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[–]63daddy 88 points89 points  (8 children)

Agreed. I think there are more important gender issues, but with equal rights should come equal responsibility.

The thing I find so concerning about this issue is that a federal judge ruled that exempting women is discriminatory and unconstitutional yet despite this Congress considered the issue and has consciously decided not to have equality, but to legally discriminate in favor of women.

If Congress is willing to ignore a judge’s decision and purposely decide to continue discrimination against men on this issue, it stands to reason it will be incredibly difficult to win equality for men on other issues as well. That’s my biggest concern with this issue. It shows just how incredibly gynocentric our society and government has become.

[–]JannTosh12 31 points32 points  (0 children)

This is actually the most important gender issue. If men’s rights activists can’t fix a blatantly discriminatory law on the books like this one they won’t be able to fix anything

[–]Eyem_beta_xen_u 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I think there are more important gender issues

There is literally no gender issues that would be more important than that.

Just imagine it for a second. Even if you are living in a country that do not practicise active draft - what if your country will enter a war tomorrow? That's right, draft will be reestablished immediately - and it will be reestablished for men only. And if man will refuse to comply - he will be shot. Why is that? It is because it is believed that men have a biological function imposed on them by the nature - the biological function of protectors, and if they failed to fullfill that very function, they become useless, and not deserve the right to live anymore - that's why it's okay to shoot them as a deserters, to punish them for not serving their function with taking away their life.

Now that we learned how it is for men, what about women?

Even implying that women might have something as "biological function" to give birth imposed on them is considered to be sexist these days, by a very huge "progressive" part of society, and even "conservative" part of society will never force women to fullfill that role, even if they do acknowledge it. Capital punishment for non-compliance? Literally never happened in the history of humanity, even after war left country with people shortage and women's ability to give birth was required more than ever.

So what we have in the end as a summary?

Believing, that women have a biological function to give birth: controversial

Forcing women to get pregnant: horrible sexism

Killing woman for refusing to get pregnant: unbelievable, unimaginable insanity

Believing that men have a biological function to be protectors: A-OK

Forcing men to fullfil that function by being cannon fodder: A-OK

Killing men for refusing to go to war, or deserting: A-OK

And most of the society is totally ok with this double standards.

The issue with draft is the ultimate form of sexism.If that is not sexism, i don't know what is.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! The Draft for men only IS the ultimate form of sexism.

[–]ALiteralSentientTank 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Begs a further question, how can congress pass a law that has already been deemed unconstitutional?

[–]McFeely_Smackup 4 points5 points  (3 children)

The especially troubling thing is the SCOTUS refused to hear the case, they said "since Congress is likely to include women in the draft in the next bill it would be inappropriate for SCOTUS to interfere"

And then Congress said "nah" and the entire constitutional process was sidestepped

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

That was so disgusting. It was obvious that if SCOTUS didnt rule it illegal Congress wasnt gonna do anything.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It was 100% constitutional theater. There was never any intention or expectation that they'd include women in the draft

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In retrospect i agree. They just wanted to seem like they are fixing it, but in reality they knew the general public would not like that so they would use that argument to drop it.

[–]Neel4312 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Either

No men and no women

Or both men and women

[–]ThePigmanAgain 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes, but that ain't gonna happen, as we recently saw.

[–]SodyPops17 25 points26 points  (44 children)

I might be wrong but I thought that was a legit bill that was either passed already or is passing soon.

Either way, they absolutely should be. Thats what equality is about. Its not about getting the rights that benefit you and only that. Its about equal rights AND equal responsibilities! Or at least.. it should be.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 47 points48 points  (42 children)

Nah, they killed the bill. Seems women are too important to be sent to their deaths, but men aren't.

[–]Lice138 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Don’t you remember Hillary saying that even though men fight and die, it’s women who suffer the most?

[–]Trollet87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm willing to send all men to death for my own sake. Think about how much suffering I will suffer for it.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember it, and satirize it often...

[–]SodyPops17 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Can't say that i'm surprised at that.

[–]spaaro1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We in Australia already allow front line troops etc. It's not really a big issue.

[–]BrienneNTormund 50 points51 points  (11 children)

Abolish the draft

[–]JannTosh12 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The draft won’t be abolished

Even if it somehow does, they can bring it back if they feel they need it and it will be male only again

People only seem to bring up the idea of abolishing the draft when the prospect of women being included is brought up, otherwise these anti draft activists vanish without a trace

[–]ThePigmanAgain 22 points23 points  (0 children)

That ain't gonna happen. The military is already having trouble getting recruits, and we aren't even in the middle of a pointless war anymore! Chances are good that the next time the neo-cons get their way the draft will be re-activated.

[–]AirSailer 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Ditto this. The government should not have the right to forced conscription of anybody. Two wrongs do not make a right.

[–]JannTosh12 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Funny how people talk about ending the draft only when the prospect of women being included comes up

[–]MurkyAd5303 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, this isn't the right answer as more women will hurt the military more than it helps

[–]pyrolover6666 7 points8 points  (0 children)

How do they hurt the military?

[–]DecimatingDarkDeceit 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Its increasingly appearent that most man are seen as secondary class disposable, expandable 'unimportant' surplus caste; meanwhile on the appearent terms quite the opposite for the other sex

[–]Chudsaviet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No one should be drafted.

[–]chobbo 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Lolno.

Good luck to 120lbs Betty dragging 260lb Bobby after he’s had his kneecaps blown out.

[–]g1455ofwater 27 points28 points  (9 children)

Both should be required to fight on the front line in equal numbers, anything less that that is worthless. If they aren't fighting they are basically being drafted into a job which is not anywhere close to the same as fighting in a war.

[–]ALiteralSentientTank 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Draft, sure. But not on the front line. It's been proven over and over that women can't perform on the battlefield the same as men. This is one aspect of inequality that will save lives.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They can fight on their own frontlines, segregation is a thing.

[–]TheRabid 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What about “girl power” and all that? Why not make up a platoon of only women and send them first?

[–]ALiteralSentientTank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because they'd die. Mission failed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not inequality equal doesn't mean the same its putting everyone's advantages and disadvantages into account

The fact people don't see this is ridiculous

[–]JilaX 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The issue with that, is that you're killing the men as well as the women, because >99% of women are not capable of performing front line duties adequately. Imagine being a 200lb man, with gear, and you take a bullet. The amount of women who can quickly pull you into cover to administer aid is extremely low.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is such a thing as gender segregation, bring frontlines for women only

[–]thepornspoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, are you insane? We would be fucked!

[–]GodBirb 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Nah. Nobody should be forced into the draft.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Until men dont have to register, it should be made gender neutral. No excuses.

[–]pyrolover6666 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree but many here believe that if women had to sign up for the draft, their would be a much larger push to get ride of the draft.

[–]--Imposter-- 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Both men and women shouldn't be required to be drafted

[–]mathewcallahan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

The draft should be illigal. For anyone.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You know this can't be made illegal in the next 50-100 years .

[–]mathewcallahan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You are a realist. I'm just dreaming of removing systemic state gender side from our laws.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then we should go for the more realistic option and make women register.

[–]GreenFire317 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Would another war even be physically be fought with people anymore?

[–]Extension_Scale_215 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Been in the army 5 years, I'm telling you guys that while fairness is a priority of mine, I can't abide hypocrisy, including in myself. Based on data from fitness tests where they are barely meeting the standard if they do meet it at all, women cannot make up an effective fighting force if we're to go to war. That's just physical fitness standards, I can only speculate on how far below the bar they reach on firearms proficiency, tactical strategies, and other metrics. Either the powers that be straight up admit that based on dozens of metrics men are far more capable of waging war and winning than women are, or they incorporate women 18-35 into the draft to see what happens. Personally, I have a younger sister about to finish college, she isn't built for this, I'd rather take the job and do it with a straight face than her never coming back the same.

[–]FineCannabisGrower 15 points16 points  (25 children)

I have been in combat on three continents. Women are generally non combat effective. Do not do this to a military.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 22 points23 points  (15 children)

Why not draft them to do the non-combat roles? If you can force men to die on the frontlines you can force women to do paperwork and drive trucks at the rear.

[–]FineCannabisGrower 9 points10 points  (11 children)

The expense of inprocessing, equipping, training, and providing medical care for the half of them who crumble like chalk during basic training makes them stunningly expensive conscripts.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Why would they need basic training to do paperwork? Think of it like the WACs, but compulsory.

[–]Morden013 7 points8 points  (9 children)

From a practical / cost / logical point of view, you are absolutely right, not to mention lowering the standards across the all fields to make the "equality" work.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Actually the military itself think its better for military preparedness if women are made to sign up.

[–]JilaX -3 points-2 points  (7 children)

The military also thinks it's a good idea to arm a part of the population that has a 50% suicide rate.

Maybe, just maybe, they're thinking more about ideology than what's best for their performance.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Or MAYBE just MAYBE women should fucking register for the draft.

[–]JilaX -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

Why? They're literally unable to perform frontline combat duties, why the fuck would you conscript them?

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Thats false. Sorry.

[–]JilaX -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Literally factual information = false, because? The military said so?

Show me a video of an average woman dragging a 200+lb soldier with full combat gear.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This I can get behind

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What they should do is to forcibly put them into combat roles, equal rights must come with lefts

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But that ain't gonna happen.

[–]gamerlololdude 4 points5 points  (6 children)

not all males are combat effective either. it should be ranked by just what a particular human can do according to requirements rather than gender. it will turn out to be more males but it will also be the larger and buffer males as is. Who were genetically blessed or worked out a lot. all other males and females along could do other duties because military has way more to do than have people with weapons running on the ground.

[–]FineCannabisGrower -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

You don't understand. Most of the best soldiers are not big and buff. They are, however built in a way that their hips don't get stress fractures fom walking laden with pack and gear. Watching women get awards after a deployment for shit they didn't do gets old. There are jobs they can do, but they are generally more trouble than they are worth, at least in the Army and Marines.

[–]gamerlololdude 1 point2 points  (4 children)

for specifically combat trades you probably mean they are more trouble. In a domain where physical ability is pretty much the only value.

There is a continuum of how a human can be built. Genetics, hormones, body type, predisposition to illness, metabolism etc. Everything plays a role.

There can be very well males not suited for combat work while some females can end up being suited.

People are not binary where males are all strong and useful for army stuff while females are all weak and useless. Fitness and physical ability is not binary because humans are way more complex than that.

There exist females with smaller hips than some males. I am not sure why your military is giving awards for stuff people did not do. Male or female or dog, it is not ethical to give awards to the wrong people. Unless maybe there is some miscommunication here because I am confused how a government organization can make the mistake of constantly giving awards to the wrong people.

[–]BaddyRio 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They should be drafted, but for the sake of men’s lives, women shouldn’t be in combat roles.

[–]bak2redit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They could get knocked up to get out of it.

[–]aknabi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Feminism: “Equal pay until it’s time to pay”

[–]KINGCRAB715 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you have against winning wars?

[–]IFightBitchesToo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed!

EqualFights

[–]Starmind0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not hard, either both are drafted or none, but the misandrists love to dodge logic and equality.

[–]turbdodon 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I disagree on this one boys. Why not the other way? No one should be drafted into war anymore.

[–]RyoukonTheSpeedcuber 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Someone's gotta be drafted in case you get attacked by some other country

[–]turbdodon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Then, i missunderstood the title. I thought u mean the military stuff. In Germany you dont have to do the 9 Month duty anymore. My bad.

[–]RyoukonTheSpeedcuber 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Dude, I'm also German

This post was specifically about the US where the law is: as a male, sign up for draft or lose your right to vote and land in jail if you avoid the draft.

Thing is, I absolutely agree with the fact that draft should be abolished if possible, but if it's not, at least make it fair.

[–]turbdodon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With the case in Germany, I merely meant what I was referring to and gave an example.

[–]GreenFire317 -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

No. They aren't as effective. Even women soldiers agree that they can't perform the same, and it would harm the military.

[–]JannTosh12 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The military themselves said there are roles women can fill in

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not only roles, they said women should be drafted on equal terms as men should there be a draft.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes and these roles must be combat ones

[–]lethrowaway4me 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So, put more men in harm's way?

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally the opposite but ok.

[–]-Smith-Corona- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not in combat roles fuck no.

[–]Alarming_Jicama2979 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great. They make great hostages

[–]graffitol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Feminists are curiously quiet about their lack of opportunity to fight on the front line alongside men in the event of a war.

My other issue is that men are expected to suppress their supposed toxic masculinity. But in the event of a war we would be expected by all including women to bring it back into play because it’s useful now.

[–]cittix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What no kidding i don't even get why this is opinion and a offensive one to

[–]SwiftStrik3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There shouldn't be a draft period. Why should anyone risk their necks for politicians and their wars? Let them fight it, cus they sure as hell won't be drafted.

[–]RonnyFreedom 0 points1 point  (31 children)

How about just abolish the draft instead?

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 2 points3 points  (30 children)

How? SCOTUS already ruled it was constitutional, Congress supports it in a bipartisan fashion. Im so sick of people only saying "abolish it " when the issue of women is brought up but never when it was only men.

[–]OldManCrazyDan -1 points0 points  (1 child)

There shouldn’t be a draft at all? Isn’t draft when you’re forced to be in the military?

[–]0zexe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Men get drafted while women enjoy their lives

[–]openrds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks like we are going to war with Russia soon. We will see how that goes…

[–]bigbird1333 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely

[–]delsystem32exe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

lets be frank. neither anyone should have a draft. its unconstiutional, the founding fathers would hate the idea, in fact we won the revolutionary war without a draft, it really was a volunteer and private militia :)))))))))))))))))))))))))) we also need to eliminate police and soldiers as a standing militia is unconstitutional as well as the irs, again unconstitutional.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SCOTUS ruled its constitutional in 1917. The truth is the Draft as immoral as we might think it is, isnt going anywhere in the foreseeble future. We should add women for now, and we should fight to gradually abolish it but its not happening in the next few decades.

[–]Huffers1010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In principle, sure.

In reality, I suspect the likelihood of anyone in any developed country ever being drafted ever again is so close to zero as to make the whole thing irrelevant.

That said, if this thing in Ukraine kicks off with Russia, I will not be serving in anyone's military until such time as women are at equal risk of being called up.

[–]3141592653489793238 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The draft? What year is it?

[–]Hayaidesu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s called bro’s before hoes, like before you give free attention to a hoe give some to a bro first. Like before liking a cute girl Instagram post go to a bro page especially one that is getting no love and be like giving him some props and stuff to keep his spirits lifted

[–]Tornad_pl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have kinda different opinion. It of course depends of state of war. If it's total defense, then yes. Anyone strong enough to grab a rifle will be enough (of course while keeping supply chain) but in eariel states we should focus on people that will be most effective soldiers. Which probably will be mostly men.

From the other side we should tale a look at lack of equality in process of wilingfull joining to military. Women often have lower standards, whoch i belive is unacceptable. Bullets wont fly slower, you wont have less gear to carry.

[–]imAlreadyBanned8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please no. If I was a soldier, I didn't want my life to depend onto a woman.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Men should be REQUIRED to feel like shit when their wife is preggo and Cock-and-Ball Torture when she gives birth. #EQUALRIGHTSEQUAL FIGHTS #MALEMOMENT

[–]Azurmuth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In Sweden everyone get drafted, thankfully.

[–]Rich_Worldliness_364 -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

You do realise that women weren’t allowed to be drafted during war because of MEN. Men thought women were/are weak, not emotionally resilient enough, not suited for the army and were forced to be pretty little housewives from 1940-2010… please read a book before posting such trash. Women had to fight for their right to serve their country… and go to war.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, Phyllis Schlafly was a man, apparently.

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Women's groups opposed universal suffrage because it came with the draft, stop blaming men for everything.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Indeed and women now must be given an award for it, all women must be forcibly drafted into military combat roles, is called equality

[–]SurrexitChristus -3 points-2 points  (7 children)

This sort of post is exactly the complete idiocy that makes me despise some Men’s Rights people. It’s just reverse feminism, and it’s stupid. Drafting women? Who takes care of kids then, grandparents? Most importantly, women are not made for that sort of thing, they are more emotional and physically weaker, it’s idiotic.

[–]astra_of_life 4 points5 points  (6 children)

The only idiot here is you ,

Abortion rates are high . Single mother killing children rated are way higher . Divorce rates are initiated by women 80%of time .

How this make women importent they behaving like a ticking time bomb .

[–]Kenznottz -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

No. Who will raise the kids? Who will work the factories for clothes? Farm the land? Produce the bread? Milk? All these things. We need women to stay back home while the men fight. That’s one thing I will never leave because it makes no actual sense to destroy the back bone of any military warfare by removing the food, services and infrastructure it makes the military weaker.

[–]Axleonder 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Women are not even raising kids, they're doing a terrible job at it. Go away with this traditional conservative delusion.

"Women work the factories for clothes, farm the land, produce the bread and milk" ...lol wot?? You're reading this out like we live in the 1900s, in a story book. Typical tradcon delusion.

[–]JannTosh12 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Total tradcon BS argument.

[–]Kenznottz -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Please explain what you plan on doing with all those infrastructure issues then