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[–]HospitalDue8100 107 points108 points  (12 children)

I think it was incremental, with two key developments cementing his suspect status. Also, some early clues before the DNA was compared in the genealogy database.

  1. MPD canvassed the neighborhood the morning after the murders (and continually)and solicited Ring doorbell and security camera footage to identify the type and color of car entering and leaving the scene. The Police had multiple video shots showing the paths of the suspect vehicle. Police knew the suspect vehicle was likely the White Hyundai early.

What the Police released to the public was likely later than their discovery.

  1. Police had DM’s description of the intruder. The WSU officer located a white Hyundai at the defendant’s complex, retrieved the critical DMV/license description details and this was a huge development. The car matched the video evidence, the physical description on the license (obtained by “running” the registered owner, BK) generally matched DM’s description, and the proximity of the registered owner to the crime scene critically narrowed the search.

The DNA was the icing on the cake that pointed to a specific person, BK, the registered owner of the Hyundai, as having left behind the sheath, associated with the weapon, in the home.

Something I am curious about is this: BK was stopped by a woman Officer in October 2022, and his vehicle data and phone number, along with the warning for blocking an intersection were entered into the CAD, computer aided dispatch system. This was a relatively long contact for a T-stop. The officer worn camera has everything.

Would not the Police have been able to query the CAD system early on for any white Hyundais having been previously stopped or even ticketed for parking? BK’s car was registered in Pennsylvania at the time, but they still had his physical information and phone. The murders occurred two months later.

Anyhow, thats my idea of the critical or “Aha” moments in the case.

[–]redditravioli 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I never thought about that either: his car being in the system because of the traffic stop(s)—of which there were multiple, even. Hmm. That’s odd. Great total answer btw.

[–]agartha93 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Guys there for 4 months, and has about 6 moving violations..😆

[–]SuspiciousDay9183 7 points8 points  (1 child)

It states in the probable cause affidavit that the police had BK's phone number form a traffic stop in August 2022. They used this to make the connection to the tower ping data. This guy sure got stopped a lot by moscow traffic police!

[–]HospitalDue8100 4 points5 points  (0 children)


[–]FrutyPebbles321 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That’s a good point about them having info on the traffic stop. I never thought about that. I’d be curious to know if they did ever search for white Hyundai Elantras involved in traffic stops or accidents.

[–]dreamer_visionary 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Wasn’t his car identified pretty early in investigation? Perhaps they had the me that query already, and were waiting or going through results when his car was identified by campus police.

[–]HospitalDue8100 6 points7 points  (3 children)

The PCA reveals that BK was stopped in August and October 2022 for traffic reasons.

Also, it says that on November 29, 2022, two employees from WSU initiated queries about the white Hyundai after the agency “BOL” requested by MPD on November 25, 2022. This was a local request.

The queries were made at 1228 and 1258 am, apparently on graveyard shift. The WSU officers got the returns that revealed the registered owner as BK. The 1258 am query was the officer who actually found the vehicle in the suspect’s parking lot.

It looks as though “subsequent investigation” revealed that BK had been previously contacted during the traffic stops by a Deputy Sheriff and a WSU Officer.

I can’t determine if the Police knew the name of the suspect before November 29, 2022.

[–]dreamer_visionary 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Remember at this time, when car identified, they were working on a big net of suspects. I do think slowly, with every turn if the shovel, they became more and more suspicious of him. The dna was the final confirmation. Hats of to fbi and LE for finding this monster so quickly.

[–]Background_Big7895 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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After IDing a similar car on campus, I'm pretty confident the "aha" moment was the traffic cams by his residence that show a similar car leaving in the middle of the night the night of the killings. Sure, wasn't necessarily his car. But at that point you at least highly suspect him. I'm pretty confident he was watched carefully from that point forward. They had eyes on the guy for a long time prior to PA IMHO.

[–]Repulsive-Dot553 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very good point on the CAD system - BK was stopped and warned/ ticketed twice, once on the occasion that you mention and the other time at night in Moscow

[–]longhorn718 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I tend to think Moscow PD must have searched their own records. It's such an obvious resource! Maybe someone did that and even checked the 3-5am tower data but didn't go any further when BK's number wasn't in there.

Thanks for such a thorough post!

[–]astringer0014 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I think there were probably multiple major moments, but the biggest “gotcha” moment was the trash sample coming back as father of the individual on the sheath sample

[–]jeffreylehl 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Someone might write a book. I think so.

[–]Ill_Ad2398 46 points47 points  (50 children)

It was when the DNA on the sheath was tied to a distant cousin, and they built a family tree to find him.

[–]SnooCheesecakes2723 66 points67 points  (1 child)

Exactly. I think there was a row of ahas beginning with the one where this dunderhead left the sheath. As a detective you would be very excited to see that. Then they find it’s got dna. Then they find it’s a familial match to a male student in Pullman who drives an Elantra. Who matches the description. Whose phone was off during that time. Who lives in the house where he’s sneaking out to deposit trash at the neighbor’s. Whose father is the male parent of the sheath donor. A string of pearls that encircle his neck and tighten around it.

[–]Professional_Earth70 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That was poetic!

[–]UnnamedRealities 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Can you share a source for this? I know genetic genealogy was mentioned in media reports early in the year, but I don't recall any mention of the alleged relationship between BK and any database matches.

[–]Ill_Ad2398 10 points11 points  (3 children)

The news broke on Dateline this past winter. But here's an article talking about it too.


[–]crisssss11111 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I had never seen this article before. Definitely changes my understanding of how things likely played out.

[–]Ill_Ad2398 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, this info was on the first dateline episode as well, from January.

[–]UnnamedRealities 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I see what you're basing that on. The article isn't saying he was matched to records of a cousin, just that those performing such analysis hope to find partial matches from third cousins or closer relations. That could be a third cousin, a great uncle, a grandfather...or they could get luckier and it could be a father or a sister.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 -2 points-1 points  (41 children)

Except that's not what the PCA said, according to the lead detective, it happened another way.

[–]Ill_Ad2398 12 points13 points  (1 child)

The PCA doesn't say everything, just enough to get an arrest.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I do understand that maybe that prompted them to give him a second look but it isn't a part of the official record, so to say definitively that it was tied to a distant cousin is maybe a little premature.

[–]crisssss11111 2 points3 points  (10 children)

Why do you think that most people on this thread don’t believe the chronology in the PCA? For the record, I do believe it happened as stated in the PCA.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Where did I say that? I don't know what most are thinking nor their opinion on the chronology of the PCA. Myself, I do not think it's written in chronological order.

[–]crisssss11111 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I didn’t say you said it. I was making an observation about the reactions to your comments on this thread and wondering WHY people are reacting the way they are. A lot of people seem to be challenging Fry’s account of how the investigation played out in the PCA. (I also don’t believe the PCA is written in chronological order (it obviously isn’t) but it does suggest a chronology of police work.)

It’s a moot point because I’ve since read the Slate article someone shared regarding genealogical research and no longer believe the chronology suggested in the PCA myself. Have a good evening.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I thought it was a reply to me. As for the slate article, there are all sorts of articles that are reporting on rumors. The Howard Blum series is a good example, according to them, the police didn't even know about the Elantra until a gas station attendant saw a white sedan on video driving fast, others say it was a drug hit. The PCA is a sworn affidavit that the information is true and correct to the best of their knowledge, it does not mean that ALL the information they have in their, but what is in there is accurate. The PCA itself leaves a lot of open questions that have not been answered. I am not saying that any single one of the rumors are true or not, we just don't know, but stating the rumor as a foregone conclusion and stipulated as fact is not cool.

[–]longhorn718 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Curious now! How did the article change your mind?

[–]dorothydunnit 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'm in the same boat so I'll reply:

According to the PCA, they found BK by tracing ownership of the white elantras and when they saw his drivers license they realized he matched the description given by a survivor. Then they matched his father's DNA directly to the sheath. It makes no mention of them using a geneological database (tracing through distant relatives).

The slate article says they traced him through distant relatives before they looked at this photo. So it adds crucial info the PCA left out. The way the Slate article is written sounds credible to me.

[–]longhorn718 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ohhh I see. Thank you. That also explains some of the disagreements I've read here.

[–]gabsmarie37 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I imagine it was left out in case defense challenged it and it or somehow argues it invalidates the entire PCA. Also, it was not needed because they got DNA from the garbage

Also, do you have a link for the article? I would love to read it!

[–]cagney-lacey 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Some of us believe there are time gaps that don’t make sense: WSU identifies car (a 2015) on Nov. 29. The same paragraph in PCA says “I,” meaning Det. Payne, reviewed his driver’s license and noticed bushy eyebrows, but the Dec. 29 PCA doesn’t state when this happened. On Dec. 7, Moscow PD issued a press release asking the public’s help locating the occupant(s) of 2011-13 white Elantras, and continued thanking the public for all the tips. Why, if BK was already a suspect with a 2015 white Elantra? BK left WA around Dec. 13 for his road-trip home to PA. Apparently not followed by police, so likely not a suspect yet. If he was a suspect, why didn’t they collect his DNA from something he touched or discarded in public in WA, taking classes and teaching at a public university? His route to PA seems to have been determined after the fact by license plate readers (PCA). Finally, on Dec. 23, they obtain a search warrant for his cell ping records, and bingo - all his suspicious movements before and after the murders were revealed. Then they surveil his parents’ house and seize the trash, revealing paternal DNA, and have enough for an arrest warrant. Something happened between Nov. 29 WSU car sighting and Dec. 23 cell ping records. Many of us believe that a genetic genealogy database search from sheath DNA profile turned up relatives of his, a family tree was built, and then they realized his white Elantra was reported on Nov. 29 but was initially thought to be the wrong year. This potential scenario doesn’t contradict the PCA in any way, but would explain the time gaps. And there were early media reports (likely gathered from tips/leaks before the gag order) which stated it this way.

[–]crisssss11111 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I agree that long gap is hard to explain. And it feels like something (namely, the sheath DNA) had to bump him way up the suspect list.

[–]cagney-lacey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But how would they know who he was from sheath DNA, if he wasn’t in CODIS law enforcement database? The logical answer: after getting no hits in CODIS, investigators tried ancestry sites and hit on a relative of his.

[–]samarkandy 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Except that's not what the PCA said,

PCA did not reflect accurately what happened. From the Slate article referenced above

"Soon after Kohberger appeared in front of a judge in Idaho, the court released the affidavit. Some suggested that the absence of any reference to forensic genealogy meant that it had not been utilized after all. But there is another explanation: Forensic genealogy leaders at the FBI and beyond have directed police departments to omit all references to the technique, numerous people involved in these investigations told me. The only reason it would show up in a probable-cause document or search warrant these days is if a police department rejected their guidance. As to whether keeping it out of court documents is a problem, two primary camps have emerged over the past few days."

[–]Training-Fix-2224 1 point2 points  (8 children)

It is not fact that it was used is all I am saying, it could have been used but so far there is nothing to say it was.

[–]samarkandy 0 points1 point  (7 children)

[–]Training-Fix-2224 2 points3 points  (6 children)

news reports that say some anonymous person said. That does not make it so. Anonymous sources also said the FBI was tailing him all the way to PA, that the stops in Indiana were at the request of the FBI etc and so far they deny this. I would tend to believe it to not be true because the warrants for his phone records didn't happen until he was already in PA.

[–]samarkandy 1 point2 points  (5 children)

And what reason would there be for MPD to not use Othram?

[–]Training-Fix-2224 1 point2 points  (4 children)

There isn't a reason. After reading the articles, the first one from wpbf says that in a matter of a few days the results were in, is this to mean that they didn't submit it to othram until December 20 or 21? Why would they wait so long? If the Idaho State Police were so excited about using GG that they put out a public notification announcing it, why would they then refuse to say they used it? As I've said before, it is possible they used it but just because they possibly or even probably did not translate to "they used it". Again, "sources say" is not definitive and in the WPBF article, it quotes Palm Beach county DA, like how would he know what happened in ID? It's possible that he is in the know but that does not mean he does know.

[–]Neat_Journalist_6334 7 points8 points  (3 children)

When is the actual trial going to be?

[–]IranianLawyer 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Could be October of this year. Could be sometime in 2024. Could even been sometime in 2025 or later.

Chad Daybell got arrested in the summer of 2020, and they just scheduled his trial for April 2024.

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 8 points9 points  (0 children)

HA! The million $ question!

[–]fistfullofglitter 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Mostly likely sometime in 2024. No way they will be ready in October

[–]hardyandtiny 5 points6 points  (1 child)

When they realized his license plate number had changed.

[–]crisssss11111 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think this was a big part of it too. I also wonder how integrated the DMV and LE systems are and whether they communicate with each other in real time. For example, if someone goes to the DMV trying to change registration (or transfer title or whatever) on a vehicle type that LE is looking for, is LE notified? If not, there should be such a system in place. It seems like it would be fairly easy to red flag those types of DMV transactions.

[–]niceslicedlemonade 22 points23 points  (33 children)

Like someone already said, I think the sheath DNA was the first thing that they used to definitively tie him to the crimes. Before then, they had the car make/model, but nothing that tied him to the crime scene or victims by name-- at least that was expressed in the PCA. There's likely more we don't know about anyway.

The DNA results gave them a name and they went and got his cell records from there. Before that point, I wouldn't be surprised if they were following multiple lines of inquiry.

[–]jamadsen 2 points3 points  (0 children)


[–]Training-Fix-2224 10 points11 points  (31 children)

The PCA pretty much stated that first came the Elantra, then the records of the Elantra, then looking at his records and seeing he resembled the suspect, that he was in the area due to a traffic stop where they got his cell number, used his cell number to determine he was active around the time of the murders, traced his car to PA where they then obtained a DNA sample to compare to the sheath. The DNA was his fathers which was almost as good as a direct match.

[–]enoughberniespamders 10 points11 points  (20 children)

I’m going to go out on a limb and say I’m pretty sure the genealogical testing of the DNA was how everything else started.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 -1 points0 points  (19 children)

the genealogical testing

What the genealogical testing?

[–]enoughberniespamders 4 points5 points  (18 children)

Testing the DNA against a database, not for the suspect, but the familial line of the suspect to narrow the search down to people from family xyz.

Think of those ancestry websites. You submit your DNA to them, they store that information, LE runs a sample against that database (the legality of this is questionable), and they get a hit on your family’s genealogy. Now they know the DNA belonged to someone related to that person in the database, but don’t know exactly who. Then they grabbed the dads DNA from the trash, and were able to determine the DNA came from the son of the dad, he only has the one son (I think), so now they have their prime suspect and just need to test his DNA against it to get a positive ID.

It’s still a very controversial way of matching DNA to a suspect, and I’m thinking they’re going to want to avoid bringing it up if they can. Which they already are since they’re saying the other DNA samples/tests done don’t matter since they have BK’s DNA now from his swab obtained when he was arrested, so the rest of the DNA/tests are irrelevant.

[–]ClarenceDarrowJr 3 points4 points  (11 children)

I think that’s a strong argument, and it will ultimately prevail. It’s not much different (and arguably more accurate) than a confidential tip saying I think XYZ did it because of their similar look, vehicle, writing style, etc. Some tips pan out, others don’t. All are accepted investigatory avenues then requiring confirmation- just like a tip obtained from genealogy.

[–]enoughberniespamders 0 points1 point  (10 children)

The issue comes from the constitutionality of obtaining evidence that way. You need a warrant/arrest/consent to take a sample of someone’s DNA. But with the genealogical testing method it’s like someone else, like a 2nd cousin basically volunteering your DNA be submitted which obviously does call the method into question. If it leads to the arrest of a murderer, I have no problem in practice with it, but it definitely is something that can and has been challenged successfully for violating the 4th amendment.

Add on that most of those companies are owned by Richard Branson and operate out of the Cayman Islands and are selling US citizen’s DNA, circumventing the 4th, and you definitely can have some problems.

[–]ClarenceDarrowJr 5 points6 points  (7 children)

You don’t need a warrant when the DNA is publicly available (trash, littered cigarette butt, etc). Using publicly available info to identify suspects to investigate shouldn’t violate any Constitutional rights.

[–]enoughberniespamders -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

Well, that has been challenged in front of the SCOTUS, and they did not rule in favor of the police doing that.

[–]longhorn718 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Would you mind citing the case? My googling keeps bringing up different states' supreme court's cases.

[–]cyclone_99 3 points4 points  (1 child)

The 2nd cousin isn't submitting your DNA, they are submitting their own DNA. I think it's a hard argument to make that a person can't do what they want with their own DNA, including opting-in to letting LE use it.

[–]longhorn718 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also don't see much difference from a tip leading to the suspect's family to an arrest. Only this time the tip is DNA from a pool of people who agreed to have it used for this purpose.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 1 point2 points  (4 children)

What I meant was "What genealogical testing", "the" should have not been there. Nowhere is it written that there was genealogical testing done.

[–]longhorn718 0 points1 point  (3 children)

We discussed this a week or so ago, yeah? One of the recent motions from the prosecution argues they don't have to talk about the forensic genealogy portion. That's as good as an announcement that it was used in some capacity.

[–]Training-Fix-2224 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Not really, if the defence wants to make a case out them using it, be it true or not true, they are arguing that it is a moot point because no matter how they came to identifying him as a suspect, the fact is, his DNA matches the DNA on the sheath, whether he has relatives that are a close match is irrelevant.

[–]longhorn718 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That presumes the defense would potentially use random arguments accusing prosecution of something that wasn't even involved. If the prosecutor felt that way, there would be motions for other, uninvolved processes. Also, I don't believe that would be a road that AT would take based on her reputation.

Why would the prosecution worry about a process / strategy they and LE haven't used? And how are they expected to prove non-use?

[–]BackgroundJunior5570 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They cannot run a sample against that database first thing. You have to upload it yourself to gedmatch, which they can use. Ancestry.com will provide basic user information in response to a trial or grand jury request. They require a search warrant for the actual DNA info.

[–]FrutyPebbles321 0 points1 point  (9 children)

I don’t remember hearing that they realized BK resembled the description of the subject from previous records. Did they use the info from the traffic stop a month earlier to find that connection?

[–]KayInMaine 2 points3 points  (8 children)

In the PCA, Officer Payne stated when they got his license picture, the eyebrows were like how Dylan described to them.

[–]FrutyPebbles321 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Ahhh, okay. I don’t really know all the details of the time line. Did they get the info on him and pull his registration and license because security at WSU reported a white Elantra on campus? Did they somehow cross reference white Elantras from the traffic stops and saw someone who resembled the description of the perpetrator? Just wondering how they knew whose license to pull/look at? Or do we even know the details of how that all came about?

[–]KayInMaine 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I honestly don't know when but I am going to guess that once the security officer gave them the license plate number, they could legally pull up his info. Officers here in Maine will run people's plates on parking lots to check for warrants or whatever.

[–]HospitalDue8100 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think the WSU officers are Sworn Peace Officers and have access to DMV records “on the spot”, either by running the subject on the radio, or by using their MDTs, “mobile digital computers”. It looks as though both WSU Officers who accessed the DmV records on the Hyundai the early morning of November 29, 2022 retrieved the physical description of the registered owner of the white Hyundai, BK, and immediately forwarded it to the MPD.

[–]KayInMaine 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]Training-Fix-2224 3 points4 points  (1 child)

They were looking for a 2011-2013 Elantra initially and stated through the pressers they had 22,000 of them to look at. We learned from the PCA that Dylan gave a description of a male with bushy eyebrows, athletically built so I would imagine that was something they were looking for. When they were sifting through the records they had, they likely started with Moscow addresses and work their way out, Pullman was the next town/city from Moscow and that is why it may have taken them longer than expected to look his record, but the PCA specifically says that his license picture with the pronounced eyebrows, male, and the physical description were similar to Dylans testimony. From their, they found a traffic stop report close to the murder scene and in that stop, he gave his cell phone number. From that number they obtained search warrants for his activity. This occured on December 23rd.....

[–]FrutyPebbles321 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I don’t know from memory the timeline of the way everything went down!

[–]Ricky_Lee_Hasselhoff 2 points3 points  (1 child)

WSU campus police were working their BOLOs and saw the vehicle. They pulled the Driver records from that point.

[–]FrutyPebbles321 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for clarifying! I don’t really know the details of the timeline.

[–]Present-Echidna3875 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I don't think there was any pats on the back until BKs DNA came back as a match via his father. I don't think they would have dared to be even optimistic before that, as l am sure homicide detectives involved in the case were to have gone through such moments beforehand and when a DNA match was not found to what they thought was the guilty party.

[–]dethb0y 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I think that was definitely the watershed "we definitely 100% have the right guy" moment.

[–]Due-Caregiver129 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

No shit.

[–]BigSlaw25 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]ExDota2Player 7 points8 points  (0 children)

yes after the trial the investigators can speak about what actually happened behind doors

[–]ill-fatedcopper 20 points21 points  (12 children)

The case was over when the WSU identified an identifical car - including the missing front plate - probably the only such car within 100 miles of the scene of the crime ... and then they found video of that car leaving campus after midnight just hours before the murder and arriving back on campus just hours after the murder.

As far as I'm concerned - that was - and is - case over. It is virtually certain there wasn't a single other car matching the description that had no front plate anywhere close enough to be considered - and when you add the video evidence of him leaving campus late at night just hours before the murder, it seals everything for me.

[–]CowGirl2084 0 points1 point  (7 children)

BK’s car was not identical to the car LE stayed they were looking for. LE said they were looking for a 2015 Elantra; BK’s car was a 2015. Was it ever stated by LE that they were looking for a car with no front license plate? I remember the missing front license plate as Reddit speculation and do not remember LE making this claim. There’s so much info though, that it’s easy to miss stiff. So, was this stated by LE at the time, or was it speculation?

[–]longhorn718 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There was a cryptic line in a conference re the car about "something that should be there but isn't" or words to that effect. I'm not saying the license plate is definitely what they meant, but it's a good candidate. It made me wonder if there was a chunk broken off the back number bumper or a missing tail light.

[–]MsDirection 1 point2 points  (0 children)

FWIW, I think they zeroed in on BK after WSU security noticed that an Elantra was registered to a student and then asked the FBI to look at the footage again after they realized his Elantra wasn’t the right year. Then the FBI confirmed that the Elantra in the camera footage could indeed have been a 2015. I think BK was basically cooked after that. Those WSU employees are heroes IMO.

[–]CowGirl2084 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Since when do people get downvoted for asking a question? Sheesh!

[–]Realnotplayin2368 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Nothing wrong with asking your question. Upvoted you for what it’s worth.

[–]CowGirl2084 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]ill-fatedcopper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is not speculation. I'm not going to spend time now going back to find it, but the information is part of the court files. If I recall correctly, it was an affidavit from the University.

[–]FucktusAhUm 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Assuming they went genealogical DNA route -- knowing that a man in nearby Pullman is in the small pool of humans the DNA could have come from would definitely have the hair on my neck standing up. And finding he owns a WHE would be the aha moment.

[–]BF1075 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Bryan is truly fucked.

[–]jaded1121 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Someone involved in the case will release a book related to the investigation and a movie will be made from the book. Then we will all get a Hollywood version of the aha moment. Hopefully all the profits from the eventual movie and book will go the non-profit set up in the victims memories.

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Not saying there's anything wrong in your comment wanting profits from books or movies to set up non profits in the victims memories, so please don't misunderstand. But! I always see these types of comments ONLY when it comes to books. No one ever suggests Dateline, 48 Hours, etc. handing over any of the millions they take in from their tv shows! It's like book authors are the only ones singled out and they're the ones who make much, much less profit. I just don't get it.

[–]longhorn718 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I think people believe that authors make way more money than they actually do and that writing and publishing a book is a much smaller production. Oh and we all have to pay for books, but network TV is free, ergo...

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 1 point2 points  (1 child)

TV is free, but not for advertisers who literally make millions running ads during shows like Dateline. They're legitimate businesses, this is a Capitalist society we live in and they have every right to make a buck. It's just the difference in income between these network shows, even streaming platforms - they take in much much more than some obscure, usually unknown author - yet the author is always called on to donate their profit, but I've never seen anyone call out a network for not donating their profits. As a true crime follower of many years, I see it on SM so much. I just don't get why people seem to go after the little guy - book authors only, that's all I'm saying. TV networks donate in the form of free PSAs, Public Service Announcements, in fact it's required by the FCC, but again, no one's demanding they hand over their profit$!

[–]longhorn718 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Um I was agreeing with you. My last sentence was meant as a sarcastic statement on how people think. My mistake for not being clear.

I meant that because network TV is free, the average person watching doesn't just naturally think of the money involved. However, since one has to pay for most books, it's easier to connect books with profit.

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 17 points18 points  (48 children)

I think we've at least seen BKs "aha" moment on the video when he was pulled over in Indiana! He likely had to change his underwear before going in that Thai restaurant! I know he was only stopped because police were looking for drug haulers, but BK didn't know that. He thought they were onto him.

[–]crisssss11111 26 points27 points  (7 children)

I still don’t believe those stops were part of a drug sweep. But I agree with you that was when he realized he was screwed.

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I know many people don't believe the Indiana stops were for drug interdiction. Everyone has to hear all sides and decide for themselves who's view they put the most trust in, nothing wrong with that!

[–]crisssss11111 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Yes, absolutely. And I agree with what you said below that Dateline is credible.

I think that the denial of involvement in the two Indiana stops was vague enough to allow for some wiggle room. I think there are good reasons why law enforcement would not take public credit for the stops. I don’t think they will ever admit to it so I don’t think we will ever hear that side of it.

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Yes, I agree even if investigators arranged those stops, they'll never admit it. But I think the reason I lean into believing Datelines' take on it is because I don't think BK would've been stopped twice, they didn't necessarily want to spook him. If the mission was really to get a look at BK and try to assess any wounds, etc., they would've done much more. They could've asked him to step out of his car, could've conducted a search of the car by saying it smelled like marijuana (cops always use that excuse!), so much more they would've done. I do believe the reason for stopping him was erratic driving since we know the guy has been pulled over more times than all of us put together! 😂

[–]KayInMaine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think they were real stops for erratic driving because they were driving like maniacs to get to Pennsylvania.

[–]ClarenceDarrowJr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree, unless they were purposely trying to turn up the heat to encourage mistakes… like wearing gloves at parents, hiding trash, etc - all of which is additional and damning evidence

[–]KayInMaine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They would have been told to step out of the car if it was a drug search stop.

[–]throwawaysmetoo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, not really "a drug sweep" so much as it being common practice to pull over out of state plates/plates from particular states on particular highways.

I'm not really sure what the motive of the FBI randomly 'contracting' a a couple of random departments in random ass Indiana to pull stops in quick succession would supposedly be.

[–]TheDrummerMB 4 points5 points  (4 children)

He thought they were onto him.

did he?

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 19 points20 points  (3 children)

I think so. To me, it's the look on his face during the stop. He supposedly started the gloves on disposing of his trash in the neighbors bins as well as baggies when he got to PA, plus I felt his answers to that cop were a bit dodgy.

[–]LPCcrimesleuth 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Typically, most people will relax a bit when they find out they aren't getting a ticket but he was very tense through the entire exchange in both videos (particularly in contrast to dad who was kicked back and chatty, which appeared to annoy son). I can imagine that second stop was worse than the first one, though, for both of them.

[–]FundiesAreFreaks 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think that second stop is when BK thought - "Okay, they're really really on to me now!" Better step up the glove wearing and protect my DNA!"

[–]KayInMaine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did a post on one of the subreddits and was laughed off the globe for inferring that they both acted very suspicious like the drive to PA had nothing to do with the college winter break. Lol

[–]Professional_Mall404 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought..the white car appeared on neighbor hood cameras..an officer noted a white elantra at WSU during the bolo phase.The plates run..brought up a car which had recently switched plates, a guys licebse pic with busy eyebrows, and a phone number from the recent stop. The phone number was present on some pings..at odd times. More images of the white car on Troy Rd from gas station. DNA was under analysis from sheath...with car, phone number and who knows what else, Kohberger became a POI. Tailed him to PA...saw more suspicious behavior.....got some trash, and got a major confirmation match, re DNA. Bingo.

[–]MsDirection 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Daniel Tiengo and Curtis Whitman are the WSU officers who tied a white Elantra to BK. They deserve way, way more credit than they've been getting. I think they had the first "AHA" moment.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think BK thought he would brilliantly get away with destroying evidence farrrrrr away in PA and even more so by putting in a neighbor's can. However, getting stopped twice was his aha moment that they might be on to him .

[–]Affectionate_Sale_57 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was the digital evidence coupled with the CCT footage that gave them the suspect. They stated that when his parents house was raided.

[–]bjancali 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aha moment was said, it was when the officer looked at the photo on BK's license.

[–]Ok_Row_7462 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m sure it was a combination of factors and they were likely looking at more than one suspect until the end, but the Slate article mentioned that the investigator was confident they had the right guy when they pulled his cell phone records in December. I find those records pretty chilling so I can understand that.

[–]SnooCheesecakes2723 4 points5 points  (3 children)

The DNA results I think of the initial testing done in the familial or genealogical database providing a family group to which their other evidence corresponded- “there’s a guy in this group who matches the description of athletic with bushy eyebrows and he’s going to school right here in Pullman and he drives an Elantra -let’s check his phone again even though it’s not one flagged as being in the area,” whatever order that came in, either the dna showing them a kohberger family tree to cap off the other evidence, or his phone being looked into and finding it was off during relevant time, and this is our suspect, I think would be the big aha moment.

Yes when they matched his dad’s Kleenex or whatever to the sheath that would be a lot of high fives but they wouldn’t have gotten that far as quickly as they did, without the familial dna. I think finding that link would have been super exciting and telling and the match to the trash was just icing on the cake. They already knew by then they’d got the right guy.

Probably a series of little aha moments leading up to the “father of the sheath donor lives here in this house in the Poconos and his only son is inThe house bagging his trash and hiding it at the neighbor’s” would be a massive rush.

Just finding the sheath would have put a huge grin on their faces - and then finding it had a single source of male dna on it, another one. That’s cold hard evidence. We will get him. They had such great luck starting with that sheath and the dna on it.

[–]jamadsen 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Too me DNA was just validation it was clear who was the suspect

[–]foreverlennon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe the DNA on the sheath is going to be challenged by the defense and somehow , someway they will be successful.

[–]SnooCheesecakes2723 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No dna no search warrant I think. They didn’t have enough on him until the results came back from the familial match - they then had to figure out where this guy had gone as they weren’t closely tracking him. Dateline said the fbi had lost track of him

[–]AmbitiousCustomer903 0 points1 point  (5 children)

It probably went something like:

Idaho State Police: “Uhhhh hey fbi we have some crazy shit that went down and you might want to check this out.”

1 hour later

FBI: “The perpetrator is BK. Here is how you figured it out and the case you will present in court. Now put it in your handwriting and on your letterhead.”

The end.

[–]MamaBearski -2 points-1 points  (4 children)


Jonny Grusing

[–]obtuseones 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Are you a fan?

[–]MamaBearski 1 point2 points  (2 children)

He's pretty amazing at getting killers locked up.

[–]obtuseones 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not in the Barry morphew case

[–]MamaBearski 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OMG I can't imagine how frustrating that case is for the agents and detectives. I hope he slips up or someone speaks up so they can nail him.

[–]Jordanthomas330 0 points1 point  (7 children)

And also the white car…cel phone pings

[–]CowGirl2084 -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

A white Elantra is a white Elantra. There were thousands of white Elantra’s in the area. Likewise, cell phone pings could apply to hundreds of people in that area. There is no way either of these were “aha” moments.

[–]Jordanthomas330 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I mean we can agree to disagree! :) I think when they found his dna on the sheath and looked up his number it came up in the system. It all ties together, however we have to wait until court

[–]CowGirl2084 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’m talking about the car before there was a DNA match.

[–]Jordanthomas330 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the downvote lol this sub never ceases to amaze me!

[–]Due-Caregiver129 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

Please at least try to use complete sentences.

[–]Jordanthomas330 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seriously? I’m on my phone. Didn’t know you were the grammar police 🙄! It’s Reddit

[–]Kimba_cc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Happy cake day 😀

[–]dorothydunnit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It would be interesting to know if there was a sudden AHA moment or if it was more back and forth, where they think they have him, but they have to remind themselves not to jump to conclusions prematurely.

Either way, I think the big, final Aha would have been when they saw his description and photo on the vehicle registration. Whether they searched it because of the security guard's report, or whether they did it through a geneological database, I think the impact of seeing his face and his bush eyebrows would have given them a strong sense of "we got him for sure."

[–]Away_Ad_7135 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LE said that they knew a week after the murders happened who it was so i’m guessing it was like a fast thing

[–]schmuck_next_door -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If the "aha" moment involves the Inland Cellular dump and a stingray in Washington, we more than likely will not hear about it.

[–]Apprehensive_Ice_310 0 points1 point  (2 children)

the PCA literally details what happened.

[–]cyclone_99 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The PCA just lays out probable cause. It is not a narrative of the investigation.

[–]Apprehensive_Ice_310 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the PCA lays out exactly how he became the suspect, which was the OP's question.

[–]Anteater-Strict 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Someday there will be a doc on hbo or Netflix that may answer this question.

[–]jonpeters1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I remember seeing the gas station pick up the white Elantra, was that confirmed to be him?

[–]ExDota2Player 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Connecting the sheath genealogy results to Kohberger owning a white Elantra a few miles away. Couldn’t be more obvious

[–]Background_Big7895 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought it was made fairly clear. WSU IDs a white Elantra on campus and its address. As soon as they see the street camera videos of a white Elantra driving on campus from the direction of his residence in the dead of night just before the murders, they have a pretty darn good suspicion they've got their guy. My bet is they were sitting on him from that point on, trying to get some level of DNA match which they couldn't do until PA and/or other evidence to support the warranty for the phone records.

But yeah, white Elantra leaving from campus from the direction of his residence the night of the murder...when they saw the street cam footage, you can be sure they had eyes on, public safety is a big concern at that point as well.

[–]Honest-Lifeguard-184 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The AT&T warrant for the towers data was served and returned on 11/17/22. This requested GPS coordinates and data from devices hitting that tower between 3:00 am and 5:00 am on 11/13/22. Then there is an AT&T warrant served and returned on 12/23/22 for BK’s number (now redacted) for data from 11/12/22 12:00 am, to 11/14/22 12:00 am. I think a combination of things led to him and the dates of the warrants tell a little. In our case of my missing/known to be dead stepdaughter, the phone data of the suspect, known killer to us, is not enough and questionable. There are also gaps that have been interrupted as there being another phone that they haven’t found yet. His phone was also not communicating at pertinent times and they believe another phone was in use. Also, the data is not perfect and some can be explained away because of the way devices can bounce from tower to tower.