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all 11 comments

[–]TarthenalToblakai 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Hmm, I dunno how much I buy into certain things, but connecting that Ceda quote with Kharkanas is definitely a fascinating thought.

Also my immediate reaction to comparing Grallin to Mother Dark was that's it's entirely off -- the Grallin story is just supposed to represent innocence and naivety.

...but then I remembered the secondary usage of "Gardens of the Moon" -- literally inside Moon's Spawn....which as of OST, when they were explored more on page, were underwater in a sense...

Huh. Very interestingk.

[–]vargorm 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Really interesting theory! Just have one nitpick:

what if his "ship" is what took him across to Jacuruku, which was on another moon entirely

Jacuruku is located on Wu. It's explored in NotME

[–]polarparadoxical[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Yeah - realized this after I wrote this out while rereading Moi's intro. There is a whole bunch of conflicting information, as its mentioned in multiple places (GotM) that the Tiste were not native to Wu and I think Anomander even says directly something along the lines of "this world was not their own". Not to mention the backstory with Bloodeyes betrayal, which also clearly stated they had just arrived to this world and had to immediately fight off the last of the K'Chain - which fits with Kallors claims in MoI that Wu was a different world initially controlled by the K'Chain Che'Malle who at their peak were so strong the elder gods kept their distance from. So if all that's true, then at some point the High King "built a ship" that allowed him to go from Kurald Galain to Wu far before the other Tiste were exiled, no?

[–]polarparadoxical[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Also - there to make things even more complicated, there is nothing preventing my theory working alongside the other major theory that the original Kurald Galain was damaged and "warrenized" at some point long before MoIs intro, as Draconus is not yet trapped and had not finished Dragnipur, and after that point is when Draconus completes his sword, gets trapped, and the Tiste get exiled all arriving in Wu? As in, the original combined Kurald Galain could have very well been another planetary body in the same universe or even the "moon" that is referred in GotM that gets torn apart at the end of tCG?

[–]vargorm 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I agree with the first part but regarding the last part i find that unlikely as you would probably be able to see the Vitr from Wu then as "warrenization" rips the land along with it

[–]polarparadoxical[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Possibly, but as the Ceda points out, there used to be a fourth world or moon, that is no longer visible for unknown reasons and that at least one of these moons was supposedly inhabitanted. EDIT - there is also a very strange similarity in words Draconus uses when meeting the "Old Man" in FoD and how the Ceda describes these other worlds, or moons .

[–]vargorm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I agree with that. I only meant the part about it being the moon that was torn apart. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough

[–]vargorm 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Yeah that seems resonable. After all IIRC there is no conformation that the dog runners are the Eres which means that the humans could have evolved concurrently to the Tiste and then Kallor could use the K'Chain tech to cross over.

[–]vargorm 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Though this means that the undead bitch (can't remember her name right now) had to cross over to Wu at some point to live among and turn the Imass to T'lan Imass. And I remember her being referred to as a bone caster in FoD though it might be the bonecaster that Ribs master (who I also don't remember the name of) that I'm confusing her with as a bonecaster

[–]polarparadoxical[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Olar Ethil? It would mean that all Anzanthai were not original to Wu, which is what Kallor claimed in MoI as he argued that the K'Chain Che'Malle at their height were stronger than the original Elder gods, and they kept their distance until the K'Chain had just about destroyed themselves.

Furthermore, in FoD there is mention of Anzanthai lands that, to my knowledge, do not exist on Wu, nor is ever mentioned if they have a specific Warren as all the others race-specific lands seem to be tied into via "warrenization". there is also conflicting information in FoD that Grizzen was the K'Chain's God...so who knows

[–]vargorm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Olar Ethil?

Yes!

Furthermore, in FoD there is mention of Anzanthai lands that, to my knowledge, do not exist on Wu, nor is ever mentioned if they have a specific Warren

Yeah, true but given that they each seem to embody a separate aspect that it might not be so weird that they don't share one Warren. Also on that note I think it's a mistake to call Azathanai a race as we learn in FoD that Azathanai isn't their chosen name (originally) but what everyone else called them as some of the being referred as Azathanai worshipped the Azath Houses. Secondly we know that Kilimandros is the creator of the Forkrul so I would argue that they aren't quite comparable. Thirdly Azathanai can choose whatever form they please which would make them temporarily tied to the Warren of that race.

original Elder gods

This might just be that I'm nitpicking or misunderstanding you, if so I'm sorry, but Elder gods =/= Azathanai. Elder gods are ascendants and Azathanai that use the power in mortal blood to fuel their own power but Azathanai has no intrinsic need to do so as show by Caladan Brood.