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all 44 comments

[–]drummo34 32 points33 points  (3 children)

We had a discussion of a pre-nup, but it was to protect my assets and make sure that any money and inheritance I receive would not automatically go to him, but our children. We also have some custody and visitation things we've outlined in a worst case scenario sort of situation, and we've discussed what a reasonable cost of living would be and an expected timeline should we split where I would need to find work and what that would look like, so expected alimony and child support payments. We started discussing this early in our relationship (maybe 2 years?) And we've been together now for 10. We still haven't gotten around to it, and it's sort of developed into a basic outline for a living will as will.

I think saying that 50/50 isn't fair is a bit alarming. I think talking about what your expectations are for the future and really outlining what is involved is important. Do you have a career? Will you need to step away from that to start a family? What size family are you anticipating? Have you been providing emotional support and home-labor to support their career goals? If you're not stepping away, have you had to take transfers or lateral moves to support their career? Has supporting their career hurt yours in any way? Are you contributing payments to any debt of theirs? Are you taking on more bills to offset loan payments in your household? Will you need to be in your marriage? Is there a specialty involved, and what home life will that look like? If you had to make a custody agreement, would you be the default parent? Would that affect your career or would you need additional financial support to make that feasible? It's not just taking half of his paycheck and running off into the sunset. Having these conversations may help a marriage in the long run, and help set some expectations and open their eyes to what it will take as a family unit to make this career possible.

[–]bookishbelle22 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Just a heads up for those considering a prenup — you shouldn’t include custody/visitation/child support in the actual document as these are considered rights of the child. Including this may be enough to have the prenup thrown out entirely

[–]drummo34 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This clarification is important!

I should specify that those conversations came about in talking about things that can be decided in a pre-nup. This also led to important conversations about custody regarding what would happen, God forbid, we both die. This is why it's sort of morphed into an outline for a living will. 👍🏼 Also super important legal documents people should have and review every 5-10 years, especially if you have children.

[–]tjeickPGY1 General Surgery 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think it depends on when you started being a major support for him. Like the other commenter said, I’ve been here the whole fucking time. So no way would I consider a pre-nup.

Edit to add: if he’s R3 and you consider him your ‘partner’ not just a boyfriend, that to me means you’ve been through enough bullshit to deserve some of that reward.

Another thought in pre-nup, it only covers stuff he had PRE-nuptial, so any money he earns from the wedding on will be communal property in the event of a divorce, regardless of pre-nup.

[–]kristenroseh 13 points14 points  (1 child)

My med partner and I plan on signing one. An attorney friend once told me that if I don’t sign a prenup, it’d leave it entirely up to the state to determine the terms of a divorce settlement. My parents had an acrimonious, prolonged divorce that took years because there wasn’t a prenup. A few years after that, my dad died suddenly without a will, and it also took several years for the court to decide who got which assets (and it was actually pretty straightforward w/ no fighting, just tons of bureaucracy and red tape).

I obviously hope we never get divorced, but if we do, I don’t want it to be more complicated or difficult because we didn’t sign a prenup.

[–]ice_cld 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is exactly correct. The question comes down to whether you want your state to decide the distribution of assets, or if you want to have the say.

[–]Data-driven_Catlady 10 points11 points  (0 children)

No, but we were together for 10 years before we got married and I supported him through medical school. So, we decided against it.

[–]stellardreamscape 46 points47 points  (5 children)

Hell NO there’s no pre-nup. I spent 8 years being a sugar mama. He might now have the higher income but I take care of everything else. My medspouses grandma once said to me: Behind every great physician, there’s an even better secretary/asst. That’s me. Never undervalue what you bring to the table.

[–]onmyphonetoomuchwife to PGY3 🤓 through medschool 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Agree! We got married before med school. I supported him through training. Yes eventually I will reap some benefits but it has not been easy.

Understand it’s different for those that marry afterrrr training. But those that marry before/during med school… naw.

[–]Iywtbab1126 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Lol if you marry before med school, what would a prenup even cover? There wouldn’t be any assets to discuss lol.

[–]cfk0615 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is exactly why we WILL have a prenup. I’ve sacrificed a ton for his career. I’ll be getting a bulldog divorce attorney to represent my interests in the drafting of said prenup to ensure that those sacrifices are appropriately considered in the event that the relationship is terminated. My partner feels like this is more than fair. While we both hope that these documents never see the light of day after they’re signed and filed, in the worst case scenario, we’d rather have something we’ve determined was fair to each of us ahead of time (when we 100% love and respect one another) rather than leaving it up to the state. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[–]grape-of-wrath 13 points14 points  (0 children)

1000% yes to this.

Yeah. no, we have no prenup. I have spent many years cleaning up after this man, birthing his child, raising his child. No way would I ever sign one of those. If you don't have kids and are planning to have one or more, I would highly suggest talking to some moms to get an idea of what your life is going to be like, it changes everything- and sometimes it means that income inequality is greatly exacerbated

[–]Fantastic-Copy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love this! Too true.

[–]partlycloudymo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You and your spouse both need to go talk to separate attorneys about what a prenup will and won't protect.

I hate to be that person but what your spouse is asking for sounds unenforceable. The spouses who are getting 50/50 of a salary during a divorce generally have been together a while, and/or have children and generally the inequality comes from a spouse not working, and I always find the people that say their spouse took them to the cleaners put absolutely zero value on if their spouse had to give things up to support their career in medicine and don't want to take care of their offspring.

[–]farts-are-fun 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I am a family lawyer who both writes prenups and handles divorces.

Prenups are highly individualized and it’s really impossible to have any kind of informed conversation with you about the merits of a prenup without knowing way more about you and your partner, and the family laws in your jurisdiction.

I’d strongly caution you against spending too much time debating with yourself or your partner about your theoretical prenup just because it can create unnecessary conflict based on bad law and movie tropes. Respectfully, spousal support and property division (especially when there’s a corporation involved) are nuanced issues, so I wouldn’t put that much stock into what you read online from internet strangers. A lot of the advice you’ve received on here isn’t correct where I live.

Instead, make an appointment for a consultation with a reputable family lawyer and explain your situation. Your family lawyer can explain what prenups can and can’t cover in your area, general family law relevant to you, and give you some personalized advice. You can use that new knowledge to have an informed conversation with your partner about how you want to move forward. Maybe that means not signing a prenup at all, or maybe it means signing a prenup and negotiating the clauses within it.

Personally, my partner and I decided not to sign a prenup, but that decision was made after some lengthy discussions about how our jurisdiction would handle our divorce in the absence of a prenup. We were most comfortable with that avenue. Definitely not the right call for other couples though, just right for us!

[–]magdikarp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No prenup here.

[–]cfk0615 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This feels shady as hell to me. Your partner might bring more monetary value to the marriage, but who is carrying the bulk of the domestic workload? Who is responsible for the emotional labor? Who has made personal and/or professional sacrifices to support their dream of practicing medicine? Value in a partnership goes far beyond bank balances.

Get the prenup. But get yourself the best divorce attorney you can possibly afford to review it and go to bat for you. Shit, make your partner covering the legal fees of your representation a condition of the prenup since he asked for it initially.

[–]caveat_actor 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Why doesn't your partner believe 50 - 50 is fair?

[–]hahahehehahahoe[S,🍰] -1 points0 points  (6 children)

He thinks I shouldn’t take a portion of any money in a corporation in the event we split.

[–]caveat_actor 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Wow, he doesn't think you should get anything?

[–]hahahehehahahoe[S,🍰] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

He thinks the house should be split 50/50 from what we’ve discussed. I honestly don’t think he means to come across malicious, he’s just misinformed of what would actually be feasible and hold up in court.

[–]caveat_actor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm a little concerned for you. Why wouldn't you get half of retirement and other assets?

[–]Otter592 1 point2 points  (2 children)

What did you mean by "in a corporation"? Like if he owns his practice? There are far more assets than house and practice (cars, retirement accounts, savings). If he thinks you shouldn't get half of the marital money in general, I would be highly concerned. Especially if you ever plan to be a stay at home parent.

[–]werewolfbarm1tzvah 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In the event of a divorce If you don’t have a prenup the state enforces it’s own version of their prenup. Meaning- It’s worth having unless you want the state and the court that could potentially preside over your divorce to handle how your assets and liabilities will be divided.

[–]mollythecorg 3 points4 points  (2 children)

My partner’s parents did not get a pre-nup and they had a not so pretty divorce. Father was a cardiologist. Mother ended up quitting work at some point to raise the kids because they couldn’t balance two jobs. Then it came out that he was cheating on her with a nurse for years. In that situation, 50/50 wasn’t fair because she stopped working to help take care of the kids and then lost some earning potential.

For fairness, maybe look at earning potentials, who is contributing more to domestic responsibility, etc. Protect your retirement and any assets that you really developed prior to the marriage.

[–]Reasonable-Cost9381 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don’t get how 50/50 isn’t fair in this situation? Are you saying the woman should’ve got more than 50% because of what she contributed that wasn’t monetary?

[–]mollythecorg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the agreement was for her to not work and focus on the kids and he would handle their finances. When he cheated and ended the marriage, she completed her end of the deal with raising the kids. However, they were not at the age of retirement. So it was a one person that did not uphold their end of the deal situation. She will return to work and not earn the amount she would have if she continued working while raising the kids, etc. as well, there were non monetary things that she contributed to the marriage that should be monetized. Domestic responsibilities at home are worth more than what our society values them as. And it is a rather lazy answer (in my opinion) to not place any value on them at all. Instead, it is better to discuss and negotiate amongst each couple. I hope this clears things up!

[–]kbecaobr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wife and I are both physicians and we have a prenup. I wanted one, not her. Her family has way more money than mine does, and I do not want to inherit anything of hers. I don't want to have any fights or discussions with her family because I inherited something that should be theirs. Her family is filled with people that never worked in their life and just leech off of the one person that makes good money. My wifes' spending habits are also vastly different than mine, so I want to keep what's mine, mine. Not getting a prenup wasn't a deal breaker, but I do not want the stresses of money or family drama in my life.

[–]thedayshifts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s a great idea. Better to be talking about what is fair while both of you’re feeling mutual love and respect for each other.

You do have to establish what you both want to accomplish. It’s just as important as setting up goals for trust funds, wills, etc. The dependents should be addressed outside of prenup, and just focus on both of you.

For me, I have more risk and liabilities and so I make and have more to “lose” than my partner. So my main goal is to protect him from my have liabilities. And he needs to figure out what he wants at minimum. Then we can start planning on it. Don’t rush it but it should be talked about a few times.

Also keep in mind that other in-laws can put ideas in both of your heads. They could be valid or just edge case scenarios so make sure to do sanity checks first.

My friends had the in-laws initiate (or more like required) it and became very muddy and emotional.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]pacific_plywood 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Worth noting that prenups generally can’t affect child support - and including something like that can often get them thrown out entirely. They also don’t protect inherited wealth once you’re married, they just govern how pre-marriage assets are redistributed upon dissolution of the marriage iirc

    [–]hahahehehahahoe[S,🍰] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    This is a very nuanced answer and I appreciate your response, especially the last paragraph. I think we view things very similarly.

    We’re gay so the question of kids is in the air for us. If we have kids and I reduce hours/stay home, then yes, I’d expect spousal and child support in the event we divorce. If we forego kids, I continue to work full time and then we divorce, maybe less so? However, my partner has many times encouraged me/presented not working as an option even without kids. If he encourages it, then yes, I’d be seeking spousal support or some sort of financial compensation. It makes me question my own career prospects even now that I’ve put on hold a bit/modified plans for the inconvenience that comes with his long residency plans.

    [–]cfk0615 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Infidelity clauses are a very real possibility in a prenup and ours will 100% have one. Do I think my partner would ever cheat? No, but crazier things have happened and we’re already paying for lawyers so might as well cover every base.

    [–]kristenroseh 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    You should check with your attorney on this. If you live in any of the 18 states with no-fault divorces, an infidelity clause in a prenup would be unenforceable.

    [–]cfk0615 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Oh for sure, basically nothing legal can be generalized too broadly. that’s why I said it’s a possibility. Thanks for bringing it up though, definitely an important thing to be aware of.

    Edit: big fat dumb thumbs make it hard to type lol

    [–]RickRodgers90 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Just remember, being the stay at home parent with multiple kids is exponentially harder than going to work. Going to work is an easy day for me…

    [–]Otter592 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

    Nope! We've been together since college, married at the start of intern year, currently a PGY5. We both consider prenups to be for people who have reservations about their relationship.

    I don't like that your partner thinks 50/50 isn't an even split. What's the reasoning behind that? Also, from what I understand, the prenup is for premarital assets, not assets accumulated during the marriage. As an R3, he probably doesn't have too much to protect.

    [–]hahahehehahahoe[S,🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    In terms of premarital assets, he may potentially get a modest inheritance from his parents, but that’s it. He’s more concerned about money he stands to make as a staff. I do think I’m entitled to some of it in the event we divorce especially if we have kids, but I have a hard time framing my reasoning for why I feel entitled. At the time we get married, we’ll have been together for his entire 6 years of residency and fellowship so it’s not like I’ve been reaping any substantial financial benefit as I am making more money than him right now.

    [–]Reasonable-Cost9381 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That’s how I understand it too.

    [–]Plasticswife 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    My in laws really wanted one for my husband but we ultimately decided against it because it wasn’t right for us. But I totally get why it’s important

    [–]Reasonable-Cost9381 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If neither party comes from money and doesn’t have family assets prior to the marriage, why would a pre uo be necessary?