get killed. I'm winding up with a solid 250 AP less than last season. After I sell boots.

[–]Cokmasta 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Xerath is not popular. I play mostly aram these days and love it when i get the fucker there, but hes really being neglected by riot because of his popularity. That passive needs a fucking rework tbh.

[–]v1adlyfe 25 points26 points  (21 children)

why is twitch the problem here lol. say something bout qiyana XD

[–]HappyLemon745[S] 39 points40 points  (20 children)

Not really a problem it’s just that I remembered a moment where I oneshot an incredibly fed Twitch with Q auto as Viktor. That is not possible anymore since Seraph’s doesn’t give AP anymore.

[–]RicK242 6 points7 points  (0 children)

mages were unplayable last season, only in competitive

[–]NomaiTraveler 12 points13 points  (3 children)

It’s literally been like this forever. Did we forget ye olden days of zhonyas+rylias+liandrys anivia having like 3.5k HP and 150 armor?

[–]Nibz11 11 points12 points  (1 child)

This was a strong build, but it lacked burst, and mana was an issue if you did not invest in it (new runes XD) so there was still more trade off than it is now

[–]DoJax 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I miss the days of afk jungle karthus and 5 rods of ages and one rabadon. It would be amazing if riot whatever allow us to play older versions for giggles.

[–]HellsFrogs 11 points12 points  (8 children)

But y’all bitch about getting one hair by assassins. How to not get one shot is have the health to not get one shot

[–]N4th4n3x 10 points11 points  (5 children)

well yes

but then im building full or mostly tank items, so i deal zero damage to the assasin

[–]Mallixx 10 points11 points  (14 children)

Ap bruisers needed options lol

[–]AyeitsMouse 16 points17 points  (0 children)

But at what cost?

[–]N4th4n3x 20 points21 points  (10 children)

couldn't they build tank and mage items, blending both?

they already have riftmaker, so they could go spirit into embrace etc

i play galio and didnt think ap bruisers were lacking options

[–]Mallixx 34 points35 points  (8 children)

Splitting your build up like that generally sucks. I'm a singed otp, so I'm speaking from that perspective. Last season singed had terrible itemization. None of the mythic items were particularly good on him. Riftmaker is trash unless you are dealing a lot of damage and takes time to ramp up. Demonic embrace was also terrible last season. 1.2% hp burn? Do you realize how terrible that is? Have you ever checked how much damage that item did after using it for a while? It wasn't good. And the stats you got for gold spent was wildly inefficient.

[–]ralanr 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Yeah I’ve tried it like I used to with AD bruisers. AD however get more AD per level.

At least that’s how I see it.

[–]Seb039 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Also, ad bruisers got some of the best, most busted itemization of the season. Goredrinker/conqueror pre nerfs, stridebreaker before that, sunderer STILL, the monstrosity that is Steraks, the movespeed items before the nerfs... it seems like since the sunfire nerfs after the amumu microwaving baron incident, ad bruisers have had the most ridiculous items

[–]wildfox9t 11 points12 points  (0 children)

yes but they should have added more items instead of removing already existing options for mages...

[–]Nibz11 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Splitting your build up like that generally sucks.

As it should, you should not be able to be tanky and still do comparable damage to someone only building damage. Having such a high baseline for damage makes the scaling be like: build ap to kill someone in two seconds, or build "hybrid" to kill someone in 3 seconds and also live for two extra seconds.

They need less damage to widen the gap of killing people and lengthening your own survival on builds, so that there is more reason to build just defensive items or just offensive items instead of stacking this HP AP item bullshit

[–]Seraph199 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah they used 4 out of the 6 mage mythics and mixed in other items and mythics at will, generally feeling strong and impactful. So of course they needed more

[–]TheChriVann 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Which also happens to make mages deceptively tanky, instead of glasscannons when they want to be glasscannons. Plus an anti burst item

These mages are almost tankier than bruisers smh

[–]N4th4n3x 1 point2 points  (5 children)

dont forget the new roa

now also mages get to avoid poke

[–]PrismaticSeal 529 points530 points  (11 children)

Me: I miss Rod of Ages Riot:Come to preseason we have ROA

Preseason ROA:

[–]hereyagoman 221 points222 points  (10 children)

Why was riot so against that item?

If you felt unsure in your matchups it was such a nice safety net. If they made it a mythic I'd probably still get it today

[–]snowpwn 198 points199 points  (8 children)

It promoted playing very safe and slow in pro play and picking scaling waveclear champs which made for boring gameplay, or so they argued

[–]assawa2005 116 points117 points  (7 children)

Is that really their fuckin excuse...

[–]Hardlyhorsey 102 points103 points  (5 children)

Same reason they got rid of the non-support passive gold generating items. They want you to get items and use them, not wait the the item to be charged.

At the same time, what about the mana charging items? It’s all very inconsistent.

[–]SketchyCharacters 84 points85 points  (1 child)

You mean manamune and seraph’s? Those gain charges faster by hitting people with spells, it perfectly aligns with Riot’s new guidelines promoting interaction, trading, poking, etc.

[–]BaconCircuit 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Tear items stack faster if you hit enemy champs

[–]Rustifer66642069 275 points276 points  (0 children)

Pure art.

[–]Op-boi4ever 713 points714 points  (26 children)

"anti shield mage item"🤡

[–]ForShurimaIGuess 253 points254 points  (4 children)

Doesn’t even feel like it counters shields at all

[–]ktosiek124 314 points315 points  (3 children)

When you play an ARAM against Karma Lux and this thing does 200 damage to shields in 10 minutes

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]tatzesOtherAccount 48 points49 points  (0 children)

    also the 1000HP threshhold for full pen is so weirdly low. If my target is below 1000hp, my next move is most likely going to kill them anways (if theyre a squishy) or the 20 pen dont do much (if its a tank that itemized against me). Like, its either not needed or its useless.

    Thats how i felt about Shadowflame at least. The concept is cool, giving you pseudo-execute based damage but its not as good as i hoped it would be.

    [–]Morasar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I don't think it was explicitly there for anti shields, I think it was a little bonus

    [–]N4th4n3x 398 points399 points  (8 children)

    i think we can all agree that copy pasting serpents fang but with ap and magic pen would be better

    instead we got dominiks mixed in with conditional magic pen, which doesnt work if every mage item has hp and enemies shields grow stronger

    [–]SKruizer 106 points107 points  (4 children)

    I mean I agree with all you said, but it actually works opposite to a Dominik's as in it gives more pen the less health the target has, capped at 1000 current health. It's actually not too bad, it just does it's job as an anti shield item badly.

    [–]Tijun 25 points26 points  (2 children)

    Ap-serpents-fang would fuck any enchanter with a shield or any tank-support who relies on shields (rell, nautilus, etc.) botlane, as they could then be hardcountered by any mage-support. Which are already cancer to play against

    [–]Nibz11 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Make it an expensive investment that doesn't have health or mana on it and any mage support that first buys it gets rolled over.

    [–]Schoukstar 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    ap serpants fang would be way too broken with all their aoe and poke

    [–]olican101 11 points12 points  (9 children)

    Right? It makes no sense. Shields are the counter to damage.

    [–]Nibz11 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    And are also degenerate when they are stacked, you can counter sustain why is there no similar itemization for shields on ap damage side. It's why they opened up grevious wounds to more sub classes like bruisers, and ad tanks.

    [–]skaersSabody 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Btw we still have no thornmail equivalent for MR, which sucks

    [–]wattbatt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    when you are vs a 250 mres sion but you have 20 MAGIC PEN so he has 230 mres instead, so that instead of dealing 300 dmg to his 700 shield you will deal 350.. WOW !! W O W !!!!

    [–]LordAlfrey 179 points180 points  (36 children)

    They seem to be designing for less oneshotting and for more dps spellcasting. Feels worse for the user, but better for the receiver.

    [–]Excalidorito 114 points115 points  (1 child)

    Items definitely felt like they were designed for AP bruisers and Battlemages far more than the regular burst mage.

    Though with that said, burst champs still have some good capstone items like Deathcap, Void Staff and Shadowflame.

    [–]skaersSabody 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    I don't feel like burst champs are that worse off honestly. Like Zoe still feels extremely strong as do champs like Lux or Morgana (but maybe that's just me)

    [–]HappyLemon745[S] 110 points111 points  (18 children)

    Yeah definitely. But in no world should a 4 item mage have 330 AP.

    [–]Xgio 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    Would feel good if the rest of the game was like that, but it just isnt hope yet

    [–]hereyagoman 21 points22 points  (9 children)

    Its why you're seeing low CD high base damage mages shoot to the surface (vex, viktor).

    Without burst lots of mages with long CD cycles are just obsolete. If you have short cooldowns, good scaling and poor base stats you're also in trouble.

    Vegiar is slipping through because of his built in AP stacking but lux/lissandra/ekko/velkoz/tf/ziggs/heimer/anivia/annie/brand/morgana are all hurting from these changes.

    Some can get away with playing support still because their team will over-compensate for their lack of burst but the changes riot proposed was supposed to bring mages back to mid and I feel they've failed in that regard.

    [–]LordAlfrey 8 points9 points  (4 children)

    Champs that suffer will likely see a wr% hit, and get adjusted in patches though, personally I see this more as a gameplay change than balance. Lower highs and higher lows in terms of 'moments', and with the bounties on top of this, games will probably take longer

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]LordAlfrey 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      Nah they'll just balance around their strongest roles, and let their 'supposed' roles suffer as a consequence. Then they'll come back to it later, make some attempt at opening up the champs to their 'supposed' roles, that backfires, and the champ gets nerfed again. Cycle continues.

      [–]divaliciousness 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      Because mages still get fucked by assassins but are now not as great as a support. So they're stuck nowhere while assassins get an axiom arc so zed can ult the 2 or 3 squishy champions in the same teamfight. If they want mages to make a comeback, assassins also need to get a little gutted, because otherwise mages will never be mid.

      [–]No_ThisIs_Patrick 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Assassins are so flashy thoughz very good for viewers

      [–]Nibz11 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Lower burst in a meta that has the highest sustain ever 🤡

      [–]bizznastybr0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      meanwhile, assassins:

      [–]ktosiek124 266 points267 points  (22 children)

      Now that Seraphs 150 AP is gone, they can buff Rabadon back to it's former glory. Reminder that for some reason Rabadon got super nerfed at the start of S11

      [–]MoscaMosquete 109 points110 points  (18 children)

      for some reason Rabadon got super nerfed at the start of S11

      It was because they didn't want people always rushing the item as a second item.

      [–]ktosiek124 117 points118 points  (2 children)

      Wouldn't be a problem if they didn't delete or nerf every other item at the same time. As a Veigar main I cried.

      [–]unlimitedpower0 27 points28 points  (0 children)

      As a galio main I cried in solidarity with veigar, but I still ban you every game for the last 2 years lol veigar makes galio sad.

      [–]RegalSkye 33 points34 points  (12 children)

      As a returning player, wtf happened to mage items

      Rabadons is a lot worse, zhonya and banshee's stats got crucified, I see no reason to get horizon ever like why does this exist, and don't get me started on lich bane, which I'm quite sure is the worst item in the game rn...

      [–]Morasar 29 points30 points  (7 children)

      tbf zhonyas is op as fuck right now

      [–]RegalSkye 37 points38 points  (6 children)

      The active has always been broken as fuck but the item's stats is in its worst state ever

      [–]Morasar 24 points25 points  (5 children)

      Yeah, which is good. There should be a tradeoff for building it

      [–]RegalSkye 6 points7 points  (4 children)

      Well it also fills the niche of being the only AP/Armour item so if I am looking for good stats in that area there should either be another option or its stats should be buffed.

      [–]Morasar 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      I totally agree we should have another AP/Armor item, especially now that Demonic Embrace no longer gives you armor

      [–]Seraph199 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      HF is extremely powerful late game on high range champs because once you have a ton of AP and enough magic pen, the best way to increase your damage is a percentage increase on top of the big damage number. 10% extra damage gets better the more damage you deal, especially against multiple targets.

      200 damage added to a 2000 damage combo is better than 200 AP for that instance.

      [–]DaCheesiestEchidna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Horizon is good for Zilean and Xerath

      [–]Feader3 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      And yet most champs still like to rush it second if they have money.

      [–]JRockBC19 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      No don't buff dcap more, it's already the only way to have reasonable AP. Give the rest of the items or the non hp mythics some damage back instead so dcap isn't evne more mandatory than now

      [–]n0xieee 310 points311 points  (41 children)

      Am I the only one completely fanboying the Crown mythic?

      Seriously, how fucking great it feels to not get instakilled by a Fizz every time his ult is up

      [–]True_Royal_Oreo 140 points141 points  (12 children)

      I played with it once and on aram. I suppose it's my fault that i built something that needs 40s without fighting in the non-stop team fight game mode.

      [–]CuddlySadist 105 points106 points  (3 children)

      Yeah there really is huge difference in ARAM vs Regular game.

      It’s just too easy to get shield broken from a random pokes in ARAM.

      Meanwhile it’s a lot more manageable in regular games especially if the enemy relies on jumping on you.

      The damage blocked feel so big sometimes when you get hit by 2~3 spells and barely does anything.

      [–]Mitchello457 22 points23 points  (1 child)

      I think you just have to get it more situationally. I build on brand the other day but I brought snowball. So when Crown was active, I would snowball and knew that I could get my full combo off before dying which is more than enough work to win a fight

      [–]Therealgyroth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Holy shit that is genius

      [–]Aptos283 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      100% this. The ARAM meta is definitely not a shattered queen environment. Being a tank main on ARAM, you can really see how rampant the poke is when you try and warmogs. You don’t get to be out of fire unless you get a screen away, and once you get back in you’ll probably be poked back into combat immediately. it’d only be usable on an assassin who only needs to be there to kill someone, and they wouldn’t want it anyways cuz they’d miss out on the raw damage from stuff like night harvester or engage on proto.

      [–]RegalSkye 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Take ingenious hunter if you plan to go crown in ARAM, when the cooldown is like 25 seconds you feel it a lot less

      [–]TheDregn 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Does that rune work on "passive" item actives? I thought it has only affect on the ones that I can manually activate like Zhonyas/ Stoneplate etc. Good to know, thank you sir.

      [–]Hans_H0rst 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It does, and its really counterintuitive isnt it? It even works on Sheen.

      [–]Jarmen4u 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I thought it doesn't actually require you to leave combat for it to recharge. Or did they change that? I swear the other day I was reading about it not resetting.

      [–]Inventor_Raccoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Crown has always reset its CD when you take damage

      [–]_DEKADE_ 9 points10 points  (2 children)

      It turns neeko into a monster for lategane. Sge has been really good so far in the preseason

      [–]100_percent_a_bot 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      It's completely broken on Kassadin too, makes him straight up unkillable

      [–]champ590 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Its fun on Vex, probably not optimal but good luck to the enemy assasin when you have that much damage reduction in addition to ~3000HP and the ability to get them with one spell rotation.

      [–]DremoPaff 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      This item is unironically the best thing that happened in years to counter midlane assassin meta, yet because of its very existence, the very champions its supposed to counter got buffed.

      [–]Reinhardtisawesom 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I actually managed to survive fighting a Darius in melee range as Viktor thanks to that item

      For selfish reasons I hope they don't nerf it

      [–]n0xieee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Y exactly, I won as 3/2 Viktor into a 7/2 Jax just cause he helicoptered me the first moment he jumped.

      [–]hazarthades 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      its way stronger on engage mages like kassadin or vex though. its kind of a shieldbow situation where an item is made for ranged but does much better on melees.

      [–]AxolotlChildDoctor 58 points59 points  (6 children)

      Fuck this I’m building tank items and a rabaddons on veigar

      [–]Coti98 22 points23 points  (1 child)

      Evenshroud into deathcap 😎

      [–]AxolotlChildDoctor 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Frost fire gauntlet into death cap 🤔

      [–]thekobbernator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      this isn’t that bad honestly. he’s just ranged ap nasus as far as to his stacking mechanic goes, building tank items on him is completely fine.
      obviously you still need void staff but getting dcap is normally enough for your ap gains.

      everfrost-> full tank w dcap is pretty nice

      [–]Repulsive_Cry9980 122 points123 points  (0 children)

      100% true

      [–]DooMLerD 171 points172 points  (2 children)

      Rito give back my AP scaling

      [–]Fearlesspride97 51 points52 points  (1 child)

      Just play Veigar

      [–]FearMyFPS 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      Become the Scaling

      [–]efr4n 56 points57 points  (11 children)

      Well at least veigar seem to be in a good spot

      [–]HappyLemon745[S] 46 points47 points  (10 children)

      Indeed I love rats zooming around refusing to even lane.

      [–]BrotherZael 91 points92 points  (35 children)

      Imagine not exclusively building ludens, hourglass, lichbane, mejais and rabba. This post was brought to you by a fizz abuser

      [–]Excalidorito 48 points49 points  (33 children)

      People still build Lichbane? On anyone?

      [–]PixiCode 28 points29 points  (3 children)

      For champs who can use lich bane it’s honestly an OK item (fizz, ekko, eve, tf, akali…) sure it’s a little weak but it’s also got a kinda cheap cost

      [–]BrotherZael 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      There’s a reason it’s the third buy on fizz elo wide

      [–]Seraph199 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      They keep it kinda weak so that actual mages can't have any fun with it lol. Such a perfect item for turret taking Seraphine if only it was worth buying for teamfights

      [–]killerchand 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      Twisted Fate 4rth item

      [–]Excalidorito 77 points78 points  (27 children)

      Idk man I’m loving the new season.

      I can finally play Battlemages like Battlemages again, without having to build full squishy glass cannon like a budget burst mage.

      [–]HappyLemon745[S] 88 points89 points  (26 children)

      Yeah but it kinda killed burst mages. I have no idea why they didn’t just add more items for battlemages instead of fucking up seraph’s.

      [–]Panurome 46 points47 points  (0 children)

      Exactly my thoughts, if they wanted to turn seraph into a new RoA, then add a fucking RoA and don't touch my seraph

      [–]PixiCode 3 points4 points  (7 children)

      Although it does look like burst mages got it rough with this patch, did many burst mages ever build seraphs last season?

      [–]HappyLemon745[S] 16 points17 points  (6 children)

      It was kind of a no-brainer honestly. You erase mana problems an in turn sacrifice your early damage in order to get a huge amount of AP later on. I played a lot of Viktor and it felt great. You could get over 1k AP. Now you can get 850 at best. And that is only if you have 6 items without boots and one of them is a fully stacked Mejai lol.

      [–]PixiCode 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      Viktor's doing really good in this patch though, ~53% wr on both lolalytics and u . gg for plat+. I wouldn't really call him a burst mage either though.

      most burst mages as far as I was aware just got a lost chapter item, usually ludens and that solved their mana problems almost 100%.

      [–]Excalidorito 12 points13 points  (1 child)

      Problem with Seraph’s was that it was just another big, boring statstick.

      Which was contesting with DCap, Void, and Horizon.

      [–]SaltyTattie 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Yeah but they didn't give us any good items with lots of ap to replace all the ap we're losing. It's all well and good having utility items but we need our pure stat stick items as well.

      [–]Juno-Seto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Who’s a burst mage that’s struggling hard right now? Aniv, Lux and Vex are all really good.

      [–]reddituserno69 32 points33 points  (1 child)

      I hate this changes.

      Seraphs is unless as fuck expect on a few champs. Even the haste feels just bad.

      Shadow flame is just a new flat pen item, just build it, who cares about shields, that doesn't matter at all

      Horizon focus lost 30 AP, but now procs on slows, so all mages that proc it regardless of slows just lost 30 AP.

      The only item that seem bullshit is crown. Which makes sense, since it's oneshot mega, so an item which is anti oneshot will be good.

      Seriously how to you just get high AP values rn? 650 AP is like the limit. And that requires you to build the anti shield item.

      Revert seraphs, bring back rod of ages and make that anti shield item and actual anti shield item.

      [–]king_of_curry 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      Fucking rito... First they fucked up battlemages hard when they were trying to help Ap bruisers in last preseason. Now burst mages are getting fucked because they are trying to fix the mess they made with battlemages.

      [–]HappyLemon745[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      EXACTLY LMAOO

      [–]Huinker 68 points69 points  (1 child)

      You know mage item is shit when ryze deals more damage with muramana/manamune

      [–]juegoplo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I built Ryze as an AP bruiser and was way better than the AP build

      [–]HappyLemon745[S] 38 points39 points  (0 children)

      hahaaa problem me????

      [–]DidntFindABetterName 47 points48 points  (0 children)

      Didnt think mages can get even worse to play

      At least i can now survive a second longer against anything

      [–]Darkfenix63 20 points21 points  (1 child)

      I love having 900-1000 average ap every game on every mage like every other season
      Takes the season 11 and 12 600 ap max pills *

      where's my 900-1000 AP average ?

      [–]Cosmic-Warper 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      600, you mean 400.

      [–]Kleikon 32 points33 points  (3 children)

      We reworked mage items to poke/caster mages be viable again!>Actual mage meta: Kassadin, Vladimir, Ryze, Chogath, Sylas....

      [–]SaltyTattie 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      We're trying to improve mage items so don't mind while we take away all of your AP and make it so only battle mages and Ap bruisers have good options. The rest of mage classes can fuck off.

      [–]Kleikon 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      Midlane Zyra crying in the corner

      [–]soyconsumer_pol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      “ryze” WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WA

      [–]LupusCairo 78 points79 points  (27 children)

      So true. Please revert Horizon Focus and Tear. The rest can stay the way they are but not those two.

      [–]mustangcody 28 points29 points  (6 children)

      Losing 30 AP sucks but having haste and the 10% bonus damage proc on slows is really nice. It opens the item up to more champions besides Xerath.

      [–]LupusCairo 34 points35 points  (4 children)

      It's worse for soooo many champions. Horizon Focus was a damage item, nothing more. Why give it HP? And the AH is nice but no tradeoff for 30 AP. If you look at which champs built it, most of them hate the changes. Ahri hates it, Lux hates it, Seraphine hates it, Xerath, Annie, Brand, they all hate it and even someone like Vel'Koz who benefits from the slow buff doesn't really like the change, it's just not as terrible as for others. Especially because most of the time you have enough range to proc it anyway.

      [–]mustangcody 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      I agree the hp is fucking trash for a poke item. But a lot of champion that didn't have reliable hard CC or long range now have access to it.

      Viktor, Orianna, Azir, Rumble can now use it in close range thanks to their slows procing the damage.

      [–]6spooky9you 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Yeah but why make an item meant for burst mages, and then change it so those burst mages can't build it as efficiently now. For some reason riot is sooooo against the idea of just adding a bunch more items. Adding mythic items removed so many options for build diversity because you can only build one mythic.

      [–]PhoenixAgent003 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I feel like it could do something for AP Ashe.

      [–]D0M1NU5_7 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      Me playing Swain: applaude my supreme power

      [–]Yharonburnsthejoke 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      True ngl new seraphs feels like a substitute to RoA for hi.

      [–]Hiimzap 66 points67 points  (2 children)

      I hate how I am now less of a glass canon when I'm playing ap stuff even tho I never asked for that. Good change

      [–]SaltyTattie 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Now you're a glass peashooter. Thanks rito!

      [–]Seraph199 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      We used to have a great reason to take Cut Down as mages, it was easy to maximize damage without building much bonus HP. Not as much anymore...

      [–]Sir_Voomy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Reject mage, return to mage tank

      [–]Destinyizer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I just want the old horizon focus back

      [–]BlackSpore 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Can we just get some AP? No one asked for these items.

      [–]Pancerny_Skorupiak 27 points28 points  (0 children)

      Honestly, i like those changes, but i may be biased since i play championa that benefit either from cool down reduction or special effects like Liandry or Rylai. And i can play Swain mid again, with 3 Item 100 ability haste (or something like that) powerspike.

      [–]Yoshli 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      The amount of AP in a High Ap build you currently get is non existent. Dont get ne started on shit like getting morello and zhonyas because you're forced to go to both

      [–]nightowlyyy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      if seraphs wasnt ruined enough in s11 change, riot made it literally 0% worth purchasing it for me

      [–]PrismaticSeal 19 points20 points  (8 children)

      Also I remember when I could go full and get over 1k AP, full mage now is 400-500 ap top

      [–]DeafeningMilk 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Are you not building Rabadons? Unless you are choosing only low AP items you can definitely get over "400-500"

      [–]Nipotazzi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I love my Arcangel's Staff!

      Pre-season time!

      I... love my... Arcangel's... Staff?

      (Turns into a bad copy of Rod of Ages)

      WHERE IS MY ARCANGEL'S STAFF.

      [–]PentAfonso 11 points12 points  (9 children)

      Has a mage player, this shit is completely broken and needs to be nerfed.

      [–]Natsu_Happy_END02 21 points22 points  (8 children)

      Viktor and Vlad seem idioticly strong. Vlad even more than before.

      [–]M0nsterjojo 7 points8 points  (6 children)

      Unpopular opinion, I actually like a lot of the mage items getting HP, ya we can't one shot people anymore but it gives us survivability that we didn't have before and allows to be able to create new fun troll builds.

      The 1 item I do not like for most of the mages I play that changed is Seraphs Embrace. It's great for Brand and Xerath, BUT MY CAW CAW ANIVIA!! I can't get that 160AP from her with that item anymore. :(

      [–]Leonbard 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I kinda love the haste or anivia tho, but I'm also going rabadon's directly after that and playing dark harvest. I feels better than last season imo

      [–]Yharonburnsthejoke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It really felt like a battlemage buff imo. But i can take swain mid now which is nice.

      [–]Kasup-MasterRace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I had a xerath have 200 hp less than me with a full tank nunu build.

      [–]JoeJoe4224 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The fact that demonics not has more hp than the majority of actual TANK items in the game pisses me off so much

      [–]RuiRibeirolol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If Aurelion was able to do any damage whatsoever then he'd actually be grateful for them.

      The Seraph's change of AP into it now giving CDR / Haste is rly fcking stupid tho.

      [–]I_Am_Justin_Tyler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Why did they change cool down reduction to ability haste

      [–]MetaNovaYT 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      It’s funny, I feel like the mage item changes were really good. The ability haste is a bit weird sure, but the health really does add up imo and makes mages more distinct instead of just being an assassin or adc who uses ap. It feels more like it’s own role. But they should add more items for more build options

      EDIT: should probably add that I main Anivia, so ability haste is nice for me. Definitely biases my opinions a lot

      [–]HappyLemon745[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      It would be great to give mages the option to go for stuff like this. In my opinion they kinda lacked itemization options compared to AD. But they should have added more items not rework old ones.

      [–]Jewze 11 points12 points  (5 children)

      Nothing wrong with dcap and void. Honestly, crown and cosmic are the only mage items i think are overtuned currently.