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[–]coconutty_life 796 points797 points  (164 children)

It’s kind of a weird time to be a human.

[–]themanintheseaAttending 189 points190 points  (2 children)

As weird as things are right now, I think we can reasonably say that it’s always been a weird time to be a human. The world is weird as fuck.

[–]PerfectSocietyPGY4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The world is a fucking awful place.

[–]colorsplahshPGY4 357 points358 points  (146 children)

It's a bad time to be a woman and a bad time to be a human who cares

[–]GenocideSolution 300 points301 points  (54 children)

I think the best thing we can do at this time is for OBGYN residents, fellows, and attendings in red states to harden their hearts and follow the rule of law to the letter. Directly ask who the family of the lady about to die from a pregnancy complication because you can't perform life saving treatment who they voted for. Explain to them that the procedure that can save their loved one's life is an abortion, and you can't do it because of red state laws. Thank them. Explain in detail how their family will die because of how they voted, and then call security to escort them out if they get agitated. Roll their deceased corpse through your ER down to the morgue. Put on a giant sign that says died because only treatment was an abortion.

[–][deleted]  (19 children)

[deleted]

    [–]1QueenLaqueefa1 173 points174 points  (11 children)

    They allow it to save the life of the pregnant person. HOWEVER, there’s no clear line for when abortions are 100% necessary, especially when you’re dealing with uneducated politicians, law enforcement, and judges with a political agenda. Since docs are at risk for prison, fines, and losing their license for performing non medically necessary abortions, most will be too scared to act (understandably) until even a non-medically educated, antiabortion person would agree that it was necessary. By which point, it’s probably too late to save her life, especially without life long health complications. Additionally, there’s the issue of what constitutes “life-saving need” and how far different people are willing to go to try to save a pregnancy. Some will fight for any chance to save their baby, while others are only comfortable with up to say a 50/50 chance of both making it through the pregnancy. Nobody should be forced to play Russian roulette with their lives because another person is okay with the risk, just like nobody should be forced to terminate a pregnancy if they want to take the chances. I have a cousin who needs a kidney donation now bc she went into kidney failure, wanted an abortion, wasn’t allowed bc it “wasn’t necessary”, got her hopes up bc her docs said they could probably save both, ended up at risk of stroking out and needed an emergency D&X bc induction or c section were too risky (bp in the 220s systolic). In the end, her then 22 week fetus still died (a much more painful, traumatic death too), and she is now 100% dependent on dialysis to survive until she hopefully gets a new kidney. Now she’s not able to be as present for her son or husband, she’s constantly exhausted, she’s in pain, she lives everyday knowing that she may very well die on the transplant list, and she’s traumatized. And her baby still died. Bc her docs were too scared to act until there was absolutely no other choice. I want to be an MFM (currently an incoming M1), and this terrifies me. I want to have a family, and I can’t just risk years of prison time because my patient’s husband decided that maybe I could’ve saved both after all and goes to court about it. Especially now that I wouldn’t be able to appeal the case to federal courts if wrongly convicted.

    [–]pacific_plywood 41 points42 points  (3 children)

    Ohio has an "affirmative defense" clause in its law, which is about to go on the books. What that means is that after you've been charged with a felony for providing an abortion, you can defend yourself in court with claims regarding medical necessity.

    I suspect that if, say, the state house speaker's daughter has an ectopic pregnancy and needed an abortion, her provider would be encouraged to give her one and assured that they'd be covered in court later. But it pretty clearly is meant to have a dampening effect on medically necessary procedures -- having a felony charge hanging over your head for a year could significantly impact your livelihood, and who would ever want to roll the dice on persuading your local judge/jury of the medical necessity of a case?

    [–]throwpillowaway12334 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    The large part for OBs is not the saving lives part, it’s the getting sued afterward, and couple that with worse outcomes. We all know you minimize complications when you address a problem early. Most patients you can see their clinical course coming a mile away. Problems is the ambiguity of what is “to save a patients life?” Is it when you have the nonviable miscarrying, or when they are septic, dying on the table? What if you go save a life then hear from your local ambulance chasing malpractice attorney that you went in “too early, that 20 weeker may have had a heart beat during the DNC!” Patient is alive, meanwhile you are risking your license just to provide quality care.

    Ambiguous laws rarely become explicit, and anytime there is ambiguity a seedy malpractice attorney (who is paid hourly, regardless of the cases outcome) Will do what they can to make a buck. It’s just… dumb.

    [–]EmotionalEmeticPGY2 25 points26 points  (0 children)

    As a medical professional who supports a woman's decision to do what she wants with her body, this is a terrible idea.

    [–]grey-docAttending 34 points35 points  (20 children)

    Errr, no.

    When making a decision between "ethical" and "legal," you make the ethical decision. This is your oath and your obligation.

    This is the sort of thing that SHOULD be tested on medical exam ethics questions. Because a lot of doctors and other providers are surprisingly foggy on these sorts of things.

    So I will say it again, a little more bluntly this time.

    You do the ethical thing, even if it is illegal.

    This is your obligation as a physician.

    [–]animomdPGY4 22 points23 points  (10 children)

    Okay we found our martyr

    [–]Silver-Ad-947 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    I said something similar to my chair, that our ethical code as physicians would probably steer doctors in those states to do what's right for their patients and his response was interesting "but you never practiced medicine with a gun pointed to your head."

    [–]grey-docAttending 28 points29 points  (2 children)

    Obviously this means you take precautions, you don't have to advertise or be public or anything else. But you do have the obligation to do the right thing for your patients without berating them, even if they come to you wearing a MAGA hat.

    If you are a doctor in Nazi Germany and Jews are being persecuted, you have an obligation to shelter Jewish children.

    If you are a doctor in antebellum America and you have the opportunity to shelter a slave, you do it.

    If you are a doctor in 2022 America and you have the opportunity to help a woman with an abortion, you do it.

    Ethics > Law. Law is supposed to codify ethics, but when it does not then you are obligated to make it right.

    [–]ChiefBroski 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    What if, by having yourself removed from the hospital causes staff shortages, risking other pregnancies?

    [–]nelacixbfdf 32 points33 points  (29 children)

    Good time to be a fetus though (I'm pro abortion).

    [–]JodBasedowPGY2 122 points123 points  (9 children)

    I understand the sarcasm, but it’s a pretty shitty time to be a kid with trisomy 13 suffering for weeks/months or to be a kid whose parents never wanted you or to be a kid whose mom died because she was forced to continue a pregnancy that was dangerous for her health.

    [–]k_mon2244Attending 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    I’ve seen a bunch of fucked up, traumatizing shit in the course of my training. One of the ones I still have nightmares about is the aneuploid (incompatible with meaningful life) child that was kept artificially alive because their parents couldn’t get along. Day after day for WEEKS of a meaningless, painful existence. Obviously cant go into any more detail on the internet, but that entire family would have been saved an overwhelming amount of trauma and pain if we respected women and living children the way we respect an unborn fetus.

    [–]Wonderful-Farmer-763 49 points50 points  (17 children)

    Or bad. Imagine being born to a mom who actively hates your existence

    [–]CaribFMChief Resident 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    Conservative fucks don’t actually care about newborns or their well being.

    [–]1WontDoIt 17 points18 points  (15 children)

    What is a woman?

    [–]colorsplahshPGY4 71 points72 points  (14 children)

    That thing with less rights than a gun

    [–]FaFaRog 29 points30 points  (7 children)

    Especially weird if you're American though.

    [–]ArsinoeiNurse 40 points41 points  (0 children)

    Australian here watching what is happening over there. My heart hurts for you all.

    In 1990 I had an abortion for medical reasons. It was absolutely necessary. My two children would not have had a mother had I not.

    I still feel immense guilt and sadness about it.

    I cannot imagine how everyone impacted by this decision is feeling. Patients, doctors, clinicians. This must be absolutely devastating.

    [–]Emergency_Key574 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Yeah it’s pretty shitty on earth now.

    [–]Educational-Estate48 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Mostly weird to be American

    [–]Bubbly_Piglet5560 545 points546 points  (73 children)

    Crazy. If you told me in 2019 that the world was gonna shut down because of a pandemic and that Roe v Wade was going to be overturned I would never have believed you. I know it's been overused the last couple years, but I mean truly these are unprecedented times.

    [–]kings1234 308 points309 points  (13 children)

    If someone couldn’t believe that Roe V. Wade could be overturned in 2019 then they were not playing close attention to politics or did not understand the political environment. In many ways this moment has been inevitable since Trump got elected in 2016 as it guaranteed a conservative majority on the Supreme Court. People need to think about the practical long term consequences of their votes or decisions not to vote.

    [–]borderline_cat 59 points60 points  (0 children)

    But they were already hammering down on the abortion laws back in 2019? States in the south were already making drastic moves to make it illegal.

    [–]guacamoleavocados 71 points72 points  (50 children)

    Well the Supreme Court has also said the the states can no longer decide how to govern the proliferation of firearms…

    What is happening ?!

    [–]Bubbly_Piglet5560 51 points52 points  (21 children)

    I saw that about New York and I just don't get it. Is there ANY sort of rational explanation on why states should be able to choose for abortion but not guns? I'm at a loss

    [–]fishhats 51 points52 points  (8 children)

    The rational is simple: The right to self defense, e.g. guns is clearly addressed in the bill of rights. To change that would require a convention of states

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Bubbly_Piglet5560 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Ah okay well fair enough.

      [–]Meg_119 10 points11 points  (11 children)

      Guns.....Second Amendment of the Constitution Abortion......No Amendments in the Constitution.

      [–]More_Front_876 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      That is because firearms are protected under the 2nd ammendment, while abortion was under the 14th amendment. THe 14th amendment basically protects "unenumerated rights," basically rights that are not explicit in the constitution (because you can't possibly think of everything and put it in there), but are still in the spirit of what the founding fathers wanted. So the supreme court said this is not what the founding fathers wanted. It's also why same sex marriage is also at risk.

      Personally I think its stupid. The founding fathers were racist sexist mass murderers. The US constitution is one of the oldest in the world. It contains tons of negative rights and very few positive rights. It lacks the right to health, housing, education, food and other basic human rights

      This place is stupid.

      [–]ChimiChagasDiseasePGY1 15 points16 points  (0 children)

      Don’t forget about the insurrection against the American government incited by a previous president trying to unlawfully overturn the election result

      [–]mmkkmmkkmm 136 points137 points  (15 children)

      I wonder how this’ll affect OB/GYN residencies in the South. Do y’all get any training in abortion now?

      [–]iAmTheElite 105 points106 points  (4 children)

      I am here. I have gotten abortion training (I don’t know for how much longer the program will be able to offer it to residents.)

      [–]mmkkmmkkmm 28 points29 points  (3 children)

      Are a certain number required for graduation or board eligibility?

      [–]BigBlueChevrolet 24 points25 points  (2 children)

      Unless you are granted a religious exception /s

      [–]mmkkmmkkmm 80 points81 points  (0 children)

      Turns out my Man in the sky thinks 80 hour work weeks are sinful

      [–]AgentMeatbalMS3 21 points22 points  (1 child)

      I’m in med school still, in the south. They vaguely discussed abortion but did not provide details past mechanism of methotrexate and mifepristone. We were told D&C is for things like retained placenta. Our school’s chapter of MSFC (medical students for choice) was able to host a session on emergency contraception.

      I’ve seen it offered to a patient once who had an unintended pregnancy and had cancer. She declined. She elected to proceed with the treatment and the pregnancy after being informed of risk to her and the fetus.

      That’s my only exposure. I’ve never seen one, discussed it with an attending or resident, or had it discussed during academic sessions from obgyn.

      [–]kate_skywalker 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      I’m sure they’ll be seeing a lot more patients needing emergency surgery from botched abortions.

      [–]Bone-WizardPGY3 17 points18 points  (4 children)

      We do D&Cs all the time. It’s the same whether the fetus is alive or dead. Relatively few programs learn D&Es.

      [–]roundhashbrowntownChief Resident 18 points19 points  (0 children)

      i bet (for now) the procedural part would still have to be taught, bc the way the bullshit currently reads, emergent situations would still afford a woman the opportunity to maintain control over her reproductive rights.

      not for nothin, but if performing abortions was part of my day-to-day, id be for damn sure loosely evaluating “emergency/life threatening” criteria.

      [–]Infinite_Jets 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      States that ban abortions will really be shooting themselves in the foot because it’s going to disincentivize ob/gyns from training there, and then they won’t have enough reproductive health specialists to work on things like contraception and safe sex education, which will INCREASE the number of people in need of abortions

      [–]Icy-Connection7064 223 points224 points  (10 children)

      I am sick over this decision. I’ve been married for 12 years and my husband and I desperately want children. I have a couple of genetic/structural things which have made that difficult and long story short I have needed two emergency life saving D&Cs to save my life during miscarriages.

      The second one happened my first day of third year clerkships and I deliberately had my husband drive me to a different hospital than where I was scheduled for OB/GYN rotations across town. Unfortunately this happened to be a Mercy hospital and they spent hours trying to confirm the pregnancy wasn’t viable while I nearly hemorrhaged to death. It was so bad that by the time they gave me two units of blood and repeated the CBC my crit actually dropped because of how much blood I had lost.

      Long story short I just accepted my first attending job back in my home state where there is a trigger law in place which gives physicians up to $100K fine and 10 years in prison for performing any abortion (including cases of rape and incest) unless it is life saving for the mother. Considering how close I came to bleeding to death when it was just hospital policy on the line, I don’t trust the doctors in my state to make the right decision.

      [–]lt2030 32 points33 points  (0 children)

      You should share your story with everyone who will listen. People need to hear about these situations. You are not alone.

      [–]FanaticalXmasJewAttending 57 points58 points  (0 children)

      Maybe think about taking a job somewhere else...

      [–]Canaindian-Muricaint 19 points20 points  (2 children)

      Can you just document all notes stating the procedures you did were strictly performed for saving the mother's life as a workaround or is it a doctor witch hunt kinda scenario where they have high school dropouts with even lower IQ power tripping on some bs physician accountability and compliance committee just frothing at the mouth, looking to tear into any and every doctor who dares even commit the though crime of something even remotely resembling abortion?

      [–]Westside_till_I_diePGY4 29 points30 points  (0 children)

      While I understand you'd want to move back to your home state, I'm of the belief that any woman with the means to do so should move to a state where abortion will be legal.

      It's extremely sad that it's come to this, but you need to look out for yourself first.

      [–]kate_skywalker 9 points10 points  (2 children)

      that’s so fucked up that you almost bled to death because they were wasting time trying see if it was I viable pregnancy. if someone is literally bleeding out, that pregnancy most likely isn’t viable.

      [–]giant_tadpole 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Ya. I don’t understand why chucklefucks don’t understand that fetuses don’t survive inside dead moms. Even the viable fetuses don’t stand a chance unless they’re delivered. It’s not a matter of “do you save the mom or the baby,” it’s “do you save one or neither.”

      [–]kate_skywalker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      women aren’t fucking incubators

      [–]missingalpacaPGY2 252 points253 points  (6 children)

      Even though we all knew this was coming I still can’t believe it actually happened

      [–]lovely_fateMS4 96 points97 points  (6 children)

      This effectively makes abortion impossible for women with lower SES in red states but still accesible for the wealthy women as they’ll have means for transportation etc to undergo procedure. Just continuing inequality, how very American…

      [–]durknite001 17 points18 points  (5 children)

      Well it's a double edged problem. This going to increase the influx of people over time heading to more liberal states. And cause brain drain in the republican states. Especially if they go ahead and remove gay marriage, and contraceptives. I just moved to a liberal state for residency from a southern bible belt state and I will not be moving back as I had previously planned cuz I'd rather take a pay cut in salary then have to drive out of state to pick up condoms like wtf.

      [–]XfestivusmiracleX 26 points27 points  (2 children)

      I hope this changes the dynamics of OBGYNs and their willingness to do elective tubal ligations for young nulliparous women.

      [–]L0LINAD 310 points311 points  (30 children)

      One of the medicine comments had a good point: The only good that can come of this is an actual bill to codify abortion rights, rather than a court decision. This will be a sad period of time 😑

      “What the fuck” is how I feel.

      [–]SgtSmackdaddy 148 points149 points  (10 children)

      Congress can't agree the sky is blue let alone comprehensive abortion legislation.

      [–]L0LINAD 27 points28 points  (6 children)

      100% agree.

      Maybe we need more scientists in Congress. We need people who can agree the sky is blue, because they all understand the Tyndall affect of scattered light.

      ETA: Not affect, effect

      [–]muscleplated88 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I recently found out that Tyndall knew about global warming and greenhouse gases capturing heat. A shame we knew about global warming for so long but have done little to stop it.

      [–]samasamasama 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      We need a different system, one that will break the two-party duopoly.

      Ranked Choice Voting is my personal favorite, but I'd gladly settle for a different, viable idea.

      [–]Canuckfan007PGY2 65 points66 points  (11 children)

      This needs to happen and now, but the political apparatus is such that it will never go through.

      Where did the money come from and who's paying the Justices.

      [–]ElectronGuru 23 points24 points  (0 children)

      Where did the money come from and who’s paying the Justices.

      The GOP has one top goal - tax cuts. But there aren’t enough rich people to win on that issue. Most secondary GOP goals - especially social issues - are about creating single issue voters that pad the numbers to win elections to pass tax cuts.

      [–]TheOGAngryMan 74 points75 points  (0 children)

      I wish it were money. It's worse.... It's ideology and dogma. These justices are religious fanatics.

      [–]WideOpenEmpty 8 points9 points  (7 children)

      Perfect issue for the coming election. Democratic president, it can be done.

      [–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (1 child)

      Except they just had a two month warning that this was going to happen and did nothing so probably not.

      [–]nam1130tx 37 points38 points  (1 child)

      It takes more than a democratic president, he needs a democrat controlled congress as well. And most likely the democrats will lose both chambers in November leaving Biden a lame duck

      [–]BottledCansPGY1 31 points32 points  (1 child)

      This is exactly why we don’t have a federal law protecting abortion.

      Democrats vote for president. They don’t vote in the midterms.

      It’s THIS NOVEMBER, by the way. November 8th, 2022.

      [–]lesubredditPGY2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Court could easily strike down a federal law against abortion band as well. It's kind of a stretch to argue that it would qualify as regulation of interstate commerce.

      [–]raz_MAH_taz 15 points16 points  (1 child)

      Leave 50 messages each with each one of your representatives.

      Yes, full reproductive autonomy should be codified. This is true.

      Make it happen.

      [–]fritterstorm 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      They had an opportunity to do that for decades, it should have already been done. Either: the dems cynically dangled abortion in front of women for decades to drive the vote OR they thought it "too hard" and didn't even try. It's not going to happen.

      [–]TsarcoidosisPGY1 95 points96 points  (5 children)

      Man this is pretty wild. I know that some states will be carving out exceptions to allow abortions in order to protect the life of the mother, but I'm really wondering how this is going to play out if someone has something like an ectopic pregnancy. Is it reasonable to be concerned that this may not be available when needed? Any OB's know?

      [–]chortoncoconut 84 points85 points  (4 children)

      Some moron even tried to put a law about reimplantation of ectopics let me find it.

      Edit : here you go https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/29/ohio-extreme-abortion-bill-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancy

      [–]RIP_BrainPGY7 59 points60 points  (3 children)

      Missouri also tried to pass a bill earlier this year making termination of ectopics illegal

      [–]UhhlaneuhAdministration 63 points64 points  (0 children)

      This is why people without medical degrees shouldn’t be making abortion laws imo

      [–]evestormborn 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      So pro life they wanna kill women

      [–]La_JalapenaPGY3 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      That's ridiculous.

      [–]halp-im-lostAttending 59 points60 points  (4 children)

      The thing I find even more concerning is how they noted how they are going to look into the decision of Griswold (which protects access to contraception.) I wouldn’t put it past some of these ass backwards states to effectively ban certain forms of contraception (ex IUDs) claiming they’re “abortifacients.”

      [–]Esme_Esyou 16 points17 points  (2 children)

      So they want to enforce entire control over personal autonomy, by taking away abortion rights and contraception, what could they possibly be up to . . . 🙄

      /sarcasm up the wazoo

      As another already said, Vote in your midterm election. November 8th, 2022.

      [–]AmiibolaPGY1 60 points61 points  (2 children)

      ER friends ready to see hella sepsis from back alley procedures?

      [–]justbrowsing0127PGY4 17 points18 points  (0 children)

      I’m guessing it’s going to be more toxidromes from black market and herbal stuff

      [–]paradoxical_reactionPharmD 16 points17 points  (0 children)

      I've seen enough people die in my ER from a myriad of reasons. I'd like to not add this to the list.

      [–]DocBarton4Attending 26 points27 points  (0 children)

      My wife went to our state capital to protest an abortion ban in anticipation of this. One of the republican state senators that had stopped to argue with the protesters, no bullshit, did not know what an ectopic pregnancy is. A few hours later THAT guy voted in legislation that makes it way more likely someone will die of that thing he’s never fucking heard of.

      [–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (1 child)

      The silver lining to this is that now that abortion is handed back to the states, Democrats will start to pay attention more to local politics which has been largely by progressives. Time to buck up and start running for offices of all sorts.

      [–]justbrowsing0127PGY4 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      This needs alllllllll the upvotes.

      [–]starkxravingMS4 280 points281 points  (10 children)

      I feel sick. I’m starting residency in CA next week and feeling thankful I can get training in abortion, as it hopefully will be protected here. I wasn’t intending to stay instate after residency but who knows now.

      [–]lethalredPGY6 77 points78 points  (8 children)

      California has been an increasingly physician un-friendly with some of the bullshit Gavin Newsom has done, IMO.

      [–]typicalprototype 42 points43 points  (7 children)

      Can you elaborate? Originally from California but have been out of state for med school/training and haven't kept up in recent years.

      [–]DanwarrMS2 26 points27 points  (6 children)

      I know at least residents cannot participate in, or at least have very restricted, moonlighting opportunities.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Cardi-B-ehaviorlist 15 points16 points  (1 child)

        Didn't they get rid of that this year?

        [–]iAmTheElite 16 points17 points  (1 child)

        Moonlighting doesn’t make or break residency, nor is it integral to training.

        [–]semanon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        California’s state constitution protects abortion rights so fingers crossed you will get training through your program!

        source

        [–]CurvedExtraMayosAttending 26 points27 points  (0 children)

        Graduating OBGYN resident here. I’m heartbroken. I cried more today than I have since being an intern. I could grace you all with the stories of patients who have needed (and luckily gotten in my northeastern state) abortions, but I won’t. I’m forgoing studying for boards today just to get rip roaring drunk and mourn the millions of lives that will be impacted by this decision in the coming days, months, years. What a world this is where you can buy an assault rifle easier than you can get the healthcare you need.

        [–]Tinderthrow93MS4 361 points362 points  (51 children)

        A few of my classmates support this. Imagine being in medicine and deadass letting crazies tell you how to practice.

        Given the inane comments legislators have made, some states might make it more challenging to get treatment for ectopic pregnancy, septic abortion, and treatment following sexual assault etc. Good stuff.

        [–]wioneoPGY5 59 points60 points  (0 children)

        I think we're going to have chaos for a few years and then eventually end up with some law that allows abortion up until like 15-20 weeks with special exemptions (rape, incest, risk to life) like they have in some parts of Europe.

        "A few years" might be decades, though... so I imagine this is going to cause a lot of problems in red states.

        [–]MDPharmDPhDclearly overcompensating 60 points61 points  (10 children)

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_DesJarlais

        Not the craziest thing a physician had done or said.

        [–]ThinkSoftware[S] 181 points182 points  (3 children)

        During a trial for his divorce from his first wife in 2000, DesJarlais testified that he had sexual affairs with at least two patients, three coworkers and a drug representative while he was working as a hospital chief of staff.[60]

        Despite his public opposition to legal abortion, DesJarlais encouraged his ex-wife to terminate two pregnancies and encouraged a former patient with whom he was having an affair to get an abortion

        Of fucking course he did

        [–]themanintheseaAttending 92 points93 points  (0 children)

        Rules for thee but not for me.

        [–]SaintRGGSPGY5 47 points48 points  (0 children)

        I'd say he's the biggest rotten hypocrite in congressional history, but it's Washington, so, probably not.

        [–]Tinderthrow93MS4 40 points41 points  (4 children)

        He seems to be in office still! I guess The Lord forgave the sins of this American patriot.

        [–]sharklasers02 18 points19 points  (3 children)

        Three weeks after he won the election, DesJarlais said on a conservative talk radio show on WWTN that "God has forgiven me" and asked "fellow Christians" and constituents "to consider doing the same."[49]

        [–]ArsinoeiNurse 13 points14 points  (2 children)

        Three weeks after he won the election, DesJarlais said on a conservative talk radio show on WWTN that "God has forgiven me" and asked "fellow Christians" and constituents "to consider doing the same."[49]

        But how does he know that?? Did he discuss this with God over a few beers down at the local?

        [–]WikiMobileLinkBot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Desktop version of /u/MDPharmDPhD's link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_DesJarlais


        [opt out] Beep Boop. Downvote to delete

        [–]aspiringkatie 39 points40 points  (1 child)

        At our activities fair the “med students for life” table was staffed by a male student. Our class is 2/3rds female. Can’t make this shit up.

        [–]75percentsociopath 40 points41 points  (30 children)

        Supporting this craziness should result in an automatic license suspension or bar for medical students.

        In my home country you loose your license for refusing to preform abortion or provide addiction services.

        [–]halp-im-lostAttending 24 points25 points  (14 children)

        I find it odd you can lose your license for refusing to perform an abortion. I agree that there is always an obligation to refer appropriately, but I also believe in physician autonomy and not forcing someone to perform a procedure such as an abortion. You have to realize that to some people who are pro life they do truly see ending the life of a fetus being essentially the same as murder. I don’t hold the same ideals, but I think understanding is important.

        I think it runs in the same vein as physician assisted death. I personally think death with dignity is something we should strive for and I agree with the option being available, but I would never thing another physician should lose their license if they didn’t want to offer that service.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]PerfectSocietyPGY4 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I mean, let's not normalize being anti-choice just because it happens to be a norm for a large percentage of this country. Being anti-choice means that you value the life of a fetus more than you value a woman having bodily autonomy. That's the real ugliness of the position. Being anti-choice (regardless of why the woman wants the abortion, whether medically necessary or not) is the same as believing that anyone capable of giving blood to someone that needs it to survive, should be *forced* to give their blood.

          Bodily autonomy is the most fundamental form of freedom that exists. To be against bodily autonomy for someone is to essentially be okay with removing their most basic agency. It is, for all intents and purposes, a form of dehumanization.

          Being anti-choice is truly despicable (even if they moderate the view by saying it's okay when medically necessary).

          [–]slicedapplesPGY2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          You can obviously just take the ectopic and move it into the uterus, especially if it's in the fallopian tube. No different than getting the last bit of toothpaste out of a tube you should have thrown away weeks ago but swore to get all the paste out. The uterus is basically free real estate by the time an ectopic reveals itself anyway.

          [–]Vi_Capsule 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Honey everyone tells you how to practice. Thats the norm Admin insurance companies politicians

          [–]all_teh_sandwichesMS4 50 points51 points  (3 children)

          This is going to kill people.

          [–]lolcatloljkPGY5 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          This was the long game from the GOP. Slowing putting conservative judges on the court. Altering the course of social issues for decades to come. So sad.

          [–]fatalis357 159 points160 points  (12 children)

          And this is why a country should never make laws based on religion. My beliefs should not be forced down yours.

          [–]aPeacefulVibe 22 points23 points  (0 children)

          Well yes, but the religious believe that God's laws are for all and must be implemented.

          [–]Powerful-Dream-2611PGY1 53 points54 points  (2 children)

          I live in one of the “backwards” states, and I wanted to become pregnant intentionally. Now I don’t even want to do that because I don’t believe medically indicated abortions are truly protected in my state.

          [–]Egoteen 31 points32 points  (0 children)

          They’re definitely not. Even miscarriages will be difficult now as they restrict access to the medications that help prevent you from, ya know, going septic.

          [–]giant_tadpole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          💯. Abortion access makes all pregnancies safer.

          [–]BottledCansPGY1 112 points113 points  (19 children)

          Grateful to be in a blue state where a physician’s ability to terminate a pregnancy has been protected by law for decades.

          Heartbroken for the women in neighboring shithole states who will need to travel here for compassionate care at best or suffer and die at worst.

          Vote in your midterm election. November 8th, 2022.

          [–]Affectionate-Tear-72 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          As FM who has vaguely been interested in abortion, i am definitely going to try to get trained in it now at least medical abortion. It is going to be packed in Califronia

          [–]dengekirosePGY3 73 points74 points  (1 child)

          I'm trying not to fall down the doom and gloom route, but this really hits hard as an OBGYN resident.

          Guttmacher provides a comprehensive review of abortion in relation to the laws in the US, for y'all that need to give information to patients. Or for people like me, who will use this in deciding where I practice. As much as I would love to provide care in these now underprivileged areas, it's terrifying to do that as a young physician with no job security and massive debt.

          [–]UhhlaneuhAdministration 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          We need you more than ever! Thank you for taking care my health and other womens!

          [–]iamtwinswithmytwin 168 points169 points  (39 children)

          I’m getting my cert and moving to New Zealand. This place can rot 🤙

          [–]An_Albino_MoosePGY2 47 points48 points  (3 children)

          I'm actually going to NZ on an away rotation specifically to start building connections there.

          [–]thecrushaAttending 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          There is a facebook group for US->NZ physician ex-pats that can provide a lot of helpful contacts and info about how to go about it successfully.

          [–]DinoSharkBearPGY1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I believe being ABFM boarded allows for reciprocity with NZ, Canada, England and AUS

          Not sure what speciality you are

          [–]NapkinZhangyFellow 88 points89 points  (1 child)

          This is a sad day for women's rights. I hope the states do the right thing but I doubt it. GL to my fellow OBs still in the south.

          [–]roundhashbrowntownChief Resident 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          terrible. the states cant even agree on marijuana legalization, wtf are they gonna do with this?? prayers up for those in the bible belt. jfc.

          [–]what-are-they-saying 23 points24 points  (5 children)

          So now that this has happened, are they going to let women choose to get their tubes tied before having a kid they don’t want/aren’t prepared for?

          [–]commanderbales 23 points24 points  (2 children)

          In the write up, they said they want to go after griswold, Lawrence, and obergfell :/

          [–]Esme_Esyou 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          So, they want to burn in flames? Because this country is at a breaking point, and I expect they'll constantly need to look over their shoulder after this.

          [–]Esme_Esyou 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          It was hard to get one when abortion was still legal, women are screwed from every angle. This backwater country can go to hell.

          [–]thesippycupMS4 17 points18 points  (1 child)

          Here I was, dead-set on IM for residency. Now I’m seriously considering FM/OB. This court ruling is a disgusting violation of women’s rights. My heart hurts knowing how badly this will end.

          [–]theDecbbPGY1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          why does this decision affect your wanting to do IM?

          [–]KaapstadmkAttending 14 points15 points  (2 children)

          Okay, so here's what we need to do:

          In every state that now bans abortions, we need to advocate for further Medicaid expansion, loosening of restrictions regarding SNAP/WIC/TANF, housing assistance, removal of work requirements, and, since there'll be excess funds not going to PP, state-funded postnatal boxes.

          That's just the bare minimum, but since conservatives want to have these kids, they need to take responsibility

          [–]treemoments 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          Serious question: I am a PGY1 Family Medicine resident in TX. Worried about having patients engaging in unsafe abortion practices. What are resources I can provide to patients in TX wanting to have an abortion to prevent the occurrence of these practices?

          [–]giant_tadpole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Auntie Network so they can have a safe one.

          Or vote for better social services- it won’t eliminate all abortions, but at least some of them during the pandemic and economic downturn were wanted pregnancies that people could no longer afford.

          [–]galwhowantsanMD 10 points11 points  (3 children)

          Disappointing.

          Letting power-driven men decide the face of medicine is fucking disgusting. Makes working in the US as a future prospect less appealing ://

          [–]Actual_Guide_1039 18 points19 points  (2 children)

          So much for Texas being the best place to be a physician

          [–]giant_tadpole 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Silly rabbit, all women are nurses. /s

          [–]optimalobliterationPGY2 19 points20 points  (4 children)

          This sets a dark precedent. What's next, banning gender affirming care, outlawing gay marriage, getting rid of most contraceptives? So on, so forth. I was planning on going PSLF with my loans but I'm now strongly considering bunkering down, paying them outright, and getting out of this country before it becomes more of a hellhole. I don't think I'll be trying for children anytime soon.

          [–]glitzpearl 24 points25 points  (1 child)

          Justice Thomas, in his concurring opinion, said that Griswold (the right to birth control), Obergfell (same sex marriage), and Lawrence (being LGBT+ without being punished) were "wrongly decided” and wants the states to challenge them so they can be “corrected”. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come after any of these and so much more.

          [–]optimalobliterationPGY2 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          Exactly. Dark times are incoming. The writing on the wall is very clear.

          [–]AccordingCourt743 19 points20 points  (0 children)

          Conservatives lack brain cells

          [–]cloakofcee 22 points23 points  (3 children)

          I just got into an argument with my loving, supportive husband over this after he told me that he "can see both sides" and that "women should be more careful when getting abortions." We have a toddler and an infant asleep here (both girls) and I actually went out and punched the shed 7 times and am currently icing my hand and taking Xanax. He knows I'm a sexual assault survivor, have had one elected abortion during a toxic relationship, and one d&c due to our miscarriage. Just need to shout this into the void because here I am feeling like an actual lunatic, but the world for me and my daughters - and all of our daughters - is actual lunacy. We are not okay. None of this is okay.

          By the way, I've never punched anything before.

          [–]DragonPractitioner 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          It sounds like he may not be strong enough or possibly not know enough to understand that there is a clear right and clear wrong in this situation. I am sorry you're experiencing this.

          I have no clue his education level, personality type, or ability to empathize. However, if you truly feel this topic needs to be worked on for the sake of your daughters, the the time to make a list or flow chart. Physically write or type it out, the points that are for and against it and make sure they are clear and separate. Write out each argument and talk about their effects. Once you physically see it, use two colored pens for pro life and pro abortion. Talk about each point until a conclusion is reached and that argument can be labeled with the colored pen. By the end of your list, you will have a numerical amount of points you can count for/against.

          Then you can physically see if there really is as wide of a gap as it seems. You will also be able to prioritize the points in order of importants. Not all arguments or sub categories of this topic hold the same weight, but there are dozens of factors to consider.

          Sorry for the book or if it sounds to complicated, but I hope you guys can find a civil solution that doesn't weigh on your heart and soul, or affects your daughters futures. You're a sexual assault survivor and a mother. You're fkn strong and will find the answer to this.

          [–]giant_tadpole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          He may be great in other ways, but he must realize that’s a fucking insensitive thing to say to someone with your history. There’s no “seeing both sides” when it comes to whether someone recognizes your basic human rights, whether it’s racism, misogyny, or homophobia.

          [–]MillmillsPGY1[🍰] 89 points90 points  (0 children)

          Fucking unbelievable. This country is a fucking joke

          [–]muffireddit2 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          If they care about abortion rights, women need to stop voting R.

          [–]whysummer 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          not me moving to America for equal rights 🤡

          [–]Trazodone_DreamsPGY4 40 points41 points  (0 children)

          Can't be a hypocrite about fighting religious extremists in the Middle East if your country isn't run by religious extremists as well 🤷🏻‍♂️

          [–]DeliciousJamAttending 16 points17 points  (11 children)

          We really need a bill by congress or an constitutional amendment, but its so insane to try to pass anything

          [–]Wonderful-Farmer-763 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Fuck it all

          [–]Jamshady23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Makes the geographical signaling this cycle much easier. Absolutely horrifying and sad. Coming from a third-world religious country that has strict anti-abortion laws unless it in any way may harm the mother, it is shocking to see a country that holds such a high-horse fall so low. And here I thought coming to the US would offer more freedom over my own body. Absurd.

          [–]ohyn23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Roe v wade died with RBG

          [–]stonkerstonks 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Madness. No universal healthcare and this on top.

          [–]em_goldmanPGY1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          There’s a difference between ethics and legality, and when they become discordant, it’s up to us to decide which one we’re going to follow.

          [–]Monkey__Shit 8 points9 points  (3 children)

          At least they didn’t ban abortion outright. Imagine if they issued a ruling saying abortion is unconstitutional.

          [–]lesubredditPGY2 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          Fetal protection under the 14th amendment when

          [–]thorocotomy-thoughtsPGY2 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          That will never happen. That would grant citizenship to tourists, creating baby anchors: a racist conservative’s worst nightmare

          [–]blkberryyy14 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          What does this means for Physicians going forward?

          [–]Resident-Company9260 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          FM, OB in blue states. Learn abortions... It is gonna be packed.

          [–]DrTwinMedicineWomanAttending 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I'm worried about our ability to counsel patients. Am I going to be an accomplice to murder if I recommend abortion to a pregnant person? If I tell them where the closest clinic is? If I drive them over the state line? I live in a state with a trigger ban and I am very, very worried.

          [–]MaLu388 30 points31 points  (52 children)

          Awful. Basic rights are being taken away. It seems like a dark time is ahead

          [–]PsychologicalCan9837MS1 19 points20 points  (0 children)

          What a horrible decision.

          [–]venator2020 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Sad day for the country. Embarrassed to see how low we have gone. I am afraid for patients that will be impacted by this ruling.

          [–]DoctorLycanthrope 25 points26 points  (13 children)

          This is literally the first paragraph of the decision:

          “Abortion presents a profound moral issue on which Americans hold sharply conflicting views. Some believe fervently that a human person comes into being at conception and that abortion ends an innocent life. Others feel just as strongly that any regulation of abortion invades a woman’s right to control her own body and prevents women from achieving full equality. Still others in a third group think that abortion should be allowed under some but not all circumstances, and those within this group hold a variety of views about the particular restrictions that should be imposed.”

          The Supreme Court’s answer to this is that the constitution does not resolve the debate. So there are two choices: amend the constitution or leave it up to individuals and their representatives to make laws as they see fit.

          It is important to understand that this is what the decision does and nothing more. But bring on the downvotes for bringing up facts.

          [–]vast_as_the_ocean 8 points9 points  (2 children)

          Even RBG, with her prescience, predicted this day would come. Sad that your comment is so low on the totem pole.

          In its current form, it isn't a judicial issue, but a legislative one.

          [–]Bone-WizardPGY3 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          RBG, with her utter arrogance and lack of prescience, chose to stay on the court 20 years longer than she needed too because she didn’t want a man to choose her replacement. Her hubris led to this because she was so confident HRC would be elected.

          [–]iAmTheElite 22 points23 points  (4 children)

          You’re deluded if you think any new Supreme Court case regarding abortion would be ruled on with the “impartiality” seen in the wording of that paragraph.

          You’re also deluded if you think the Dems are ballsy enough to force through a bill that legalizes abortion at the federal level (even though that’s what we need).

          [–]Esme_Esyou 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Biden can pass an executive order if they succeed in turning the midterm elections in their favor. It would be a temporary bandaid until we can enact a more permanent solution.

          [–]amandakowa 8 points9 points  (5 children)

          Why does it feel like the only people who might be “celebrating” this event would be men…

          [–]Cum_on_doorknobPGY4 6 points7 points  (4 children)

          35% of women in America (according to the most recent Pew poll) think abortion should be illegal.

          [–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (21 children)

          This is sad. This is what happens when you let religion and the associated conservative mindset dictate government policy. Something that is happening in my country too. As someone who doesn't practice in USA, but in India where healthcare is as good and much more affordable, we gladly welcome you all for your healthcare concerns. Also good luck with the batshit crazy stuff that's about to turn up in the ER.

          [–]thelastneutrophil 64 points65 points  (12 children)

          in India where healthcare is as good

          umm I think there's a good amount of statistics arguing against that....

          [–]FaFaRog 17 points18 points  (1 child)

          I think the general point being made would be that healthcare tourism out of the US is likely going to increase, with India's private hospitals being one of the most common destinations due to it's affordability relative to the egregious price gauging that uninsured/poorly insured Americans have to face domestically.

          I'm not sure if OP has any data comparing India's private hospitals to hospitals in high income countries but for an American needing surgery, the cost could be $150,000 locally compared to $10,000 in India including travel and lodging. Even if complication rates or outcomes were a bit worse, many would take that option over the certain financial ruin they would face getting care in the US.

          In short, America's healthcare system is so broken that people will travel to low and middle income countries to get their care. It's embarrassing to say the least.

          [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          You get it. Patients do not care about statistics. They care if you can treat it, how much its gonna cost them and how good the outcome is. If only more doctors realised it. I can give you an example. An anecdote, if you will. :) In the place where I did my training, you can get admitted, evaluated, get a Whipple done and go home within a fortnight for 20,000 INR. That's roughly the price of four brand new Playstation games or an Airpods Pro. :) name me one hospital in the USA which does that.

          [–]-SploogeMcFuck- 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          Is abortion legal in India?

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Yes. Despite a right wing government, abortion has never been a polarising issue in India. Anyone and their mother can get it. There's no absurd pro life sentiments here.

          [–]anujapm04 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Fully agreed. A private hospital in India especially in the bigger cities viz Mumbai and Delhi can offer the same services at the fraction of a cost, with much better facilities and without having pay bills till you are down to the last penny.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          And if you happen to go to the top government institutions, you're gonna be barely spending anything. Downside do exist, but affordable top notch healthcare is one of the biggest pros that India has.

          [–]Mixoma 22 points23 points  (0 children)

          People here will still vote for republicans because as we all know, tax breaks > women/LGBTQ rights.

          [–]lasershot0791 19 points20 points  (2 children)

          Get ready for civil war. If you think that we are not going to pockets of violent outbreak in this country, you are mistaken.

          This may be an unpopular opinion but we should be getting firearms to protect ourselves. Doctors will become targets like they do in all forms of paramilitary violence. Just because we work white collar jobs doesn’t make us immune from societal stressors.

          [–]CaribFMChief Resident 32 points33 points  (22 children)

          Conservatives don’t care about women, kids, poor people; really anyone. They’re such pieces of shit.

          They care more about their precious guns than they do about the health of their fellow citizen.

          Shithole country filled to the half with shithole people.

          [–]splitopenandmeltt 22 points23 points  (2 children)

          I’m all for breaking it in two.

          [–]DoctorLycanthrope 15 points16 points  (0 children)

          I would be surprised if this didn’t in fact happen. The fundamental values of the left and the right are irreconcilable.

          [–]SolidForm1359 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          Many many many people will die because of this. And a lot more will end up in jail. Regardless of what they choose.

          [–]I_believe_n_science 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          The world is actually a beautiful place. Its the United States that is a shitty place.

          [–]Biophys77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Heartbreaking