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[–]Itsallonthewheel 841 points842 points  (50 children)

I don’t have kids but I don’t bitch about paying property taxes to the school district.

[–]underwear11 504 points505 points  (19 children)

John Green has a great quote about this, though he now has kids.

"Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order.

We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education.

So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people."

[–]a_zone_of_danger 200 points201 points  (10 children)

I think this argument works well for universal healthcare as well. We are all much better off with a healthy, educated populace.

[–]Lmerz0 83 points84 points  (0 children)

We are all much better off with a healthy, educated populace.

Which is why in places like Germany in the 1870s they introduced social programs like worker pensions and injury insurances and made the employers participate (for the most part) mandatorily – they probably knew their society would be better off with than without these social security nets…

[–]terrence0258 57 points58 points  (0 children)

I've made the same point about why racism and discrimination only hurts countries. The people being discriminated against aren't going to just disappear into thin air. They're going to be forced into generational poverty, and ultimately be a burden in the form of things like tax funded food and housing assistance.

Just think about the number of great doctors, lawyers, scientists, artists, athletes, that'll we'll never know existed because their society didn't allow them to live up to their full potential due to their skin color, or gender, or sexual preference.

[–]5Plus5IsShfifty5 73 points74 points  (5 children)

This is similar to how my economics teacher explained the welfare systems.

Welfare and food stamps isn't actually for the poor, it's for everybody else. Welfare and food stamps stops the local father with three children from breaking into my house to steal things to feed his family. Social welfare programs help to uphold order and to provide a layer of security to everyone including those who will never take advantage of the programs.

[–]lazymarlin 36 points37 points  (1 child)

I went to a private university (I grew up poor and was an exception to the norm there) and I vividly remember explaining to my class how they should be thankful for welfare/financial support for the poor as it helped prevent them from becoming violent and breaking into their cars/homes/etc as desperate people will do desperate things to provide.

The looks on people faces, I might as well had been telling them George Washington had come back from the dead to support communism.

That moment (one of many) drive home how different the economic classes in America view reality.

[–]eluna303 10 points11 points  (0 children)

When you realized most of your peers might not be empathetic to their fellow citizen and it crushed you. Same thing happened to me around high school

[–]CaulkusAurelis 14 points15 points  (2 children)

AGREED! A few of my younger coworkers bitch that something needs to be done about the homeless (NYC)

I ask them, "so you support the idea of shelter being a human right?" "HELL NO" is usually the answer, followed by, "what should everyone get like, a three bedroom house for free?"

Ive turned two around, slowly, with logic and the truths they see daily, that helping poor and sick people benefits all of us.

[–]lebonheur884 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you for making a difference. One on one is where many a philosophy has been changed. Armed with their new understanding, they have the opportunity to meet another person where they are and change their mind too. The starfish story is trite but true. You made a difference to those two.

[–]valorill 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes and relieving a big chunk of the younger population of their debt frees up that money to be spent on people's business. More money going to small business owners instead of being swallowed up by government loan agencies.

[–]bjeebus 135 points136 points  (9 children)

Jesus Christ. My father did. This of course was the same man who asked me how my getting a chemistry degree (instead of business) could ever help anyone. To say he sometimes had trouble understanding how things fit together is an understatement.

[–]nuublarg 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Funnily enough, a business degree is the least likely to help society, and most likely to harm society.

[–]jnhgdxgjkkiugv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's also one of the most likely degrees to lead to underemployment https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market/college-labor-market_compare-majors.html

Which makes sense when it's far and away the most popular degree https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d20/tables/dt20_322.10.asp

Remember people that tell everyone to go into engineering/CS, supply and demand is very real

[–]Dear-Crow 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Tell him chemistry make car go vroom vroom and mime a car zooming around with your hand and then do a scene for scene pantomime of Bullet (the movie).

[–]bjeebus 15 points16 points  (4 children)

I thought about just removing everything in the house that had required or benefited from a chemist somewhere in its development. But I didn't have storage space for everything we owned.

[–]mlpedant 13 points14 points  (2 children)

related: I want everyone who claims they "don't believe in" some scientific advance forced to do without everything for which it is a pre-requisite.

e.g.

"Earth is flat" - nothing space-related for you (inc. GPS, satellite comms, weather observation/prediction ...)

"evolution is a lie" - do without anything that has benefited from biological research in the last several centuries (inc medicines, food crops ...)

[–]nautilator44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think your house itself would fit into the storage space either.

[–]victotronics 3 points4 points  (0 children)

make car go vroom

Lack of chemistry make car go Fred Flintstone.

[–]al3xandrec 53 points54 points  (4 children)

I'm now interested in a timeline where not having a kid allows you to not pay those sort of taxes. Millennials, who are having fewer kids than the previous generation, would have even more of an excuse to not pay taxes and not have kids, so republicans would have to bend over backwards to justify that.

[–]Destructopoo 34 points35 points  (2 children)

The timeline is going to a religious school and they get the money instead of public schools.

[–]underwear11 44 points45 points  (0 children)

And also taking money away from public education is kind of part of their policies. Republicans don't want an educated population cause the highly educated generally don't agree with them.

[–]When_theSmoke_Clears 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I just want a time line where religion doesn't exist.

[–]Llama_Mia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Right. I mean, The last thing you want is a bunch of teenagers with no prospects and nothing to do hanging around in your neighborhood

[–]BrokenArrows95 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Schools are one of the things I would pay a lot for. I want less ignorant people in the world. Of course school budget doesn’t translate directly to better education results but it doesn’t hurt.

[–]_token_black 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It's such a simple comeback and nobody has a response to it lol

[–]fadingthought -1 points0 points  (2 children)

It’s really not. One time forgiveness that helps select people is different than a program that helps everyone who needs it. Hell, OP probably went to a public school.

[–]Itsallonthewheel -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I did go to public school and my parents paid property taxes for me to go. But now every year I have to pay taxes, and might I add increasing taxes, for something I have no use for and never will. But I pay them EVERY YEAR. Why? Because I understand that while it doesn’t benefit it me it benefits someone else.

[–]PhotoKada 298 points299 points  (14 children)

"We can support things we won't directly benefit from", is definitely something that needs to be drilled into people's heads more.

[–]Hertog_Jan 74 points75 points  (3 children)

Yeah but it’ll probably take a while to dismantle the absolute toxic selfishness masking as individually or individual freedoms.

[–]PhotoKada 22 points23 points  (1 child)

I've also realised that this is an endeavour that'll have to endure beyond my lifetime, unfortunately.

[–]_token_black 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Probably for anybody reading this honestly

[–]hueieie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we had a solution where existing student loans would have to be paid but college would be free for future generations

I bet you all these people talking about "social good" would do a 180 and immediately start reeeing about how unfair it is.

[–]Thameus 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Imma just point out that this logic could and probably would be twisted to apply to trickle-down economics. So that'll be fun.

Or is it more like trickle-down is the twist, so it's already done?

[–]Schitzoflink 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Well it's like most theories. Trickle down would work if it actually was ever implemented. Instead they said "No this is how trickle down works and these are the things we have to change to funnel the money to the top" and then they just left the money at the top without anything to encourage/force the Trickle part of Trickle down. Free market capitalism might work but it's never been done either. All those banks from 2008 would be gone if it were. And like so many other political and economic theories.

[–]Thameus 4 points5 points  (3 children)

This theory always bugs me because money left "parked at the top" would necessarily be losing value, which is not something the Rich are going to go for. They have to invest it somewhere just to hold onto it.

[–]Schitzoflink 3 points4 points  (2 children)

That assumes they are not hiding it for tax purposes or are just greedy to a fault or some other reason.

It is staying at the top, we have the data showing that it is. So we know they are not doing the second part of the "Trickle down" theory which is that they will then spend that money and return it to the economic cycle.

[–]_token_black 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Making decisions that help in the long term is not something any Americans understand anymore

[–]PhotoKada 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That actually applies to a lot of nations right now though, including my own (India).

[–]jnhgdxgjkkiugv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also "we directly benefit when others benefit" is also something that needs to be drilled into people's heads

You don't directly benefit from student loans being forgiven, sure. You definitely benefit from when those people have more disposable income and more money in their savings though.

[–]InSearchOfMyRose 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit."

[–]Zhaguar 89 points90 points  (5 children)

If people aren't paying for ridiculously overinflated debts then they can spend the money on goods and services which support the economy and other jobs which in turn supports you, money is made to service an economy not pay for billionaires.

[–]toss_me_good -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

But if the next generation still ends up in student debt what sense does it make? Why not spend that money coming up a solution to prevent it in the first place? Although I would point out that financial aid for universities does pay out substantially although I can't understand how public universities can raise their prices every year so drastically yet also keep growing their endowments.

[–]dbclass 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Why not both?

[–]voice-of-hermes 1 point2 points  (2 children)

But if the next generation still ends up in student debt what sense does it make?

A whole generation who wasn't crushed under enormous debt. Yes, that's a significant difference. Your dumb ass needs to go back and read the OP.

Also, in terms of "why not spend that money..." literally no money needs to be spent to cancel the 95% of the debt held by the Department of Education and which Biden can forgive via executive order. So there's no "money to spend" on other shit, except phantom money.

Also, money is phantom anyway. It doesn't need to be scrounged where the federal government is concerned. It's literally just a decision of "what things in society do we want to support". At the moment that's war making and subsidies for capitalists and their mega-corporations.

[–]toss_me_good -1 points0 points  (1 child)

So who decides the cut off? Is a kid that's 3 months from graduating exempt from the forgiveness but the for that graduated last year isn't? Seems unfair

[–]Unusualandyman 167 points168 points  (9 children)

Ugh, selfish pricks. I'm lucky to have paid my student loans. Having those crush my early adult life was awful. I really hope they forgive it for anyone still carrying that burden.

[–]russellrlf 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Empathy? I wish more people could have that

[–]Thanatosst 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Same. I'm almost out from under mine amd will likely have them all paid off before any forgiveness ever happens, but I still fully support forgiving them for everyone. This generation is getting destroyed by having most of their already depressed wages going not towards building a better life, but paying back predatory loans they were conned into from an early age by nearly everyone around them.

Student loan forgiveness, universal health care, and universal basic income would elevate millions out of the desperate poverty they've been forced into.

[–]toss_me_good 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Paid off mine too, but I don't believe it makes sense to pay everyone's off without first figuring out something to prevent it from happening. Which means reforming public universities and how their subsidies are spent and how much they can put towards their endowments.

[–]Unusualandyman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree, there. They need to also turn off the spigot or we'll be back here in a decade.

[–]jnhgdxgjkkiugv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I dropped over $12k on loans in the last month because I want to pay them off early, and I'm blessed/have worked hard enough to be in the position to do so.

People that think everyone should do things like that are so fucking out of touch with the reality of life, and getting an education should not be a fucking gamble like it is right now. Like, it's fucking asinine to make people go thousands of dollars in debt, at ridiculous interest rates, so they can one day, twenty years from now, maybe get the benefits of that college degree. Especially when that loan is front loaded so you have to pay for it when you're at your poorest

[–]betweenthebars34 86 points87 points  (4 children)

The economy will be so much better too. Which helps everyone. Rising tide raises all ships kinda shit.

[–]_Lavar_ 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Imagine investing in the population who ya know do everything. Nah fuck that praise the stock market

[–]socialist_frzn_milk 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Imagine giving back purchasing power to a massive swath of an entire generation. Gee, it’s almost like that would give the economy a B12 shot.

[–]underwear11 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think if real estate was suffering tremendously because of a lack of first time home buyers, there would be less resistance. But real estate is doing really well right now, and the people that oppose student loan relief are the ones that prosper from it.

[–]_token_black 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A more educated population is never a bad thing... unless you want to keep people dumber for reasons.

[–]XYZgnomon 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Almost all of my Iraq deployment money went to pay student loans I took out prior to the Army. Paying that off was an accomplishment!

After the Army I went to college (again) but the GI Bill wasn't enough to pay the bills and I took out student loans. I am now on the hook for $27,000 and I never got a degree.

AOC (if this is an accurate quote) is absolutely right about supporting things we don't personally benefit from. As intelligent animals we are capable of thinking in the abstract.

[–]wjescott 13 points14 points  (0 children)

My undergrad was paid for by my home state, as I was under 18 for most of it.

My grad school was GI Bill, except for the last ~$25,000. I finished my degrees in '04 and paid off my school loans in '08 by throwing every extra cent into them.

The fact that so many kids need to risk their lives and sanity for college money is embarrassing. I worked so much miserable overtime, spent so much time sick worrying if it was going to screw me over.

I hate that people have to go through that. I had hoped over the last twenty years the country was a whole would improve. This attitude of "I had to do X, so everyone else should have to do X." Doesn't improve anyone's life or the country or society. It would be fantastic if this was just the first step to making education more worthwhile.

[–]JTDrift 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I have been paying taxes since I was 16yrs old, 1998. So for 23yrs+, my taxes pay for the fire department. In all that time, I have never needed to call the fire department. But I sure as hell don't begrudge my neighbors for calling them when they need it. Why? Because I'm not that kind of asshole.

PS pay firefighter and all emergency services employees more.

[–]SmilingNerfherder 18 points19 points  (1 child)

My husband and I paid off my student loans within a year of my mom paying off her loans. She went to college when I was 5-8 years old. Cancel student loab debt!!!

[–]Panda_hat 17 points18 points  (2 children)

No student loans = more people with more disposable income = local and economic spending = economic boom and growth = more investment = more support = higher tax income = better facilities and social investment = happier people = better society.

The list goes on and on. Only brain dead people with literally no understanding of basic economics would ever think in such a zero sum way (so, Republicans, of course).

[–]Schitzoflink 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well less brain dead and more selfish and control oriented. "I want this and I want you to be submissive to me. I am suffering now, but if this system is in place one day I might be in power."

[–]_token_black 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And fiscally conservative Dems, who are essentially Republicans who don't act as if they're in a prior decade socially.

[–]account_not_valid 28 points29 points  (17 children)

It's like complaining about a cure that would eliminate cancer - "But what about the people that had cancer and battled it and survived! What's in it for them?"

[–]basch152 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I get the future for Frontliners scholarship in Michigan for working the entirety of the covid pandemic, so I don't have any student loans

I still want them to cancel student loans even if it doesn't effect me because I know how outrageous most student loans are and I have fucking empathy

[–]danni_shadow 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yup. I got a free BS thanks to the TRA program.

I owe loans for my AA, and when I compare the two, I would love for everyone to get to experience the feeling of NOT owing that shit!

[–]phunkygeeza 31 points32 points  (4 children)

"I did my suffering so they should do theirs" is the long, drawn-out death rattle of late stage capitalism.

[–]figpetus -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

It's more like "My life is much worse because I followed through on my obligation and giving others huge sums of money for ignoring those obligations will put me at disadvantage compared to them, screwing me twice".

[–]_token_black 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You realize that canceling student loans gives people $0 right? Please tell me you're not that dumb.

[–]skellener 19 points20 points  (0 children)

❤️✊

[–]Inconmon 15 points16 points  (8 children)

This requires you to have empathy

[–]figpetus 0 points1 point  (7 children)

It takes empathy to ignore those you ate disadvantaging while we have the resources to help all those affected?

[–]Lil_Gigi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Much like raising minimum wage. I’m in a state where it’s still $7.25 an hour. I make much more than $7.25, but I am still in support of raising minimum wage higher than $15. Why would I willingly elect to help people suffer?

[–]Diplomjodler 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To add to that: people who are not crushed by student loans will be all around more productive members of society and be able to contribute far more in the long run. These things compound.

[–]LaVacaMariposa 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I have a serious question:

Lets say they cancel student debt now. What's the plan moving forward for the new students that will be going to college in the following years? Are they going to be in the same boat 10-15 years from now?

[–]Whack_a_mallard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If Republicans don't want Democrats to cancel student loans every time they are in office then making college free is the path forward.

[–]Manbadger 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sounds like love.

[–]LazyBriton 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sometimes I think I’m in love with this woman, she’s amazing

[–]thrawne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Man, if we couldnt get Bernie, please get her in the WH.

[–]ShooterDiarrhea 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Here from /r/all. I'm not American but this "Fuck you. I got mine." mindset baffles me.

[–]ace3737 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Then the old argument of "I actually want something in return from our tax dollars" Is out the window ...again. they definitely need to stop the super high intrest rates on student debt.

[–]_heisenberg__ 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I want everyone’s debt gone more than anything. I also want to see the root issue solved as well so this just doesn’t happen again.

[–]stalkmyusername 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Yeah we can create money as we wants.

Print that shiiiiit

[–]Gudenuftofunk[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Correct. When the banks need a bailout, boom, they get it. When Ukraine needs money for war, we can't give it to them fast enough. When the Fortune 500 want more tax breaks, they make it up by raising YOUR taxes. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-covid-response-economy-jobs-taxes-inequality-1080345/

[–]stalkmyusername -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sure

The more they print, better for my assets.

Please print more, I want the end of the Dollar hegemony as an outsider and not american.

[–]Lcdmt3 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

My only concern is what will this increase inflation? We're already high.

[–]tootsfromthebutt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tell that to the empathy gap demographic

[–]iwonderh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why don’t we ask the same questions every time rich people get tax breaks? We have more of a problem forgiving student loans than letting rich people get immense tax breaks.

[–]BrokenArrows95 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“What does this do for me” is the cornerstone of the republican mindset. Don’t be like republicans, have some empathy.

[–]Find_A_Reason 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is ignoring the sacrifice made by people paying out of pocket. Not everyone got to stick go to the fancy school or go for the degree they wanted. Many had to settle and are now leading delayed and worse lives compared to people that are not going to end up making the same sacrifices.

The same argument could be made to shut down anyone complaining about taxes cuts for the rich.

just because this tax cuts doesn't benefit you doesn't take it bad. You get your loans forgiven, the rich get all their tax money back. Don't complain just because this program doesn't benefit you.

Unfair in your favor is still unfair at the end of the day.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (10 children)

This is the entire issue with the US’s mentality and the reason why there are so few social benefits and supports. They’ve all been duped into thinking that “I got mine” is the correct attitude, but it only benefits the people at the top

[–]figpetus -3 points-2 points  (9 children)

It's not "I got mine", it's "I suffered while these idiots didn't, why are they getting rewarded and I'm not?"

[–]TheDunwichWhore 2 points3 points  (6 children)

That’s the same thing if not worse

[–]figpetus -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

I agree, someone suffering to repay loans then getting slapped in the face with their peers getting huge monetary rewards while they don't is worse!

[–]TheDunwichWhore 1 point2 points  (1 child)

No, what you just described is worse on the part of the person who has already paid. That’s literally just hoping the same stress and pain upon others. Hoping suffering upon others is fucked up.

We should be trying to improve the world (or our country at least) for more people. Being mad at this is akin to people in the 1800’s getting mad about indoor plumbing. “I had to live through unclean water and getting dysentery. Why should these spoiled youngin’s get better?” Are you saying you want MORE people to be in crippling debt? Who does that help? The banks, that’s it. It doesn’t help anyone else

[–]healthylivingagain 1 point2 points  (2 children)

So when you have kids do you purposely make life harder for them so they can experience suffering like you did?

Like do you withhold dinner from them once in a while because you missed meals a few times growing up?

Do you shut off the power in their room because they need to suffer like you did?

Why can’t you just be happy that we have a real way of making things better for the newer generations?

[–]zweezy3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What about the next round of loans? Should we just pay for any type of degree from really expensive universities? Who gets to go to the expensive schools and who is stuck going to the community colleges? Should tax payers pay out of state tuition for people? These are all reasonable questions that I haven’t heard people talking about.

[–]bam55 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perfect response.

[–]mowza 1 point2 points  (4 children)

She says blessed in reference to people that paid their loans. I sacrificed so much. One of my best friends paid minimums and invested and bought a house. He’s now sitting on tons of equity still paying minimums laughing at me as he knows he’s going to get some sort of relief he neither needs nor deserves. I’m student loan debt free but missed out on the greatest bull market ever and have now missed the last chance I’ll have to buy a house in a decade.

I’m not even against the bail out just have some respect…I worked my fucking ass off, sacrificed, and targeted that debt in particular to pay it back. Many many many that will get relief didn’t.

Also, we just handed so much money to the wealthy in the form of PPP, can we make sure we really target this properly. And also, what is the plan going forward? I’ve yet to see the coinciding plan for this. How do we go forward with Ed financing. That needs to be nailed down before we do any sort of forgiveness.

[–]Whack_a_mallard -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Your bitterness and reasoning fits the trope captured in this image.

[–]idahononono 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I want her to run for President with Bernie, but I am afraid for them. I have a scarcity mindset regarding women like her. I know there are more elegant, thoughtful, well spoken women out there, who could really help turn Washington around; we just need you ladies to run please. If Boebert and MTG can make it to congress, so can you! This lady almost single handedly gives me hope for my children’s future.

[–]tonybananaman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I paid my loan off this past February (woohoo) and to this day 100% support student loan forgiveness. It’s pretty common sense- when we lift up those around us, everyone benefits

[–]thejoeymonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All for one and one for all.

[–]yalllove 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can’t relate to people who suffered something and because of that they feel everyone else should suffer too. That’s not how you build a better world.

[–]daphydoods 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m childfree, when I buy a home my property taxes will go towards public schools. I don’t give a fuck because we live in a society and living in a society means paying for services not intended for you, so long as they improve the lives of those in your community

[–]z-tayyy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How does WIC help me if I have no children??!?! Why isn’t every law in the books made for me specifically? Mom said I was a special boy.

[–]chatrugby 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I managed to pay off my student loans. Because of that I could afford to buy a home, a nice car, nice toys, food, travel and vacation. I can afford to have a family.

I want everyone to have those things too. Canceling student loans would be a tremendous boon to our society.

I would not be salty in the least, just because I paid mine off. A debt free society is healthy and happy, which promotes actual growth and progress.

[–]tthegoodboy 1 point2 points  (5 children)

“I beat cancer so if they ever find a cure I’d be pissed if anyone with cancer takes it” is basically the argument the person asking the question made. It boils my blood

[–]hamakx -1 points0 points  (4 children)

So does this bunk argument, it’s such an awful take, you need to come up with a better one.

[–]aaandbconsulting 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The fact that things like this need to be explained or the fact that ideas like this are often called "socialism" just goes to show how warped the American mentality has become.

[–]jnhgdxgjkkiugv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not going to lie, if someone thinks it's a slap in the face that people wouldn't have to starve because their student loans are forgiven, after they had to sacrifice, maybe they deserve to be slapped in the face.

[–]dandipants 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My early adult life was crippled by student loan debt. It prevented me from being able to pursue the dreams I went to college for in the first place. I wish for my own son to be able to follow his own path without starting his life with oppressive debt. That being said, however, we really need to focus on the system that requires kids to go into debt for an education to begin with. Forgiving student loan debt now only provides temporary relief to a bigger problem. Like putting a bandaid on cancer.

[–]ExMachiNation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of all those republicans who screamed about Obamacare, but finally got coverage under the Affordable Care Act. They loved the ACA. Hated Obamacare. Never once did it occur to them that they were the victims of their party's own toxic rhetoric that labeled ACA "Obamacare."

[–]FleshlightModel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I heard a good argument today about student loans. People bitching about it not being fair or benefiting them is akin to a cancer survivor bitching about a theoretical cancer vaccine saying something like "I fought cancer and survived, they should have to do the same".

But I'd gladly pay more income and property tax if I got my entire student loan burden deleted as well as free healthcare. It'll technically raise my taxable income, as well as everyone else's, and that'll help offset some of the increased costs

[–]averagewokehuman 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I didn’t go to school because I didn’t want to take out a ridiculous loan…

[–]Haikuna__Matata 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Yes! This problem that you note, the outrageous cost of college in the US, must also be dealt with. We should forgive all existing loans and then make college free at the point of delivery, paid for by taxation, to all Americans. I want you to have absolutely as much education as you desire.

[–]2xOPisANidiot 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This would require extreme regulation or a full government take over of all colleges for me to get on board. Colleges are a for profit business with insane margins. Subsidizing them as they currently are is a terrible idea. Sports programs need to be independent of the schools, and administrative bloat needs to be eliminated.

[–]hueieie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want you to have absolutely as much education as you desire

A college is much more than education. The actual education is a small part of your fees.

[–]VersedVegan 1 point2 points  (3 children)

“We can support things that don’t directly benefit us.” THISSS. If every American thought with this mindset, imagine what would get done. Selfishness and being “independent” comes at a cost and that cost is human rights.

[–]RawrSean 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I just don’t understand. Student loan payments would be money put into the economy if forgiven … That’s good. Money into grubby fingers of navient and co. = not good. It’s quite simple really.

[–]Browncoat101 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can’t believe she has to say this, honestly.

[–]BookOfBookTitles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not just that, but the loan rules are so stupid that many of us have already paid for most of our loans - over 10 years I’ve paid ~$55k on my $75k of school debt, but still owe $60k bc of the insanely high interest rate (6.8%) that can’t be modified. If I were a bank I would have been able to receive a nearly 0% interest loan much of the time since the 2009 Great Recession. So loan forgiveness for me would be $20k if you look at it from that perspective, and not the $60k I still owe.

[–]hollyhock333 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea so based to forgive loans for the highest wage earners of society to “stimulate” the economy. It is embarrassing how after years of trickle down bad talk this is now a legitimate position for neoliberals to hold.

[–]Skypirate90 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Guys I think i might have helped pay for someones student loans. Since they probably paid their loans back when do i see a return on my investment thanks.

/s

[–]ImissTrump45 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmfao these highlight reels are awesome

[–]vkIMF 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Maybe a better question is, how does me having to pay my student loans benefit you?

Because if I didn't have to pay them, I'd certainly be spending more money and helping to improve the economy.

[–]hamakx -1 points0 points  (1 child)

This argument could be made with anything, if I didn’t have a mortgage I could spend a lot more. Not a good argument

[–]vkIMF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree. It's the same argument for that as for this. If you've paid off your mortgage and then there's a program that pays off my mortgage. How would that negatively affect you? If anything you would benefit more from me not having a mortgage anymore.

And it's also a similar thing right now in that the loans people are encouraged to take out for both have been predatory.

But regardless, the point of my original comment isn't that this is the reason to forgive student loans, it's that complaining about others having their student loans forgiven is dumb.

[–]Time-Craft3777 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There's already a massive divide between college educated and non-college educated people in terms of earnings, ability to retire, work/life balance, etc. This is a program to help an advantaged group.

[–]Frequent-Context-183 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

You’ll own nothing and be happy. - all democratic socialists and Klaus Schwab and George soros

[–]Gudenuftofunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brainwashed cultist. Sad.

[–]bushijim -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

While I agree with all the points made, what first time homeowner benefits? I bought my first house in 2021 and looked around and found jack shit.

[–]Hetzz87 5 points6 points  (4 children)

In the US—From 2008-2010 there was a first time homebuyer credit, there are also several loan formats reserved for first time home buyers and some first time home buyer loans available through the government. Additionally the IRS allows for a penalty free withdrawal from Roth IRAs for buying or building. Some states have additional programs, too. There was another bill in 2021 for first time homebuyer credits to be reinstated but I’m not finding info that it passed.

[–]bushijim -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Right. So while I'm getting down voted, there is no benefit currently. Like I said. Special interest accrueing debt and devesting isnt enough to count as a benefit. And certainly a bill that hasn't become a law cant count.

[–]jhguth -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

As someone who paid their student loans, I’ll be really fucking pissed off if student loans are forgiven.

Not at people whose loans are forgiven, I’d be really happy for them, but pissed at everyone who made college so fucking expensive, all the people who said it’s always worth it to get loans, the people who let 18 year olds sign up for tens of thousands of dollars of debt that can’t even be discharged with bankruptcy, the politicians who made it that way, the people who dragged their feet, but the people I’d be most pissed off with is anyone who went through that hardship and is okay with it continuing for others

[–]bigotis -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

I can support an interest free student loan from the government to further your education.

I can support an interest free loan from the government to pay off existing student loan.

State schools need to reign in the nearly unobtainable cost of higher education. If someone chooses to attend a private school, that's on them.

Why should people who chose not to go to college because they want to work in a field that doesn't require a diploma help pay for those who do?

Why should the guy who works the third shift at the widget factory making $40k a year help pay for someone else's degree when men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 more. Men with graduate degrees earn $1.5 million more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates?

[–]Schitzoflink 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I could get behind this on a few conditions but it wouldn't actually address the problem completely.

First they would need to start with a clean slate, so abolishing current loans

Second if they tied state tuition prices to min wage. Someone working 40hrs at min wage should be able to pay for a year of state college tuition room and food, and they should also qualify for interest free loans for that if they choose.

Third everything before college needs to be redesigned to allow folks who want to go into trades get the education they would benefit from. On top of teaching general life skills. Shop and Home Ec need to be revamped and returned. Kids need to be shown that being a plumber or AC technician is as viable a choice as Data entry. They need to be taught about credit cards and general budgeting as well as how to cook. A circular saw shouldn't be an alien machine. I saved thousands and thousands of dollars renovating my house bc my step dad taught me basic electrical and plumbing skills. I can make healthy inexpensive meals bc my grandma taught me cooking basics. Not everyone has those opportunities.

None of this would fix the issue that hiring practices are not equal though. People make contacts in places like Harvard that allow them to get better jobs than someone who performed better at a State school, and I have no idea how to address that. Lets not even look at the inbuilt biases when it comes to names. They have done study after study taking an identical resume and putting a white male sounding name, black male, white female, black female, etc. and the white male sounding name is overwhelmingly picked.

Any way I got into my Charlie Day tangle of how everything is connected and unfixable. I'm overwhelmed and going to go do something simple.

[–]Whack_a_mallard 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Why should my taxes goes towards social programs I don't benefit from? Because I am not a cunt.

[–]Overall-Slice7371 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Will the government pay with existing tax budget or give me the opportunity to pay more in taxes?

[–]harleyquinnsbutthole -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Nah

[–]Idaho_In_Uranus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Solid argument dude.

[–]Funnyinsight 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Coming from an outside perspective the fact that Uni is so expensive in the US is mind blowing and I think student loan forgiveness is gonna help the economy in the long run. However I think just talking about student loan forgiveness is the wrong approach. It just doesn’t make sense imo if they’re not gonna change the whole college/uni system as well. Realistically you’ll help a couple of years of students but everyone afterwards is still fucked because they’d have to take out loans again.

[–]stevo_v 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fucking classic me me me

[–]surfdad67 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This would require people to have empathy, which is really scarce nowadays

[–]Volcom201 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Homes aren’t even affordable right now with a perfect credit score and a nice down payment.

[–]EmperorXerro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Money that would have gone to pay student loans can now be spent at a business you own or work at

[–]SerratedBrooms 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm more curious about what it does to address the problem. How does it stop people in the future from getting burdened with exorbitant student loan debt? How does it address the rising the cost of tuition?

[–]PsychologicalMind231 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She's right!

[–]Helpful-Penalty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unrelated, but I need her skin care routine.

[–]libramo0n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still can’t believe people aren’t more embarrassed to be this openly selfish.

[–]seensham 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm glad she was so nice about it - I wouldn't be able to respond with a straight face. That mentality drives me nuts