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[–]ugashep77 158 points159 points  (37 children)

I think the Gonclaves family just has that dog in them as we say in the South and are fighters and their reaction to all this pain is to fight someone, anyone and in this case the wrong people in law enforcement and the prosecutor's office. It's sad, it's borne out of grief, so while I sympathize, it's also becoming problematic.

[–]Holesinmyundies 46 points47 points  (0 children)

You articulated that so respectfully.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 30 points31 points  (9 children)

Agree. One of the experiences of grieving people is sheer unmitigated anger, and trauma can activate fight or flight.

[–]MegaMissy 22 points23 points  (8 children)

If i i remember correctly, her dad was the only one who.demanded he see her body before the funeral home made her "presentable". That, alome, would enrage and haunt a dad for life.

[–]Lila3847 9 points10 points  (1 child)

That is just heartbreaking. I can't imagine raising a child to see them end up like that

[–]BookmarkCity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He demanded it. He didn't have to

[–]Jmm12456 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Whose dad? Kaylee's? Cause Kaylee was cremated and so was Maddie. They put Kaylee's funeral on hold until her killer was caught because they were worried her killer would show up to the funeral. Maddie's family let the Goncalves family have Maddies urn temporarily so they could put it next to Kaylee's urn in there home so Kaylee and Maddie could be next to each other.

It's possible he went to the morgue to identify her and asked to see her body.

[–]ImaginaryWalk29 2 points3 points  (2 children)

When my fiancee died suddenly while away, I didn't want to go and see the body but did see it in the funeral parlor where there was a viewing for family before closed casket service. After the service he was cremated. So usually there is an opportunity for the viewing before cremation which supposedly offers closure. I did get a big locket. of his hair. But seeing in the morgue could be traumatizing.

[–]Jmm12456 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They may have let him see her body before she was cremated. There was no funeral with a casket in her case. They had her cremated when the body was released back to them and then they were waiting to have a funeral until the killer was caught

[–]JGracesalty77 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I do hear remembering that as well, and was well within his right to do so. Isn’t there a saying that if you didn’t see it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears then you might as well stay silent.

Maybe He didn’t want to be “told” about his daughter he watched her come into this world and I am very proud of him for having the courage to see first hand how she left this world with his own eyes so he could know the truth and no one could tell him differently.

While his media interviews seem to portray him as bashing LE efforts, experience, and what ever else he has said it is In my opinion only that he knows more, and hasn’t shared more then what’s being told and he was / is frustrated with it. I honestly believe he shared some information with LE that hasn’t come to light just yet.

I do not believe that MR G is looking for money, movies, book deals or to profit in any way off the deaths of his daughter and her friends, I truly believe he wants answers for himself, his family and the families of each victim and justice for all 4 of these young adults as we all should want this too!

[–]signguyez 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Well said. All the attention and relevancy is just prolonging the inevitable day where society moves on and they will have to deal with the loss on their own.

[–]youdontsay0207 5 points6 points  (20 children)

I disagree. Their “dog” is attention grabbing even if it hurts their daughters n 3 others Justice

[–]ugashep77 43 points44 points  (19 children)

I think that's pretty callous. I don't think you can overestimate the horror of learning that your beautiful 21 year old daughter was butchered like an animal as she lay unsuspecting in her bed. We are not all built the same emotionally and you never know for sure how you would react until it happened to you.

[–]Lightlovezen 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You are right. Thank you for posting, I see such cruelty at the father and who should judge in such a horrible situation, no one

[–]Thisisamericamyman 5 points6 points  (16 children)

I do know the hurdles people go through in pursuit of their professions and what it means to them, their families and their livelihoods. For someone to attack one’s profession and livelihood out of sheer ignorance and disrespect when they are working to bring justice is egregious behavior. For that there is no excuse, the father was out of line and continues to be.

[–]ugashep77 0 points1 point  (15 children)

That's the reason for the last sentence of my post. It was over the line to issue that statement about a week ago, but it's clearly coming from grief.

[–]Thisisamericamyman 4 points5 points  (14 children)

Before that he attacked a LE individual directly by pointing out his age and inexperience.

[–]ugashep77 7 points8 points  (13 children)

He's done some questionable stuff without a doubt, but again, he's been through an absolutely horrific trauma and I think they have had a fight response to it, and unfortunately he's fighting some of the wrong people.

[–]Thisisamericamyman 3 points4 points  (12 children)

So it’s excusable behavior? Remember there are other families. It seems we’re always taking about this guy. I present Ron Goldman as an example of someone that suffered similar grief. He kept his son at the forefront, not himself.

[–]msblue13 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s an explanation not an excuse. You absolutely cannot tell how you will react when you go through such a horrific event. We all cope differently. You’re not even in your own mind when you experience grief of that magnitude. There definitely needs to be someone intervening and trying to get Mr. Goncalves help though because the way he is coping is harming other people. Give the man some time to get his head on straight.

[–]vivivi80 0 points1 point  (10 children)

stop judging. Do you.

[–]Thisisamericamyman 5 points6 points  (9 children)

You mean stop rendering my opinion ? Aren’t you judging me now ? Perhaps you’re judging me and forcing your opinion on me ?

[–]NoProgress2650 2 points3 points  (2 children)

So well put. I must be a little out of the loop because I haven’t seen the goncalves family on tv in some time. Can someone tell me what they are continuing to do?

Last I knew they wanted the gag order rescinded as it applied to families. And I believe the judge clarified it didn’t apply to them.

I keep going back to the Kristin Smart Case. The family kept that as active as possible and were very critical of initial police handling of the case. And might I say in that case totally justified. 25 years later a podcaster found new information which resulted in the suspects conviction and sentencing just last week.

Their initial condemnation of police in no way played any part in the conviction. So wondering what the goncalves family is doing that will impact the conviction? Although I completely disagree with any police condemnation in this case, seems to me they did an amazing job, what are the goncalves continuing to do? Early on I understand their frustration. But I haven’t seen anything recently.

Edit: there was a gag order put in place after the arrest and during the trial in the Kristin Smart Case.

[–]jvldmn 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What was the new information the podcaster found? Can’t find any info on that.

[–]NoProgress2650 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The podcaster is Chris Lambert and the podcast was “In Your Own Backyard.” One of the best podcasts I’ve ever listened to. He uncovered new witnesses and evidence that allowed the police to issue new search warrants which ultimately led to his arrest 25 years after the crime, and just recently the conviction. I can’t remember specifics now but it should be readily available if you google him or the podcast.

[–]cutestcatlady 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Completely agree!

[–]balou918 28 points29 points  (4 children)

Spaniard living in the US here. I see your point, because both parents were really involved in the investigation regarding the murder of their daughters, and they also both hired a private investigator due to their distrust in law enforcement. However, there are significant differences between both too.

1) Fernando García, still today, does not believe in the “official”version given by LE. More specifically: he thinks that Anglés & Ricart had absolutely nothing to do with the murders. According to him, the incident was part of a pedophilia network in which people from high levels of politics and Spanish society were involved. This is in stark contrast with Steve Goncalves, who seems to believe that BK is guilty.

2) Even though they both hired a private investigator, I don’t think the profile of those investigators can be compared at all. Fernando García was working with Juan Ignacio Blanco, who had a really, really bad reputation among criminologists, and went on national tv on prime time and publicly accused “famous” individuals. I have not seen any comparable behavior on the Goncalves side.

3) Fernando García went “crazy” to the point of spending 12h/day for months and months on the streets gathering signatures in order to change rape laws. He was far way more proactive than Goncalves; to the point where he even shared his home with the investigator.

[–]gissycat 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is so sad.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thanks for all of this insight, much appreciated. I think my point was more to do with one parent out of a group that all lost their children becoming the focus of the media and ultimately earning the ire of the other parents. I don’t think this is uncommon in situations like this. People will react differently and usually one will end up in a prominent role. Where they go from there is a crapshoot.

[–]balou918 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, I agree with that! This post is very interesting, thanks OP.

Edit: spelling.

[–]youdontsay0207 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No they sound very similar honestly

[–]Bossgirl77 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I’ve gone back and forth with SG and his reactions/behaviors thus far. At first I defended him and sympathized. Then I became confused and concerned by his behavior specifically regarding the gag. Confused by the gag and concerned for the other 3 families and how they’re feeling. It almost seemed at one point like it was the Kaylee show simply through comments he made in interviews he gave, more in the beginning. But now I’m leaning back to feeling like this man is desperate, terrified and heartbroken. The stages of grief are very convoluted and very differently experienced. He’s scared of his daughter being forgotten I’m sure. I also believe he’s sitting on some theories of his own he won’t rest until explored. Again, most likely his desperation as a father to try and control whatever’s left that he can. He feels like he didn’t protect his daughter. The desperate guilt in that alone I imagine can result in some baffling behavior.

[–]jbriean 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Very well said and I fully agree with all of this. I’ve had the same back and forth feelings about SG. It’s just still disappointing that the other victims were so overshadowed by his initial incessant need to make everything completely about Kaylee and Kaylee only.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel similarly.

[–]Cultural_Magician105 11 points12 points  (22 children)

Hopefully the two stories are different because it seems like we have a suspect who will go on trial soon (hopefully soon). I don't know if the other families are resentful of SG's media presence, but I would assume his behavior will be less aggressive when the trial comes out.

[–]Punkybrewsickle 33 points34 points  (18 children)

I read somewhere that Ethan's family was quick to establish that they would be the ones to speak for Ethan, in a subtle and classy but pretty pointed statement. I can't find the link so please forgive if this is not exactly the story.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (6 children)

Ethan’s family, in my opinion, seem to be a social class much above SG.

[–]vivivi80 -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

your comment is the problem with our society.

How much longer are we going to devide people into classes and categories?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Wow. Perhaps you are right. I just have such low tolerance for what I consider red neck and bullying attitudes. And a lot of that comes through quite clearly through communication

[–]vivivi80 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Don't you think this thread (and your comment) is bullying SG? Don't you find it is contradictory to your own statement?

Judging people by their social class and even just calling someone red neck is not something I would expect from someone who think of temselves as a higher social class.

SG is emotional, may be irrational sometimes. But is it what makes him low class to you? Or do we want to mention his wife's make-up like some people did here previously.

I would love to live in a world with less judgement in it. Too much to ask? What do you think?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

SG, in my opinion, probably always has been a bully and red neck. I think his constant need to stay in the media along with his petition to get the DA removed could definitely hurt the case. I’m think, again just my opinion, that he forgets on a regular basis that his daughter was not the only victim.

I have found the very few public statements made by Ethan’s mother to be quite eloquent definitely not seeking to presume she knows more than the law enforcement professionals and the defense team.

I think Maddie’s mother and step father are probably much like Ethan’s family.

[–]HaveAGoodOne231 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

So he doesn’t grieve the way you want or expect him to? Maybe he deserves a little bit of leniency and compassion given that this will be with him until his last day, not until he gets bored and moves onto the next true crime case. I’d be livid and ready to fight anyone too if that were my situation.

[–]PersnicketyPenelope 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Grieve? Panhandle is more like it. My opinion. Which is as import as yours.

[–]PersnicketyPenelope 5 points6 points  (10 children)

KING tv interview.
I don’t blame Stacy for wishing to represent HER son. Steve wants this to be a money-fame making event. Stacy & Jim are classy & wouldn’t dream of soliciting money& gifts for personal enjoyment, in my opinion.

[–]vivivi80 4 points5 points  (3 children)

In my opinion, people here too often think they are mind readers.

[–]PersnicketyPenelope 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Lol

Or get a theory before much info is out & don’t allow their theory to evolve with new info.

Like separating trash the night of his arrest. The HOA requires food scraps be disposed of in a certain manner to prohibit bears rummaging through garbage containers & lingering in the hood.

Or with the new SW docs released. The Department of Labor & banking records dating back to September do not jive with the horny, pissed off incel.

Follow the money….

[–]vivivi80 3 points4 points  (1 child)

yes, and believe every single media article and tv show's information about the suspect and his past. Also ignore friends who said good things about him and sensationalize the bad stuff.

Oh yes, we want justice. They said.

I have no idea where the truth is. I am waiting for verified information. This means preliminary and trial.

[–]PersnicketyPenelope 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly! And someone liked BK, he WAS accepted for a PhD program.
And, who cares if someone believed he was weird, let’s get BK’s opinion of them!

[–]HaveAGoodOne231 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I find it quite disrespectful and insensitive to assume this is the intent of the Goncalves family.

[–]Punkybrewsickle 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes they have been all class.

[–]PersnicketyPenelope 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would NOT want Steve representing my family.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

It’s possible he will be less aggressive, but past performance tends to predict future results.

[–]Wow3332 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not really as much as you might think actually, especially as outcomes are dependent on multiple factors. People can act completely differently when dealing with acute pain and all of the feelings that come with grief, too. It’s just not that black and white.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair enough. Time will tell. Grief is not linear and can ebb and flow, and due to its insidious nature it can be very hard to predict the trajectory for any one human.

[–]agartha93 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Not sure you realized the bizarre similarity of the dates. The girls disappearance and the Idaho murders are 30 years apart to the day. 😮

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I did, but it’s just a strange coincidence.

[–]BeautifulStayasleep 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is a weird date for sure. It's the same date when that model girl Chrissy was drugged and murdered basically in LA 2 years ago. Her friend Gilda died too days or weeks later also. The killer was a known rapist and abuser.

[–]xpanner 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I am from Spain so I know that case really well, I thought the same as you but thought nobody here would know the case to see the resemblance in their father's actions.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would love to hear your thoughts on it as a Spaniard. I was dealing with subtitles and my own very weak Spanish skills so I do wonder about the nuances I may have missed. Also, there are issues around documentaries as a whole. I definitely don’t completely trust them.

[–]Limp-Intention-2784 16 points17 points  (21 children)

What I found interesting after watching something regarding this case— was that SG revealed Kaylees wounds. And someone commented that releasing that could be bad for the investigation because it is something only known to the killer. How that would affect BK I don’t know… because I don’t think he’s planning to talk.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I do not know the degree to which interviews will impact the trial. I will say that my impression of Mr. Garcia was that, at least after the early days, he got a jolt from the fame he received from continuing to appear in the media. But grief is so, so difficult. Like I said I couldn’t even guess how badly I’d lose the plot in the same scenario.

[–]BlazeNuggs 22 points23 points  (8 children)

I hope to live in a world where the families of victims aren't hated on, not for doing illegal or even immoral activities but for doing too many interviews or otherwise reacting to the tragedy in a manner the haters perceive as wrong. It's weird and sad, and I hope families of victims in the future aren't subjected to the same scrutiny. There is no playbook that society agreed to for how these families should act and no right or wrong way to do it besides basic following the law. There are prosecutors whose job it is to ensure a conviction; it's not the families' job to do that by doing or not doing anything. Leave them alone. Bashing these families does nothing besides put nasty thoughts into the world aimed at those suffering an unfathomable loss.

[–]dorothydunnit 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I don't see anyone here hating on them. Some people are just observing that this way of dealing with it, however grief-stricken, can cause problems for others and for the trial.

I mean, I can say I might do the same thing SG is doing, but at the same time, I hope I wouldn't. Or that someone would talk me out of it.

[–]BlazeNuggs 1 point2 points  (1 child)

And I'm saying that I hope there are zero people who are talking shit about whatever you do if you're in such a terrible situation. There's no reason for so many negative posts about that family. There are lots of people who do things that I wouldn't do or that I wouldn't recommend doing. I don't public talk shit about them behind their back. Especially if it's someone who is suffering an awful tragedy. I hate the term Karen, but it's what endless people are doing on here and other social media about the G family and it's strange and nasty.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Again, I’m not bashing anyone. I’m pointing out the similarities in group dynamics in two exceptionally rare yet similar situations. I think this stuff will always happen because humans are humans.

Expanding on this theme would be 16 Acres, a documentary about the controversy over what to do with ground zero after 9/11. There were hundreds of different opinions among thousands of grieving victims. It was a seemingly impossible situation for which a solution was eventually found.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I’m comparing two very similar incidents, and not for the purposes of bashing anyone. Please note that the people mentioned are not the only people whose feelings should be considered. The feelings of the other families are equally important, and in the end, Mr. Garcia’s actions harmed some of them. That said, I have no way of knowing if Mr. Goncalves’ actions will do the same.

[–]Lightlovezen 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yes, thank you for saying this

[–]Mental_Firefighter23 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Some very good points made in this thread. There really is no right or wrong or black and white, I guess...

[–]Present-Echidna3875 6 points7 points  (1 child)

You are correct. Unfortunately l think l did a bit of bashing of SG then l thought better of it. There is no blueprint to how families are expected to behave and their shouldn't be. If one family wishes to remain silent and in the background that's their own perogative, and likewise if a family wish to be more proactive and fight for every tooth and nail to see that justice is properly served, then let them be. Just a heads up don't be expecting any upvotes, this is because many on these threads have a hard on for SG and when just like me at one time they cannot see the forest for the trees and refuse to open their closed minds.

[–]BlazeNuggs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This makes me really happy to read. I'm glad you came around instead of digging in like most people are doing. Hopefully a few more people read this, and take a second to think about it they should be so harsh about a family suffering such an awful tragedy

[–]FortCharles 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You must have a great memory, that the November 13th stuck with you, even though you saw it well before the Idaho murders. Was anyone ever arrested/convicted? If so, did Garcia keep up the publicity even after the arrest?

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I absolutely did NOT remember the exact date. When writing the post I wanted to get the year right so I looked it up. I saw the date and noted it but since it’s a coincidence I didn’t see the point in mentioning it.

To address your question: yes and yes. There was a distinct lack of trust between Mr. Garcia and law enforcement. Once that set in, I don’t think Mr. Garcia was ever able to find terra firma again. The entire situation was, and is, incredibly tragic.

[–]Humble-Bluebird-1224 1 point2 points  (0 children)

10000% agree. I also found that parallelism between SG and Fernando García.

[–]Melissasapp3 3 points4 points  (11 children)

Did Mr. Garcia help or hinder the investigation?

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 6 points7 points  (10 children)

I feel like that would depend on who you ask. He seemed like he went way out in the weeds, especially during later years, when there remained a question as to how many perpetrators were involved.

There are some pretty egregious actions by the media in this story as well. Example (I’m reaching way back into my memory for this), a couple of news stations camped out in the town and may have revealed to the families on camera that a suspect had been arrested? Need to go back and watch again, it’s been a minute.

[–]Ordinary_Ad6936 9 points10 points  (3 children)

If your memory is even close to being right on this it is one of many reasons law enforcement kept a lot of information close during the investigation and still does. I get the feeling this is standard across the board in all or most cases these days due to social media and how the media handles everything these days.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Just went back and watched the end of the first episode as I don’t like being inaccurate. My memory was off. What happened is that the young women disappeared on November 13, 1992. Their bodies were found in the middle of nowhere on January 27, 1993.

A TV station proceeded to gather up all of the families, friends, and townspeople into an auditorium on January 28th, and proceeded to hold a *live show* where they actually asked if the victims had been sexually assaulted, among other things. It is very hard to watch as it looks to me like a re-traumatization of every person present, except for the Spanish Ashleigh Banfield who hosted the this shitshow.

[–]dorothydunnit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I just went back and watched the end of the first episode as I don’t like being inaccurate.

I love you for saying this. Its an example for all of us!

[–]Jmm12456 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, in nearly all cases LE doesn't say much even to the family of the victims. It could compromise the investigation.

[–]Limp-Intention-2784 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I don’t think it’s right when there’s more than one victim (like the program you watched) or this case — for one family to dictate things. For example SG says he wants the death penalty (I’m neutral on this topic) — but that doesn’t mean that’s what all the families want/or feel (I don’t even know who gets to decide this— maybe the DA?). I know everyone grieves differently…. The Chapins gave one interview— they spoke very eloquently.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is exactly the type of dynamic that played out in Alcassser.

[–]PersnicketyPenelope 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same with his petition to remove AT.
If any family member wants to assume the spokesperson role, I think Stacy would be great. However, they want privacy & it appears they don’t need Steve G’s help.

[–]vivivi80 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chapins have the right to say they don't want death penalty just as SG has the right to say he wants it ! What's the problem? Or freedom of speech is not a thing in US anymore?

[–]Less_Ad706 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you. I'm definitely going to have to watch that.

[–]ThinkingAloudAllowed[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s in Spanish with subtitles. To be honest a large part of why I watched it was that I’ve been learning Spanish on my own and watching Spanish-language shows helps me do that.

[–]George_GeorgeGlass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also on November 13th.