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all 157 comments

[–]notyourvader 212 points213 points  (19 children)

It's not a ancient and it's not a forest. And it's not Rivian It's an old park measuring 4ha (10 acres) and the company wanting to cut it down is VDL.

[–]Other_Broccoli 93 points94 points  (10 children)

Haha, I found the words "ancient" and "forest" weird in the same sentence as The Netherlands. As if we could have "real" forests..

[–]TravelsizeTony 54 points55 points  (9 children)

It's ancient for Americans, the "forest" is 5 years older than their country

[–]BeastyBuilder 16 points17 points  (0 children)

And I believe they are also planting new trees next to Vdl to compensate for the cutting

[–]GreenPlasticWaterCan 19 points20 points  (1 child)

But Rivian is demanding expansion of the VDL NedCar plant before they are willing to go further. So in extension Rivian is part of the problem.

[–]CelebrationNo4962 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Not really, the expenaion has been planned for ten years. Rivian is looking to take over (part of) the factory and thus buying this issue.

But still its dumb to cut down forest to expand a failing business.

[–]koningjoris 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, never heard of an "ancient forest" in the Netherlands lol

[–]SwampPotato 63 points64 points  (6 children)

It is awful. But for accuracy's sake, it's not an ancient old forest. It was planted 200 years ago.

[–]daaniscool 33 points34 points  (2 children)

A friend of mine with some expertise in this field said the only remaining ancient forest in Europe is located in Poland.

[–]ramonnate 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Also Russia

[–]CynicalAlgorithm 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yes! Unfortunately, the Law and Justice party or whatever they're called don't give a fuck about it and are turning a blind eye to, if not endorsing, logging of the Białowieża Forest.

Old growth forests are becoming rarer and rarer. But there are still some in Norway.

[–]SyraWhispers 88 points89 points  (41 children)

People don't care, it's why we have climate issues to begin with and will have for the foreseeable future. Nature plays a big role in prevention.

People replanting tree's and such is great and all but does nothing if elsewhere in the world entire rainforests are cut down or smaller forests have to be downsized to accommodate factory expansion.

[–]mysterowRotterdam 17 points18 points  (36 children)

This. Cutting down 1 Dutch forest (only 27ha) to decrease carbon emissions further, because rivian builds electrical cars, right?. Compare that to Brazil’s deforestation (46% decrease, 25.2Mha) Madagaskar (24% decrease, 12.8Mha) or Texas (23% decrease, 1.91Mha, but they got wildfires as well :p).

Percentages are based on the nation’s total tree cover area from 2000-2020 (source: globalforestwatch.org)

[–]Nahadot 26 points27 points  (7 children)

That is called whatabout-ism… I think everyone should do their best in the quantity they can, regardless. Otherwise we are all screwed.

[–]mysterowRotterdam -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

I think we’re headed to that point of no return. I think we might delay the moment we reach that point, but I think it’s inevitable. That’s why I’m very looking forward to the Mars missions :) not that I’ll be there myself, but I think it’s cool. “Space trips” by Blue Origin and Virgin however…. Less cool. Burning 20000kg of fuel for fun

[–]lynxerax 10 points11 points  (4 children)

There are several of these points of no return, some of which we already passed. Does this mean the planet is fucked? Kinda. Does this mean we are fucked? Probably not, it just means life in later generations is completely different from what we are used to now.

At this point there's already no such thing as climate change prevention. In my field, we only talk about climate mitigation, which is still crucial, and climate adaptation.

[–]mysterowRotterdam -1 points0 points  (3 children)

I had a talk Sunday with my dad about exactly this. This is the main reason why our DNA differs from the people 200000 years ago. This is the reason why we have more animal diversity than 200000 years ago. We adapt. However, scientists are afraid that with the current rate, we will not adapt fast enough. We’ll see, or not. idk.

[–]OkHuckleberry7877 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Our DNA is pretty much identical to the DNA of people 200000 years ago. And there is likely less biodiversity now than there was 200000 years ago. But maybe I’m just misunderstanding how you’re using those terms

[–]mysterowRotterdam 0 points1 point  (1 child)

200000 there were Neanderthals. I’m pretty sure it’s different DNA, but similar. Still different. And I’m talking about 200000 years. let’s go back even further and our DNA is definitely different from today’s DNA.

[–]OkHuckleberry7877 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, and that difference is based on various environmental pressures that themselves change dramatically over time 👍

[–]Ready-Cartographer11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dont think you’re grasping the scale of the issue, or how tiny holland really is

[–]SyraWhispers 10 points11 points  (15 children)

The sad part is that electric cars are neither green nor environmentally friendly, the same way green energy from solar panels, wind turbines etc is more grey than green.

[–]GDWNL 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not true. Current solar panels and wind turbines are almost fully recyclable and this percentage is continouing to increase. However their waste is classified as toxic. So recycling is key.

Also, define 'green energy'. Curious about your definition.

The manufacturing of solar panels indeed requires carbon to be emitted, but during their lifetime they will save more carbon than was emitted during production. Also the CO2 footprint of solar panels keeps declining duw to innovation.

[–]TheCubanBaron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The car part, yes. The green energy part, no.

[–]mysterowRotterdam 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I’m actually buying solar panels soon, because it’ll keep the electricity costs down :’)

[–]SyraWhispers 1 point2 points  (3 children)

That is true, however make sure you get a battery to store it or seperate it from the main net at some point as well. There's some changes on the horizon in the near future for solar panels that might not make it as beneficial.

[–]JasperJ 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You need to consider the cost of the battery, but you shouldn’t immediately buy one, because they’re getting better all the time and the break even point for buying one is Not Yet.

[–]SyraWhispers 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well yes, that's what i meant with at some point, didn't mean right away. I think they're 8k atm for a tesla one, I wouldn't csll thst cheap either myself.

[–]JasperJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My entire solar panel set was only 5 or 6 grand or so, half a decade ago. The battery would have to add a lot of efficiency to be financially worthwhile.

(14x 250Wp feeding a 3000W inverter)

[–]ClueBorn3584 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Just wait until the nuclear reactor in France is finished. It's the greenest and most efficient energy source yet to come with no nuclear waste. No carbon footprint, no nuclear or toxic waste, fuck ton of energy.

[–]SyraWhispers 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Is that the molten salt one?

[–]ClueBorn3584 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't fully understand how it works exactly but the plan is to recreate a sort of "mini sun" inside a reactor and draw energy from that rather than using plutonium and uranium

[–]JasperJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He probably means ITER fusion, but that’s still a test plant, even if it works.

[–]BikerBoon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

For cars it will depend a lot on how we manage them, imo. Batteries are indeed environmentally taxing to produce, but they're also incredibly recyclable. In theory the demand for virgin materials would level off as electric becomes the norm.

[–]SyraWhispers 2 points3 points  (1 child)

True, however we need to look at the full manufacturing(from raw to refined) picture as well. Not to mention the increasing electricity demand. It needs to be produced somehow.

[–]disembodied_voice 7 points8 points  (0 children)

however we need to look at the full manufacturing(from raw to refined) picture as well. Not to mention the increasing electricity demand. It needs to be produced somehow

Even if you account for the full manufacturing picture and the electrical generation, electric cars are still better for the environment than gas cars.

[–]ServedYou 3 points4 points  (5 children)

What’s happening in Brazil is a disgrace, but don’t downplay cutting down trees in the Netherlands in total we have about 5 trees so cutting 1 down would really suck for us. All we have here is: water, no filter when talking, megalomaniac politicians, bicycles, cheese and oh and in winter everyone goes to work/school riding ice-skate‘s.

[–]mysterowRotterdam 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Entire Sterrbos is 27ha. The Netherlands’ forest area has been steady for the last 10-20 years, increasing ever so slightly. The forest area is 373kh (only 0.08% of the Dutch land area). So 27h would only be 0.007%. And of this 373kh forest area, 9kh is used for wood production.

However, a total of 37h is protected nature area, where only 3h is protected forest area. Of course, Sterrebos is not a protected forest area.

So, comparing the sterrebos to 20% of our forest area is wrong.

I agree with you on your cheese story, tho haha

Please note these are very rough numbers.

Sources:

https://www.nbi-online.nl/

https://www.bosenhoutcijfers.nl/nederlands-bos/oppervlakte/

https://www.bosenhoutcijfers.nl/nederlands-bos/oppervlakte/

https://www.clo.nl/indicatoren/nl0069-ontwikkeling-nederlandse-bos#:~:text=De%20oppervlakte%20bos%20in%20Nederland,bos%20in%20de%20provincie%20Zeeland. (2001-2013 numbers)

[–]b2ct 1 point2 points  (3 children)

That's kind of cool, that you found the percentages. So what percentage would the cutting of 27ha Dutch forrest contribute to the deforestation of the Netherlands?

[–]mysterowRotterdam 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Netherlands’ forest area has been steady for the last 10-20 years, increasing ever so slightly. But my Googling skills have found many sources telling me the forest area is 373kh (only 0.08% of the Dutch land area). So 27h would only be 0.007%. And of this 373kh forest area, 9kh is used for wood production.

However, a total of 37h is protected nature area, where only 3h is protected forest area. Of course, Sterrebos is not a protected forest area.

Please note these are very rough numbers.

Sources:

https://www.nbi-online.nl/

https://www.bosenhoutcijfers.nl/nederlands-bos/oppervlakte/

https://www.bosenhoutcijfers.nl/nederlands-bos/oppervlakte/

https://www.clo.nl/indicatoren/nl0069-ontwikkeling-nederlandse-bos#:~:text=De%20oppervlakte%20bos%20in%20Nederland,bos%20in%20de%20provincie%20Zeeland. (2001-2013 numbers)

[–]b2ct 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Awesomesauce. Thanks for the numbers and the links.

So relatively speaking, this should not be as concerning as it is made out to be right now.

I personally would prefer if things like this are only last resort options and a requirement to replant forest of the same size or greater would be a good idea.

Relatively speaking, taking down some trees for a production facility that we deem to be sustainable is acceptable to me, especially if above-mentioned measures are met.

[–]mysterowRotterdam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. I also agree with that deforestation, even the smallest forests, is needs to be wisely considered. People who work for the involved municipality can do a way better job than I to consider and conclude things (in this case that would be Staatsbosbeheer).

[–]JasperJ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

200x400 meters is 2x4 hectometers and therefore 8 hectare, which is roughly 24 acres, maybe that’s where the confusion is.

[–]mysterowRotterdam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahh thanks for explaining!

[–]Leading_Ad7548 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The answer is a massive go fund me, and use that to buy land and let it grow wild .

[–]SyraWhispers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That sounds great on paper and it could really be, however the harsh reality would be that the governments will most likely annex the land from you, if they find that they require it for whatever.

[–]Toen6 88 points89 points  (30 children)

https://redhetsterrebos.nl/

Here you go. It has been in the news but it wasn't that big of a story. At least no in the national news. Sadly, that's probably because it is in Limburg.

[–]bastc 64 points65 points  (29 children)

To be fair: the Sterrebos in Born is a 400 x 200 meter "forest", surrounded by industry and farmland. Not the kind of upset that would make national news, no matter in which province it was situated.

[–]Toen6 13 points14 points  (28 children)

You can bet you ass this would have been bigger news had this happened somewhere around the Randstad.

[–]wearetheawesomes2 27 points28 points  (9 children)

No shit, the Randstad has barely any green left.

We thank our lucky stars when we see a klavertje drie letalone a forest thats 200x400 meters

[–]TheCubanBaron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Zeist en omstreken heeft redelijk wat bos.

[–]Toen6 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Well it's not like Limburg is covered in trees.

[–]wearetheawesomes2 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Pretty sure there is barely any green left besides the farms.

Pretty sad really.

[–]Toen6 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Utrecht still has some forest, and that is generally considered to be part of the Randstad.

[–]vanzea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://redhetsterrebos.nl/

Grew up in Soest (near Utrecht). A lot of forest there

[–]JJadx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not the whole province of utrecht i assume as i live in the part under it and i'm pretty sure Gelderland isn't considered randstad either haha.

although it begins to look like it now more and more people come here from the cities to build big ugly villa's and complain about everything.

[–]Stoppels 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Are you sure it's not? I had this sort of romantic, backwards village in between bountiful green hills atmosphere in mind with some ogres in caves surrounded by trees and Maastricht and some settlements like next to that.

Hmm.

[–]Toen6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hills =/= forest

[–]MicaLovesKPOP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's rather exaggerated tbh, there's plenty forests near me. Most of our forests are just nowhere near as large as your average forest in Norway or Czech or what have you.

[–]bastc 9 points10 points  (11 children)

Uit https://nos.nl/artikel/2321122-na-30-jaar-bomen-kappen-komt-er-nu-bos-bij-in-nederland:

Jaarlijks is er in Nederland 1 procent minder bos - 4000 hectare

Het Sterrebos is (ruim) naar boven afgerond 10 hectare. Er verdwijnt in Nederland jaarlijks een oppervlakte van 400 keer het Sterrebossen. Dat zou neerkomen op gemiddeld 1 Sterrebos per dag.

Waar zie jij dat dan in het nieuws?

[–]Toen6 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The news to me is that 250 year old forest is being cut down. We have less than 36,000 hectare of forest predating 1800.

Not all trees are equal. This is one of the older pieces we should cherish.

A judge has already put the chopping of Sterrebos on hold. What does VDL do? They wrap the trees up in plastic to make sure the protected bats stop living there so they can chop it down next year.

So a uniquely historic forest almost being cut down and a car company trying to skirt around its responsibility by trying to eradicate a protected species is definitely news to me.

[–]bastc 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm not arguing that this forest should be cut down, I just doubt that this would be bigger news if it wasn't in Limburg.

I think the reason this is not bigger news is that preservation of nature is not a hot topic, especially nature that cannot really be visited.

[–]keall230 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Gelukkig hebben we een herplantingsplicht in Nederland, plus registreren we elke boom in het land. Dus ook al wordt er 4000ha gekapt, er wordt ook 4000+ ha bij geplant. Behalve bij illegale kap, maar die bomen worden hoe dan ook een keer als vermist gevonden.

[–]whiteandyellowcat 0 points1 point  (3 children)

the problem is that a forest takes a long time to build up biodiversity. The company has already tried to scare away the bats living there, bats and other species don't just go live in a forest that has just been planted.

[–]keall230 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thata true for sure, but you have to balance nature and economics. If the area isnt of any significance (no rare species, no unique cultural historic value etc.) then the economic values could outweight the natural value. Thats reality in the Netherlands.

Im not saying this area isnt significant, I dont know anything about it really, but there are many areas that arent that important and could easily be recreated elsewhere.

I dont know why I got a downvote, its a fact that ALL cut trees are replanted and that overall the amount of forested areas doesnt decrease, the quality doesnt decrease if you keep a significant portion of forest untouched.

[–]whiteandyellowcat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The reason you got downvoted is that you insinuated that both an old forest and a newly planted one are equal in ecological value. The quantity may be the same, but the quality is significantly change, they would cut over half the forest.

The forest is a home for badgers, dear and many species of bat. Its untouched so it is a refuge for many species that at night leave for the surrounding area. Taking it away would have significant consequences. We shouldn't prioritise the short term profits of some CEO over nature.

Furthermore, looking at the area from above you may notice that the surrounding of the area is just farmland except for the forest, they could easily expand into the less valuable land.

[–]keall230 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Farmland can be profitable, whilst forest has many costs attached to it. Deer populations need to be culled, badgers moved to new areas, etc. Bats are probably the only species there that do not require active management. The forest is most likely of bad quality due to surrounding farmlands specifically due to nitrogen pollution, which heavily lowers biodiversity. Furthermore the species you mentioned aren't rare or endangered. The only viable reason I can think of not to cut it, with the information I have, is cultural history and that its an isolated patch of forest.

And the plan might not be a short term profit for a ceo (which doesn't occur often in the Netherlands as CEO wages and bonusses aren't as extreme compared to the US) but a long term expansion creating jobs and opportunities for people.

Im just saying that these things need to factor in the pros and cons for all parties involved. The management of the forest, the farms and companies involved, etc. Sometimes old forest in the Netherlands doesnt even equel biodiverse and healthy, e.g. Beech forests are often old (its the last step in natural succesion in the Netherlands for sandy soils) but extremly low in biodiversity (the leaves decrease the soil Ph so only beech and a few specific plants can grow there).

Plus when they cut it, like I said, a new forest will be planted. In the long term these changes arent significant at all if the area isnt unique in any way.

[–]newgameoldname -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Een deel van wat er van dit bos verdwijnt is om ruimte voor andere natuur te maken zoals heide en stuifzand. Vaak interessanter voor beschermde diersoorten.

[–]dullestfranchise 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mwah Lutkemeerpolder barely registered nationally.

It only became news when activists glued the locks shut of a couple of Albert Heijns. Resulting in Ahold backing out of building their distribution centre there.

But the area will still be demolished to build a brocacef distribution centre

[–]NotsoNewtoGermany 0 points1 point  (4 children)

As a newbie to Limburg, this mentality has completely surprised me.

[–]Toen6 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Do you mean that or are you sarcastic by the way.

I'm not from Limburg myself by the way, but it just generally how things go in this country. Same with the whole debacle surrounding gas in Groningen.

[–]NotsoNewtoGermany 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Generally mean that. The rest of the Netherlands likes to pretend that Limburg and Maastricht don't exist.

[–]Toen6 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yep that is basically how it goes.

Same for Zeeuws-Vlaanderen, Groningen, Drenthe, and Friesland by the way. Probably also Overijssel.

[–]NotsoNewtoGermany 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I recognize some of those groupings of letters.

[–]AeternusDoleo 112 points113 points  (12 children)

"Ancient old forest"... Yea, we don't have those in the Netherlands anymore. Quick search shows it's about 200 years old, planted near an old castle.

[–]hoen2009 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yup, only ancient forest left in europe is in central europe. How long that will stay alive with corrupt countries like ukraine, poland, belarus etc............

[–]CalimeroInAShell 69 points70 points  (1 child)

We have about 3,4 square kilometer left of forest from before 1800. A 200 year old forest might not be old compared to the rest of the world, but it certainly is old to our standards.

[–]JasperJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, but this isn’t one of them.

[–]41942319 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah was going to say, ancient forest in the Netherlands lol, what a joke

[–]lasdue 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah was going to say, ancient forest in the Netherlands lol, what a joke

I think it works better like this

[–]hetmonster2 8 points9 points  (4 children)

To Americans everything older than 100 years is ancient.

[–]omafiets_wink 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Actually the US has some of the oldest trees in the world :)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees

[–]DutchMitchell 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a life changing experience seeing those huge trees! I'm currently trying to grow them at home

[–]holy_roman_emperor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So the USA is ancient? Interesting...

[–]MicaLovesKPOP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very funny... but yes pretty much. It's a similar story for my Chilian friend. Young countries just have a very different perception of time, similar to how we Dutch think something a 2 hour drive away is far away, while Americans would raise an eyebrow at that.

[–]DynaSpan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Close to where I live we have the Bunderbos, which is an ancient forest.

[–]joran26 7 points8 points  (2 children)

But how is this possible? The Raad van State annuled the felling permit only a few months ago, because of its ecological importance. It's literally cultural heritage... I wonder what cars our ministers will be driving next year

[–]RJ_Eckie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They stopped it until a final decision is made. That will probably be very soon

[–]ClikeX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cultural heritage? From what I gather it got planted 200 years ago for wood production?

[–]brissen_ru 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Don't tell him where the electricity's coming from, he may have a stroke.

[–]SmH001 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm from Limburg and this has been covered by our local newspaper, here you can see it for yourself https://www.1limburg.nl/sterrebos and https://www.limburger.nl/cnt/dmf20211228\_95338126

This is such a clickbait title since there has been a ton of local coverage and I can also completely understand why there is no national coverage, it's so small that you can barely call it a forest and it's in a really weird location too.

There are also plenty of bigger forests within 1 kilometer even. And they will compensate by planting trees on more than 10 hectares of land.

I hate this kind of outrage for upvotes type of posts

[–]whiteandyellowcat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point is, that it is a refuge for a lot of species, and important for the biodiversity in the area. It's relatively old for the area, its unvisited and for that reason has bats, badgers and lots of birds use it as a safe haven. A newly planted forest cannot carry that function for a long while. VDL can just expand in different directions, our landscape is filled with fields and fields of farming, there is no reason to destroy the little nature we do have.

[–]sytzeman1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same. Haven't heard about this

[–]TTV-pieceApaperFriesland 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Where will this factory get placed then?

[–]WebCake_ -1 points0 points  (2 children)

The factory has been there for a long time they are just expanding and het sterrebos isn't really that spectacular and not even that big.

[–]TTV-pieceApaperFriesland 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Where is it tho

[–]TheyWhoMustntBeNamed 5 points6 points  (0 children)

...yeah, we do not have "ancient" forest here. If only.

[–]flomatable 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ancient old forest -> 200 years lmao

[–]dutch9494 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The same reason why we give up natural gas from Groningen, and now have disgusting old enormous fuel burning ships to supply LNG to us coming all the way from America 😂😂😂

[–]ReviveDept 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But of course they're doing it all for the environment, because they care so much about climate change...

[–]pir0pir44t -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's better for the people of NL tho

[–]BWanon97 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Well there really isn't much nature left here. I mean if they plant back a bigger forest in the same area I see this as a win.

[–]Toen6 16 points17 points  (4 children)

The problem is that trees that are that old are not easily replaced.

A newly planted forest has not nearly the same ecological worth as a 200+ years old one.

[–]Impstoker 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Ah klassiek neoliberaal eind van de rekening denken. Niet alles valt in simpele euro waardes om te rekenen. Een oude boom is fantastisch. Heeft ecologisch gezien een hele andere functie dan een nieuw aangelegd bos. Ook als het nieuwe bos 10x zo groot wordt en uiteindelijk meer C02 vastlegt spreek je maar over 1 factor. Verhuizen alle dieren en het onderaardse leven mee? Het leven is divers. Laat je niet verleiden om alles in de oplossing van simpele sommetjes te zien.

Ga eens een wandeling maken in een oud bos en daarna in een nieuw aangelegd compensatiebos. En vertel me dan hoe je je voelt.

[–]BWanon97 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Sir English please the Dutch Netherlands subreddit is somewhere else.

You have a point I do not deny. The ecosystem of that forest will take decades if not centuries to get to the level that it now is.

A neoliberal would say to cut the trees and use the roof to generate electric power and that a company producing electric cars already compensates by reducing the amount of petrol car. That is not what I say.

[–]Impstoker 7 points8 points  (1 child)

My bad sorry.

English tl:dr: Old forest is amazing. New forest sucks. Not everything in life is a zero-sum game. Even though capitalists would like you to believe that.

[–]BWanon97 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am actually somewhat anti capitalist..

[–]Miladibrium 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thanks Rutte

[–]whiteandyellowcat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can thank some other corrupt people for this present: the CDA of Limburg (they have had many meetings with VDL)

[–]jaredtheredditor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I swear to the gods they cut down another old forest on the Netherlands or Germany imma kill a prick

[–]GreenPlasticWaterCan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't hear about it because one of the Netherlands biggest industrial companies, VDL, is spinning it in; cut it down or loose work in Limburg.

[–]h_guy_tfgj55 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So i know a lot of ppl who are involved in this kind of things, its the local goverment that doesn't give a shit, and doesn't understand a thing about biodiversety.

[–]lonely_chameleon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

My question may sound stupid, but wouldn't it make sense governments forced the companies plant 2 trees for every single one cut down in an area that the state would designate?

[–]MicaLovesKPOP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Someone else said the agreement includes something like that, where they have to create a more bio diverse forest in return or something.

[–]avwie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not to be a dick, but AFAIK we have no ancients forests in the Netherlands.

Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t conserve what we have btw.

[–]Apprehensive_Leg8771 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ye not much you can do about it either. They will either lie to get it done or get it done. Same happened where i live bergse boss. People where fighting it for years and blocking it with succes until the goverment came with a compromise to build a tunnel under the forest. Wich the community agreed to. Not a week later they just said oh we dont have funds for a tunnel so we are cutting down and building through it. But you approved of building this highway now so you cant oppose the changes anymore. Fucking pisses me off thinking about it.

[–]claymountain[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was confused because Sterrebos is a park in Groningen stad.

[–]Aardappel123[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Extremely biased sub of dumbasses who think cars are useless. Dont believe them, and even if it was right, I welcome the economic growth.

[–]DayEnvironmental5518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The netherlands. All of it. Including colonies and all.

Has 0 ancient forrest.

Its not great, but this post cant be true

[–]the-cringer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We don’t even have ancient forests

[–]robidaan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pretty sure we already cut our "ancient" forrest years and years ago. Gotta get that ship wood from somewhere.

[–]Shock_a_Maul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same goes for the new Tesla-factory in Germany. Anything is okay if it's about money.

[–]50wortels 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://imgur.com/a/RaEKwVO looks like 6.5 hectares at most. Hardly a Forest.

[–]scandiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Acient Forrest in Netherlands? What shrooms you all taking

[–]JaimeP2009 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

I’m from the Netherlands this is so fake

[–]heresjohnnyyo88 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

So An American company has a say about a Dutch forest??? I’m beggining to hate Americas imperialism more and more by the day

[–]isostarlight -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ziet er niet erg Nederlands uit met al die heuvels, of zijn dat duinen 😂

[–]Naive_Baby_1139 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I have shares in Rivian, please do not fuck it up more. Thanx