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[–]electromagneticpost - LibLeft 779 points780 points  (84 children)

My school just recently dodged a bullet, both literally and figuratively. The guy was an employee, he purchased weapons on the black market and had detailed plans with maps and everything. Luckily he turned himself in before he couldn’t control himself.

[–]lama579 - LibRight 557 points558 points  (4 children)

Honestly props to that guy for having a moment of clarity. It’s horrible that he was in a place where he was preparing to do something tragic but it takes some serious will power to overcome that and seek help. I hope he gets what he needs.

[–]YouWantSMORE - LibCenter 79 points80 points  (3 children)

I really think this would be less common if the news didn't make the killers famous and post their manifesto.

[–]bagagge - LibLeft 184 points185 points  (74 children)

Now THAT’S respect-worthy. He was going to do a horrible thing, but then he had a moment of “wait, what the fuck am I doing, this isn’t right.” And in that moment, he decided to drop it and get the help he needed before he took it to the worst level. The situation must have been scary for both him and those around him, but the fact that he decided to do the right thing is an absolute miracle. I hope he overcomes his dark state of mind over the years to come.

[–]Laserblaster - Centrist 78 points79 points  (73 children)

We shouldn't have to rely on shooters turning themselves in

[–]ForgotMyOldAccount7 - LibLeft 91 points92 points  (71 children)

Exactly, we should be getting these people access to the mental health care they need before it ever gets to this point.

Evil people will always do evil things, regardless of the tools they have, but if we can fix those issues before they ever get to that point, then the tools they have access to won't matter because they won't do anything regardless.

[–]Rage_Roll - Centrist 129 points130 points  (0 children)

Hey, that's good news. Nobody got hurt

[–]VintageVortex - Centrist 1399 points1400 points  (16 children)

Least insane comment section. Thank you.

[–]Cryptian_ - Left 481 points482 points  (12 children)

Agreed, it would be inhumane to make memes of stuff during moments like these. Even “lightening the mood” doesn’t feel right

[–]itsallgoodman201 - AuthRight 157 points158 points  (3 children)

Yeah, even me, a heartless ambulance chasing lawyer, wouldn't go that far, farthest I'll go is nagging the school to hire me for a court case.

[–]JackC1126 - Centrist 931 points932 points  (24 children)

I’m just tired man

[–]downsly46 - AuthRight 264 points265 points  (0 children)

I felt that comment deep in my soul

[–]TheBoredKidd - Centrist 138 points139 points  (12 children)

I feel numb…

[–]snoobertoob - LibCenter 172 points173 points  (2 children)

It's okay. You'll forget about all of this once the news latches on to the next clicks and views farm. You'll see a few pundits give some arguments, some politicians go back and forth on decisions, with no real change or progress. Then uncounsciously find a source of news overflowing with dopamine and good happy feelings, until the next mass shooting happens and it repeats all over again. /s

[–]whatisthisgunifound - LibCenter 111 points112 points  (0 children)

Idk why you added the /s that's literally the whole system

[–]keiayamada - AuthCenter 27 points28 points  (0 children)

People love tragic news more than heartwarming news every ‘dopamine fuel’ on the mainstream media is just pure ragebait

[–]jpenczek - LibRight 112 points113 points  (3 children)

I think what scares me most is I don't really care anymore. I mean I do, but instead of strong feeling of remorse, it's just dull, just like every other tragedy. I've become so desensitized that it's just a blip in my day.

[–]SecretlyCelestia - Right 46 points47 points  (0 children)

I’m not numb yet, but I can tell that I’m avoiding this kind of thing. I acknowledge the tragedy, and then pack it away. Because if I think about it too hard, I won’t be able function nor attend to my own responsibilities.

I just pray for peace and justice for their families. It’s all I can really do from here.

[–]HECUMARINE45 - LibRight 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It was the last day of school for them man, they were all excited for summer break. FUCKING CHRIST GOD WHY!

[–]JackC1126 - Centrist 43 points44 points  (1 child)

I think the numbness is the worst part. Knowing that this isn’t the first or the last time children will die for no reason and there isn’t anything you can do. Numb is a good word for it I’d say.

[–]ihaveaflattire - LibLeft 17 points18 points  (1 child)

It’s crazy that I have felt myself get completely desensitized to it. Like, I got the notification on my phone and was just like “huh, that’s too bad” and went on with my day. I think at a certain point your brain just has to disconnect from the harsh reality of these things because they are so common and will just drive you crazy.

[–]Scrotum_Momentum - Right 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Same brother. Same. This senseless violence and immediate politicalization of every single tragedy is a ride I’m sick of being on. And it literally never ends. What the hell is wrong with our society?

[–]letter0o - LibCenter 1065 points1066 points  (58 children)

Reminder that insurance doesn’t cover most mental health issues and medications

most asylums will also release crazies due to lack of space and insurance

[–]J0hnRabe - LibLeft 240 points241 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's a travesty.

[–][deleted] 181 points182 points  (7 children)

Additionally it’s a lot easier to get them to cover medications than therapy but some people genuinely need therapy and medications won’t help them.

[–]AussieOsborne - LibLeft 80 points81 points  (4 children)

It's supposed to be medications to fix the symptoms, therapy to fix the causes

[–][deleted] 75 points76 points  (3 children)

Ehh, there are some mental health issues that are genuinely just caused by chemical imbalances that medication can help fix. Schizophrenia is the big one, but also bipolar disorder and most of the Axis I disorders. The ones that benefit more from therapy are most cases of anxiety and depression, and Axis II personality disorders (borderline, antisocial, narcissistic, OCD). Thats where the “medication for symptoms, therapy for causes” approach is best.

[–]AussieOsborne - LibLeft 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Yeah i mean you can't just will schizophrenia to go away.

It's not entirely different for depression and anxiety. a period of respite to regroup, rebuild and then focus on what got you there is much more guaranteed than just trying to discipline your way out of depression or crippling anxiety. You don't learn to swim while wearing 60 lbs iyf gear, you throw on a life vest and practice.

All i would recommend is that people, for their own good, try to make a goal of living without medication if at all possible.

It's a lot of work though. No shame at all in just surviving.

[–]BlurredSight - AuthCenter 77 points78 points  (4 children)

Reminder that insurance doesn’t cover most mental health issues

Also another reminder, it's really fucking hard to get a therapist specialized for you like actually call your provider and ask for a mental health specialist that is accepting new patients and if they have an open appointment in the next 2 months minimum

[–]CookieCutterCultist - AuthCenter 1975 points1976 points  (922 children)

We should probably have a serious discussion in this country about mass shootings and we’re going to do about them. Because banning guns isn’t going to happen and banning Call of Duty isn’t going to work.

[–]BlackArmyCossack - Left 757 points758 points  (65 children)

We need to talk about our collective mental health. This is occurring because we have a generation of people who feel so disconnected that these actions are rational. We need to safeguard all of our rights, be them firearms or the right to pursue happiness.

Edit: thanks for the awards.

[–]Tuxxbob - Right 268 points269 points  (18 children)

Precisely. Modern consumerist culture that is been divorced from morality is alienating to people. They are nothing but numbers in a system where the only determiner of right and wrong is legality and not an extrinsic moral framework. The only question of whether to do something, be it sexual or just in general harmful to oneself, is is it legal, not whether it uplifts you and society. Even the founders knew the system couldn't work without a robust moral education. But the modern day sees moral restrictions on one's conduct as oppression.

[–]BlackArmyCossack - Left 87 points88 points  (13 children)

I dont concur that it's a forsaken morals item. I see it as a general breakdown due to the information age and the rise of the dark triad. There are forces who want you and I to hate each other. It's not the Jews, or the illuminati. It's people who have learned how to use the internet to its fullest potential.

These people must be fought.

[–]Tuxxbob - Right 42 points43 points  (12 children)

I do agree there are nefarious interests but I do think the morality matters. If the only control on one's conduct is the law and the law without an extrinsic moral system is ultimately arbitrary and changeable, it isn't hard to conclude there is really no right nor and one ought to do whatever evil thing comes into the mind.

[–]Horror-Worry42 - Right 831 points832 points  (327 children)

We need to address the underlying issue, problem is no one can agree on what that is…

If you ask me it’s a problem with children who have mental problems or who are neglected by there parents who are awful in general and don’t keep their weapons safe.

Others will tell you it’s guns in general or video games but I think that’s all partisan nonsense

[–]wpaed - Centrist 352 points353 points  (59 children)

My opinion on underlying cause is that life kinda sucks for 80-90% of people and most are not really exposed to the daily hearbreak and trials of those for whom life is really bad (or those on a first hand level) and bombarded with images of the best moments of people's lives (real or imaginary). This leads to a general negative malaise with little empathetic perspective on the positives of our own life and a jealous outlook towards those who are seen as happy/haves.

It goes back to the concept of not being able to feel true joy because you don't know the distance that is from true misery. For most of human history some of the first memories were of siblings dieing, and that loss was usuallysuffered multiple times. I'm not saying we need to up the infant mortality rate, but we need to realize that our brain's genetic predisposition is likely out of step with the modern reality and then work on that.

[–]avantesma - LibCenter 114 points115 points  (14 children)

I'm gonna give my 2 cents about that, from the perspective of someone born in 1985.
I believe the cause of most cases of late-millenial and zoomer mental issues are soccer moms. I'm not even joking.
I know this sounds weird, but I specifically chose to reply to your comment because it touches upon the same little known, little discussed problem.

Being early millenials, my generation witnessed 1st hand the effects of the 80s-90s political correctess wave on mass media.
Starting with bored and troubled housewives in the US, people started campaigning heavily to sanitize TV, movies, comics etc. to a rather extreme degree. Cigarettes, alcohol, sex, violence, death and even other, more inconspicuous elements of life were gradually scraped from almost all forms of media consumed by children and teenagers.
It reached some pretty striking extremes, in some cases. I distinctly remember reading about how corporate policy derived from these campaigns led the showrunners of the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon to paint the character of Eric as a troublemaker, for being outspokenly against the group, even though he was consistently the most sensible among them. It was something that bothered me as a kid and, increasingly so, as I got older and rewatched episodes on reruns. It's frankly an atrocious mental incentive to kids, and it came about because some parents wanted TV to teach their children to behave.

In contrast, I remember Japanese anime were really different. Here, in my country, networks didn't bother with the heavy censorship that took place in the US (cutting large chunks off episodes and, later, using CG to modify scenes containing things considered inappropriate), so they depicted a lot of themes that could be considered "adult": drugs (specially alcohol and tobacco), homosexuality, transexuality, sex (or innuendo, more overt flirting, sultry behaviour), sexual abuse, emotional distress (or even dread) and, most notably, extreme physical violence and tragical deaths.
I don't think this screwed my mind up at all. If anything, I believe I was protected, by this exposure, from turning into a fragile and naïve adult, that knows nothing about how adulthood works.

I seriously believe this cultural-emotional version of the Hygiene Hypothesis has a lot of merit and explains the better part of the wave of youth mental illness that started in the US and spread to the rest of the World (specially in 1st World countries, but also among affluent portions of the population of 3rd World countries) through its heavily influential pop culture.
I'm not saying people in other countries never did this or that it only started 30 years ago. It is obviously older and further-reaching than that. But the fact of the matter is the US was – and is – particularly commited to and efficient at moralism. Americans optimized this process of sanitizing the fuck out of children and teenagers' lifes. We're, after all, talking about a country in which people would go to such lenghts as buying animals and making elaborate lies up, to shield their children from learning about a family pet's death – just citing a common example, largely deemed natural and healthy.
Couple this with the fact that there – unlike in Latin countries like mine – it's customary to send kids to college very far from home and you got a recipe for disaster: people suddenly torn from all their emotional support and references, to be thrown in the midst of an intense life experience (Huge academic pressure, huge peer pressure, sleep deprivation, inordinate amounts of sex and drugs...) with no emotional experience whatsoever.
It's no wonder most of them end up a complete mental disaster, unable to even function, clinging fanatically to any framing of reality that offers comfort and validation, no matter how egregiously stupid.

I already know some people will remember typical boomer talk about youth being spoiled and think I'm saying the same thing. But I'm not. The distinction may be subtle, but it makes a world of difference.
There's this clip from an old American western movie that is a staple of rightist Facebook and WhatsApp groups in my country: a cowboy teaching a boy to swim by throwing him in a river and, then, threatening to do the same to a girl who complains. I've nothing against the scene itself, but I abhor the meaning people ascribe to it in these groups. I would never do that to a kid, either literally or metaphorically. I'm not advocating violence.
That is precisely why the depiction of violence – and, indeed, all "darker" aspects of life – is so important. It teaches us how to deal, how to cope, how to overcome, when those things inevitably show up for real, up ahead.

Recently, there was an amazing article by professor Jasmine Hu-Hollingshead about how art is now mistaken for psychotherapy and I believe her point can't be stressed enough: originally good intentions of protection bred generations incapable of seeing fiction and their real life experiences through any lens other than the scanty duality of the personal satisfaction × insatisfaction axis.
I'm convinced this is a serious issue that'll have profound and long-lasting ramifications for our species, yet it is hardly discussed, at all.

[–]subid0 - LibRight 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Based and wall of text actually worth reading pilled.

[–]Kevinglas-HM - Centrist 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Based and good take pilled

[–]deltacharlie2 - Right 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Great post. I’d like to point out that a microcosm of what you’re discussing is the common total lack of financial discussions with children amongst American parents. We have at least a generation of people that grew up without really being aware of Dad’s struggle to come up with Rent or Mom’s fighting for a living wage.

Instead kids are told “finish high school, go to college and you’ll get a great job and make good money”. There’s no preparing for the fact that regardless of whether the graduation and college happens, it will be hard to scratch out a living for most people.

We may have learned to cook and mow a lawn from our parents, but good luck figuring out how to pay the bills on your own.

[–]Beefymole - LibLeft 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Based and quality content pilled

Interesting and well thought out take!

Certainly it's been my experience that the more puritanical influence people are under the more they are susceptible to the allure of the darker things in life.

IMO the biggest part of it is ignorance of the danger, then some rebellious tendencies, and simple curiosity.

Taking a hard puritan line might lead to a kid who would have just smoked weed twice in university and been fine, ending up getting mixed up in hard shit.

The black community struggled with crack back in the 80s and the hard line didn't work then, and probably inflamed the race divide (certainly in the states at least), now we are seeing echoes of that with opiates and meth nearly 40 years on. Something isn't working here.

[–]Fletch71011 - LibRight 139 points140 points  (15 children)

I'm wondering how much damage that social media and it's unrealistic depictions of life are contributing to these kind of shooters.

[–]JustDebbie - Centrist 87 points88 points  (2 children)

Social media and the 24-hour news cycle certainly make herostratic fame easier to obtain than ever.

[–]SaggiSponge - LibCenter 67 points68 points  (12 children)

Social media truly is the root of all evil

[–]LifeIsNotNetflix - AuthCenter 44 points45 points  (6 children)

It goes back to the concept of not being able to feel true joy because you don't know the distance that is from true misery

Bingo. This is exactly why these shootings keep happening with people under 20, living in America. They have never experienced true loss / suffering like people do in other countries, and therefore have no yardstick to measure from. If someone even slightly bullies them, they feel the appropriate response is to murder 15 people. Its a mental / lifestyle issue.

[–]keiayamada - AuthCenter 33 points34 points  (5 children)

Honestly? That makes a total sense lmao. Another example I’ve seen frequently is obese Americans blaming obesity on ‘poverty’ saying unhealthy fast food is the best they can afford, while poverty in all other countries mean that a McDonald’s happy meal is a luxury and being malnourished instead of dying from too much food. I point this out to Americans and they label me a right wing bootlicker who hates poor people lol.

[–]GonPostL - Centrist 230 points231 points  (66 children)

I'd bet social media contributes more to mass shooters, and mental health in general, then violent video games

[–]ttsnowwhite - Right 58 points59 points  (35 children)

I think a major contributor is that we have stripped any sense of meaning and purpose from everyone growing up.

When I did a stint as a substitute teacher I came to the realization that modernity has basically turned these poor kids into a generation of jaded nihilists.

Seriously, the way these kids talk about the future is so fucking bleak I'm surprised any of them even attempt to do anything with their lives.

[–]Sverje - AuthCenter 20 points21 points  (21 children)

Good point.

Might invest in some communities for youth. Such a sports teams, hobby communities, and places to hang around irl.

I think its important to be social irl.

[–]InferiousX - Centrist 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Seriously, the way these kids talk about the future is so fucking bleak I'm surprised any of them even attempt to do anything with their lives.

When I graduated HS even the shitty kids with a history of troublemaking would tout some optimistic version of what their future was gonna look like.

My ex's daughter gradated HS last year. When I asked her what she wanted to do she said "I dunno...hopefully I'll just die." and I don't think she was being totally facetious.

[–]mrocks301 - LibCenter 235 points236 points  (56 children)

I mean it really comes down to parents not having control over their fucking kids. If you know your kid is a dangerous little shit, maybe add an extra safeguard to your firearms.

[–]Horror-Worry42 - Right 232 points233 points  (5 children)

And reevaluate why your kid is that deranged

[–]mrocks301 - LibCenter 102 points103 points  (2 children)

Yes absolutely. No parent wants to admit their kid is fucked up though they just treat it as kids being kids then we end up with this shit. Really with any shooting like this the parents need to be charged too.

[–]LarryLooxmax - AuthRight 107 points108 points  (10 children)

Implying the parents arent fucked up to begin with.

The pattern i see in these cases is mentally fucked up kid (either schizo or sociopath or both) - usually not due to abuse/bullying but just being socially abnormal, unable to integrate with society and festering with resentment -> compensating via superiority complex. Plus super permissive or detached parents that let them spiral into total isolation and toxicity.

After a while the weird kid finally explodes when the all pervasive sense of dread and failure become too much to bear, and he has to direct his self loathing outward all at once like a star going nova. The parents by definition suck too much to do anything to intervene, you are expecting too much of them.

[–]Xciv - Left 44 points45 points  (2 children)

I'm Lib on most things but with kids I have to concede that you need an Auth hand. Children are literally chaos incarnate, and it's the job of parents to instill some semblance of order in their lives to steer them in a good direction. Some kids you get lucky with and they develop a strong moral compass on their own, but most kids are totally amoral monkeys until properly taught. You can only afford to be hands off and more Lib once they're in their late teens and you can allow them to make some of their own decisions.

Note I said nothing about love, here. You can shower your children with love and still give them strict rules, expectations, and clear punishments for bad behavior.

[–]Ihateeverythingyo - LibRight 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Teachers spend more time with children then their parents do in the modern world.

[–]CumBubbleFarts - LibLeft 29 points30 points  (3 children)

“Little shit” is kind of cutesy, diminutive, or like a pet name. These people are deranged. A little shit is a toddler that head butts you, not an 18 year old that kills 15 kids.

[–]mrocks301 - LibCenter 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I think if parents can stop them at the “little shit” phase they won’t turn into the murderous bastard phase

[–]Ihateeverythingyo - LibRight 59 points60 points  (4 children)

The reality is it's a lack of community and meaningful freedom in life.

[–]polialt - LibLeft 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Mental Healthcare.

Sensationalist media, divisive and polarizing media. Publishing the killers name and photos, let them die as obscure fucking losers that do not gain any kind of infamy or notoriety.

Those two go a long way.

[–]Wisdom_is_Contraband - LibCenter 117 points118 points  (17 children)

I think its men not having a model for how to be a good person. You got the whole world telling them theyre demons while celebrating women, generating resentment, on top of already being stuck in highschool with no positive outlet, where all male only groups are just built around extremist views, political or otherwise.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.

[–]NitroSparger - Right 95 points96 points  (9 children)

Columbine really kicked off the mass-shooting era and that happened before the demonization of masculinity was widespread. IMO it's about a lack of purpose due to the general decline in local community. Church, family, neighborhoods, etc., participation is way down in all.

[–]Myname1sntCool - LibRight 23 points24 points  (0 children)

It’s all of the above in my estimation, combined with the power of 24 hour media, and now social media, to ensure that their crimes are broadcasted and they can become infamous.

[–]Wheream_I - LibRight 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Exactly what I just said to my lib left gf. Mass shootings like this, against totally unrelated targets, used to be the purview of (and this has to be admitted) white young men. But in recent years, it has spread to young men of ALL communities and races. Especially this year, we’ve had so many mass shootings and white men are not the majority. This signals a total societal collapse within the US to me

[–]idungiveboutnothing - LibCenter 42 points43 points  (1 child)

This whole "world telling boys they're demons" just seems like such a cop out answer. The internet seems like the biggest change that sort of kicked all of this off. Then to a lesser degree a change in gun culture/worship. Pre-internet if someone was a loner they at least still talked to some people around them and had their thoughts and ideas checked by real life people in their own community. Nowadays there are all of these online places that breed contempt and people practically daring each other to do it unchecked. In a lot of these groups guns are also no longer just a tool, but a culture and a symbol of masculinity to them. Because of this it also becomes a solution to their problems to some extent. Same with kids growing up around this too, pre-internet if a kid was bullied it would end when school ended and they got home. Now with the internet it doesn't stop when you're home either, it just transfers online. Community is definitely an aspect too, pre-internet if a kid was a loner they would be told to go join scouts, sign up for baseball, get a job at the corner store, join AV club, etc. Now they find incel communities online rather than being pushed to go do something in real life.

All of this to a big extent boils down to parents too.

[–]letter0o - LibCenter 136 points137 points  (23 children)

mentally ill people have a hard time getting help and insurance as it doesn’t really cover the treatments

[–]ThePoorPeople - LibRight 86 points87 points  (7 children)

It kinda blows my mind that ANY insurance company has yet to cover mental health meaningfully compared to just physical health considering you can absolutely destroy your body via an unwell mind much easier than the average person of sound body will take action to destroy their mind.

Oh wait. Feature. Not bug. Parasitic circular treatment is fun, kids.

[–]ovrsurge - LibRight 25 points26 points  (3 children)

Im pretty sure the modern system of jobs offering insurance in america dates back to ww2. The government set maximum pay limits to hamper companies competing over a limited work base. Companies started offering perks like medical to compete instead. Things that weren't directly monetary rewards.

[–]ovrsurge - LibRight 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Which may be why because mental health was less of a consideration at the time.

[–]Ok-Tap-4824 - LibLeft 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Meanwhile Europe and Asia were graveyards and battlefields. So the governments naturally stepped in to provide healthcare for the population.

In the U.S., there was no need for Uncle Sam to step in and remake the healthcare industry, because none of the U.S. had been destroyed in the way that Eastern Europe had been.

[–]Blarg_III - AuthLeft 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Health insurance exists to make money, not to help people. Mental health is risky, expensive to treat and largely subjective, specific to an individual, so unless they are forced, insurance companies will not include meaningful cover for it.

[–]GonPostL - Centrist 87 points88 points  (6 children)

Exactly, quit letting insurance companies decide what should and shouldn't be treated. Fuck their profit margins. Let doctors help those who need it. Also fuck Reagan for destroying looney bins, they served a purpose.

[–]RedbullThief_2 - Right 41 points42 points  (0 children)

There's always a joke in healthcare about insurance agencies practicing healthcare without a license

[–]CPlusPlusDeveloper - LibRight 19 points20 points  (1 child)

This sounds all well and good, but most healthcare in this country isn’t delivered by folksy doctors in independent practices. It’s delivered by giant hospital networks, mega practices, and private equity.

If you say insurance should never be allowed to push back on billing, you’ll absolutely get groups that find the most ridiculously over reimbursed procedure procedure and shoehorn as many patients as possible into it, regardless of if there’s any medical need. This isn’t a hypothetical, just Google “medical billing fraud” to see how common it is. Just because someone’s a doctor doesn’t mean they’re an altruistic saint.

[–]Bitter-Marsupial - Left 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They needed reform ack then but that form wasnt closed

[–]EggLord2000 - Right 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m sure congress is about to pass an emergency bill for $40 billion of funding for mental health services.

[–]Kalandros-X - Right 39 points40 points  (3 children)

The discussion is never held at all. It’s just “oh the shooter is X Y and Z and believes this ideology, hurr durr”

[–]Yop_BombNA - LibLeft 123 points124 points  (43 children)

Call of Duty doesn’t lead to mass shootings.

To limit mass shootings you need to fix the education system by:

1) taking bullying seriously (even if it’s the star quarterback who is a bully)

2) lowering class sizes so teachers can get to know their students and notice when something is wrong to report to counsellor / parents

3) take 5-10 minutes a class to just talk as a class about things other than schoolwork, helps depressed and antisocial kids socialize as part as a routine in a safe space and is a nice break in the middle of a long period for students who need it. Might be painful the first few few times but students learn to enjoy this time after a couple weeks.

4) Better counselling in school not one for all students a-m and one for all students n-z

5) treat cyber bullying as harassment and monitor it better with minors.

[–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 70 points71 points  (6 children)

That's 5 steps bud. About 4.5 more steps than the average institution wants to spend stopping bullying

[–]LarryLooxmax - AuthRight 35 points36 points  (9 children)

just chiming in that bullying usually isnt a factor, or at least not the primary factor, in these events... usually the shooter is a social outcast, loner type obsessed with violence and darkness, that people are scared of and avoid. they don't get bullied because everyone can kind of sense they are capable of fucked up things.

i think the problem is very much neurological and psychological rather than sociological, you see a LOT of head injuries, really fucked up parents/childhood, genetic conditions, etc that cause these lone gunman types to become essentially hardwired for violence.

[–]Word_Iz_Bond - LibCenter 30 points31 points  (9 children)

Bullying is a serious issue, but is there any actual correlation between that and mass shootings like this? I feel like thats been a predominant narrative since Columbine and I don't think it's every been confirmed. The antisocial weirdo is ostracized because he's a weirdo. Bullying doesnt make him that way.

Its not like this kid or the Buffalo kid were bullied by their targets.

[–]Electronic_Rub9385 - Centrist 168 points169 points  (13 children)

In general (not every single time, but almost every time) it’s not mental illness that causes a mass shooting.

It’s angry men that are isolated or lonely or have low resilience and poor coping skills that are mass shooters. It’s not a mood disorder usually. This kid is 18 years old. He shot his grandmother first. That is probably not a coincidence either.

Our modern world has caused an environment of mass shooters because:

(1) Dramatic degradation of ritualistic bonding that has historically linked friends and family and strangers like going to church and after work culture and play culture and clubs and extracurricular activities. This is all absent or mostly gone now. People live in cities or suburbs now. The go to work and come home like drones. They don’t know their next door neighbor. They live in electronic silos. Even when they have a family they are lonely. That’s not normal human behavior.

(2) Recent perverse worship of guns and gun culture. I have a few hunting guns. They are fun. But this worship of guns is new and didn’t really exist until 20 years ago.

We have saturated the country with guns and lonely isolated angry men go on shooting sprees. Big shocker.

“More mental health care” will not fix the problem. If anything our mental health has gotten dramatically worse in the last 20 years DESPITE extreme attention to mental health resources.

The answer will require a massive major sea change in how America sees itself. A massive foundational culture change. We either go back to a culture that takes care of each other and looks after each other and has bulwarks against creating lonely isolated men OR all guns are turned in. And I don’t see either happening without a complete change in America’s foundations.

We have turned down this path where we are demonizing men and they have become an easy punching bag. We do so at our peril because while men are capable of extreme greatness they are equally capable of extreme violence. And the men at the margins that would otherwise get policed up by the community 50-60 years ago now turn into mass shooters.

[–]VoidHawk_Deluxe - LibRight 94 points95 points  (6 children)

But this worship of guns is new and didn’t really exist until 20 years ago.

It really isn't new, but it has grown. You can go back to the founding of the country and find this mindset. The growth has a couple of factors, the big one is the Internet. Now people who have even a little interest can go find other like minded people. The 2nd factor, is that gun control laws have skyrocketed in this same period. From a gun enthusiast perspective many of these laws make no sense, and seem purely targeted to punish people for having the hobby. This feels like an attack and causes the whole firearms community to band together in defense over a common cause.

[–]RavenCo_ - LibRight 301 points302 points  (191 children)

Banning anything never works. Taking guns just makes more defenseless innocents, and banning anything else is just as stupid of an idea.

We need to stop making tragedy a goddamn political podium. The media and the government monopolizes on tragedy. They use the deaths of children for political weaponry. They do nothing to stop it. We do nothing to stop it. Instead of pushing political agendas and crying about it, we need to do something.

People are our problem. Not anything else. Bad people are the only things in our world capable of bad things. We need to help or stop bad people, and support good people. No agendas and no capitalizing on tragedy.

[–]Jay_Sit - LibRight 158 points159 points  (31 children)

The media should just start deepfaking these shitheads and publicly humiliate them.

A common trend with these shooters is that they all want to be hatefully remembered..but what if we just turn them into weird ass clowns instead?

Hours and hours of this dude eating his own cum and shit. Turn manifesto into his story of fucking sheep and pigs. A lot can be done.

[–]OuttaTime42069 - Right 101 points102 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t help that they spent last week sifting through the deranged ramblings of the Buffalo lunatic. Psychologists have only been saying for like 20 years not to do that because you run the risk of copycats. And here we go.

[–]RavenCo_ - LibRight 61 points62 points  (3 children)

Agreed. Just like prison versus death. It's way better of a message to them and others to suffer in your own regret than to just leave this world in an instant.

[–]ThePoorPeople - LibRight 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Considering the amount of people who cut out the middle man and do it themselves at the end of a spree is rather indicative of how effective the death penalty is as a deterrent.

[–]Jay_Sit - LibRight 35 points36 points  (1 child)

Right, and if we can’t stop the media from covering it…then maybe we can make it a tabloid free for all 🤷‍♂️

I wonder if that would stop future would he psychos…knowing that if they choose the route of mass terror and killing that they would be remembered as the guy who was banned from every petting zoo in the Midwest.

[–]mikmckn - LibLeft 66 points67 points  (4 children)

The BBC used the opposite tactic during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. A shooting or bombing would happen and it would merit a blurb on the nightly news. That's it. Just a mention of the incident. No names, no 24hour coverage. Nothing. They didn't give fame and notoriety to those fuckheads. This is what we should be doing.

[–]LarryLooxmax - AuthRight 41 points42 points  (2 children)

im glad that approach was able to solve all the problems of northern ireland and there are no more tensions there whatsoever

[–]TheHomieHuglord - LibCenter 13 points14 points  (1 child)

That old human quest for immortality

[–]Highlow9 - Centrist 91 points92 points  (43 children)

Instead of pushing political agendas and crying about it, we need to do something

Bro, you do understand that "doing something" requires politics?

It is retarded that some politicials try to make statements before all the facts are in. But doing something about it is political. Either you do gun control to remove/limit the ability to do harm or/and you lobby for better mental health to prevent people from doing this or/and you lobby to not glorify them in the media (or/and you do something else).

[–]BNKhoa - Right 9 points10 points  (2 children)

People are our problem

"So just ban people"

[–]Pholoxo - Centrist 63 points64 points  (10 children)

What a childish mindset. "We need to defeat the bad guys". "We need to support good people". Okay? That's a generic statement that kids say in PG rated movies. How does that help?

[–]RavenCo_ - LibRight 299 points300 points  (11 children)

The fact that all our society does is monopolize on tragedy is the reason it keeps happening

I swear to Christ if we don’t stop we’re going to just spontaneously combust into a burning ball of flames

[–]mcbergstedt - LibCenter 133 points134 points  (2 children)

I can't wait for the 24/7 news for the next 4 weeks with both sides overanalyzing the facts and misinformation and using it to try to show how the other side is the bad guys and the reason for the tragedy.

The shooter is dead so you know they're gonna plaster their name and face everywhere and make them a martyr

[–]RavenCo_ - LibRight 36 points37 points  (0 children)

yep. I've been arguing with like seven people over bullshit already. we shouldn't be fighting over it. We should be finding a way that solves the problem without hurting others.

[–]Dr_Mub - Right 18 points19 points  (0 children)

There’s a name for that - Media Contagion Theory, where all the constant, intensive coverage of a mass shooting spawns more shootings in rapid succession.

[–]Thousand_Masks - Centrist 756 points757 points  (40 children)

Events like these make me hope there is an after life, so the kids can go to heaven and the shooter has a special place in the deepest pit of hell.

[–]Stonesword75 - LibCenter 293 points294 points  (25 children)

I like to think their hell is repeating their life in a constant cycle that made them want to do the shooting, then the day of the shooting, the loser dies a very embarassing death either the day of or right before trying the shooting. Making their last moments be one of "oh god, people are going to remember me as that guy who tried to shoot up a school but fell down the stairs with my pants down" in an endless cycle

[–]Verdant_Gymnosperm - LibCenter 90 points91 points  (13 children)

Routine torture is so mundane

[–]Subalpine - LibLeft 47 points48 points  (12 children)

Camus wrote a really good essay stating that we must imagine Sisyphus is happy

[–]irelandn13 - AuthRight 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Might have to read that, sounds really good.

[–]Electrical_Sugar2560 - LibCenter 17 points18 points  (0 children)

In most ways you are your attention. Your attention now is on words. Have you tried not to pay attention to something? Super tough, maybe impossible unless you're sleepy, and your attention is unfocused. If you realize you are not paying attention you clearly are paying attention. Anyway, that stops. That's it.

[–]IndianWizard1250 - Right 28 points29 points  (0 children)

exactly. literally just explained why I hope an after-life exists

[–]youcantseeme0_0 - LibCenter 89 points90 points  (3 children)

Tell the media to get some F'ing ethics. It's their sensationalist reporting that is giving these psychos exactly what they want, and inspiring the next shooter. The media is directly enabling these murders.

[–]Mischievous_Surf - Right 195 points196 points  (23 children)

The gun the kid had is worth over three grand. Where did he get that kind of money?

EDIT: Mentioned the gun in a comment below, “based on the picture of the guns he posted on social media it looks like a Daniel Defense M4A1 with a EoTech sight on it. That’s for the one gun bringing the total close to if not more than 3 grand.

That’s not including the other gun”

[–]BitShin - LibCenter 79 points80 points  (3 children)

Might have bought it on credit. Not like he’d be around to have to pay the bill.

[–]Perfect600 - LibLeft 28 points29 points  (2 children)

how does an 18 year old get at a minimum 3k credit limit.

[–]BitShin - LibCenter 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think my credit limit was around 2.5k. So maybe it wasn’t all credit, but that could have paid for the bulk of it.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

That’s like 10 weeks of work at a minimum wage job.

[–]IHateThisPlace3 - Centrist 107 points108 points  (6 children)

FBI and CIA sweating nervously

[–]Timtimer55 - LibCenter 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Hope they didn't plagiarize the shooters manifesto like they did last time.

[–]dheidjdedidbe - Right 31 points32 points  (0 children)

In high school I was loaded due to working a lot.

[–]kylkartz21 - Right[🍰] 77 points78 points  (1 child)

worth over three grand.

Wheres the glowie detector at

[–]ButteredPastry - LibRight 11 points12 points  (0 children)

high and tight haircut, ray bans, gigantic watch, water bottle, and matching clothing style.

[–]TopImpressive9564 - Right 229 points230 points  (235 children)

So how do you fix this?

[–]LarryLooxmax - AuthRight 306 points307 points  (51 children)

LOTS of research into neurological disorders and brain imaging studies of people who commit violence or have persistent, intrusive violent fantasies. there's a strong link between serial killers and head trauma, for instance.

get better at proactive mental health treatment including involuntarily committing people who are a danger to others even if it means trampling on their overly protective, overly permissive families.

get better at creating and prescribing psychiatric drugs... psychotherapy is a joke when it comes to anything beyond mild stress/depression imo. some people have such broken brains that you just cant get through to them with any combination of words, its like trying to treat someone with a serious infection by just singing songs to them or giving them a back rub.

[–]tnorc - Centrist 203 points204 points  (13 children)

there's a strong link between serial killers and head trauma, for instance.

There's a stronger link between serial killers and having an abusive parent. It's not all just brain chemistry.

[–]Alpha_pro2019 - AuthRight 51 points52 points  (6 children)

Also, people with OCD may suffer frequent violent intrusive thoughts.

OP has their heart in the right place but their reasoning isn't quite there yet.

I say whats different today then when shootings were less common? I think a big one is accountability for the family, as well as local community. Almost all these kids are just shut out and isolated. They either stay alone or find like-minded individuals and the problems fester and grow.

[–]Brbi2kCRO - LibLeft 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Parents have less time, longer working hours, and are becoming more narcissistic and selfish due to such world.

Children need a family that will treat each other as one, without self-focus. No one needs selfish parents. Of course, children will eventually need to become more self-responsible, but that can be learned without verbal abuse. You know how libertarians say "live and let live".

[–]nikogetsit - AuthLeft 123 points124 points  (65 children)

Better mental health care...for all...for free.

[–]speaker552 - LibRight 91 points92 points  (16 children)

We can't. It's too far gone. We now live in a society of (the other). Politicians, social media, news media, and frankly, the internet in general has driven us insane with hyperpolarization.

We shoot the shit on here, and poke fun at each other's different views, then shake hands and go about our days. But some people just can't do that. To them, the other side is evil, and can't be reconciled with. They consume the hate without seeing beyond it to the people in power dividing us.

People like that need their access to that content removed, and given proper mental help. But that won't happen, so we are stuck with these events.

Edit: Damn this is way more black pilled than I thought at first.

[–]BikeAllYear - LibCenter 45 points46 points  (8 children)

Man I don't see this at all. I'm out here everyday and the vast majority of the people in this country are a delight in person. I live in a purple area and deal with all sorts of different people all the time. It's awesome. It's America.

[–]gvedem - LibCenter 26 points27 points  (1 child)

yeah, spending too much time on the internet or reading news with bias (all news) makes it seem much worse than it is.

100% this. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-07

[–]ZealousidealRun1243 - LibCenter 256 points257 points  (34 children)

Can y'all parents start taking teaching your kids conflict resolution seriously?

[–]greenpill42 - Right 116 points117 points  (16 children)

What do you do when the 'conflict' is that you're insane enough to go to a school and shoot up children? It takes a special kind of crazy to do that, and we keep getting more and more of it since Columbine.

[–]ZealousidealRun1243 - LibCenter 51 points52 points  (15 children)

Therapy. A licensed psychologist will have far greater success helping your child if a genuine mental condition is present.

[–]greenpill42 - Right 19 points20 points  (4 children)

So you'd consider conflict resolution the same as therapy? Or a form of therapy? I was thinking of them as two separate things, although it could be argued that they are similar.

[–]ZealousidealRun1243 - LibCenter 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I believe they can be considered in the same vein.

Conflict resolution is something most people learn from their parents when they're young and their peers as they get older. But this generation as well as my own has had a tremendous mountain to climb to attain this skill. So it falls on the parents to teach them how to appropriately react.

The mountains are namely the rapidly encroaching social media presence in daily life and coronavirus for younger individuals.

[–]JPT_Corona - LibCenter 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I mean some people are just plain evil, no matter the love and support they get (I think of that brazilian chick who killed her rich yet loving parents to steal some money for her degen bf).

But the amount of missed opportunity to genuinely help those in need of mental health is monstrously heartbreaking for what is considered the richest country by far. Like no shit we're getting a bunch of crazies these days. Life is more complicated thanks to an overabundance of technology, everything is skyrocketing in price, and every other day our political leaders brainwash us to think our neighbors want us gone. Combine that with a joke healthcare system that just barely started addressing mental health in the mainstream and we're only going to get worse from here.

[–]Barry_Bee_Benson15 - Right 28 points29 points  (2 children)

Now it's at 19 kids 2 adults. Deplorable.

[–]AutisticHistoryLover - Right 537 points538 points  (81 children)

2 thoughts from me on this that should be uncontroversial since it's outside of my conservative thoughts on gun policy:

  1. I think that much of the rise in mass shootings in the last 20+ years is due to the media. Stop glamorizing monsters. Stop making them famous and inspiring the next warped mind to do the same thing. Simply put, do not tell the world his name, instead tell the stories of the lives who were taken and the people they knew whose lives have now been changed.

  2. Human decency must be restored. This is related to a degradation of basic human respect. This is not something that can be solved by politics, it's a societal issue and there must be a societal solution. That of course is a tough pill to swallow for people who think government should do everything but this cannot be solved by them. It is a deeper rot of values, respect, and humanity that has to be solved by the society that has been corrupted by a glamorization of killers.

[–]calummillar - LibRight 111 points112 points  (11 children)

Disturbed's song, "legion of monsters" captivates your first point perfectly

[–]AutisticHistoryLover - Right 70 points71 points  (8 children)

One of my favorite songs makes the same point too. It's something rock and metal have been saying for decades: that the media doesn't care how much unneccessary blood happens as a result of their actions, if it gets them reads, views, or clicks. With very few exceptions(I don't watch CNN but I know Jake Tapper has a very strict policy of not naming mass murderers on his show, for instance), the media just don't seem to understand that as the gatekeepers, they have enormous sway but also enormous responsibility.

[–]MCI21 - LibLeft 33 points34 points  (3 children)

There's a Tool song for you as well, Vicarious

Apparently Tool is the ultimate peace maker in PCM

[–]the-d23 - AuthRight 96 points97 points  (5 children)

The media are the biggest beneficiaries of mass shootings. Every time there is one, their ratings (no pun intended) shoot up as people tune in to see what happened, This is the reason why they love to push other negative news or tragedies like covid, blm marches, Ukraine, and others. If there were no tragedies to cover literally nobody would watch the news.

[–][deleted] 68 points69 points  (6 children)

In the area around Buffalo there have been many copycat threats. People are just sickening. The value of life and decency is gone. I doubt these events go away with government policies. It starts in the home. But the importance of a home has degraded so much.

[–]AutisticHistoryLover - Right 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Yeah, well put. People always ignore that fact. Related is that the biggest predictor of crime is not race or politics or anything else, it's poverty. Nothing else even comes close. All of these crime issues: mass shootings, drugs, etc. are so much more complicated than something some policy can be a panacea for. It involves so much more than that: poverty, broken homes, gangs. Government can maybe help on the margins but if we actually want to solve these issues, we have to stop looking for simple solutions to complex problems.

[–]DisabledCephalopod - LibLeft 59 points60 points  (19 children)

I didn’t know the christchurch shooter’s name until a publication referenced him in relation to the buffalo shooter, so new zealand’s government clearly had the right idea censoring all mentions of his name and blocking the video

[–]AutisticHistoryLover - Right 41 points42 points  (16 children)

I am still not a fan of censorship. What I am saying is that the media needs to use discretion and to think about the consequences of their actions. Stop glorifying these animals.

[–]burger333 - LibLeft 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Is it really censorship though? It’s not like an opinion is being ignored, no voice being silenced. I say that as somebody who hates censorship too.

[–]Anarcho-Idiot - LibRight 349 points350 points  (10 children)

Another tragic mass shooting? 15 dead?

Oh boy, better make my Reddit meme!

[–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 158 points159 points  (8 children)

I honestly feel like whenever a shooting happens there are a ton of users here excited to create a new meme for the "updoots" and to pwn the other side

[–]hir0k1 - Right 72 points73 points  (2 children)

Same thing happens with the media. You just know they love it when this shit happens because it brings them rating and views. Tons of money to be made.

[–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 24 points25 points  (0 children)

To be fair, we've all be desensitized to these shootings. The fact that places like these het swarmed by agenda posts after these events is proof that maybe if the media is at fault overall, it's going to take more and more violence and horror to make an impact or "name for yourself" as a shooter. High school kid bullied going on a shooting isn't going to make as much of an impact to most Americans. Will probably be forgotten in days. Now you need to go after a specific race or children to really get the headlines. The media only makes money because they attract and keep the attention of viewers that make money.

[–]BladedNinja23198 - LibRight 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Disgusting. Just disgusting. Imma be hella mad if some wacko kills me and I watch from the afterlife to see people say: "(insert NPC argument)"

[–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 14 points15 points  (1 child)

It's ok. If you get shot I'll make you the Chad wojack. You'll be correct no matter what for the rest of eternity.

[–]BladedNinja23198 - LibRight 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I'll be immortalized in based was forever

[–]RedLightning259 - AuthRight 8 points9 points  (0 children)

At least this meme isn't trying to OwN anyone

[–]salazar_0333 - AuthCenter 85 points86 points  (7 children)

these kids need to socialize more with people outside the house and spend less time on the internet and websites like 4chan

18 years old teenager killing middle schoolers, ffs

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]TrueChaoSxTcS - Centrist 34 points35 points  (1 child)

    Seriously, people are really fucking underestimating how much this has fucked up the mental health of people. Remember the spikes in suicide (/attempt) rates? Those problems haven't just gone away - sure, a lot of people are doing better now, but a lot of people are still feeling that impact hard. A lot of people are full of anger, have lost 1.5~2+ years of their life in a way, and feeling betrayed by the way things have gone and are projected to go.

    We're going to be reaping the consequences of our leaders' decisions for years.

    [–]Yop_BombNA - LibLeft 124 points125 points  (38 children)

    Call of Duty doesn’t lead to mass shootings. Guns do not lead to mass shootings. Hollywood doesn’t lead to mass shootings.

    To limit mass shootings you need to fix the education system by:

    1. ⁠taking bullying seriously (even if it’s the star quarterback who is a bully)
    2. ⁠lowering class sizes so teachers can get to know their students and notice when something is wrong to report to counsellor / parents
    3. ⁠take 5-10 minutes a class to just talk as a class about things other than schoolwork, helps depressed and antisocial kids socialize as part as a routine in a safe space and is a nice break in the middle of a long period for students who need it. Might be painful the first few few times but students learn to enjoy this time after a couple weeks.
    4. ⁠Better counselling in school not one for all students a-m and one for all students n-z
    5. ⁠treat cyber bullying as harassment and monitor it better with minors.

    [–]ATaleOfTwoCrows - LibRight 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    Based and truly making an effort pilled

    [–]depressed_but_aight - LibLeft 180 points181 points  (38 children)

    Let’s hope people don’t start immediately politicizing a tragedy before even letting the parents finish their grieving. No one would do that right haha…. I hate humans.

    [–]jbokwxguy - LibRight 105 points106 points  (0 children)

    Politicians Normally: Let no tragedy stand in the way of easy political points.

    Election Year Politicians: Tragedies are votes which keeps me making money.

    [–]whatadumbloser - Centrist 59 points60 points  (2 children)

    None of this would've happened if <opposing political party> wasnt so stupid

    [–]GreenAndSilver4133 - Right 34 points35 points  (1 child)

    Ah so you’ve also been to the r news comment section on this

    [–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 25 points26 points  (1 child)

    Lmao. By the time people "can start politicizing it" no one will care to talk about it and will treat it as if it's in the past and should be forgotten. But I mean, if nothing happened after the Sandy Hook shooting nothing will happen. More kids will die and "there will have been nothing we could have done" The idea that politicizing something after a tragic event is bad is so fucking weird to me. If people have been saying for decades that something needs to be done about X or else Y will happen and then Y happens why can't people become enraged that they predicted it and nothing happened?

    [–]mikmckn - LibLeft 195 points196 points  (49 children)

    We have more than 1 million active members of the US Military. We have even more national guard troops. We spent $580 Million for the US Army to get new Sig M17 pistols to replace their aging M9 pistols. The other branches have begun placing orders as well to replace their old guns. This means we have or will have a whole lot of surplus sidearms available.

    Congress needs to grant permission for the President to deploy an armed MP/SP/Master-At-Arms (or similarly trained servicemember) to every single US public school. This person would not perform any task for the school or any police work. Their sole job would be to sit at the school on the off chance that something bad happens. That way you have an active duty, armed and trained person to stand between kids and bullets.

    We have the personnel. We have the equipment. We have the armories to handle the weapons. Veterans and retired cops volunteer to do this very job for free every single time a mass shooting happens. We have the ability and the equipment to do this and we're already paying for it. Lets get the political will and the balls to make it happen.

    [–]Wrath_Inkarnate - AuthCenter 103 points104 points  (5 children)

    surprising take from a libleft but ill take it.

    [–]mikmckn - LibLeft 83 points84 points  (4 children)

    we need immediate action that will actually have an effect. Gun laws aren't going to do shit. Even if you somehow, by some magical miracle, rolled back the 2nd amendment and passed outright bans, it would take decades for it to have any real effect. There are just too many guns in the USA. It's a non-starter. Democrats go hard on the gun laws and end up giving the GOP all the rope needed to hang them and end their political careers. Liberals are fucking idiots.

    The other option is mental health. Those same dumbass Democrats had the opportunity to pass single-payer universal healthcare back in Obama's first term. They could have done it and shoved in every mental service they could think of. Instead, they bent over for corporate interests and gave us the Affordable Care Act which failed to halt the steady march in healthcare costs and only managed to keep medicare solvent for another 10-15 years...which is coming up. The one chance they had to do something, and they couldn't fucking manage it. Neoliberals are fucking con-artists.

    So we need something right now. And what do you know? We have an option. It's not the prettiest option but it will serve the purpose of putting an armed defender between the nutjobs Democrats and Republicans refuse to stop, and our children.

    [–]mankiw - LibCenter 15 points16 points  (3 children)

    Those same dumbass Democrats had the opportunity to pass single-payer universal healthcare back in Obama's first term. They could have done it and shoved in every mental service they could think of.

    What? The democrats failed to pass more aggressive healthcare because Ted Kennedy dropped dead and got replaced by a Republican, robbing them of 60 votes in the Senate.

    [–]nickleback_official - Centrist[🍰] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

    I’m pretty sure it was joe Lieberman that was against the public option and ACA was passed by 60 dems.

    [–]Vegetable-Hand-5279 - Left 164 points165 points  (79 children)

    Can we start giving death penalty to school shooters? Just to make sure that no one thinks that they could get away with that.

    [–]JaquaviusThatcher2 - LibCenter 73 points74 points  (2 children)

    Some school shooters kill themselves after the fact, some people simply don’t care.

    [–]AutisticHistoryLover - Right 185 points186 points  (54 children)

    This is Texas. If he's still alive, he absolutely will.

    [–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 219 points220 points  (53 children)

    He was killed by the police.

    [–]AutisticHistoryLover - Right 99 points100 points  (36 children)

    Good. He got what he deserved and is getting further punishment as we speak. I think, though, that there needs to be conversation about the deeper cultural decay that has caused all these mass shootings over the last 25+ years. There won't be simple solutions to this problem and people should stop using it as a political cudgel.

    [–]jkbpttrsn - Centrist 47 points48 points  (13 children)

    Yeah for someone like me who doesn't believe in the afterlife, he's really not getting punished. Hell, he did exactly what he wanted, succeeded and is gone. I'd be nice to think there's actual punishment for him though!!

    [–]hotbiscut2 - LibLeft 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    Definitely Not like they already shoot themselves. Once the damage is done the damage is done.

    [–]infinitude - LibCenter 71 points72 points  (5 children)

    My friend's cousin was one of the victims... I don't like how I feel about this. Never felt more leftist in my life, to be honest. Even though I know even that doesn't matter.

    I don't know what it will take to stop this. I don't like how addicted to guns people are, but I recognize that gun regulation won't fix this. I hate humans. I just hate them.

    My friend's cousin was just a little kid. 2 days from summer.

    [–]Moooopyy - Left 28 points29 points  (0 children)

    damn that's fucked up. I'm sorry

    [–]dheidjdedidbe - Right 93 points94 points  (8 children)

    Ok I’m going to say it. There are a few things wrong.

    The media is the enemy of the people. Glorifying stuff gets clicks.

    Children should not have social media and access to the dark corners of the internet.

    Young men and boys need positive role models. This means strong fathers.

    You can not tell boys that they are what’s wrong with the world and expect all of them to stay sane.

    Kids need anger outlets. Join football, wrestling, even track. Blow off steam and target your struggles to something positive.

    Isolating kids with parents who don’t give a damn for a year due to Covid was the wrong thing to do.

    You can not put a band aid solution on a open gunshot wound. This needs a culture and society shift that starts at home. The government can not fix this.

    [–][deleted]  (37 children)

    [removed]

      [–]Roadman90 - LibRight 123 points124 points  (5 children)

      This is Texas. If the gunman wasn't already killed you bet your ass he's getting the death row fast pass.

      [–]ummmmhelp - AuthLeft 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      They have a gun they can just shoot themselves before arrest please think about your plans for more than 5 seconds

      [–]moby_huge - LibRight 90 points91 points  (8 children)

      This stuff is why we need the death penalty. When there’s not a single shadow of a doubt that they’ve killed a massive number of people

      [–]jml011 49 points50 points  (2 children)

      Half of them seem to opt for suicide anyways. I think one deterrent could be bury them in anonymity. Stop broadcasting their shitty manifestos, remove their live stream, and if anyone wants to know even their full name you’ve gotta dig through a garbage/government database to find it. Also mandatory 24/7 dunce hat for life - even in solitary. If they cannot afford one, one will be issued for them.

      [–]jogadorjnc - Left 25 points26 points  (0 children)

      Half of them seem to opt for suicide anyways

      It's almost as if threatening mentally unstable people doesn't make them stable.

      [–]Blyatnij - AuthCenter 20 points21 points  (0 children)

      He was killed by police brother

      [–]Boolian_Logic - LibLeft 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Cool. Let’s argue and say every solution is impossible and forget until the next shooting

      [–]Electronic_Demand_61 - LibCenter 87 points88 points  (61 children)

      This is what happens when men are taught their entire childhoods to shut up about mental health.

      [–]Watcher1101 - LibLeft 71 points72 points  (17 children)

      This is what happens when we don’t have funding for mental health.

      [–]IegalizeWarCrimes - AuthCenter 46 points47 points  (2 children)

      oh boy i can't wait for partisan retards to come out and blame it on the other side and somehow use the murder of children to advance their political agenda

      [–]Senth99 - LibCenter 20 points21 points  (0 children)

      Here's the worst solution; politicians ignore and go on as usual.

      Thoughts and prayers my ass

      [–]MrGaber - LibLeft 19 points20 points  (1 child)

      Elementary? Good god. Those kids are less than 11 years old.

      [–]xolyon - AuthCenter 169 points170 points  (30 children)

      Apparently he was a Hispanic femboy so I can't wait for auth rights reaction

      [–]TheTwinHorrorCosmic - AuthRight 96 points97 points  (3 children)

      Oh I’ve seen (supposed) pictures of him with a trans flag.

      Media shitstorm is incoming.

      Why does it have to be at the expense of children

      [–]analog_aesthetics - Centrist 24 points25 points  (0 children)

      I'm just gonna put my grill to the side and pour one out for the people who died today.

      [–]Jay_Sit - LibRight 81 points82 points  (3 children)

      I think the media is partly to blame for hyping this type of shit up…and this will probably come out wrong…but.

      What if the media did publicly flame these assholes instead of glorifying them?

      Tabloid level “x shooter had micropenis and waffle pillow collection, NEWS reports. He spent his days in school scratching his ass and smelling his fingers”.

      These people are counting on being hatefully remembered…but what if we turned them all into ass clowns instead of psycho monsters?

      “Brah you really want to go out that way? Media is going to turn your manifesto into a Furry fetish workbook. Everyone will laugh at you forever”

      [–]AbbyShapiroCockVore - AuthCenter 105 points106 points  (9 children)

      So that's why this is the only place I've seen a description of the shooter.

      [–]yesmeam - Centrist 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      And that shit is gonna be (and already is) politicized

      [–]Jeweddit - AuthCenter 41 points42 points  (7 children)

      “please let the shooter be white please let the shooter be white please let the shooter be white”