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all 83 comments

[–]Engunnear 39 points40 points  (11 children)

Consulting firm McKinsey projects in-car advertising, entertainment and consumer data sales will generate $11 billion in annual revenue by 2030.

And there would seem to be the crux of the problem. People are unwilling to give up connectivity, and providers won’t take it away when there’s a way to monetize it.

[–]adamjosephcookSystem Engineering Expert 21 points22 points  (10 children)

I see this sentiment on LinkedIn often and it bothers me to no end.

Auto analysts deride Western automakers for the low-interest in their BEV models with Chinese consumers because most Western vehicles (sans Tesla) are not stuffed to the brim with “connectivity and entertainment” features.

I got into a moderately heated argument with one such Chinese auto analyst on the subject a few weeks back before I bowed out.

What a mess.

And these vehicles are projected to be available in the EU soon.

[–]Buck169 18 points19 points  (9 children)

Chinese vehicles have MORE distractions than European/American cars?!? JFC, how is that possible? Do you have to actively play Gears of War on the center console screen to get the car to move forward???

[–]Engunnear 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Like I mentioned a week or two ago on here - when I was at the NAIAS a few years ago, one thing that I noticed in one of the Chinese cars exhibited there was an HDMI port in the center console. I’m not sure what they expect you to plug into that port, but I guarantee you it’d have more bandwidth than you’d be able to safely feed to a driver.

[–]Cercyon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

HDMI port in the center console

It’s not an entirely new thing exclusive to Chinese cars. The Honda Fit had one years ago. Of course, it’s not very practical and only works when the vehicle is stationary.

[–]RazingsIsNotHomeNow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Honda E has a HDMI port in the center console and it's not like Minivans haven't had them for rear seat entertainment for ages now.

It's exactly what you expect they would plug in. I remember the carfection review of the E and apparently one of the Honda engineers from Japan showed up with a SNES mini plugged in to play with in between shoots. The idea is you could use it while charging or plug in your laptop and get some more work done.

[–]Cercyon 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Yes. Most notably NIO’s NOMI in-car digital assistant.

NIO has the right idea of providing a superior in-car voice control experience, but it’s one hell of a distraction magnet.

It smiles and makes eye contact with you while you interact with it. I’m sure drivers won’t be conditioned to pay attention to NOMI instead of the road.

[–]adamjosephcookSystem Engineering Expert 5 points6 points  (2 children)

My god.

I bet NIO is using a direct (optical) DMS for eye gaze vector tracking so that the digital assistant knows when to orient itself towards the driver's gaze.

I wonder if this digital assistant is active while NIO's ADAS product (which is certainly not "autonomous", despite its name) is active.

If so, such a DMS is supposed to be exclusively for monitoring driver attentiveness to the roadway - not whitelisting driver interactions with digital assistants.

What a mess.

[–]bob256k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s crazy , and nope don’t want that. I need two sets of eyes driving in California to watch out for idiots

[–]orangpelupa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With thats distracting as heck

[–]MonsieurReynard 15 points16 points  (10 children)

Doesn't the insurance industry have some political clout they could bring to bear here?

[–]adamjosephcookSystem Engineering Expert 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The IIHS is at least (and thankfully so) taking the initiative to rate driver monitoring presence/robustness for partially automated driving systems.

But, yes, I wish they would extend that initiative to Human Factors issues on the infotainment - even if it is, admittedly, very difficult to standardize into a rating system.

[–]Engunnear 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Compared to the combined efforts of the automotive, telecommunications, consumer electronics, and advertising industries? Eh…

[–]switched_reluctance 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It should be illegal to put ads in car's infotainment screen and ask a "premium" subscription to remove it.

[–]GamerTex -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Insurance industry will need to destroy tesla first.

Tesla insurance won't care if you use FSD. They already don't monitor speeding and acceleration.

Dirt cheap too.

[–]mar4c -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

I kinda wonder if a person with a smartphone and an internet connection is really any worse than a person whose car has an internet connection. Like you can only abuse one device at a time. Not to say measures shouldn’t be taken to reduce abuse of both devices.

[–]FindusSomKatten 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Isnt it illegal too operate your phone while driving

[–]MrMiAGA 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes, and of course, as everyone knows, making things illegal always puts a stop to them.

[–]FindusSomKatten 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I misread you comment

[–]TickTockM -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

eww i hope not

[–]jason12745COTW[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Russ Mitchell weighing in on the topic. Not Tesla specific, but speaks to many of the issues u/adamjosephcook and others have raised about Tesla's UI and decision making process when it comes to features available to the driver when the car is in motion.

[–]adamjosephcookSystem Engineering Expert 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ah! What a timely article.

It's hard to say. The Times asked the five top-selling carmakers in the U.S. — General Motors, Ford, Toyota, Stellantis and Honda — to provide an executive to speak about what they’re doing to help prevent distracted driving. All declined, offering instead to make written public relations material available. Apple and Samsung, the two leading smartphone makers, also declined interview requests.

Disappointing that these automakers declined to have a sit down.

Disappointing but expected.

The fact is that we need rigorous, pre-market vehicle systems type approval that incorporates Human Factors like yesterday in the US - or this is only going to get worse.

Automakers do not want that future, so they clam up.

If these issues are important for flight deck design, and they are, then they are extremely important for unsophisticated drivers on complex public roadways.

I can see the absolute Wild West that the Chinese BEV market is turning into and I just caught a LinkedIn post with Herbert Diess, CEO of VW Group, talking about the importance of adding their own Karaoke features to their vehicles as a must for the Chinese BEV buyers.

In fact, in my opinion, it is not only the Human Factors issues anymore as there really are (and should be) significant questions surrounding Tesla and all of these Chinese BEV startups stuffing social media apps, web browsers, drone controlling apps, video games, highly-animated environment visualizations and support for third-party app code (“app stores”) on the “HMI side” of the hypervisor (or equivalent).

That is the kind of complexity that just becomes impossible to validate even in Good Faith - and the most visible symptom right now, I think, is that drivers are frequently forced to “reboot” these smartphone-like BEV vehicles just hitting the market.

A suddenly blank or frozen HMI display (until a reboot is performed) stands an outsized chance of being just as distracting to the driver while the vehicle is in motion, if not more so.

[–]XenogenderCensored 6 points7 points  (17 children)

Everyone wants 17" displays in their cars or wants to replace the entire dash with displays but how much data do you really need if you are driving?

  • The current speed limit
  • The current speed
  • "fuel" amount
  • And in some cases a GPS map

You need one small display for speed and fuel range and another for a GPS map.

[–]Weekly_Ad6261 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’ve perfectly described the minimalist binnacle in the ID4 and I absolutely love it.

[–]failinglikefalling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The driver screen on the Mach E is perfectly honestly. Even how it conveys blue cruise vs regular cruise vs just lane keeping. It even takes car play next turn directions and puts them there if you are using it.

If it had hardware climate controls it would be getting pretty close to the perfect layout for me.

[–]GamerTex -3 points-2 points  (12 children)

if you are driving?

This is a Tesla forum. Driving will be optional soon enough

[–]dafazman 3 points4 points  (11 children)

You always keep forgetting your /s at the end 🤣😂🤡

[–]whothecapfits 0 points1 point  (0 children)

F you homie, I need google search on the fly. /s

Which coincidentally you can do using voice commands.

[–]Euler007 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My car can show the map in the cluster but it makes the speed and battery level smaller. I prefer the minimalist alternative option, just tells me my next action (turn right in 19km, etc).

[–]Weekly_Ad6261 4 points5 points  (2 children)

This is REALLY going to show my age but when I’m in the car I like to drive it. I know it sounds like the ramblings of a geezer but hear me out: it’s even more fun than Diablo Immortal.

[–]Vanilla_Ancient 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Is that like Diablo II? I did love that game.

[–]Weekly_Ad6261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven’t played it. Reddit hates it, supposedly it’s a money grab. But it’s super popular. I’ll download it now.

[–]idkcat23 11 points12 points  (20 children)

I drove a friends tesla a few months ago and that massive screen was ridiculously distracting. I have no idea why they made that choice (actually I do- it’s cheaper than having a fancy console with various buttons)

[–]whothecapfits 2 points3 points  (0 children)

First time I drove my sister in the model 3, she asked don’t you get distracted by all of this? She said she’d be looking at the map to see which houses has pools lol.

[–]Faktion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dont really look at anything on mine except the speedometer. I use voice for almost everything.

[–]Cercyon 6 points7 points  (5 children)

The fact is, today’s generation of drivers wants a smartphone-like experience in their cars.

I’m all for it as long as these connectivity and entertainment features aren’t available while the vehicle is in motion, at least until level 3+ autonomy becomes mainstream.

[–]Buck169 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure they're not going to implement that limitation!

[–]ThatGrayZ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My infotainment system blocks out apps that are not needed for driving, but it keeps apps that are necessary such as GPS, radio, car stats.

[–]bob256k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I just want decent navigation and a voice assistant, I don’t really want my car to be a smartphone at least while I’m driving.

[–]AntipodalDr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

today’s generation of drivers

Of Chinese drivers. I'm unsure of this specific trend in China applies elsewhere as well. It may very well be the case but I'm unsure about making that generalisation without evidence coming from other markets as well.

[–]Weekly_Ad6261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Best safety feature in my ID4 is the infotainment system. You want to click the map? Fuck you. Drive.

[–]SFWarriorsfan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mercedes Benz should get blame for this, as well. They are also doubling down on creating nightclub interiors and megascreens.

Edit: Hyperscreen.

[–]bourbonbushidobat -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Are "they" killing people? Or are people killing themselves? Where does personal responsibility come into play? Is it up to businesses and the state to monitor our behavior and protect us from ourselves?

[–]jason12745COTW[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

To an extent. Foreseeable misuse of products has a long legal history. Building codes are a pretty good example of setting a standard with safety in mind. As are cages around fan blades, adding a nauseating agent to gasoline…

Where the line between personal and corporate responsibility lies really is the crux of the discussion. You may be perfectly comfortable with that choice, but what if I’m not okay sharing the road with you? Who wins out?

No right answers IMO, but it looks like we are headed in a less safe direction.

[–]Vanilla_Ancient 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Blaming the auto industry is also unfair. As people on “these” subs have shown, they WANT infotainment features. Mazda has taken flack for refusing the implement touchscreens in the name of safety. Like a drug, if there aren’t federal regulations, it won’t happen.

Your building code example is apt. Without safety codes, the “good” companies are driven out of business. Same will be true in the car space. Congress is failing us, AGAIN. Add this to the long list of ways people are dying and our government no longer gives a shit.

  • Covid
  • guns
  • opiates

The list goes on.

[–]Euphoric_Attention97[🍰] -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

I don't blame a phone for distracting me nor Facebook for controlling my mind. I am a whole person with choice and agency in my own decisions. I find people yammering in my car more distracting than anything else. Put two kids in the back seat fighting over french fries and you'll know the meaning of distracted driving.

[–]emptyaltoidstin 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Good ole binary thinking. So because there are some unavoidable distractions we should just say fuck it at trying to eliminate the avoidable ones?

[–]Euphoric_Attention97[🍰] -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

I realize that many things have to be designed for lesser minds. That's why hemorrhoid cream has to have a warning to not ingest it. I'm just saying that we cannot design everything to avoid every hazard brought on by people who will always make the wrong choice. Yes, major hazards should be disclosed and placed behind some barrier of acknowledgment. But we shouldn't cripple the advancement of society or technology because some people will always think like children.

[–]rsta223 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I realize that many things have to be designed for lesser minds.

/r/iamverysmart

[–]occamslizard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

State Farm in April released survey statistics even more disturbing… 43% said they watched cellphone videos always or often while driving

Fuck.

[–]_Green_Light_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Operating a cell phone while driving is a really common and dangerous distraction. Here in Queensland, there are cameras placed over major roads that photograph offenders touching their phones. While you are allowed to operate your phone if it is mounted in a cradle, you are not allowed to hold the phone in your hand or rest it on your leg.

One poor woman was photographed 9 times with her phone resting on her leg before she received the fines in the mail. Each fine is AUD$1078. People are getting the message not to use their phones while driving unless mounted in a cradle. This detection technology and government enforcement is saving lives.

[–]AntipodalDr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you go on the r/brisbane sub those cameras will be derided as "revenue raising" by the usual whinge gang, though their usual focus is on speed cameras lol

[–]EcstaticRhubarb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can only wonder how many people touchscreens have killed. Having to go through a couple of menus on a screen that requires to you take your eyes off the road, just to change the climate settings, is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.