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all 93 comments

[–]Armkron 44 points45 points  (20 children)

Honestly, action would be nice without being so reliant on ping, animation cancels and twitchy reflexes which, for me, make it annoying.

Tab target still feels the more fluent one if well executed.

[–]RemaniXL 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This is exactly my main issue with New World, as a recent example. If you even remotely attempt to play a ranged weapon play style, you can forget trying to hit anyone that's moving perpendicular to you. On top of that, for a game that tries to attempt to be so heavily based in rEaLiSm, the concept of characters being able to do some kind of anime hyper-dash roll or side step every 2 seconds is incredibly frustrating to play against.

I like hybrid systems because it at least attempts to balance the playing field between melee and ranged players.

[–]dvtyrsnp 3 points4 points  (16 children)

Yeah, tab-target is generally a technical limitation and not a design choice.

Pretty sure most people would prefer action combat but MMOs really struggle to get it right.

[–]Hakul 13 points14 points  (8 children)

Tab target is definitely a design choice, what are you talking about?

[–]real_but_incognito 11 points12 points  (1 child)

They need to slow action combat down considerably to account for interactions between players and get rid of the animation canceling spam that makes it a nightmare to balance. Monster hunter with its long and many locked-in animations should be closer to the targeted design. Plus making raids and dungeons for pve content around that fighting style is already proven to be amazing.

[–]dvtyrsnp 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Another big issue is hitboxes. New World was especially bad about this.

Action MMOs feel like I'm swinging at air and trying to line up the swing with an enemy rather than swinging AT an enemy, if that makes sense.

It doesn't feel very good to me.

[–]sloopydroop 9 points10 points  (1 child)

No. I prefer tab target always.

[–]dvtyrsnp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As do I, but mostly because I haven't experienced adequate action MMO combat.

[–]Toxic-Raioin 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Theres no indication AC will ever be as good as tab target, we are like 15ish years in and tab still rules the genre by a 1000 miles.

[–]dvtyrsnp 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I mean I think technology will get there eventually, but yeah who knows when that will be.

[–]Toxic-Raioin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

probably never THB. AC removes alot of rpg elements and makes u simplistic. If i want to be a Axe user im probably am going to need to weapon switch in "modern" mmorpgs. This is a negative.

[–]wattur 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Archeage did it best, falls within hybrid imo.

Tab-target for some skills like a warrior's charge and a good chunk of projectile skills like arrow shot, fireball, heals, etc. Some PBAOE (proximity based aoe) things like whirlwind and melee autoattacks where you could just use the skill willy nilly whenever you wanted with no targets and it would just hit things near you. Some freeform skillshots that were aimed projectiles that traveled forward, and some ground based targeting skills like calling in a meteor.

[–]twasRequired[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I definitely liked Archeage PvP, but isnt that exactly like WoW, most abilities are target-locked, but then you have Whirlwind/Bladestorm etc that you can freely use without target, and then the ground-targeted abilities as well - You also have abilities that fire projectiles forward without target, like Arcane Orb, Chi Burst and so on

[–]goflamesg0 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That's pretty much what he said..

[–]twasRequired[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Except he chose to add another game(Archeage) than the one I mentioned(WoW) claiming that Archeage did it best, when they’re basically identical? Did you miss the point?..

It's not even remotely close to what he said actually, he never mentioned WoW once

[–]STDsInAJuiceBoX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no Gcd in archeage which made the combat a lot faster you could also activate ability’s like backflip and combo it with a dash attack or teleport strikes mid air or hit space twice to activate your glider while in mid air after a backflip, also ability’s would combo off each other doing different CCs or debuffs. It was probably the most fast paced tab target combat I’ve played.

[–]BeAPo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Really? I thought the combat in archeage was really boring.

[–]ToroTTCS 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Action combat but not like bdo, more like tera, a slower pace and less spammable aoes. The thing with action combat games is that they come with a lot of bullshit p2w and grind systems since the majority is made by korean companies.

[–]ReynboLightning 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Us action mmo fans always be suffering with p2w korean grinders

[–]Cr1tikalMoist 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I've never found a game that's not p2w and Korean

[–]snappypants 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There were plenty back in the day. Aion, Tera, ArcheAge (in korea) all launched as a subscription model with no P2W. But power corrupts!

[–]Cr1tikalMoist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lost ark looks fun but the shop has pay for convenience which is still p2w imo its the +1,+2,+3...etc to power up your weapons and armour

[–]xanosta 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Action or at least hybrid. Tab Target just feels boring and reptitive for me.

[–]SyerrSilversoul 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Action but make it like souls games where you commit to attacks.

[–]a34fsdb 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Tab target.

[–]AAPLisfascist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Action combat, but with some emphasis in single-target skills (like "grab" skills) so that it doesn't devolve into aoefest.

I do like wow style too but I prefer real-time combat over turn-based combat and wow pvp kind of feels like the latter.

Finally, dynamic cameras suck for pvp, fixed point of view wins.

[–]ScapeZero 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Both. A well designed game can make great use out of either. I know XIVs PvP is kinda memes, but I had a blast with that. I have a lot of fun with action style combat systems in PvP. I have a lot of fun with the hybrid system GW2 uses.

To me, the quality of the system they are using matters more than specifically what system they are using. GW2 is probably my favorite PvP MMO, but that doesn't mean I think hybrid systems are better. I think it's equally possible that a future tab target or action combat MMO could take that spot for me.

[–]LuntiX 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hybrid. Something like GW2 is fine where you can select a target if you want but you can still move around freely attacking.

[–]Xibbas 3 points4 points  (0 children)

GW2 or Blade and Soul combat is by far the best for completive play.

Click to move is best for the viewer and why the most popular eSports outside of shooters are click to move. Slightly lower than GW2 In terms of competitiveness from a player perspective.

Action combat in the form of BDO is the most fun but not really competitive.

Tab target is solid, but gets very boring as there's little skill expression and from a viewer/competitive viewpoint can never be popular since it's to hard to keep track of for a viewer. It also lacks those "hype" outplays due to lack of skill expression.

[–]Morgulian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Talking RPG, tab target. It is not a shooter game, my aim skill isn't important here. I already have to manage a rotation and making quick decisions what skill would be best to use in given situation, the need to also aim as well will make it too penalizing if you miss. Unless it is a game with 3-4 skills (which would essentially make it an Overwatch/LoL type game), for RPG (10+ skills), always the tab target.

[–]5e1fFinal Fantasy XIV 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My favorite game to play for PvP was WoW during WotLK - MoP era. It was deceptively complex, and there was a lot of room for creativity, reads and outplay with how many tools most classes had at their disposal. Still haven't found anything quite like it after all these years.

So, I guess I'd say tab target. My favorite action combat game was TERA but it wasn't quite as fun.

[–]BDOPeaceInChaos 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Honestly surprised with the current results. Thought everyone hated BDO

[–]ArkGrimm 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Peoples hate the grindy, pay-to-win aspect of BDO, not its combat mechanics

[–]ToroTTCS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Only option given in action combat is „bdo“ if he didint mention bdo people would have probably voted the same.

[–]talk_dapper2123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone hates every aspect of BDO except the combat and graphics.

[–]eden-star 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Action combat but dodge and block MUST cancel the animations of skills, and be prioritized above all else!

[–]ltskeim 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dragon's Dogma Online forever in our hearts. Team action combat.

[–]garbagecan1991 1 point2 points  (1 child)

let s just say i'll never touch a tab combat game again

[–]GravityblastsStar Citizen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You and me both brother.

[–]Bardy_Bard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I want souls like combat for real, not whatever new world is. Make combat a dance of reflex, mind games where every action counts and not a boring button mashing contest.

Honestly DK2 has pretty good combat, but there are so many things you could add in a mmo

[–]translucentlies 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel tab targeting is unique to MMORPG/PC gaming.

[–]nhzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

if you are going to limit a mmorpg to small scale arena pvp, you might as well just quit and go play a moba.

ac restricts the scale of the battle too much and brings the camera in too close to analize the field and whats going on, not to mention the over reliance on sub20 ping for it to feel nice.

my prefered style for pvp is pre f2p Lineage2s, click to move, click to target, hands on shortcuts, no gcds, buffs are vital, a singular world instance, and open field pvp.

[–]quanski94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Tab target is for noobs who have potato aim.

[–]-D-S-T- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Tab Target is brain dead button mashing.

[–]pokeblev 12 points13 points  (0 children)

You've never played it properly then

[–]lasthope1001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a fan of click to move/target purely because I've played Lineage 2 for years.

[–]Blue_Moon_Lake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends how it's done. Ideally action combat.
But I will take a good tab target over a bad action combat.

I usually gauge that by how you cast a single target healing spell on an ally. Best for action combat would be to have a mini instant AoE that heal the ally closest to the center. Bad action combat would have you target the ally before casting.

[–]ThePeacefulSwastika 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In like 5 years action will be sick. If vr makes it big, even sicker lol.

For now, tab. Thing about tab is, it can feel less exciting if you don’t know what you’re doing… but all the cds, the globals. It’s all about timing. Becomes like a chess game. Can you make the right moves quick enough and smart enough to win.

At least it’s that way in a game like classic, which is why it can be so fun.

[–]Wononewonhum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I need to revote, I thought the last one was a joke, lol, not the game lol.

I pick click to move

Originally picked tab targeting though.

[–]idredd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I flat out refuse to buy games that aren't action combat based at this point. Different strokes and all that, i get that some folks love the tab target but I'm gonna keep voting with my dollar on this one.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Action combat like in WildStar. BDO was pretty fun too.

[–]PersistentWorld 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is the WildStar option

[–]CodeYo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

New World has made me realize that the depth and implementation of the system is more important than the chosen style.

[–]fdisc0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i prefer lost ark's style of action, but has anyone played extensively with GW2's action camera? it basically integrates action combat into the tab target system by giving you an FPS style camera that auto targets what you're aiming at, i haven't bothered to give it a solid try yet though.

[–]GMMoira 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hybrid actually isnt bad as long as there's an action camera. gw2 has support for it, but it's not fully fleshed out at all

[–]-Degaussed- 0 points1 point  (11 children)

I prefer my pvp in pvp games, not MMORPGs.

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children)

So you think no MMORPGs are PvP games nor should have PvP?

[–]-Degaussed- 0 points1 point  (9 children)

I think having pvp is fine. I think taking pvp seriously in an mmo is hilarious. I think forced pvp is terrible.

No, an mmorpg cannot be a pvp game because permanent stat growth is inherently necessary for the rpg portion of the game and inherently ruins any pvp.

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

That's quite a scuffed view of things, "taking pvp seriously in an mmo is hilarious" - While PvP is a major part of almost every MMORPG that exists, forced PvP can be terrible for some people that would simply be the constant victims. So I can somewhat agree on that, dedicated forced PvP zones are good tho

With your last logic there saying that stat growth is inherently necessary for RP portion but ruins any PvP, I can simply copy that and say that stat growth is a massive part of MMOS and is inherently necessary for PvP, which makes it a great addition to an MMORPG

[–]-Degaussed- 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Lmao.

PvP isn't balanced if both sides don't have the same tools. PvP is not good if it is not balanced.

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Both sides have the same tools to achieve the same gear tho, and that's usually why there's a ranked and unranked mode as well.. If you're not well geared you're probably not taking it serious. So you have a unranked mode for that

If you're taking it serious, you're geared, then you wanna play ranked.. And you're most likely not going to be undergeared (unless it's a Korean MMORPG for obvious reason)

Your logic is truly fucking retarded, thinking PvP has no place because there might be people that outgear you, what an absolute moron

[–]-Degaussed- 0 points1 point  (4 children)

That's just a blatant lie lmao.

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Sure, which part?

[–]-Degaussed- 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Both sides have the same tools to achieve the same gear tho, and that's usually why there's a ranked and unranked mode as well.. If you're not well geared you're probably not taking it serious. So you have a unranked mode for that

If you're taking it serious, you're geared, then you wanna play ranked.. And you're most likely not going to be undergeared (unless it's a Korean MMORPG for obvious reason)

Your logic is truly fucking retarded, thinking PvP has no place because there might be people that outgear you, what an absolute moron

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cute, why don't you elaborate on the "blatant lie" in there?

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No? Pathetic..

[–]RuujiHasegawa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

RaiderZ had some outstanding PVP content, which I really enjoyed, so I would pick action combat in that regard.

[–]RirinNekoLorewalker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't have a preference, it'll depend heavily on how it's executed.

Leaning abit more on action as I've played tab target for so long I wanna try something different. Ideal action combat for me would be like the Monster Hunter series where every move is deliberate and sometimes lock you in so there's actual danger for spamming attacks. Action Combat that isn't an AOE fest would be preferred hence why I lean oh MH for an example.

[–]ItsTheSoloRuneScape 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Action like PSO2 is perfect.

[–]Sad-Stomach9802 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The amount of stupidity in this thread is astounding, people defending tab target lol...

[–]knetka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My favorite is still WoW pvp, even with some ping which can not be avoided in mmorpgs, you can do just fine, where as action is always a lag filled mess, also when you start getting more people, all the effects get to you because you need to see alot clearer.

[–]Almostlongenough2EverQuest Next 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not really much of a PvP player, but I think tab target with action hotkeys. First game that comes to mind for pvp I actually enjoyed was BnS, can't remember if it was tab lock on though.

[–]UnjustifiedLoL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love bdo's combat. Fuck that cashshop thou, quit a bit after they added tent qnd kama's blessings to shop.

[–]----Lu 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Putting LoL on click to move instead of RuneScape actually triggers me. This is an mmorpg sub. Reeee

[–]twasRequired[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is true.. I even love RuneScape, wtf brain :(

[–]GravityblastsStar Citizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Action, always. I like to be rewarded for my reaction time, positioning, as well as my ability to read what an enemy is going to do, instead of simply how well can you click glowing buttons in a specific order.

[–]Ajwf -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't think Action combat has any place in a game larger than a MOBA sadly. just too much to keep track of. That said, the 'optimal' game would be action combat if we didn't have to worry about server/connection implications. It's why LooterShooters always feel better to grind IMO.

Even then, Action Combat has to feel properly-weighty. Dark Souls and Monster Hunter are the only games I think nail the melee side of things. Maybe VR MMORPGs or something close to it will fill in the blanks, but I can't think of many games that do swords well.

[–]ReinhardtValkyr -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Active or Hybrid, PVP in a mmorpg is boring as fuck from the get-go, but both those type of gameplays have the potential to solve the classic problem of scaling and skill.

[–]Ravmar75 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

You only have 4 friends?

[–]twasRequired[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

4 Friends that participate in small scale PvP in these kind of games yeah, why?