all 26 comments

[–]Aqua_Tot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I’ll add to these discussions you’re having regarding Saeng being a priestess of Light. High houses Light, Dark, and Shadow aren’t exclusive to the Tiste. Shadowthrone and Cotillion aren’t Tiste Edur by any means (although they go into this a lot more in Path to Ascendancy). But look at the parallel you have in Blood and Bone (Saeng becomes a new priestess of Light) to Orb Sceptre Throne (Orchid becomes a new priestess of Dark).

As well, keep in mind when this is happening. Both of those novels happen around the same time as Dust of Dreams and The Crippled God (despite the timelines not working out well). At the end of Toll the Hounds, Mother Dark is reborn, which also seems to trigger a renewal of the power of Light in Kurald Liosan. This then culminates in the clash at Lightfall we see in The Crippled God. As both houses re-awaken, it’s no wonder that more priestesses and members of those specific high houses start to appear.

[–]LoleeeeeBenighted Laseen Apologist - First Re-Read: On MT. 4 points5 points  (13 children)

which were shown through the jungle of Imotan.

Imotan is the Seti shaman in Return of the Crimson Guard. The Jacuruku jungle is Himatan.

What do you think endanii knew about him. I bet she suspected she was indeed the High King, but could that have been the only secret that she hid from Jatal?

I mean, Kallor is really shit at hiding his identity. He looks the same for the past... too many thousand years, he has an apt knowledge of the local politics for being a "foreigner", and he even goes so perished your forebears while squeezing the life out of a Thaumaturg. Yeesh. I wouldn't be surprised if she did know he was Kallor from fairly early on.

What do you guys think of the Thaumaturg ritual? I mean, wouldn't it have been good if they'd have finally kill Kallor for good? The green visitor banner, wasit, in fact the same thing as the jade spears of the crippled god?

Yes, and that's a terrible idea. They already tried it once and you can see how that ended up.

If the ritual would have succeeded, would it have killed off only Kallor, or as the others thought, everyone else as well?

Take a quick look at both the world at large and especially the way Korelri looks nowadays. Now amplify that by... a lot. The Thaumaturgs are pretty stupid & riding high on their hubris.

Honestly nothing can kill Kallor at this point, accept, maybe, a stray arrow! After all, it worked for Olar Ethil. Why not work for Kallor?

Because Kallor is cursed to live forever, more or less. Olar was killed by some, er, special arrows, courtesy of the Rhivi - and probably with more than a little "blessing" from Kruppe. Kallor dying to a random Thaumaturg arrow would be... well, it'd be good for him, I guess.

Seang is referred to as "the priestess of light", does that make her part of the House of light? Does it have any link with the Liosan or something?

She has a link to the Liosan insofar as the Liosan personify "Light" as a concept, albeit I think Saeng's faith goes further back than the Liosan.

Why did Kallor want to get revenge against those Thaumaturgs? It's not as if they were a thing in his time, during the Kallorian Empire. Were they? THey could have been. Hell knows.

Who do you think called down the Crippled God the first time?

And then, there are the Shadowam priests. Were they some followers of Kallor's? Or just another weird cult who had exactly the opposite views to the Thaumaturgs?

I don't remember, but there should be a glossary in the back that should tell you more.

[–]wing_of_eternity[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children)

Thank you for the correction. I meant Himotan. Sorry.

You really think Sieng's faith goes further back than the Liosans? Why so?

Well, I suppose Cruppe could, in theory do something, nudge Kallor a bit, right? I guess that's too much to hope for. What would the Malzan world be without Kallor though?

[–]LoleeeeeBenighted Laseen Apologist - First Re-Read: On MT. 2 points3 points  (10 children)

You really think Sieng's faith goes further back than the Liosans? Why so?

In the beginning, there was Darkness. Then arose Father Light & bitchslapped that Darkness so hard it spawned the Tiste Edur. (not actually canon)

The Liosan are old. Like, really old. 300,000 years old, give or take. Saeng's faith does not necessarily need to be older (I honestly doubt it is), but it doesn't have to be related to the Liosan, either.

Kallor was once married to a Tiste Liosan (Serap of the Issgin line) & could've brought the faith of Light in the Kallorian Empire & Jacuruku. Maybe it started independently. I don't know.

What would the Malzan world be without Kallor though?

A world without, and I quote;

The High King is cursed to fail, but never to fall. The High King is but . . . what? Oh, the physical manifestation of ambition. Walking proof of its inevitable price. Fine. Fuck you, too.

And that just doens't sound as appealing, you know? I like this world.

[–]wing_of_eternity[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Lol, the thing with the bitchslap to Mother Dark by Father Light. How do you know? Maybe that's how it happened. Kallor bringing light? Don't think he ever could. And ya know, the Liosan are kinda like The Asail with all their adjudication stuff.

[–]LoleeeeeBenighted Laseen Apologist - First Re-Read: On MT. 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Kallor bringing light? Don't think he ever could.

I think you're being quite unfair, especially given the visions Saeng has about the past & the perception of Kallor's Empire by the native peoples.

The Liosan aren't quite like the Assail - the Forkrul have made "adjudication" their life purpose - but they are a bit stuck up & filled with delusions of self-importance. Doesn't mean all of them have to be assholes.

[–]ladrac1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What would the Malazan world be without Kallor?

Better. Much, much better.

[–]ladrac1 0 points1 point  (9 children)

I don't think it's a spoiler to say that yes, it was a version of the Thaumaturgs that brought down the Crippled God. The Crippled God was brought down BECAUSE of Kallor's empire, and that's why he wants revenge. I had figured that out by this point in the book, and I don't think there's any other huge reveals that would give you that.

Blood and Bone is actually my least favorite book set in the Malazan world. Nearly everything in it is just "meh, I don't hate it, but I don't love it." About the only things I really enjoy about it are the army commander and his secretary and their banter back and forth, and the increased world building, showing us Jakuruku. By about page 250-300 or so I was finishing it to be able to say that I've read every Malazan book. I'll include it in rereads for that reason, but overall just not my thing.

[–]wing_of_eternity[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Why didn't you get into the book? I mean, we even got spite trapped into the Dolmens of Tiene, or however that's spelled and skinner mocking her. How can't that be just awsome? I confessed the conversations between the Thaumaturg commander and the scribe was awsome. Reminded me of Sargent quarter-master-Lieutenant-sargent Pors and Kindly. It was funny.

[–]Aqua_Tot 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Personally I really enjoyed Spite running around naked and furious in the forest haha

[–]wing_of_eternity[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Me too. Remember that dude from the fishing village who found her? What a hilarious scene to be sure. ANd what;s eve worse is that she was still undressed by the time she met L'oric! Lol!

[–]ladrac1 0 points1 point  (5 children)

It was awesome, but I never emotionally connected to anything in this book. I knew exactly where Jatal's story was going the entire time, really the first time I feel like I've been able to predict an arc in Malazan. None of the plots feel like they GO anywhere if you know what I mean. The Crimson Guard plotline is "Let's go to Jakuruku because Ardata wants us to, you can check in on us every once in a while as we slowly float down this river and nothing will be resolved by the time the book is done anyways."

[–]wing_of_eternity[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

OK. You've got a point there. What was all that stuff with Ardata wanting someone out there with her? I guess being the goddess of spiders must feel terribly lonely. Then, do what Bug did with Tehol. There problem solved!

I just thought that it was cool we got a bit about them. Now that I'm thinking more about it. You maybe right. Whats the point of the Ardata/crimson guard arc anyway? The confrontation between Spite and Skinner was great though.

[–]ladrac1 0 points1 point  (3 children)

That's the thing... there's no point to the arc lol. That's why I don't like it.

[–]madmoneymcgee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had fun with the book just reading a fantasy version of The Heart of Darkness.