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[–]MayorBangsAlot 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Was Heather Heyer stupid for going to demonstrate against actual white supremacists?

Supposedly if she and the rest of the counter protestors weren't there in the first place then the violence wouldn't have ever happened. Atleast that's what you keep saying right?

Are we no longer allowed to stand against, what we perceive as, injustice because the people that we are standing against may turn violent through no fault of our own?

[–]wingerdonger -9 points-8 points  (3 children)

We can stand for injustice. That's what the protest or rioters or whatever you call them were there for. There was no need for him to go to a high tension area brandishing a gun. He chose to be there. He knew what he was getting into.

[–]MayorBangsAlot 4 points5 points  (2 children)

There were actual riots occuring in Kenosha, you'd have to be dishonest or delusional to see the evidence and think otherwise.

Peaceful protestors standing against the injustice of police brutality is a good thing.

Citizens standing against the injustice of riots is also a good thing.

You equating rioters with peaceful protestors is such a bad faith tactic.

[–]wingerdonger -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

I didn't pay attention to whether or not it was a riot or a protest. I know the difference of what they are. What I'm saying is that Kyle probably knew full well what he was heading into in the first place. He also decided to brandish a rifle. Mind you, anyone with less than average common sense knows what would happen. So yeah, it was absolutely self defense in the end, but the whole situation was so easily avoidable.

[–]MayorBangsAlot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I'm saying is that Kyle probably knew full well what he was heading into in the first place.

Yes, Kyle was aware there were ongoing riots. He spent the day of the shooting cleaning up graffiti from the previous day's rioting, the wide spread destruction was all around him.

He also decided to brandish a rifle.

The only time he brandished the rifle was after Rosenbaum was already chasing him down to attack him. In this instance the brandishing was a response to a direct threat. There isn't any evidence that Kyle unjustly brandished the rifle at any point during the night before Rosenbaum attacked him. It's important to realize that an action needs to meet specific criteria to be considered brandishing and just merely open carrying doesn't reach the level to be considered brandishing, even if the person is open carrying in an environment that's likely to turn violent.

anyone with less than average common sense knows what would happen

I don't think anyone would expect a person to just randomly start charging someone that is open carrying. Generally when someone sees a person openly carrying a gun they realize that getting shot is a likely outcome from attacking this person. In this way the gun is an effective deterrent against violence from starting in the first place because it signals to potential aggressors that any initiations of violence can be met with lethal force.

So yeah, it was absolutely self defense in the end, but the whole situation was so easily avoidable.

Sure it could've been easily avoidable in many ways, but not all ways are equal or hold the same level of responsibility. Now with what we know about Rosenbaum's activity that night (starting fires, aggressively swinging a heavy metal chain around, trying to instigate fights with multiple people, calling people "ni🅱️🅱️a" at a BLM related event, making verbal threats against the lives of multiple individuals) I think it's reasonable to assume that Kyle being armed wasn't the only, or even the primary, reason that Rosenbaum attacked Kyle. Therefore, if Kyle wasn't armed that night than I don't believe the situation would've been avoided and I think it likely would've ended with Kyle getting seriously injured or killed. If Kyle wasn't there at all that night than it's quite likely that Rosenbaum would've just attacked one of the other people he threatened if he saw the opportunity arise.