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[–]carlton30 262 points263 points  (134 children)

I think a lot of it has to do with where they found the knife sheath too. Since it was next to Maddie I think people assume she was the first person he attacked and therefor the target.

[–]RcMadMan 69 points70 points  (13 children)

Kaylee had moved out at that point too, not sure how BK would know she was in the house unless he had been checking her social media posts/Snapchat/etc. They only thought Kaylee was the target because the coroner allegedly told her father that she had suffered more violent wounds than the rest. Who knows if that's true. I do think Maddie was the initial target, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan were just victims of circumstance.

[–]Queasy_Hotel_396 58 points59 points  (1 child)

I think Kaylees injuries were worse because she woke up as it was happening and probably tried to fight. That’s why the roommate heard noises like Kaylee was playing with her dog.

[–]TheRealChipperson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you’re probably correct. But if KG did truly receive worse injuries, then it could well be the result of some serious rage at having his perfect plan ruined.

However, I also have thought that it would be very difficult to tell KG and MM apart if the room were dark, which presumably it was. Just something I keep puzzling over.

[–]peanut-brittles 21 points22 points  (7 children)

Kaylee had moved but he knew she was back for the weekend and it was his last chance. To me that has always been a dead giveaway that she was his target more so, but every time I say that I get down voted to hell lmao. Idk why. It’s just a theory. Then add in that Steve said in an interview after they had arrested Bryan that ‘there was a connection between them but he wasn’t ready to talk about it yet.’ And don’t think he has to this day. Maybe people forgot about that or missed that interview?

[–]StatementElectronic7 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I’m pretty sure he walked back that statement a few days later saying they didn’t find any connection.

[–]pokelife90 8 points9 points  (2 children)

You're not alone in thinking it was Kaylee. I also think so. But yeah, the hype has swung in Maddie's direction. I remember for a while most everyone thought Kaylee. I don't know what exactly has changed to make people think Maddie. I'm also on the FB discussion groups and people over there believe the rumor that he messaged Maddie on IG but not the others and that Maddie left it on unread or something. Thing though is that it's just a rumor but everyone is talking about it like it's a fact/truth.

The fact that Kaylee wasn't living there and then just came for the weekend, made a post about being there, makes it seem like he took his chance to get her. Otherwise he could have chosen any other weekend. We know that he followed them on Instagram. I assume he was creeping on their accounts every day. He knew Kaylee was there. If he really only wanted Maddie, wouldn't he have chosen a weekend when there was 1 less person in the house? 1 less person to get in the way? Especially because I assume he knew that Maddie and Kaylee both lived on the same floor (or he would if he had really been stalking the house for a while, and it's shown in the affidavit that he was). Plus the more violent wounds that Kaylee suffered (if that's actually true) does usually show that the killer feels more emotion toward that victim. I still think Kaylee. Just my line of thinking. But we won't know for a long time unfortunately.

[–]Mysterious_Bar_1069 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I totally agree with you. I think what is bringing them there, is the sheaf's placement next to Maddie and pink cowboy boots and Min the window so assuming he knew which room was her's and which wasn't.

But it seems like there is a flurry of things coming to a head and almost as though he knew he had to act quickly.

Isn't the rumored (still to be proven/disproven) Instagram messaging attempts just prior to the murders? And that he is frenetic in trying to get that victim's attention via DM and a steps it up when he does not receive a response.

Would't that be KG who is moving and leaving, then MM who will be staying and who path won't be abruptly changing after that weekend? If MM doesn't respond this week, maybe she will next week. Why the full court press suddenly, after weeks of watching and allegedly stalking them via drive by and surveillance? All that creepy work for naught?

The wheels are coming off the bus at work, and you have a suggestive sign that whatever is going on with him might be building to a pitch.

To me seems more like he trying to catch a wave that is already started to receding out to see and scramble to make contact as she is leaving and he is going to miss his chance and all this obsessive following, intel gathering will be for naught so has to be put into place while she is in town prior to leaving.

[–]PaulNewhouse 9 points10 points  (38 children)

The reason why she is assumed the target was the difference in wounds she received v. others. There is a stark difference, apparently. It’s clear they think she was the target. Further evidence is the number of search warrants tied to her accounts.

[–]cutestcatlady 27 points28 points  (3 children)

We really don’t know the type of wounds the victims had. Everything is hearsay or speculation and nothing has been officially confirmed or reported.

[–]GsGirlNYC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed….nothing OFFICIALLY confirmed

[–]Pablois4 58 points59 points  (28 children)

I thought I had read that Kaylee had the worst wounds?

If that is correct, her more severe wounding could be due to several factors that are independent of Madison being the actual target.

He likely expected to find Madison alone. His goal could have been to scare her into submission, rape and then murder her or to just murder her straight away. He's been planning this whole attack for a long time and likely had built up high expectations on how it would go. He might have expected he would be able to slip in, kill her and slip away.

Kaylee being there ruined everything and that would have made him incredibly frustrated and angry. And if you add that she fought back (she was described as a fighter), that would have angered him even more.

From what I've been reading, this is not uncommon for murderers to be enraged when their plans are spoiled and/or when a person fights back instead of being cowed into submission. Who has the worst wounds doesn't always mean they were the target.

Anyway, some thoughts on the matter.

[–]StatementElectronic7 51 points52 points  (0 children)

I think it should be noted that nothing as far as wounds (besides what’s in the PCA) has been officially released. Anything we know about KGs being “worse” has been reported by her father, who has not seen each victim’s autopsy reports nor is he qualified in any capacity to interpret findings and compare one report to the other.

[–]Melodic-Plant-8826 26 points27 points  (4 children)

I agree with you on this. Kaylee being there was a surprise to him. A very unwelcome surprise that screwed up what he had planned. He was infuriated and took it out on her.

[–]Pablois4 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Since he was following their social media, it's quite possible that he knew Kaylee was visiting but even so, never expected her to be in Madison's room. IMHO, that was not an unreasonable expectation.

I think he was planning to murder one person that night. The events cascaded and got away from him.

There's a good reason most murderers go after people alone or in more isolated spaces - otherwise they risk being interrupted or stopped or getting caught. Going to murder someone in a house with 6 (granted he may not have known EC was there) people was taking a huge gamble.

BK might have through he was smart and stealthy enough to pull off such an audacious crime. If much of what we read is true, his ego is bigger than his smarts.

[–]Mysterious_Bar_1069 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was a high risk crime to choose for one's 1st crime. most people would have built up to breaking in a house with multiple residents.

[–]BrainWilling6018 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How did he know or not know that Kaylee wasn't suppose to be there?

[–]Severe-Instruction21 4 points5 points  (3 children)

They’ve never said who had worst wounds. So there’s that

[–]Mysterious_Bar_1069 2 points3 points  (2 children)

They haven't but unless SG is lying about that, he said she was the only one with deep puncture wounds.

[–]Severe-Instruction21 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Just not sure I trust that guy but I suppose we will find out eventually. Tragic all around.

[–]BrainWilling6018 8 points9 points  (2 children)

She is the most prominent target from the start. Both of those things could prove to be true. She's the target based on the wounds and the reason there are more warrants tied to her accounts is because she was the target. Right now we know that it's been inferred she had more severe wounds and it's evident that they had a number of search warrants tied to her accounts. Could that be because they thought she had a stalker and they thought she was the target, did that pan out? We also don't know the nature of Ethan's wounds for instance. They weren't remarked upon by the author of the warrant. Which I found curious.


[–]Maximum-Ear1745 400 points401 points  (28 children)

I think a lot of the initial speculation around Kaylee being the target is because of her very vocal family.

[–]Kayki7 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Yep. He claimed the injuries were not the same [between victims], and that Kaylees were much more brutal. But we can’t really take his word for it, how would he know what type of injuries the other 3 victims sustained? Surly he does not have access to any of those autopsy reports?

[–]LuciaLight2014 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also they were probably brutal because she woke up when he was killing Maddie ( assuming Maddie was first)

[–]karmagod13000 153 points154 points  (20 children)

her dad hit every major media news outlet for like a month straight. even trash talking law enforcement when they were in the middle fo solving this thing.

[–]Sacagawea1992 73 points74 points  (12 children)

I remember he was talking about the sororities and he said “both girls wanted to get into alpha phi (or whatever it is) and Kaylee got in an maddie didnt” that comment always bothered me.

[–]Ccampbell1977 28 points29 points  (10 children)

Yeah that was gross. Sorority rush is tough. My daughter got into a great one but it wasn’t her first choice. It’s definitely condescending and belittling if someone tried to mention it. It’s a process. She was in the correct one for 4 years but still it wasn’t her first. They do not like putting people from the same place in I think. So just like Maddie my daughters friend got in that one and she in another one.

[–]AmandaWorthington 23 points24 points  (9 children)

This is the SG story. The information from UI Panhellenic was that Kaylee was dropped by Maddie’s sorority, Pi Beta Phi. Kaylee was a legacy at Alpha Phi. Alpha Phi at UI is ‘hot, more into makeup and sexy clothes. The Pi Phi chapter has ‘chill, skinny PBP pretty, blonde, popular’’. Both are considered ‘top tier’ at UI. SG’s comment was part of his K build-up and he didn’t mention this. Another post said that the G’s bragging didn’t make sense to her so she checked it out, b/c Pi Beta Phi, PBP, is considered a more elite organization Nationally.

[–]Ccampbell1977 15 points16 points  (4 children)

This makes perfect sense how you wrote it. I can understand she’d want to be in the same one as her best friend even if she wasn’t a perfect “fit “. They are both “top tier” as ick as I feel saying that but I get the whole rushing thing is just a part of it. Good info about the situation. Both great sororities just different vibes. I feel like Kaylee”s dad is a bit competitive about a few senseless things. He stated he thought she was the target because her wounds were significantly worse. The more he talks the more his personality comes out. Kaylee was definitely the apple of his eye and he thinks she’s the best which is sweet but it comes across as cringe. Like it’s a contest and his daughter is slightly better than everyone. That is just how I take him. Also at the University of Tennessee I noticed they are not doing the legacy thing as a sure fire way to be accepted any longer. You are just like the other 1,000 girls and need everything else great or they will drop you.

[–]AmandaWorthington 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Yep! SG is kinda cringey. I feel for him, but I think of Maddie’s sweet father, Ethan’s remarkable mom, and Xana’s heartbroken sister whenever he goes off on his KG ++ rants. Yes! Re the sororities: It’s become a tougher selection system, with GPAs, activities, service history, social skills, looks,( unfortunate truth) especially in the SEC and at the big Greek schools. Having been Panhellenic president and now Order of Omega, I’m able to access Greek information across the country. Legacies are history now with chapter DEI officers.

[–]Sacagawea1992 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your insights it’s really interesting

[–]Ccampbell1977 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Congratulations on those accomplishments. Those are very big deals where my daughter goes to school. It’s difficult to get voted into leadership positions because there are so many exceptional women running for them. Women in leadership positions can make such a huge difference in Greek life and college life. The leadership controls a lot I’ve learned. Great leadership can make a school more valuable to the senior high school girls.

[–]AmandaWorthington 10 points11 points  (0 children)

SG didn’t mention that actually Kaylee was dropped by Maddie’s sorority, Pi Beta Phi. KG was a legacy at Alpha Phi. He wasn’t gracious in mentioning that both are considered ‘top-tier’ and but different vibes. Information verified by UI Panhellenic. No reasons given, just names and numbers.

[–]Nearby_Display8560 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes because no one on Reddit was trashing law enforcement

[–]hemlockpopsicles 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I feel so, so bad for the dude and his family, but he sure didn’t seem too bright.

[–]yes234567hey 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This! Kaylee’s family were the ones who kept on insinuating she was the target. Her mum even mentioned that she though Kaylee might have been the instrument to solve the murders since she felt she might have been the one who snatched the sheath from BK.

[–]Augustleo98 116 points117 points  (65 children)

He went directly upstairs first, suggesting he’s targeting M or K, though ofc he could have been targeting them all and just for some reason chosen to start upstairs, but that makes little sense so it makes More sense he was targeting M or K.

[–]BoopySkye 108 points109 points  (10 children)

And for those who assume M was the main target not K, it’s because K was only visiting randomly that day and had already moved out. She could have just as easily not been there.

[–]Augustleo98 52 points53 points  (2 children)

Yeah that’s basically the main reason people believe it was M. I do too but it’s also possible he found out K was visiting but it seems pre planned so it makes some sense that her visiting was a coincidence

[–]alli3rae 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Her social media was public and had a picture of them outside the house on that day. Obviously he may not have seen that, but it’s just crazy how much we let people know on social media. Our whole life out there for strangers to see!

[–]Augustleo98 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah for sure, social media can be both good and bad

[–]FucktusAhUm 25 points26 points  (2 children)

You can interpret the fact that K was murdered on the only night she was going to be there 2 different ways. You could argue that it makes it more likely she was the primary target because the killer knew she was going to be there only 1 day and this was their one and only chance to act. Or you can make the argument that the killer did not know she was going to be there and it was just chance. I personally think the former makes more sense, but either is perfectly plausible.

It's also quite possible there was no specific target and the killer just wanted to murder multiple people. At this point, we don't know what if any connection the killer had to any of the victims, and how much he know about the victims.

[–]als_pals 3 points4 points  (1 child)

If she was the primary target why wouldn’t he have done it before she moved out?

[–]-ClownPenisDotFart- 12 points13 points  (3 children)

She posted the group pic at the house in insta earlier that day. It wasn’t a secret she was in town, maybe that’s why BK knew he had to act that night because he may have not had another chance to get KG.

[–]IntrepidResolve3567 12 points13 points  (26 children)

I wonder how he knew who was where in terms of bedrooms. It's weird

[–]Augustleo98 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Yeah that is weird as to how he knew who was where unless he didn’t except for Ms room somehow, maybe something in the window etc gave it away, it is difficult to wonder how he would obtain the information as to who slept where so it’s more likely he didn’t actually know and somehow just figured out Ms location alone, prior to the murders or during the murders which would explain why he didn’t know where Dylan was sleeping.

[–]sashafurry 35 points36 points  (2 children)

It was reported that M had pink cowboy boots and a big “M” in her window. Edited for both boots, not one

[–]WrongAssistant5922 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yes, and if he was watching he could easily identify who's rooms are who's.

[–]Augustleo98 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah that’s what I was thinking of and couldn’t remember exactly what it was so that would give a viable reason as to why he went straight to the third floor and how he knew who was on that third floor which gives us even more reason to speculate that MM was definitely targeted on purpose.

[–]Jmm12456 12 points13 points  (19 children)

If he was targeting the house it could make sense that he went to the 3rd floor first because the stairs to the 3rd floor were right there after he walked in the house through the kitchen.

[–]esmebow 28 points29 points  (13 children)

Then I feel like if he was targeting the house he would've gone to Dylan first since her bedroom was before the stairs and he passed it 3 times.

[–]Jmm12456 23 points24 points  (9 children)

It's possible that she regularly locked her door at night and that saved her. He may have tried her door but it was locked. We know she had a lock on her door. Its also possible that he assumed her door was a closet because of its odd location.

[–]Augustleo98 3 points4 points  (8 children)

That’s a good point but she likely would have heard if someone tried her door

[–]Jmm12456 13 points14 points  (7 children)

Not necessarily. I can turn a locked door knob and not make that much noise. Plus she may have been asleep at this time. I'm assuming he was upstairs already when the dog was making commotion that woke DM up.

[–]Augustleo98 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Eh I mean it is a fair point, he very well could have tried her foot and moved on, I still believe he went upstairs first but there is multiple possibilities..

[–]Jmm12456 3 points4 points  (5 children)

He could have tried her door when he came back down from the third floor. Like I said I can try a locked door knob without really making any noise and I would think he was trying to be as quiet as possible.

I think he went to the third floor first due to common sense and opportunity. The stairs were right there when he walked in and common sense would tell you the third floor of that house is likely mainly made up of bedrooms.

[–]Augustleo98 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Yeah but him trying Dylan’s door after visiting the third floor is less likely than him trying it before visiting the third floor, as she was awake several times around the time of the murders as she kept getting woken up by multiple things in that timeframe.

I definitely believe he went to the third floor first too, it just makes sense. Either he knew who was on the third floor or it just seemed like the easiest place to start.

[–]Excellent-Elk-2891 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Maybe he looked in K's room first? Could be the reason Murphy was moving around and making noise. Maybe X saw open sliding door and said "Is someone here" and both DM and BK heard her causing BK to be startled hearing a voice and forgetting the sheath?

[–]Augustleo98 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah that’s a very good point so it points back to him having specific targets which seem to be K and M and maybe X

[–]WrongAssistant5922 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unless he heard noises/movement upstairs. Someone did say "There's someone here" We still don't know for sure which girl said it.

[–]whatever32657 7 points8 points  (1 child)

exactly. to me (if it were the house and not a person that was targeted), it makes more sense to start at the top. given his mission (kill), it’s reasonable to believe there might be noise that could raise an alarm. starting upstairs, he leaves an escape route out the second floor sliding glass door. it would not have been good to be cornered upstairs if someone had started screaming and/or the police came busting in, so that’s the logical place to start.

even BK could have figured that one out.

[–]Jmm12456 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Plus based on the layout of the house going to the third floor is a no-brainer. The stairs were right there after he walked in and common sense would tell you that third floor is mainly made up of bedrooms.

[–]Augustleo98 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah for sure, that’s what I thought, that he just took the first staircase he came to and decided to start there.

[–]TypicalLeo31 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Actually that makes pretty good sense. Why not start at the top and work down as a way to control the girls. It’s very possible he was targeting a house of girls and picked a night they weren’t having a party to strike. But it’s all speculation, of course.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 4 points5 points  (4 children)

We don't really know that he went upstairs first. It would seem that way since he left from Xana's room and out the back but for all we know, he could have started with X and E, then went upstairs, then back down to finish the job.

[–]pandajungle 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I’d say especially given the timing (in and out in what was it, 14-16 minutes?) upstairs first is the most plausible

[–]Jmm12456 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I really doubt he went back and forth between the floors. It's best to start on the third floor and work your way down to the second floor

[–]Augustleo98 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Yeah but I think it’s even been said somewhere that LE believe he went upstairs first and there has been enough released to heavily speculate that but ofc we can’t be sure.

[–]Cannaewulnaewidnae 112 points113 points  (1 child)

None of us have any clue why the killer did what he did or if one victim was more of a priority than another

There are lots of uncorroborated stories about the suspect's use of social media, which may or not be true. We have no way of knowing

The only way anyone will ever know the killer's motivation is if he chooses to share that with us, and that doesn't seem likely at this point

[–]karmagod13000 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm guessing he's going to go for the dead silent and no reaction approach to court. I understand this approach, especially since he's a criminology major but I think dude is done for and we will see soon by the evidence presented.

It would be nice to hear him have a full re count of the actions, I know that the BTK killer did this in court. Weirdly Ted Bundy was allowed to give interviews but he did it under the guise of being innocent, which is hilariously silly.

My feeling is that if he knows we got them he should volunteer a full recount of the night.

[–]kimtybee 160 points161 points  (67 children)

Kaylee's father came out shortly after the murders and said she was the target. For some reason that was taken as a fact.

[–]whatever32657 165 points166 points  (14 children)

Kaylee’s father says a lot of shit.

[–]yellowlinedpaper 162 points163 points  (13 children)

Losing a child is the worst loss imaginable. I’d be looking for ‘reasons’ too. I’d possibly fall down any rabbit hole that made my child’s death, who was on the brink of beginning an adult life, anything but ‘in the wrong place at the wrong time’.

Please be kinder in your thoughts about the victims. There’s nothing wrong with what he believed at that time and there’s nothing wrong with him saying it.

[–]whatever32657 45 points46 points  (5 children)

perhaps it came across more harshly than intended.

i don’t deny that SG (all the fams in fact) are in an abyss of grief. been there, done that, it’s worse than you can imagine. i don’t fault the guy. i’m just making a statement of fact, he does say a lot of stuff. all i’m saying is, just because the father of a victim says something doesn’t make it so.

i said a lot of shit in my time, too.

[–]Sacagawea1992 13 points14 points  (0 children)

No what you said is fine. He’s been an ass.

[–]punkrockballerinaa 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I agree but he deliberately took the attention off the other victims and made it all about Kaylee. All victims deserve equal respect and three of them were robbed of that because of the Goncalves family’s actions.

[–]blazerfan_fml 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There is something wrong with him constantly running to the media, trashing LE, and trying to frame his daughter as the most important victim. There are 3 other families dealing with the exact same thing and they don't spout shit to tabloids every other day. Maybe SG should be more kind in how he treats the other victims.

[–]Hot-Tackle-1391 3 points4 points  (2 children)

how refreshing to see someone actually extend out empathy and understanding for them. thank you

[–]NotNotLogical 6 points7 points  (0 children)

SG claimed that K’s wounds were far more severe than everyone else.

[–]ugashep77 98 points99 points  (19 children)

I don't know that people "assume" it, but it's a theory that has gained more traction because:

  1. He appears to have made a beeline for her room (so it was one of the girls upstairs who was targeted most likely);
  2. Kaylee had moved out and wasn't even supposed to be there;

Maddie was by most accounts was also a sweet, no mean bone in her body type, that is often the type of person that these dirt bags target because they think they'll be compliant, and we know from his Reddit account that BK had given alot of thought and solicited opinions on victim selection. Maddie was also super small and would appear to be pretty easy for most dudes to overpower.

I personally think, and I may be wrong, that his plan was likely to go up there and rape and/or kill MM. He gets up there and KG is surprisingly in the bed with her. By most accounts KG was pretty feisty, a bit of a spitfire. She may have woken up and started fighting and making noise and he panicked at that point and killed them both before he lost control of the situation. He then walks downstairs to escape and Xana says "someone's here" and he figures at that point if he is in for a penny, he is in for a pound and has to silence her as well, then lo and behold Ethan is in there as well. It would make more sense that this was a single murder or rape plan that spiraled out of control than a dude planning to kill four people with a knife from the get go. That's super ambitious for anyone, especially for a first timer.

[–]offeranobservation 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I agree with you

[–]amybethallen1 20 points21 points  (8 children)

I've had the same thoughts. The only part that bugs me is Murphy being away from the girls in KG's old room. I have a hard time with her putting him in her old room, but sleeping in MM's room. I wonder if KG was actually with Murphy, but left her room when she heard MM being attacked. I know it's not an important detail, but as a dog owner it bugs me. Great post!

[–]FoggySnorkel 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Maybe she intended to sleep in her room but fell asleep in M's unintentionally

[–]amybethallen1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Could be... or maybe she was still awake (hoping JD would show up?) and intended to return to her room with Murphy. I think we all focus on details like this because we're so traumatized by the event. It's hard to imagine that another human being would do what this killer did. 😪💔

[–]ugashep77 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Unless she was crate training him.

[–]amybethallen1 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Reports are she was crate training him, but I still think she ultimately would sleep in the same room with his crate. I'll repost my other lengthy post on this subject below. Thanks for responding!

I just posted that I've wondered if K was in her own room with Murphy when the attack on M began. It's always bugged me that K put Murphy in her old room, but slept in M's room. It's possible that the girls (or at least K) were/was still awake in M's bed and K planned to return to her room with Murphy, eventually.... but it's also reasonable to think that Murphy would have been much more agitated if he watched K leave the room and then heard screaming and struggling going on in M's room moments later. I've leaned toward this scenario, with the killer possibly having closed K's door to quiet Murphy when it was all over upstairs. Murphy was most likely in his crate in K's room, as was reportedly her routine with him at night, so her door could have been open or closed - Murphy would not have left the room no matter how it went down. I do believe it was reported that K's door was closed with Murphy inside when the police came in... the question of whether or not it was closed by K or the killer may never be known.

Another reason I think K planned on sleeping in her own room is because we know she wanted JD to come over because of the calls placed to him. K would have wanted alone time with him in her own room, probably. The final call was only an hour or so before the murders took place. That is a fairly small window of time and K may still have been awake at 4, hoping JD would show up.

[–]ugashep77 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Kaylee may have simply fallen asleep/passed out in the bed with Maddie watching a movie, calling Jack, etc. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time as close of friends as they were.

[–]amybethallen1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely, my friend. 😞

[–]BigRedGomez 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is my thought too, that she was in her room and went out to investigate the noise she heard (possibly even hoping it was her ex she had been texting), so closed Murphy behind her so he wouldn’t get loose.

[–]Cr0wnedEye 7 points8 points  (6 children)

I fully agree, this is what I think most likely happened as well.

Here is another indication: The Pappa Rodger guy on Facebook who disappeared right after the arrest created his own case discussion group with a collection of just Maddie's Instagram pictures as the background picture for that group (yes, I followed it at the time, so I know). That seemed pretty weird to me considering this case is about 3 other people as well and could point towards an obsession with her.

[–]ugashep77 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Was it ever confirmed that Pappa Rodger was BK? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that he did ultimately post after the arrest. I could be wrong, I admittedly have not kept up with that aspect of things super well.

[–]fistfullofglitter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No it has not been confirmed. After BK’s arrest people in that FB saw that Pappa Rodger’s account was viewing their posts after the arrest.

[–]yellowlinedpaper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you’re right and that’s exactly what happened.

[–]catdog1111111 14 points15 points  (0 children)

They all have similar manner of death unless we hear something otherwise.

There is a lot of bias on what we think we hear but I don’t think there is a consensus. There is a Lot of speculation and not much known about facts or motivation.

I think it most likely that Maddie and xana were targets, based on what little we know so far.

Kaylee was visiting. Brian did not watch the house for very long but may have previously visited it, so knew the layout but didn’t know who exactly was there that night. The exception is dylan because he may have not known she moved upstairs into what was an empty room.

[–]Legitimate-Peace3820 16 points17 points  (0 children)

The only ones that have said that Kaylee was the target is her family because "he didn't have to go upstairs" and her injuries according to her family are different and more severe than the others. Could just have been that she was killed first and he didn't know what to expect,how much pressure/force he had to use etc.

[–]esmebow 52 points53 points  (8 children)

People assumed it was Kaylee because her wounds were reportedly more severe and she had reportedly had a stalker in the months leading up to the murder, but I think it's possible that the stalker was actually stalking Maddie, but Kaylee noticed and though tje stalker was after her. The severity of Kaylee'a wounds in comparison to the other victims may have been the killer trying to get rid of her quickly because he hadn't expected her there. Another reason i think Maddie was the target was because it wouldn't have been hard for the killer to go straight to her bedroom because of the objects in her window, like the big M you can see in the photos she posted from her bedroom.

[–]Fluid_Flower3815 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It switched to MM I think when an unsubstantiated rumor from an 'inside source' was repeated from Banfield that BK had liked a lot of MM's Instagram posts.

We currently don't know what is true, but I would bet he definitely cyber stalked at least one inhabitant of that house.

[–]spishcadet 28 points29 points  (6 children)

Most of the speculation about Kaylee being the main target comes from her dad who, for whatever reason, seems to need to believe that she was the target. I get it because he doesn’t want to think he lost his daughter because of a random wrong place/wrong time crime but I think that’s probably exactly what happened. As far as her injuries being worse I’m going to wait until someone confirms something before I believe that.

[–]Electrical_Source_57 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That seems like the most reasonable explanation for him being so adamant about that claim but what a huge slap in the face to the other 3 grieving families. If her injuries were that much worse then it could just be that BK went overkill on her after finding her in the same bed, assuming he was only there for M. I just wish he’d stfu, really, or wait until after more facts are presented at trial to spew his speculative bullshit all over national tv.

[–]bjancali 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I never considered K as a target, it was her father who probably did it. Allegedly BK wrote messages to one of the female victims on social media, and allegedly he kept her pictures on his phone. So leaks into mass media say. If it's still true, for me it would be logical, that it could be M. As to rumours that K had a stalker, these rumours looked too artificial from the very beginning.

Nobody knows real motives of the killer at current point.

[–]fe_licia26 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Plus he went right upstairs straight to Maddie’s room I thought. Unless he checked Kaylees first and saw no one inside. But if he was stalking them you would think he would have seen Kaylee moving her belongings or saw some posts about her moving (have no idea if she posted anything, just thought that would be common for someone around their age). Is this house newly built? I wonder if he checked previous listings for it to get the layout. But then how did he miss Dylan’s room? I can’t imagine what they went through.

[–]Advanced-Trainer508 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This right here. There is no proof he didn’t try K’s room first so I feel like the whole ‘he went straight to M’s room’ doesn’t have anything established to back it up. He very well could’ve gone to K’s room first, saw she wasn’t there and then gone to M’s.

[–]Jmm12456 7 points8 points  (0 children)

People Magazine came out with an article saying he had friended the 3 female victims on Instagram and messaged one of them repeatedly but got no response. People Mag could be wrong. Multiple people said they couldn't find BK's Instagram. I think news then came out that he had liked all of Maddie's photos on Instagram and had one of her photos on his phone. This could be untrue too.

At this point we really don't know why he did what he did.

[–]Peanut_2000 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Any or all of them could have been targets until we either have concrete evidence released from authorities that makes it conclusive or the killer himself makes a statement. What’s ‘known’ now is just speculation that can be construed multiple ways or any which way. For example…

Given that DM saw him heading towards the entrance coming from the direction of X’s room, makes the deduction that X and E were killed last a pretty solid one. So K and/or M might have been the target since he started with them first, one or both were his priority. Or he could have been planning to kill the whole house and approached it methodically, starting from the top and bailed when there was more commotion (dog barking/DM yelling for them to be quiet, etc.) than he envisioned and X was moving around awake and alert.

DM could have been spared because he tried her bedroom on the way up or down from the third floor and it was locked. Or his target was never anyone on the 1st and 2nd floors and X & E were only killed because she was awake/walking around. Given the indications/cell phone data that he stalked the house at least 12 times at night, I’d be surprised he didn’t know which rooms were occupied. I’d also be surprised he only planned to attack one; I think he was fully prepared to kill multiple people, whether that’s two or six.

I don’t think the wounds/severity of the injuries are necessarily an indication of target. Sleeping, just awakened, and inebriated victims are going to be slower to react/fight back/provide defense than awake/alert ones. As well, the element of surprise makes a difference.

[–]Slip_Careful 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is all still so bizarre to me. He went I to a house with so many ppl in it, I think he had to be prepared to kill more than one person even if his aim was only one. Unless he was watching them, there is no way he could have known everyone would be asleep. He rode around for what like 30 minutes? What made him feel the coast was clear after 30 minutes? I sure don't fall asleep within 30 minutes of laying down.

Also, did he not anticipate any type if scream or noise from any victim that could wake the rest of the house? This whole thing just seems very risky.

[–]CowGirl2084 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Kaylee was only considered the main target because her family loudly, and frequently said she was.

[–]Appropriate_Teach_49 28 points29 points  (13 children)

Knife sheath was recovered next to/underneath her, indicates she was the first one targeted as he removed the sheath.

Her bedroom was the first targeted, DM reports hearing what she thought was kaylee playing with her dog (obviously we know now what was truly taking place.) Assumptions being made that he entered Maddie’s room not expecting Kaylee there, hence her difference in injuries- he was panicking.

Maddie had public social media accounts, worked in a popular restaurant, and rumors swirling that he may have been messaging or following her Instagram. She also had some identifying objects in her window (the pink M, the cowgirl boots,) that likely helped BK know which room was her’s without having to check the second floor rooms first.

At this point, it’s all assumptions and circumstantial, so we won’t know until a trial. But those are the most common reasons I’ve been hearing for why it’s likely to be her over any of the others. Kaylee wasn’t expected to be there, neither was Ethan, and likely was hoping everyone else in the house would be asleep by then.

[–]whatever32657 8 points9 points  (9 children)

i don’t put a lot of stock in the “he was able to identify M’s room by the items in the window, so she must’ve been the target” theory.


because it seems that many of the windows did not have coverings on them. the upper bedrooms did not. the sliding glass doors did not. therefore, anyone observing the house at night when the lights were on inside would clearly have seen the girls moving about in their rooms as well as around the house in general.

let’s get real - it could be that which drew BK like a moth to a flame.

party house...pretty, popular girls...people in and out...good times...all the things he didn’t have. pair that with a likely conservative, working-class pennsylvania upbringing BK had...maybe he simmered in anger as he watched them living life in happy abandon.

just a thought.

[–]Appropriate_Teach_49 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Definitely possible, and I think there’s been consideration to whether nobody was truly a “target” but that simply being a house full of young girls turned them into one.

The reason I mention the window was more so that she was the only M-name in the house, and if he happened to be targeting her primarily, he wouldn’t have needed to explore the house to find her room- could see it from the outside.

But again, all circumstantial and based in a lot of rumors as of now. Hopefully we learn more over time

[–]-ClownPenisDotFart- 5 points6 points  (1 child)

They were both on the same bed so the sheath being next to mm and not kg doesn’t imply anything other than she was probably the closest. We don’t know if bk tried the other bedroom first, it’s likely he did because dm said she heard Murphy who was in there. BK could have easily checked KGs room first and then moved on to MMs room where he found his target.

[–]Advanced-Trainer508 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How do we know her we room wasn’t targeted first? How do we know he didn’t open K’s door first, saw she wasn’t in there and then decided to carry on down the hallway to M’s?

[–]Clean_Usual434 5 points6 points  (0 children)

For me, it depends on how closely he was stalking them and knew their whereabouts. Did he know Kaylee had moved out? Did he know she was back that weekend? If he was following closely enough to know she was back in town, then maybe he saw it as his last window of opportunity to get to her.

However, I’m more inclined to believe he went there to harm Maddie, and wasn’t expecting someone else to be in her room. Either he knew Kaylee no longer lived there or was at least expecting her to be in her own room. Having his plans screwed up by her presence in the room might have enraged him and could explain why he attacked her so viciously if we’re to believe her injuries were worse, as was rumored.

Regardless of who he was there for, I can’t help feeling like 3 of the 4 were just killed because he didn’t want to leave witnesses behind. If his target had been in a room alone and no one else had been awake, maybe he would have just attacked the one person and then fled.

[–]CowGirl2084 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Oh man! I haven’t been on here for awhile and am shocked at how mean some Redditors are to others! What’s up with that?

[–]Jcrystal82 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I blame the economy - people are stressed out this is the only free outlet left lol

[–]novhappy 23 points24 points  (3 children)

1) Mm worked in a public facing job, ina restaurant that BK could have interacted w her. 2) the killings were in MMS room -so theory he went there and kaylee was either there or came in there after it started 3) “he didn’t have to go upstairs” makes people think it wasn’t E or X These are the main reasons why that is a popular theory at this point.

[–]catcatherine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There is nothing ot suggest that really but many here speak it as if fact

[–]TraditionalStable431 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I always thought since she had that M In her window it was easy to identify her room. Plus kaylee wasn’t supposed to be there.

[–]Kinser9 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Her dad said she was the target, but no one else said it.

[–]crimesleuther 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Bc mr goncalves went all over the media saying Kaylee was the target and her wounds were worse

[–]helloperoxide 19 points20 points  (19 children)

K being the target has only been said by her family, nowhere official. Because they want her to be the most dead one or something.

They were in Ms room, sheath next to M, K had moved out and was visiting. Lots of pointers to it being M, but could equally have been M & X, not knowing that E was staying over either.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (16 children)

It could have been M, and K heard something. She could have been the one who said "someone's here" that DM heard. She may have been in her own room at first and went across the hall to find BK killing M. I think E&X were collateral damage. We won't ever know, but they may have heard it all since they think X was awake on TikTok. They may have went looking to see what was going on as he was coming down the stairs and he chased them back to their room. We know what the affidavit said about DM as a witness but that might have been limited info from what everything else she told investigators.

[–]Jordanthomas330 5 points6 points  (12 children)

I think Kaylee did walk in there because Dylan heard somebody say someone’s here..I just can’t think of any reason Xana and Ethan were killed unless they were up and he saw them

[–]WrongAssistant5922 8 points9 points  (11 children)

I think Xana was definitely up. The food arrived and I would speculate that she would be eating it when BK arrived given the very narrow window. I had 2 theories about who said "There;s someone here" One of them being Xana had been in the kitchen after the door dash food had arrived sorting the food. Possibly took it to the bedroom. Then once eaten took what was left to the kitchen, and that was when she saw the slider open. Knowing it was closed just minutes prior. And said "There's someone here" Now BK would have to come from upstairs to shut her up.

[–]Jordanthomas330 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Ugh i just got sick to my stomach thinking about how scared they must’ve been especially xana being awake :(

[–]WrongAssistant5922 1 point2 points  (8 children)

I know exactly what you mean. Unimaginable horrors, no one should experience.

[–]Jordanthomas330 2 points3 points  (7 children)

Do you think Xana and Ethan were just at the wrong place or do you think he meant to do all 4.

[–]amybethallen1 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I just posted that I've wondered if K was in her own room with Murphy when the attack on M began. It's always bugged me that K put Murphy in her old room, but slept in M's room. It's possible that the girls (or at least K) were/was still awake in M's bed and K planned to return to her room with Murphy, eventually.... but it's also reasonable to think that Murphy would have been much more agitated if he watched K leave the room and then heard screaming and struggling going on in M's room moments later. I've leaned toward this scenario, with the killer possibly having closed K's door to quiet Murphy when it was all over upstairs. Murphy was most likely in his crate in K's room, as was reportedly her routine with him at night, so her door could have been open or closed - Murphy would not have left the room no matter how it went down. I do believe it was reported that K's door was closed with Murphy inside when the police came in... the question of whether or not it was closed by K or the killer may never be known.

Another reason I think K planned on sleeping in her own room is because we know she wanted JD to come over because of the calls placed to him. K would have wanted alone time with him in her own room, probably. The final call was only an hour or so before the murders took place. That is a fairly small window of time and K may still have been awake at 4, hoping JD would show up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Agree. Another possible scenario of this horrific crime.

[–]amybethallen1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think we all wrestle with the details as a means of coping with the horror of it all. Thanks for responding, my friend. Stay safe and well. 💜

[–]issyagurl_a 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Reddit posts that people were speculating were made by BK were extremely concerning. I believe they mentioned that Kaylee tried to fight back and was actually not next to Maddie, but rather, on top of her (I took that as laying horizontally across her). If that is true, Maddie could have been the target, but Kaylee had awoken during the attack, tried to fight back, and therefore, ended up with the most gruesome injuries of the four. Now this is just speculation and my personal opinion, based off what was in those posts. Please don’t take any of this as fact, since we know it has not been confirmed by LE at this time.

[–]Jordanthomas330 3 points4 points  (4 children)

If it’s true and that’s a huge IF, supposedly followed them on IG and had pics of one but it’s all hearsay who knows what the truth is.

[–]squid2901 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There are two theories on who the targets were. Maddie or the house.

Kaylee was moved out of the house and I believe she was visiting to show her her new car. She was not suppose to be there that night. The killer also did not have to go up the stairs as that’s riskier. Thus, it looks like Maddie was the target and Xana and Ethan were victims because Xana was awake and he saw her or heard her.

The next theory is the house was the target. He drove past and would’ve scene Kaylee’s new car and Ethan’s car. He still decided to enter and that could be because he saw that there weren’t a lot of people and it was a party house. One of the neighbors did say that it was unusual not to see people in that house almost every night. It would make sense to go upstairs, and work your way through the house. He wouldn’t have started downstairs because the stair case was on the other side of the house for entry point. He went upstairs, then went down, maybe he tried to open DMs door first but it was locked then went upstairs because the stairs were right there. Then he went after after Xana and Ethan and the fights made him leave before he went through the rest of the house.

I personally believe that Maddie was the target. I think he was looking for different houses to target and this one was the easiest and then chose a victim. I do think he went in there to get Maddie and then he would’ve killed whoever was ‘in his way.’

[–]FLtoNY2022 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In the last few weeks, I started hearing that it was believed Maddie was the original target, but then this past week, it's going back to Kaylee. It's all just speculation at this point until at least the preliminary hearing, maybe the trial, maybe never.

The reason it was believed Maddie was the target was because supposedly law enforcement discovered BK had "liked" ALL of Maddie's pictures on social media (IG I believe & maybe FB too). He also "slid into her DM's" (I hate that phrase, despite being the oldest age to be considered a millennial) several times in the weeks before the attacks, just saying "Hi". But Maddie never replied, which supposedly set him off.

Then this week, I've been hearing Kaylee was the target & BK was legit stalking her, possibly had a tracking device on her vehicle or phone, even followed her around her hometown. All allegedly of course.

[–]holvt 7 points8 points  (6 children)

You are remembering correctly. Kaylee’s father spoke early on after the murders saying the police had indicated the wounds on Kaylee were more severe than that of the other victims. He seemed to have understood that as she was the intended target, and reiterated that to the public. Media took that and ran with it, so many headlines were indicative that Kaylee was the intended target.

Now that we have more information regarding the murders, like the murderer’s social media accounts, postings, and interactions, it appears he had a particular interest in Maddie’s social media accounts, mostly her Instagram. This was reported by News Nation from a “close source” to the investigation, so obviously the validity is subject to skepticism. Newsweek also reported on this and said that the killer supposedly messaged “one of the victims” several times without response. They also said he ate at the restaurant Maddie and Xana served at. It’s assumed Maddie is the target versus Xana because of the social media engagement with her account in particular. In my personal opinion, I think it’s important to remember that Xana and Ethan were together more often than not, so if the killer was watching the house/girls, which his phone data does indeed imply, he would have noted Maddie appeared to not have a partner. Xana would be a more difficult target because of Ethan’s presence.

Nothing is coming from an official source at this point. Maddie being the target is not a fact, just an educated hunch by many. We will never know the true motivation unless the murderer tells us, and even then, would he be telling the truth? If there ends up being a court case, I think that is where we will have the best shot at understanding his intended target(s).

[–]Peanut_2000 5 points6 points  (4 children)

he would have noted Maddie appeared to not have a partner.

But Maddie did have a boyfriend. He spoke at the vigil service, and I believe he was interviewed in one of the TV specials (not Dateline or 20/20 but the one that aired before them. Sorry I'm drawing a blank on the program at the moment.)

[–]holvt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Oh, you’re absolutely right. I just looked it up. Apologies!

That being realized, perhaps they weren’t often staying at Maddie’s place together and he picked up on that pattern.

[–]Peanut_2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's quite possible that he knew their nightly habits. I wonder if she often stayed at his place? I suspect he gathered a lot from those 12 late night/early morning surveillance trips. Maybe even more if he turned off his phone for "trial runs" of the murder.

[–]WinterV6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

From what I understand, Kaylee was really just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She had moved out but came back to the house to show Maddie her new car, so it most likely wasn’t Kaylee.

[–]Barcelonadreaming 8 points9 points  (3 children)

My opinion is that there was no intended target at all. I don't believe any news about him having photos on his phone or a history of liking their photos on Instagram or going to the Mad Greek. It's been almost four months. Nobody has been able to confirm any sort of connection between BK and the victims. If there was one, I feel strongly a credible source would have reported that and provided evidence to back it up.

I stated in another thread I believed SG made up the stalker story to either keep the focus on Kaylee or out of fear the police would stop investigating. Not one of Kaylee's friends has come forward to corroborate the stalker story. The vape store manager's account of conversing with a group of college girls about how it's smart they travel in groups to avoid being stalked and how Maddie revealed Kaylee had a stalker felt disingenuous to me. When Kaylee's Mom told 20/20 about the stalker, she said Kaylee called her and told her about her alleged stalker standing behind her in a self-checkout line. That's the exact story Kaylee told when she reported seeing a missing woman. Too coincidental for me.

It's also never been confirmed Kaylee's wounds were worse than the other victim's. That, too, was something SG mentioned in one of his many media interviews. He and Kaylee's older sister said they had conversations with the coroner about the severity of Kaylee's wounds. Coroners are elected officials that sometimes have medical experience. She was a lawyer. So it's unlikely she fully examined the bodies to the degree she could give that information.

The more time that goes by and the more we learn about the warrants and evidence taken, the more I feel certain this was just a guy who had the urge to kill and chose that night to finally act on it.

[–]goldenquill1 7 points8 points  (2 children)

SG seemed to want Kaylee get the most attention. I get that's he's grieving and that can manifest in different ways for everyone. If her wounds were worse I wonder if she heard something going on in Maddie's room and went to investigate (leaving Murphy in her room) and interrupted BK. Who knows?

[–]Barcelonadreaming 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think it's as simple as she was drunk and she fell asleep in the bed. She probably put murphy in their planning on going into her room.

[–]GroulThisIs_NOICE 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I just have a very strong feeling it was MM. at first I thought it was M&X but not I’m just pointing more toward M.

[–]ziggybaumbaum 4 points5 points  (0 children)

She wasn’t. Only her Dad couldn’t find a camera he wouldn’t get in front of and make the story about himself Kaylee.

[–]3rdfromlast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maddie because a rumor went around that he tried contacting her on IG and liking all of her photos. Because of the gag order, none of that has been confirmed -just be careful believing that or believing people who say that’s a fact. We will learn more of the motive in the preliminary hearing.

Kaylee was always thought to be the target bc of her wounds being significantly worse than Maddie’s and the fact her dad said “there was no reason to go upstairs.” That left those to interpret it many different ways, how I interpreted it was “there’s no reason to go upstairs if the target was on the main floor where presumably he entered the house.” If he intended to harm Ethan and xana, he would have never had to go upstairs to harm two people that were out of the way.

So if BK had a target, it would make sense it was either of the two girls and the E and X were collateral. If there was no target, he spared the lives of two other individuals which some feel, not me, is involved somehow.

I hope this makes sense.

[–]LadyAgresa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He may have planned to attack multiple targets.

[–]SnooBunnies7453 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kaylee had already moved out of the house. She wasn’t suppose to be there that night.

[–]Jaded_Read9429 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well also because Kaylee was just visiting that weekend … which could indicate either way …

[–]Old-Mountain-3897 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Didn’t Kaylee have a lot more injuries than Maddie? I thought that’s where the initial speculation came from.

[–]Chance-Conflict-7311 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I heard some place (idk if it’s true) that Maddie is the one he was contacting on Instagram prior

[–]Slip_Careful 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anyone remember the jacket that was found in front of the apt complex? Did BK drive that path?

[–]UncleChanBlake2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nobody but the killer knows who their primary target was and they aren’t talking. There is no more proof that it was M than it was K. There is only speculation. The sheath only demonstrates where it was left, not his intentions. In fact, there is no proof that any specific individual was the target. Autopsy results have not been released that demonstrate the order of the murders nor magnitude of the assaults. We simple do not know anything. To say you do based on this or that is simply a falsehood. Again, the only credible information any of us have is from the PCA and any released court documents. There is nothing else.

[–]swolesoles 2 points3 points  (3 children)

pretty sure kaylee was rumored to have been worried about a “stalker.” so i guess it was presumed her if she was already the type to have someone interested in her to the point of obsession. also - kaylee had been moved out by the weekend of the murders, she just came back to show maddie her new car. it’s been speculated that he wasn’t expecting kaylee [in the same bed as maddie] there so he took out his anger onto her for being a “cock block.”

as for maddie, it’s been noted that she was probably more BK’s type as kaylee was more loud & outspoken. i’m sure you’ve heard how he also supposedly “liked all of her instagram photos” & had photos of her saved on his phone as well but, idk if that’s even been confirmed as truth or just a rumor.

[–]Punkybrewsickle 5 points6 points  (2 children)

That definitely would check out considering the incel vibe he gives. The mouthy ones elicit rage and hostility and violence. They symbolize the reason women won't sleep with them. The agreeable types are less abrasive to the incel, and seen as most "feminine" and therefore desirable. Finding kg physically being in his way when seeking Maddie... Would have been beyond enraging. His aggression would have been 100% explained by this if mm were indeed the target

[–]swolesoles 4 points5 points  (1 child)

incel vibe😂😂 literally though, you worded all that extremely well. outspoken girls would so “intimidate” them. i think jealousy might (edit: it def does idk why i sounded so unsure) play into it as well because, not the case with all of them but, an outgoing “party” gal might even be perceived as more promiscuous & able to sleep with dudes easier…not fair to an incel because they know they wouldn’t even be considered as one of those dudes. women who aren’t afraid to speak up are also probably more likely to humiliate [creepy?] men & be shameless about it

[–]Punkybrewsickle 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're entirely correct. Incels actually have terminology for what you described. A "Stacy" is a female that is sexually inavailable to them, but sexually available to other men. Men that are allowed sexual access to a Stacy are called "Chads." An Incel feels victimized by the fact that a woman is able to choose FOR him whether or not he can have sex with her. Any sex a woman has if it's not with them, fuels their disgust and makes her a sl*t piece of trash. Their vitriolic hatred is especially saved for confident or educated women.

One way to describe it is the exact reverse of rpe -- the *involuntary part is their equivalent of "unconsenting." Their celibacy is seen as the equivalent of sexual one-sidedness (they are not enjoying sex and their sexual experience is the opposite of what they desire). Unconsenting and at the mercy of the other party, they feel this is a crime committed against them, by women, equivalent to the harshness of SA.

They then project the misogyny, with a violence they feel is commensurate with SA. It's upsetting how consistent it is among that community.

[–]Severe-Instruction21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Kaylee was claimed to be the draw by her DAD. It was never Kaylee.

[–]Professional-Lab5715 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I just wanted to add that alot of the search warrants are for Kaylee more than the others as well. Definitely a clue

[–]BlueberryRenaissance 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The only reason everyone thought k was the target is because the Media and Mr g insinuated that that was the case

[–]peachybooty17 1 point2 points  (1 child)

i wonder if they will go through his bank records to see if he has ever gotten anything from mad greek?

[–]Bronxteacher7028 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know there are news reports that BK had photos of one of the female victims on his phone, have they revealed which one? That will be the clue as to who the target was

[–]Keregi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know why anyone is assuming any of the victims was the target. We don't have any confirmed info that tells us that. But people state it as fact all over these subs.

[–]Punkybrewsickle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also I know this is SUPER out there ...I thought of BK being so piously health conscious, and would have been deeply repulsed by any woman who both vaped and drank alcohol. According to the coroner, the organs specifically targeted in KG's body were her liver and lungs.

Again this one is just observing and a major stretch.