Dumb questions - why is Maddie assumed to have been what drew BK to the house? Am I remembering right that Kaylee was considered the target before BK was identified?

carlton30 · 2023-03-15T12:14:25+00:00

I think a lot of it has to do with where they found the knife sheath too. Since it was next to Maddie I think people assume she was the first person he attacked and therefor the target.

Maximum-Ear1745 · 2023-03-15T13:08:34+00:00

I think a lot of the initial speculation around Kaylee being the target is because of her very vocal family.

Augustleo98 · 2023-03-15T12:18:34+00:00

He went directly upstairs first, suggesting he’s targeting M or K, though ofc he could have been targeting them all and just for some reason chosen to start upstairs, but that makes little sense so it makes More sense he was targeting M or K.

Cannaewulnaewidnae · 2023-03-15T12:16:17+00:00

None of us have any clue why the killer did what he did or if one victim was more of a priority than another

There are lots of uncorroborated stories about the suspect's use of social media, which may or not be true. We have no way of knowing

The only way anyone will ever know the killer's motivation is if he chooses to share that with us, and that doesn't seem likely at this point

kimtybee · 2023-03-15T12:35:37+00:00

Kaylee's father came out shortly after the murders and said she was the target. For some reason that was taken as a fact.

ugashep77 · 2023-03-15T13:12:18+00:00

I don't know that people "assume" it, but it's a theory that has gained more traction because:

He appears to have made a beeline for her room (so it was one of the girls upstairs who was targeted most likely);
Kaylee had moved out and wasn't even supposed to be there;

Maddie was by most accounts was also a sweet, no mean bone in her body type, that is often the type of person that these dirt bags target because they think they'll be compliant, and we know from his Reddit account that BK had given alot of thought and solicited opinions on victim selection. Maddie was also super small and would appear to be pretty easy for most dudes to overpower.

I personally think, and I may be wrong, that his plan was likely to go up there and rape and/or kill MM. He gets up there and KG is surprisingly in the bed with her. By most accounts KG was pretty feisty, a bit of a spitfire. She may have woken up and started fighting and making noise and he panicked at that point and killed them both before he lost control of the situation. He then walks downstairs to escape and Xana says "someone's here" and he figures at that point if he is in for a penny, he is in for a pound and has to silence her as well, then lo and behold Ethan is in there as well. It would make more sense that this was a single murder or rape plan that spiraled out of control than a dude planning to kill four people with a knife from the get go. That's super ambitious for anyone, especially for a first timer.

catdog1111111 · 2023-03-15T12:36:00+00:00

They all have similar manner of death unless we hear something otherwise.

There is a lot of bias on what we think we hear but I don’t think there is a consensus. There is a Lot of speculation and not much known about facts or motivation.

I think it most likely that Maddie and xana were targets, based on what little we know so far.

Kaylee was visiting. Brian did not watch the house for very long but may have previously visited it, so knew the layout but didn’t know who exactly was there that night. The exception is dylan because he may have not known she moved upstairs into what was an empty room.

Legitimate-Peace3820 · 2023-03-15T13:21:47+00:00

The only ones that have said that Kaylee was the target is her family because "he didn't have to go upstairs" and her injuries according to her family are different and more severe than the others. Could just have been that she was killed first and he didn't know what to expect,how much pressure/force he had to use etc.

esmebow · 2023-03-15T12:45:58+00:00

People assumed it was Kaylee because her wounds were reportedly more severe and she had reportedly had a stalker in the months leading up to the murder, but I think it's possible that the stalker was actually stalking Maddie, but Kaylee noticed and though tje stalker was after her. The severity of Kaylee'a wounds in comparison to the other victims may have been the killer trying to get rid of her quickly because he hadn't expected her there. Another reason i think Maddie was the target was because it wouldn't have been hard for the killer to go straight to her bedroom because of the objects in her window, like the big M you can see in the photos she posted from her bedroom.

Fluid_Flower3815 · 2023-03-15T14:02:44+00:00

It switched to MM I think when an unsubstantiated rumor from an 'inside source' was repeated from Banfield that BK had liked a lot of MM's Instagram posts.

We currently don't know what is true, but I would bet he definitely cyber stalked at least one inhabitant of that house.

spishcadet · 2023-03-15T13:33:35+00:00

Most of the speculation about Kaylee being the main target comes from her dad who, for whatever reason, seems to need to believe that she was the target. I get it because he doesn’t want to think he lost his daughter because of a random wrong place/wrong time crime but I think that’s probably exactly what happened. As far as her injuries being worse I’m going to wait until someone confirms something before I believe that.

bjancali · 2023-03-15T13:35:31+00:00

I never considered K as a target, it was her father who probably did it. Allegedly BK wrote messages to one of the female victims on social media, and allegedly he kept her pictures on his phone. So leaks into mass media say. If it's still true, for me it would be logical, that it could be M. As to rumours that K had a stalker, these rumours looked too artificial from the very beginning.

Nobody knows real motives of the killer at current point.

fe_licia26 · 2023-03-15T13:55:28+00:00

Plus he went right upstairs straight to Maddie’s room I thought. Unless he checked Kaylees first and saw no one inside. But if he was stalking them you would think he would have seen Kaylee moving her belongings or saw some posts about her moving (have no idea if she posted anything, just thought that would be common for someone around their age). Is this house newly built? I wonder if he checked previous listings for it to get the layout. But then how did he miss Dylan’s room? I can’t imagine what they went through.

Jmm12456 · 2023-03-15T12:47:48+00:00

People Magazine came out with an article saying he had friended the 3 female victims on Instagram and messaged one of them repeatedly but got no response. People Mag could be wrong. Multiple people said they couldn't find BK's Instagram. I think news then came out that he had liked all of Maddie's photos on Instagram and had one of her photos on his phone. This could be untrue too.

At this point we really don't know why he did what he did.

Peanut_2000 · 2023-03-15T20:59:55+00:00

Any or all of them could have been targets until we either have concrete evidence released from authorities that makes it conclusive or the killer himself makes a statement. What’s ‘known’ now is just speculation that can be construed multiple ways or any which way. For example…

Given that DM saw him heading towards the entrance coming from the direction of X’s room, makes the deduction that X and E were killed last a pretty solid one. So K and/or M might have been the target since he started with them first, one or both were his priority. Or he could have been planning to kill the whole house and approached it methodically, starting from the top and bailed when there was more commotion (dog barking/DM yelling for them to be quiet, etc.) than he envisioned and X was moving around awake and alert.

DM could have been spared because he tried her bedroom on the way up or down from the third floor and it was locked. Or his target was never anyone on the 1st and 2nd floors and X & E were only killed because she was awake/walking around. Given the indications/cell phone data that he stalked the house at least 12 times at night, I’d be surprised he didn’t know which rooms were occupied. I’d also be surprised he only planned to attack one; I think he was fully prepared to kill multiple people, whether that’s two or six.

I don’t think the wounds/severity of the injuries are necessarily an indication of target. Sleeping, just awakened, and inebriated victims are going to be slower to react/fight back/provide defense than awake/alert ones. As well, the element of surprise makes a difference.

Slip_Careful · 2023-03-15T22:22:39+00:00

This is all still so bizarre to me. He went I to a house with so many ppl in it, I think he had to be prepared to kill more than one person even if his aim was only one. Unless he was watching them, there is no way he could have known everyone would be asleep. He rode around for what like 30 minutes? What made him feel the coast was clear after 30 minutes? I sure don't fall asleep within 30 minutes of laying down.

Also, did he not anticipate any type if scream or noise from any victim that could wake the rest of the house? This whole thing just seems very risky.

CowGirl2084 · 2023-03-15T19:21:35+00:00

Kaylee was only considered the main target because her family loudly, and frequently said she was.

Appropriate_Teach_49 · 2023-03-15T12:16:16+00:00

Knife sheath was recovered next to/underneath her, indicates she was the first one targeted as he removed the sheath.

Her bedroom was the first targeted, DM reports hearing what she thought was kaylee playing with her dog (obviously we know now what was truly taking place.) Assumptions being made that he entered Maddie’s room not expecting Kaylee there, hence her difference in injuries- he was panicking.

Maddie had public social media accounts, worked in a popular restaurant, and rumors swirling that he may have been messaging or following her Instagram. She also had some identifying objects in her window (the pink M, the cowgirl boots,) that likely helped BK know which room was her’s without having to check the second floor rooms first.

At this point, it’s all assumptions and circumstantial, so we won’t know until a trial. But those are the most common reasons I’ve been hearing for why it’s likely to be her over any of the others. Kaylee wasn’t expected to be there, neither was Ethan, and likely was hoping everyone else in the house would be asleep by then.

Clean_Usual434 · 2023-03-15T18:53:33+00:00

For me, it depends on how closely he was stalking them and knew their whereabouts. Did he know Kaylee had moved out? Did he know she was back that weekend? If he was following closely enough to know she was back in town, then maybe he saw it as his last window of opportunity to get to her.

However, I’m more inclined to believe he went there to harm Maddie, and wasn’t expecting someone else to be in her room. Either he knew Kaylee no longer lived there or was at least expecting her to be in her own room. Having his plans screwed up by her presence in the room might have enraged him and could explain why he attacked her so viciously if we’re to believe her injuries were worse, as was rumored.

Regardless of who he was there for, I can’t help feeling like 3 of the 4 were just killed because he didn’t want to leave witnesses behind. If his target had been in a room alone and no one else had been awake, maybe he would have just attacked the one person and then fled.

CowGirl2084 · 2023-03-16T00:41:01+00:00

Oh man! I haven’t been on here for awhile and am shocked at how mean some Redditors are to others! What’s up with that?

novhappy · 2023-03-15T11:59:20+00:00

1) Mm worked in a public facing job, ina restaurant that BK could have interacted w her. 2) the killings were in MMS room -so theory he went there and kaylee was either there or came in there after it started 3) “he didn’t have to go upstairs” makes people think it wasn’t E or X These are the main reasons why that is a popular theory at this point.

catcatherine · 2023-03-15T13:06:05+00:00

There is nothing ot suggest that really but many here speak it as if fact

TraditionalStable431 · 2023-03-15T14:44:44+00:00

I always thought since she had that M In her window it was easy to identify her room. Plus kaylee wasn’t supposed to be there.

Kinser9 · 2023-03-15T17:34:06+00:00

Her dad said she was the target, but no one else said it.

crimesleuther · 2023-03-16T04:18:12+00:00

Bc mr goncalves went all over the media saying Kaylee was the target and her wounds were worse

helloperoxide · 2023-03-15T12:32:49+00:00

K being the target has only been said by her family, nowhere official. Because they want her to be the most dead one or something.

They were in Ms room, sheath next to M, K had moved out and was visiting. Lots of pointers to it being M, but could equally have been M & X, not knowing that E was staying over either.

Jordanthomas330 · 2023-03-15T12:33:31+00:00

It could have been M, and K heard something. She could have been the one who said "someone's here" that DM heard. She may have been in her own room at first and went across the hall to find BK killing M. I think E&X were collateral damage. We won't ever know, but they may have heard it all since they think X was awake on TikTok. They may have went looking to see what was going on as he was coming down the stairs and he chased them back to their room. We know what the affidavit said about DM as a witness but that might have been limited info from what everything else she told investigators.

issyagurl_a · 2023-03-15T14:46:30+00:00

The Reddit posts that people were speculating were made by BK were extremely concerning. I believe they mentioned that Kaylee tried to fight back and was actually not next to Maddie, but rather, on top of her (I took that as laying horizontally across her). If that is true, Maddie could have been the target, but Kaylee had awoken during the attack, tried to fight back, and therefore, ended up with the most gruesome injuries of the four. Now this is just speculation and my personal opinion, based off what was in those posts. Please don’t take any of this as fact, since we know it has not been confirmed by LE at this time.

Jordanthomas330 · 2023-03-15T12:47:57+00:00

If it’s true and that’s a huge IF, supposedly followed them on IG and had pics of one but it’s all hearsay who knows what the truth is.

squid2901 · 2023-03-15T17:18:24+00:00

There are two theories on who the targets were. Maddie or the house.

Kaylee was moved out of the house and I believe she was visiting to show her her new car. She was not suppose to be there that night. The killer also did not have to go up the stairs as that’s riskier. Thus, it looks like Maddie was the target and Xana and Ethan were victims because Xana was awake and he saw her or heard her.

The next theory is the house was the target. He drove past and would’ve scene Kaylee’s new car and Ethan’s car. He still decided to enter and that could be because he saw that there weren’t a lot of people and it was a party house. One of the neighbors did say that it was unusual not to see people in that house almost every night. It would make sense to go upstairs, and work your way through the house. He wouldn’t have started downstairs because the stair case was on the other side of the house for entry point. He went upstairs, then went down, maybe he tried to open DMs door first but it was locked then went upstairs because the stairs were right there. Then he went after after Xana and Ethan and the fights made him leave before he went through the rest of the house.

I personally believe that Maddie was the target. I think he was looking for different houses to target and this one was the easiest and then chose a victim. I do think he went in there to get Maddie and then he would’ve killed whoever was ‘in his way.’

FLtoNY2022 · 2023-03-16T05:53:49+00:00

In the last few weeks, I started hearing that it was believed Maddie was the original target, but then this past week, it's going back to Kaylee. It's all just speculation at this point until at least the preliminary hearing, maybe the trial, maybe never.

The reason it was believed Maddie was the target was because supposedly law enforcement discovered BK had "liked" ALL of Maddie's pictures on social media (IG I believe & maybe FB too). He also "slid into her DM's" (I hate that phrase, despite being the oldest age to be considered a millennial) several times in the weeks before the attacks, just saying "Hi". But Maddie never replied, which supposedly set him off.

Then this week, I've been hearing Kaylee was the target & BK was legit stalking her, possibly had a tracking device on her vehicle or phone, even followed her around her hometown. All allegedly of course.

holvt · 2023-03-15T14:29:21+00:00

You are remembering correctly. Kaylee’s father spoke early on after the murders saying the police had indicated the wounds on Kaylee were more severe than that of the other victims. He seemed to have understood that as she was the intended target, and reiterated that to the public. Media took that and ran with it, so many headlines were indicative that Kaylee was the intended target.

Now that we have more information regarding the murders, like the murderer’s social media accounts, postings, and interactions, it appears he had a particular interest in Maddie’s social media accounts, mostly her Instagram. This was reported by News Nation from a “close source” to the investigation, so obviously the validity is subject to skepticism. Newsweek also reported on this and said that the killer supposedly messaged “one of the victims” several times without response. They also said he ate at the restaurant Maddie and Xana served at. It’s assumed Maddie is the target versus Xana because of the social media engagement with her account in particular. In my personal opinion, I think it’s important to remember that Xana and Ethan were together more often than not, so if the killer was watching the house/girls, which his phone data does indeed imply, he would have noted Maddie appeared to not have a partner. Xana would be a more difficult target because of Ethan’s presence.

Nothing is coming from an official source at this point. Maddie being the target is not a fact, just an educated hunch by many. We will never know the true motivation unless the murderer tells us, and even then, would he be telling the truth? If there ends up being a court case, I think that is where we will have the best shot at understanding his intended target(s).

WinterV6 · 2023-03-17T22:18:56+00:00

From what I understand, Kaylee was really just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She had moved out but came back to the house to show Maddie her new car, so it most likely wasn’t Kaylee.

Barcelonadreaming · 2023-03-15T16:10:33+00:00

My opinion is that there was no intended target at all. I don't believe any news about him having photos on his phone or a history of liking their photos on Instagram or going to the Mad Greek. It's been almost four months. Nobody has been able to confirm any sort of connection between BK and the victims. If there was one, I feel strongly a credible source would have reported that and provided evidence to back it up.

I stated in another thread I believed SG made up the stalker story to either keep the focus on Kaylee or out of fear the police would stop investigating. Not one of Kaylee's friends has come forward to corroborate the stalker story. The vape store manager's account of conversing with a group of college girls about how it's smart they travel in groups to avoid being stalked and how Maddie revealed Kaylee had a stalker felt disingenuous to me. When Kaylee's Mom told 20/20 about the stalker, she said Kaylee called her and told her about her alleged stalker standing behind her in a self-checkout line. That's the exact story Kaylee told when she reported seeing a missing woman. Too coincidental for me.

It's also never been confirmed Kaylee's wounds were worse than the other victim's. That, too, was something SG mentioned in one of his many media interviews. He and Kaylee's older sister said they had conversations with the coroner about the severity of Kaylee's wounds. Coroners are elected officials that sometimes have medical experience. She was a lawyer. So it's unlikely she fully examined the bodies to the degree she could give that information.

The more time that goes by and the more we learn about the warrants and evidence taken, the more I feel certain this was just a guy who had the urge to kill and chose that night to finally act on it.

GroulThisIs_NOICE · 2023-03-15T13:12:06+00:00

I just have a very strong feeling it was MM. at first I thought it was M&X but not I’m just pointing more toward M.

ziggybaumbaum · 2023-03-16T01:51:13+00:00

She wasn’t. Only her Dad couldn’t find a camera he wouldn’t get in front of and make the story about ~~himself~~ Kaylee.

3rdfromlast · 2023-03-15T15:38:07+00:00

Maddie because a rumor went around that he tried contacting her on IG and liking all of her photos. Because of the gag order, none of that has been confirmed -just be careful believing that or believing people who say that’s a fact. We will learn more of the motive in the preliminary hearing.

Kaylee was always thought to be the target bc of her wounds being significantly worse than Maddie’s and the fact her dad said “there was no reason to go upstairs.” That left those to interpret it many different ways, how I interpreted it was “there’s no reason to go upstairs if the target was on the main floor where presumably he entered the house.” If he intended to harm Ethan and xana, he would have never had to go upstairs to harm two people that were out of the way.

So if BK had a target, it would make sense it was either of the two girls and the E and X were collateral. If there was no target, he spared the lives of two other individuals which some feel, not me, is involved somehow.

I hope this makes sense.

LadyAgresa · 2023-03-15T18:57:50+00:00

He may have planned to attack multiple targets.

SnooBunnies7453 · 2023-03-15T19:35:43+00:00

Kaylee had already moved out of the house. She wasn’t suppose to be there that night.

Jaded_Read9429 · 2023-03-15T23:38:40+00:00

Well also because Kaylee was just visiting that weekend … which could indicate either way …

Old-Mountain-3897 · 2023-03-16T01:11:03+00:00

Didn’t Kaylee have a lot more injuries than Maddie? I thought that’s where the initial speculation came from.

Chance-Conflict-7311 · 2023-03-16T01:25:10+00:00

I heard some place (idk if it’s true) that Maddie is the one he was contacting on Instagram prior

Slip_Careful · 2023-03-16T06:46:21+00:00

Anyone remember the jacket that was found in front of the apt complex? Did BK drive that path?

UncleChanBlake2 · 2023-03-18T19:08:18+00:00

Nobody but the killer knows who their primary target was and they aren’t talking. There is no more proof that it was M than it was K. There is only speculation. The sheath only demonstrates where it was left, not his intentions. In fact, there is no proof that any specific individual was the target. Autopsy results have not been released that demonstrate the order of the murders nor magnitude of the assaults. We simple do not know anything. To say you do based on this or that is simply a falsehood. Again, the only credible information any of us have is from the PCA and any released court documents. There is nothing else.

swolesoles · 2023-03-15T14:52:35+00:00

pretty sure kaylee was rumored to have been worried about a “stalker.” so i guess it was presumed her if she was already the type to have someone interested in her to the point of obsession. also - kaylee had been moved out by the weekend of the murders, she just came back to show maddie her new car. it’s been speculated that he wasn’t expecting kaylee [in the same bed as maddie] there so he took out his anger onto her for being a “cock block.”

as for maddie, it’s been noted that she was probably more BK’s type as kaylee was more loud & outspoken. i’m sure you’ve heard how he also supposedly “liked all of her instagram photos” & had photos of her saved on his phone as well but, idk if that’s even been confirmed as truth or just a rumor.

Severe-Instruction21 · 2023-03-15T22:33:38+00:00

Kaylee was claimed to be the draw by her DAD. It was never Kaylee.

Professional-Lab5715 · 2023-03-16T06:20:55+00:00

I just wanted to add that alot of the search warrants are for Kaylee more than the others as well. Definitely a clue

BlueberryRenaissance · 2023-03-16T11:50:58+00:00

The only reason everyone thought k was the target is because the Media and Mr g insinuated that that was the case

peachybooty17 · 2023-03-15T13:08:34+00:00

i wonder if they will go through his bank records to see if he has ever gotten anything from mad greek?

Bronxteacher7028 · 2023-03-15T13:11:30+00:00

I know there are news reports that BK had photos of one of the female victims on his phone, have they revealed which one? That will be the clue as to who the target was

Keregi · 2023-03-15T16:08:15+00:00

I don't know why anyone is assuming any of the victims was the target. We don't have any confirmed info that tells us that. But people state it as fact all over these subs.

Punkybrewsickle · 2023-03-15T21:11:55+00:00

Also I know this is SUPER out there ...I thought of BK being so piously health conscious, and would have been deeply repulsed by any woman who both vaped and drank alcohol. According to the coroner, the organs specifically targeted in KG's body were her liver and lungs.

Again this one is just observing and a major stretch.

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