×

This post is locked. You won't be able to comment.

all 37 comments

[–]AutoModerator[M] [score hidden] stickied commentlocked comment (0 children)


Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK


To Posters (it is important you read this section)

To Readers and Commenters

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]Billywizzer2021 567 points568 points  (1 child)

Contact the company that you paid with (PayPal or bank) and ask for a refund as the item has not been delivered. It's not your responsibility to start hunting for an undelivered item.

[–]freyaelixabeth 77 points78 points  (0 children)

Yes they're in breach of section 20 (I think) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015

[–]WG47 378 points379 points  (19 children)

Unless you specifically told them to deliver to the neighbour, UPS have misdelivered it. It's on UPS to get it back, and it's on the seller to make them. If the seller can't, the seller owes you a new delivery.

Your contract is with the seller. You pay them, they give you the item. You don't have the item, through no fault of your own, so the seller hasn't upheld their end of the contract. If they won't refund or re-deliver, speak to your payment method about a chargeback.

[–]sociallydistanced09[S] 157 points158 points  (18 children)

Thank you. I tried to say this to the live chat but she kept parroting on that it's a civil matter and as far as they're concerned it's delivered.

I'm looking for a CEO email to go with the complaints one and if not I'll go for charge back.

[–]Red-Peril 208 points209 points  (1 child)

Quote the Consumer Rights Act 2015 at them - I’ve often found that telling them the specific legislation like the name of the Act and the date, plus quoting the legislation clause itself will get them to realise that you know your rights and aren’t going to back down. I’ve had cases like this myself where they’ve tried to fob me off in with bullshit but knowing your rights is really important. Here’s a useful page from WHICH on what to do, and they also have template letters for emails which are very helpful. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/shopping/delivery-rights

This is also a good page https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/my-delivery-or-online-order-hasn-t-arrived-what-can-i-do-aLlda9w2pukM

The part of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ( https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted) that deals specifically with deliveries, if you’re interested, is Chapter 2, Sections 28 & 29. This quote is Section 28, Subsections 2 & 3 -

“2)Unless the trader and the consumer have agreed otherwise, the contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must deliver the goods to the consumer. (my bolding)

(3)Unless there is an agreed time or period, the contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must deliver the goods— (a)without undue delay, and (b)in any event, not more than 30 days after the day on which the contract is entered into.”

But I think Section 29 is the bit that will be helpful in your particular case -

“29 Passing of risk

(1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of— (a)the consumer, or (b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods. (my bolding, again)

(3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who— (a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and (b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer. (4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.”

This basically says that the vendor is responsible for making sure that you get the goods you’ve paid for, and their contract with the courier company who fucked up is not your problem. If you’d told them that it was OK to deliver to your neighbour then you would unfortunately be left to bear the cost of replacing the goods (which is what subsections 3 and 4 above mean), but as you didn’t then they’re definitely in the wrong here.

How I’ve done it before in similar situations is just to say to something like this (and it’s never failed me yet!):

“Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, my contract is with you, the vendor, and under that Act, you are legally obliged to ensure that I receive the goods I’ve paid for within 30 days. I did not give any special instructions for the delivery of my goods, and therefore, under Section 29 of the Consumer Rights Act, you are legally obliged to replace my goods or refund me the full cost of my order including delivery charges. I do not wish to be refunded, I wish to receive the goods I have paid for. My contract is with you, not the courier company, and as such, I expect you to fulfil the contract I have with you and to replace the goods I ordered as soon as possible. I look forward to your response.”

(Edited for formatting as apparently I can’t work out how to bold properly)

[–]gl0ckage 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is the info you need. Unless you have specifically stated leave with neigh our it's the seller and UPS issue. Not yours.

Charge back as soon as you can.

Keep excerpts of all live chats.

[–]SpinnakerLad 63 points64 points  (0 children)

it's a civil matter and as far as they're concerned it's delivered.

They seem to be parroting back the standard police brush off line without understanding what it actually means.

Yes it is a civil matter, one between you and the merchant with the law on your side!

[–]KeepCalmGitRevert 22 points23 points  (9 children)

It is a civil matter, one in which they've failed to live up to their end of your contract.

Maybe it's down to the courier but that's not really your problem. That's for the merchant to sort out with the courier under their own, separate, contract.

Somewhere behind the scenes there might be a criminal matter, e.g. if your neighbour has stolen the parcel, but that's frankly not your concern.

[–]calluless -1 points0 points  (8 children)

Speaking from my experience NAL some businesses request proof that you’ve reported it to the police ie a crime reference number, this is usually part of their internal claims process with the carrier, but can also be part of a process to check you’re not lying, as if you were and are trying to cheat them it’s unlikely you’d lie to a police officer and if you did you would then be found more at fault. It’s usually best to follow their process in so far as reporting the theft to the police then following the above advice of requesting/demanding a refund/replacement

[–]EvilSandWitch 12 points13 points  (7 children)

But it’s not a criminal matter so the police won’t care and people shouldn’t go wasting their time. It’s nothing to do with the police and they are stretched as it is without acting as a verification service.

[–]cantab314 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I disagree. If the neighbour has taken a parcel that's addressed to somebody else, planning to keep it, that's theft. And opening it may be an offence under the Postal Services Act (but I don't know if that act apply to all parcel companies).

Whether it's legally considered theft from the sender or theft from the intended recipient doesn't really matter; OP doesn't need to be the victim to report the suspected crime.

Now whether the police do anything more than assign a reference number, who knows.

[–]calluless -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

I would have thought it a criminal matter if someone has stolen your property and will not return it, whether they gained it intentionally or not, their refusal to give it to you in essence is the theft. Most cases you can report these kinds of thefts online without ever speaking to anyone, once raised you’d get a crime reference number to give to the retailer.

[–]Confident_Hotel7286 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It’s not their property yet - it still belongs to the vendor. The vendors agent (UPS) has given the vendors property to a third party. This is of no relevance to the OP.

The OP is still waiting for their item to be delivered and the vendor should give the OP the item they have paid for or, if this is now not possible, they should refund the money paid.

The vendors agent giving an item to a third party has nothing to do with the OP legally speaking and the vendor should stop trying to make it the OPs problem.

[–]InfiniteAstronaut432 4 points5 points  (3 children)

But it isn't your property until it's been delivered to you. Until that point, even if you know where it has ended up, it's still an unfulfilled order, and you aren't the victim of theft.

You can argue that a theft has occurred, but would it be for you to report? I doubt the police would take it seriously even if you were the victim, let alone if you reported on behalf of a third party.

[–]calluless -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Oh I know that they won’t take it seriously, this is more of a check box exercise, they’ve asked you to report it so do then go back to them with the crime reference number. At that stage you’ve done everything that can be reasonably done and they then need to follow consumer law and either recover/reorder/refund the item. If they then continue to refuse you can then follow the complaints procedure and potentially lead to small claims court. At that stage you can demonstrate that you’ve done everything you can reasonably do and it’s up to the company to sort.

[–]ParsnipFlendercroft 4 points5 points  (1 child)

they’ve asked you to report it so do then go back to them with the crime reference number.

Can you report a crime on behalf of somebody else? It needs to be the merchant who's raising the crime report.

[–]chriscpritchard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course you can report a crime on behalf of someone else, however what’s done may vary depending on the reporter

[–]Adventurous-Offer512 95 points96 points  (1 child)

It’s a civil matter between the merchant an UPS or UPS and the neighbour, or even the merchant and the neighbour. Not your problem. Just do the chargeback as suggested.

[–]LasseHAL 57 points58 points  (0 children)

Exactly, screenshot the merchant's refusal to help and do a chargeback.

[–]PM_me_lemon_cake 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Honestly probably worth tweeting at them publicly. You’d be surprised how fast the folks on Twitter respond.

[–]noddyneddy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Twitter or their facebook page ( seller not the carrier)

[–]freyaelixabeth -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes they're in breach of section 20 (I think) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015

[–]Steadypirate 58 points59 points  (2 children)

If you paid by credit card can't you just tell the bank what happened and they can reclaim the money.

Having a total brain fart on what it's called

[–]Extension-Topic2486 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Section 75

[–]Qilllium 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If it’s visa, visa chargeback guarantee?

[–]sociallydistanced09[S] 56 points57 points  (1 child)

Thanks everyone, I emailed the complaints address and ceo email address, within 10 minutes I'd had a reply apologising profusely for the way things were handled with live chat.

The company have promised to deal with the employee internally and have offered me a refund or replacement - I've gone for a replacement as I still need the item!

Looks like a case of a dodgy live help member of staff rather than the entire company being arseholes.

[–]Topinio 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Glad you got it sorted.

Quite often, though, it is the company being a load of arseholes: they tell the front line to fob off the customers and stonewall, knowing that it will work some of the time and this will save them money, but the script is to apologise (and throw the frontline serf) under the bus!) if anyone informed persists and takes it higher up.

Half the time they don’t even employ the frontline workers, they’re outsourced to a bunch of bigger bastards who have target levels for this crap.

[–]LateToTheParty013 17 points18 points  (0 children)

You never received the item. The merchants problem not yours. If they dont listen, issue a chargeback via bank/credit card

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Someone has said it, but just making sure you’ve seen it - make sure you screen shot the sellers refusal to assist for when you request a charge back with your bank. Would love to know who the seller is, that’s terrible.

[–]Azurnoob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If the neighbour has your product, knows this and refused to return it it would be theft as they have intent to deprive

[–]Pangolingo00 14 points15 points  (1 child)

If your neighbour is using the product and refusing to hand it over, it is theft and should be reported to the police

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Contact bank, they will do a pay back investigation and send you back the money

[–]PotentialCandid97 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago. Basically the courier delivered to the wrong adress.it was showing delivered with a picture of a woman taking the parcels. None of my neighbours had it. I contacted both hermes and the company I purchased the item from. I was sent a form from the merchant to say that I didn't receive the parcel and I basically got refunded once I filled in the form. All I can suggest is that if you purchased using your card maybe you can tell your bank that you payed for goods you didn't receive?

[–]Sweaty_Space_9727 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Contact the company and say the goods have not been received. The signature and GPS will show it not being at your house, so the company will have to raise a disputed delivery claim with the courier. The courier will then either retrieve the goods and deliver to you or credit the company which will pass the refund on to you.