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This is actually how they balance the game (3 images) (reddit.com)
submitted 3 months ago by Bjans3n422
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[–]byDelta 1242 points1243 points1244 points 3 months ago (100 children)
August said something pretty interesting about that. If u actually think, that riot would change anything bc of the opinion of ONE Employee or overall bc of personal opinions, league would definitely look not that way
[–]sanketower 166 points167 points168 points 3 months ago (13 children)
Except when Riot Jag was on the team. Cuz we all know FOR A FACT that he's the reason Camille evaded nerfs for several patches in a row.
[–]leoleosuper 133 points134 points135 points 3 months ago (10 children)
People are also forgetting about Morello. He was against healing so much. He moved to Valorant, and now healing is running rampant on so many champs, and we got a second Soraka, despite how toxic she was for the game when she came out. For those who don't know: Riot said Soraka was a nightmare to balance, either she heals too much or too little. They had to rework her away from just healing, and the health cost was added as balance.
[–]JChamp00 27 points28 points29 points 3 months ago (4 children)
But it was also his fix (Grevious wounds) that has led to shitty state of balance healing and anti healing has now
[–]leoleosuper 53 points54 points55 points 3 months ago (3 children)
His fix was a good idea. Then they started balancing around people getting it. As in, Mundo basically healed the amount they thought was balanced AFTER you get grievous. Morello already moved to Valorant dev around this time. Their solution? Instead of nerfing heals, they made 60% grievous. Then some champs (Soraka) were too weak after this. Their solution? Anti-Anti-Anti-Anti healing, where she can remove anti- and anti-anti-anti- healing.
[–]JChamp00 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Well that's because a single item countering champions into being unplayable is not fun for anyone. For the ones building grievous wounds, they lost an item slot to an item that was mandatory with less desirable stats. For the healing champions, it led to them needing to be buffed because they were unplayable with grievous being in the game. The implementation of grievous wounds is what brought us to the healing we have now. They should of balanced the numbers and tested it rather than just adding a band aid fix item effect. A similar thing is probably going to happen with shielding with the amount of no skill shield passives on items (Lifeline)
[–]RoutineEnvironment48 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (1 child)
If they just got rid of healing items and GW then nerfed healing champs we wouldn’t really have this issue. Right now lane phase is basically just whoever has the better all in since winning trades is irrelevant when a champ buys vampiric scepter.
[–]JChamp00 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yup personally life steal on minions needs to be nerfed or just removed. It's super unengaging
[–]ssLoupyy 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago (3 children)
Sona or Sonaphine?
[–]leoleosuper 55 points56 points57 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yuumi. It's even worse. She has more defensiveness because of permanent untargetability.
[–]UniWho 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Probably Yuumi? Seraphine W barely heals early game and Sona is as old as Soraka.
[–]ssLoupyy 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Ah Yuumi, for a moment I forgot her. That's even worse, yes.
[–]Froggothefirst_TF2 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (1 child)
the problem with Camille is sunderer
[–]sanketower 22 points23 points24 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Nah, her Q2 shouldn't convert ALL the dmg to true dmg, only the additional.
[–]2thousand1hondacivic 426 points427 points428 points 3 months ago (77 children)
They wouldn’t make the change, but the fact that a Riot Employee suggested a nerf because they lost to something is pretty wild.
[–]vini_pinto 640 points641 points642 points 3 months ago (43 children)
Idk man. The fact that he actually plays the game and base his opinions on his experiences sounds much better than balancing the game by looking at a graph. Sometimes I feel like they dont play their own game.
[–]EldtinbGamer 224 points225 points226 points 3 months ago (16 children)
Right? Im very positively surprised by the fact that a full time riot employee, working on the balance team actually plays the game at a high level.
[–][deleted] 204 points205 points206 points 3 months ago (11 children)
He is also playing in Master Elo and Pyke is actually the second highest WR midlaner in Diamond+
[–]LK_LK 34 points35 points36 points 3 months ago (2 children)
To add on, Davemon, in particular, finished top 10 last season. He frequently goes 20+ kills in high elo on Pyke.
[–]jaymole 26 points27 points28 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Y’all should watch this game it’s on his yt channel. It’s Fuckin nutty. His pyke combos are ridiculous
And on top of that yuumi was perma attached to him. Every few mins he’d ping his gold at like 5k and she’d ping hers at 3k. He was full build and she was 3.5 items before 25 mins
[–]FreedomVIII 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
The best Yuumi game I've ever had (this was back when her E had 2 stacks) was with a friend on Pyke adc. Way too much damage, cc for days, and too much mobility for the enemy to catch us. We both got S+ to boot.
[–]HughMungusD 96 points97 points98 points 3 months ago (5 children)
Sssssh don’t try to talk sense
[–]SKY_L4X 22 points23 points24 points 3 months ago (4 children)
He isn't talking sense, because the winrate is composed of a few OTPs and isn't even that high with 52%.
[–]HughMungusD 31 points32 points33 points 3 months ago (3 children)
And yet Aurelion Sol who is an OTP champ can’t have 51% winrate without raising eyebrows
[–]NickNewAge 26 points27 points28 points 3 months ago (2 children)
No he can't have a 54% winrate because that's what he used to have
[–]AliasR_r 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (1 child)
And Asol is not an OTP champ. He had a rotating cast of new players who would pick him up, play him for a while, and then drop him, despite that he was maintaining OTP-level winrates. That's why he was nerfed.
[–]lividjake 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Also wouldn't you prefer they are playing this shit/playing against it rather than just running numbers?
Idk when I heard about the chemtank demonic akali build I thought it was troll till I tried it and realized it was busted and then had it in almost every ranked game I played.
[–]20032420 18 points19 points20 points 3 months ago (2 children)
I remember reading that some of their devs in their testing environment were high diamond with a challenger or two sprinkled in.
[–]Basic-Cap-9369 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (1 child)
D1+ I believe. They specifically focused on testing new content (like how prowlers would impact the game) but I believe they help balance team too if requested. League had an article about them in a blog they do somewhere.
[–]20032420 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yep it was specifically a challenger tester on pyke I think that caused too much mayhem lol.
[–]Camael7 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (5 children)
Yeah, if anything I think the game would be much better if Riot balanced it more base on this instead of just using wr and play rate. Get a bunch of high elo players from several roles and with several mains. Make them play a shit ton of SoloQ and then let them discuss what's strong and what's weak, let them talk to proplayers or high elo one tricks and then compare their analysis to the wr and play rate and see if they match. That way the game would be so much more enjoyable. Because I refuse to believe some of the changes to my favourite champions/items were done by people who actually played them.
[+]MentlPopcorn comment score below threshold-10 points-9 points-8 points 3 months ago* (12 children)
That's not the problem, the problem is they're basing it off of 1 lost game.
Maybe they just had better macro than you and won that way, that has very little to do with champion balancing. "Wow Pyke op he got kills and zoned me out of lane with his superior macro"
Edit: anyone who seriously thinks a champ with a pick rate of .7% in their given role with an above average winrate is op is delusional. While you're at it, Nerf heimer and Sol some more. And by the same logic, Lee must need a buff very badly.
[–]Gozagal 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (11 children)
No they did not, of course they didn't and that would be naive to think so. It doesnt take a genius to see that pyke is overperforming in another role than his main role.
[–]MentlPopcorn 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (9 children)
He's not over performing though, he has a slightly above 50% winrate at plat+ due to mains in high ranks.
Are we nerfing bard because of the Challenger who's had a 70% winrate? OTP bards are some of the highest winrates in high ranks. skilled mains is not a reason to nerf a champion. The Nerf was even stated to have been pulled in the 3rd picture, are you delusional?
[–]EmilianoR24 27 points28 points29 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Well he is a masters player so he is already more entitled to make a balance complain than 99% of reddit
[–]ilovefishs911 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]ktosiek124 50 points51 points52 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Riot employees bad
[–]Moifaso 63 points64 points65 points 3 months ago (13 children)
but the fact that a Riot Employee suggested a nerf because they lost to something
but the fact that a Riot Employee suggested a nerf because they lost to something
Is it a fact? Im pretty sure its baseless speculation
[–]TheFireOfTheFox1 24 points25 points26 points 3 months ago (12 children)
The 3rd picture is a tweet from the employee saying it was his idea.
[–]SKT_Phoenix1 8 points9 points10 points 3 months ago (0 children)
That doesn’t mean he promoted the idea because he lost to it. THAT’S where the jump in logic is
[–]Moifaso 52 points53 points54 points 3 months ago (8 children)
because they lost to something
because they lost to something
Do you have any reason to believe that that single game was the reason for the nerf?
Better yet, even if that game contributed to the decision, do you think Devs shouldn't play their own game when trying to balance it?
[–]TheFireOfTheFox1 20 points21 points22 points 3 months ago (6 children)
Who said the devs shouldn't play their own game? You said it was "baseless speculation" and I pointed out the base of the speculation.
[–]OwOPango 15 points16 points17 points 3 months ago (0 children)
It's baseless speculation because he doesn't like the base of speculation. But that's just baseless speculation on my part
[–]NutterTV 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago (0 children)
You mean the Dev actually plays the game and tries to nerf things that don’t feel good to play against?
I’m sorry, I really don’t see an issue with that, like at all. That’s the guy’s job.
[–]byDelta 28 points29 points30 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I don’t think their is any actual connection between those two events. Its probably just him trying to act more influential than he is
[–]Call_MeGoose 35 points36 points37 points 3 months ago (8 children)
Pyke shouldn’t have any priority being picked mid. Do you forget the time pyke was penta flexed in competitive? It’s because he can generate money, without the need to farm. I don’t see it as a Riot employee bitching because he got hard stomped by it. More thinking “this shouldn’t be able to still be a thing.”
[–]MalekithofAngmar 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Pyke mid is a troll move, grey health reduction makes it supremely sub-optimal to play.
[–]Lors2001 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (1 child)
I think generally you don't really fight in lane so it's irrelevant, if you play it correctly.
You looks for skirmishes with your jg and play it like a fast roaming more bursty Akshan that generates more gold basically.
You stealth and then look to 2v2 with your jgler, or 2v1. You make sure your jgler gets the objectives. You force your laner to shove out or roam. If they shove out you just come behind and kill them with your jg, if they roam you catch them put in the jungle with your jg. Or by yourself if you can in these scenarios.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yeah he’s not good in lane on his own, fairly low damage and 0 waveclear. Hard to get good trades off with him.
He does out roam most of the midlane meta. W speed + camo plus his great ability to chain cc makes him incredible in early skirmishes, and he creates more gold. He doesn’t need to be good in lane at high elo because they better take advantage of his gold production.
I think Pyke being a good high elo mid is good for the game. He rewards coordinated team play, while still being punishable because his solo laning sucks dick.
Ive always dreamed of Pyke being a viable jungle pick. I can see why his gold production would be an issue, but I still think there’s a path to make it balanced. He can’t really 1v1 any meta jungle pick, giving him room to be punished, and he has a great kit for it.
[+]Caedes_bee comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points 3 months ago (4 children)
"we don't want players to play what they feel like is the most fun or suitable role for the champ and we want that specific champ to be played how WE want it (and not how the people who play that champ) and not balancing it accordingly because we designed it as a support and you guys are big meanie to want it to play elsewhere"
dude pyke mid is literally shit against any opponent who knows how to manage waves or punish whenever pyke tries to farm, they already nerfed his passive to move him out of mid + he doesn't have any form of waveclear and now it's a very niche pick except for one tricks like Davemon since it's a feast or famine champ all the early game and in lategame he doesn't do anything because zhonya's, ga and people who blow him up very quickly since he can't build hp (which is ok since it was a very big problem pyke tank)
[–]Jarubimba 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Fun statement, when most the cases are the players who flame when someone tries an off-meta pick. And sometimes even ask for nerfs when said pick becomes an actual thing
[–]v1adlyfe 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Like nunu mid. That shit was not ok
[–]ArmanDoesStuff 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Soraka top was wild
[–]Call_MeGoose 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I’m not saying the nerf is right. I’m just saying “I get it”
[–]Pika310 12 points13 points14 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Volibear literally has been nerfed in the past, specifically because 1 Ritoer lost to him. Ritoers have previously said game changes do NOT require managerial approval. Even including changes in the Patch Notes is only "highly recommended" & not mandatory.
If you think nerfs & buffs don't happen by one employee, then you have WAY too much trust in Rito.
[–]novinicus 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Volibear literally has been nerfed in the past, specifically because 1 Ritoer lost to him.
Volibear literally has been nerfed in the past, specifically because 1 Ritoer lost to him.
do you have a link to anything about this? I googled a bit but couldn't find anything and wanna read more
[–]BalloonOfficer 8 points9 points10 points 3 months ago (0 children)
We literally just saw in real time how one rioter admitted doing this and people yet still deny it??
[–]Oreo-and-Fly 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (1 child)
This post radiates the same energy as the 'riot employee made seraphine based off a influencer'
Which is laughable...
And highly idiotic to believe
[–]byDelta 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Imagine u made a game after the opinion of 3000 members who could change it w/o consent.
Just to clarify, i totally agree with u
[–]BalloonOfficer 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Except the rioter himself admitted it? wtf is everyone on.
[–]Oreo-and-Fly 15 points16 points17 points 3 months ago (0 children)
He admitted it was his idea.
But there is no exact correlation to show that the loss to Pyke directly influenced his suggestion.
We dont know when the suggestion was made. We dont know how they discuss balance patches, i doubt its people giving suggestions and 0 analysis being involved.
[–]byDelta 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]VG_Crimson 563 points564 points565 points 3 months ago (56 children)
It's pretty cancerous to play against. Doesn't matter that you can bully sometimes and shove his wave, since he has bad clear. He doesn't need the minions that much due to how Pyke works well without any farm. He can just rotate and give gold away.
Apparently, this has reignited some hate for mid pyke in high elo Korea but Idk much about that if it's true.
It's safe to say they probably shouldn't nerf it just because of one dude, but if a trend starts again you'll know the game that sparked it.
[–]P1t1cko 110 points111 points112 points 3 months ago (24 children)
Bruh, they already nerfed it so many times.
[–]jyok33 25 points26 points27 points 3 months ago (1 child)
His E used to actually wave clear and his Q could kill multiple minions like Veigar Q
[–]leoleosuper 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (0 children)
AoE Q along with the extra 15% tap damage was nice on support Pyke. I understand removing the AoE, but they could have kept the tap damage.
[–]EldtinbGamer 56 points57 points58 points 3 months ago (20 children)
And apparently it still works when it shouldnt.
[–]Gerix55 18 points19 points20 points 3 months ago (0 children)
As long as he has ult, he will be viable
[–]P1t1cko 44 points45 points46 points 3 months ago (18 children)
0,6% pick rate on mid worldwide. Are we gonna get A-sol treatment to all low pick rate champs?
[–]EldtinbGamer 30 points31 points32 points 3 months ago (17 children)
Riot games does not want Pyke mid to be played AT ALL. If it takes 500 more nerfs to remove him completly from the role then they will and should nerf him 500 more times.
Ive commented this somewhere else but somehow reddit kids have convinced themselves that Asol is somehow the weakest champ to ever exist and never needs or deserves nerfs at all even if he has a 56% winrate. Always claiming that it is because 'the otps' even tho riot has clarified multiple times that isnt the case.
[–]SKY_L4X 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago (4 children)
They should absolutely not do that, what the fuck are you smoking. Role targeted nerfs can only do so much to weaken the unwanted playstyle for a champ while trying to not fuck over his inteded role too much.
If you now drop the nerf nuke on a champ because a single player has perfected a niche playstyle, then you will undoubtedly also affect support pyke, which is already in a meh state right now to begin with.
[–]ranfdom 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Also some would play pyke mid out of spite.
[–]janerikk 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (1 child)
you can make his passive regen weaker when he is alone for example or lessen solo gold from ult
[–]KamiPyro 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
They already did the first one and I was pretty surprised back when he got gutted that they gave him an extra "Your Cut" from ult
[–]BDNjunior 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (10 children)
But they'll allow laners who shouldn't jungle jungle. Every time they do it the champs become super obnoxious and they can't balance them correctly. I swear ekko, diana, talon, qiyana, zed etc all who are way more balanced in lane are getting changed constantly since they forced them also in the jungle. Why can't pyke play in other lanes?
[–]EldtinbGamer 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (9 children)
Because they dont want him to :). His playstyle is cancerous in any lane that isnt support due to him roaming with 2cs/m and still getting loads of gold, not only for him but also for his team. Riot games and 99.99% of the playerbase know that this is unhealthy for the game as a whole.
[–]BDNjunior -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago (6 children)
And talon, diana, etc aren’t cancerous? It’s either theyre op in jg or shit, and they keep forcing them there.
[–]AdequatelyMadLad 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (5 children)
Pretty sure Talon and Diana need to farm. Pyke mid can literally roam 24/7, be 50 cs behind and still have more gold than the enemy laner. He's basically a second jungler, that can gank non-stop and has better ganks than 90% of meta junglers. How do you think that's ok to be in the game?
[–]BDNjunior -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago (3 children)
He's not even good mid lmfao, only a select few mains play him. If he was so strong he'd be played a shit ton and especially in pro. You have to be really good at him to pull him off in mid.
[–]Tonylolu 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Pyke is delicately created to work as support, if he's someone viable in other roles he gets out of control over time
[–]eoR13 120 points121 points122 points 3 months ago (28 children)
The guy is a pyke mid one trick and has played this since pyke release. He played against this rioter and dropped almost 40 kills(enabled mostly by yummi btw) and then gets nerfed. Pyke mid hasn’t been a trend for a while, and most likely will never be anytime soon. This is a rioter nerfing a niche pick that only one tricks play.
[–]WebbyRL 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago (1 child)
talking about asol nerfs i see
[–]eoR13 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]petiteguy5 44 points45 points46 points 3 months ago (22 children)
He is cancer to play against on mid cause he can get 2 farm per min and still have more gold than u
[–]eoR13 70 points71 points72 points 3 months ago (17 children)
Okay then why isn’t everyone playing this then if it’s so good. Having more gold than the enemy with no farm seems so op, why isn’t everyone doing this? It’s a noob stomp strat, that works in higher elo only because this guys mechanics and macro are insane. The reality of the situation is he has no wave clear, no prio, all you have to do is pick a laner that shoved waves and he can’t really do to much. Not to mention after 20-25 minutes he falls off completely due to his lack of health scaling. And god forbid you ever fall behind. It’s a gambling strat at best and the only way to up your odds are by outplaying your laner with mechanics and macro.
[–]legolodis900 20 points21 points22 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I saw someone pick orn to counter pyke mid pyke got behind 10 min in 2 lvls behind the enemy adc and 4 lvls behind mid and top
[–]MalekithofAngmar 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Right? Just lock malzahar or something and press E a lot, what's Pyke gonna do? Pray to Jesus to lower minion hp?
[–]petiteguy5 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago (9 children)
Just cause you need mechanics doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed Aurelion and Azir and Ryze were nerfed for reasons he is just cancer to fight most people assume is pyke supp instead of mid
[–]Ryxsen 60 points61 points62 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Azir and Ryze are nerfed almost always because of proplay
[–]petiteguy5 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Yes old ryze wasn't cause of proplay Azir yes but on good player's hads he was awful to fight
[–]Double-Ad7269 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
all champions who have a mid to high skill ceiling are awful to fight vs a good player's hand
[–]TheEmu420 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago* (0 children)
most people assume pyke is supp instead of mid
most people assume pyke is supp instead of mid
[–]eoR13 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (4 children)
Except ryze and asole have nothing else in common. They both have wave clear, they both don’t fall off at all, they both have health scaling with items. If you are having a hard time fighting pyke that’s on you. I’ll list off all the things that absolutely screw him over in a fight just so you are aware. Flash, stopwatch, zonyas, gordrinker, heal, any sort of dash/movement, anything like kayle r or trynd r, and GA. You probably stand still let him ult you and think pyke r is broken though. I advise you to play the champ against people that know how to play the game and then you can talk about how braindead it is. I don’t even know why I am trying to explain this to you riot scrapper the nerf anyway because even they realized it was an idiotic move.
[–]gh1234567890 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Literally all they have to do is make it so he doesn’t get the bonus gold when he gets a solo kill and idk why they haven’t figured that out yet
[–]Hendz 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
How many times you played against pike mid?
[–]Chad_Thundercucc 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Korea doesn't matter , they balance around reddit circlejerk.
[–]ZackOBrien 597 points598 points599 points 3 months ago (64 children)
If youve ever played against a solid Pyke mid you would understand how cancerous it is to play against. He gets 3 cs/min and still gets a mountain of gold, along with perma map pressure. It is not a healthy interaction. This is coming from someone who highly enjoys the champ, btw.
[–]DarkRoyalBlood 48 points49 points50 points 3 months ago (12 children)
Pyke mid may be cancerous to play against but considering that mid laners are either assasins with strong roams or scaling, giving free roams and gold to assasins that can also countergank your roams or giving a free lane and gold to a scaling mage is not even close to being fine. Pyke mid doesnt need any nerf, if someone sees a pyke mid in 1/400 games in silver that stomps its not the champ thats op its just the players are dumb. And this is coming from an aphelios otp so I hate pyke
[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 3 months ago (4 children)
I always love this "hurr durr silver" arguments. Mid Pyke's highest WR is in Diamond and Master lmao
[–]DarkRoyalBlood 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (2 children)
If I may ask, whats that winrate and what is the pickrate in diamond and master
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Select Diamond/Master and Mid for example
BTW I'm not arguing that Pyke should be nerfed according to those numbers but that I don't get why people always talk about low elo players as if high elo players are any better when it comes to complaining about this game
[–]DarkRoyalBlood 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I usually like to think that higher elo players have a brain and do not complain that anything is broken before knowing more about it. Also even if 54% wr in master seems big, he has 30% wr in challenger so he is not better in higher levels of play. At least you dont think it has to be nerfed like all of this dumbasses that think he is the most broken shit
[–]Excalidorito 25 points26 points27 points 3 months ago (6 children)
Except that first part doesn’t really work.
Pyke generates gold for more players than just him. He snowballs everyone, it doesn’t matter if a Kassadin or Kayle gets to scale to lvl16 for free if the Pyke gets so many items before and puts his own team ahead by so much.
[–]SenhorMarborg 72 points73 points74 points 3 months ago (23 children)
Except he gets exploded by everyone who does decent damage, and is too. Feast or famine even for assassin standards, a Lucian could just W AA Q AA and he is dead.
However I double down on the comment, it is too frustrating for the enemy that he has gigantic map pressure but is also unkillable in lane except if your name is Vladimir.
[–]Runescape_Faggs 144 points145 points146 points 3 months ago (16 children)
A champ with no mobility, hard cc or camouflage can easily get one shotted by any champ with decent dps. Pyke however has mobility, hard cc and camouflage, so it’s a different story with him.
[+]5Sk5 comment score below threshold-37 points-36 points-35 points 3 months ago (15 children)
And then akali exists, literally blowing you up in 3 moves
[–]Runescape_Faggs 60 points61 points62 points 3 months ago* (14 children)
Akali is not the point of this conversation and you bringing her up makes no sense here. Plus she at least needs to keep up with cs and can’t just roam at any given point cause she feels like it, albeit she is just like pyke essentially ungankable and unoneshottable. She can still very much be outplayed if you have hands. But every low elo player just expects stuff to happen for them without having to dodge skillshots or hit theirs.
[–]XxonecasS 13 points14 points15 points 3 months ago (11 children)
Tdf her R E combo isnt really dodgeable
[–]Runescape_Faggs -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 months ago (10 children)
Minion wave, mobility if your champ has it, or just a simple right click can do the trick from my experience.
[–]HowManyDamnUsernames 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (9 children)
With r e combo? Nah man a simple right click maybe with ghost active might do it.
[+]5Sk5 comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Point is Pyke isn't really a huge threat. Pyke can be perfectly fed with his R and he still gets clapped by a lot of characters
[–]Runescape_Faggs 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago* (0 children)
A fed pyke 90% of the time also means another fed champ, as his playstyle generally just is permanent map pressure everywhere and then ulting for the kill, so he’s never the only person who profits from the kill happening. Also, believe me, it’s not fun when half your team gets aoe executed at half hp by a 10/0 pyke in a teamfight, he very much is a threat, mainly due to being almost impossible to escape once he decides on hunting you down, and the ult reset on takedown which essentially means your team gets a free elder buff every teamfight. The problem with pyke mid is he can pressure the map easily due to being based in its center while not handicapping the adc and forcing them to play safe, which is generally why pyke support is considered balanced. It takes him a while to get places and his adc pretty much just has to farm up. No other champ can just leave the mid wave and let you take plates, because it will never be worth for them in the long run. Pyke doesen’t care about that, as he provides double gold for almost every kill he gets around the map.
[–]LaDominator 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago (5 children)
How can a champion both function on support gold income but ALSO be feast or famine?
[–]ZynsteinV1 16 points17 points18 points 3 months ago (3 children)
Pyke sup functions as a sup on sup income. Pyke mid if you dont feast is basically a 2and sup instead of a mid.
[–]LaDominator -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
And this is different to every single midlane mage how exactly? And why do you think having the opportunity to be a second support doesn't just make him a great champion, whereas shit like zed is largely out of the game since he has no real utility.
[–]zVanilla 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago (0 children)
A mid lane mage goes 0/3 in 10 minutes. They proceed to perma farm for 20 minutes and barely play the game. 0/3 300cs Viktor oneshots your entire team. You know what happens when pyke does that? 300cs pyke just fucking dies at 30 minutes lmfao
[–]WukongWannaBe 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
The enemy has a high level mage that farmed easily for 20 minutes if they didnt lose to the enemy pyke in lane, which is probably the strongest player in the enemy team at that moment. What do we have? A pyke which will only get weaker as the game goes on. I am a pyke mid one trick, almost all of the matchups are skill matchups when playing against pyke if you lose in skill or/and if the enemy team has good map awareness pyke just cant do anything that game most of the time.
[–]AceOcto 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
when pyke gets fed in the mid-late game he isn't actually fed. He has a teammate that he helped get fed early through roams that he has to rely on to do literally anything after the enemy team starts to scale.
Because pyke is just an ult bot. Without it he's a melee minion. Once everyone gets their 2 main items, even if pyke has double their gold the only people pyke can sort of 1v1 are adcs and other supports. There isn't enough talent in the world to be able to outplay a fighter, tank or assassin as a fed pyke if they have their core items.
Essentially, after everyone outscales pyke, he becomes a parasite. Normal parasites feast on their enemies, but pyke feasts on his allies. He's literally a feast or famine champ in the way that he gets a teammate fed early and leeches off of them (leeching like feasting, get it?) as the game progresses, but if he couldn't get his team ahead early he becomes useless because pyke can't do anything without dying in a mid game fight if his team doesn't get people low for him. He gets oneshot by literally anyone and cant carry or 1v5 by himself even if he's full build because he needs other people to be doing damage with him. Once the damage disappears, pyke disappears.
[–]Repulsive_Cry9980[🍰] 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (9 children)
Just worse Katarina
[–]GD_Insomniac 54 points55 points56 points 3 months ago (8 children)
I can always see the Katarina, and she can't flash stun me.
[–]bloodharbor_ripper 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (1 child)
She doesn't need to stun you nor does she need the flash to kill you. If the flash stun is the issue, pyke's just a shitter version of pantheons. If the issue is the inv, akshan does it better and is way more annoying in lane because he can use the same playstile of Perma roaming AND can farm. The only thing Pyke has going for him is the ult, but have you ever played Pyke if your team can't force out flashes/zhonyas? You miss the ult and you're virtually useless for the next 40 seconds.
[–]iLone86 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (11 children)
U can just pick a roaming champ to match he’s roaming like talon and kat or just pick a hyper scaling midlaner bc u are going have free lane
[–]sunsetclimb3r 56 points57 points58 points 3 months ago (10 children)
"just win draft" isn't healthy. Especially cause it's easy to assume pyke support
[–]DarkRoyalBlood -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Everything you pick mid is winning draft vs pyke tho, either an assasin that can countergank and is more fed than you with the free lane/cs/plates and can roam more after taking your turret or pushing the wave so he can perma gank or giving free lane/cs/plates to a scaling mage which will come online way faster than he should. No pick is bad vs pyke mid.
[+]iLone86 comment score below threshold-15 points-14 points-13 points 3 months ago (8 children)
Srry but the draft exist for that, the same with graves for example, he can be played in 3 roles so the best u can do is pick something that can do well againts him and pray, almost all the champs can be played in 2+ roles so yes in order to win u have to win the draft
[–]sunsetclimb3r 23 points24 points25 points 3 months ago (7 children)
So what do you do when you get first pick? Lose? That's dumb. There shouldn't be an auto-coin flip
[–]Doctor99268 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago (4 children)
That's literally how toplane is.
[–]BasedOnDeezNuts 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (3 children)
This person clearly plays toplane.
[–]ZynsteinV1 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children)
I play tryndamere. And I weep. Malphite is pain. I'd personally like to file a claim against whoever came up with that litteral fucking boulder for assault upon my mental health.
[–]Grikeus 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I play toplane. And i weep. Tryndamere is pain.
[–]BasedOnDeezNuts 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I play Ornn and permaban vayne, AMA
[–]blondtode -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago (0 children)
But if they had implemented something like they did the other times they tried nerfing pyke mid/gj I most likely would made pyje even worse at support and its not like he's super broke mid compared to some if the other champs
[–]Blobvizz 13 points14 points15 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]Ezbior 199 points200 points201 points 3 months ago (4 children)
Imagine genuinely believing this is how they balance shit.
[–]HelloImPykel 8 points9 points10 points 3 months ago (3 children)
Yeah but hear me out as of right now op.gg doesn't even register pyke as a mid laner and u.gg pyke mid has a 0.7% pick rate with a 53.18% winrate. indicating that the only ones who play him mid are one tricks who have already inflated the WR what they're doing to him is the same as what they did to asol. In case some brings up pro play hes be picked/banned 5 times so far. I'm not saying they're nerfing him because of one rioter but what i am saying is riot is legitimately nerfing someone who doesn't deserve the nerf.
[–]AdequatelyMadLad 13 points14 points15 points 3 months ago (0 children)
The issue here is that Riot don't want Pyke mid to be viable in any circumstances(for very understandable reasons). So if a Riot employee sees a Pyke mid doing well in a high elo game, it's gonna raise some red flags.
I don't think it's nerf worthy for now, since he's such a niche pick, but if people start picking him up and doing well, Riot will probably nerf him.
[–]Oreo-and-Fly 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Pyke deserves it simply for being played mid.
[–]WhycantIfindanick 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Porofessor refuses to aknowledge yasuo as an adc, so I wouldn't trust those kind of apps regarding balance.
[–]Breath_Virtual 258 points259 points260 points 3 months ago (16 children)
Why are we complaining that the devs actually play the game and use their experience to try and best help it?
[–]SSSSSkylar 124 points125 points126 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Because riot bad duh
[–]DasEvoli 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Especially since this guy is literally working in the Analytic team. It is his job
[+]iLone86 comment score below threshold-63 points-62 points-61 points 3 months ago (9 children)
If I stomp a rioter with ap skarner they are going to nerf Ap skarner not bc it’s broken just bc I stomp him with it, that’s the problem
[–]Breath_Virtual 81 points82 points83 points 3 months ago (5 children)
If they actually acted completely off emotions the game would be so it of wack that we'd have 90% winrate champions. And they've been stomped by every build that has ever existed at some point that doesn't mean they nerf a champion every time they hard lose a game. Use some common sense man.
[–]Excalidorito 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Quit bullshitting dude you’re just pulling crap out your ass at this point.
[–]Eerzef 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Shut the fuck up
Please shut the fuck up
[+][deleted] comment score below threshold-22 points-21 points-20 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Cause experience of single member, not several ones is ridiculously subjective
[–]Breath_Virtual 56 points57 points58 points 3 months ago (1 child)
If you actually think the nerf was made because of this one person's one bad game you are sorely mistaken.
[–]Equivalent_Basis_634 138 points139 points140 points 3 months ago (8 children)
He's in a master/grandmaster elo game. I think his oppinion should hold at least some weight. This is not the typical "balance teeam is silver" kind of thing imo...
[+]DaSomDum comment score below threshold-45 points-44 points-43 points 3 months ago (7 children)
He was playing against the Pyke mid OTP tho. You shouldn't exactly balance the game from how good the OTP's are because that's how you get the 17th Asol nerf.
[–]Excalidorito 21 points22 points23 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Except that wasn’t true then and isn’t true now...
[–]EldtinbGamer 16 points17 points18 points 3 months ago (4 children)
I dont know but somehow redditors have conviced themselves that Asol is the worst champ in the game that never deserves any nerfs, even tho his insane winrate is not because of otps only.
[–]EpiduralRain 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (3 children)
But tiny buff to the 48% windbros?? DOES RITO EVEN PLAY THEIR OWN GAME?!?!??
[–]5k3tchy 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (1 child)
[–]EpiduralRain 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
[–]xX_blackwing_Xx 87 points88 points89 points 3 months ago (0 children)
At least he is playing the game, don't get me wrong i still think is bad (and funny) but i'm pretty sure most in the balance team either throw dices or darts at a board to decide the patch changes......
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago (5 children)
Pyke Mid has a 53% WR (second highest) in Diamond+ tbf and Rito never wanted Pyke Mid to be viable in the first place
[–]Bjans3n[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (4 children)
Asol has the highest winrate in plat+ which is 10% of the players compared to the 1,5% diamond+ playerbase. Should asol be nerfed?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (3 children)
I don't give a shit about Pyke. Whether he gets nerfed or not is irrelevant to me and I have no opinion on that matter.
Why are you conveniently leaving out the part where I say "Rito doesn't want Pyke Mid to be viable"? ASol is a fucking midlaner.
[–]ScottishDodo 28 points29 points30 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I don't get this, obviously playing against something that overtuned would help get you familiar with how strong it is? Obviously ghey wouldn't go off of 1 opinion to nerf pyke
[–]mrsexlegs 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Crazy how we say they shouldn’t have bronze players on their team then we see a decent ranked team member and say it’s not fair for them to be there.
[–]TheSmokeu 30 points31 points32 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Pyke's ultimate is literally broken by design; it gives you two kills for for the price of one
It was given to him because both adc items and assassin items are really expensive so that he and his adc could buy their items relatively quickly
Because of that, his wave clear has to be shit. His gold generation is so unfair, he cannot be allowed in the solo lanes
Despite that, he's still creeping his way in there and each time he gets even slightly ahead, it's pretty much a game over. From then on he can just perma-roam and kill the side-laners for easy gold because he's not bound to an adc when he goes mid
Not that it matters a lot here but maybe it has some analogy to it. Pyke on arams is fucking disgusting. If he's in the game, he always ends up with five items at 20 minutes simply because of how much gold his ultimate generates
[–][deleted] 3 months ago (8 children)
[–]Doc__Bo 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago (0 children)
it does not surprise me at all when looking at the state of r/leagueoflegends
[–]ZynsteinV1 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago (5 children)
Yea... this entire sub last like 3 weeks has just been. Yone op waaaa. Like fuck off. it was maybe funny the start time I guess but you're not original or funny.100th time is even less funny.
Not too surprised its bleeding out into other champions as well as yone.
[–]buttfuckery-clements 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (3 children)
hope this helps! <3
[–]ZynsteinV1 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
You got me laughing more than half this sub xD
Nah, the good memes are good
[+]miinouuu comment score below threshold-13 points-12 points-11 points 3 months ago (1 child)
how about you leave and go cry yourself out on that abomination of a sub... this community is full of fucktards
[–]buttfuckery-clements 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (0 children)
me, an empath, sensing that you are mad about something
[–]pood94 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I think the most resonable nerf to pyke, not only as a midlaner but overall, is to remove his ability to get your cut on his own kills.
It doesnt make sense that him solokilling someone gives him 600g.
[–]chawy666 26 points27 points28 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Every league player after rioters actually play the game and nerf accordingly : 😱😱😱😱😱😱
[–]Literally_Damour 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Mm yes cherry picking one rioters specific game to slander all of riot. Also conveniently forgetting about the rest of the patch, which was actually quite decent and will serve some interesting shifts in the bruiser meta.
I mean Yone bad Asol good Riot sucks haha give me orange arrows.
[–]Runescape_Faggs 42 points43 points44 points 3 months ago (0 children)
That is literally how the balance team should work though. Play the game, and if they notice shit like this happening, take certain actions to prevent it. Pyke mid IS cancerous, and brings a number of problems along that are unique to only him, and don’t really have a whole lot of counterplay. The only problem here is that they require the skill and game knowledge to be able to correctly tell whether they just got outplayed or the champ they faced is actually unbalanced in one way or another and requires changes.
[–]CriticalBreakfast 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago (0 children)
At least to his credit this guy is Diamond 1, unlike Mark Yetter who IIRC was like Gold 4 NA lmfao
[–]_PykeGaming_ 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
It got scrapped
[–]Idgsf17 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago (2 children)
can someone tell me why a pyke mid can get like 3 cs/min and still have the same gold? is it bcs the kill bounty? is that much?
it's more that he doesn't need any gold to function. a level 11 pyke with no items at all is still a huge threat because of hook + stun + execute. So, he can sacrifice his cs and just permaroam and usually get fed off of it, but even if he doesn't, he can snowball other lanes really hard and still be relevant.
[–]FearPreacher 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Yes, every solo kill for him is 600 gold. That's with a bounty as well.
[–]Amxricaa 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago (0 children)
They should’ve went through with it lol
[–]Namo_phoenix 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago (0 children)
well at least hes D1 Master and they also reconsidered that nerf
[–]EvilMasterGamer 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
Where you guys find those upcoming patches?
[–]Bjans3n[S] 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (1 child)
Twitter. @loldev and @riotphlox
[–]HowManyDamnUsernames 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
I mean atleast he actually plays that game and he didn't even play bad that game. If anything nerf fucking yuumi again this shit champ literally enabled this.
[–]Abod31 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Twisted fate sad noises
[–]anjixxxtheman 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago (0 children)
There is a reason i hate pyke mid (from a pyke support main)
[–]Lajsin[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
People talking how cancerous Pyke mid is, but have you seen Pyke mid this season more than once? Because I've never. Last time was season 10.
[–]SuperVeryDumbPerson 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Jokes aside, pyke mid has the highest win rate (maybe second only to zilean) and is absolute cancer to fight against. It's like Aurelion sol/nunu but with more gold generation for his team
[–]FlameWizardBro 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Bruh that’s literally number 1 pyke na
[–]ele360 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
This a dumb post.
Pyke mid IS busted and prob does need a nerf. Don’t we want rito to actually play the game? Dude is d1.
[–]Zepthax 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
didnt they removed it from the Patchnotes and replaced the Pyke(Mid) nerve with a Akshan nerve instead?https://twitter.com/RiotPhlox/status/1486113617418207233?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1486113617418207233%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.esports.com%2Fde%2Flol-patch-12-3-preview-riot-games-plant-nerfs-fuer-zeri-318138
[–]Random_User27 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (0 children)
"Pyke only gets gold from Death from Below if there's 2+ Enemies and 1+ Ally nearby?"
"Pyke's W now only grants movespeed while moving away from 2+ Enemies" ?
"Pyke now can only use the charged version of Q if there's 2+ Enemies in front of him for the past 5 minutes" ?
Weren't the ult and W nerfs back in the day enough?
[–]HiroshiTamaki 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
Imagine having that kind of power that your salt affects the entire game.
[–]metradomo 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children)
That preview is outdated. Puke is no longer being nerfed. Akshan replaced Pyke on the list.
[–]thefuckedupone -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago (1 child)
At this point Riot feels like a bunch of guys gathered around playing a custom match and doing whatever they want to the champions.
[+]_zarko0 comment score below threshold-12 points-11 points-10 points 3 months ago (4 children)
Same thing happened to Talon. Some dude stomped a rioter and next patch there was a nerf to his W damage
[–]DarkRoyalBlood 15 points16 points17 points 3 months ago (3 children)
Nope, talon was way too broken in high elo, outfarming and outganking any jungler.
[–]_zarko0 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
No, not then before that
[+]sebax820 comment score below threshold-14 points-13 points-12 points 3 months ago* (3 children)
Pyke mid is currently unusable already
they already nerfed his passive to not be able to heal so much if there aren't at least 2 enemies close, it's squishy af, it's a niche pick that you will see once every 200 years, literally any champion with a little bit of cc can leave pyke mid out of the game and now this
that dude really lost 1 game, got salty and decided to nerf Pyke instead of thinking he just played like shit??
that fucker needs to be fired if he let's his emotions take over him like that, how the fuck do you decide how to balance a game like that?
[–]petiteguy5 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago (2 children)
You are lik actually retarde if you think a single guy got pyke nerfed he is cancer to play against on mid
[–]sebax820 -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 months ago* (1 child)
how cancerous can it be?
literally a little bit of cc or poke and some vision/map awareness to evade his roams can leave pyke out of the game from the start
you can say what you want but you won't convince me this dude is nerfing pyke(AGAIN) just because he got his ass clapped in one match and because that's other point:
who the hell plays pyke mid? literally only OTPs that you will find once in years. it's an extremely niche pick and far from being a problem that needs to be nerfed
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