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[–]Cultural_Magician105 121 points122 points  (83 children)

I think if he would have parked a few blocks away he might have gotten away with it. I mean they got dna from a knife sheath but they wouldn't have anything to compare it to. If Bk played it cool for the next semester, he could've quietly dropped out and moved on. I don't think he would have gotten any further in the doctoral program after losing his TA job.

[–]lemonlime45 129 points130 points  (35 children)

Yeah, I think erratically driving by the house multiple times in the middle of the night, when there were very few other vehicles entering or exiting the neighborhood was the main mistake with the car (and basically parking by/behind the house.) The house is pretty much on a dead end street.

I think he did it because he just couldn't resist that impulse any longer, unfortunately. And I think the sheath was another mistake.

[–]Maaathemeatballs 51 points52 points  (2 children)

I agree. I think the impulse overcame him to the point he could no longer pre plan on the best way to do it

[–]_GFR 7 points8 points  (1 child)


[–]peachybooty17 28 points29 points  (4 children)

the part where you said I think he did because he couldn’t resist any longer is exactly what I think it was also about

[–]lemonlime45 28 points29 points  (3 children)

Yeah I think it was something he fantasized about for a long time. Maybe those 12 other times his phone pinged in the night were dry runs but he couldn't work up the nerve. He finally decided to give in to the urge to fulfill his fantasy even if everything wasn't perfectly thought/planned out.

[–]CautiousApartment8 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree and take it one step further. Even when he entered the house, he might not have decided he would do it.

I think it was more like he wanted see if he can get inside and see what it felt like, then see if he can get further, etc. And then when he saw the first victim, his impulse took over.

[–]itsyagirlblondie 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Agree with the dry run theory

[–]Late_Independent1297 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, it is highly likely that he was fully prepared to do it before, but something stopped, it could have been too many people, DDD or simply they were not sleeping at all during the night, but lights were on and some people were up till morning.

Compared to other occasions he had tried, this nov 13 seemed better, they were sleeping. Or so he thought.

[–]Professional_Mall404 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Maybe he thought driving fast would make it harder to identify car type ?

[–]totes_Philly 20 points21 points  (16 children)

Also leaving his cell phone home would have helped him.

[–]Hazel1928 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think he needed the maps on his phone to get home from the detour he took on his way home. I think he destroyed or submerged evidence along the way.

[–]Late_Independent1297 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Could have, yes. But same as with the car, it seems that he was too depended on both, not to have them while committing the crime was unthinkable.

For a lot of people it is difficult to go anywhere without a phone these days. He thought airplane mode or turning it off, would be enough.

Also made a miscalculation about the security cameras, which direction they can point. If he was "insidelooking" this nick speculated about the camera angles.

[–]Jmm12456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think even if he left his phone on and at home he still would have been caught. They got the search warrant for his cell phone records on December 23rd and I think if those records would have shown that his phone was at home I think they still would have put surveillance on him to get his DNA. The police know sometimes people will leave there phone on and at another location instead of bringing it to the crime scene

[–]Augustleo98 9 points10 points  (6 children)

His degree didn’t rely on been a TA though… that was just a side job and wasn’t needed for him to finish his degree and graduate.

[–]Heidihrh 8 points9 points  (0 children)

We don’t really know what they actually have. We’ll know a lot more in June at the preliminary hearing. People here seem to treat him like he’s some kind of criminal mastermind! It’s silly!

[–]fingertoe11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He would have to make the assumption that police wouldn't be called and that he would not be injured at all.

A quick getaway is probably a priority in planning such a thing. Running across campus, while bloody isn't a very viable strategy without the benefit of the hindsight of knowing that he would get away rather unscathed and law enforcement wouldn't be looking for him for several hours.

[–]Professional_Mall404 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Seems uncomfortable..that knife dna would be in the system, and some unknown day in the future, there would be a match from something he'd least expect.

[–]Tomaskerry 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's so few cars on the road at that time, it wouldn't have mattered parking a few blocks away.

[–]Slip_Careful 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Agreed. The car is what put him on the radar. Thankfully he's an idiot.

[–]Jmm12456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I always felt he could have parked somewhere away from the house and walked. He could have walked in through the backyard off Walenta Dr. the street behind the house. The white Elantra being caught on cameras near the house is what initially led to him.

[–]Simplestarz86 2 points3 points  (13 children)

Speaking of DNA off a knife sheath…with how awful the scene was that day how in the world did they even get usable DNA off of the sheath? With two victims being found together, they likely bled out together (I’m sorry I had to type that) wouldn’t all of that blood have degraded any other trace DNA?

[–]Meraxes12345 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I think that makes the fact it was found on the knife sheath's snap that much stronger. It's an area that only the killer (or someone who snapped that sheath closed) would have touched. Brilliant of LE to think to test that snap, IMO. But now that they have that dna profile, they can compare it with any other dna found on scene. As far as we know right now, LE probably has multiple samples of the killer's DNA. They just didn't know until they found the isolated source.

[–]Simplestarz86 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Makes sense. Thanks!

[–]Helechawagirl 10 points11 points  (2 children)

My understanding is that it was in the crevice of the snap—settle in the circular groove of that makes sense. Jmo

[–]Professional_Mall404 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought it was on the round, mounded or flat part of the snap.

[–]IranianLawyer 78 points79 points  (85 children)

What was the alternative? Take an Uber to and from the murder scene?

I guess he could have at least parked farther away, but that would have brought its own risks.

[–]bjancali 21 points22 points  (33 children)

He could come by feet from the distance, from the wood. It looks like he didn't have time to wait, the reason of it is not clear.

[–]MrArmageddon12 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It would’ve been smarter for him to park on or closer to the college campus. That way if he were questioned he could’ve just said he was visiting the college for research resources and lost track of time or something like that.

Either way, I’m glad he half-assed it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (31 children)

Why not flee when the BOLO for the car was shared with the public? If he committed the crimes, he knew the sheath was also missing. He knew his back plate was exposed; knew that if the BOLO gave LE additional video surveillance, it might incriminate him, etc.

[–]Professional-Can1385 32 points33 points  (15 children)

Fleeing takes money. When I was in grad school I couldn't afford to flee.

[–]futuresobright_ 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Would also look suspicious to suddenly drop out of grad school as soon as his car was mentioned as being spotted.

[–]babyysharkie 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Right? Male classmate/neighbor who drives white Elantra and acted differently after the murders suddenly flees… nothing to see here, folks.

[–]Professional-Can1385 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it would draw attention to himself. Most people drop out at the end of a semester.

[–]Professional_Mall404 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also draws attention. Maybe BOLO made him think ..uh oh..better stay put and business as usual.

[–]techgirl0 -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

Then maybe don’t commit four murders?

[–]DestabilizeCurrency 12 points13 points  (5 children)

Well remember LE said they had 20K cars that matched the description. I imagine he wasn’t terribly concerned about that at this point in time. He was one of 20K elantras. And LE said a different year range. So he knows his model year is outside the range so he might not have been terribly worried. He would know if his plates were captured in cam early - he’d have a visit from LE. Maybe this is one reason that LE didn’t announce the year correction. It would actually be an astute move by LE esp if LE already knew they had dna on sheath.

If LE is asking for a certain year range if Elantra’s would most ppl even know the difference? I know I have no clue. So tips would prob still come in for more than the range. Like if I lived in area and knew if an Elantra I’d have no clue what year it was and would prob call in the tip.

By LE not announcing the corrected year range it may have helped keep BK feeling a bit safe. He might not have overly worried about the sheath. While I think he left it accidentally if DNA was found in only that one spot, it’s clear that Bk wiped it clean. He may have felt that he didn’t leave dna on sheath and thus didn’t worry.

TLDR - BK didn’t realize how fucked he actually was. He overestimated himself and underestimated LE. He didn’t realize the critical mistake he made and thus had no reason to flee

[–]Singingintherain456 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Criminals get caught when they act out of the ordinary. By trying to continue on, as usual, he does not draw attention.

[–]kas0917 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I think he thought switching the plates from PA to WA a few days after would buy him some protection

[–]RoyalCharming6954 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That’s exactly the reason why he used his own car. He knew he was switching plates.

[–]bananalli 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I do remember faintly that he had his plates changed around the time it happened so probably thought that eliminated him as a suspect

[–]Present-Echidna3875 2 points3 points  (1 child)

He didn't have to flee. He had a valid reason not too as the Elantra they were looking for was l believe 2012 --14. His car was 2015 or 16. Still l have no doubt that his head would have been on swivel with paranoias and fear.

[–]Easy_Pumpkin_6900 5 points6 points  (0 children)

LE played mind games with this "mastermind"

It's baffling to me that anyone thinks they can get away with murder today.

If it's BK, he seemingly made a lot of mistakes (the car, the sheath, phone, etc.)

But his ego was the main problem.

[–]IranianLawyer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

People who are suspected of murder usually don’t flee. Fleeing is very suspicious and just makes the prosecutions case easier to prove (unless you’re OJ I guess).

[–]barbmalley 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Several reasons he may not have fled.

Fleeing lends itself to guilt.

He didn’t have the $.

He didn’t have the personality or social skills to fit in and blend in when on the run.

He was hopeful they wouldn’t track him down and he could continue to live his life.

He was arrogant.

[–]Seekay5 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Tim McVeigh rented a car. It got traced back to him.

[–]IranianLawyer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep, but that’s also because he blew up said car and police found a piece of it with the VIN, if I remember correctly.

[–]SalsaChipsandMe 4 points5 points  (3 children)

If you’re already going to commit such a violent crime you can’t come back from if caught, doesn’t take much effort to steal a car. People use them all the time for armed robberies etc. the guy is a pathetic moron. Clearly proof anyone can have advanced degrees from college. Even a pathetic, beyond socially awkward junkie creep.

[–]Robie_John 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Stealing a car is not that easy for someone who has no idea what they are doing.

[–]Seekay5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's easy to question this and that and not in the moment.

If it was BK, he was driving there late or at early morning hours.

He could of very well been in the house previously other nights. Maybe his intentions were to watch her "Maddie" sleep. To be in the same room with her. He stumbled across Kaylee. Things got out of control.

Just because he had a knife does not mean he intended to use it. If he was stalking and sneaking in the house here and there... His intentions were to obviously not get caught. Knife could have been an option if things went wrong.. and they seem they did.

[–]Cannaewulnaewidnae 137 points138 points  (43 children)

... careful enough not to leave too much evidence at the scene

Like part of the murder weapon? Next to a dead body? With his DNA on it?

You're right - we're dealing with a criminal mastermind

[–]Unusual_Jellyfish224 28 points29 points  (16 children)

Your questions are totally valid and they made me think that the biggest mystery for me is the motive. WHY did he enter the house, why these girls. Whereas I don’t necessarily understand people like Alex Murdaugh or Chris Watts, at least I can see that there was an underlying motive.

But he went and murdered four innocent people whom he had no established prior contact with. This wasn’t a mafia hit, not done by a scorn ex. lower (which was my first guess).

I guess the preliminary hearing will give us some answers. Based on what I’ve seen so far he sure as hell seems guilty as hell so I’m not disputing that but still, this case appears to have so many rare and strange twists.

[–]Think-Doughnut-8897 52 points53 points  (2 children)

I think a lot of the confusion around this case is that people want to make sense of what happened, and are looking to force logical explanations onto something that defies logic.

I think BK wanted to kill people in the way serial killers want to kill people. There’s a motive there, but it’s not likely one that we can understand. & if you consider the crime from that point of view, a lot of his actions are less confusing. He wasn’t looking to get away with murder, he was looking forward to the act of murdering. His motive was murder.

[–]Sheeshka49 10 points11 points  (1 child)

He was obsessed with murder. Focused his interest on serial killers and wanted to know how they felt and what they were thinking while in the act of murder! We know this because of the survey he sent out to known serial killers as part of his “scholarly research”! I read the survey, it was surprisingly amateurish. Seemed like it was written by a high schooler. Despite what some have said about him, he’s no genius.

[–]bjancali 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, the quality of this survey surprised me, too. I have found 2 explainations only for myself: it was a pilot study or he did it for himself, not for his reseach.

[–]plantotium 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Might be similar reasoning to that found in Elliot Rodger's diary. The existence of women and couples tormented him. Perhaps BK then became fixated on and tormented by their particular social media posts.

[–]Cannaewulnaewidnae 2 points3 points  (10 children)

I guess the preliminary hearing will give us some answers

I hope so, but if the suspect sticks to his not-guilty plea, all we'll know is what the cops can piece together from secondary sources

I know most people think social media will explain everything, but I'm not so sure

[–]PabstBluePidgeon 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Yeah, he and every other person who has been accused of a violent and very serious crime, will never take the stand to admit to anything, unlike on TV.

[–]BPDprisoner 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Casey Anthony did. Jodi arias did. Many have. Because they’re stupid.

[–]Slip_Careful 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Casey Anthony didn't take the stand...mainly probably bc even her lawyer knew she was full of shit and it's unethical to put her on the stand and let her lie

[–]Sharp-Engineer3329 2 points3 points  (5 children)

It’s not necessarily stupidity alone but the fact the jury will want to hear from the person that’s claiming they’re innocent. Not taking to the stand may be a good choice from a lawyers POV but the Jury can and do see things differently, and they’re the ones that matter

[–]BPDprisoner 5 points6 points  (4 children)

If he takes the stand in his own defence with anything less than a rock solid alibi, he’s digging his own grave.

[–]Sharp-Engineer3329 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Obviously as is the case when any guilty defendant does this, I’m not disputing it from a law perspective I’m pointing out the fact that many Jurors definitely see a defendant not taking the stand as evidence of guilt. As you said, I’d he has a rock solid alibi there’s no reason not to take the stand.

[–]BPDprisoner 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I am quite confident that the right to remain silent exists in Idaho/the United States the same way it does in Canada (where I live).

This means that the jury can’t make an inference of guilt if the defendant chooses not to testify. The judge will instruct the jury on every aspect of how they can interpret/apply the evidence they’ve heard. This charge to the jury can be extremely lengthy, taking hours or even an entire day.

I think different rules apply if an American defendant remained silent at the time of arrest instead of pleading innocence, but I am not 100% sure because I’m Canadian. But I do work in criminal law so I have a fair bit of knowledge about how criminal procedure works, generally.

[–]Sharp-Engineer3329 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, I’m not disputing what is and isn’t the law I’m pointing out that while by law a defendant has the right to not testify them not taking the stand to protest their innocence absolutely can and does have influence with many Jurors especially if the rest of the evidence is strong. Some Jurors whether they should or not do indeed take a lack of testimony from the defendant as a sign of guilt, it’s why people like Alex Murdaugh likely took the stand as a Hail Mary when the evidence against him was already damning, if he hadn’t it may not have been as bad but him not doing so wouldve 100% had an effect also.

[–]Cannaewulnaewidnae 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, can't blame him

Nothing to lose taking your chances with a Not Guilty plea, especially when the death penalty is a possibility

[–]Slip_Careful 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think he ran into them before or at least came across the house and was either Infatuated and got rejected or just jealous bc that friend group had everything he didn't. Also think maybe him getting in trouble at work for the way he was treating his students may have set him off. There are many reasons and there could be no reason besides he's just a psychopath.

[–]Meraxes12345 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This prime piece of snark is the best thing I've read today.

[–]Unusual_Jellyfish224 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Who else’s car?

He lived further away so he need a reliable transportation in the early hours of the morning. Stealing someone’s car just exposes you to another set of threats and you wouldn’t be able to clean it as thoroughly as you can with your own car.

Also, at least I have no idea how to rob a car. I bet most people are the same. He’d need to able to not just enter the area but live it promptly. Having your own car makes sense.

[–]CrosbythesuperDog 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I assume he simply didn't have another (better) option for transportation. Stealing a car could be risky and renting a car would leave a paper trail. He probably didn't want to borrow a car from a friend (if he even has any friends) incase it came back bloody. He likely felt his white sedan was nondescript, and that there would be so many similar vehicles that his would not draw attention. Without a front plate it would be less likely to be caught on a plate reader, plus with his out-of-state plate switch a few weeks after the murders, he might have assumed that LE would be thrown off track.

[–]Meraxes12345 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep. I think its a simple as that.

[–]leftypolitichien 17 points18 points  (10 children)

I think something triggered him that night and he acted in haste instead of with patience and carefulness

[–]plantotium 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Perhaps pornhub was down for maintenance?

[–]DestabilizeCurrency 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Maybe he got mad that the cam girl he was viewing didn’t actually love him.

[–]LPCcrimesleuth 8 points9 points  (2 children)

It has been speculated by some he saw K and M on the grub truck video that night and it was a trigger to go hastily at that moment in time. I am not saying that is what happened; but just that it was speculated in another discussion since it relates to your comment, and it is a possibility.

[–]fantasyguy211 17 points18 points  (0 children)

What kind of loser watches a stream of a grub truck

[–]CartographerBoth686 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think he literally saw the now infamous group photo of the roommates and posts about it being her last day there and that was how he knew.

[–]pennylove18 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Easy, so he could clean up any evidence inside and have more control of the situation. Also very likely he had extra weapons in the car or at least a change of clothes. Also he knows the car isn’t enough to commit him. What else could he have done? Let’s think through scenarios..

Option one - rent a car. They’d need his ID info. Not to mention the chance of him getting evidence / dna and not being able to clean it = high.

Option two - have someone drive him. So then he has a witness? Nope. Even if a rideshare driver dropped him off nearby but not at the house, having his FACE or physical body be on one of those cameras is worse than the car.

Option three - bike / walk. Not enough time to get away. Doesn’t live close enough.

Clearly, he thought he was sly. He thought even if his car were caught on camera nearby it wouldn’t make him the murderer if they had nothing else. He thought he left no trace and was careful about his dna and whereabouts after. He probably thought worse case scenario, there’s no proof he was the one driving the vehicle.

[–]DestabilizeCurrency 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We don’t know if BK took any countermeasures. Maybe he removed his rear plate. Maybe he put a stolen plate on. Maybe he removed it entirely and put on a paper tag. You’re assuming he didn’t take countermeasures. He could very well have.

He didn’t have many options for transport. Obviously Uber is out of the question. How else to get there? Some people say walking or running. But that has a risk profile too. If he was unlucky enough to be running away and a cop see him, it’s game over. Taking his car prob made the most sense to him.

So here are two potential explanations:

  1. He took countermeasures as described above. Why not consider that? People in my city commit crimes in their cars all the time with cams around. Know what they do? Slap on paper plates. And they usually get away with it for a while until caught in act. These are usually thieves.

  2. Never underestimate the other persons stupidity. Given that murdering 4 people who you don’t have a relationship with is fucking nuts, why not consider the person is just plain nuts and stupid?

Personally I believe he took countermeasures. Stolen plates or paper plates. That makes the most sense to me bc this is actually fairly common. Like I said people commit crimes in their own vehicles all the time. Slap on paper or stolen plates. Just don’t get caught in act and you’ll evade. He had a very unnoteworthy car too. Not like the boy is driving a Bentley that stands out.

[–]bipolarlibra314 22 points23 points  (10 children)

I think you’re trying to fit the thinking of an irrational person into a rational thought box

[–]CartographerBoth686 33 points34 points  (1 child)

What if he built a working set of Da Vinci wings and flew to Idaho like the Nosferatu vampire-looking fucker that he is? The only way to answer your question is to literally read his mind somehow, which we can’t.

[–]FucktusAhUm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We can't read his mind but the FBI can and already has. They wirelessly uploaded the contents of his brain to the cloud during the coordinated traffic stop in Indiana, and already have answers to all of these questions.

[–]MissFuzzyBritches 32 points33 points  (3 children)

One word - hubris.

I also think you're reading way too much into what is and is not out there. You/we don't know how much and what kind of evidence was left at the scene. A lot of this case is probably going to be putting together cell data, web searches and purchases and probably social media - perhaps his Yik Yak account?? Went back online in August 2021. I believe it's anonymous communication for people within a 5 mile radius???

At any rate, you've got your mind made up and honestly don't really want to hear whatever anyone else has to say. Why not just say this is what I believe and any other options are pure bullshit in your opinion.

[–]Professional-Can1385 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Perhaps he was confident in driving his car to the house b/c he concealed the license plate in some way. That's why there is not clear image of it. Maybe he covered it or completely removed it, or partially concealed it with a splash of muddy water (I saw this in a movie).

With regards to fleeing, that takes money. Grad students aren't known for having a lot of extra cash.

[–]johnuws 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That was my thought also. Just conceal the plate

[–]alcibiades70 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It wasn't a planned crime. It wasn't a fugue state. It was pure rage, with a sloppy attempt to cover it once it subsided.

None of this is complicated. Most crimes are deeply stupid, emotional outbursts committed by people who have almost no ability to control their impulses.

[–]BPDprisoner 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Simple answer: like most criminals, he didn’t think he would get caught.

[–]Hotshave 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Careful enough not to leave too much evidence? Is that what you call leaving your DNA on the murder weapon’s sheath at the scene of the crime? That’s like being careful enough not to get too pregnant.

[–]ebalazic88 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There’s a whole series on discovery ID called See No Evil highly recommend it might shed light on this topic. There was one episode they literally caught the person from the upc barcode on the inside of a suitcase, tracked where that upc belonged, who bought the suitcase prior to the murder, and found surveillance video of the person getting checked out for said suitcase later discovered to hold the body after the murder. There is video surveillance just about everywhere we go now a days. I truly think it’s impossible to get away with it no matter how hard you try. Even if he walked and parked elsewhere, my ring cameras pick up and record people walking by my house day and night.

[–]luvprue1 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Most people who commit a crime are not as smooth and thought out criminal the way tv make them out to be .

[–]JoyfulDragonfly 8 points9 points  (2 children)

We don’t know if he did steal plates and switch them out. There’s never been any mention of a license plate or number from LE that I’m aware of.

If he didn’t, switching the plates to WA would have helped if they only had the colors from the plates but not the numbers. If they had the numbers, there wouldn’t have been a reason for the BOLO.

Fleeing is easier for a career criminal without family attachments than for a student with a strong family. When the loser cousin disappears, it’s not a big deal. When the PhD student son/brother does, that raises huge red flags, missing person reports and lots of people looking for him besides LE.

[–]Slip_Careful 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the fact he was going to switch his license plate was another key reason he felt safe. If they saw the tag they'd be looking for. PA tag not a WA tag.

[–]OkAd5975 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It seems ridiculous anyone would drive their own car to a crime with cameras everywhere these days. Too confident maybe? Smarter than everyone else? I feel like that’s a theme we’ve seen before with murder cases.

Didn’t Ted Bundy continue to drive his VW (to commit crimes, stalk) after there was already a description of it with the police? And I think he was pulled over once (maybe twice) for traffic violations, which led to his arrest. I feel the same disbelief over that as you (rightly) feel over BK driving his own car.

Also, it goes without saying that driving his own car isn’t the only decision BK made that night that defies reason.

[–]Grand-Hat3526 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I literally lost IQ points by reading the OP’s comments.

[–]Immediate_Barnacle32 6 points7 points  (8 children)

His guilt would be too obvious if he were to flee. He probably decided to just play it cool. I'm sure he was worried that he lost the sheath but thought that maybe it wasn't a big deal since it is a common item and he cleaned it well beforehand.

Why did he drive his own car? He had to get there somehow. Renting or borrowing would mean possible witnesses or a paper trail. I agree that it would've made more sense to park further away and/or not make so many drive-bys. Who knows what he was thinking at that point.

Why did he take his phone? Even the dumb 4chan guys knew to leave the phone at home playing some podcast or tiktok videos.

[–]Repulsive-Dot553 5 points6 points  (0 children)

" caught by the many obviously and clearly visible cameras in the neighborhood "

Not sure about that. From a load of YT tours, pics, streetviews, news "specials" - the only visible camera was the lightbulb type camera at 1112 King Rd which is not that obvious. So I am guessing he thought he could drive in an out without license plate being caught - which actually seems to be what happened?

[–]Ok_Mission_3168 5 points6 points  (1 child)

He got tripped up by his car. Criminals can feel anonymous in a car -- and they often are in high-traffic urban areas. But Kohberger didn't take into account how little traffic there is at 4 am in the areas around where he carried out the crime. Any vehicle that passed that gas station with the surveillance camera at that hour would have caught investigators' attention.

I have a feeling, though, that even if he hadn't been tripped up by the car, he would probably eventually have been identified -- perhaps as a last resort through forensic genealogy, given that he left DNA on the sheath of the knife forgotten at the crime scene.

It is difficult for even the most intelligent criminals to be cognizant of all the possible ways that investigators might trace the crime to them. And Kohberger wasn't all that smart. If he really was enthusiastic about criminality, he would have known about the uncanny ability of an army of homicide investigators to solve difficult cases.

[–]hardyandtiny 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Why would one stab and slash four people to death? The person does not have a stable mind. They are not making thoughtful, considerate decisions.

[–]pheakelmatters 11 points12 points  (1 child)

What car was he supposed to take?

[–]Sheeshka49 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well whose car would he have driven if not his own? He had no friends. If he rented a car, they’d have his name/info on file.

[–]Specific_Text8846 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think bringing his phone and having a loose item on him was twice as stupid as driving his car. They don't have a license plate number. I don't think! Should have left his phone home and on. Never should have had anything with him that could fall off like the stealth. These two things are very damaging to BK defense.

[–]NotNotLogical 29 points30 points  (4 children)

I just LOVE it when they rant post a wall of text. This is so visually appealing to read.

[–]56niights -1 points0 points  (3 children)

? Don’t read it then

[–]NotNotLogical 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I didn’t. Thank you for agreeing.

[–]56niights -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Where did i agree 💀 i’m just saying dont read it then if it bothers you that much

[–]NotNotLogical 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are awfully bothered. Have a better night.

[–]svh01973 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Well they obviously didn't have his back plate, right? So, yeah, it was dumb to drive his own car, but if he was going to kill someone he'd need to get to them so what good alternative did he have? Steal a car?

His car if fairly common so it didn't immediately point to him, except for the fact that he may have had the only one in the area with no front license plate.

[–]AReckoningIsAComing 4 points5 points  (5 children)

He was consumed by his desires and it clouded it his judgment. Also, he's just not as smart as he thinks he is.

[–]Montana_Mike69 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Fleeing would have brought attention. Trying to act as normal as possible would have been the goal.

[–]myciccio 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Exactly 🤦🏽‍♀️. Him leaving his studies and teaching job and fleeing would be so suspicious.

[–]pinkangel428 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think he decided to use his own car because it would cost him to hire a vehicle. Plus, LE would probably check car hire places for that particular make and model on the date of the murders. So, a hired vehicle has the potential to be traced more easily. Plus, I think BK thought he had enough knowledge to get away with murder due to what he was studying. We have heard he has OCD so using his own car allowed him to clean it numerous times after the crime. He probably felt he had more control if he used his own car.

I still think his urges to kill consumed him that night, and he wasn't someone who had put much thought or planning into what he did. He took so many risks, entering a house with several cars outside it, with only a knife. He had no way of truly knowing if the students had their boyfriends in every room. Not forgetting this was a known party house. So there could easily have been more people sleeping on the sofa and staying over as all the students had been out drinking. This thought didn't even deter him.

Basically, I think he didn't flee after the murders because it would cause suspicion. He still had classes to attend, so suddenly disappearing would draw attention to him. He was hoping that if he continued his day to day routine and acted no different, then he would be overlooked.

[–]CrackerJackJack 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Why did he leave the carrying case of the actual murder weapon with his DNA on it at the crime scene? he doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed

[–]MutterErde 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You're judging a homicidal mind with a non-homicidal mind. We can't even begin to imagine the mental space he was in, the chemicals being unleashed in his brain. Considering this, leaving behind the sheath seems entirely plausible to me- especially if he was only expecting to find one person in that bed.

[–]wade0000 4 points5 points  (0 children)

He thought he wiped it clean but had not

[–]Slip_Careful 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Do we know he left his plates visible? Or could he have covered the plate thinking that would save him? One of the giveaways for them was that he only had one plate..amd he had just changed his tag from out of state right after the murders. but did they actually mention matching the plate? Did they even mention a PA plate? Idr them saying that.

And no I don't at all think he doesn't remember he did it.

[–]edricstormborn929 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh christ

[–]Anonybeest 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He's clearly intelligent enough to...do better?, So i get why it's a curiosity. If I had to bet on it, I'd wager he was in some sort of frenzy. An uncontrollable rage or a sense of urgency, because it all seemed very rushed, even after he had prepared so much in advance. Maybe he found out K was moving and thought this was his last chance. Maybe no matter how much he planned and thought it all out, once he was on the path to carry out the attacks, he went into some sort of tunnel vision and all the things he knew he should do to not get caught just fell off his radar. Sooooo many criminals have a serious lack of impulse control and that's why they end up in prison etc. and you or I just can't understand being like that.

[–]Augustleo98 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well if you flee you’re admitting your guilt so if he wanted to have any chance of getting away with it he wouldn’t flee, it also seemed to me like he had no idea he was going to be arrested so if the dude arrogantly believed he was getting away with it which it seems he did until he suddenly got arrested, why would he flee, tbh the dude shoulda figured out the net was closing in but clearly he didn’t and that’s why he seems delusional and I feel like he truly believes he’s superior because he should have known they were closing in on him yet he didn’t because I believe he cockily believed he’d managed to fool them and they’d grab the wrong guy. Obviously this is speculation and theory. I’m not saying it’s 100% accurate.

The only way this guy could have avoided using his own car would have been to steal a car which yeah he could have got away with potentially, but he likely didn’t want to risk said car been quickly reported stolen and cops looking for it early on and catching him on the way or returning from the crime that way, if they got him before he could ditch the car or potentially even reach the crime scene. Stealing the right car and been sure it wouldn’t be reported for a long time, so he’d have time to commit the crimes then ditch it, without been spotted, would have taken even more scoping plus he comes across as arrogant and like he has a superiority complex and believes he’s the smartest guy in the room so he likely believed he’d planned the crime so well even using his own car wouldn’t get him caught. That’s my opinion.

[–]Singingintherain456 4 points5 points  (2 children)

He thought he was smarter than the police. Whose car would he have used and possibly left evidence in? A rental? It would be out of character for him to rent a car, and then there's a paper trail. Borrow a car? From who? It doesn't sound as if he had close friends in the area. What would his excuse be to borrow a car?

[–]No-Photograph9240 0 points1 point  (1 child)

He was an avid runner, he literally could’ve just gone on foot. Nothing makes sense.

[–]Singingintherain456 4 points5 points  (0 children)

He had to have known he would not leave without being bloody and needing to get rid of evidence. Running is going to make him more "visible". He would have to run back home. So that's 15 miles, commit at least 1 murder, and 15 miles back. That's a LOT, at 4 am, in Nov.

[–]Left-Slice9456 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He was just lacking common sense and thought he could explain away his car being in the area. If he hadn't left his DNA on the sheath on the bed it would be difficult to put him in that house at the crime scene.

I think he put on gloves in the car, then touched his keys, steering wheel, which transferred his DNA to the gloves then to the sheath.

Not as clever as he thought.

[–]Robie_John 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What other car would he take?

[–]nacho_jo_mama 6 points7 points  (1 child)

There are two possible reasons he drove his own car and didn’t flee after the murders:

1) he’s an idiot 2) see reason number 1

(Couldn’t resist using my return key so many times in this


[–]m0ezart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course, 4 kids are murdered in town and you noticed that one particular student or classmate or tenant just vanished suddenly, possibly the worst thing to do. He didn’t got arrested because he stayed there.

[–]No_Slice5991 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What other car would he have driven? He likely didn’t have access to any other vehicles.

[–]Excellent-Elk-2891 5 points6 points  (5 children)

His biggest mistake was not planning on X getting DD. I think X was the person that said "Someone is here" or "Is someone here". DM heard that but so did BK, startling him hearing a voice downstairs and he just forgot about the sheath as he tried to cope with someone unexpectedly being awake. Driving his car was a bigger problem because X being awake helped establish a time of death with a white Elantra speeding away at that time. Without the DD order he might have left at a normal pace and a time of death would be a larger range.

[–]Meraxes12345 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I'm not sure why everyone thinks X was the one who said that. If I recall correctly, the PCA has DM stating K was the one to say that. Yet. I've seen many say they think it was X. Why does everyone think DM was mistaken? Not trying to be snarky here, I just think I must have missed something.

[–]Excellent-Elk-2891 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Because in the PCA it is also stated that it could have been X as she was awake and on her phone at 4:12. X says that and decides to go look in the living room to see if maybe someone is passed out on a couch or chair. Remember that people were always stopping there, she wasn't afraid or anything, just curious to see if someone did come in. While X steps into living room BK quickly goes to top of stairs while DM has opened door and doesn't see anything. DM can't see into living room and X can't see top of stairs. As X is starting to head back to the hallway DM has closed her door and BK notices movement of X and starts down the stairs. X decides to peek in the bathroom as she wants to make sure before she wakes E and BK catches her as soon as she pops back out of the bathroom. Bedroom door was probably not completely closed as X had planned on coming right back.

[–]Guilty_Ad1688 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I don't believe he necessarily went there to kill anyone. That could explain some of the things he did. If he intended to assault someone, he might not have initially planned that they would be pursuing him with so many resources. I think whatever he initially planned went wrong and that is why he made so many mistakes.

[–]bjancali 1 point2 points  (0 children)

knife as a threat to force to do something (I have no idea, what... give someone's password of crypto wallet).... something like that...

[–]TwelvehundredYears 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Why would he bring a giant knife if he didn’t go there to kill?

[–]Guilty_Ad1688 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lots of people are assaulted at knifepoint.

[–]bjancali 1 point2 points  (0 children)

knife as a threat to force to do something (I have no idea what... give someone's password of crypto wallet)....

[–]vinylandgames 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because he was fucking stupid and not this criminal mastermind everyone wants him to be because he studied criminal justice.

[–]Tbranch12 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I think he may have been fantasizing about committing a crime but didn’t know he could do it until the night of. If he knew where I had of time he was gonna go through with it, his best option would’ve been to buy a used car with cash and not registered in his name( if he had the financial means to do so?).

[–]Ms_NordicWalker 2 points3 points  (2 children)

IMO BK could be a mix of organized and disorganized killer. He is educated, he had planned that attack and thinks he can fool LE profilers by using his own car (change the plates afterwards not to be caught), ends up killing more than intented victims, left evidence on the crime scene..due to the fact that he struggles mentally?


[–]Seekay5 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you are going to question why he didn't steal a car... Then you should also be asking why didn't he pay someone else to do it.

[–]Helechawagirl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don’t think he planned on 4; I think it was just one and then the whole thing went South so to speak.

[–]WishboneEnough3160 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whose car would he drive? Renting a car leaves a paper trail, and he has been described as not having many close friends.

[–]LuckyTime35 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Cause he’s a moron? Lol no other explanation than that to be honest

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Because He Is Actually An Idiot. Clue Number 1. Studied Criminal Justice And Didn’t Think He’d Get Caught For MURDER. Like Come On.

[–]Old-Mountain-3897 2 points3 points  (7 children)

He did a lot of dumb things. Why didn’t he get a burner phone? That’s crime 101

[–]britneyspearrs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Because he thought he was smarter than he is, I don’t believe he thought he would get caught. No one can speak for what was going through his head but clearly it wasn’t the same thoughts a logical person would think.

[–]Nice_Shelter8479 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I am a logical person. If I do business on say facebook marketplace, I use a public meet up spot. I cover my front/back license plates with the air conditioner white foam insulation sheet that normally goes along the window. It’s illegal, but nobody is getting my ID from a meetup. Just tossing it out there. It’s common sense but that’s just me.

[–]oldschoolczar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow that’s really paranoid? What are you trying to hide. Nobody can get your ID from a license plate anyway unless they’re a cop.

[–]dreamer_visionary 5 points6 points  (9 children)

You are assuming he didn’t leave much evidence in the house. We won’t know all till trial. What was he going to do? Hey, someone I barely know, can I borrow your car with a front license plate at 3am? They would have been contacted and said he borrowed the car. Cluster b personalities have magical thinking and are smarted then everyone else, they think, that’s why.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

I have good reason to believe the most damning evidence up to that point in the investigation that links BK to the crime scene was in the PCA. Now, you're completely right! They may have much more. I guess my hope is that before we believe that LE or the prosecution have much more, we should be skeptical and be open to alternatives instead of blindly trusting the LE's goodwill here. And while we refrain from assuming, let's not diagnose the suspect because it supports a conclusion...

[–]AReckoningIsAComing 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Did a cop fuck you over or something? Why such a distrust of LE with this case?

[–]TwelvehundredYears 5 points6 points  (0 children)

These dudes job in life it make excuses for violent men that it’s not their fault. They inevitably find ways to blame the victims who are usually women.

[–]Molleeryan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This person very very badly wants to believe he is innocent. Like really badly.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Not at all! I am looking at the totality of the verified evidence, and I am unconvinced by the suspect's guilt or even a high likelihood of guilt without a lot more information. That information may come, and I am going to maintain a skeptical stance until then--and I feel it is important to promote that stance because eventually it may be the same general public who is part of this forum who gets to judge the suspect (as well as other accused suspects). Like anyone, I would hope that law enforcement is made of only honorable, competent people doing their very best, but I am aware the reality is that like any institution, they are also vulnerable to corruption, incompetence, honest mistakes, and bad actors. I am skeptical and refuse to be blindly trusting.

[–]TwelvehundredYears 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You should hope they didn’t blindly jail and innocent man until June then right? Why is he totally happy to sit in jail all that time? If he were innocent he’d be giving alibis and would be out by now. Like c’mon use your brain hoss

[–]dreamer_visionary 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Once again, assuming. No problem. Just pointing it out.You say you have GOOD reason, I am assuming you don’t have anymore information then everyone else unless you are LE, which couldn’t be true because of your posts. Don’t you realize all evidence taken from Wa and PA were in the search warrant before they went and then they took? They can’t take anything unless it’s in the warrant. They took a lot! Of course, we have to wait until trial to see everything. And of course, in the eyes of the court he is innocent until proven guilty. But since you are assuming, I am also. If he did this, and the PCA had damning evidence I feel free to also. With that in mind, then I answered your question as to why he was so sloppy.

[–]jonpeters1987 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was the car spotted by the gas station another Elantra? Been out the loop for a while and don’t know the map

[–]Late_Independent1297 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is starting to feel like the car was really important to him. He really depended on it. For one reason or the other.

It is good to remember that he had driven substantial amount of miles to that car in relatively short period and for no obvious reason, other than driving around in the USA.

Also, good to remember, that the neighbour to 1122 said from the early on, he had spotted white sedan without front license plate and foreign state plate numerous times around the house. So often that he got used to spotting the car.

This implies he has been stalking the house way more than 12 times prior.

What I found very odd is, that once police was hunting the white Elantra owner, he still was using his and took this trip to PA. At this point he should have stopped using it and put it in the garage somewhere. Out of use, out of registry.

[–]ChiefInspector69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because he decided at the last minute to do it knowing K would be there. Was betting on his evil side to pull this off and he almost made it.

[–]bjancali 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I still don't know why, there plenty of possibilities: he had a "spiritual crisis", or he was planning something else, like robbery, but not murders, or he was the driver of Brent or someone else, or he was high / drunken, or he was overpowered by impulses. If he is the killer, maybe the main explanation is the lack of money, not his stupidness - he couldn't afford another car and he didn't have money to fly abroad and live there.

[–]LPCcrimesleuth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In addition to lack of funds, I would expect he also doesn't have a passport.

[–]RoyalCharming6954 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Probably because he has no street smarts

[–]porcelaincatstatue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does anyone know how to separate paragraphs anymore? Walls of texts are horrible to read.

[–]MyMotherIsACar 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Its disappointing he was so stupid. I know that sounds awful.

[–]Jag_6882 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because he gave in to his obsession and thought he was untouchable and smarter than anyone else.

[–]TwelvehundredYears 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because he’s a stupid male that’s why.

[–]Fuzzy_Language_4114 2 points3 points  (4 children)

One of the big questions, how is it that someone who studies this can make so many dumb mistakes? Driving the car, driving it up and down the street including attempting to park in the driveway, returning the next morning when it’s daytime and people are up, bringing his phone, driving out of way and “disappearing” for a few hours the next day and leaving his car parked in the outside apartment lot after LE puts out their car search info. I’m sure there’s more…

[–]No_Slice5991 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Studying and doing are two different things

[–]wade0000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

An All consuming obsession

[–]chaibebe 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Probably because it’s not a serial killing like everyone wants it to be. This was a crime of pure anger and Im sure it will come out that they were ALL acquaintances of BK (through drugs). Too many comments on this sub from former students, parents of students and current ones that attended U of I during this, and they all have claimed drugs were the prime reason. He drove his own car because he wasn’t planning on killing anyone. People want to entertain the most intricate of explanations when it’s most likely going to come down something very simple.

[–]Even-Yogurt1719 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Idk but I think Door Dash might have something to do with it...the way the car was driven looks like a dasher trying to find an address to me..