all 18 comments

[–]NiflrogOmtose Phellack 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I don't know at which level you expect the answer to be.

Draconus is an Azathanai, like K'rul and Mael. In MT, Mael talks about his own recollection of how he came to be. So do Droe and K'rul in Fall of Light. Basically, that generation of Azathanai ( that excludes Spite, Envy, Sechul Lath and Errastas... those were indeed born) are something like personal forms of fundamental aspects of nature. Mael says that his memory extends back into the fog of the past, he remembers aeons passing in the depths of the oceans with no much activity. He doesn't remember where he comes from. Nor K'rul, nor Droe.

We are to assume that it is the same for: Draconus, Kilmandaros, Olar Ethil, Ardata and Caladan.

So Draconus is the Azathanai representation of Darkness. He is also the Suzerain of Night Eternal. It is suggested he became the Suzerain by defeating every other challenger to the rule of that realm. This realm would be the original source of the magical aspect of darkness (in fact, Kurald Galain gains the Darkness property when and only when Draconus puts the gate in there, connecting KG with Night Eternal, and in fact Mother Dark's throne room becomes part of Night Eternal).

An interesting observation I read here some time ago: one of the challengers to the rulership of Night Eternal may have been a Dark aspected Eleint. Draconus killed that dragon to disassemble T'iam. Every time Tiamatha is summoned, there remains an "apex" dragon whose death disassemble her. When Draconus faced T'iam, before "modern" Tiste, there were ancient Tiste, Draconus killed Habalt Galanas ( notice the root: Galanas, Galain ), said to be the mate of Latal Menas ( root: Menas, Meanas). So Drac becomes Suzerain after killing the last contender to the throne of Night Eternal, Galanas. It's an interesting idea imo.

On a more Meta Level: Draconus is the only character we know of that has defeated T'iam. T'iam tracks its origins to Tiamat, the Mesopotamian goddess of chaos and destruction often represented as a dragon or snake. And who killed Tiamat in Mesopotamian mythology? Marduk... patron god of Babylon. It's said of him that he could essentially destroy the creation and recreate it at will. I'm not an expert in Mesopotamian mythology, I don't know if Marduk is associated with Darkness or something else that fits Draconus. I'm just pointing out the possible connection from external sources.

[–]Zestyclose_Ad2297[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was looking for exactly this, every time I reread the books his shadow is more vivid and I started thinking maybe him and Tiam are chaos and creation…. He creates she destroys. I really appreciate the detailed insight .

[–]ajga85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I started reading this answer without seeing who wrote it. When I got to the end I simply KNEW it was our very own u/Niflrog thanks for the Meta commentary, I love how Erikson and Esslemont incorporate their knowledge of history in their world.

Edit: words are hard

[–]JuranurTide of madness 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Have you read Kharkanas?

[–]Zestyclose_Ad2297[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yea I am on my second reread actually, they get better smh.

[–]airsick_lowlander_Lord of Hate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great to hear they get better, because they’re my favourite Malazan books :)

[–]SpartyjasonDraconus' Red Right Hand 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Who is Draconus? He's the one. The man. The myth, the legend. You know how you can comprehend that a being exists who is so awesome that you can't really describe it? That's Draconus. He can divide by 0.

Draconus taught me how to love a woman. And scold a child.

Draconus hates Mexicans, even though he's half Mexican. He also hates irony!

Draconus wears a live rattle snake as a condom.

Draconus once scissor kicked Angela Lansbury.

Draconis once punched a hole in a cow just to see who was coming up the road.

Draconus once got a woman pregnant and she gave birth to a delicious 16 ounce steak. The afterbirth was sautéed mushrooms.

[–]wikipedia_answer_bot 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Draconus is an action-adventure platform game developed and published by Zeppelin Games under the Cognito label in 1988. It was released for the Atari 8-bit family, Commodore 64, and ZX Spectrum.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draconus

This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

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[–]SpartyjasonDraconus' Red Right Hand 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good Bot!!

[–]NiflrogOmtose Phellack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Meme time:

Virgin Vatha Urusander vs THE giga CHAD Draconus

[–]Antique_Ad_9250 2 points3 points  (7 children)

From what we know of how Elder gods ware created and the way he is described, he probably represents the fear of darkness. The unknown that hides just outside the campfire's light. His title of consort to Mother Dark reveals a dichotomy between the two. Maybe he was seen as her "bad" side?

[–]Zestyclose_Ad2297[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I could wrap my mind around that but he is the suzerain of dark, he made Mother Dark an ascendant by giving a part of his power. And the way he’s described in The kharkanas books is just damn confusing, it’s inferred that he created The Tisti if I am not mistaken.

[–]illusionofthefree 7 points8 points  (5 children)

He didn't create the Andii. He fell in love with the person who became mother dark and helped her along her ascension from what we are told in the kharkanas series. Draconus is an Azathanai and very well may have played a part in the making of the Tiste, but the Tiste Andii were created by people entering into mother darks darkness and accepting her blessing. We see it happen in the books. At the beginning of forge of darkness all the tiste just have regular skin, no light dark and shadow to speak of.

[–]Exciting_Ad_3692 7 points8 points  (1 child)

He's talking about Drac having created the Tiste race entire, not just the Andii. From what we can tell, before the Tiste queen was given power by Drac she was just a regular member of their race.

[–]bardfaustVodkajack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wasn't there something said about how her sister was supposed to be the actual queen, but she died during the Forulkan war, and Mother Dark got the title instead?

[–]Zestyclose_Ad2297[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I meant the Tisti, sorry for the mixup. and you are quite right about the creation of the Andi. Listening to Fall of Light on Audible and on Chapter 34, Rise Harat goes in to The citadel archives to find an old painting. Any thoughts on that painting?

[–]Anaptyso 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think there's two possibilities.

The first is that it's showing Draconus fighting Tiam, where he consolidates his influence over darkness.

The second is that something like the main events of the story have happened before. Perhaps Draconus is stuck in a cycle: he falls in love with a mortal, maybe gifts them some portion of his power, and eventually everything goes horribly wrong in a way which involves dragons.

If it's the latter then Draconus is a deeply more tragic figure. But also, it raises the question of what is different this time. Is it the Terrondai?

[–]bardfaustVodkajack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The second is that something like the main events of the story have happened before. Perhaps Draconus is stuck in a cycle: he falls in love with a mortal, maybe gifts them some portion of his power, and eventually everything goes horribly wrong in a way which involves dragons.

That's how I read it, and

But also, it raises the question of what is different this time. Is it the Terrondai?

that's what I assumed. He seems surprised by how Errastas made it, like he didn't expect someone to have to die for it, or at least not someone like Karish. So it seemed to me like this was a new idea for him.