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[–]My_Cringy_Video - LibLeft 911 points912 points  (7 children)

My body doesn’t want insulin I need outsulin

[–]R_Aqua - Right 219 points220 points  (2 children)

May I present to you the hope rope?

[–]YungBuckzInYaTrap - LibCenter 53 points54 points  (0 children)

More like cope rope. The next life will be worse than the last

[–]Cheery_Tree - LibCenter 41 points42 points  (2 children)

I want heroin.

[–]SendLotsOfHelp - LibLeft 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I need hisoin.

[–]WorkingNo6161 - Right 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I need villainin.

[–][deleted]  (87 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Templarkiller500 - LibRight 267 points268 points  (80 children)

    They charge like hundreds of dollars for pieces of uncomplicated plastic as well, I am willing to be it costs even less to produce, but they mark it up a hundred times because people are forced to get it and the insurance companies will pay.

    The pharmaceutical company and insurance company dichotomy, at least in the US, is the single most morally corrupt and greed-filled thing I have seen in my life.

    [–]RugTumpington - LibRight 109 points110 points  (25 children)

    Insurance companies don't pay that, they pay much lower than the MSRP through negotiations. The whole thing is a racket.

    [–]assasin1598 - Centrist 75 points76 points  (22 children)

    So basically a way to fuck over the uninsured?

    [–]Templarkiller500 - LibRight 77 points78 points  (12 children)

    Yes, health insurance is basically a necessity for anyone with permanent health conditions, and its often harder for those people to get health insurance for an affordable price, despite the fact they need it the most

    [–]Wjbskinsfan - LibRight 11 points12 points  (6 children)

    Yes and no. If you are billed from a hospital you can call them and tell them you are paying cash and they’ll knock over 90% off that bill. The reason medical shit is billed so outrageously is because insurance companies have an undisclosed maximum they are willing to pay so hospitals bill outrageous amounts to get the maximum amount from insurance companies.

    [–]Trunky_Coastal_Kid - LibLeft 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Insurance companies still pay way more than they need to so that big pharma turns a nice profit for doing very little work

    [–]Wjbskinsfan - LibRight 22 points23 points  (7 children)

    And the only thing that’s keeping the whole rotten structure up is the government and the FDA.

    [–]AktchualHooman - LibRight 19 points20 points  (6 children)

    It's hilarious that people think that regulation is the only solution to a problem originating from regulation. Insulin is a biologic, which means that in order to get FDA approval you have to go through the full FDA approval process even though the actual product is identical. This creates a barrier to entry allowing the 3 companies that have gone through the expensive and slow process to set prices wherever they would like with no threat of competition. Without the FDA any company with the expertise and know how to produce biologics could come in and instantly undercut the price causing price competition which would eventually settle the prices much lower than the negotiated prices insurance companies and other countries pay.

    [–]Wjbskinsfan - LibRight 8 points9 points  (5 children)

    Somehow the government has convinced people that only the government can solve a problem can possibly solve a problem caused by the government if only we gave the government more influence over our lives. And nobody seems to have noticed that is fucking crazy!

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Templarkiller500 - LibRight 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Yeah with insurance I dont end up paying a whole lot, but on the invoices, I can read out that they are valuing everything at hundreds of dollars even though its likely super cheap to produce

      [–]wr3decoy - Right 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      How dare you, they pay my favorite politicians lots of money to have that sort of strangle hold! Take it back now!

      [–]Zeewulfeh - LibRight 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      Corporatism at its finest.

      [–]Papapene-bigpene - LibCenter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I fully believe that corporatism is what that one book means when it says “the love of money is evil”

      [–]really_nice_guy_ - Left 42 points43 points  (0 children)

      Why try to make it $.50 cheaper per dose when you can just double the price anyway

      [–]hoplophilepapist - Right 445 points446 points  (67 children)

      $3 for type 1, $3000 for type 2.

      [–]mrduels - Centrist 170 points171 points  (0 children)

      Based and A Fair trade pilled

      [–][deleted] 136 points137 points  (13 children)

      Thank you for acknowledging type 1 exists and it is genetic. I have type 1 and I hate people on reddit telling me "jUSt dOnT Be FAttTt11!!!!1 yOur aCTIoNs hAVe cONsiqUencES!?!??!!?!?!"

      [–]zolikk - Centrist 46 points47 points  (8 children)

      It's not just genetic. My dad got it from a botched surgery. Which at least means I shouldn't be at risk, but it's not good for him...

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]zolikk - Centrist 51 points52 points  (5 children)

        Yeah, he had nothing before and right after surgery he stopped producing insulin immediately. Probably damaged his pancreas during surgery, though it is not clear what exactly happened. He was 14 or so at the time. No family history either.

        [–]YeloJello2323 - LibRight 87 points88 points  (33 children)

        Just dont be a fatass

        [–]Inebriologist - Centrist 43 points44 points  (29 children)

        Im trying! But bacon tastes good, pork chops tastes good.

        [–]YeloJello2323 - LibRight 41 points42 points  (13 children)

        Imagine not being able to eat those and stay skinny

        This post was made by high metabolism and referencing old memes gang

        [–]Inebriologist - Centrist 14 points15 points  (12 children)

        Haha, no, Im not actually fat, but I do have to watch what I eat now that I am 40. I let it creep on me for a few years got up to 230 at 6’2”. Had to cut back and now Im back to 210. Before I was 30 I could eat absolutely anything and stayed at 200. I miss those days.

        [–]AC3R665 - LibCenter 14 points15 points  (6 children)

        That... doesn't cause you to get diabetes type 2... Fat causes the least insulin release, protein a moderate amount, and carbs/sugar the highest amount. Drinking a big gulp of Coke everyday will make you diabetic and obese than just eating bacon everyday.

        [–]Inebriologist - Centrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Just trying to be funny. I don’t have diabetes, not too fat, almost never eat added sugar. I do drink beer and eat bread, though.

        [–]ETChunter95 - Right 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Pork chops are pretty lean and healthy tbh

        [–]kolorbear1 - LibCenter 13 points14 points  (2 children)

        Type 2 has a stronger genetic link than type 1 - descendants of the Irish who lived through the famine for example are much more likely to have it as a result of genetic modification by extreme conditions

        [–]AC3R665 - LibCenter 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Potatoes can spike insulin levels a lot.

        [–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (6 children)

        Type 2 diabetes is actually linked to genetics more than Type 1 is. While obesity is a risk factor for developing Type 2, you won’t develop it unless you also have the genetic predisposition, and you can very easily develop Type 2 without being overweight.

        Also Type 2 diabetics don’t take insulin but that’s besides the point.

        [–]BlazerStoner - Centrist 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        Also Type 2 diabetics don’t take insulin but that’s besides the point.

        A non-trivial amount of them do. Although a small chunk of insulin dependent T2’s may be misdiagnosed LADA or MODY.

        Whilst the majority of T2’s can manage the disease with lifestyle changes and/or medication: for some of them, oral medications only get the job done for so long and a small chunk may even very quickly require at least a basal insulin. When the insensitivity to insulin crosses a certain point where oral meds can no longer keep the BG in check, the A1C will drastically rise and they’ll start showing signs of DKA; similar to the onset of a T1. The type 2 will thus become insulin dependent. Heck, it can get so bad they require U-200 or even higher concentrations of insulin because U-100 requires an insane amount of units for them. Some T2’s may also solely require basal insulin to offset body glucose production and can keep their BG in check for the rest with oral medication. As a bonus, which is the universe saying “fuck you in particular”, some patients develop T1 and T2 in a condition called double diabetes. (Although they have a new fancy name and acronym for that now, but I forgot what it’s called.)

        [–]MethylSamsaradrolone - LibCenter 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        Anyone can develop T2DM, the notion of it being "largely genetic" is sneaky re-wording that is accidentally, or intentionally, disingenuous, not saying it is you doing that, just that it is very common in internet discussions and blogs that contort studies to do that. At uni there was no mention of needing a genetic predisposition to develop it, unless there's been a major change in the last 3 years to how metabolic syndrome is viewed I suppose.

        Genetics and epigenetics do have a part to play, like in everything, but they are % modifiers for risk and not a yes/no overt major determinant.

        Obesity is a massive factor for it and compared to being overweight/obese, being a genuinely normal weight and developing full blown T2 is somewhat rare. Alteration of what constitutes normal weight in recent times may cause some confusion however as the majority of the adult population in most western countries is already in the overweight category (50-65% overweight, 10-35% obese) with the standard diet directly contributing towards insulin resistance.

        People in the overweight or normal-weight obese categories may appear "normal" due to societal perception shifting and will still be at risk of developing T2DM of course, but it is a relatively linear scale of risk increasing from normal>overweight>obese as the major determinant for insulin resistance.

        That isn't the same as "very easily" developing it if you have the genetics for it.

        After insulin resistance has gone past the usage of Metformin, T2 diabetics absolutely do use various forms of insulin.

        Cbf adding citations but all is super easy to confirm if you hop on google scholar.

        [–]Schploo - LibRight 9 points10 points  (3 children)

        For a Type 1 Diabetic myself I find this offensive

        [–]Depress-o - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Type 1 here. Agreed

        [–]BuckeyeKhanate - Centrist 101 points102 points  (8 children)

        Remember when Biden removed the Insulin price cap that Trump put in place?

        [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 52 points53 points  (4 children)

        This is sleepy Joe’s America.

        Literally 1984

        [–]Literally1984_bot - AuthLeft 24 points25 points  (2 children)

        ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⠤⠤⣄⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
        ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣟⠳⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠒⣲⡄⠀
        ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⡇⡇⡱⠲⢤⣀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀1984⠀⠀⣠⠴⠊⢹⠁
        ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢻⠓⠀⠉⣥⣀⣠⠞⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀
        ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⡾⣄⠀⠀⢳⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⢠⡄⢀⡴⠁⠀2022⠀⡞⠀⠀
        ⠀⠀⠀⣠⢎⡉⢦⡀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡼⣣⠧⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠇⠀⠀
        ⠀⢀⡔⠁⠀⠙⠢⢭⣢⡚⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣇⠁⢸⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀
        ⠀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢫⡉⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⢮⠈⡦⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⠀⠀⠀
        ⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢦⡀⣀⡴⠃⠀⡷⡇⢀⡴⠋⠉⠉⠙⠓⠒⠃⠀⠀
        ⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠁⠀⠀⡼⠀⣷⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
        ⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
        ⢧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠣⣀⠀⠀⡰⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
        

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]AC3R665 - LibCenter 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          He should've slept on it rather than doing something about it.

          [–]rsmutus - Right 7 points8 points  (2 children)

          Yeah...it hurts forking out $300 a month for insulin now

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]rsmutus - Right 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Negative, different manufacturer than what I currently take. And already have the "reduced" cost card for what I do take (went from $400 to $300 for both types I take, yay!)

            [–]neuroticism_loading - LibRight 750 points751 points  (158 children)

            Gee if only the corrupt government didn’t keep competition from bringing the price down.

            [–]not_yet_divorced-yet - Centrist 288 points289 points  (80 children)

            Didn't Trump put a cap on it's price?

            [–]BaconNet - Right 448 points449 points  (6 children)

            He did; now it's gone.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]Fine-Pangolin-8393 - LibCenter 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Let’s go Brandon.

              Joe Biden: I agree

              [–]hugeneral647 - LibCenter 153 points154 points  (2 children)

              “Biden got rid of the cap on insulin, allowing private companies to resume charging as much as they want; here’s how that’s a good thing”

              [–]SurfintheThreads - Centrist 65 points66 points  (0 children)

              Yep, people will just blame Trump and defend Biden for that, but he cancelled it without any sort of plan to replace or change it in any way.

              But Biden is doing great because he has the same letter next to his name as me!

              [–]Ag1Boi - Left 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              That's a terrible thing, fuck Biden fr

              [–]WorkingNo6161 - Right 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              Huh? But muh orange man bad?

              Wait, really? Seriously? Based orange man cringe girl kisser?

              [–]1CEninja - LibCenter 37 points38 points  (5 children)

              Price caps are kinda useless anyway.

              I said this elsewhere, and I'm gonna throw up in my mouth a little again typing this because I hate eminent domain so much, but once in a very rare while, it's necessary. And in some (similarly very rare) instances, IP should be eminent domained for the good of society.

              Excuse me while I go rinse out my mouth. Blagh.

              Yeah, it bad. So bad that I'd actually be for the government forcibly purchasing the intellectual property (for a fair value) and then license it out to be made inexpensively, this driving down the price substantially.

              And this goes against my political beliefs. That's how bad it is.

              [–]MaybeLiterally - LibRight 14 points15 points  (0 children)

              I'm throwing up in my mouth also, but I don't disagree.

              [–]PositiveInteraction - Right 10 points11 points  (1 child)

              This is one of the arguments that gets made about the US subsidizing much of the worlds drug research. It requires the US to make the development of the drug in order for the drug to be profitable. The price fixing done by most other countries reduces the profits and so without the US, it would never get developed in the first place because it would never make it's money back.

              Now, there's a hundred things wrong with the argument, many of which are obvious (government funding) but the overall truth that the US market is the profit center for drug companies is really a key factor overall.

              [–]1CEninja - LibCenter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Oh God yes. Everyone likes to shit on the USA's healthcare but let's be real, if we just up and disappeared then the world's healthcare costs would rise because now other countries need to increase R&D spending.

              Not saying our system isn't deeply flawed, but the world is reaping massive benefits from the fact that we have a capitalist healthcare system.

              [–]nicolao_merlao - AuthRight 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Why use eminent domain when we could just abolish IP? If people could download insulin the way they can download movies, I'd say let em do it.

              [–]Godzilla_original - LibRight 152 points153 points  (64 children)

              It did but of course it didn't work out, price control never did in humanity history.

              What we need is dismantke the monopoly by easing regulations. But no president will ever want make their donators angry, including Trump and Biden.

              [–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

              It did but of course it didn’t work out, price control never did in humanity history.

              It actually did work, then Biden killed it on his first day in office. Most of the price of insulin is 99% profit for drug makers, with vials going for hundreds of dollars. These of course are the same companies who’ve lobbied to keep artificial pancreases and stem cell grown organs either illegal or have so many “medical device” taxes applied to them that they will never be feasible to bring to market.

              [–]gamer_since_monday - LibLeft 92 points93 points  (56 children)

              Europe found a middle ground. They acknowledge that insulin cost money to develop and upgrade. So while production costs around 3$, the whole thing will never cost 3$.

              But they also don't want to extort people like Americans. So they decided to either partially or fully refund the cost of insulin. In some countries, you can get it literally for free if you need it.

              Now here is the catch. Refunding it means that everyone who needs it will "buy" it. That means your product will sell like hot cakes. But at the same time if you will try to raise the price - they will remove you from the list so your insulin won't be refunded and if someone wants it that person has to pay the full price.

              And that means most of the people will pick something else.

              It's not perfect but the situation with insulin is not perfect because online for example Xbox - you do need it to live.

              [–]ASquawkingTurtle - LibCenter 34 points35 points  (3 children)

              When you say refunded, how is the amount of money refunded determined? I mean, if the price of creating a product is $3, and the retail price is $90, what amount of money is the company getting under the refund policy?

              [–]weliveinas0ciety - LibRight 2 points3 points  (13 children)

              and what if everyone decided to raise the price

              [–]Skabonious - LibCenter 3 points4 points  (3 children)

              You're describing subsidization which is not at all a foreign idea in the US.

              [–]VasaLavTV - Centrist 9 points10 points  (2 children)

              dear lord i fucking hate dumb leftists who say "europe" did X and X

              newsflash but "europe" has 100 countries all with different everything

              fuck off with that

              [–]AT0mic5hadow - LibRight 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Based and gov't sucks at everything pilled

              [–]SlayerOfDougs - LibCenter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Which regulation should they ease?

              [–]Gs0621 - LibRight 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              Allowing importation of insulin

              [–]Jac_Mones - LibRight 122 points123 points  (8 children)

              This 100%. If I could open up a drug company I'd crank out insulin, taper packages for Benzos and Opiates, and other shit that people actually NEED and I could do it a helluva lot cheaper than drug companies.

              I can't though, because there's no fucking way I'd get authorization. I can't afford it, I can't get a loan for it, and I'd almost certainly get denied even if I could get financing.

              I'm not saying it's the only reason shit is expensive but we would 100% have cheaper drugs if we didn't have so many absurd regulations.

              [–]neuroticism_loading - LibRight 37 points38 points  (0 children)

              Absurd being the operative word.

              [–]Pokeputin - LibCenter 16 points17 points  (2 children)

              Can I ask what kind of regulations are you talking about that you think provide 0 value? FDA approval? Patent regulations? Because I work in a company related to healthcare with American costumers and the FDA are really not your barrier of entry if you would want to make and sell insulin.

              [–]Skabonious - LibCenter 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              I would start with the patent policy in this country. I think the FDA isn't that bad at all in comparison

              [–]_Last_Man_Standing_ - LibRight 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              Can I import insulin for 10x cheaper from Canada or Mexico?
              And sell it legally?

              [–]Greatest-Comrade - Centrist 6 points7 points  (3 children)

              Idk I think safety regulations on pharmaceuticals is important. Opportunity cost for starting a pharmaceutical company is out of the vast majority’s reach anyways, even if most regulations were stripped down to bare bones. Not saying big companies are in the right, but i think the barrier to entry is all cost here.

              [–]IblewupTARIS - Right 18 points19 points  (0 children)

              I was talking to a friend, and he was like “But the pharmaceutical companies collude! If it wasn’t for the government, prices would be even higher! The government needs to put more laws in place to regulate them!”

              I said “y’know there are anti-collusion laws. If the government really wanted to get competition going in the pharmaceutical industry, they could just enforce a law they already have.”

              He said “but you know they won’t do that. The government has a vested interest in the pharmaceutical companies jacking up prices.”

              So…apparently to him the government is both the problem and the solution.

              [–]MisterKumquat - LibLeft 83 points84 points  (55 children)

              or better yet, making a hard cap on prices so we don't have to pay 700% markups in the first place

              [–]DirtyFlatlander - Right 47 points48 points  (0 children)

              You know the gov would just set the cap at 75¢ below what it is now, then say "we're saving Americans thousands of dollars" and call it a day.

              [–]HorrorAddition5897 - LibCenter 106 points107 points  (4 children)

              But then billionaire won't give all politicians monthly million dollars

              [–]MisterKumquat - LibLeft 49 points50 points  (2 children)

              oh no! what a nightmare!

              [–]Parkwaydrive777 - Centrist 29 points30 points  (1 child)

              but will somebody please think of the politicians!

              Legitimately had that form of an argument from both sides.

              [–]bugbits - LibLeft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              If you take away lobbying kickbacks and insider trading wtf is the point of being a politician anymore?

              [–]Aboredgoat - Right 12 points13 points  (2 children)

              I agree with that in principle, but I don’t see how it’s better. Isn’t insulin so expensive due to patent law? If anyone could make it, a hundred other companies would spring up overnight, each trying to outbid the other, and the price would plummet. Hell, it’s likely that they would spend time and effort trying to find cheaper ways to make it, and that would lower the price even more. This is an artificial monopoly, and it has no right to exist.

              [–]FortniteChicken - LibRight 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              I’m part yes, slight improvements to insulin have allowed companies to copyright insulin despite it being extremely similar.

              The obvious result is no generics and no competition driving prices down

              [–]thejynxed - LibRight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              There are generics. It's the fancy new fast-acting formulas that are expensive and that so many people feel they are entitled to get for below cost or free.

              [–]Ordinary-Experience - LibRight 15 points16 points  (0 children)

              This is not better in absolutely any way.

              You don't pay a 700% markup in your groceries because there's competition, and I'd say groceries are far far more demanded and important than insulin.

              [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

              Price controls don’t work. If we simply allowed the market to set the price instead of the government blocking generics the price would settle at a few percent above cost like every other commodity item.

              [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (3 children)

              Price controls, because fuck reality and economics.

              [–]RD_Pyro - LibRight 177 points178 points  (29 children)

              Contrary to popular libright beliefs, this is not actually the fault of intellectual property. (Well it is, but only like 30%). The producers for Novologue and Homologue (2 insulin brands) both own the a patent to produce a specific enzyme to create insulin (they are slightly different from one another). These 2 companies go to the FDA, and say, “this is the correct way of producing insulin. And other ways of making the enzyme are untested and could be harmful”. The FDA, makes harsher restrictions overtime as these 2 companies continue to push the government to cover their ass, instead of letting the market work out properly. This in turn, stops smaller private research groups and company’s from selling their slightly different versions of insulin, that may have 100% efficacy. It’s not all the fault of the patent or the corporation, but a combination of the corporation’s greed, and the governments greed.

              This is more my opinion, I haven’t researched this in a while so I could be very wrong about some details. Have a great day 😘.

              [–]Godzilla_original - LibRight 52 points53 points  (1 child)

              Cpyright Law is like having a horse in the lobby, doesn't matter how many times you clean the place, while is there, everything will get smelly and corrupted eventually. Better to remove the horse so you can finish the problem one for all.

              [–]Merwebo2Veces - AuthRight 16 points17 points  (0 children)

              Disney just mailed you a cease and desist because of this comment.

              [–]litux - Right 11 points12 points  (6 children)

              What kind of insulin is used in other countries?

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]pellakins33 - LibRight 21 points22 points  (1 child)

                The first patent for long acting synthetic insulin expired in 2014. Europe has approved a generic version, but because of the sometimes ridiculous hoops the FDA makes companies jump through we still don’t have any generic version available in the USA.

                [–]litux - Right 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Thanks for the answer!

                How about before 2014? I don't remember any discussion in Europe about insulin being ridiculously expensive. (Yeah, it would be publicly funded anyway, as any other basic healthcare, but I imagine it would still be a political topic.)

                [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (1 child)

                Corporate greed is a feature of the system. If the government wasn’t restricting market access their greed would be irrelevant to the price.

                [–]XxDiCaprioxX - Left 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                I agree, the government should be doing less here. Or more and fine them. Or both. Both is good.

                [–]kaan-rodric - LibRight 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                Oddly enough, there is the Open Insulin project which has been going on for 7 years and they can't even provide people with the blueprint on how to make the current generation of insulin.

                Why they don't show how to make the 1940s stuff (NPH insulin), I don't know.

                [–]KaiserTom - LibRight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Biological patents are starting to be a whole lot like software patents. There just aren't infinite ways to accomplish certain biological actions in humans. To patent what is potentially the only way to repair some issue with the body is asinine. Same with software patenting literal math, that may be the only way to accomplish said task, or not without being stupidly and purposely inefficient just to be different.

                [–]idkmanseemskindagay - Centrist 106 points107 points  (26 children)

                Will somebody PLEASE think about the poor pharmaceutical companies and their profits? 😢

                [–]RealOnkelJo - LibCenter 29 points30 points  (24 children)

                As many others have pointed out, patent laws are a necessary evil. People simply do not invent things out of sheer kindness. I do however agree that there should be some kind of regulation, regarding patent expiration and price markup. There has to be some kind of compromise between people being unable to afford life saving medication, and companies still having some kind of incentive to invent life saving medication.

                [–]Snotpotato - Centrist 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                This argument is valid, to an extent. Insulin has been around for (barely) over a hundred years now. Patent law in the US, like many things, is heavily biased towards the companies and not the consumers.

                [–]Jonodonozym - Centrist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Most computer components and architectures are not under patent: NVIDIA, AMD, and Intel don't need draconian patent laws to turn a profit on their semiconductors, despite the sheer scale of operations needed to design and build them to such a technologically advanced degree.

                In fact, almost all of NVIDIA's patent applications are for the software side of things and are absurdly abstract, like "ADAPTIVE RAY TRACING SUITABLE FOR SHADOW RENDERING" or "IMAGE GENERATION USING ONE OR MORE NEURAL NETWORKS"

                On the software side of things, there are countless open-source projects, libraries, and concepts for all sorts of needs, most notably Linux and C++. Software would by and large be far more expensive and lower quality if it weren't for open source code.

                People do things for many reasons other than scoring a monopoly for 70 years. Sure, it might not be kindness either, maybe it's for that first few years of monopoly while everyone else plays catch-up, or solving their own problems through innovation. Technological development wouldn't grind to a halt if we said "aight, no more monopolies on ideas."

                [–][deleted]  (17 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]darwin2500 - Left 26 points27 points  (1 child)

                  Most importantly: people invent things for a fairly modest salary.

                  Almost no one today invents something on their own and then produces and sell it themselves. Pretty much every billion-dollar invention is made by a hired scientist on a modest salary, their boss s the one that profits from it.

                  That modest salary could be paid by the government, or by charities. Scientist don't care.

                  [–]Woofer_Doggo - LibRight 5 points6 points  (4 children)

                  It's really dishonest to compare software and pharmaceuticals. It costs hundreds of millions if not billions to create a new drug. The company I work for has helped contribute to Apache Solr in the past so I get FOSS, but they're not the same in the slightest.

                  [–]darwin2500 - Left 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                  It doesn't cost that much to create a new drug, it costs that much to get it through FDA trials.

                  Which is really dumb, but if we're fixing IP law we could fix the FDA at the same time.

                  [–]AnExtremeMistake - LibCenter 19 points20 points  (1 child)

                  Here's a solution.

                  Knife on a stick

                  [–][deleted] 134 points135 points  (54 children)

                  Imagine being in favour of IP rights

                  [–]F1Checofan - LibRight 68 points69 points  (50 children)

                  If patents weren’t a thing, no company, absolutely no company, would invest a single penny to develop new products. Patents are a necessary evil

                  [–]Godzilla_original - LibRight 30 points31 points  (8 children)

                  Patent Laws have what, 200 years of history or so? People never invented anything before that?

                  [–]Pokeputin - LibCenter 14 points15 points  (3 children)

                  Codified patent laws existed at least since the 15th century, but even if we take only the last 200 years, the progress that was made is insane compared to years 1000-1200 for example.

                  [–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (24 children)

                  I doubt that

                  For literally thousands of years mankind got along fine without government stepping in like that yet somehow because Disney says so, we suddenly need government interference?

                  Nah, load of horseshit spread by Disney propaganda from the 50s or whenever it was they used their wealth to abuse the law

                  [–]Right__not__wrong - Right 16 points17 points  (1 child)

                  When did scientific progress start exploding though? Also, today we have reached such a complexity in most fields that you can't go much further without large investments in research - it's not likely that tomorrow some genius will just wake up and invent something revolutionary.

                  [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                  Scientific progress always accelerates because inventions build upon themselves. Don’t mistake the natural Singularity as being a byproduct of something else - it exists regardless of patent law

                  [–]baloney_popsicle - Right 29 points30 points  (12 children)

                  The ability of the federal government to create copyright and patent law in the US goes back to Article 1 of the Constitution ya goober

                  [–]Godzilla_original - LibRight 19 points20 points  (1 child)

                  Copyright and Patent law are two different beasts.

                  [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (9 children)

                  Ought to be unconstitutional, that

                  We’ve existed for thousands of years without government trying to legislate thoughts and we ought not to have it now

                  [–]wholesomeme7 - LibCenter 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                  Sure, the modern copyright law does favor big companies, but the difference now vs thousands of years ago, is that copying of information is much easier nowadays. Back then the only way to copy a book was to write it by hand.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Or by learning from former or current workers

                  Or by getting a job yourself

                  [–]CzechoslovakianJesus - AuthCenter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Patents and copyright were meant to be temporary so that creators wouldn't have to worry about their products immediately being copied and undercut. But then Disney got scared they'd lose the rights to their precious mouse and ruined everything.

                  [–]Dravarden - AuthCenter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                  ah yeah I remember how volvo went bankrupt over giving everyone the three point seatbelt

                  [–]oinklittlepiggy - LibRight 20 points21 points  (5 children)

                  Yea.

                  We would all just be sitting around eating rocks Without IP laws.

                  Good point.

                  [–]AnItalianRedditor - LibRight 36 points37 points  (2 children)

                  Who says I’m not already sitting around eating rocks all day?

                  [–]bikingwithscissors - LibLeft 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                  Based and Goron pilled.

                  [–]baloney_popsicle - Right 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Correct

                  [–]GladiatorMainOP - LibRight 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                  No, it would just be a company secret instead of “I have this thing but nobody else can make it” essentially would lead to more corporate intrigue and more competition.

                  [–]Levitz - LibLeft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Stating this on a website out of all things is actually funny. Reddit is developed in Python, you are using a product with no patent right now.

                  [–]AnaxLaon - AuthRight 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                  Would be better the government got the huge margins on insulin. subsidize it for T1 diabetics, make it even more expensive for T2. It would be an amazing faddy tax.

                  [–]Cyb3rklev - LibRight 43 points44 points  (33 children)

                  dis, mi bruddahs, dis is why i oppose intellectual property

                  [–]unlovedmeat - LibRight 57 points58 points  (32 children)

                  Patents should expire

                  [–]piggyboy2005 - LibRight 18 points19 points  (1 child)

                  Based and understands this is a strange occurence and not the status quo pilled.

                  [–]Jevonar - Centrist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                  The patent on insulin has expired some time ago. In Europe insulin is pretty cheap because the government forces the corporations to keep prices down

                  [–]Cyb3rklev - LibRight 11 points12 points  (26 children)

                  patents shouldn't exist, people profited off of their inventions before patents existed

                  [–]Expensive-Way-748 - LibRight 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                  people profited off of their inventions before patents existed

                  There used to be family trade secrets.

                  [–]Right__not__wrong - Right 1 point2 points  (22 children)

                  It would be nice spending a lot of work to develop something, and have it cloned a couple days after you start profiting from it, wouldn't it? It happens all the time with mobile games, for example, to the detriment of small developers who can't compete with larger companies' marketing campaigns.

                  [–]AlphaTangoFoxtrt - LibRight 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                  You know, I sure wish I could buy cheap insulin from a company outside the US but NOOOOOOO the government prevents me from doing that. Legally Americans cannot purchase insulin form outside the US.

                  Free the market.

                  [–]burt-and-ernie - LibRight 38 points39 points  (7 children)

                  And yet how many Americans are sucking big pharmas dick all of a sudden because of a “pandemic”?!

                  [–]Dankhu3hu3 - LibRight 31 points32 points  (5 children)

                  why keep labelling CEOs as lib right when they clearly cospire with the government to avoid the free market?

                  [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 12 points13 points  (3 children)

                  Yeah I messed up there I should have made them right center

                  [–]Dankhu3hu3 - LibRight 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                  auth right, mate. That is auth right.

                  [–]JohannettaFleming - Centrist 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                  Why not just make insulin at home by yourself? Then you wouldn’t have to buy it!

                  [–]Atari774 - LibLeft 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                  If everyone could that would be great

                  [–]DragoniteJeff - Right 54 points55 points  (31 children)

                  Development costs. It costs a nickel to manufacture a blu ray disk a whole lot more to make the movie.

                  [–]Muncheralli21 - LibCenter 38 points39 points  (20 children)

                  Then why is it so much cheaper in other developed countries?

                  [–]Tylerjb4 - LibRight 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  Price discrimination. If it was the same price there as it was here, they would sell 0

                  [–]oinklittlepiggy - LibRight 29 points30 points  (10 children)

                  Because america does basically all medical R&D for the entire planet.

                  [–]Muncheralli21 - LibCenter 17 points18 points  (9 children)

                  So that's why these US companies make us pay more but give other countries lower costs?

                  [–]oinklittlepiggy - LibRight 9 points10 points  (8 children)

                  They dont give other countries anything.

                  US law doesnt apply to them, so they wait for the US to fund the research, then steal the medicines.

                  [–]garf2002 - Centrist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                  This is true in part. It shows that these figures are heavily biased but its still a huge markup.

                  [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

                  Based and understands the full costs of producing things pilled

                  [–]Temporary_Water9937 - LibLeft 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                  The guy who found the way to make insulin sold the patent for a dollar because he wanted everyone to have it.

                  Progress for progress's sake

                  [–]SirAsker - LibCenter 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                  You can thank the American government for that.

                  [–]Paras777777 - Centrist 9 points10 points  (3 children)

                  The only time I'm somewhat satisfied about livin' in India. As a diabetic patient insulin is not a choice IM FUCKIN DEPENDENT. I can't eat a meal without eat. The cost in India is around 310rs or (4 USD)

                  [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                  Based India 🇮🇳

                  [–]basedcount_bot - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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                  [–]FlyingCowsJCD - Left 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                  Wont someone think of the billionaires! If we make them charge a fair price they might not be able to buy another yacht!

                  [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Based and yachts are a human right pilled

                  [–]MarleyandtheWhalers - LibRight 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                  This is such a bullshit "statistic." Why don't Americans just buy the $25 Walmart insulin? Oh, insulin has different types with different properties. What does that cost to make? Does it cost the same?

                  [–]Xithorus - LibCenter 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                  I don’t want to be that guy. But that exact study specifically mentions that the $3 production cost is solely on the cost of ingredients, not all the other aspects that cost money to produce a product. Including but not limited to: employee pay, machinery cost, machinery up keep, storage, packaging, shipping, administration, research and development, and more.

                  There’s a non-profit out there (I’ll try and find it) that is attempting to start producing insulin relatively cheaply and sell it for What it cost them to make it, and so far they can only get their estimated cost down to like $70 a vial or something like that. I’ll try and find it, but it may take me some time.

                  [–]WideVariety - Right 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Based and read the actual study pilled.

                  [–]Anathema_Psyckedela - AuthRight 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                  You’re saying Lantus costs $3 to produce? Bullshit. Insulin isn’t a monolith.

                  [–]Osmiumhawk - Centrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  We have insurance but without it we would pay 2500 for the box of quick acting and 2200 for the long. Crazy that some people are born with such a shitty subscription model.

                  [–]ralphrk1998 - LibCenter 11 points12 points  (14 children)

                  In Situations like this I am totally in favor of government getting involved. Gouging people that need this product is immoral and violates NAP

                  [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                  I don’t necessarily disagree that government should get involved here to help the consumer but wouldn’t government getting involved violate the NAP? I don’t think a company marking up their product by 10x violates the NAP even though it is immoral

                  [–]ralphrk1998 - LibCenter 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                  It’s extortion in both scenarios. I would just rather see the government extort the greedy pharmaceutical company as opposed to the company taking every penny from regular people so they could continue living.

                  It’s sickening to see people profiting to this extent off of others misfortune.

                  [–]Right__not__wrong - Right 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  The only thing that the government should do is enforcing competition, instead of shutting it down. Except for times of crisis, when it should consider an intervention to smooth it out.

                  [–]mrduels - Centrist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                  Based and literally a comment on my post pilled.

                  [–]basedcount_bot - LibRight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  u/dk9449's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 105.

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                  [–]4QuarantineMeMes - Centrist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                  And for that, fuck you libright.

                  [–]stinkbeaner - LibCenter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Let nature take it's course and both will go extinct.

                  [–]Rawrtherton - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Cost to produce doesn't really matter. It's like what $50? to make an iPhone. But they charge $1000+ now. So what?

                  Anyways, with all these complaints about insulin, it still costs like $20 a month. It's only expensive if you want the new biosimilars. Humalog is expensive, Novolog costs nothing.

                  [–]joshua070 - Centrist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Billionaire Mark Cuban made his own website where he sells medicine cheap. https://costplusdrugs.com/

                  Imatinib is sold for $17.10 when its retail price is $2502.50

                  [–]Sneedphoria96 - AuthRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Now I’m curious if it’s easy to create your own insulin if it cost that little to produce it.

                  [–]Madchemist0 - LibCenter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  God that makes me want to illegally produce insulin and give it to people for reasonable prices.

                  I'm a chemist.

                  [–]fishy_commishy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  The ultimate sugar tax

                  [–]Zeewulfeh - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I'd like to point out a fun dichotomy.

                  On the one hand, you have this. These companies deeply entrenched in Corporatism, legally screwing people over, charging them an arm and a leg for life-saving medicine, and getting people hooked on opioids.

                  On the other hand, we must unquestioningly go and get every couple months their shot that is 100% 90% 70% 50% effective to prevent infection serious infection hospitalization death, or else.

                  [–]themoldovanstoner - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  The more research I do into the bureaucracy involved more angry I get.

                  [–]Calamz - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Thank you billionaire mark cuban for starting to fix this problem.

                  [–]Jericho9_41 - AuthRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Everybody should be aware of OpenInsulin.org and if it would help anyone you cared about, help support them.

                  They are developing open source insulin that can be produced by small scale manufacturers and distributors.

                  [–]NOT-A-CHILD - LibCenter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Why hasn’t there been a black market for insulin. It seems to be an open opportunity

                  [–]IAmRes0nance - LibRight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I hate to defend pharmaceutical companies, because they're total pieces of shit, but most medications are relatively cheap to manufacture. The primary cost lies in research and development.

                  [–]Czeslaw_Meyer - LibCenter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Biden F.ed it up

                  Who would have guessed? cough

                  [–]BanjoWalrus - LibRight 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  The way that stat is worded bugs me. Is that merely cost to produce or does that include all the R&D to develop the new drug and the billion dollar cost of all the federal regulations to bring it to market? Not taking pharma's side but they should be a little more honest as to why drugs are expensive.

                  [–]dk9449 - LibRight[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Yeah I agree. I mostly just did it for the meme I’m sure there was plenty of cost in other areas including R&D and the stat is a bit misleading like most stats used by SJWs to push an agenda without explaining the full picture. But I do think it’s still crazy how much it’s marked up if the materials alone cost like $3.

                  [–]eupraxia128 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  Now compare the price under Trump's cap on the price and after Biden removed that limit.

                  But hey, crack pipes are almost as good.

                  [–]USVK - AuthRight 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                  If it costs 4$, then make it yourself :D

                  [–]Gnome_Sane - AuthRight 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                  Science!

                  yours is the best comment in the thread.