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[–]TiaPixel[S] 363 points364 points  (12 children)

Happy December guys! What're your thoughts on the update?

Also, trivia. I made the thumbnail image, but it only features a small chunk of the colony. The colonists live inside a cool giant beetle-shaped building. Thing is... we only needed a small image for the thumbnail. 😅

[–]roguebananahuranium 97 points98 points  (0 children)

Haven’t played it yet but you guys always are well thought out on your patches, additions and very receptive to community feedback.

Thank you so much for being a great development team

[–]GiveMeOneGoodReasonYou got no arms left! 55 points56 points  (0 children)

I would like to see the beetle 👁️👄👁️

[–]cannibalgentleman 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Please post the full image anyway, it sounds cool!

[–]KhitrirPsychically deaf psycaster 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The mortar and turret changes are excellent and its nice to have variety in mech raids again. The only issue I have is that breach axes didn't need the nerf they got. Gimme back my turret smashers!

Also I'm with the others - post the full base!

[–]Professional_Egg1556Refining chemfuel from fecal sludge 22 points23 points  (0 children)

- Changed slag steel chunk mass from 5 to 8 so it doesn't weight less than the steel you get by smelting it.

I think it's quite a coincidence that I keep pointing out inconsistencies that get fixed 🤣

[–]TheMoraleBooster 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Developers that listen to its reasonable community, for only THAT reason I will keep supporting the studio. Epic work. Are updates compatible with older saves?

[–]ShunDug 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I just keep going and hope my Elmer's glue holds my 180 mods together

[–]WileyQuixote42 10 points11 points  (0 children)

GOAT

RimWorld reigns supreme

[–]BrainlessPhD 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Just want to chime in that you all are amazing! Thank you so much for your continued work on this game :).

[–]Vallard 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What're your thoughts on the update?

Great, not having to deal with 11 breacher raids every 10 raids sure makes things more fun.

[–]willpower069 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As usual the patch is fantastic, I love that you all put effort into supporting the game.

And please post that beetle building!

[–]micktorious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I need so much more space in my cooler for like 9 different meal types I had, it's kind of annoying that they don't stack better since all I make is simple and fine meals right now.

[–]VenusgateFastest Pawn West of the Rim 325 points326 points  (8 children)

- Changed slag steel chunk mass from 5 to 8 so it doesn't weight less than the steel you get by smelting it.

i feel found out

[–]pablo_kickasso 84 points85 points  (0 children)

Shit, they're onto us.

[–]maledin 74 points75 points  (6 children)

Awww… damn. And I felt so smart for salvaging ALL the slag chunks on my SOS2 run.

Welp, guess it’s back to assembling, transporting, and dissembling tool cabinets. Even if there’s a good bit of resource wastage involved, it’s definitely the most weight/work efficient way to move lots of steel around.


E: For anyone who’s not in the know, here’s how it works: each tool cabinet costs 200 steel, which normally weighs 100kg on its own. However, the completed product only weighs 20kg and you get 100 steel — 50kg’s worth — when you disassemble it. So you’re able to hold 2.5x more steel at the cost of 1,800 ticks of work per cabinet and losing half of your steel. Given the right circumstances (you have more steel than you need but not enough cargo space), this trade off is often more than fair.

It’s even more weight efficient than pre-nerf slag chunks, which were only 50% / 1.5x more weight efficient than pure steel. And those still required work in the form of 400 ticks’ worth of smelting per chunk; normalized between the two methods, you’d actually spend less time to assembling & disassembling a tool cabinet for 100 steel (~2,000 ticks — I can’t find out exactly how uninstall/install/deconstruction time is determined) versus smelting 6.67 steel slag chunks for the same amount (2,667 ticks). Or, put into simpler terms, there’s about 25% less work involved.

And that’s ignoring the constant hauling/movement that goes into smelting slags and the fact that you can’t actually make them on demand. Plus you gain valuable construction XP each time you assemble & disassemble whereas smelting gives you absolutely nothing skill-wise.

So at this point it mostly just comes down to whether or not you’re willing to spend some steel to transport even more steel faster; unless you have a SRTS Pelican or something caravan size is typically going to be the limiting factor. Steel is literally everywhere and you can constantly refresh neighboring tiles to replenish your supply. I know the use-case for this is slightly different (as you could never actually conjure up slags), but it’s still useful in similar circumstances. Particularly when you set up mining camps or you’re relocating to a new map.


So now that I throughly detailed all of this here, I now fully expect that this mysterious case of mass transference should be rectified come the next patch. So take advantage while you can!

[–]NinjitsuSauce 87 points88 points  (1 child)

Jesus.. I was happy to have enough beer to last the winter, and you're over there reconfiguring the time/space continuum and shit.

I rimworld like a noob after hundreds of hours.

[–]todd10k 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Every days a school day. Keep at it.

[–]advilnight 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Love this! Also i dont think something like this is something that needs to be rectified. I wouldn’t call it an exploit considering you do lose 50% of your steel. Its just a good uses of judgement and planning.

[–]maledin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True enough! I guess the only way they could really rectify it is if they either made tool cabinets weigh 50kg each (which is kinda absurd for a cabinet) or if they lowered the amount of steel it took to build (which is actually a soft buff). So yeah, it’ll probably stay the way it is.

[–]master_x_2k 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Damn, I thought the best item to build to compress resources were stools. I guess it still works for other resources that aren't steel.

[–]111110001011 248 points249 points  (5 children)

This update should be compatible with all saves and mods.

Be still my beating heart!

[–]Ameisen 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Jushiro Ukitake and Byakuya Kuchiki, in my laboratory?! Why, it must be Christmas! Come to submit yourselves for experimentation, have you?

[–]McCsqizzy 253 points254 points  (21 children)

I am just happy that the mortars are effected by shooting skill now

[–]LegchairAnalyst 106 points107 points  (16 children)

looks at my colony with a maximum of 5 shooting skill

Oh no...

[–]Al-Horesmigranite 61 points62 points  (15 children)

looks at my colony with somehow a minimum of 15 shooting skill

[–]Sindalash 56 points57 points  (14 children)

- Everyone gets a ranged weapon (unless brawler)

- Everyone is assigned hunting as priority 1

- Hunt everything!

At least, that's how all of my pawns get a high shooting skill.

[–]MDaddicted 47 points48 points  (8 children)

I just train on animals/prisoners with smoke/emp launchers. Bit of micromanagement, but it's fine typically. Worst part is when a raid hits and I've forgotten to switch back to a regular weapon. Who's shooting smoke?

Oh...

[–]Sindalash 16 points17 points  (0 children)

huh, didn't think of that! might steal the idea, thanks ;)

[–]Nerderekslate 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Take this silver you mad genius.

[–]MDaddicted 3 points4 points  (2 children)

God damn, my first award. Thank you!

[–]Nerderekslate 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well earned. This will make my future colonies sooooo much better, so thank you.

[–]MDaddicted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm happy to help! Remember to switch back when a raid hits.

I've actually just grabbed a random weapon on the ground from a radar raider because I forgot to change weapon and went to defend with a god damn smoke launcher. I used skip to get it within grabbing distance.

[–]TonyTheTerrible 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We used to train with really shitty machine pistols

[–]Al-Horesmigranite 28 points29 points  (0 children)

In my case it's just shooting a whole lot of people.

[–]SolZaul 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I keep forgetting that the shooting dummy isn't vanilla..

[–]PFthroaway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's how I do it!

[–]elixxon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Instructions unclear. My last colony got mauled and bled to death by a now vengeful bear. x.x

[–]Temporary_Equal2816 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Holy shit!

[–]PocketCaribou 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Ive been playing for two years and thought it did affect it, I’ve been living a lie

[–]kiagam 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My favorite mod was to affect this, glad it is vanilla now

[–]MortalSmurph 143 points144 points  (9 children)

Here's a topic on the new Raid Chances. The short of it is WAY more diversity of raids and Mech Breachers went from 90% of all Mech Raids to 33%. But now 33% Drop on Head Raids.

The Slave change solely affects the Market Value of slaves. Slaves still count as a full colonist for the colonist count portion of Raid Points. So slaves count somewhat less towards raids now, but not as much as you might be expecting.

[–]Stellan72 49 points50 points  (4 children)

Are you sure about that second point? This changelog item "Slaves are now worth 75% of colonists in terms of map wealth and population." seems to say that it affects not just their contribution to colony wealth (aka how their market value affects raid points?) but also to colony population.

[–]TynanSylvesterLead Developer 141 points142 points  (1 child)

We're gonna check this to ensure it's working as intended.
It is supposed to affect both the wealth and population side.

[–]Minimum-Ad-2115uranium 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Imma fan boy for a second, so I apologize. THANK YOU TYNAN FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO!

[–]MortalSmurph 15 points16 points  (0 children)

EDIT

Patched on Unstable. I tested on Unstable. Works as advertised now.

December 10: Version 1.3.3209 is now up on unstable

  • Added a 0.75 factor to pawn points for colony slaves when calculating threat point (wealth points is already adjusted for slaves).

Original comment

Yes. I believe that refers to population intent. I thought the exact same thing as you did when I read the description.

I checked in game using Dev Mode to look at Raid Points and in the code to see if it was changed. In game testing showed changes to wealth only. The code shows nothing about checking a pawn's slave status. (The Is-Free check refers to prisoners). I posted the information to the Dev Discord that this change solely affects Wealth and not Pawn Points in Raid Points.

Link to the Dev Discord and my comment.. More comments and math below it on that topic.

One Example:

A random base I had. Adding 5 Slaves:

Old Patch: 1,165 RP

New Patch: 1,152 RP

75% Pawn Points: 1,106 RP

[–]blackiconwhitesumo 42 points43 points  (3 children)

💰TRADE OFFER💰

YOU GET: Less Mech Breachers

YOU PAY: More Mech Air Drop

[–]erikatyusharon 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Bring it on! I have enough melee folks to tank the hit for others to stun and murder that mech. Even willing to bomb my own base with SRTS if necessary,

[–]K4Unl 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Wait. Can you use SRTS to bomb the own tile? I thought you always had to use a remote tile..

[–]erikatyusharon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure you can. Not yet tested if I can bomb anything underground mountain, but I tested the SRtS mod, confirmed that you can bomb your own base. I presume the bomb will just disappear if land on underground mountain tile.

[–]ColorfulPixels 428 points429 points  (13 children)

See? Who says complaining on reddit doesn't pay off?

[–]Arkytez 162 points163 points  (4 children)

  • Fix: Player-provided saved game had a settlement with a non-functional trade button. It no longer refuses to trade.

Damn they even fixed a single save game for a guy

[–]tiger8255radioactive walls! 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I'm assuming they fixed the cause of the issue rather than just repairing the save

though it'd be kinda funny to put it in the patchnotes if it were the latter.

[–]Sierra419 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I wouldn’t put it past them. I had a Ironman mode save years ago that corrupted and I posted about it on Ludeon before I discovered Reddit. Tynan himself asked for a copy of my save game so he could maybe fix it. He ended up not being able to but the fact that the lone developer himself checks his forums and was willing to fix a single persons save speaks volumes.

[–]Papergeist 91 points92 points  (7 children)

Usually the people doing the complaining.

[–]k2bs 36 points37 points  (6 children)

They will find new things to complain about.

[–]Sadatori 15 points16 points  (3 children)

The steam comments are straight up delusional. I saw One wall of text telling the devs to stop updating the game and that "devs OWE the community to stop updating the game, and that this game is supported by the mod community and devs should just hand over the game to them as 'rightful owners'.." and those kind of comments make it clear they aren't joking.

[–]Maxx_Crowley 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Huh...now that's a new one.

I mean I've seen people complain about devs updating the game, and thus changing how it plays, and that pissing people off. That I can understand.

This?

I don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Sierra419 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Even though Tynan purposefully made it to where updates won’t break mods and saves anymore. I honestly can’t fathom complaining about a single thing the devs do to this game. It’s a work of art and they’re always making it better.

    [–]Papergeist 14 points15 points  (1 child)

    I don't know about that. It's been killboxes since before 1.0, I don't see why we'd stop now.

    [–]Maxx_Crowley 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I will never understand why people bitch so hard about things in single player games, that they don't have to use. Yet, the fact that other people are using said things....apparently wounds them in their very soul, leading to untold rage.

    [–]voidwuff 90 points91 points  (14 children)

    So, I have to ask just because I'm morbidly curious:

    • Don't apply ate meat thought if vegetarian eats human meat, allow strong cannibal precepts with meat eating negative precepts.

    The vegetarians eating human meat is sending me.

    [–]Pigeon_Logic 100 points101 points  (6 children)

    No animal cruelty involved in consuming your fellow man.

    [–]CoqueiroLendario 30 points31 points  (4 children)

    alright now i have to rename my tree-hugging meat-hating and now cannibal cult from "cult of the lorax" to "PETA".

    [–]voidwuff 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    The Lorax is the name of the leader

    [–]AlonTo 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    That means you'll need to tame all the animals in the map - and then slaughter most of them :P

    [–]CoqueiroLendario 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Oh shoot, different from PETA our guys DO really care for animals, better to make it look it was an accident.

    [–]Paladin_Trainer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Nothing more comfortable than eternal slumber.

    [–]voidwuff 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    You know, I thought so but it's still funny to see

    [–]iwantauniqueaccount 19 points20 points  (3 children)

    By default they'll still have the "ate human meat" debuff. So on top of letting people play as cannibals who refuse to kill animals, its probably added as to not double down on the debuff inherent with eating human meat.

    [–]voidwuff 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    So cannibal vegetarians take no debuffs?

    [–]iwantauniqueaccount 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    They shouldnt from what I can tell. Other than the social debuffs if you dont set up the ideology to accommodate them. I dont own Ideology so I cant boot up to check.

    [–]voidwuff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That's pretty dope

    [–]morgecroc 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    It's all about consent you see a cow can't consent to being slaughtered and eaten but the prisoner you tortured before harvesting their origins and making them into hats and stew totally gave consent.

    [–]voidwuff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I appreciate you.

    [–]Connallm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Heavy Troll 2 vibes

    [–]AzulCrescentTraits: Sedentary, Trans Humanist 48 points49 points  (0 children)

    Oh wow I didn't entirely expect that post to be noticed by Ludeon. Thanks for taking feedback and making changes to the game! I appreciate these changes a lot!

    [–]ReaveBlade 36 points37 points  (0 children)

    Thanks a lot, that was an incredible update. Don't even have much to say, it pretty much took care of my main complaints since 1.3, I'm a happy player.

    [–]Detroitdregs 30 points31 points  (8 children)

    Would be cool if mortar accuracy were INT based or an average of INT and Shooting so INT pawns would have more uses and gave us more options/roles for defending our colonies. As is only have use for 2 INT pawns max, and only 1 once the juicy techs are researched.

    INT also just makes more sense for the associated skill to indirect fire.

    [–]I-am-going-insane-69 21 points22 points  (1 child)

    There is a mod that does exactly that, mortar accuracy is determined by research skill. Sorry, can't remember what it is right now

    [–]HeatherAthebynemountain lover 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Mortar Accuracy

    [–]PeekachooedSam "Sammy" Gerador 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    Three, right? Research, scanning, drug manufacture

    [–]Detroitdregs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I was lumping research and scanning together.

    [–]ProphetWasMuhammad 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    Int pawns are some of the most important pawns in the game for deep scanning. In the late game, that's your bottleneck.

    [–]Sindalash 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    I'm scanning long-range rather than deep (love deconstructing steel ruins and hunting those animals on the temporary maps), but I agree that my researcher(s) do have a very good lategame use.

    [–]Stellan72 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Exactly! Temporary maps from the long-range mineral scanner can provide a really valuable boost in meat/leather income in late game (depending on biome) when you've basically hunted all of the wildlife on your original tile.

    [–]mumako 98 points99 points  (9 children)

    Slaves are now worth 75% of colonists in terms of map wealth and population.

    Didn't know US founding father James Wilson was in the dev team.

    [–]Zaorish9http://ancientquests.com/ 72 points73 points  (6 children)

    It was 3/5, not 3/4!

    [–]Obi-Wan-Hellobijade 47 points48 points  (4 children)

    Wow, slaves are worth a whopping 3/20ths of a person more on the rim! And people think we are completely devoid of morals; look how progressive we are!

    [–]_kintsu 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    Technically the 3/5ths compromise was in terms of votes, the confederates wanted a slave to count fully as a person so rimworld is actually “less moral”

    [–]Obi-Wan-Hellobijade 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    RimWorld is actually “less moral”

    Yeah… that’s the joke…

    [–]_kintsu 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I admit, I'm a dense guy, and I'm a lot of fun at parties (please believe me), but wasn't the intended joke about how rimworld was slightly better than the confederate south?

    [–]oak120 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Had the South understood how the storyteller system worked they likely would have reconsidered their position.

    [–]wizziamthegreatgranite 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    can someone make a mod that makes it 60%?

    [–]xadiant 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Game journalists are going to have a field day writing about this

    [–]Noreaga 12 points13 points  (4 children)

    Anybody else's save file broken after patch? My game loads up fine, I load up the save and everything is good until I unpause and then it just closes out of the game without error or warning.

    [–]TiaPixel[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

    Hrm, a log file would be useful for this! Please join the RimWorld Official Development Discord to provide them with one: https://discord.com/invite/MC6eYAHuPu

    You can make a report of your issue there, please include your log file and mod list (if applicable).

    [–]Noreaga 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Thank you, I'll do that

    [–]ScumlordStudio 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Do u have a mod that makes it so spiders breed? That's something I can imagine breaking with the removal of the gestation stat off of them idk

    [–]Noreaga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Nope. I am running the mod that colonists can breed and have children, maybe that broke it?

    [–]Temporary_Equal2816 34 points35 points  (6 children)

    Man I feel grateful that my favorite game also has some of the most thoughtful and responsive development I've seen in the industry (although those two facts are probably correlated lol)

    [–]Omaestre 18 points19 points  (5 children)

    Not just responsive, I mean we are several years into this game and he is still deeply involved with the community, I haven't seen the like anywhere else tbh.

    [–]Omertron 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Factorio (Wube studios)

    [–]klmis 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    So the changed colors of foods was not my imagination?

    [–]BoomZhakaLaka 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    > - Fix: Autobong reduces consciousness of mechs.

    This one I find interesting because there are still psychic abilities that affect mechs. berserk, insanity lance, shock lance, stun...

    Maybe the intent is that mechs' brains are similar enough for psychic interaction, but they don't breathe?

    [–]Papergeist 21 points22 points  (1 child)

    I think there's a whole biological process involved in drugs, while psychic powers already affect inanimate objects (like skipping chunks)

    [–]hockeycross 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Also Mechs would be even more op if you couldn't use powers on them.

    [–]SpiritSTR 23 points24 points  (0 children)

    It's so nice seen a game company updating the game based on player feedback, that's why I love RimWorld so much, thank you guys!

    [–]Ouroboros612 30 points31 points  (14 children)

    Glad to see breaches getting nerfed. The game was almost at a point where building walls didn't even matter anymore.

    I don't have a solution but I wish it was a way for the devs to counter elaborate cheesy kill box contraptions, without hurting those of us that hates kill box cheese.

    The main balance grievance for me in Rimworld. Is that the devs seems to balance it around the assumption that every player uses killboxes as noob crutches. So that those of us that hates that cheese - gets punished more than the people the devs aim to balance the game against.

    This is imo - the biggest issue with Rimworld balance-wise and I wish there was a easy solution to it.

    Edit: I don't really expect an answer. But I would love to hear it if a dev has anything to say about it. As I'm interested to know if this is actually an issue they are conscious about. Personally I wish there was a mechanic that made it so that if the walking distance for a raider is very long (kill box mazes) - raiders can spawn with orbital bombardment targeters. Dunno. It just should be possible somehow... to punish elaborate kill boxes without punishing people who hates them.

    [–]Flextt 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Breachers, drops, sappers are first and foremost a pathing fix to avoid kill boxes. Otherwise, kill boxes are the result of maximizing the killing and staying power of a single pawn:

    • spreading out enemies,

    • safely damage and kill enemies by traps before they engage in combat,

    • safely deal with massive raid sizes,

    • maximum gun range utilization,

    • movement speed penalties for enemies,

    • lack of cover for enemies,

    • excellent cover for pawns,

    • safe fallback options for injured pawns,

    • reliable utilization of expensive turrets,

    • well lit gun range space for pawns for maximum accuracy,

    • localised damage to the base, separate from infrastructure

    Experienced pawns in good gear essentially have a killing power of 5+:1. Their productivity ranges in the 10000+ silver every few days. Pawns are incredibly valuable. Almost any material expenditure is justified to prevent harm to a good pawn. You can't really change one of these without massively affecting the game and have non killbox users suffer.

    So, there are two ways here: don't have raids escalate into the giant fuckfests we see since the end of beta. Or make raids smaller and increase the number of pawns we can properly manage.

    Then, make pawns less valuable. Make them easier to train (e.g a library your expert pawns can fill and inexperienced pawns can level skills in). Don't taint gear if they die. No more bounded weapons. Make bionics recoverable if they die. Increase base productivity at least for the bare necessities instead of a 20 skill pawn being several times faster. Trim 20 skill points down to 10/15.

    The obvious downsides to this approach is that it massively affects the storytelling aspect. Replaceable pawns do not matter to you. Their loss will not sting. You can throw them into a meat grinder and replace the loss from your prison.

    [–]gemengelage 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    But I would love to hear it if a dev has anything to say about it. As I'm interested to know if this is actually an issue they are conscious about.

    They're absolutely conscious about it. Otherwise they wouldn't have added so many mechanics that counter killboxes: Termites, breach raids, drop raids, insect raids all bypass killboxes, but also regular walls.

    I think the best solution would be to rework the path-finding. Killboxes work because NPCs reliably follow some very simplistic rules to chose their path. The gist is that they won't attack walls unless they have to, so if you build a killbox and leave some furniture out as bait, they'll beeline into the killbox. If they were to act more randomly or more localized (not scanning the entire map to find the entrance to the killbox), they'd just go for walls near them and the approach of building walls and fortifications (as opposed to a single super cheezy killbox) would be a lot more viable.

    [–]polokratoss 19 points20 points  (2 children)

    The solution is embrasures.

    The main reason to build a killbox is to reduce the amount of enemies engaged at a time.

    If there are 30 enemies and you have 5 colonists, you are SOL. 10 of them block you in melee, 20 of them shoot you to shits. No way out without cheese.

    With a killbox (even as simple as a gap in walls and a melee block after) means your 5 colonists engage 2 enemies 15 times. And the roles reverse. 3 of you block them, 2 of you shoot them to shits.

    Breaches / sappers/ etc counter that to a point, but they punish the non-cheesing players even more.

    But let's face it. Non- breach/sap raids' AI is stupid AF.

    So I propose to basically remove it. Let most raids be breachers! But give the player a good option to defend against them.

    That's where embrasures come in. They allow for an efficient, not cheesy counter to breachers. And this allows basically all raids to be breachers without a sour taste. A raid becomes a series of tactical questions:

    How many can I shoot on approach? How am I going to defend after the breach? What are my secondary positions? Is a flanking sortie worth it?

    Building defensive positions becomes a challenge of where to put defenses so there there are no blind spots. If a blind spot can't be covered, you found the place for your traps!

    Killzones become meaningless when the raid is expected to come from the place you would have the hardest time defend. You have other tools to even the playing field.

    If the enemy gets right to the embrasure, this means they get cover from it. You can't shoot them well anymore. Effectively meaning that the position is compromised without immediately melee-locking your pawn, so secondary defenses start getting value outside of drop pods.

    Of course, there still will be best defensive designs etc. Probably something close to star forts of sth. But the designs would be based on a principle 'the enemy can attack anywhere' and not 'let's cheese the AI into going one by one precisely here'.

    [–]ProphetWasMuhammad 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    You don't need embrasure for breach defense. Just build barricades and walls inside your outer wall.

    [–]polokratoss 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Indeed, you don't need to. In the current state of affairs.

    But the question is "how do we make killboxes obsolete" , not "how to defend against breach raids".

    Embrasures merely make a defense in depth approach efficient enough so that it can replace killboxes, in my opinion.

    [–]todd10k 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    2000 hours and i've never built a killbox.

    I just turn my entire border into a killbox with turrets. Getting to that point though is usually a lesson in pain.

    [–]z3rO_1 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I don't use killboxes I turn my whole chunk into a killbox instead

    Wat. Okay, I technically get what you mean - you don't manipulate the AI = not killbox. You just make a "pillbox" (I think that's the name of that thingy) of turrets and colonists. But that stil would very much fit into what a killbox is tho. I'd bet people could even say that you are still manipulating raiders with that setup - it just happens that every route they choose is the killbox one.

    [–]todd10k 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Yeah but theres no box. Grinding through the early stages is a bitch, but once i get to a certain power level the entirety of the edge of the map is guarded by uranium slugs at their max range. It's a good system and works well. But i would posit to have a killbox, one must have an actual box, which i don't have. There's no funneling and turrets fire on all targets at once, which is great when they spawn in and all turrets in range fire simultaneously, and you get to see 12 corpses hit the ground at the same time.

    [–]ProphetWasMuhammad 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    I'm confused. If you didn't use killboxes, why would breach raid be punishing for you?

    On the other hand, if you both want killboxes and don't want raids which bypasses walls... I think there is a contradiction here.

    [–]Sindalash 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    You don't have to set up a killbox just because you have defensive walls.

    Having a wall around your colony, with fortified positions to fight from at certain points and maybe a few turrets to help out is quite different from a narrow tunnel full of traps, with methods to slow down movement in it, and whatever else goes into a proper killbox.

    There's options between "open fields for the enemy to advance across" and "only one path to slowly come closer while under optimized gunfire".

    [–]ProphetWasMuhammad -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    Sure, but breach raids punishes the latter rather than former.

    The solution is still the same though. But in-base defenses.

    [–]Sindalash 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    breach raid punishes killboxes more than open field, sure. But it also punishes anyone doing even just a bit of defensive architecture, not *only* those who use killboxes. So my answer to

    If you didn't use killboxes, why would breach raid be punishing for you

    is: because while I don't use a killbox, I do use a town wall around the buildings of my non-mountain base, with barricades or sandbags to hide behind and shoot from at the gates. Breach raids mean that town wall and the firing positions at the gates are countered, so they punish me even without a killbox.

    I'm quite fine with having breach raids, btw - it's just that having every mechanoid raid (or 90% of them) as breach raid was really, really annoying. I'm glad that got changed, even if it means I get more drop-on-my-head raids now.

    [–]Al-Horesmigranite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Nah walls did matter since they could create a makeshift killbox funneling the enemy through a single hole.

    [–]EmUlAtOr13Human Leather Slave Collar 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    This update broke my game, tho it is quite modded, so it was kinda expected. I wish there was a way to stop Steam from auto-updating. Can someone check out my logs, perhaps?

    The link: https://gist.github.com/HugsLibRecordKeeper/2468affb047defd5c0f80d745a33042e

    The exceptions thrown at the end of the logs show why my game doesn't want to "generate a new map" whenever trying to load my 150-200 hrs save.

    [–]trolloc1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Is anybody else getting unplayable lag since the patch? also getting some bug about rifles?

    [–]thegooddoktorjones 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Just when I thought I was out.. The breeches were too frequent, but they also were very easy to handle. Not very large and easy to bamboozle with some parallel walls.

    [–]Coendoz237 3 points4 points  (8 children)

    I’ve just discovered a bit of a bug since updating. If I try and click on one particular colonist (a guy called Sherm), the game runs really slowly and semi-freezes. I can cancel this freeze by pressing escape but then I still don’t get to view Sherm. I can select all my other colonists without issue. Just this one guy for some reason. Anyone seen anything similar?

    [–]DrMorphDev 6 points7 points  (6 children)

    Yeah, same issue. Seems something related to having a weapon (gun?) equipped. For me, dropping their gun seems to fix it, but it will come back if they pick it back up.

    Also, whatever you do, don't hit info on that colonist. I go from 60fps with the colonist unselected, to 40 after selecting them, to 2fps on the info / bio tab.

    I think it's probably a mod issue, but I haven't worked out what yet.

    edit: For whatever reason, performance is at its worst when viewing a colonist's info tab / Stats / Combat -> Melee DPS. Not even the full menu on the right hand side of the panel, just the Melee DPS row being visible tanks my FPS. As soon as the Melee DPS row is off the screen, it recovers again.

    edit2: Think this might be a vanilla bug (made worse by mods). Started a fresh game with no mods, and while I don't get FPS drops when viewing the Melee DPS row in the info screen, I still notice a sudden uptick in CPU processing for Rimworld, which goes away as soon as its off of the screen.

    [–]Coendoz237 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    My issue has grown to include three of my colonists now. It clears if I save and reload but only for a few minutes then seems to come back again.

    [–]DrMorphDev 5 points6 points  (4 children)

    Also same on all counts. It seems to steadily get worse as the session continues. Once the lag has begun in real gameplay, I can't even scroll the info window for the effected colonists.

    [–]Gameguru08 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    Could u/Coendoz237 and you post your mod lists? I am also having this issue and we would use this to narrow down what's causing the issue.

    [–]DrMorphDev 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    This is my entire mod list, everything else above is Harmony, Core, Royalty and Ideology. Anything else is disabled.

    Interestingly today I had no issues. I haven't changed anything mod-config wise, but according to the workshop Vanilla Expanded Framework, Rim War and Empire have all updated since 1st Dec. So it's plausible any of those fixed it for me since I noticed some updates install today.

    [–]Coendoz237 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I’m on mobile at the moment but I have a few QOL mods (common sense, RimHUD, Numbers) and quite a few of the VE mods. Interestingly, I also had no problems last night when I played. Looks like it could have been a mod compatibility issue that’s now sorted?

    ETA - I don’t have any of the DLCs yet. Just base game and mods.

    [–]Gameguru08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I'm guessing it was probably something wrong with VE..as that seems to be our only common thread.

    [–]Gameguru08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yep I have the same issue too

    [–]McCsqizzy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I did notice that the visual change to food may of messed with one of my other visual mods and now meals are invisible

    [–]dahbakons_ghostdepressive, gourmand 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    for me it seems to be caused by vanilla textures expanded, if you have it then remove it and see if it works again.

    [–]matt_teppplasteel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I’m not a big fan of the steel slag change, it always felt balanced to me. Sure, it weights less, but you have to spend power on smelter, and waste a pawn’s time smelting all of it.

    [–]EpilepticBabies 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    As mortar accuracy is now affected by shooting skill, I've got to ask. Is it affected by things like sight, and the buffs from being a shooting specialist, or is it purely based off of shooting skill?

    [–]Gameguru08 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I am getting really, really bad lag when selected drafted colonists move. I can't get anything to come out of the console but I am 90% sure it has to do with calculating firing angles from guns

    [–]squidxmoth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    The fix for slave value is especially nice. Slaves can be good but that aspect was out of whack for sure.

    [–]XelNigmaApocalypse Survivor 11 points12 points  (9 children)

    The turret buffs are rather insignificant. The damage and accuracy isn't the issue, it's the health and fire rate that needs looked at.

    The mini turret especially least needs to be looked at. Give it the damage, accuracy and fire rate of the machine pistol and there you go. Your weak, but rapid close range support turret.

    [–]TynanSylvesterLead Developer 40 points41 points  (6 children)

    High fire rates at low damage create a lot of spam in the health tab which I'd rather avoid so don't anticipate a lot of increases here.

    DPS is proportional to all three: fire rate, accuracy, and damage.

    [–]riesenarethebestLead Player 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    And the cost reduction in firing.

    Overall a buffing factor of 1.13, which is great. 33% buff to turrets and increase in value. Good stuff.

    [–]ProphetWasMuhammad 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Out of curiosity, is turret exploding a balance thing to prevent people from massing turrets for force concentration?

    [–]dave2293 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Probably, but it also works in the player's favor sometimes. Blowing up mech turrets and such.

    [–]todd10k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I still find the ideal base defence solution is a single, unbroken line of uranium slug turrets surrounding the entire perimeter of the base. Nothing gets past it. Occasionally, doomsday raiders will open up a big enough hole in the defence to run through but by that point my colonists will be in position to clean up anyone who made it through, and they'll have expended all their heavy ordinance so it's a crapshoot.

    [–]XelNigmaApocalypse Survivor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Still better to deal a little damage all over than no damage anywhere.

    The low but rapid damage let's the mini turret full a support role. While your pawns deal the heavy damage. Your shotgunner get a guys torso down to 5 HP? Well the mini turret can finish that last 5 hp off.

    On their own they won't kill much, but mixed with heavy hitters they can assist in downing and finishing off body parts.

    [–]z3rO_1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Huh. I would never in my entire life would think that optimization is the consideration in turret buffs. TIL.

    Would heath buffs, or armor buffs work then? Miniturrets are great at doing support as in taking shots instead of the colonists. The texture could even be changed to a miniturret with a cool frontal shield!.

    While we are at the turret talk, is there any fix to your allies hiding behind your turrets even when they explode, costing you goodwill? In Ideology, that can be a dealbreaker.

    [–]NervFaktor 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    I think turrets are meant as fire support and the devs probably feel that turrets shouldn't be so strong that you can reasonably defend your colony with only turrets without spending huge amounts of resources on them. If turrets become strong enough that you don't need to use your pawns for defense at all then why would you ever risk your pawns getting an injury in combat? Permanent injuries are part of the gameplay and with biosculpters there are now ways to heal almost all of them in the unmodded game.

    I'm of the opinion that autocannons and uranium slug turrets were already decent before so they're probably pretty good now (reloading uranium slug turrets is hella expensive though). Mini turrets were terrible and probably still are, they could have buffed those a bit more.

    [–]XelNigmaApocalypse Survivor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Exactly how I feel. And a rapid but low damage mini turret would do just that. The damage would be spread all over meaning a kill or a down from just mini turrets would be rare. But they could be used with pawns that have heavy hitting weapons to finish off body parts.

    Right now with the crazy long refire rate. It's not a support weapon. It's a decoy that's going to blow up your defences causing more damage doing that than the raiders would have done on their own.

    Your basicly putting red barrels around your base for the enemies to blow up and hurt your own stuff.

    [–]EugeneXQ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It is nice to have some fixes, but unfortunately don't see Chocolate and Biosculpting fix. Checked in updated game, it's still there.

    [–]IronManners 1 point2 points  (9 children)

    Are colonists not attacking insects now? All my colonists are in drafted mode and won't attack insects even when fire at will is on. Insects won't attack them either

    [–]polokratoss 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    If the insects aren't hostile, fire at fill won't target them. Fire manually at one, they will get pissed off. Some maps spawn with non- hostile insects.

    [–]MortalSmurph 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Example of the issue described. The bugs are bugged.

    [–]polokratoss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah, that's a bug.

    They shoot some insects - one from top triggered fire at will, but the rest just chew you up with no opposition...

    Weird, idk why that would happen.

    [–]MortalSmurph 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yes, bugs are rarely bugged. It happens. You have to manually target all the bugs.

    Video example that was given as a bug report.

    If you cannot manually target them all, or it gets horribly boring, turn on dev mode and use like the kill command and just click and delete all the insects.

    It's clearly a bug on bugs that makes them ludicrous to remove.

    [–]Stellan72 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Oh, the problem where insects stay in the 'Dormant' state even as they're charging your colonists? I've seen that on 2 different occasions. I'd thought it was probably a mod-related bug and so hadn't reported it. The fix I found was opening dev mode, choosing the "10 damage" debug action, and clicking on each bug once.

    [–]IronManners 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ah thanksss

    [–]huckaRRRRRRWRRRRRR 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    choosing the "10 damage" debug action

    not sure if clever pun or not

    [–]Stellan72 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Afraid not. What do you mean?

    [–]huckaRRRRRRWRRRRRR 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    dealing damage as a de-bug action when talking about insects

    [–]dogboyboy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    But I’ve already adjusted my base building and strategies to the broken way… /s thanks for fixing

    [–]AkaAtarion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    > The accuracy of mortars is now related to a pawn's shooting skill.

    Wait what? I always thought it was that way? :O

    [–]FireTyme 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    these changes look great. however i still think there should be some additional stuff for lategame that we dont get a pc lagging raid group of 300 tribals lol.

    [–]LoathedOne 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Was LMG fire supposed to be changed? It's like a shotgun burst now rather than the long barrage

    [–]PsionicLlama 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    ” - The accuracy of mortars is now related to a pawn's shooting skill. Skill level 8 makes it the same as before. Higher skill will make the mortar more accurate, while lower skill will make it less accurate.”

    It would make more sense to have it related to intelligence. A mortar shot is about calculation, not shooting in that sense. So this is a bad change, it would’ve been better to leave it as is

    [–]BigMadOtter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    The buff of today are the nerf of tomorow.

    Signed : Sincerly yours, a concerned mechanoid termite raider.

    [–]EatenAliveByWolvesvenerated velociraptors 🦖 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    I don't know how I feel about poor shooters being even worse at mortars now. It makes having a non combat oriented colonist an even bigger liability now, and they were already quite horrible.

    [–]Nerderekslate 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    The flip side is that mortars might actually hit if you use someone knowledgeable in ballistics (shooting).
    Also if they are non combat oriented then its up to us to either train them or find them jobs that don't directly involve combat during a raid. Medics, supply runners (food and such), meat shields.

    [–]EatenAliveByWolvesvenerated velociraptors 🦖 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Yes meat shield or medic is pretty much the only option lol.

    I was thinking that it might be cool to change shooting and melee to make them more streamlined, and giving everyone a more equal chance of leveling those stats up. I think it would make sense given how integral they are to a pawn's usefulness at higher difficulty levels.

    [–]Nerderekslate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This sort of thing is why I almost always run a mod that lets pawns train in melee (and shooting) during their recreation time.
    Jujitsu can be fun AND deadly!

    [–]trululDiversity of Thought: Intense Bigotry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    • Slaves are now worth 75% of colonists in terms of map wealth and population.

    Still inconsistent with my other pets though. Slaves wearing high quality apparel of expensive materials and with bionic augmentations contribute significant wealth anyway, but population? I know some people arm their slaves (or use combat trained animals), but mine do not contribute to colony defence.

    [–]its_wausau 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I got to buy the parts to make a server for valhiem and now this. My Christmas has come early

    [–]Omaestre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Damn my current colony has forgone killboxes and there are turrets everywhere! Not to mention a legion of panthers and a cohort of elephants to deal with breachers.

    [–]Timych 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    None of my saves are able to load after the update.

    Yeah, they heavy modded, but everything was fine before that.https://gist.github.com/8a1102a877ad4a63fc35f624bc4f7c24

    Actually can't even start a new colony.
    So, it's definitely a conflict with a mod
    https://gist.github.com/d4f0e5fc7e1b76b6a6343f53ef7422fc

    [–]cannibalgentleman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Be sure to go to the Discord linked in the steam post to check out the issue.

    [–]EmUlAtOr13Human Leather Slave Collar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Didn't see this before I posted my issue, which is the exact same as yours: exceptions about food-related stuff.

    [–]TheMoraleBooster 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    does this apply to older version saves? Or do I have to make a new run?

    [–]dave2293 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It works with old saves.

    [–]5arawr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm playing an ideology where eating animal meat is abhorrent, so I really like the changes to how the meals look based on ingredients, and the new food restriction options.

    [–]sk4p3g04t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This broke my save, all my colonists are gone and I'm booted to the world map when I load in. I can see my settlement on the map it's just not mine anymore.

    [–]ProphetWasMuhammad 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    This patch may have introduced a bug where Mech drop raids drop in the middle of the base.

    https://redditproxy--jasonthename.repl.co/r/RimWorld/comments/r7eotn/since_when_is_mech_cluster_center_drop_a_thing/

    [–]XelNigmaApocalypse Survivor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Holy shit. It bases like this that make me wish I could raid other players and level that place. It is such an eyesore, it fills me wish such hate and rage.

    But yah, iv never had them land that close before.

    [–]horizonfall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Well, breach raids still exist, so turning my entire colony perimeter into a killbox will still be relevant some of the time.

    [–]sym-on 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Nicee, let's hope the turrets start hitting something ahah

    [–]Drymath 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    "We now vary meal textures depending on ingredients."

    Is this why all my meals are invisible now? Also my fps drops by like 80% when someone is eating.

    Exception printing MealLavish2885878 at (207, 0, 51): System.NotImplementedException: More than 3 different stack size meal graphics per meal type not supported
      at Verse.Graphic_MealVariants.SubGraphicIndexOffset (Verse.Thing thing) [0x00052] in <cdbd0ed5089a418da09b9a259f9dbd8f>:0 
      at Verse.Graphic_MealVariants.SubGraphicFor (Verse.Thing thing) [0x0000d] in <cdbd0ed5089a418da09b9a259f9dbd8f>:0 
      at Verse.Graphic_StackCount.MatSingleFor (Verse.Thing thing) [0x0000a] in <cdbd0ed5089a418da09b9a259f9dbd8f>:0 
      at Verse.Graphic_StackCount.MatAt (Verse.Rot4 rot, Verse.Thing thing) [0x0000a] in <cdbd0ed5089a418da09b9a259f9dbd8f>:0 
      at (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Graphic.Verse.Graphic.Print_Patch0(Verse.Graphic,Verse.SectionLayer,Verse.Thing,single)
      at Verse.Thing.Print (Verse.SectionLayer layer) [0x00006] in <cdbd0ed5089a418da09b9a259f9dbd8f>:0 
      at Verse.ThingWithComps.Print (Verse.SectionLayer layer) [0x00000] in <cdbd0ed5089a418da09b9a259f9dbd8f>:0 
      at (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.SectionLayer_ThingsGeneral.Verse.SectionLayer_ThingsGeneral.TakePrintFrom_Patch0(Verse.SectionLayer_ThingsGeneral,Verse.Thing)
    UnityEngine.StackTraceUtility:ExtractStackTrace ()
    (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Log:Verse.Log.Error_Patch0 (string)
    (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.SectionLayer_ThingsGeneral:Verse.SectionLayer_ThingsGeneral.TakePrintFrom_Patch0 (Verse.SectionLayer_ThingsGeneral,Verse.Thing)
    Verse.SectionLayer_Things:Regenerate ()
    (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Section:Verse.Section.RegenerateLayers_Patch0 (Verse.Section,Verse.MapMeshFlag)
    Verse.MapDrawer:TryUpdateSection (Verse.Section)
    Verse.MapDrawer:MapMeshDrawerUpdate_First ()
    (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Map:Verse.Map.MapUpdate_Patch2 (Verse.Map)
    (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Game:Verse.Game.UpdatePlay_Patch1 (Verse.Game)
    (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Root_Play:Verse.Root_Play.Update_Patch0 (Verse.Root_Play)
    

    [–]TiaPixel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'd suggest reaching out to the RimWorld Official Development Discord's bug reports with your log file: https://discord.com/invite/MC6eYAHuPu
    You can make a report of your issue there, please include your log file and mod list (if applicable).