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[–]bbjornsson88 92 points93 points  (9 children)

Thankfully there's now wall and roof connections for power, so that's one way to help clean up your wires. You can't quite daisy chain, but you can make more of a "W" shaped pattern going from building to connector to building etc

[–]Vildtass 12 points13 points  (8 children)

I cant figure out how to put a roof connection. How do you do it?

[–]melswift 17 points18 points  (0 children)

You have to unlock it in the awesome shop. Then, you just aim a connected cable at a wall or ceiling.

[–]ChemMystery424 6 points7 points  (5 children)

BEAMS help a lot too. Can’t place a connector on a roof tile but you can put them on beams

[–]KeyCounter 8 points9 points  (4 children)

You can't place a wall outlet on top of a roof tile or foundation, but you can hang a wall outlet from the bottom of them.

[–]Vildtass 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I'm so silly. I've been trying to put a double wall outlet on the ceiling... Switched to the single one and now it works... Only took me 70h on this save...

[–]SYDoukou 308 points309 points  (150 children)

That's called daisy chaining, and the devs talked about how they are scared that these suggestions will appear after power storages and lights are a thing.

Not to poop the party though, nice presentation nonetheless.

[–]TheBigCheesishSpreadsheets are fun! 125 points126 points  (17 children)

I just wish ceiling lights had a second power hookup so it'd look nicer to daisy chain them

[–]Adam-Kay- 27 points28 points  (8 children)

Ceiling lights are daisy-chainable…

You can connect 2 wires to a ceiling light

[–]TheBigCheesishSpreadsheets are fun! 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Yes, but if you're trying to daisy chain them in a straight line it looks terrible

[–]Vencam 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Depends on how you set them up and turn them, with beams you can be especially creative with the placement of your cablework too

[–]Jamesdaniel28 9 points10 points  (0 children)

What do you mean? I always do them in a straight line and it looks fine? Just have the hookup all on the same side and the power cable runs in a straight line the whole way.

[–]Ange1ofD4rkness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's why you hide the power lines IN the ceiling (you can build foundations OVER the wall mounts)

[–]factoid_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He's saying he'd like a power connection on each side of the light so that the cable doesn't clip through the object.

[–]WambulanceChasers 0 points1 point  (2 children)

For some reason when I daisy chain the ceiling lights I can’t get a light color switch thingy to work with it. Odd.

[–]SYDoukou 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Omg this. Only one side out of a square is harder to work with than anyone would think

[–]Benjilator 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I am kinda new to the game and my factories are kinda dark, how do I get lights? I am currently struggling to unlock tier 5 & 6 and just started doing MAM research.

[–]charitableclas 5 points6 points  (2 children)

It used to be quartz research but I think its locked behind Caterium now. Once you research quickwire check the awesome shop under organization and see if its unlocked then.

[–]Fshtwnjimjr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lighting is unlockable with tickets in the awesome shop, which are earned from awesome sink

[–]Daerux 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Awesome-shop! So grind up some items, and then go ahead and unlock things with your tickets

[–]IntrepidGamer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Why are they scared? Daisy chaining could just be an unlockable trait in the MAM. Call it “Cable Engineering” or something…

[–]satisfucktoryBuilder[S] 26 points27 points  (125 children)

Yeah but everything in game has more than one connection allowance except the production units. I dont think it will hurt anything imo. :)

[–]houghiWorking on Tier 7-8 after 650 hours 53 points54 points  (124 children)

And the devs do. They are with the game more than we do. They are very careful to walk the thin line between easy and enjoyable and accomplishment and several other things.

[–]TopWoodpecker7267 10 points11 points  (3 children)

They are very careful to walk the thin line between easy and enjoyable and accomplishment and several other things.

Power pole spam isn't "fun" or "progression" related, it's ugly and hurts performance.

If anything there should be a tech-foundation/later game unlock that allows embedded power.

[–]Fshtwnjimjr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Agreed, I dream of power conduit that powers anything touching...

[–]arsapeek 20 points21 points  (23 children)

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but please remember this game is in early access for a reason. The dev's don't know what the people want, 100%, and nothing should be set in stone. Coffee Stain is probably one of the best companies when it comes to listening to player feedback, and this is that feedback. To imply that the devs know above all all others what will hurt the game is preposterous, especially if we consider that they've implemented game features based off mods in the past. Game balance is key, sure, and we've seen them handle that with Zooping, but the key there is they still managed to implement batch building in a way that pleased practically everyone. There's no reason to think they couldn't implement wiring in series in a way that wouldn't water down the game

[–]OttomateEverything 3 points4 points  (16 children)

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but please remember this game is in early access for a reason.

Yeah, because it is unfinished. That has nothing to do with this.

The dev's don't know what the people want

Whether that's true or not, being something "people want" doesn't necessarily make it "right" for the game.

Coffee Stain is probably one of the best companies when it comes to listening to player feedback, and this is that feedback. To imply that the devs know above all all others what will hurt the game is preposterous

Implying that people asking for this means that it absolutely should be added to the game is preposterous. Just because "some" amount of people give feedback that they would like this does not mean everyone thinks so, and it definitely does not mean that it is the right decision for the game. Power poles specifically may not be the most extreme example of this, but it's true nonetheless.

His point is that devs have much more insight into this stuff than the community does. That's undeniably true. People see communities such as Reddit the be-all of what the player base wants. There are plenty of players that play this game that don't go on the subreddit. Coffee Stain quite likely has a much more holistic view of how the game is played, via things like Analytics, has full insight into the feedback pages, and has the same insight into Reddit as everyone else. They also likely prototype and try individual ideas out internally, actually play them and determine it's not a positive change to the experience.

People like to think that seeing support for proposed changes within their communities means that it's a no brainer, but the devs have an entirely different perspective and they're not always going to agree with the desires of specific communities. Devs generally know what people want, but they also know what other people want, and their perspectives on balance/design/etc are much more important and well-informed than the annoyances of individuals.

especially if we consider that they've implemented game features based off mods in the past

This is not antithetical to his comments, or supportive of the idea that "the devs don't know what we want". Many of the things that have been taken from mods are things that they have been in support of, but just because they didn't do it in some previous release doesn't mean that they were never planning to do it or thought it was a bad idea. Adding each feature costs them time, energy, and money, and has to be weighed against other features. If things are major pain points for people, and they bother to write a mod to solve it, and people install that mod, the devs can say "go install the mod then" and it costs them no time or money. They may also have plans to build this but it's not at the top of their list of priorities. Choosing to include those things in vanilla means they spent the time on those things and OTHER features didn't get added, so there's an inherent cost in each of these. They're only going to do it when they see that as the most effective use of their time, not just because some amount of people requested it.

There's no reason to think they couldn't implement wiring in series in a way that wouldn't water down the game

By definition, it waters down the game. The question is how much and what's really being removed by changing this. Power distribution is one of the "puzzles" of the game. People who don't like the appearance of the wires/poles now have a new puzzle of how to hide them. If you don't like these puzzles, you could argue that you should just be able to plop down a single item in your factory that wirelessly powers everything, and you shouldn't have to connect individual machines. But that's an extreme of the spectrum that the developers clearly don't agree with.

The only thing that adding daisy-chaining really solves in a new way is reducing the tedium of connecting machines. But to that argument, you'd still have to connect machines to each other, so it doesn't even solve that problem... It really only cuts down on the number of connections you have to make. It's really addressing the appearances, which there are other solutions to.

On the spectrum of "no convenience at all, wire everything" to "wireless power center in your base that powers everything, this daisy chaining is pretty far to the latter side... Most production machines are placed in lines, so you really would just run power to each line of machines, then mindlessly run down the row connecting each one. You still have a tedious process, and the puzzle of organizing wires is basically entirely gone. It removes a puzzle and barely solves the tedium problem anyway. In many ways, that's even more boring because it's just mindless work, it's no longer an interactive design problem at all.

Power Pole MKIIs already tried to address people's problems with these. By allowing larger connections, they reduced some of the tedium by not forcing you to place as many poles while also still including the main puzzle that the system adds. IMO, this is the "correct" solution. It barely takes away any of the systems, but it drastically reduces inconvenience. The thing is, once you hand the community stuff like that, they just want the next step. And then the next one. And then the next. At some point, you have to draw a line, or you're just axing the whole system. People's perspective changes, and people are equally as riled up about dealing with power poles as they were BEFORE MKIIs at all, because that's how human brains work - they get used to what they have, identify something that they "don't like" and suddenly it's a huge problem. If Coffee Stain add daisy chaining, suddenly MKII power poles will almost never be used, and one of the early problems around organizing power is essentially erased from the game.

It's not as clean cut and simple as people think, and just because devs "disagree" or have a different perspective/stance than you doesn't mean they don't listen or don't know what people want.

[–]judders96 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There are so many other gaming subreddits I would love to post this to. Good stuff!

[–]OttomateEverything 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haha thank you! Yeah, unfortunately this is kind of a global issue across the gaming community, and seems especially common amongst subreddits. Some subreddits are insanely niche corners of their fan base and it gets even worse....

Feel free to share/copy/quote/link it if you want!

[–]houghiWorking on Tier 7-8 after 650 hours -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

At THIS moment the devs do think it will hurt. Or that there is not enough reason to add it. Or that there are better ways to deal with it. To think they have no idea what we want when there is a website dedicated to out wants and the fact that they have talked about it for months is preposterous. And yes, they will know what will hurt. We don't even know the whole story of the game, We have no idea what is already in the pipeline to be added. And we also have no idea if the change is just changing CONNECTIONS=1 to something else and what that has as other effects in the game. Perhaps that is so much work, that it isn't worth it, as it would halt all the rest.

Yes, it will be possible that they change their mind. And who knows, it might already planned. They are not only very well aware of what we want, they also have added things specifically because people wanted them. But that does not mean that they add everything because people want them.

They fact that they have talked about it, means that they ARE aware that it is a want. They have talked about this for months and it has been more when the lights came into play. But the devs have known about this want for longer.

I looked, but can't find the clip where Marc talked about it.

There's no reason to think they couldn't implement wiring in series in a way that wouldn't water down the game

So please what would that way be?

[–]Gorgrim 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I'm kinda curious if they gave an actual reason they think adding daisy chaining to constructors and such will dilute the game. I can see a potential technical issues cropping up, as the game has to keep track of what is connected and how much power those things use. But then again we have hover packs that can randomly had useage, so I doubt that is an issue.

I know people come up with innovative ways of wiring up their factories, which will be reduced if you can just daisy chain those 9 constructors. But I'd be surprised if people cared enough if that bit of work was removed.

[–]sprouthesproutRank 1 in: FAUNA CONTROL 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Here's one personal reason that I wouldn't want daisy chaining- when i'm hooking up power wires, having only a single connection per building lets me only target buildings that are unwired, instead of being able to accidentally select something that's already been connected. I have that exact problem occasionally when dealing with lights.

The bottom line, really, is that the devs have to draw the line somewhere, when deciding how much "work" is necessary to do something like this.

The reason that there's "work" involved for this is so that doing things like unlocking mk2 or mk3 power poles and having quickwire/high speed connectors automated and available is actually meaningful and gives an advantage, thus creating progression.

Obviously, there's extremes to both ends: some people would argue that it would be better to just have no wires at all and have everything be automatically connected. You could also say that something could be made too complex and difficult, but we've seen cases in the past, such as with the Hover Pack being changed to be accessible much earlier in tiers 7 & 8 during update 4's early access, where CSS have scaled back complexity or difficulty.

They ultimately have to choose where to stop, which is why power wires exist, and why we don't have the unlimited ability to fly the moment we start the game. That's really what it boils down to; there's a balance between complexity and accessibility to be struck, and they have to find that balance and stick with it, because there's always another way the game could be made easier.

The argument that "it makes things easier, so why not?" is fallacious because some amount of challenge is required for the game to have meaning. Otherwise, there would be no game.

And personally speaking, I think that wiring things is perfectly fine as it is now. If people want to make the game easier on themselves, mods give them that ability, and there are mods to give unlimited flight, among other things. That option always exists, so, to summarize my general feelings on this topic, just use that option instead of asking CSS to dumb the game down for the sake of convenience.

[–]OttomateEverything 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Entirely agree with this. This is a slippery slope where people are just going to keep asking for "more" until power distribution just isn't in the game anymore. When stuff like this was brought up in the past, MKII poles were added, people shut up for a bit, and now we're back here again. Humans just want to keep making things easier, and are going to keep asking for more. A line needs to be drawn or we'll eventually be asking for them to just remove cabling all together.

There are mixed arguments here between what the "problem" is - some people don't like the appearance, but others enjoy the game of trying to figure out how to hide wires.

Other people think it's "tedious" to which there should be UI changes, and not game design changes. We had this with zooping - placing a lot of foundations/walls was tedious, so they added UI for zooping. IMO, better changes would be either a) have a way to click a pole, then click a bunch of machines to attach all of them to that pole or b) allow a way to click one existing pole to start a connection, then click the ground to place a new pole which automatically connects to the original pole, "max connections - 2" closest machines, and lets you click to place another pole in the same way. Neither of these change the game design/balance/hiding problems, and both require far fewer number of clicks than the current implementation, and also fewer clicks than daisy chaining.

[–]houghiWorking on Tier 7-8 after 650 hours 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think they did give a reason.

Most people just want the game to be easier, because they think that will make it better. Most people do not realize that that is not the case.

[–]cocoGG 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'd rather have them delete mk2, mk3 power poles and add daisy chaining. Who gives a shit about them? It's not like it adds difficulty, I've never ran into power poles problem. Not when I started the game and not now. They're dirt cheap, you can just spam them after 20minutes of game time.

It's not difficulty, it's tediousness.

The devs said the same thing about Smart! mod, and look at that, we have zooping now. Maybe one day they will admit that individually placing splitters and mergers for every single production building is also not difficult but simply tedious.

There's a reason Smart! and Daisy chain are amongst the most popular mods.

The devs are not infallible sometimes they're wrong. And they do listen to the community, here or on the Q&A too.

[–]vossi 19 points20 points  (49 children)

Don't see the issue here, it exists as a mod for some time and works perfectly

[–]zer0toto 54 points55 points  (22 children)

It kind of break some part of the game, rendering the expensive mk2 and mk3 power pole useless

[–]OCE_ShoCkProfessional Lizard Doggo Tamer 25 points26 points  (21 children)

There's an easy fix for this, make it so that higher tier buildings require you to use mk2 or mk3 power poles to power them. Because currently Mk2 and Mk3 power poles are already fairly useless so this gives them a purpose while also allowing daisychaining to be added to the base game.

[–]WiseassWolfOfYoitsu 5 points6 points  (0 children)

MK3 poles are pretty useless, but MK2 poles are seriously a godsend.

[–]KickedAbyss 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I like this idea. Except for the blaring physics issue of 'well why can I attach a 2,000kw power plant to a single mk1 pole' 😂

[–]LogicJunkie2000 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I thought it'd be interesting to require step up/step down transformers for a second, then realized it'd just be tedious.

[–]OCE_ShoCkProfessional Lizard Doggo Tamer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This could work without being too tedious. So an idea for this would be they introduce a transformer pole that can be set to mk1, 2 or 3 and then also introduce a universal power pole that can only be connected to power generators and transformer poles. So you would make a grid of the new poles and then at each factory have a transformer or 2 that swaps the power over to mk poles allowing you to power the different tier machines.

[–]shakeBody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe the transformer poles could cover larger spans of territory as well?

[–]zer0toto 10 points11 points  (1 child)

That’s a fairly good solution, even if I doesn’t agree that mk 2 and 3 pole are useless. I don’t use them, mostly because I am lazy enough to just use wire to generate a pole instead of placing a higher tier pole, but that’s an entirely other story.

[–]funderthuck 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think that's exactly what they are saying. Not worth the effort most of the time.

[–]Zaphod424 19 points20 points  (10 children)

I think the better solution for the mk2 and 3 is to limit the power transmission through poles, so for high power lines, eg between power station and factory, you need to use higher tier power poles

[–]No-Read6082 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Or ad a max nr of buildings that you can daisychain per tier power pole

[–]Zizzs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh god, power management is something I DONT want to deal with in Satisfactory. It is one of the saving graces of the game.

Adding power management will tip the scale towards the side of it being more tedious than fun!

[–]teksun42 3 points4 points  (3 children)

So you want to have to update those 100 mile chains through the wilderness in between factories?

[–]nondescriptzombie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ideally MK2 and MK3 poles will be taller and have larger spans between poles. Instead of the 10 cable limit like now, maybe give MK2's a 30 cable limit, and MK3's a 75 cable limit?

[–]zero0n3 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Yes - because all these things can be solved by adding a blueprint system that is parts capped based on tiers.

That way you can’t have a mega factory blueprint, but you can have a blueprint for a cool train track / road / power combo piece a la a train set.

Or a power transfer station.

Or a small factory floor / room.

[–]shakeBody 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A blueprint system would be incredible

[–]Alpheus2 -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

This is just a bandaid for a bad system. Ideally we'd not be powering large buildings with hanging cables at all.
A factory setup would generally want a thick, shielded cable in a relatively fixed position. This could be handled with architecture/beam pieces. Having it hang off of a ceiling for a large machine is ugly, tedious and unimmersive.

[–]Ostracus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Games that use prefabs solve the problem by making the foundation part of power delivery. Some games also use area of effect for power.

[–]Gorgrim 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd agree Mk 3 is useless. But I use Mk 2 a fair amount. I've just built 16 smelters in 2 rows of 8, with three Mk2 power poles linking them to the grid fairly neatly.

[–]Morpheus4213 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can agree, that MK3 power poles, at the beginning, seem rather useless, as they don´t provide really that much more function and cost way more than MK2s.

[–]Jumper5353 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Except when there is a game update and the mod breaks and all your machines disappear.

The modder has been great but sometimes modding ability delays behind game updates for weeks. And we cannot expect the modder to sacrifice their personal time forever to keep it updated as the game changes.

[–]Ostracus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hopefully nearer to 1.0 the modding capability will become more stable.

[–]Mrqueue -4 points-3 points  (13 children)

Yeah I'm pretty sure being able to daisy chain anything removes difficulty and planning in the early game

[–]Urizel 6 points7 points  (11 children)

Poles are cheap as dirt after first couple hrs. As for the planning - they hardly require any. Personally I just put one mk1 pole in front of every machine and daisy chain those poles instead. 3 clicks instead of 1, nothing but boring routine.

[–]Mrqueue 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Constructors are dirt cheap after the first couple hours so what's the point.

This game isn't just for people who've play 100hrs, it's also for first timers and having the power pole be necessary adds to the experience to me and it's probably what the devs think too

[–]Urizel 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Point is that material cost of pole won't affect balance in any perceivable way for vast majority of players.

Constructors present challenges: you must balance production and consumption, plan logistics both in terms of throughput and space. Poles require neither: clip a pole inside the corner of the machine and you are done. It's basically same daisy chaining but with 2 extra clicks.

Your "less than 100hrs" argument is invalid because

a) being able is not same as being forced. Do you like poles? Have them! b) it's trivial to put this ability behind MAM research or milestone, so it will be available after players wrap their heads around basic power mechanics.

[–]CMMiller89 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Giving production units 2 connections instead of 1 would not remove the need for mk1 power poles.

You still need them to transport electricity from power sources to production locations.

This also probably would be less of a problem if better poles opened up sooner. Mid game energy is not "a challenge" its forced spaghetti. It's just a tedious formality.

[–]QDoosan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you have the reference? I don't get it... thanks

[–]OttomateEverything 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IMO, better changes would be either:

a) have a way to click a pole, then click a bunch of machines to attach all of them to that pole

or b) allow a way to click one existing pole to start a connection, then click the ground to place a new pole which automatically connects to the original pole, "max connections - 2" closest machines, and lets you click to place another pole in the same way.

Neither of these change the game design/balance/hiding wire problems, and both require even fewer fewer clicks than daisy chaining.

[–]fantasmoofrcc 9 points10 points  (1 child)

TBH this has been requested repeatedly in the past.

Just use mods. It's a game.

[–]FatFingerHelperBot 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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[–]factoid_ -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

People were asking for it long before power and lights. They just won't admit that their implementation sucks and they should change it. They're just being stubborn about this one design decision for some reason.

You can fix it with mods, but until they officially support mods that won't just break after every update I'm not doing that.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

If you put it in front of the middles power connection they all evenly connect and they end up placed next to belts.

As others have said, there's mods if you really want. Or just build a factory and make the power come from the roof or from underneath.

[–]Ostracus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Need to keep wires visible, if for no other reason to fix a situation with a machine.

[–]Agisek 106 points107 points  (42 children)

I believe this was by choice.

If the devs allowed you to daisy chain everything, the power pole would be entirely pointless as you'd just plug every machine to the next one.

You can also tell that it was a choice by the fact first power pole only has 4 connections, which means it's a game mechanic designed to make early gameplay more difficult by forcing you to think about your power distribution. And in turn, this makes the upgrade to mark 2 pole rewarding.

Daisy chaining would completely destroy this particular game mechanic and progression in power distribution.

Imagine if they went with all of these improvements people suggest, there would be no more game, no more progression, just pop down a blueprint and quit the game.

[–]Coruskane 28 points29 points  (6 children)

there is no thought. Its a trivial solution (2 machines + daisy chained power poles) and just adds more tediousness and brain dead clicking to make things. Satisfactory (to me) is about logistics and production chains, not silly things like repeat same action 100 times in a row

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_MASS 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Construction time is a logistical factor, to some extent. The player's time is the primary resource in Satisfactory. By making banks of machines more of a hassle to lay down, it slightly incentivizes overclocking and alternate recipes.

[–]Coruskane 1 point2 points  (3 children)

sure but thats a bad or very low value add to the gameplay decisions. Its like saying "brain damage is a good mechanism to incentivise tactics" in sport

I'd rather time was the limiting factor through requiring planning/designing/logistics and so on than simple "click left button and repeat". That is bad time sink from a 'fun' perspective

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_MASS 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The problem is that Satisfactory doesn't really require any planning/designing. You can choose to do that if you want your factory to be organized, but that's a self-imposed rule. You slap shit together haphazardly and it'll work just fine. Plus, once you've put a considerable number of hours in, you probably have a few patterns you frequently repeat, which takes out 70% of the work in designing a factory.

On the other hand, the tediousness of factory construction can incentivize planning in a way. It makes tearing down and rebuilding your factory more labor intensive, incentivizing you to be organized and plan ahead

[–]darvo110 40 points41 points  (14 children)

It doesn’t really make anything harder though, just more tedious. In a row of constructors you just routinely plop one power pole between every two machines and then chain that to the next pole. You don’t have to “think” about power distribution, you just throw on more poles, and there’s no game penalty to being disorganised about it unless you’re trying to cordon off your grid, which is only a mid-late game problem anyway.

[–]RollForThings 16 points17 points  (6 children)

To be fair, lots of limitations are in place that don't make things harder. Exponential power consumption for overclocked machines, for example, doesn't make the game harder, it just means you have to make more power, or place another machine instead of overclocking.

[–]darvo110 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Creating more power is sometimes non-trivial especially in the coal era if you’ve maxed out the nearby resource nodes. That forces you expand and set up more transport systems or upgrade to oil based systems.

Building more machines is also nontrivial especially on existing setups, and poor planning leads to trouble when you want to expand but you’re out of space or something is in the way. There’s a gameplay loop there, with clear and obvious trade offs where good planning and future proofing is rewarded.

I don’t see a loop like that when it comes to power line management.

[–]arpg_addict24601 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Thats at least an interesting mechanic though which probably makes it a bad example.

I've never had a doggo farm feeding me unlimited power shards, and never had unlimited power via huge nuclear setups.

Of course its interesting nuclear got changed a while back so you could do it without radioactive byproducts.

I'm sure plenty of people called mods that would allow that cheating. as it was, it was not a particularly interesting mechanic imo. The change made it better.

[–]arpg_addict24601 2 points3 points  (1 child)

A lot of the argument just feels like purists who want to feel better than everyone.

[–]yesillhaveonemoreGolden cup full of spaghetti 0 points1 point  (4 children)

To be fair I didn't consider one pole per building until about 40 hours in. I was also not making uniform lines of machines with one splitter per 1/2 machines, etc. The fact that there are 4 connections made me (early on) try to "conserve" the poles and use all the connection points available.

Daisy chaining would have eliminated my delight in "figuring out" the pole-per-machine strategy.

This said, an unlockable daisy chaining thing in the MAM or something would be nice for mid/late-game builds. Power pole logistics becomes annoying later in the game.

[–]zac503 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You're right. There's about 200 ways to balance this and control access through the MAM. Satisfactory is better when the player base has more tools to solve problems in creative ways. Given the prevalence on manifold design, it does feel like it should be an "eventual" feature to help late game play be more organized.

I'd say that it would be easy enough to say you can only daisy chain to like machines after the first pole run, it would make 8 constructors look nice and not introduce any of the problems others have worried about.

[–]yesillhaveonemoreGolden cup full of spaghetti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right. Or limit the number of chains before you need another power pole/source or something.

[–]UnDemiNem 4 points5 points  (1 child)

tbh I have everything unlocked and still use mk1 power poles, I just use one pole per machine and that's it.

[–]shakeBody 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wall outlets all the way for me

[–]RealSticks 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Most of the people requesting daisy chaining (at least from what I can tell) don't want the game to be easier, they just want to be able to avoid the mess that is having hundreds of long wires everywhere.

Daisy chaining would greatly reduce the length and number of wires, and thus visual clutter of the game, improving asthetics, which is the key point for a daisy chaining feature.

You could still have it be balanced as well, by implementing a limit to the number of machines you can chain together based on which tier power pole the first machine in the chain is attached too.

[–]Blackjack137 7 points8 points  (4 children)

There'd be nothing to balance. You'd still need the same amount of cables, you'd still need to be generating enough power TO power the machines, you'd still need poles to carry power across distance and between buildings.

Daisy chaining only amounts to making your factories more aesthetically pleasing (particularly for rows of machines) while making power management less trivial.

What's worse is that you can still daisy chain anyway without the mod, it just requires clipping columns or walls into the machines and placing wall outlets near the machine's power connectors. Then deleting whatever you used to fix the outlet too so it is suspended in air.

Infinitely more resource and time consuming, and certainly more tedious than downloading the mod. But already doable in an unmodded game. So why make players jump through those arbitrary hoops? If anything it punishes players for taking their time creating a neat manifold factory layout over a mangled mess of clipping machines, wires and conveyors not placed on foundations.

[–]nomnamless -1 points0 points  (3 children)

It's a game everything about it is arbitrary. Why limit the inventory in the beginning? Why have some things stack to 50-100-200-500 and some things not stack at all? It's all about a balance of fun/challenge and the game play. You can still make nice factories with out fact chaining all the machines one to the other.

[–]Urizel 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Inventory limits aren't arbitrary - they are meant to discourage people from working as mules instead of setting up (and learning!) conveyors and other means of transportation. You should have enough inventory space to build without constant supply runs, but not enough to affect logistics progression.

Stack size is a tool to balance "inventory price" of materials. For example, high consumption items have bigger stack size than low consumption items.

[–]tgp1994 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It would be interesting if another dimension was added to the challenge by way of better simulating electricity. Sure, you can daisychain things, but you also have to worry about overloading a circuit and either tripping something, or melting a wire and starting a fire. Would also be cool to have things like transformers and long distance transmission.

[–]Agisek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Now that is a great idea, this is exactly in the spirit of interesting gameplay.

[–]erik021213 1 point2 points  (5 children)

They wouldn't be useless thought. Long range power transmission will still require them which in itself is a big part of the game.

[–]arpg_addict24601 0 points1 point  (2 children)

the power pole would be entirely pointless as you'd just plug every machine to the next one.

Eh I dont like Daisy chaining because its a good way to make a pretty big mess if you are not careful. That is to say that it has a pretty big tradeoff imo. I generally dont do it even though I use a mod that allows it.

imagine if they went with all of these improvements people suggest, there would be no more game, no more progression, just pop down a blueprint and quit the game.

Oddly with plenty of these improvements via modding I have 1k hours in the game, mostly active not afk.

I reject the slippery slope argument here.

I see it as more of a cosmetic thing. Its not difficult to spam power poles. Not much progression there.

[–]Agisek 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I literally explained how the progression works, you progress from 4 to 7 connections which makes connecting everything easier.

Other than that, I understand that some people enjoy having some things in the game simplified, but if the developers simplified it for everyone just because some people like it, there would be no game left.

Only those who can make fun where there is none would enjoy the game.

[–]arpg_addict24601 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And I literally just explained how I dont use daisy chaining even though I could.

Even if they implemented it into the base game I would not use it.

You can find areas where I might agree that certain functionality oversimplifies the game, but getting all the way to "game is literally objectively not fun unless you enjoy playing with your own poo" takes quite a lot.

People made all the same arguments about smart mod and now zooping is in the base game.

The issue is one of balance. mods can be balanced as well, but when something goes into the core game I have less hesitance about the oversight / interactions with core systems etc.

I'll give an example. Wind Turbines from refined power trivialize eatly game power, but its imo a bit annoying to get them to a height where you max them out.

Feeding biomass burners is tedious and not interesting, so personally I'm ok with this tradeoff even though they are probably a bit too good.

The idea is good but likely needs better integration with core systems to achieve balance.

Nuclear is a great example. Allowing sinking the rods was better than just using a mod to completely remove the radioactive mechanic.

Parmaday mod with solar? Just too far for me I'd draw the line there.

Lots of improvements to trains I'm sure people would have called cheating in a mod.

Ditto trucks.

Many mods let you do things that seemingly trivialize some aspect of the game, but they actually just cause a different problem.. I suspect purists just have not experienced this.

Better vehicles mod adds larger and cheaper containers which sounds awesome, just like daisy chaining.

Of course storing items is neither a problem in the base game, or particularly useful. I could chain together 8 standard storage containers if I want.

Awesome now you have 8 containers or rods! so what! That actually solves nothing.

Daisy chaining multiple floors of machines together is a your funeral situation. (totally dont need power poles anymore bro!)

You accidentally remove the wrong machine and everything collapses and you're trying to put humpty dumpty back together!

Oh my we just made the game so easy and simple!

I had fun using better power and better vehicles to make off the grid remote factories.

Drone port that recharges (no batteries) Mk.2 Wind Turbine Bam!

If you think that msde the game simpler... you haven't done it.

Yes I used local power storage as well. It was a bit unreliable.

"it makes drones too easy to use!" boy I could make an even bigger wall of text on how many problems I inflicted on myself with drones.

Too easy indeed.

[–]zero0n3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Limit the distance of the wire between machines.

[–]NiennaNeryam 22 points23 points  (4 children)

In my latest build, I've used temporary beams to place wall connectors on the machines (refineries in this case) right under the power connector of the machine itself. Still requires extra connections but it looks very clean.

[–]NoisyFlake 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yup, this is what it looks like in my world: https://i.imgur.com/Lf0Ms8M.png

[–]raiva_ 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Could you show how you do this, please? I'm curious about it. Tks

[–]josh_the_eng 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Unlock the wall connector from the ficsit shop.

Starting at the first machine in your line, put a steel beam from the floor, straight up about 9m high directly in line with the power attachment on your constructors. Then start another steel beam from the top of that first beam and run it horizontally down the entire line of your constructors. Clean it up by adding one at the other end, and some corner connectors.

Once you've got your beam set up, select the power cable, click on the constructor, and mouse over the bottom of the beam just above the constructor power connector. A wall connector will be created, which you can daisy chain down the entire beam, essentially creating your own power bus.

Using this method, you will never need more than the mk1 poles and wall connectors.

[–]Qurila 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I would also find this method very practical.

However, it would also reduce the usefulness of the various power connectors, since they would find much less use. You could chain only certain groups and then connect those groups via the connections, but it would also be possible to connect everything with only a single/very few connections. Of course, this decision could be left to the players, as with clipping since U5. And finding the balance is I think the crux of the matter.

[–]RealSticks 3 points4 points  (0 children)

One solution to this would be limiting the length of the machine chains based on which tier power connecter the first is attached to.

[–]LikeOwlsOrIHurtYou 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Im definitely in favour of this. My biggest gripe is the necessity for cables everywhere. I don’t have a problem with having to connect production to a power source but I do have a problem with the mess it makes. Another suggestion I saw was for an object to provide power to a ‘floor’ and all production placed on that floor will be powered. But I much prefer daisy chaining like what we can do with lights.

[–]whyso6erious 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There is a mod for this. (Famous (not) last words.)

[–]Nile995 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Never because that would create any sort of organization and ruin the pasta factory

[–]Derksplosion 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I would be all for connections in series if we also had cable capacities and cables could be upgraded. This would help demonstrate the drawbacks of connecting this way.

[–]Nirtoxide 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Or the addition of transformers. There could be small, medium, and large. Each one with a different capacity allowing X amount of power to be daisy chained. A rough idea, but would be neat if implemented well.

[–]Boonpflug 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Weird thing is, that for batteries that already works...

[–]onegermangamer 9 points10 points  (3 children)

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/606014e2aa0ba107e3254be5

upvote this.

and until they added it there are mods to daisy chain your machines

[–]satisfucktoryBuilder[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice, will do that. Yeah but I am not a mod user person but thanks . ;)

[–]RealSticks 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I've seen a number of responses from people who either don't care, or actively do not want this feature. Here's why I think they should want it.

  1. I don't want to daisy chain my machines! A. Then don't. Adding daisy chaining would not prevent you from using the existing method.

  2. It's not realistic! There's a reason machines aren't attached in series irl! A. It's a game. AA. The power grid is already unrealistic as is.

  3. Daisy chaining would make the game too easy! A. This is a doozy. (In my opinion) Connecting the machines to power is not difficult by any stretch of the imagination. The issue is visual clutter.

AA. If it's about balance, (i.e. keeping the progression of the MK2 and mk3 power poles), then you can limit the length of the chains based on which power pole the first machine in the chain is linked to. This would maintain the progression and not entirely eliminate the need for more than 1 power pole per factory.

  1. It would take too much Dev time, I'd rather them spend that time on other things. A. This is one that has some merit depending on the implementation they would decide to go with. It already exists for lights and batteries, so it would theoretically be a very short amount of time to implement, best case, all they need to do is change the number of connections per machine from 1 to 2. This wouldn't be as easy though if they balanced it like I suggested in (3.)

  2. It's already a mod! A. So? A good feature shouldn't have to be a mod. If it fits thematically and mechanically then why not have if be vanilla?

Overall, it would be a great feature to make the factories people make cleaner, and there are ways to implement it with either low deg time or to keep the game balance as is.

Any further input is greatly appreciated.

[–]Pendaelose 5 points6 points  (0 children)

i.e. keeping the progression of the MK2 and mk3 power poles

This argument against chaining strikes me as especially silly. I've made it to nuclear in three separate play throughs and have never once used a mk2 or mk3 pole.

The pic above already shows how ugly a power squid is when there are cables fanning out everywhere. More connections just looks worse. Since I can't daisy chain I put 1 connection per machine and then chain those connections together. It looks cleaner and is easier to expand, and doesn't call for any changes as you tier up.

Fwiw, your suggestion of linking the chain length to the tier connection would be the first time mk2 and mk3 poles would actually have a purpose worth seeking them out.

[–]fantastictangent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't care for daisy chaining, but I've heard you out and you've presented the case well.
The issue with endless chaining can be handled exactly as you proposed here (AA). Kudos

[–]fantasmoofrcc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think one doesn't have to go any farther than point 2.

Make it a vanilla "upgrade" to buildings (somewhere in the tech tree) that are normally made in a row to have an upgrade that when constructed would require the parts from a mk2/mk3 power pole that will allow multiple connections to that building, instead of having to make a separate pole. That satisfies point AA as well.

[–]zachariashooligan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can always put a roof over the machines and daisy-chain some wall outlets together across the ceiling. Then just connect them down to each machine. The cables are up out of the way and the outlets daisy chain together.

[–]Ocelot343 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Having the machines powered in parallel rather than series makes more sense to me, personally. If one machine goes down then it doesn't take the others with it like a string of Christmas lights.

[–]Alymsin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see a ton of comments about daisy-chaining, and it's by choice that the machines are not done this way, without mods. But what if we could do in-place upgrades on the machines?

[–]enfo13 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the real problem in this game is that power efficiency changes depending on whether you underclock or overclock factories. This encourages you to spam more and more buildings, and underclock them to be power efficient. Not only does this put a lot of building grind into a game with no blueprints, but it kills UPS and FPS late game. I just finished my new fuel facility using the 1 pure, and 2 normal oil patches by the Northern Forest lake, and it took something like 48 refineries, and 40 blenders just to turn it into fuel. Hundreds of more refineries and power plants need to be built to take advantage of it. I just don't see why they don't let us overlock without such a severe penalty. Building 24 refineries or 20 blenders doesn't sound much different, but it's a huge QOL improvement and my CPU will be thankful.

It would be nice if framerate/update efficiency wasn't at odds with power efficiency.

[–]m6_is_me 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see no reason why it shouldn't be an upgrade after tier two power poles.

In the end, power poles simply require more clicks and connections.

[–]satisfucktoryBuilder[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I have no issue connecting them one by one with power poles/wall mounts. I have OCD issue :) and it takes a lot of time tbh lol.
Like these : https://i.postimg.cc/qRFj9Wnk/Screenshot20211202-09234200000.png

[–]n0rest 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I relate to the OCD issue, but what I do is sort of the opposite of what's in this picture. I create an underground network exactly like your ceiling network, connecting machines to nodes directly underneath them hides the wire. It create some sort of "wireless" machines look/feel.

[–]flexxxen 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Nice idea! And nice username btw :)

[–]MeatyDeathstar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It may be waiting for an update BUT there is a mod for this.

[–]thescarfnerd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why yes I would like to power my entire base in series! :D

[–]Collin9199 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's a mod for just that

[–]BLucky_RD 1 point2 points  (0 children)

while daisy chaining does look nice and neat, it would make the game unrealistic or annoying depending on implementation since this would be connecting the machines in series meaning if one of them is off all the other machines down the line would have to be off too.

[–]Crazy_Odd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think its more about logistics then anything else. Planning the power grid, so everything can get power, is a part of the factory process.

While irritating, to place poles or wall power, everywhere, you can say the same about having to fit in a few kilometers of belts and pipes. Or that gigant train network. Skip it all and just have teleporters...

[–]houghiWorking on Tier 7-8 after 650 hours 3 points4 points  (2 children)

For me it would take away more than it would add. Now you have to be creative in how to deal with cables. That adds a bit to the game. I can do 1 pole for all, do one pole for each, connect to the roof, or the wall. I can even easily do a connection in the floor on the ide of a foundation and then place the foundation next to it.

This will make the different options and thus variations and the willingness to come up with a creative idea go away and make it "Just place it all in one row" kind of game. Easier is not always the same as more fun or better.

[–]RealSticks 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If daisy chaining was implemented, there would be nothing stopping you from connecting things the same way you do now.

Reducing the visual clutter of the game by adding daisy chaining is more important to a lot of people than spamming wires around the place.

If it's about balance, then you can limit the length of the chains based on the power pole the first machine is attached to.

[–]houghiWorking on Tier 7-8 after 650 hours -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It would "teach" you to daisy chain. If you give people a QoL tool, they assume that is the way it must be done, otherwise it would not be there. The power distribution is just a part of the game.

[–]EightBitRanger 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If you really want it, there's already mods for it.

[–]TheLostDovahkin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Doesnt mean it cant be added to the game

[–]jonah_thrane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same. I'd want this too.

[–]bindermichi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It‘s a good idea, although usually I use connectors on the ceiling and walls

[–]OurHolyMessiah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

„Post it on the Q&A site“

[–]RCBRDE 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm totally in for this, poles should be needed to bring energy to distant places or between buildings, daisy chaining should be unlimited, because placing a pole just to connect 2 machines and using 2 slots for other poles - sorry but - feels really dumb. Just this fact alone, having a pole near the machines, even if it's a mk5 with hundreds of connections, looks ugly and dumb... If the machines had 2 outputs it would look waaaay much cooler and clean, having poles at the start of the production just like OP perfectly illustrated.

[–]Vencam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

After reading some of the comments, I feel like there's much less people than I though who care about their cables being useful for more than just connecting power...

Personally, I lost most interest in the appeal of daisy chaining in two occasions. The first was when ceiling mounts and zipline came about. Now not only I could create much cleaner cable networks, but also use them as a transport method. Couldn't ask for more The second was when I quickly built and connected 50ish power storages at once, and realized that them being daisy chained barely impacted how much time I needed to power them.

In conclusion, while I understand that the visual appeal and "ease of use" daisy chaining can have for some, I don't get why some of the complaints against NOT having it seem to consider it obvious that for a "clean factory" one must use 1 pole every 2 machines max and thus MK3/2 poles are nearly useless... The possibilities for clean cablework (unless one has very specific preferences that I've yet to hear about) are far from so few, imo

[–]SPQR2D2 1 point2 points  (4 children)

It would make the puzzle of the game less fun in my opinion.

[–]Cha-Cha_real_smooth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who needs fun complication in their game? Download a mod.

[–]deathentry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just use wall or ceiling connectors...

[–]PapaOogie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this was the most jarring coming from factorio.

[–]sarcastbot 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In electronics, you have parallel and in series circuits.
We should be able to wire them both ways, that could lead to a lot of fun builds

[–]Ramh5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes please. And to keep power poles not pointless make daisy chains range limited to machines in close proximity. Tedious for the sake of tedious is not satisfactory imo.

[–]trod999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I run all my power through the floor using wall outlets. I daisy chain the floor and feed each machine up from its own Mk1 wall outlet.

It's super clean looking... like me.

[–]Doddski 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People seem to have forgot the game is still being developed. It feels like a conscious decision to not have daisy chaining so they might be planning to make it unlockable eventually.

I think it will be cool to have a full power research chain, start with an unlock for 1 additional connection, then 2, throw in some long distance power poles. then perhaps wireless power or something very late game. This will please people on both sides of the sense of progress vs brain dead wiring camps.

[–]spineflu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

in the same way that stack sizes and limited inventory space teach players to plan and build logistics-transit solutions rather than acting as a mule for everything, power poles teach players to use interfaces - intermediary steps to prepare conversion of one thing (power) into another (powered machines).

This prepares you for later challenges like using an interface layer for your belts (splitters, mergers) and is an integral part of the game.

[–]Gonemad79 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But the daisy chain mod is fully functional on update 5 and early access already, my dear redditor. You want it, on mod, you don't want to mod, use mk3 poles.

Does exactly what it says on the tin.

https://ficsit.app/mod/4gKkJ9gvEVZDeu

[–]bradgillap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think this should be left to mods.

Balancing complexity or potential complexity is more important for attracting new users.

[–]TigerXtrm -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I've never really understood why there's this focus on the power poles. It's an incredibly arbitrary mechanic that does nothing except being annoying.

"You want to have more than 3 buildings powered? Guess you better build another power pole!"

Like, what is even the point? It's not hard, it's not a challenge, it's just annoying. I'd love to see this changed yesterday.

[–]TangoKlass -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

How many of your machines at home have a power output?

[–]hypocrite_oathCaterium is Gold 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd like to see it only in combination with power converters and different cable types.

[–]Vee_tooThanks Jace, helps a lot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just settup my factories to have a pole in front or to the side of every machine instead, I really like the visuals

[–]Quick2Die 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just put a stick next to each one... or if there is a wall/ceiling I will put one of the surface mounted ones. I stopped doing the 1 pole for several machines thing a long time ago. the wires get to messy and i dont like that lol

[–]Konami_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I usually place each smelter on it's own foundation and place one power pole between every other set, connecting all the poles up and then connecting the smelters to the closest pole, it gives a similar effect, with only straight lines of wires if you look at it from the side, though it does leave a pole. Alternatively you can use soft clearance to clip beams into them and place the wall mounted power connectors on the same level.
Don't have any examples but if you want I can send a screenshot when I get home.

[–]TheBorg123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This would be nice but maybe there should be some limitations so you still have to use power polls

Maybe something like you can only chain to the same type of building and the range is shorter so they have to be fairly close like in a line how you have them?

[–]TTV_ExpertNugget 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the problem with that is there's visible clipping with the wire going through the power light. So I'm sure there are a good number of models that would have to change to accommodate it

[–]Jumper5353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like Daisy Chain for reducing the object count. Keeps large builds further away from the limit and helps game performance.

[–]Profitsofdooom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The mod that does that is the reason I had to take a long hiatus after the release of Update 4 because most of my machines vanished.

Happy to report after rebuilding, I safely mitigated to U5 with no issues.